Apotheis - MyWebStars - Michelle extortion, product not delivered, no attempt to negotiate, con, website, developer, apotheis, mywebstars, ebay, elance, not trustworthy, abuse ripoff Midland Texas
Here is the summary, you can read below for the whole story if you want details. In short, I was billed for work which I never approved to be completed in the first place, and then was extorted to get the final website files. They demanded that I pay more and more money before they released the website files.
I might also mention that this is not the first web development company I have dealt with. In fact, I have dealt with somewhere around 5-6 other firms in my career with no problems.
* Quick Note: Have you noticed how there is nothing but raving reviews about Apotheis Internet/MyWebStars? Seem too good to be true? Here is why:
Before you start a job with them, they make you agree to give them perfect feedback. They say this is how they can offer such low prices.
It seems to me that you should be able to give them a rating on par with the quality of work/service they provided. Don't fall for this.
What Happened:
2) My website design project was progressing smoothly until last a few days ago when I received a notification that I had to re-charge my account beyond the original $960 payment I made with the provider.
This normally wouldn't be a problem, even though I wasn't sure why they wanted me to do this. Perhaps it was because they were going to go over the budget or because they already had.
After trying to clarify the situation, I discovered that the project manager wanted me to pay for work (a balance) that had already been completed and/or was continuing to be completed without me ever having given permission to continue.
It was the old bum windshield washing trick. The bum comes starts washing your windshield without telling you he's charging. Then, when he demands payment and you refuse, he holds a knife to your throat. That is pretty much what happened next.
It was at this time I learned that I had an unpaid balance due. Apotheis bills work hourly, and this is OK. I did agree to being billed hourly, but *never* gave permission to continue additional work without payment and without notifying me first.
The project manager Assumed that I wanted the work to be completed and proceeded to spend my money for me (money I hadn't paid them yet).
At this point, I was made an offer by the project manager (Michelle) that stated if I paid before she went offline, the work would be finished and completed. If I didn't pay before she left, I was out of luck.
This was starting to feel like a bad situation to me. I clearly didn't know what was going on and attempted to gain clarification. An excel sheet was sent that had the un-approved hours they had billed me for shown.
Soon I would learn that I would not be able to receive the deliverables and source files without first paying a large sum of money. I had missed their 'offer' to pay them $500 earlier.
Now they wanted even more. If I didn't pay, they would give me a version of the website from several weeks ago and not include the source files or finish the work. Hardly the deliverables that had been originally specified in the project specs.
We were clearly over the liens of extortion from my point of view.
I missed the original payment deadline (to receive their 'special offer'). Hours later I paid anyway out of good faith figuring that Apotheis would understand and continue finish off as offered. They did not. So now I was out $590 over budget and had still not received the current version of the site nor the source files (which I would need to finish the job on my own).
After all of this payment, they sent an old version of the site without flash files wrapped up in a ZIP file. This was clearly not to spec.
I thought that at the very least since I had 'settled my balance', the site would be uploaded and I could receive the Flash files and that it would be posted to my server. At least it would be over. I was wrong.
To my further injury, I was notified that I still owed another $213, even after my account was apparently 'settled'. This overage was in blatant violation of my previous request to stop work and not bill me again for further work.
This was also the first time I had heard about this extra charge.
They also stated that I had not performed' my end of the bargain, even after I had paid them everything they asked, albeit an hour or two after their deadline.
To add insult to injury, they state that I was never asked to pay for deliverables I did not order. In fact, I was never notified that I was ordering additional deliverables, and I never gave permission for continued billing before I was billed.
The Project Manager, Michelle also stated that I was not forced to pay for any deliverables. This is true. Instead of being physically forced, I was extorted. If I did not pay a total sum of around $803 over the original $960 (which I did pay) then I would not get the full deliverables as posted on the website at that point in time.
After I paid the extra $213, the semi-finished deliverables were posted to my server, however it was done sloppily and not put in the correct spot.
The project originally specified that it had to be completed with a CMS built-in as well (content management system which would allow me to update the content of the website myself).
They did not install the CMS. Figuratively speaking, they left a bag of dog poop smeared at my front door and left me to sort it out for myself even after I met their demands for payment.
Thus, the job was not even completed to spec. I paid them $803 extra to settle my balances and I was ripped-off anyway. If they had finished the work or admitted wrongdoing, I would not have written this report and would not be smearing their name all over the Internet.
I would file a lawsuite, however they do not provide a physical mailing address. I believe that this may be because they all work from home and they don't want anyone mailing them anything, especially lawsuites.
** Conclusion:
I feel like I was extorted in order to receive the final website project and have it posted on my server.
I paid $803 and finally got my half-finished deliverables after this whole mess (CMS still not installed). I don't feel that I should have been responsible for paying this additional $803. Nothing in their Terms of Service lead me to believe anything like this this would happen.
The way they handled my project was fine at first, but turned into an unethical, even illegal mess after it was all said and done with. I feel I've been raped.
http://www.apotheis.com
Unsatisfied Customer
Honolulu, Washington
U.S.A.
8 Updates & Rebuttals
Apotheis
Midland,Texas,
U.S.A.
Aaron Lovelace - WebEdCenter - Web Ed Center - ElevatedInternet libel continued.
#9UPDATE Employee
Mon, February 05, 2007
We are pleased to learn that client will not be posting additional libel and further damaging our business.
As with our previous replies, each issue client has raised is specifically and directly addressed below.
1) Client purchased 80hrs of our time. Client did not purchase 80hrs of our time, one 'Free Pass' for additional production with major design changes that ~doubled total project hours and the right to libel us here at this website.
Client was completely aware of the budget at the time feedback was posted and purchased hours expended. It was very clearly agreed with client that feedback would be requested when purchased hours were expended. Client feedback was requested by us and posted by client without hesitation or protest.
Here is our agreement with client: "Once we have delivered our agreed hours, we will request, and expect, Perfect 5 Feedback be posted."
Here is the feedback that was posted by client: "Great work, very fast response times!"
Adherence to cost - Perfect 5.0, Quality of work - Perfect 5.0, Responsiveness - Perfect 5.0, Professionalism - Perfect 5.0, Subject matter expertise - Perfect 5.0, Adherence to schedule - Perfect 5.0
Please note client's rating of 'Adherence to cost', Perfect 5.0. As well, from a previous post in this same thread, in client's own words, At that point in time, everthing [sic] was on budget as well.
2) Client wanted the additional deliverables that we produced beyond the original 80hrs purchased. Client paid for those deliverables and our time required to produce those additional deliverables. Client then came to this site and posted libel and damaging our business.
3) Client has libeled us at this website. Client has damaged us with this libel. Client has continued to damage us with follow-up posts. Client has now stated there will be no additional posts - we hope this is the truth.
1% of our client's give us this kind of trouble. It is simply part of this business. Not all our clients work with us in an honest and truthful manner.
Apotheis myWEBSTARS
Note to Prospective Clients:
We have prepared a brief on this incident and will share it with you. Contact us direct at our website for details.
Disclaimer:
We do no accept the State of Arizona as exclusive jurisdiction for any reason whatsoever.
Aaron
Honolulu,Hawaii,
U.S.A.
Still not addressing the issue...
#9Author of original report
Mon, January 29, 2007
Apotheis states: "Client is taking the position the hours required to produce the project would remain the same after client provided a major change in design direction which ~doubled required hours."
I am in no way taking this position. Apotheis has failed to understand my position from the very beginning despite my numerous attempts to make it clear to them. I do believe that more work = more $.
Here is my concern again, which has yet to be addressed:
I was **not notified** that the extra work had taken more hours than those I had already purchased until **after** the work had already been performed and presented.
This is my issue. I think I am justified in being upset about this.
This is my last post on this matter. Potential customers: decide for yourself, but be careful and request that Apotheis notify you if extra expenses will be incurred before finishing.
The last thing you want is to be told that the final project took more hours than you had purchased AFTER the project has been completed, and that you will owe more money to have it delivered.
Apotheis
Midland,Texas,
U.S.A.
Libel of Aaron Lovelace / WebEdCenter / ElevatedInternet / et al
#9UPDATE Employee
Mon, January 29, 2007
Our agreement with client was very clear that we would request feedback be left when their purchased hours were expended. We requested feedback be posted and without hesitation or protest, Perfect 5Star Feedback was posted by client and in client's own words
At that point in time, everthing [sic] was on budget as well.
Yet, client claims they had no knowledge of the project's budget - an untenable position.
Our policies are clearly outlined in the FAQ and Terms at our site. Most notably, we provide a breakdown of hours when it is requested by client, not before. The reasoning for this policy is simple; the vast majority of our clients prefer tangible deliverables to administrative expenses - more value for less money.
Client is taking the position the hours required to produce the project would remain the same after client provided a major change in design direction which ~doubled required hours. Based on the fact client clearly understood this was not a fixed-price project, client had purchased hours of our time and client posted Perfect 5Star Feedback for this project. This is an untenable position.
This client's use of our absolute satisfaction' standard is a common fallback position for the very few clients who do not deal with us from a place of integrity, honesty and credibility. Clients who expect free service will not be absolutely satisfied'. Apotheis is a business not a charity.
Every post at this site by client, lacking a full retraction of client's libel, increases our damages. We will neither use this site as a forum to discuss this client's libelous claims nor as some type of mediation channel, as client appears to have attempted with this most recent post.
1% of our client's give us this kind of trouble. It is simply part of this business. Not all our clients work with us in an honest and truthful manner.
Apotheis myWEBSTARS
Note to Prospective Clients:
We have prepared a brief on this incident and will share it with you. Contact us direct at our website for details.
Disclaimer:
We do no accept the State of Arizona as exclusive jurisdiction for any reason whatsoever.
Aaron
Honolulu,Hawaii,
U.S.A.
I just like every other customer of any service expect to be informed before my purchased services expire
#9Author of original report
Tue, January 23, 2007
The mentioned feedback was left. I do not deny this fact. I left it because at the time that I was asked to leave it, I was happy with the way things were going. The incidents that I wrote this report about happened after I left the feedback. From the beginning, it looked like Apotheis was an excellent company and I had no reason to believe otherwise. At that point in time, everthing was on budget as well.
I have no issue with Apotheis charging an hourly rate as opposed to a fixed price per project. I just like every other customer of any service expect to be informed before my purchased services expire, and before work is continued.
At the time I requested the 2nd version of the website, I was not notified clearly that there would be an extra charge to complete the work. This is my main problem. Only after the work was completed was I notified that I would need to pay more to receive it.
I may be the first person this has happened to, in which case I think that Apotheis has a great record of overall customer service. If you are thinking about doing business with Apotheis/MyWebStars, they are probably a fine company. For all I know, this may be the first time this has ever happened.
The only reason I am posting here is because I feel that these issues were not handled professionally or fairly when I brought it up with the company. I do not feel like my "absolute satisfaction" was all that mattered.
I would be satisfied if Apotheis assured me and everyone that sees this message that in the future, they will inform their clients when a request for updates will run over their alotted hours before continuing with it, or at the very least, tell them a few hours before the time runs up.
It would also be nice if they had some way of showing clients how many hours have been used on a project before just saying that their time is up.
I think this is a fair request.
Aaron
Honolulu,Hawaii,
U.S.A.
I just like every other customer of any service expect to be informed before my purchased services expire
#9Author of original report
Tue, January 23, 2007
The mentioned feedback was left. I do not deny this fact. I left it because at the time that I was asked to leave it, I was happy with the way things were going. The incidents that I wrote this report about happened after I left the feedback. From the beginning, it looked like Apotheis was an excellent company and I had no reason to believe otherwise. At that point in time, everthing was on budget as well.
I have no issue with Apotheis charging an hourly rate as opposed to a fixed price per project. I just like every other customer of any service expect to be informed before my purchased services expire, and before work is continued.
At the time I requested the 2nd version of the website, I was not notified clearly that there would be an extra charge to complete the work. This is my main problem. Only after the work was completed was I notified that I would need to pay more to receive it.
I may be the first person this has happened to, in which case I think that Apotheis has a great record of overall customer service. If you are thinking about doing business with Apotheis/MyWebStars, they are probably a fine company. For all I know, this may be the first time this has ever happened.
The only reason I am posting here is because I feel that these issues were not handled professionally or fairly when I brought it up with the company. I do not feel like my "absolute satisfaction" was all that mattered.
I would be satisfied if Apotheis assured me and everyone that sees this message that in the future, they will inform their clients when a request for updates will run over their alotted hours before continuing with it, or at the very least, tell them a few hours before the time runs up.
It would also be nice if they had some way of showing clients how many hours have been used on a project before just saying that their time is up.
I think this is a fair request.
Aaron
Honolulu,Hawaii,
U.S.A.
I just like every other customer of any service expect to be informed before my purchased services expire
#9Author of original report
Tue, January 23, 2007
The mentioned feedback was left. I do not deny this fact. I left it because at the time that I was asked to leave it, I was happy with the way things were going. The incidents that I wrote this report about happened after I left the feedback. From the beginning, it looked like Apotheis was an excellent company and I had no reason to believe otherwise. At that point in time, everthing was on budget as well.
I have no issue with Apotheis charging an hourly rate as opposed to a fixed price per project. I just like every other customer of any service expect to be informed before my purchased services expire, and before work is continued.
At the time I requested the 2nd version of the website, I was not notified clearly that there would be an extra charge to complete the work. This is my main problem. Only after the work was completed was I notified that I would need to pay more to receive it.
I may be the first person this has happened to, in which case I think that Apotheis has a great record of overall customer service. If you are thinking about doing business with Apotheis/MyWebStars, they are probably a fine company. For all I know, this may be the first time this has ever happened.
The only reason I am posting here is because I feel that these issues were not handled professionally or fairly when I brought it up with the company. I do not feel like my "absolute satisfaction" was all that mattered.
I would be satisfied if Apotheis assured me and everyone that sees this message that in the future, they will inform their clients when a request for updates will run over their alotted hours before continuing with it, or at the very least, tell them a few hours before the time runs up.
It would also be nice if they had some way of showing clients how many hours have been used on a project before just saying that their time is up.
I think this is a fair request.
Aaron
Honolulu,Hawaii,
U.S.A.
I just like every other customer of any service expect to be informed before my purchased services expire
#9Author of original report
Tue, January 23, 2007
The mentioned feedback was left. I do not deny this fact. I left it because at the time that I was asked to leave it, I was happy with the way things were going. The incidents that I wrote this report about happened after I left the feedback. From the beginning, it looked like Apotheis was an excellent company and I had no reason to believe otherwise. At that point in time, everthing was on budget as well.
I have no issue with Apotheis charging an hourly rate as opposed to a fixed price per project. I just like every other customer of any service expect to be informed before my purchased services expire, and before work is continued.
At the time I requested the 2nd version of the website, I was not notified clearly that there would be an extra charge to complete the work. This is my main problem. Only after the work was completed was I notified that I would need to pay more to receive it.
I may be the first person this has happened to, in which case I think that Apotheis has a great record of overall customer service. If you are thinking about doing business with Apotheis/MyWebStars, they are probably a fine company. For all I know, this may be the first time this has ever happened.
The only reason I am posting here is because I feel that these issues were not handled professionally or fairly when I brought it up with the company. I do not feel like my "absolute satisfaction" was all that mattered.
I would be satisfied if Apotheis assured me and everyone that sees this message that in the future, they will inform their clients when a request for updates will run over their alotted hours before continuing with it, or at the very least, tell them a few hours before the time runs up.
It would also be nice if they had some way of showing clients how many hours have been used on a project before just saying that their time is up.
I think this is a fair request.
Apotheis
Midland,Texas,
U.S.A.
Apotheis' Response to this Libelous Post
#9UPDATE Employee
Tue, January 23, 2007
Why was this posted anonymously - we can only assume this client did not want reveal his name, domains, nor his clients' information. If so, that is fine. We will respect this inferred request for privacy, for now.
Hours of our time were purchased. This was not a fixed-price project. As was agreed, when client's purchased hours were expended, we requested client post feedback for this project. The feedback below was posted without hesitation or protest.
"Great work, very fast response times!"
Adherence to cost - Perfect 5.0
Quality of work - Perfect 5.0
Responsiveness - Perfect 5.0
Professionalism - Perfect 5.0
Subject matter expertise - Perfect 5.0
Adherence to schedule - Perfect 5.0
Take special note of client's evaluation of our 'Adherence to cost' in the above review. We will send the URL to this feedback upon request. Contact us direct at our site.
Client stopped this project at almost full delivery and provided major redirection. The entire site, both Flash and HTML versions, had to be re-produced a second time. It was not, and is not, our responsibility to absorb project overages. Hours of our time were purchased - nothing more and nothing less. In client's own words, in discussions with our Project Manager prior to client's award of this project to us...
"I certainly understand... the worst thing in the world is when a fixed price project goes awry and the client starts changing their mind on everything."
Once client's hours were expended. We continued production with absolutely no guarantee of payment. Client did not authorize this additional production and we never expected client to pay for it - unless client wanted it. As it turned-out, client did want what we produced. And, client paid for it. Client was offered what was produced for the original purchased block of hours, without any additional payment, and client never responded. Client wanted the completed site and all source files - and, client paid for the hours we expended to produce those deliverables, major redirection and all source files included.
Then, client went to this site and posted this libel.
The very next day, client approached our Project Manager again and requested a quote from us to complete the remaining CMS portion of this project.
Contrary to the libel this client has posted here, we deal with all our clients from a place of integrity. That is the reason we have such an exceptional reputation and why we have so many wonderful testimonials and such overwhelmingly positive feedback for our projects - including this client's Perfect 5 feedback. Unfortunately, not all our clients, deal with us from a place of integrity.
1% of our client's give us this kind of trouble. It is simply part of this business. Not all our clients work with us in an honest and truthful manner.
Apotheis myWEBSTARS
Note to Prospective Clients:
We have prepared a brief on this incident and will share it with you. Contact us direct at our website for details.
Disclaimer:
We do no accept the State of Arizona as exclusive jurisdiction for any reason whatsoever.