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Acree AC Diagnosed no "freon" and abad coil... again - seems to be the only thing they diagnose Tampa, Florida
On 8/13/08 I first contacted the company. At that time, a the problem with the non-cooling AC unit was a leak allowing a drop in refrigerant level. The refrigerant was replaced and a recommendation of "set-up for a recheck and possible leak
search Sept 3 bet 3-5pm" was made. In Sept 3, 2008 it was determined that the coil was leaking and that an electronic board needed replacement. The original unit was 6 years old and it seemed to make sense to get a brand new unit vs. sinking $1500-1600 into the old one that might need repairs down the road. a new unit was installed by Acree.
Fast forward to late March, when I notice that the air conditioning unit is not cooling. I also discovered around April 1-2 a "plinking sound" that I am able to trace down to being small pieces of ice dropping to the floor of the large square empty area right behind the air filter. I called Acree, a technician came out. I mentioned problem AND the small ice pieces to the technician and show him where I saw them fall. He feels around the pipes and ducts coming out of the indoor portion of the
AC then goes outside to test the outdoor portion. I did not watch him do this. When he returns inside he says that I am *completely* out of refrigerant (which he kept calling by Dupont's brand name Freon) and that the coil was leaking. Repairs, he said, would involve replacing the coil (part under warranty) at a labor cost of $636, refilling the "Freon" at $252 and searching for the leak at $132. I thought it very odd that a 3 1/2 year unit would be failing this soon. Part of his
response to that was that I had not been maintaining the unit properly and that a problem would have been discovered sooner had I done so, before all the "Freon" had leaked out.
I thought it odd that twice, Acree technicians had diagnosed the same exact problem: a leak that allowed loss of refrigerant, something that, by all that I have read by a variety of sources (other AC repair companies, installers and techs) is not a common occurrence.
I sought a second opinion. I told him what the previous diagnosis was. The technician from a second company, a project manager actually (who was near my address) was able to come by and he did several things: first, he took off the panels over the air handler and coil from the inside unit, something that the Acree technician never did. He checked
manually for leaks, had me run my hands over the coils: here was no oil anywhere. Then we went downstairs and he wondered if someone may have manually leaked out the refrigerant. He showed me the valves, and how they operate just like the valves on a tire. He then tested the outside unit and showed me the gauges showing that I had plenty of refrigerant!
He explained the significance of both gauges. Thinking something might have been missed, he moved as much of the refrigerant as possible to the outside unit, back filled the lines with nitrogen went upstairs to check for leaks on the coil - he explained that we would know if a leak was there if we could hear the nitrogen escaping and, furthermore, if an area was suspicious, we used soapy water and looked for air bubble formation. No leaks! Next, he thought the problem might be a narrowing in the orifice in the discharge line to the evaporator. To test for this, he explained he could replace the part but that some refrigerant would be lost in the process. I asked for the cost, a fraction of the $1020 quoted by the Acree tech (for services I didn't need), and gave the go ahead. The part was replaced, then the refrigerant levels were replaced to the needed operating levels and the unit was turned back on:
the air from the vents was cool again. As I sit typing this complaint, the indoor temperature has dropped from 86F to 80F in 2 1/2 hrs from the tech's departure. Before, the unit could not cool below 83F even at night.
The unit installed by Acree in 2008 runs on R22 coolant. Production of this refrigerant is being discontinued and as a result the price of its replacement is very high due to supply and demand principles. I have to wonder how many other calls to Acree Air Conditioning for a non-functional AC end up being determined to be that fairly uncommon event of "completely out of refrigerant" and faulty coil, given they can rack up between $800-$1100 for taking care of the problem! I can't
determine that the diagnosis given to me in 2008 was correct: I will always wonder if I was swindled into buying a new AC unit back then.
Regardless of the past, it is very clear that for *this* visit, the diagnosis and proposed solution were both wrong.
When I contacted the BBB with a complaint, here is the defensive response I got (pasted from their letter - all the typos, bad spelling and grammar belong to the author - who did not sign the response)
"We did in fact install a unit in 2008. Air conditioners, like cars, need anual maintenance. The client has not done maintenance to our knowledge. 4 years later they called with "no cool." We found the unit "low on freon" not out. We wrote on the invoice that the cleint signed that it was "low" We further wrote the operating pressures on the system. Based oin the test datat taken, the diagnosis was accutrate. We offered to do a leak check for $132 to determine where the leak was.
The leak check was declined. We gave a "worst case" scenario estimate if a coil was bad, we did not sat for a fact what was wrong because we were not permitted to furthur diagnose. The repair could have been as low as $252.
additonally, no matter how much nitrogen is put in a unit, if a leak is small you would NEVER here it and no reputable repair person would EVER make such a statement. To correctly leak check, you use a electronic leak detector and search for the leak.
We check and double check all coil leaks. First, when it is determined (which this client did not let us do.) Upon determination of a leak, we mark the coil with orange paint and photograph it. When we arrive to replace the coil, we recheck. Once the coil is replaced, we send it to the manufacturer who test it as well. If it doenst leak, we have to pay for the coil as it is a warranty part that wasnt bad. We have never returned a part in 40 years that was found not to be defective.
Additonally, we have met other compnaies out at homes where we said there was a leak and were told we were wrong over 60 differtent times and have only been provien wrong 1 time. In closing, I repeat that we never told her it was out and we did not condemn any parts. She signed the invoice that detailed the conversation."
I have a copy of the invoice - it does not have a transcript of a "detailed conversation" - during the visit, when I told the technician that I thought that the odds would be very low against the same problems being found again (leak and bad coil) he said it was "ironic" (clearly he did not understand the meaning of the word). He also, later on, told me I had "hurt his feelings" (I forgot the reason why - it was so childish a response I did not see what any further discourse would
achieve.)
This company is not interested in its customer's best interests. Stay away from them! I have since spoken with 2 other people with similar experiences with Acree, and I have contacted the FL Dept of Consumer Affairs with a complaint since they are blowing off the BBB, which really does not have any true ability to bring faulty companies to task and bad companies continue their practices with impunity.
4 Updates & Rebuttals
Bitty
Tampa,Florida,
United States of America
Last thing Acree has ever offered has been the truth
#5Author of original report
Fri, May 25, 2012
I've already experienced Acree's idea of the truth: like not mentioning when you installed the replacement AC unit the truth about R-22 being a refrigerant that was known in 2008 to be in the process of being phased out in the coming years) so I could select a different unit than the one suggested by Acree (that, yes, uses R-22). Or having the technician tell me one thing, write the very same thing on the invoice only to overwrite it to reflect something less than what I was told (and I have the invoice in hand to back up this fact).
Acree is interested in the truth? Really? And now you are suggesting a showdown at my home between you, a company rep that you will call in (yeah, that will be a really impartial person that you will get to bring in yourself), and the actually transparent AC repair person that I called in for a second opinion... wait, strike that, my knight in shinning armor that made me flutter and swoon as he got my AC to work. Hahaha!, now, that's really funny, I mean, really, get on Jay Leno's show before you miss your chance at your 15 min. of fame. Who knew that the company's president fancies himself a comedian?
Anything else coming out of your side will be pointedly ignored. I am not a fool - I have come across 1 person at work and 2 friends of friends who also have experienced problems with the quality of service that Acree provides. Not interested in any offers you make at this point. My last words about this episode: Buyer beware!
Jack
Tampa,Florida,
U.S.A.
Acree is still willing to prove our diagnosis is correct...we'll even bring the manufacturer along with us to validate our findings
#5REBUTTAL Owner of company
Wed, May 23, 2012
As a consumer, if I received two differing opinions on a diagnosis, I would want to know who is telling me the truth. I mean, isn't that really the point of this forum, to protect consumers from people who mis diagnose or lie when making a diagnosis. What better way to find out who is telling the truth, than a meeting as we have suggested.
We stand behind our diagnosis and remain more than willing to prove our diagnosis is correct. We are even willing to go as far as to have the manufacturer of the product send a representative to the meeting to give thier opinion as well.
We are more than confident that this meeting would clear our name by proving that the leak exists.
Our offer stands should you decide you really want to know who is telling you the truth.
Bitty
Tampa,Florida,
United States of America
45 yrs in business only means you are good at being in business, not necessarily at being good at what you do
#5Author of original report
Thu, May 10, 2012
I have a copy of the Acree invoice in my hand, and it is very easy to see where the "technician" wrote "Found System out of Freon" but then overwrote "Low on" over the words out and on. So he said one thing and wrote something else: likely staff has been instructed never to put certain things or use certain words in writing. I was here and I know what the technician told me. There is a limit to what can be written in most of the client satisfaction sites and I cannot detail all the checks that the "night in shining armor" did to verify the system's integrity. By the way, that is a very condescending and patronizing phrase as it is applied in reference to damsels in distress and shows what little respect the owner of Acree has toward female customers - we, of course, could not possibly know anything about things mechanical, and make poor choices based on emotional weakness and need someone with a Y chromosome to bail us out - even though my father worked on industrial boilers, heating and cooling equipment for a living and I did pay attention to what he taught me. I'll take my "knight in shining armor" any day over the Acree technician who spent about 20-25 minutes to determine that I had a leaking coil while my "shining armor knight" spent a total of 90 minutes methodically eliminating possible causes (and showing me his findings at every step). One other thing that really showed me what Acree is all about - they installed a unit that uses a refrigerant that, at the time of the installation (2008), was known to be on its way to be phased out, meaning production would be stopped completely (R-22). It will be available for some time because R-22 must be recovered and recycled during servicing or replacement of existing equipment that requires its use, but guess what has happened and will co ntinue to happen to the cost of R-22 should you need to recharge a system? - it has gone up!!! So regardless of availability, it is more expensive to replace. What do you do with your existing inventory of new equipment that uses R-22... well, you sell it to customers without telling them of the impending change! Thank you, knight in shining armor, for informing me of this and other things that I was never told by Acree in 2008.
I'll pass on the Acree offer: fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me. I don't want anyone from your company anywhere near my home. I'll chalk up the cost of the "diagnostic fee" to an education in what Acree is all about, and I'll keep telling others to seek AC help elsewhere.
Jack
Tampa,Florida,
U.S.A.
We stand behind our work 100%
#5REBUTTAL Owner of company
Thu, May 10, 2012
As the owner of the company, we stand behind our work 100%. The devices we use to locate leaks are of the highest quality. We have them checked annually for accuracy. The only less fail able means of leak detection is inserting dye into the system and allowing it to operate. When the refrigerant leaks out, so does the dye which is then visible by a UV light.
Additionally, any research on the internet will show the unusual coil leak issues that our plaguing the air conditioning industry for the past few years. They are so bad that in some cases, the manufacturers are assisting homeowners by paying the labor for them.
We have been in business for over 45 years. I cannot tell you how many times the "knight in shining armor" rides in to save the day and tells a client that the leak doesn't exist, only to be there to "rape and pillage" when the compressor fails due to the damage done by the leak they never repaired.
When we run into these cases, and when the client choses to contact us looking for a resolution, we offer the same thing. I will have one of our managers meet the other company at the home and we will prove our diagnosis. If we cannot prove the existence of a leak, then we will pay all the expenses incurred by the homeowner up until that point as a result of the misdiagnosis. In 55 meetings with other companies, we were found to be mistaken only 1 time, which was a failure of the leak detector.
We make that offer to this client as well. We will meet the "project manager" and prove the existence of the leak.
We have a written policy about mis diagnosis and lying to clients and I can assure you that if our tech says there is a leak, there is one and we can and given the opportunity, will prove it.