Complaint Review: Bank Of America

I also bank with BofA. When you use the on-line bill pay, it shows you "2 day delivery". (an example - they can vary.)

When you log on and pay your bills on Friday, the 2 day delivery is Monday. Therefore, your bills will reflect Monday's date as the posting date.

So, when you husband used the debit card, you were, in fact, overdrawn. Perhaps not on paper, but overdrawn, nonetheless. He spent money you really didn't have.

Thanks Michael and Steve,

Michael, you may have missed it in my posting, but I did have overdraft protection. It was hooked to my savings account. Unfortunley, at the time of this event, there were no funds in that account. As to using credit cards, it is something we avoid because we have had debt issues in the past. But as I wrote in a posting above, after this happened, I changed my overdraft protection to my BoA credit card.

Steve is correct about debit vs credit. We only run our debit card as a "credit".

As I mentioned above, I worked in accounting at a hotel for many years. I learned alot about credit cards and debit cards because I was the one who got the calls for any charge disputes. I was surprised about how many people, who would call me, who had no idea how the process works. Most did not know that there is a difference between an authorization and a charge. Being a hotel, we authorized a persons card (debit or credit)when they checked in. But we would not charge, obviously, until they checked out. For our charges, they generally did not post to a persons bank or credit account until 2 business days after.
HERE'S SOME IMPORTANT INFO FOR ALL DEBIT CARD USERS THAT BANKS DON'T TELL YOU:
1. A bank should never use an authorization against you. This is not a charge and should never be used to overdraft/overlimit an account. Some banks do and if yours does, leave that bank! BoA does NOT use authorizations against their customers like alot of banks don't. But there are, in my experience, a few banks out there that do.
2. Hotel Stays: When staying at a hotel, you should use a credit card or pay cash. If you must use a debit card, keep in mind that the hotel at check-in will authorize an amount to cover the cost of the room stay PLUS tax PLUS an amount to cover potential incidentals. At major hotels, this is computerized and is a formula that generically comes up with an amount to authorize. This authorization amount is completely up to the hotel, you have no say. The reason: The hotel has to make sure that you do not leave without paying your bill and at check-in they do not know what you may potentially charge to your room. Hotels also will authorize your card for more if you come close or go over your authorization during your stay.
The reason I emphasize not to use your debit card at a hotel is that you will have no access to these funds while it is being held, until the bank gets the final charge. Example: Lets say at check in the hotel authorized your card for $150. And when you checkout your final bill is $100. The hotel charges your card for $100 using the authorization they did at check-in. You will not have access to that $50 difference until the bank receives this final charge 2 or more days AFTER you checked out.
This is why most banks like BoA do NOT charge you overdraft fees if just an authorization makes yours bank balance in the negative.

I really wish banks would give customers easy to understand, written in laymans terms, information explaining all this. Instead you get brochures filled with hard to understand bank terms and legaleze.

I already knew alot about all this but have learned more from all your postings. So thanks everyone! That is why I have imparted some of my knowledge above as repayment for your help and to help those who do not know how the complicated banking business works.

I think many people do not understand that when using your debit card, it is ONLY a TRUE debit transaction if you enter your PIN#. This transaction will post almost immediately.

If you just swipe your debit card and DO NOT input your PIN#. it is treated as a CREDIT TRANSACTION by the merchant. This can take several days to clear.

I understand that many people, including myself sometimes do not have a large cushion in the checking account. With this in mind, we all need to be very careful in how we use our debit cards and with whom.

Good luck.

It is also my understanding that use of a debit card incurs immediate debiting of your account, even if not yet posted.. the money is considered spent, gone at the moment of the transaction. For various reasons, including possible need to return merchandise, there is far more protection in using a credit card. If your husband had used a credit card, you would have had at least 25 days to make your payment by check and still may have taken several days to clear the bank.

My experience with B of A has been for the most part they are understanding and human. They have reversed charges for me in many situations.

In one instance my problem was not resolved until I spoke to a gentleman in the Office of the President of B of A. An employee connected me there.. I was shocked when they answered that this was the President's Office. My problem was immediately solved. Please phone (or write) to the B of A President and explain the tornado and the mistake your husband used with the debit card.

For the future, consider overdraft protection.. it still has fees but avoids an overdraft situation.

I would bet that B of A will reverse the charges under the circumstances. Emphasize the natural disaster and B of A's commitment to the commmunity. Go to the top! Good luck!

For anyone who may be interested:

Thanks to Nikki for her info on processing. I have a much better understanding now. I don't know why the bank could not have explained it to me.

Well, anyways, I got so caught up in this, I saw the deposit before the debits thing, that I lost sight of the reason all this happened in the first place. Our emergency rental of a sewer snake after a Tornado and bad thunderstorm hit our city. Without this single purchase, my account would have been fine. I am appealing to BoA based on this emergency.

I am wondering if anyone knows if BoA in the past has forgiven this kind of things due to emergencies?!?

Thanks for the additional info Nikki.

I still find it confusing because I worked in accounting at a hotel for a few years and I had to field alot of calls about cc issues. We had always found that charges usually posted to customers accounts about 2 business days after the batches were processed. And the post date would be that date not the date of batch processing. I think alot of it has to do with what cc processing company a particular business uses to process their credit cards.
It still seems that BoA should put my incident down as a technicality and refund my money. After all my deposit got processed before they got around to processing the debits.
I am still awaiting a response from BoA to my last email of several hours ago.

Thanks for the additional info Nikki.

I still find it confusing because I worked in accounting at a hotel for a few years and I had to field alot of calls about cc issues. We had always found that charges usually posted to customers accounts about 2 business days after the batches were processed. And the post date would be that date not the date of batch processing. I think alot of it has to do with what cc processing company a particular business uses to process their credit cards.
It still seems that BoA should put my incident down as a technicality and refund my money. After all my deposit got processed before they got around to processing the debits.
I am still awaiting a response from BoA to my last email of several hours ago.

Thanks for the additional info Nikki.

I still find it confusing because I worked in accounting at a hotel for a few years and I had to field alot of calls about cc issues. We had always found that charges usually posted to customers accounts about 2 business days after the batches were processed. And the post date would be that date not the date of batch processing. I think alot of it has to do with what cc processing company a particular business uses to process their credit cards.
It still seems that BoA should put my incident down as a technicality and refund my money. After all my deposit got processed before they got around to processing the debits.
I am still awaiting a response from BoA to my last email of several hours ago.

Thanks for the additional info Nikki.

I still find it confusing because I worked in accounting at a hotel for a few years and I had to field alot of calls about cc issues. We had always found that charges usually posted to customers accounts about 2 business days after the batches were processed. And the post date would be that date not the date of batch processing. I think alot of it has to do with what cc processing company a particular business uses to process their credit cards.
It still seems that BoA should put my incident down as a technicality and refund my money. After all my deposit got processed before they got around to processing the debits.
I am still awaiting a response from BoA to my last email of several hours ago.

Hi, it's me again. Banks do not determine posting date for charges. The posting date is the date the merchant runs their batches.

When you swipe your card as a credit transaction, your money is on hold, but the merchant does not actually get your money until they run their batch. When they run their batch (can be that night, the next night, the next week), the money actually gets taken out of your account and deposited into theirs. That is the date the bank uses as the posting date. If the merchant runs their batch on the weekend, some banks use the weekend date as the date of post and some banks use Monday as the post date. Be careful if the bank uses Monday for all posts over the weekend because that is 3 days worth of NSF's they will charge you for. If you check your previous statements, you will see if the bank posted any charges with weekend dates or Monday dates.

If you run your card and use your pin, it does not matter when the merchant decides to run their batch. The money is immediately debited from your account and dated that exact day.

Hi, it's me again. Banks do not determine posting date for charges. The posting date is the date the merchant runs their batches.

When you swipe your card as a credit transaction, your money is on hold, but the merchant does not actually get your money until they run their batch. When they run their batch (can be that night, the next night, the next week), the money actually gets taken out of your account and deposited into theirs. That is the date the bank uses as the posting date. If the merchant runs their batch on the weekend, some banks use the weekend date as the date of post and some banks use Monday as the post date. Be careful if the bank uses Monday for all posts over the weekend because that is 3 days worth of NSF's they will charge you for. If you check your previous statements, you will see if the bank posted any charges with weekend dates or Monday dates.

If you run your card and use your pin, it does not matter when the merchant decides to run their batch. The money is immediately debited from your account and dated that exact day.

Hi, it's me again. Banks do not determine posting date for charges. The posting date is the date the merchant runs their batches.

When you swipe your card as a credit transaction, your money is on hold, but the merchant does not actually get your money until they run their batch. When they run their batch (can be that night, the next night, the next week), the money actually gets taken out of your account and deposited into theirs. That is the date the bank uses as the posting date. If the merchant runs their batch on the weekend, some banks use the weekend date as the date of post and some banks use Monday as the post date. Be careful if the bank uses Monday for all posts over the weekend because that is 3 days worth of NSF's they will charge you for. If you check your previous statements, you will see if the bank posted any charges with weekend dates or Monday dates.

If you run your card and use your pin, it does not matter when the merchant decides to run their batch. The money is immediately debited from your account and dated that exact day.

Hi, it's me again. Banks do not determine posting date for charges. The posting date is the date the merchant runs their batches.

When you swipe your card as a credit transaction, your money is on hold, but the merchant does not actually get your money until they run their batch. When they run their batch (can be that night, the next night, the next week), the money actually gets taken out of your account and deposited into theirs. That is the date the bank uses as the posting date. If the merchant runs their batch on the weekend, some banks use the weekend date as the date of post and some banks use Monday as the post date. Be careful if the bank uses Monday for all posts over the weekend because that is 3 days worth of NSF's they will charge you for. If you check your previous statements, you will see if the bank posted any charges with weekend dates or Monday dates.

If you run your card and use your pin, it does not matter when the merchant decides to run their batch. The money is immediately debited from your account and dated that exact day.

Thanks Nikki.
That does explain to me probably what happened and I really appreciate your response.

I tried to look for an explanation on their website on how they determine the "posting date" but there was none.

I am still perturbed at BoA for not having a manager call me when promised on Wednesday and I never found out why and have yet to speak to a manager. I am not sure what to do now. I still feel I am owed a partial refund.

Thanks Edward and Steve for your comments.

The funny thing is the bank does not disagree with me about what I saw, so that is not even an issue.

They told me that even though my deposit was there, the bank was still processing debits and they had not posted yet when I looked.

That was their explanation!
I read the "Deposit Agreement and Disclosures" trying to find out more info on how they post things. These are the only two statements I could find that seem to pertain:

1."Our policy is to make funds from electronic direct deposits made through the automated clearing house (ACH) and incoming wire transfers available to you on the day we receive the deposit."

2."We may debit your account for a check or other item drawn on your account either on the day it is presented to us for payment, by electronic or other means, or on the day we receive notice that the item has been deposited for collection at another financial institution whichever is earlier. If you do not have sufficient available funds to cover the item, we decide whether to return it or to pay it and overdraw your account."

and the banks definition of Available Balance: "The amount of money in an account that is available for immediate use."

The first statement backs me up that my deposit was available. And the definition backs me up as my deposit was included in my Available Balance when I looked at 4:30AM.
The second statement is vague in that its unclear what they mean. I think the key words are "debit your account". My account was not debited until sometime after 4:30AM Tuesday.

I keep emailing them and am currently waiting a response to my latest. I'm sure their response is going to be a nicely put "Screw You".

Anyone have any suggestions?

I don't understand why banks just don't explain things to their customers. Your dilemma, unfortunate for you, is explainable.

Most banks post the daily transactions after hours mostly on weekdays. They have a central processing department that may stay open all night, or some only until midnight, then re-open again early in the morning.

The data entry clerks who were posting items on Monday night did not finish all their work on Monday night, so they may have left many postings until Tuesday morning, or it may have taken them all night to post. (Monday is their busiest because they have transactions from the weekend and Monday to post). However, the bank knows these items came in for posting on Monday, so when they do get around to finish posting Tuesday morning, they finish Monday's postings with Monday's date.

Also, I believe that different clerks post debits then credits. So your ACH deposit may have been physically posted by someone else before the debits were finished from Monday and that's why you saw the ACH deposit before Monday's debits. When the Monday debits finally get posted, they are inserted before Tuesday's deposit. Even though they were physically posted on Tuesday, they really came in on Monday and that is what allows the banks to pre-date them.

Yes, it does stink. And it also stinks that banks do not really explain things to their customers. They want to rack up as many NSF fees as they can to make money.

Take screenshots (to include date and time) of when everything is in your favor. You can call them and tell them what you SAW all day long, but that means nothing to them because there is no proof.

Take screenshots (to include date and time) of when everything is in your favor. You can call them and tell them what you SAW all day long, but that means nothing to them because there is no proof.

Take screenshots (to include date and time) of when everything is in your favor. You can call them and tell them what you SAW all day long, but that means nothing to them because there is no proof.

Take screenshots (to include date and time) of when everything is in your favor. You can call them and tell them what you SAW all day long, but that means nothing to them because there is no proof.

If they did actually POST your ACH deposit and did not have it listed as PENDING, then yes I agree this does look a little fishy. I hate to speculate about what reasoning they might try to use but if I were to guess, they're going to try and say the debits were dated for the 19th and that's when they posted, while the deposit was dated for the 20th. But this doesn't explain why they all showed up in the ledger on the same day. This is strange and I would definitely fight it. Good Luck!

http://www.responsiblelending.org/issues/overdraft/briefs/page.jsp?itemID=28012174

This link has interesting info on "overdraft loans".

Fees have spiraled out of control. This needs to be regulated. My overdraft loan was over 200% more than the actual amount of the overdraft.

Thanks for the info Amber.
I do and did understand the whole processing thing. I just think the bank used a technicality against me and should have at least given me a partial refund of these fees. I was just pointing out that in reality, my account was never really overdrafted. If the bank had processed my debits and then processed this ACH deposit, then of course I would have no argument. But they did not, they processed this deposit and posted it to my account first. I do not know what time they eventually posted these debits but it was after 4:30 AM on Tuesday and my deposit was posted before 4:30 AM.

Thank you for your response, Edward.
You forgot that I wrote that at no point was my account negative in any way.

We always use our debit cards as "credit". One of the bills I paid, I failed to mention, I paid by electronic check directly with that company, not through BoA's website. The 8 items that came through that I mentioned was one e-check, 1 online bill payment and 6 debit card purchases that were run as "Credit".

I wrote my first explanation when tired and here is a briefer explanation:
On Tues 3/20, I logged onto my account at 4:30AM. My ACH deposit was in my account and there were NO debited items posted for the date 3/19. I logged into my account Tues afternoon and there were now debits posted as dated 3/19 and my ACH deposit was posted as 3/20. I am pointing out that my deposit (regardless of dates) was in my account BEFORE the bank posted these debits.

All me deposits are ACH and are always available to access immediatly. So this is not a case of a deposit needing to clear, just to point out.

By the way, I did have overdraft protection with a savings account. My bad luck is we had removed the funds from that account not long ago. After this happened I changed my overdraft protection to a credit card.

Firstly, let me say that I empathize with your situation. I was in Florida at the time of the hurricanes that left so many devastated, homeless, or worse. I know how difficult it can be to worry about your family, friends, and pets when confronted with a disasterous, unpredictable weather situation, let alone worry about your finances. Let me also say that I DO, infact, work for a bank, however, not Bank Of America. I may lack some information on your specific situation, but I beleive your issue is a result of processing. It would seem to me that your actual payday is Tuesday. Items processing for Monday are not posted until late Monday night and into Tuesday morning, which is why they didn't show when you checked your online banking, but the deposit did, as most banks post credits after debits, HOWEVER if, as I suspect, your ACH deposit was actually as of Tuesday, it would not have counted towards any items you had posting for Monday. While it is unfortunate, the charges are legitamate. I do feel, however, that Bank Of America could have shown a bit more liniency in light of your very verifiable situation, however that is neither here nor there. I hope I shed some light on the reason for the fees.

Shannon,

I could be wrong but I think your problem is related to the difference between your "available balanc" vs your "ledger balance". As you stated, you do the bills and you know that on Friday you had paid everything on Friday pretty tightly. The key will be the POINT IN TIME when your husband used the debit card and the amount of this transaction in relation to the others. With BofA, if you use your checkcard as a debit card, that money is IMMEDIATELY DEDUCTED from your "available balance". If this transaction causes your account to go into the negative, you will get charged overdraft fees for it. This is where it "gets tricky" as you mentioned. Even though your deposit came in on the same day that BofA actually posted these items, and even though your ledger balance shows the deposit posted first and then the debits, BofA still charges you overdraft fees for the debits because they overdrew your account WHEN THEY OCCURRED even though THEY HAD NOT YET POSTED. Had your husband used the card as CREDIT instead of DEBIT, you would have been fine. You thought that since the deposit came in on the same day the transactions POSTED that everything should have been fine but not true with BofA. Not sure if other banks do this as well. You are correct that there is not much hope. Sorry.