Complaint Review: Bank Of America

The issue I have is not with the fee itself, it's that they SEQUENCE THE CHECKS for the most profit. One fee is understandable, five is excessive. There is no other reason to do this other than to create a maximum penalty for the customer. I've NEVER advocated that someone should be able to overdraft their account without some penalty. I'm saying the banks shouldn't TAKE ADVANTAGE, which is what it is, of the fact that they are allowed to sequence the order of drafts in order to maximize profits. I'd like to both of you to give me an example of another indusrty beside the credit card companies that do this.

Don't give me that whole personal responsibility guff, we're not talking a kid who grew up to be a criminal because he had some predisposition to it. This is a case of huge corporation taking money from people for no other reason than to profit. At least if you could illustrate how a customer overdrafting their account COST the bank I could see it to some degree. The bank is not a victim here by any means. Yeah we agreed to it in the contract but are you really trying to say that the average person can actually understand the implication of the bank being able to draft in any order they like??

Overall, as I said in the beginning, I'm not trying to say banks shouldn't be able to charge fees or that one should overspend, what I'm saying is that they shouldn't stack the deck against you in their favor. Sure they're there to make money and they should. I thought banks made money via LENDING, not fees. I know you (Stile) work in the industry and probably get complaints all day and you did point that B of A has the most complaints in this area so yes, the solution is to go to another bank. Just keep in mind that this may not be the way of it forever. The Video rental places are pretty much done with the excessive late fees of the past, perhaps we will see a similar change in the banking industry which I'm sure would reduce many of the complaints.

By the way, you are correct in my misuse of the term "pork barrel". I probably meant to say "money grubbing"

First, I don't work in financial services...I'm just a regular guy.

The bottom line is for you and all the others who complain about how banks post checks to create the largest amount of NSF fees: It doesn't matter how they post checks, or when they post them. If you have $500 in your account, and have $499 in debits, it doesn't matter if they come in immediately, 5 days later, 5 weeks later, backwards, forwards, sideways, alphabetically, lowest to highest, highest to lowest, via covered wagon, or beamed in from outer space. Why? Because you spent less than what your balance was.

This is just NOT AN ISSUE, and certainly is NOT A RIPOFF, if you don't spend more than what's in your account.

I think that all the folks who complain about this overdraw their accounts, and do so knowingly, thinking, "I'll go ahead and pay the $33 NSF fee for groceries today," then get mad when they incur more than the one fee.

YOU overdrew your account, it's YOUR fault. Subtract everything from YOUR balance IMMEDIATELY (including ATM fees), keep your own register and don't rely on online or ATM receipts for your bank balance -- it's not the bank's job to be your personal accountant, and you'll never have an NSF problem.

Yes, banks are out to make a profit and don't care about their customers -- I will agree with you on this. But beat them at their own game -- they only get as many NSF fees out of you as you allow them to.

"A search through these complaints shows that you say you're in financial services, in one response, you said "when a customer complains to me about a $2 ATM fee" so obviously you work at a BANK, let's call it what it is."

Yes, I've said I work in the financial services industry, of which Banks are a part.

"I'm curious as to how you got into the hobby of responding everyone's complaint regarding NSF fees. Does it really bother you that much? Are you like an antiwar protestor or a gun control advocate but rather than anything so lofty you go after mundane causes like defending a bank's right to charge nasty little fees because "hey! you agreed to it when you signed that microscopic print contract!"? I also notice that the vast majority of your responses are directed toward folks complaining about Bank of America. Either you work for them or perhaps it has to do with the fact that Bank of America is WORST offender followed by Wells Fargo and WAMU."

I got into the hobby of looking at the site when a former coworker pointed out an entry against one of our former employers. Until then, I hadn't realized the site existed, and I check several times a week if not daily since then. Incidentally, this isn't the only site to which I post. I post to several others ranging from education policy, to science discussion, to just plain fun. I post because I enjoy the discussions that ensue online, and the sometimes engaging arguments; they're good mental exercise.

It's probably true that most of my responses are on BofA threads, but considering that Bofa has the most complaints, this isn't really surprising, is it? Incidentally, of the 3 threads I've had the most participation in, 1 was for Wachovia, and 2 for BofA. I've posted rebuttals for other banks as well, except Wells Fargo (the one I work for). I don't post for Wells because it somehow seems disingenuous to post for my employer under the guise of being a neutral party.

"What is most annoying is that you and others like take the time to come onto a site which is intended to be a venue for folks to air complaints. I see many complaints in my own industry that I feel may be unfounded but I don't go out of my way to rebut them in an attempt to defend the whole industry single-handedly!! Are our NSF fees or complaints REALLY a concern of yours? Do you just loose sleep at night wondering if any new complaints have been posted?? I'm sorry we can't all be as perfect as you. Maybe we're all spending SO much money on lavish lifestyles we have no right even thinking about living. Electricity, heat, food....who do we think we are? Paris Hilton?? Maybe you should trace it back to bad career choices or not studying enough for the SATS or too much TV as kids."

If you've really read my posts, then you know I don't defend the industry single-handedly, as you put it. I calls em like I sees em. If there is a case where the bank is outright wrong (like a case the other day where a bank associate breached the bank's privacy policy) I recommend contacting the appropriate authorities. When I do post about bank policies, I typically restrict myself to cases where there is a misconception by the poster, or sometimes an outright misrepresentation. In the case of this thread, the OP stated that he didn't believe it took 3 days or more to post a checkcard item to his account. I explained why it does, without discussing the merits of his fees one way or the other, except to say that fees can be avoided altogether by keeping a balanced account.

I don't lose sleep, and I've never claimed to be perfect, but the fact of the matter is that there are a lot of misunderstandings about how banking transactions work. I have special knowledge about the subject being an industry insider, so to speak, and so I'm choosing to share my knowledge in most cases not to defend policies, but to make people better consumers. I've advised people how to file claims on their accounts, how to avoid paying fees when they're not legit, how to contact an executive department within the bank, and how to file suit when appropriate. But because I don't instantly wail and gnash my teeth when someone states that they overspent and got charged fees, I'm called various names and accused of greed and misanthropy.

You get annoyed that people like me post in defense of that which you would prefer to simply commiserate about. Well I get annoyed when people blame banks for things that aren't the fault of the banks in the first place.

If you don't care for my informed reasoned responses, you can choose to remain ignorant and skip right past them, but I'll continue posting. "Think for yourselves and let others enjoy the privilege to do so too." -Voltaire

"Give me a break. STOP defending these pork barrel fees that do nothing but fatten the bottom line of the banks and screw people who are probably already down on their luck even further down. I'm sorry we can't all be as perfect as you!!!"

Pork Barrel (n): a legislative appropriation designed to ingratiate legislators with their constituents.

The word you're looking for is probably more akin to gratuitous. And as I've said before, banks are a business, not a charity. They are looking to make money off of every one of their customers plain and simple. So is your grocery store, your pizza place, and your movie theater. It's called capitalism, friends. If you don't like how your bank works, that's what's great about the free market, you can switch banks. If you don't like how a bank you've seen described works, you don't have to use that bank. If you're opposed to banking in general, then you're going to have to either find a friendly credit union, or start hiding your money in the mattress.

In the end, the only thing I advocate is responsibility. Read contracts you enter into and don't spend more money than you have. Is that really such controversial advice?

A search through these complaints shows that you say you're in financial services, in one response, you said "when a customer complains to me about a $2 ATM fee" so obviously you work at a BANK, let's call it what it is.

I'm curious as to how you got into the hobby of responding everyone's complaint regarding NSF fees. Does it really bother you that much? Are you like an antiwar protestor or a gun control advocate but rather than anything so lofty you go after mundane causes like defending a bank's right to charge nasty little fees because "hey! you agreed to it when you signed that microscopic print contract!"? I also notice that the vast majority of your responses are directed toward folks complaining about Bank of America. Either you work for them or perhaps it has to do with the fact that Bank of America is WORST offender followed by Wells Fargo and WAMU.

What is most annoying is that you and others like take the time to come onto a site which is intended to be a venue for folks to air complaints. I see many complaints in my own industry that I feel may be unfounded but I don't go out of my way to rebut them in an attempt to defend the whole industry single-handedly!! Are our NSF fees or complaints REALLY a concern of yours? Do you just loose sleep at night wondering if any new complaints have been posted?? I'm sorry we can't all be as perfect as you. Maybe we're all spending SO much money on lavish lifestyles we have no right even thinking about living. Electricity, heat, food....who do we think we are? Paris Hilton?? Maybe you should trace it back to bad career choices or not studying enough for the SATS or too much TV as kids.

Give me a break. STOP defending these pork barrel fees that do nothing but fatten the bottom line of the banks and screw people who are probably already down on their luck even further down. I'm sorry we can't all be as perfect as you!!!

And no, it's not all done electronically.

"2. They withhold electronic transfers or ATM charges for up to five days so that they post in a batch with the other checks including the largest one placed in there out of order.

For example you charge something or take out money on the 23rd and it doesn't actually post until the 28th at which point it incurs an NSF fee because another large check that wasn't received until the 28th. Why should you be charged for a transaction done on the 23rd when there was money in there because of a charge that occured on the 28th. Don't tell me it took that long to post, it's all done electronically, you can even see it on the account waiting there in the pending transactions columm for DAYS waiting for the large check to come in and create 5 NSF fees for all the small charges that occured before it."

When you make an ATM transaction, assuming there is no error when the ATM is batched out at the end of the day, the transaction will post the next business day. Now, if you do a transaction on a Friday, this means it won't post until Monday at midnight (Tuesday morning), but it shouldn't extend beyond that unless there's a holiday on Monday, or an error at the ATM which causes your transaction to mis-post. The same is true for all PIN based transactions.

As far as holding transactions to maximize fees, this simply isn't the case. When you make a credit based transaction at a merchant (using the card without the PIN) that transaction then has to be batched out by the merchant, sent to the merchant's bank, sent through the Visa Debit Processing System, and then sent to BofA who debits your account.

If the merchant batches out their transactions the same night, then your item will usually post in 2-3 days, which is precisely why BofA holds the authorization on your account for 3 days. But if after that 3rd day, the transaction hasn't been presented to the bank by the merchant (maybe the merchant only batches out once per week) then the funds go back into your available balance. If you then re-spend the same funds, you will be overdrawn when the transaction posts. I hope this clears some things up.

Incidentally, those that do defend the banks and champion personal responsibility don't deny that the banks order the transactions largest to smallest to maximize profit. So what? If you keep an account balanced, which everyone should be able to do 99% of the time, then there's no reason why you should ever be subject to overdraft fees.

It's a tough lesson to learn, and it requires a lot of discipline, and sometimes a change in spending habits, but ultimately it's the only way to ever guarantee you'll never have a fee again.