Avondale Hyundai Blatant Dishonesty in credit and contract negotiation ripoff Avondale Arizona
Greetings,
I've been looking to purchase a new vehicle for the past couple weeks. After being unsuccessful in obtaining a high enough trade value for my (then) current vehicle, I had see an ad on TV for the 2005 Hyundai Tucson at Avondale Hyundai.
I called them and asked if they still had the special, and the manager there, Sherry, stated they did. I explained to her that I would not be able to come down unless they could do better than the other offers I received from the other dealerships. She stated that would be able to do better. (Offers were as high as $7,000 from other dealerships for 2003 Toyota Matrix XR; 83k mi.)
I went down to Avondale Hyundai on Saturday 04/30/2005 and unfortunately Sherry had gone home sick. I spoke to Sales Associate Robert Vargas. We worked together for quite some time on the deal. I intially gave him a price break down of what I was looking to get. (See attached) To my delight there were a couple other incentives/rebates that we qualified for. When he took the deal to his manager, he came back and had me fill out a credit application. We initially did a joint credit application, my wife and I; however more than likely we were going to just finance the car under her name, because of a bankruptcy I had in 2001.
They came back and stated that we would not qualify for Hyundai Financing, nor any of then incentives (other than a Hyndai Loyalty rebate of $750, for owning another Hyundai) because we needed to have 740 credit. So the $2,300 that Sherry had stated to me over the phone would apply, did not, and she made no mention of there being any stipulations.
After being told that in order to do the loan, we had to go 72 months to keep the payments at around $315; but we needed to put down $2,000. Very reluctant, we went ahead with the deal.
After driving off the lot, I regretted having done the deal. I called Robert Vargas the following day to advise him that I had put a stop payment on the $2,000 due to some financial issues. I wanted to verify with Hyundai Finance what the Sales/Finance team had said was true.
I spoke with a gentleman at HMFC (Hyundai Motor Finance Company), Phillip, and he stated that there are no requirements that you must have 740 credit to receiving any other their offered specials, nor do they limit their approvals to people with a credit score of 740 or higher.
Calling again later that morning to see if in fact a credit application had even been submitted, another representative from HMFC stated that if it was submitted and came back declined, we would receive a letter in the mail stating the reasons.
After obtaining this information, my wife and I went to another Hyundai Dealership to submit a HMFC credit application. I sat there and watched this sales manager submit the application and return the information. The application came back with a credit score of 693 for my wife; and he stated that there would be no problems financing through HMFC (As was the response from Phillip earlier that day when I informed him if a credit score of that calibur would be accepted as long as all other aspects looked fine)
Once I received all that information justly proving that we had been lied to and cohersed into a deal of false pretenses, I called to talk to Sherry, however again she was ill. I spoke to another manager, Sam, who listened to my complaint but insisted that I must speak to the finance director because there's nothing he nor his sales staff would have been able to do. Very upset at this point, I agreed to speak to the finance director, Robert Clark.
Advising Mr. Clark of what events took place in the past few days, he stated that it was a signed contract and he would not re-negotiate. I again explained that the deal was signed under false information and lies based on what was said by the Sales/Finance Manager to get us to extend the terms to 72mo instead of 60mo and the pricing & rebates we were entitled to.
We went back and forth for quite some time, while he stated each time that by going to another Hyundai Dealership doesn't mean anything because they can promise you different things.
My point to him was that I had filled out a credit application for HMFC and had him submit it. I could have gone to any Hyundai dealership in the world and had anyone of them submit that application to HMFC and it would come back with the same results; simple fact. He then said he would not do anything and if I wanted to have a 60mo term to pay more money.
My final point was that for his sales/finance team to come to my wife and I and say that we didn't qualify for financing under HMFC and would not receive the rebates was a lie. I'm sure there are some laws that hold dealerships and salespeople to some standards in truthfullness, and protect consumers from such problems.
Regards.
Avondale Hyundai Employees:
Hyundai General Manager: Mike Fuhs
Hyundai Sales Manager: Randy
Hyundai Sales Associate: Robert Vargas
Hyundai Finance Director: Robert Clark robert_clark@avondalehyundai.com
Hyundai Finance Associate: Albert
Michael
Maricopa, Arizona
U.S.A.
Click here to read other Rip Off Reports on Hyundai
7 Updates & Rebuttals
Michael
Maricopa,Arizona,
U.S.A.
Ripped Off Again at Hyundai
#8Author of original report
Thu, May 05, 2005
See report #141620 for information. After this horrific incident, I felt compelled to try again elsewhere; same results...
Michael
Barnegat,New Jersey,
U.S.A.
Discretion on rates
#8Consumer Suggestion
Wed, May 04, 2005
Just as an FYI, the dealership has rather limited authority when it comes to the interest rate. Hyundai Finance stated to you the 'Dealership has discretionary power over the interest rate' as a boilerplate statement so you understand the interest rate is not determined by the bank, but rather the dealer sets the percentage.
However- this doesn't really apply in this instance. If Hyundai is offering say 3.9% for tier one customers, and you come in as a tier two, the bank might set the rate at 4.9% due to credit situations. In the instance of a subvene rate from the manufacturer (this is the advertising you hear about 0%, 1.9%, 4.9%, basically any time you hear a rate quoted on TV, Radio, or in print, it's set by the manufacturer), the dealership is generally not permitted to adjust the rate over the amount advertised as in Incentive. The only time this can change is in the event you are approved as something other than Tier 1 (or A tier, whatever Hyundai actually calls it- I don't work for them, so I don't know).
What the bank meant in this instance was the dealership has the authority to mark up the rate if a customer is approved at a standard interest rate, rather than an advertised incentive. For example, on the vehicle in question if you were approved as a tier 2, you might get the choice of either the 4.9% or you could have an interest rate of 7.62%. Of course you'll choose the 4.9%, but what if that 4.9% was in lieu of a $2000.00 rebate? Might make sense to take the higher rate and owe less on the car, you'd have to decide at the time. If you do take the 7.62% though, the dealership has the authority to mark that rate up within the guidelines set by the bank. The bank might state they can mark it up 2%, 1%, .5%, there's no way to know. But, that's what Hyundai Finance meant- the dealership can mark up the rate if they choose provided you are NOT on a subvene advertised rate special, if you are on the advertised rate, the dealership may not mark it up- you have to be given the advertised rate.
The dealership cannot, however, mark DOWN an interest rate. If the bank approves you for 7.62%, the dealer cannot simply give you 5.25% because you're a helluva nice guy. The bank's rate is what it is, and there's no getting around that number. The dealer can, if the bank allows it, mark the rate down that 2.37% difference and give the bank a check for the amount of the difference in the rate. In this instance the customer would still be paying for it, just it would appear as though you had a lower interest rate and a higher price- that check for the pre-paid interest would come out of the profit of the car, so you're still paying it, just it shows differently on the contract is all.
That's a great deal of information to explain a relatively simple thing- what the bank tells the dealer the rate is, is what the rate will be and no lower. Regardless of if the dealer marks it down and cuts the bank a check or if you pay the rate they're given, you're still going to pay the money. Dealerships cannot gainsay a lender into a lower rate than what they offer, the lender has to authorize the rate. If they dealership can or chooses to mark that rate up, that's a different story entirely.
Michael
Maricopa,Arizona,
U.S.A.
Issue Resolved
#8Author of original report
Wed, May 04, 2005
Well, today the issue was laid to rest. I received a call from the sales manager who was polite enough to talk to. I explained to him the ordeal and what was said and the issues with the rebates not being applied. While he tried to work his magic stating that the rebates were all apart of a grander rebate that I already got (more lies) I called his bluff and had proof.
Regardless of what dealers may get away with, the simple fact that both him and the sales associate walked up to me and my wife and stated loud enough for another buyer to hear; we did not qualify for Hyundai financing and the rebates required 740 credit. How is it that the rebates required 740 credit, but now he just stated we got those credits in a grander rebate???
Anyway, I e-mailed the GM, the Finance director, and the sales manager and stated that if I did not get the deal I wanted by 5pm today, I would take legal action. Within 30 min, I received a call from the Sales Manager stating the GM just wants me to return the car.
So at 5:30pm today, I returned the car and got my car back (all washed and pretty)
Also, the reason I did not include tax, is because my wife and I live on an Indian Reservation, and do not have to pay federal tax, nor exhuberant amounts of Plate Fees either. That's pretty much the only benefit I see worthy.
Also, I meant to show 0.9% financing, not 5.9. Dealers have the discretion to make any rate they want according to HMFC, and after this ordeal, that's what I wanted; I'm a nice guy, I don't need 0% all together. :)
So if you're in a sticky situation like I was, just look for the facts where they are, and prove your case.
Some of the things that helped me was the TV advertisement where the car was displayed for $14,895. TV ads must use disclaimers if there are credit stipulations (there wasn't) Also, they did not have any written documentation about requiring 740 credit to receive any rebates. If ever a dealership states that you were misunderstood about certain $ amounts, just ask for the proof in writing. That is why they told me to bring the car back; because I paid attention and made sure that they couldn't hide behind any legal jargon of their own; and they couldn't.
If I do have the desire to buy a new car in the next month or so, believe me that I will be getting everything in writing and signed before hand by someone who ultimately has authority.
Regards
Armando
Phoenix,Arizona,
U.S.A.
Some observations
#8Consumer Comment
Tue, May 03, 2005
I empathize with your situation and I do hope you can resolve it to your satisfaction. However, being a numbers guy myself I have a couple of observations.
First, my calculations show that monthly payments for financing the amount you stated for 60 months @ 5.9% would be closer to $350 per month.
Second, I didn't see any sales tax on this transaction.
With regard to your contract, unless it contained some sort of contingency regarding financing. I am afraid you are stuck with a signed contract.
While you did do your homework regarding financing, you did it AFTER you signed the contract and not before.
Unfortunately, buyer's remorse is not a defense for voiding a contract.
While you could argue that the dealership made certain verbal representations to you upon which you relied in signing the contract, it could be difficult to prove these verbal representations were made. I sincerely doubt the dealership would say "yes, we told him that in order to get him to sign the contract."
On the other hand, the dealership has a contract reducing the terms of your deal into writing, bearing your signature, indicating you agreed to such terms.
While not impossible, proving verbal representations made prior to signing a contract are difficult.
I hope whichever attorney you consult with can prove me wrong. And if he does, I want his name because I've got a couple of dealerships on my hit list as well.
Michael
Maricopa,Arizona,
U.S.A.
RE: This crapola sounds familiar, is this a Larry Miller dealership?
#8Consumer Comment
Tue, May 03, 2005
I can't say for sure who owns the dealership, but normally Larry Miller Dealerships will have that in their name. This is just Avondale Hyundai. I've heard though Larry Miller Dealerships are bad though. My wife was suckered into a $24k used VW Jetta deal from Earnhardt's. It's mostly her fault for even doing that; she has no sense of $ value, but $24k for a used Jetta! That's a ripoff and lies all around right there. I may have to get some legal assistance for this as they're not wanting to budge on anything because of a signed contract. Such a hassle, why can't dealerships just do business the right way the first time and you'll always get referrals and return business? Oh well.
Gregg
Fresno,California,
U.S.A.
This crapola sounds familiar, is this a Larry Miller dealership?
#8Consumer Comment
Tue, May 03, 2005
With such shabby treatment from a schlock operation I have to ask, is this a Larry Miller dealership?
Michael
Maricopa,Arizona,
U.S.A.
Deal I submitted to Avondale Hyundai
#8Author of original report
Tue, May 03, 2005
The following is what I was prepared to offer...
2005 Hyundai Tucson
MSRP
Sherry: Quoted Discount/Rebate $2300
Special Offer Hyundai Valued Owner Coupon $750
College Grad Discount $400
Total Discounts/Rebates $3,500
Subtract Total Discounts/Rebates from MSRP $17,499
Down Payment $2,000
Total Vehicle Cost $12,049
2003 Toyota Matrix
Current Payoff $12,000
Trade in Value $7,000
Add to Total Vehicle Cost $5,000
Cost after Trade Difference Added $17,049
Finance Charges
Other Insurance Paid to the Insurance Company $325
Doc Fee $399
Title & License $18.75
GAP $325
Add to Cost after Trade Difference $1,067.75
Total Vehicle Cost $18,116.75
Payments @ 60 months $301.94
Total Cost with Financing at 5.9% @ 60 months $319.75