Complaint Review: Better Business Bureau BBB & CBBB

First the BBB tries to come across as a government agency - they ARE NOT - it's a franchised business. Then IF you pay for Accreditation (only way to get Accreditation) you get an A+ no matter how many complaints you have. They do not help you solve anything. The BBB is basically one online directory - DO NOT PAY FOR it. Google "Complaints against the Better Business Bureau" - scroll past their website results - the ones with bbb.org - maybe past 3 results - and PRESTO! Endless complaints. They are a scam - they claim to be non-profit - yet they make a profit. Screwing our government over as well.

Since the BBB does nothing regarding full complaints, I've tried to use their "Consumer Reviews" section for several businesses so others searching the internet can see what sort of "Experience" I had with said business. The customer review section of the BBB site is *completely separate* from a traditional BBB filed complaint and is supposed to give browsers an "honest opinion" (Positive, neutral, negative) regarding said business.

However, EVERY SINGLE NEGATIVE-RATED complaint I posted was removed on grounds that either 1. I was not a "Customer" of said company or 2. I didn't meet some vague guidelines for reviews.  Both of these responses from the BBB were a crock and obvious to their attempts to REMOVE any negative reviews for companies who paid for their services.

I even went so far as to contact the BBB back and explain that YES I was a customer of that company and tried to provide proof if I had any (Difficult to do with companies you dealt with a long time ago). The BBB either ignored me completely or sent me dumb form replies and never re-instated my reviews. I have YET to have one successful "Negative" customer review posted by those jerks.

The BBB is obviously in the pockets of companies and could care less about true and honest reviews of businesses. Don't waste your time on their website... the whole thing is as big of a joke as "Trustpilot" is (Another website that likes to protect scammers).

There are three major concepts no one here seems to understand I have to offer some insight due to the childishness of all this 1) the BBBs are all francises, there are shady chapters that have been expelled (such as the LA BBB) or should be removed, but you shouldn't hold the ENTIRE BBB system accountable for the ones that are still being worked on, 2) the rating system is based on responsiveness to customer complaints and several other factors not whether or not a fee has been paid, fees are paid for accreditation, and 3) the BBB is a NEUTRAL third-party, this means that they aren't suppose to take a side at all, so when they mark your complaint "resolved" because the business responded, then they are just remaining neutral. If a business gets a high enough volume of complaints it will affect their rating.

Now the BBB does have companies like Geico accredited, which I don't agree with. Their methods are slow, they are old-school, outdated and rigid and need a lot of work. I don't disagree with some of these complaints but WOW people this is just a free for all on the BBB ripping it apart completely. While we are on the subject of the BBB's honesty and "all the shady businesses out there" I got something else to throw at you:

Why don't we discuss customer honesty and integrity, because A LOT of customers just complain about a business to organizations like BBB, yelp, ripoff report, etc. just because they didn't get their way period. I'm sure that's not the case with everyone here but at least the BBB attempts to resolve the matter and attempts to substantiate SOMETHING. Leave them the hell alone why don't you guys write up reports on all these opinion websites that allow customers like you to run their f**cking little mouths about everything just because they feel like it. You love those sites because they allow you to abuse businesses, this is why South Park made that amazing episode about Yelpers abusing restaurants. A lot of you may feel like the BBB let you down and perhaps the BBB didn't do their best but seriously some of you just need to have some boogers and c*m, LOL

Most of the BBB are anti consumer.  I filed a complaint about a order that i never received, and the business response was very nasty. They sent me my order that i paid for but i had to put up with nasty comments, which i was victimized by this business man who had a online thing for a favorite t.v. show i liked. He put up a good fight in not sending my order threaten to sue me and everything else. 

The BBB does not give you justice they make things worse.

I just want to say that I am in total agreement with the author Fed-Up and the comments he made about that lousy coastal carolinas bbb. They should be investigated and SHUT DOWN!! They are absolutely USELESS and do NOTHING to help the consumer.

This business owner makes no sense whatsoever. The truth simply does not stop him from slandering my character, insulting my vehicle or sending falsified documents. Tender Car has received a formal warning from the DATCP investigator for failing to provide an estimate and repair invoice. These were not provided because nothing that was on the estimate from my insurance company was done, in fact, the car was returmed worse than it was prior to the "work" .  No parts were purchased,  inexperienced UNCERTIFIED people/person have never been indentified, no certification proof has been sent In spite of several requests. Jon Petrie is clearly not proud of the job or he would give names and discuss what was done/not done. Instead he chooses to destruct me personally with outright lies...which, by the way, would have nothing to do with the situation. Let that speak for itself. This man in incapable of writing, it is no wonder there are no certifications to submit.

ICAR has absolutely nobody at that business in their system...the lies continue and have drawn out this horrible experience far too long. My car had NO LEAKAGE ISSUES prior. I would never have bothered to look underneath or make an issue of the shoddy body work...I am aware that the car is older and I am NOT an impossible person to please. Bottom line here is fraud and yes, I will demand more than the car is worth NOW because I am seeking double damages and attorney fees. I am doing this for myself and others who have been subjected to such inconscionable acts.

Complete refund??? What a joke! I was offered 350.00 to "make it go away". Wisconsin statute says if there is no estimate or final invoice I am entitled to a full refund even IF THE WORK WAS DONE CORRECTLY. Repair shops have no business winging it and not telling what was done or charged for in detail with an invoice. I am sure the IRS will agree. I can only imagine what this guy is hiding under that mismatched, spray painted and rigged up work ethic. I am so looking forward to court:) Keep it going Petrie, you are doing yourself an injustice and there is only you to blame. Not even once have you discussed the actual work, doesn't it take a lot more energy going through all this? Clearly there are things to hide.  Get a grip, learn how to compose a decent paragraph and save for your attorney....AND MINE. 

Your ridiculous comments have no merit nor will they be addressed by the court so good luck, make a fool of yourself.

i noticed in the letter from your attorney nothing was said concerning me personally.

Listen to him...he knows you're stupid.

The BBB is a joke too, they get paid to post high ratings and we all know it. Funny Petriie Dish never mentioned the DATCP investigator who actually did his job. 

I have never been beligerent, BTW, just on point with direct questions the owner can not or will not answer. Repair shop owners BEWARE, women are not all stupid drunk idiots that you can rip off easily. If you continue this thinking you will get what you deserve. My car was beautiful regardless of it's age, and it was well maintained. Stop blaming everything else for the shortcomings of your terrible, unethical business dude.

It simply is not in the scope of DATCP to judge horrible repairs, they defend the legalities and when legalities are not honoured by businesses there are reasons. Reasons like this. Misrepresentation and fraud are our responsibilities to prove and I certainly will. Auto repair shops can't collect check after check from consumers and insurers and pocket money without doing what is expected and agreed upon. This is particularly true when they lack even enough talent to pull it off. 

PEACE OUT

I believe that exposing your story on the worldwide web was a good idea. A Harvard Business Professor told his class of executives that exposure is a corporation's worst fear. You can stay at this site and type in 269041 and click on Ripoff Report #269041 and scroll down to the consumer comment entitled "Blame it on a Lawyer" and read more of what the good professor said to his class of executives in late 2004.

Good luck to you, and have a wonderful holiday season!

POWER TO THE PEOPLE

I ran an auto repair slash towing service in Orlando fl,like anything in life if you become successful people get jealous it so happen one of my copmpetitors made a false complaint to these shake down artists call the better business bureau the complaint was ""his car was not reaired properly.

Without any way to even prove it they posted on line google and the rest of the search engines picked it making my business look bad over made up lies,Well! The bbb makes a good living accepting lies ruining good business reputation you take time to build a business and just over night they can take it all away from you.

The part pisses me off is when they call you they act as if they are the IRS and you owe them something if you notice once you buy into their scam the compalint goes away.

As business owners we work hard  to build its an every day battle especially in this economy,lack of sleep time away from your familly hoping to have a decent retirement,do not buy into these crooks their will come a time bad reviews wont matter anymore because every good business seem to have one when you see a bad one about you reply fight back let them know you have a voice maybe some day these hooligans will disapear.

www.apluswrecker.com is fighting back

I just worked for the BBB in San Antonio for that last 3months, they hired us all at 12.50$ per hour plus commission.  After 1month of working there with another rep who sat next to me who on a daily basis got pulled off her phone to a private meetiing with our supervisor to be told she wouldn't get a sale she'd made, made me think twice about this org.  That rep would come back to her desk slamming her purse around and pulling out papers from her desk sounding off that she wasn't going to take it anymore swearing about the Austin bully's. After 2months of working for the BBB of San Antonio, they had a VP from Austin who would get on our phoneline and interrupt us hollering to tell us to get off the call because she felt it wouldn't be a closed deal!  In addition to this, she did it to the gal who sat next to me as well.  They fired the VP from Austin with a sudden notice to us all that she was not there anymore in our conference calls with Austin which took place every tues/fri mornings.  They brought in this guy from Detroit, whom they stated trained many BBB's over the years.  He then took our 3 page script which we had all made sales on and gave us a 10pager. After he was with us for a few weeks, we then were told another guy was hired from wiithin to take his place.  I spoke with the man from Detroit and he stated that he thought I should get the commission on a sale I'd just made for 795$ which Austin claimed I couldn't get because an invoice had been mailed out to them.  After speaking with the owner of the business and giving the sales pitch he gladly  signed off on his membership for the next year.  At that point also, we were disconnected from our computer as this was an almost daily occurrance for us.  We had to rely on pre printed business listings to call in case this happened which his company I had on a list I'd printed for that.

BBB didn't care about this, and used an invoice as an excuse not to pay me on that commission.  Knowing that all of us who needed insurance coming up in 3months would cost them dollars it's my belief that they hire/fire reps to make them as much money as possible then after 2months of employment tell us all we have to sign a paper making 7.75$ per hour!  That's what they did to us.  A few reps left immediately, I stayed because I need to work and needed insurance.  After they made us sign with the new trainer from Austin we were then given another form to sign which stated if you don't make 3 sales by next friday your job was over and we had only 4 days being we had monday off for Memorial Day.  Not only did they save on us reps leaving but they made additional monies where they wouldn't have.  I myself brought in 8,000 dollars in that timeframe from Feb 4th to May 31st and yet they didn't think that was BIG enough.

They are ruthless, greedy and downright the worst NON-PROFIT I've ever come in contact with.  And that's not all, they now have the same ad on INDEED.COM seeking reps for 12.50 per hour.  Pulling the scam on the public not only to businesses who don't renew and they end up with an F, and also reject reviews that they post to businesses that don't bend to the liking of BBB.  Lastly, they rip off hard working citizens who bring them $$$ by setting up a system where we can't make the sales before the 3months is over, therefore their excuse is your fired!  That's a whole set up system in the BBB of AUSTIN/SAN ANTONIO an whoever goes along with it is in on the whole gig.  Is there more to the story of BBB, there is.

 In regards to your writing that BBB employees are surprised about the companies complaint process, I have not been surprised in one bit.

Since February, I've been a FT employee of the BBB of San Antonio and I can honestly tell you it hasn't at all been impressive.  At first, I thought this should be a decent career path with a decent amount of money per hour with commissions.  As the first and second month progressed I soon learned what all the business reps who had sat in my chair had experienced.

As the dials revealed to us all the amount of businesses they gave us to attempt to get accredited were either disconnected numbers, out of business all together or not even a business.  In addition to this, as we made our 3 page pitch we were interrupted by a VP up in Austin who would come onto the phone hollering to get us off the phone with that client, while the potential client couldn't hear her, we could.

Well, as the story proves itself all good things come to an end.  She was fired, was it a good thing? Yes.  Following this dismissal several other reps and also the Dir. of HR were quickly leaving.

Low an behold, another trainer comes to see us, kind nice man from Detroit.  He presents not a new 3 page script, but a 10 pager, in which by the end of the fifth page if we weren't winded from voicing all that was to be read ver-batim, we lost the business owner due to customers in front of them, or other calls coming in and not having the time.  As we progressed at a not so fast sales record with this new 10 page script, we continued to train with the new kind man from Detroit. Once again, all good things come to an end.

I was suddendly contacted by the nice kind man from Detroit who thought he'd called another rep that had much more time on the job than I.  As I answered my phone, I did tell him my name and he immediately began announcing to me that he'd been releived of his position in training us.  Also, he began talking to me as if I was another rep, using her name instead of mine.  As I sat there and listened I was saying to  myself, this can't be, it really can't be.  But it was and not only did he tell me that the VP really had it out for me but hated me as well.

What a gut feeling I had when I finally interrupted him and said to him that he was talking to a different rep than the one he thought he was talkiing to. 

With his departure, in comes another to fill his shoes, or should I say try.  He didn't and hasn't filled his shoes and has used threatening statements, such as if you call a business that has been called in less than 6 months you'll be fired.  In addition to this, he's made it mandatory to read the script ver-batim insisting that it produces sales, when it hindered every rep on that floor. He's also instructed us not to use Sir and Mame or ever say thank you.  He's also stated I know it's a southern thing to use Sir and Mame but we are not a customer servie org and it leaves the customer to think they have the upper hand in the phone conversation.  Well guess what, they do.  Have I said Sir and Mame? Yes, have I thanked them, yes.  Have I got sales? yes.  Now today, I just got pulled into a room by my supervisor to be forced to sign a form written by the new VP of sales development that I have to make 3 sales by next friday or my job is over.  And my benefits are scheduled to start at this time period.  Nuff said, they hire and then fire and also give out bogus lead sheets telling us all to call them only to find out they are mostly dead leads which in turn hindered our sales.  Now that the insurance coverage is due they made it harder for us to make more sales and made us sign off on our job at BBB unless we get those 3 sales by next friday.  He also took our 12.50 per hour and made us sign a form that we had to accept deduction to 7.75 per hour or we had no job.  We all signed as he announced that was a crutch for us to lean on.  Excuse me?  12.50 is no crutch when you have to find, organize and investigate company details and also input all the info you get from a business owner after you talk to them.  It's peanuts and it was unfair business practices in which they have done many times to many employees.

Disappointed and disinformed with the BBB and it has now left many of us without enough pay, no benefits if we don't make 3 sales by next friday and last but not least, no job. 

Do i know a lot more about BBB, yes but no time to write it all.

Here is my experience in filing a complaint against a business through the BBB:

1. I write up a detailed description of the problem, including evidence to verfiy the existence of the problem, and submit to the BBB.

2. BBB sends my complaint to the business.

3. The business responds to the BBB with a generic form reply, which is obviously a pre-written reply sent to all BBB complaints. The generic form reply thanks me for my "suggestion" and directly states that no action will be taken.

4. The BBB asks me to "respond" to the generic "reply" from the business, or indicate that my problem has been resolved.

5. As my problem has obviously not been resolved, I notify the BBB that the response from the business was obviously a generic pre-written script which they sent without even reading my problem, and that my problem was not a "suggestion" at all.

6. The BBB closed my complaint, claiming that the business made a "good faith effort" to resolve my problem but that I was unwilling to accept their offer.

WTF???


Esentially, this seems to be the BBB strategy. Allow consumers to file complaints, allow the business to give a "reply" of any sort and then close the complaint. Businesses are in on this scam, since they know all they need to do is send a pre-written reply thanking customers for their "suggestion" and that will meet the BBB standard to have the complaint closed and their "A+" rating protected. The business pays its dues to the BBB, the BBB employees collect their easy paycheck, the business is free to ignore consumer complaints and everyone wins... except the consumer!

And BBB employees are surprised that we think their process is a joke?

Make sure to 'Google' this- BETTER BUSINESS BUREAU 20/20 INVESTIGATION, and watch that video on the web for important information about the nationwide scam that has successfully tricked millions of consumers in the USA for many years.

bbb is the must un fair organization and its all about money, and if the dont like you then its over no matter what you try to do to resolve the problem.

I had an auto shop tell me they could finance the work they did on my car, after they recommended additional work.  Then after running up the bill, they submitted my name to a third party credit agency.  That was declined, and they held my car until I could come up with the cash, which I finally did.  When i complained about their bait-and-switch to the BBB, they responded to the complaint and that was all the BBB needed to Close the Case.  They did not investigate, they did not mediate, they did not pass judgement on the merits of my complaint, they just closed the case because they had a response.  This is not what we should expect from the BBB.  They are a lap-dog of the businesses that pay them money.

If LA Fitness gets an A+ rating which is one of the most hated and most complaints received company it wouldnt surprise me BBB are crooks.

We agree with your statement about the Better Business Bureau.  Because we refuse to pay their fees, they refuse to post all the positive ratings our company has received (and we have nearly 100).  What a joke.  

I had an issue with my phone company, regarding being DOUBLE CHARGED, for services I already paid for........To avoid having my services disconnected, I simply paid them, because I ALREADY KNEW, that I would do whatever necessary to be reimbursed.......I MARCHED down to the AG office, sat for OVER an hour and DEMANDED HELP, at getting this OVER $600.00 bill, DELETED from my 'pocket'(so to speak)...........On another occasion, I BUSTED AT&T and another company(on a Saturday evening), on the phone(I made SURE, they BOTH, were on the phone, at the same time).....I informed BOTH companies, that I had made a POLICE REPORT out concerning the issue and $75.00, was deducted from my bill, (for I had the same problem, a few years BEFORE then).......This time,(just a few days ago(April, 2012), I attempted to contact Illinois/Chicago BBB, on a WALMARTS matter....I was MAILED a WALMART card, giving I $100.00 worth of FREE groceries;them asking for a credit card number, to pay for a 'processing fee'($3.95) and I would receive a WALMART'like credit card(to shop for groceries), in "3-5 business days"....I waited for those days to pass, did not receive this card in the mail, contacted them at (1-855-822-9225)(spoke FINALLY, with a Curtis Benjamin) and was told that, "the card was sent to the wrong address and that I would receive another card, in ANOTHER 7-10 business days"........In the meantime, this company has possesson of my credit card number.....I contacted the Chicago.Illinois BBB and all I got was a voice mail(even today, 04-31-2012), which confirms to I(also), that my suspiscions about Illinois AG(Lisa Madigan), IS reliable, for reasons as well as she's being SUED, for TREASON, by a Dr. Linda Shelton(pediatrician who has also been abused by the Illinois courts, with Madugans help), along with many others, who has Madigan on their problem list(as to her being a consumer advocate)..........  On another occasion, before I could inform Madigan 'clerk', of what my call to Madigans ofice was about, she (Lisa;Madigans clerk;name also Lisa), stated to I, "we don't take complaints against government officials"....That let me know, that much CORRUPTION exist, in the AGs' office, under Illinois AG, Lisa Madigans' "jurisdiction"....I also, filed a CIVIL suit in Federal court;case I WON criminally and L. Madigan sent I a letter that "50% of my winnings were going to be deducted"...Upon I disputing it, I received another letter from her, stating that she did NOT have knowledge of my winning the criminal case(which is a LIE, for 3 copies of my case HAD to go to her, BEFORE it reached the Appellate courts, for a decision)...I HAND DELIVERED those 3 copies, MYSELF, to her office, on the 12trh floor of the THompson Center, here in Chicago!...........This was an attempt to by for TIME, for I had(at ther same time), file for a ProSe atty., in another CIVIL case against an atty.(Blake Horwitz, at 20 S. Clark, Suite 500, here in Chicago), for BREACH of CONTRACT;to represent a loveone in a 'Human Rights' case for abuses on him in a mental hospital.....Upon I entering the federal office to receive an atty. to represent I(ProSe), the dates were switched for what I wa sthere for and the atty., attempted to prenend she didn't know what I was there for(mind you, I had an appointment and the attorneys are waiting for the next  apported client).....She stated to I;(handed I documents ), that my case was closed on AUGUST 30, 2010...I was NOT informed properly and I inquired about it........I filed MOTIONS(several) and I got a reply that the others, were in a STAY position, until the decison was made to what judge would reside over my case...I was then sent a letter that that MOTION, was denied and I haven't heard anything else on the other MOTIONS....NOTE:  Madigan(L.), was the person I was suing, because she acticted as the prosecuted when she was NOT eligible to do so, YET NOTHING has been doen about her corruption...On the other CIVIL case, the corrupt judge(Joseph D. Gillespie;room 1108 at the Daley Center), ruled WRONGLY for Blake Horwitz, KNOWING that Horwitz committed misconduct, BEFORE the tribulan as well as when he purjured himself with his asst. Erica Faaborg, when they BOTH LIED, saying that they did 'all they could" to help his clien who was being abused in this Chester MHC, in Chester, Illinois!.......After this SHAM 'TRIAL", all of a sudden, Gillespie was 'inactive', but I learned that he addressed a case in Oct. 2010 OR 2011.....ARDC never acknowledge Horwitz MISCONDUCT either....Intheir reply to my complaint against him, ARDC stated by letter, that, "because Horwitz has never had a complaint substantiated against him, it won't be this time either"........I addressed this compalint(in writing )to L. Madigan, as well, for I also had to submit COPIES of that case, to the Illinois AG!..........CONSUMER ADVOCATE MY ***! 

Being in a newer business (5+ years) I decided maybe I should join the BBB. I am convinced now, after several BAD experiences that the BBB is unjust and makes judgements when they know NOTHING about your business, but someone files a complaint. We had 3 complaints (in 5 years with over $3 mil in business and over 30,000 customers a year). Now you wouldn't think that would be much considering the amount of business we do and the fact that almost all of our customers are very happy. As you know, if you are a business owner, there are some people who like to try to getg something for nothing and will do it however they can which sometimes includes lying and screaming. Then there are occassionally a customer or two that are just plain in a bad mood and things didn't go the way they would have like for them to go so they complain. Well....2 out of the 3 complaints lodged through our local BBB were issues that were NOT our fault. It was perfectly clear to us and to anyone else in our type of business. So, we chose not to give away the store JUST because someone complained to the BBB. (Even though we did try to make a compromise that we really shouldn't have and weren't obliged to do). The BBB chose to close the case as unresolved and lowered our rating to a B just because of these 2 unresolved complaints! I am furious. We canceled our membership and I will do everything I can to discourage any business person who asks me from joining the BBB. I think they think they are judge and jury. How dare they lower our rating when we have been in business 5+ years and only 2 complaints! Where do they get off????. I have also noticed that SOME businesses have MANY complaints but you cannot "view" the details like you can ours. What's THAT all about??? I'm sure it has hurt our business some because there are people that go to the BBB to check out businesses. But, I am not through with them. I hope any of you other small businesses out there that have had the some issues will stand up to them. Perhaps some day they will decide to do more "homework" if they are going to judge a business based on one persons unreasonable complaint!  

the related videos on the web.

Thank You

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BANK OF AMERICA
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At least that is my nick name for BBB. I filed a complaint about how best buy don't want to fix my computer, and their response was "You should read their coverage agreement." when best buy reply to me through bbb (and of course best buy think he is right), bbb send email to me that said, "case close best buy already reply and best buy said it is your fault being a trustee customer and not read the insurance aggrement (like millions other americans)".

Well thanks a lot for nothing bbb, now i know you are nothing but big bad bulls**t created to make fat cat above the law and fatter.

PS: don't buy any insurance or buy anything from best buy, because their agreements does not cover anything, even though their sales people said so. don't do it. i warned you.

I have always heard and read stories about the "BBB" and alleged deceptive practices in regards to paid grades to business etc etc etc and it has always made sense. If you think about it, A paid company that has paid for accreditation , certainly would not continue to pay for membership if they were getting failing grades by BBB, thus its seems like an incentive for the BBB to give good grades: A-make the paid business happy B- BBB continues to receive payments ( one hand washes the other )..

  Well this month, I have had first hand experience of the BBB practices. FIRST , let me state that I am not an attorney, do not represent to be one, nor do I offer legal advice, rather, I am a consumer advocate in regards to debt collectors and collection agencies and their deceptive/illegal practices.

   I personally had a recent experience dealing with a collection agency contacting me in an attempt to collect a debt. I am extremely familiar with the laws governing fdcpa, ( fair debt collection practice act) and FCRA ( fair credit reporting act ) and what the laws require of collection agency attempting to collect alleged debts from consumers.

   This collection agency violated several of my federal rights granted to me by the FDCPA as well as my state NCFDCPA laws. I sent the collection agency certified mail/return receipt a dispute of the debt, an intent to sue on grounds they violated my rights, I notified them that I recorded telephone calls from there collection agency reps to my cell phone and have violated TCPA laws as well. They failed to honor my cease and desist request demanding the stop calling my cell phone, to which, they continued to call. When they called, they did not state the Mini Miranda at the begining of the phone calls : "this is an attempt to collect a debt, any information will be used for that purpose"..Once again, I had 100% verifiable proof of the various violations they had committed.

    I forwarded the complaint to BBB of San Diego, I sent them copies of the dunning letters the Collection agency sent me and outlined the laws and my rights that were ignored and violated. Later, the collection agency responded to the complaint with the BBB basically stating no laws were violated.

    BBB notified me of the response and asked if I had any further evidence in regards to the recording I had stated I HAD PERSONALLY recorded, to substantiate the complaint. I sent them copies of the recordings, more copies of the letters from the collection agency once again showing they failed to disclose required information...

    Today, i signed into the BBB to check the status of my complaint. I have not heard from BBB in a week when i sent them the last requested information. THEY HAVE CLOSED THE CASE, here is the exact phrasing: "The Better Business
Bureau has determined that the business made a good faith effort to
address the complaint and has now closed it"

THIS FLOORED ME - this same collection agency has over 324 complaints filed in the last 12 months which have been administratively closed . and the business has a B+ grade?  total complaints over 951 to date and B+ rating? YOU TELL ME the BBB is not getting kick backs from these businesses?

ILL NEVER trust the bbb and I will join the many thousands of others in spreading the word on there deceptive practices!

I would never have believed the BBB was anything I've read in this complaint, however I did complain about a roofing company that is referred to on this site.  The only thing BBB told me was in an email to "Watch and be very careful about this company" because they had lot os complaints.  However, we had already done business with them after they visited our home shortly after the 2010 hailstorm.  It did take lots of calls to get them to do their work, and had I known they were just unskilled workers the owner picked up from who knows where it was too late.  Now, it's highly possible we will have to retain a lawyer in cooperation with our insurance company to get the damage of their shoddy work remedied.  I still can't take away the fact that BBB at least let me know there were some problems, so my experience with them seemed to be good so far.  I plan to file a complaint, but when we used the business their score was not as high as now......strangely enough, with all the complaints filed they still rate an "A" with BBB.  If you know whom I'm referring to, you can go to his website..........lo and behold he's holding a crystal trophy showing good standing with BBB.  It's hard to know what "trust" is anymore.

All this time I have been mislead? and to think that I praised and even caught myself tellin others how the BBB had the goods on crooked businesses but they got greedy and their Karma kicked in.

I even have proof BBB removes bad remarks.

What happened was this young dentist who seemed very agressive & so happens to know it all, that I mistook that attitude for a good dentist who knows what he's doing!.......well, I was wrong. The dentist ruined my teeth while putting in crowns.  He screwed up and took out 2 to many teeth because w/out my knowing or him having the professional decency to advise me his hand was damaged, went ahead anyway & worked on me! He hid it very well only by not wearing a hand brace but he was doing alot of sweating & procrastinating. And the only wayI found out was when he finished with me, I was cleaned up and as I was leavintg the dental office I saw him at the front telling these young ladies how he broke his hand and at the same time saw him wearing a hand brace! Later at nite when I discovered the teeth missing is another story but, I went to the BBB and found bad remarks on him for bein overly aggressive with his clients on type of work and the amount of money he wanted for doing so! I took it to a lawyer 48 hours later and low and behold after warning the dentist what I did and takin it to a lawyer......the bad remarks on the dentist had suddenly disappeared? Now, this story about bad business deals with BBB explains it all! There are 3 witnesses to this situation and for your own protection, the dentist is Spring Family in Mesa, AZ    

   My experience report has not been too bad, but it depends where the BBB office is located. For instance, the BBB has helped resolve complaints where no record existed before; therefore, if the business did not respond or work things out, they received a poor grade. For some companies, that is enough to encourage them to straighten up. So one bad thing about all this exposure is they may wizen up to how to get on, but if it's a good BBB office, the initial notice and grade will help to alert people. After I had filed a complaint, however, because this one internet business was gaining clout, he essentially overwrote the grade eventually, so the point about the business being able to drown out the plaintiff is pretty much true, but it can take awhile, and if it's a serious unresolved complaint, it can be too bad. Where it gets ugly is when the BBB is set up in a metropolis that is essentially filled with cronyism. In these places, it doesn't matter if you complain or not, your complaint basically goes nowhere, because they don't care really, and because they see it as threatening their cronies (or friends, or blood ties, or whatever). And of course in the ugly space, there can be murders, but the police don't bother to investigate unless it is a high profile person; there are under the table deals, and if you ask questions, you might get banged in the head by their hit people, or else just ignored with the take-it-or-leave it attitude. So maybe the BBB shouldn't be such a localized entity; maybe it should be nationally operated with floating field representatives like the Sierra Club, and an outside firm providing regular office evaluations, so no board people whatsoever. PS. But I'm posting this because I live just in that type of metropolis where yes, there's a sense of despair about nothing happening at all if I file a complaint I have about this poorly managed financial. Where I live, appearances color everything, and I have very little doubt they will mostly just shrug their shoulders, throw up their hands, and just say that's the way things go. 

I am having nothing but issues getting a non licensed business off a site called Trust Link. My husband and  I got scammed in a home modification scam. The business called Millenium modification services took advanced fees to do a modification. They do not have a license to do this in their state and it is a class
3 felony in their state. This company uses a business called Trust Link to advertise for themselves. This service is run by the BBB of Ca(LA). When you look at the link run by the BBB it shows 4 stars and all these glowing reports. I know these reports were made by the company. I contacted Monica at the BBB and she informed me that it was the state of Florida's job to remove this company for the non license. The state of Florida to CA that they wanted all their Florida businesses removed from Trust Link. (pretty much solving this problem) CA will not remove this company. I again informed the BBB that this company does not hold a valid license to even be in business let alone take advanced fees. The first email I received was from Monica.

The profile for this company was audited and many reviews were
removed at our discretion. Unfortunately, we cannot remove entire
TrustLink profiles since they are attached to BBB records. Even though
the BBB in Florida no longer participates in TrustLink we cannot remove
profiles at this time. There is no rating shown on this company's
TrustLink profile, therefore it would be questioned by an inquiring
consumer. In the future, any new reviews that are posted may be flagged
for our audit system.

 
Thank you for sending your notification.
 
Monica
TrustLink Administration

Some of the postings from the company were removed. All the stars were kept the same. They still have 4 stars. The information about the license was NEVER mentioned on the site. I emailed again stating that the company cannot even be a valid company WITHOUT a license and it is a crime for them to even advertise the and perform this service. I then get this email from apparently a supervisor.

Thank you for emailing us. This company is located within the
service area of the BBB in Florida. We will forward your concerns to
the appropriate BBB to review their licensing status and update their
report on the company accordingly. In regards to their review, we have
a team that reviews postings for authentication. As Monica explained we
have done our best to authenticate the posted reviews. While we are
sympathetic to your circumstances and the experience you personally had
with the business, we cannot discredit the other reviews simply because
they are positive.

Ok so basically you an sell crack on a street corner and as long as people say good things about you they will promote your business? I am thinking this rating was paid for. This is clear the BBB is not there for the consumer.

 
Your review will be displayed on the company's Trustlink page for others to consider. Thank you for contacting us.


 

The Better Business Bureau may be a not for profit but they do NOT earn the $$$$ that they
bring in. They charge every business that they ask to join their click. My Uncle reported a
detailed complaint with the Better Business Bureau and the BBB glorified the Steel Building company (with an "A+" rating) when the company was clearly ripping off contractors.

Now that the steel building company went out of business and doesn't send any $$$$ to the
BBB, the BBB now washes their hands of the company. Its a little late BBB. Wake up people and do your OWN research of the company or business you are considering doing business with. The
BBB's word cannot be trusted. Its all about MONEY!!

Lincoln

I also had a very bad experience with the LA BBB.

I was ripped off by an unlicensed contractor, had proof, won a judgment with damages and had to fight to get the LA BBB to put up an accurate rating.

They were cold, uncaring, unresponsive and willfully ignorant.

I was not lazy. I worked very hard. I was organized, had all my information, had all the "proof", explained myself over and over. I even won a court case against this thug, yet the LA BBB didn't care. They didn't even want to know about it!

And you know why? Because immediately after my very serious complaint they sent him a package to invite him to become a member. They wanted his membership so they treated ME, the aggrieved one badly, instead of sincerely investigating.  I did all the work a human can possibly do but it didn't matter to them.

Don't blame the victim here. Blame the one who is dishonest and corrupt...and that is the BBB.

I just wanted to also validate this item.   Here in Michigan the BBB is also a sham.  It has completely not protected consumers.   Companies have outstanding complaints yet these are NOT listed, and the company retains A+ rating despite poor business record.

People get involved in the BBB complaint process and are stalled off for years taking no action.
Ratings are meaningless.

Do not rely on the BBB for anything ~ they are a sham here despite the whitewash video of on the news from the Ohio/SE Michigan head saying they are legit.  Don't believe it.  It is a shame, and the video shows them on "Integrity Lane" ~ what a sad joke!

Just wanted to say THANK YOU! I learned so much about BBB!  I thought about using them and this report totally changed my view.  Thank you.

I personally have filed reports on 2 companies that I know have many thousands of compamplaints.

Warranty 4 Wheels and Genuine Warranty Solutions.

Both I came to find out are owned by notorious scammers. Although they most likely get negative reports everyday Warranty 4 Wheels maintains an A+ rating. Genuine Warranty Solutions is A-.

They BBB is scamming scum.

hy Is It the BBB treats us like this the columbus ga Is just as corrupt and deceiving the public in order to protect this crooked builder who Is stealing from new home buyers and treating them wrong.

The columbus gas bbb does nothing to help the public,  or protect the public agaisnt this bad & crook builder.  They put on his record the company made a good faith record.  But the consumer remain dissatisfied.

The BBB has no power to make the business do anything.  But they do need to report the truth on how badly they handled things.  Now the BBB gives them a B,  which they don't deserve.

H&G construction deserves a F- for how bad he handled things,  because they crooks.

Before I knew about this site, which has proven to be very beneficial, I used to contact the BBB. I foolishly did not take into consideration that there might be a conflict of interest when I contacted them about a scam I experienced with one of their A+ business partners QUICKEN LOANS. QL can be found on this site and their policy of scamming people out of their $350 to $600 deposit is now well documented. In my case it was $500. So when I contacted the BBB they then contacted QL and basically washed away my complaint using the business canned response to all problems. On line one can see how many unresolved complaints are against this noxious company of predators, yet they receive an A+ RATING!!!! It is incredulous. And to think many years I respected this business, and when lodging a complaint against an advertising agency (and director) they had three discs of complaints against this person/business and did not do anything to help me or stop him. This is when I chose to change my business - as for this online conversation, thank you for the information. It has been very helpful to me personally. I am grateful. Our country now is mired down in anti-customer practices, which are dragging our country down. This is peppered throughout RIPOFF REPORTS that seem to grow daily. Business has created a zombie economy like what plagued Japan not that long ago. If we are so in debt we cannot spend then everyone suffers. One would think that people in business would figure this out?

Consider that b/c the BBB is not government run and it's a non-profit, that people may run them differently based on location. Just like you go to a McDonalds and you get a sloppy joe. And then you go to a different one and say Wow this was only a dollar? It varies unfortunately, from BBB to BBB. However, I assume that it's generally more good than bad. The BBB owners also collaborate in a board together, so assuming that most are good, they would prefer to remove the bad ones.

I work with a BBB that just kicked old management who was doing it wrong, and the people there now are the most ethical people I've ever met. The only cookie cutter businesses out there are like retail stores with similar products and impersonal processes. You will never find a service business, like the BBB is, which ALWAYS provides the best service in ALL locations. It's run by people, not robots. You'd be foolish to think otherwise.

On the flip side, the BBB does in general do its best, as a solo operation without any outside data sources, to provide information. A business can exist and not be listed with the BBB. Information given can be inaccurate, because there is no way to check other than speaking with the owner. If there was a source of information that had every bit of accurate information about businesses and WAS NOT GOVERNMENT RUN, then I would be really worried. If you want tight, federal control over our free enterprise, then demand government intervention. Otherwise, the BBB is still expanding and attempting to raise its influence so that it can afford to spend time validating information and such. Do you realize how costly it is to continually, in real-time, correct information on businesses starting, leaving, changing hands, expanding to new names, changing business types, etc etc?

Consumer reports is great and all, but it has no standards. The same ignorant person who sells you a credit repair scam will be the same ignorant person who doesn't understand a legitimate product. In the end, you have to collect your own information and resources and make a decision. And if you decide to share that knowledge with the BBB, then everyone will know about it.

Btw, if the consumer base is knowledgeable about what the BBB does, then it puts the power into BBB's hands when gaining new members. If consumers don't use it, then nobody will want BBB accreditation. Just like Google may turn up search results, but without users searching, nobody will care if their site shows up first or not.

The BBB is currently destroying our business name by releasing press releases with completely inaccurate information. They are destroying our online reputation because we refuse the pay their fee. They have cold called our business on multiple occasions and we flat out refuse to pay them any money. We, as the consumers and business owners can fight back. Here's how.

The better business bureau,  of columbus ga.  Isn't for the consumer,  they always close complaints.  This Is there, response after closing complaints.

(BBB is pleased that it has been able to be of service to you in an effort to help you resolve your complaint. BBB has determined that the business has addressed all disputed issues and made a reasonable effort and offer to resolve the complaint; however, the customer remains dissatisfied despite the business's best efforts to satisfy the customer.)

The business,  didn't even answer the complaint.  And they put on there record.  They resolved all complaints.  This Is misleading the public. 

Now when a new custormer does business with them.  They will not know,  how they treat custormers.  Until they become a new victim.  After the hardtime,  they gave me.  The business does not deserve a good response.

The problem Is the better business bureau,  Is lying & I have there e-mails to contredict everything they have reported on the business record.

So the business can,  continue to screw new victims.   All thanks to the better business bureau & the attorney general office.  And the federal trade commission.  They are all guilty,  letting these businesses get away with consumer abuse.

I have used the BBB for a contractor issue.  The contractor was a member of the BBB.  We went to arbitration and I won my case.  The contractor refused the decision even though it has been upheld by the arbitrator on 3 occassions now.  Keep in mind, this was a binding arbitration and the BBB still says they are in a fact finding mode and not making him responsible for paying even though the deadline for him doing so by the arbitrator has passed.  This is the better business bureau in Houston.  The contractor in question still has a A rating with NO COMPLAINTS!  What a SHAM!!!  I own several businesses and will NEVER join this group.  You basically buy your membership and ability to get away with anything.  Save yourself time take your complaints to the court system!!

I have worked with three BBB's in the state of Colorado over the past years and it is important for consumers to know what the BBB is and what they are not.

1.  They are not a government agency
2.  They are not a "club" that you can join just by plunking down cash.
3.  They do not have any official powers to force a business to do anything.

The truth of it about the BBB:

1.  Each BBB is an independent non-profit association of businesses committed to uphold the high-ethical standards of business put forth by the BBB national council.  By applying for accreditation with the Bureau, the business signs a statement agreeing to abide by BBB guidelines and rules in regards to advertising and business practices.  Since each office is independent, they can have slightly different accreditation standards.

2.  BBB accreditation is not "automatic".  Each applying business is reviewed for proper licensing, history of legal action, history with complaints filed with the BBB, length of time in business, etc. 

3.  A source for finding businesses that have made a pledge to uphold high standards of business practices.

4.  As source to check out existing businesses or charities. You can search for businesses online at your local BBB site and review their reliability report.  The number of claims filed against the company is clearly listed as well as the reason for the complaint and how it was resolved.  The details of the complaint are not revealed due to privacy regulations with the BBB

5.  A place to get help resolving a complaint.  When a complaint is filed, the BBB will first review the complaint to determine if it is valid, or if it falls under the guidelines of the BBB.  For example: employment disputes, disputes to complain about poor service (not performance, but service), landlord-tenant disputes are not complaints the BBB deals with.  They deal with the performance of a contract or agreement to provide products or services.  If the complaint is valid, the accreditted business is given 15 days to respond to the complaint and encouraged to either provide documentation to rebutt the complaint or to resolve the issue outside the BBB.  If that is unsuccessful, the BBB can also provide a free mediation between the business

6.  Businesses can have multiple complaints filed against them and still have a good rating with the BBB.  The Goal of the BBB is to resolve the issue.  If it is resolved, then it's not a bad mark against the company.  However, if a company has a large number of complaints in relation to it's size, it can affect their rating and ultimately their accreditation.

7.  The BBB can't help you if you were a poor consumer.  If you didn't do your homework and got scammed by a business not accreditted, there isn't much they can do other than to contact the business and request that they respond to the complaint.  Bad companies won't respond. 

8.  The BBB isn't the fox watching the hen house.  The BBB is the hen house.  It is an association of businesses trying to promote ethics in business.  They are governed by a board of local business leaders.  But they aren't the attorney general.  If you've been scammed, contact the attorney general and the BBB.  If you have a complaint about a company that is performance related that isn't a matter of fraud, then contact the BBB.

9.  Be a smart consumer.  Check company's out from many sources, including by simply googling their name before you write a check for thousands of dollars. 

Whoever wrote that "The Fox is watching the Henhouse" totally and completely understands the Better Business Bureau (BBB) and how it operates. 
My company, Business Recovery Services (BRS), assist people in their efforts to attempt to recover their hard-earned money from ill-fated home-based businesses.  You may see many of these home-based businesses on late night infomercials, where the sponsors suggest that "anyone can do the business", it's easy, anyone can do it", "you could make a lot of money", etc.  We specialize in home-based businesses, and that's we only help our clients with financial recovery from ill-fated home-based businesses.
Now, you would think that the BBB would welcome any company that attempts to assist the consumer like BRS.  Instead, the BBB has attempted to undermine BRS' efforts on many occasions.  Please visit www.businessrecoveryservices.net for undisputable proof.   When you get to the Home Page, click on the "BBB Errors - BRS Report" on the left-hand side of the Home Page, towards the bottom.  You will see clearly how the BBB attempted, and failed, to undermine the efforts of BRS.  And, the BBB has the audacity to suggest that the BBB looks out for the consumer.   I guess I now know why the name of the President of the Central Arizona BBB is Matthew Fehling.   He is called Fehling because he is failing in his job as President of the Central Arizona BBB.
In addition, the BBB was losing BRS responses to consumer complaints.   For verification, please go to www.businessrecoveryservices.net , and click on the tab entitled BRS Loses BRS Responses.   Of course, this website, www.ripoffreport.com , also documents the many, many complaints about the ethics and morals of the BBB.
So, why does the BBB appear to be on a mission to destroy the BRS reputation?   I can only speculate, but I do know that BRS is not an accredited business with the BBB . What does this mean?   Well, you cannot become an accredited business unless a business pays fees to the BBB.   So, if you dont pay, then youre rated poorly, regardless of the companys performance.   Does the BBB sound like an organization thats looking out for the consumer?   Or, does the BBB sound like an organization thats looking out for itself?
Let me demonstrate the vast rating difference when the BBB Accreditation Fee is paid.   This data is as of November 11, 2009 for Business Recovery Services (BRS), Specialty Merchandise Corporation (SMC), and Professional Marketing International (PMI).
Company                                      Number of                BBB                     BBB
Name                         State          Complaints            Rating            Accredited?
BRS                             AZ                      14                          F                          No
 
SMC                             CA                   1373                            B                           Yes
PMI                              UT                     207                           A+                       Yes
 
 
Now, does this look like a level playing field?   I think not.   For those who are in love with the BBB, please provide me with an explanation that justifies such a rating difference when the data suggests that ratings should be reversed.   For the record, both of the BBB Accredited Businesses listed above market work-at-home home-based business opportunity, similar to those that you see on late night infomercials.   As a matter of fact, SMC airs one of those late night infomercials for a work-at-home home-based business opportunity, and SMC uses Tom Bosley as a spokesman for this infomercial.
 
The BBB has earned its reputation as a dishonest, untrustworthy organization that doesnt protect consumers at all.   Rather, the BBB protects those businesses that pay these ridiculous accreditation fees in order to get a good rating.  How else do you justify a company (SMC) which has almost 100 times the number of complaints of another (BRS), yet SMC has a "B" rating while BRS has an "F" rating?
 

We own a small usiness in St Louis. The BBB has contacted us many times trying to get us to join their "club".

The fess attached to being a member of the BBB is just too much for small business owners. After all, they basically do nothing for the business except give you a plaque or sticker to show customers they belong to the BBB.

This is a false sense of hope for consumers. I really don't trust their so called ethics.

We had a client cancel her contract 3 days before her event and it states quite clearly in our contracts that if you cancel within 14 days of your event, you do not get a refund.

She called the BBB on us. We had to provide all the documents and it now has put a "black mark" on us if someone contacts the BBB inquiring about our business. We are not the ones who did wrong, but we are the ones who have to pay for this disgression that was the fault of the client, not us.

The BBB really did nothing to help us, they only reported what the client had said. The customer is not always right!

I am going to give you a little background about our experience with the BBB. We have been in business for well over 50 years. At one point, we were an A+ rated accredited business with the BBB.

Recently the BBB changed our rating to an F and revoked our membership (they probably did not get our check). Well the reason they claim our accreditation was pulled is because we 'did not respond to consumer complaints in a timely manner or at all' Frankly, this is not correct. The truth is we take all customer complaints seriously and make every effort to resolve any issues that our clients have promptly.

We have not received any notices from the BBB about these complaints that they claim were sent to us. So we did what any ethical business would do. We contacted the BBB and asked them to resend these complaints and re-open the file so that we can respond accordingly.

They re-opened the cases and our company responded to all of them promptly. The BBB closed all of the re-opened files and marked them as" resolved but not within BBB's time frame."

The BBB's time frame is 15 days from the date the complaint is made. Well, It is impossible to respond to a 15 day time frame when we never got the initial notice.

Nevertheless, I have been working tirelessly to attempt regain our rating. The BBB moved our rating from an F to B- because we responded to all of the complaints. Great we were happy and said it was better than being listed as an F.

Two days later our rating went to a C+. I was not happy, but I did not make a big deal out of it. I figured it will get better as we rebuild our relationship with them. The next day our rating dropped again to a C-. Now I was getting concerned. I have been checking our rating everyday at this point. As of Yesterday it was still a C-.

Today I was talking to one of our attorney's about our rating and to see if we could improve it. So our attorney decided that she would pull our rating up to she if she can figure out what was going on.

My jaw almost hit the ground it was a F. In one day our rating went from a C- to an F for no reason. II just don't understand how they can be allowed to do this. Just incase you were wondering this is all in a period of 2 weeks with no additional complaints from the time we were a B-.

I know that the BBB is currently being investigated by the Connecticut Attorney Generals office. I truly hope they make them correct all of the problems they have caused for all of the innocent Connecticut business' that they have harmed.

The lesson in this long complaintis simple, do not trust the BBB.

Jay
Greenwich, Connecticut

The BBB is a scam. People who join this PROFIT-making group will be sorry they did. I joined thinking it was a professional organization and it almost cost me my business.

The BBB has a horrible grading system. My location is LABBB. The LAWYERS there are horrible people who do not know how to run a business.

I would NEVER join the BBB again.

They do NOT support their clients.
They do NOT verify information.
They ONLY try to destroy people's lives!

I hope the LA BBB gets shut down! They are useless!

The following is a page we put on our website - www.aaahomerepair.com - regarding the misinformational ratings "AWARDED" by the BBB on co-operating businesses - we did NOT co=operate...




Basement Waterproofing
Estimates
Transferable warranty
Caveat emptor (beware)
FSBO
***CT BBB ripoff


***CT BBB rating ripoff
BBB - Pay for Play

4-20-2009

A customer recently asked us why we have an A- rating with the CT BBB in view of a perfect 10 year business record???

She (a CPA with anaytical thought capabilities) had searched ALL sources for information on our company and found, as advertised, NO complaints, NO failures and NO litigations - so why A-???

We had not visited the CT BBB site for some time so when we pulled up their site, CTBBB.com, we were somewhat mystified - at that point we did some checking into their self serving "rating" policy they have recently concocted (to increase their declining revenue base via a process of intimidation) and this page was drafted to address this NEW "rating" policy...

This is our response as presented to that customer and to any other potential customers with respect to these bogus, misleading, self serving the $$$ interests of the CT BBB, highly questionable and controversial ratings!!!

We got that ladies job and without "a paid for endorsement" from the CT-BBB...


--------------------------------------


AAA HOME REPAIR was established in 1999 and joined the BBB some time thereafter but decided last year not to renew our membership for 2009 (due to questionable practices on the part of the BBB and aside from, but not excluding, the issues on this page)...

Our company still appears on their site but NOT as a bought and paid for "ACCREDITED BUSINESS"...

The self serving ($$$) interests of the CT BBB, not the consumer it claims to inform and protect, is the topic on this page...

The following injected posts by others, and there are many many more, are yet another reason for our not reuping our CT BBB membership - we agree with these posts...

We do not PAY ANY reporting entity (including the CT BBB) for a "higher rating" - their "highest rating", warranted or not, is now reserved exclusively for "paying members only" of the CT BBB - it's called PAY FOR PLAY...

----------------------

The CT BBB was once a trusted indicator for consumer reference - IN OUR ESTIMATION (and that of many others) that is no longer the case - the dollar now rules at the BBB - it appears the CT State Attorney General also agrees with this obvious conclusion...

As of this posting AAA HOME REPAIR (now a non-member and therefore automatically a non-accredited business) has a BBB rating of A- with no complaints, ZERO, of any kind (Sales, Contract, Truth in Advertising, Service, Repairs, Warranty, Litigations, Failures or Product issues) after 10 years in business!!!

This attestable fact while other "accredited businesses" (on this same site) have an A+ rating, the highest rating, despite numerous and unresolved complaints??? - look for yourself (under basement waterproofing) @ CTBBB.COM - what does that suggest to you???

We would like nothing more than to once again be part of the ORIGINAL TRUSTWORTHY & ABOVE BOARD BBB SERVICE based on verifiable facts - not this current dollar grabbing marketing format which PURPOSE is to serve up to unsuspecting consumers an implied superior business by their BBB rating and the BBB's implied endorsement (of course you can only get this marketable rating if you sign up for big bucks - the BBB apparently couldn't care less what their "real time" rating is) - the bigger bucks in the CT BBB coffers overrules consumer welfare...

AAA HOME REPAIR, and many others, do not believe it is the job of the CT BBB to be in the business, and moreover the position, of rating any business other than "satisfactory" or "unsatisfactory" and posting the attestable data for any "unsatisfactory" rating...

The BBB is not qualified to "RATE" any business...

The BBB should report / list / post any "legitimate consumer complaints" or "litigations" against any company, member or not, with pertaining confirming and attestable data and stop there - BUT - also allow the business at issue to post their response on the same page as the complaint - That's how you "START WITH TRUST"...

This current rating system creates a murky ($$$ pay to play) connotation that suggests bias / favoritism / greed - therefore ANY of their reporting is rendered MOOT...

If this farce floats will they next be doing "sponsered links" - that, at least, is honest and upfront as to what it really is (PAY TO PLAY)...

Their self ordained heading "START WITH TRUST" is a paradox, ironic, pathetic and a joke...

FINAL NOTE: We have been advised that in California, where this all seems to have started, those who criticized this "RATING RIPOFF" had their rating significanty lowered thereafter - if that turns out to be the case there are a lot of advocacy "pro bono" attorneys out there in the wings (we would like to hear from any interested in this issue) - it may also be of interest to the CT State Attorney General to bump this up to another level - we will all see what happens / as much as the BBB might wish, and be waiting for, we don't think this is going to die on the vine / at least not if we can help it - nothing ventured, nothing gained - AAA HOME REPAIR IS GAME!!!



by, Jack Cimino
owner, AAA HOME REPAIR
Danbury, Ct.
CT lic HIC #578992
www.aaahomerepair.com
www.waterproofingdanburyct.com

Established 1999 - 10 years with no complaints, no failures or no litigations...
and that warrants an A-???

What's your opinion on that???

if you wish to comment (pro or con) - Email - aaahomerepair@sbcglobal.net


This BBB rating system does NOT pass the smell test

I was an executive with them and it is true that anyone can be a member as long as they pay the membership fees. No, we never checked the references, as we are database entry mostly. Their is no authority or power. It is one of the oldest facades in history. You are invited in as a select business, when in fact only your money matters.
We do not stay current on these companies, unless they renew their database inclusion. Do Not use them for an accurate test of trustworthiness as they are untrustworthy themselves. That is why I left and never looked back.

When I filed a complaint against First Data for Fraud this month with the BBB, I was impressed at first with how quickly that they actually got First Data to respond to my complaint. I quickly became saddened when First Data's presidential unit had responed to my complaint by referring me back to First Data's legal Department. First Data's legal department has ignored me for over 6 months, and I have been trying to negotiate with them for over a year. My home is now facing foreclosure because their criminal activities that destroyed me, my credit and my businesses. My duplex is foreclosure also, and my electric was shutoff on my home last week (
(on the coldest night of the year, thanks FPL), and my electric was shutoff on my business today... I have been a victim of FIrst Data for over two years now, they are a truly horrible entity, and the BBB should report them as such, also if the BBB would merge the reports of this companies ratings from all First Data's subsidiaries and aliases, their companies rating would be a Z minus.

I got a very similar response from the BBB that they felt that the company answered my complaint by referring me back to their legal department. This is not a resolution... this is a lawsuit... I do have an attorney now, so wish me luck, looking forward to my days in court.

My rating for First Data (and their subsidiaries involved in the crimes against me) is dissatisfactory, please report appropriately.

If the BBB reports handling of my criminal complaint and request for damages resolution as being addressed properly againt my charges of criminal activity and gross negligence, fraud, forgery, slander of credit, etc... then people should not trust the ratings of businesses by the BBB. Stick to ripoff report for the truth about companies in America...live and uncensored.... Thanks Ripoff Report.

The better business bureau Is commiting fraud, buy reporting false information & misleading the public.

They are reporting that the company answered the complaint & making a good faith effort.

The better business bureau Is reporting the business has resolved the complaint when they didn't.

So when people check up on the business, they will see the BBB Is reporting good information that the company Is good @ resolving complaints.

Then when they do business with the company, they are new victims that the company has taken advantage of, due to the BBB reporting false information.

The BBB Is not doing there jobs In protecting the people from bad businesses, this Is what the columbus georgia BBB Is doing.

There isn't no telling how many more victims due to there false & misleading information.

John you are the lying deadbeat fraud, you have alot of nerve to say the things you do. Well you don't scare me buy calling me a fraud or deadbeat because I am not those are lies coming from your mouth.

You need to stop going around spreading lies about people, because what you say don't bother me or scare me & I do not lose any sleep @ night because I know there not true.

The better business bureau of columbus does suck they give good ratings to bad businesses who don't deserve them.

They are misleading the public so the bad business can continue to victimize more victims, just like how you are victimizing people on this site.

I know nothing you say Is true anyways, so It don't bother me nor do I lose any sleep @ night.

They know you are a proven deadbeat lying fraud.
When are you going to stop stealing?
When are you finally going to leave us like you promised in your fraudulent schneider report and prove that it really isn't a lie?

The columbus georgia better business bureau Is the worst of the worst out of all the better business bureau. They do not allow you to send In your rebuttal to tell your side of the story.

They just state the business made a good faith effort to resolve the complaint, then they give a good rating to the business which does not deserve a good rating.

Why would the bbb do this give positive ratings & good ratings to businesses who don't deserve It.

What the columbus BBB Is doing Is corrupt & criminal. Know people will not know the history of the business how they handle complaints because the BBB Is protecting them.

So the business can victimize more people.

In case you did not know, a consumer can complain on customer service issues. if you got in a fight with the consumer then they have ever right to do so!

Second the bbb asks for all consumer to talk to the business before and if your friend would have worked with the bbb on the complaint from his ex wife, i know for a fact that it would have been taken care of.

I have 2 complaints on me through the BBB , in 7 years of business, and both times they were fraudulent charge backs. The credit card company sided with me as they kept their order but tried to do a chargeback. I got into an argument with both customers and they retaliated by filing a complaint with bbb , I was not at fault at all but am the victim of false complaints so don't always believe what you read.

My friend has a complaint too but that one was done by her boyfriends ex wife and she was NEVER a customer of her store so let me tell you guys right now, the BBB does not care if the complaint is true or not they just put it up.

There are innocent store owners out there.

The business only hurts itself when they don't respond to complaints or help try to resolve them.

When the business starts out accusing the complainant of slandering them I don't believe the business Its only because of what businesses & people have put me threw Is why I will only believe the complainant.

I operate a 501c3 non-profit organization and was approached by the BBB and asked to join, they told me that Table Talk Ministries was just the type of organization that they would like to have in the BBB, and for 4 or 5 hundred dollars I could join. So, I asked the gal, just what does my organization do? She had no idea, I asked, then how do you know it's the type of organization you would like on your board? She hung up.

I got a few more similar calls from them and several junk mail items. I can't put much stock in something that claims to be a consumer advocate, but all you need to be a member is cash.

Bill ****
Founder
Table Talk Foundation for Better Living Inc.

Better business bureau are crooks. They protect the business & report false information that the business made a attempt to resolve the complaint & they didn't do nothing accept denied everything & told the BBB I was wrong.

They are the fox guarding the hen house know the BBBs will not even send your rebuttal to the business.

The business always gets there way, you can make a complaint here but the business will send people to harass you & public ridcule.

Its best victims report there experince on this website you will get publicly ridcule Its best you do get publicly ridcule to save the next person, your life might be ruined but you don't want this to happen to somebody else.

I also complained about a business that ripped me off..my complaint was ignored and I was called a liar and scam artist by the company in question and when I provided proof of my claim to the BBB I received a letter from the BBB saying they were unable to get the company to do the right thing..I was soo angry I threw my letter away and told the owner of the company to stick my stolen money up his a**..I went back a few years later and imagine my surprise when I found that company had received a good rating from the BBB stating they resolved all their complaints..except one: mine..but made an attempt to resolve the complaint and I refused..that was such a lie they never attempted anything except to call me names..when I emailed the BBB about this false statement they denied sending me a letter..said they never would do such a thing stupid me for not keeping the d**n thing..as far as I am concerned the BBB are crooks too!

I also complained about a business that ripped me off..my complaint was ignored and I was called a liar and scam artist by the company in question and when I provided proof of my claim to the BBB I received a letter from the BBB saying they were unable to get the company to do the right thing..I was soo angry I threw my letter away and told the owner of the company to stick my stolen money up his a**..I went back a few years later and imagine my surprise when I found that company had received a good rating from the BBB stating they resolved all their complaints..except one: mine..but made an attempt to resolve the complaint and I refused..that was such a lie they never attempted anything except to call me names..when I emailed the BBB about this false statement they denied sending me a letter..said they never would do such a thing stupid me for not keeping the d**n thing..as far as I am concerned the BBB are crooks too!

I also complained about a business that ripped me off..my complaint was ignored and I was called a liar and scam artist by the company in question and when I provided proof of my claim to the BBB I received a letter from the BBB saying they were unable to get the company to do the right thing..I was soo angry I threw my letter away and told the owner of the company to stick my stolen money up his a**..I went back a few years later and imagine my surprise when I found that company had received a good rating from the BBB stating they resolved all their complaints..except one: mine..but made an attempt to resolve the complaint and I refused..that was such a lie they never attempted anything except to call me names..when I emailed the BBB about this false statement they denied sending me a letter..said they never would do such a thing stupid me for not keeping the d**n thing..as far as I am concerned the BBB are crooks too!

I also complained about a business that ripped me off..my complaint was ignored and I was called a liar and scam artist by the company in question and when I provided proof of my claim to the BBB I received a letter from the BBB saying they were unable to get the company to do the right thing..I was soo angry I threw my letter away and told the owner of the company to stick my stolen money up his a**..I went back a few years later and imagine my surprise when I found that company had received a good rating from the BBB stating they resolved all their complaints..except one: mine..but made an attempt to resolve the complaint and I refused..that was such a lie they never attempted anything except to call me names..when I emailed the BBB about this false statement they denied sending me a letter..said they never would do such a thing stupid me for not keeping the d**n thing..as far as I am concerned the BBB are crooks too!

Better business bureau says rip-off report Is unfair to the business well poor businesses. The better business bureau doesn't let your voice be heard anymore.

The BBB closes your complaint without them sending your rebuttal to the business. The business has the last say not the consumer.

Then the BBB will lie saying the business made every reasonable effort to resolve my complaint.

I have saved all my complaints I received from the BBB & I can prove the business did not resolve my complaint!.

I have decided not to file a complaint with the BBB anymore Its a waste of time nothing postive comes out for us the consumer only the bad business can have the last saying.

All the business did was lie about what happen anyways they did not take any responsibilty for there actions or how they have cheated me out of my money.

Its funny If you owe money to the business they make sure they get there money, but If they owe us anything. It Is world war 3 a never ending war!.

Better business bureau says rip-off report Is unfair to the business well poor businesses. The better business bureau doesn't let your voice be heard anymore.

The BBB closes your complaint without them sending your rebuttal to the business. The business has the last say not the consumer.

Then the BBB will lie saying the business made every reasonable effort to resolve my complaint.

I have saved all my complaints I received from the BBB & I can prove the business did not resolve my complaint!.

I have decided not to file a complaint with the BBB anymore Its a waste of time nothing postive comes out for us the consumer only the bad business can have the last saying.

All the business did was lie about what happen anyways they did not take any responsibilty for there actions or how they have cheated me out of my money.

Its funny If you owe money to the business they make sure they get there money, but If they owe us anything. It Is world war 3 a never ending war!.

Better business bureau says rip-off report Is unfair to the business well poor businesses. The better business bureau doesn't let your voice be heard anymore.

The BBB closes your complaint without them sending your rebuttal to the business. The business has the last say not the consumer.

Then the BBB will lie saying the business made every reasonable effort to resolve my complaint.

I have saved all my complaints I received from the BBB & I can prove the business did not resolve my complaint!.

I have decided not to file a complaint with the BBB anymore Its a waste of time nothing postive comes out for us the consumer only the bad business can have the last saying.

All the business did was lie about what happen anyways they did not take any responsibilty for there actions or how they have cheated me out of my money.

Its funny If you owe money to the business they make sure they get there money, but If they owe us anything. It Is world war 3 a never ending war!.

Rip-off report doesn't protect bad businesses. The only bad part about rip-off report some people abuse this site & sense rip-off report doesn't remove complaints.

People can file false reports agaisnt anyone out of meaness. So this gives the bullies a chance to abuse that sense rip-off report doesn't remove complaints.

People are really abusing this & they can get away with posting agaisnt innocent people, just to get back @ them.

I have had someone write a report about me, it was just someone who responded to one of my complaints that I didn't take any crap of them.

I have moved on because none of It was true In the report but some people might believe that stuff was said about me but I don't care who believes It.

If people wanna believe It that Is there right . If people think I am a cronic complainer then go ahead I am a ticked of consumer who Is fed up with being cheated from bad businesses.

All better business bureau sucks. The businesses always gets there way, the BBB doesn't let you send In your rebuttal anymore. The BBB says they don't take sides well they do take sides.

Here Is what they said with my complaint.


BBB is pleased that it has been able to be of service to you in an effort to help you resolve your complaint. BBB has determined that the business has addressed all disputed issues and made a reasonable effort and offer to resolve the complaint; however, the customer remains dissatisfied despite the business's best efforts to satisfy the customer.

The BBB did not even send In my rebuttal they just closed It saying the business made a reasonable effort & offer to resolve the complaint. The business didn't do nothing.

Nothing positive comes from filing complaints for us consumers, only negative. It always comes in favor of the business & the BBB makes the consumer look bad!.

I too was victimized by a local moving company and thrilled when I discovered that they were affiliated with the BBB. I couldn't wait to rattle the company's cage. My initial impression of the BBB (Connecticut chapter) was relatively good. Then again, I was under the impression that they were on the side of the consumer. Boy was I wrong. As stated by the author of this complaints, "What the BBB does, is give the business that is being reported the opportunity to respond. If the business responds many times this is enough to give the business a satisfactory rating, no matter what their response is!" This couldn't be more true. The particular company that robbed me (literally) had more complaints filed against them than any other. Shame on me for not checking with the BBB before employing their services. Unfortunately, now I know that it would have done me no good anyhow. They still had a SATISFACTORY RATING (with the highest number of complaints). My complaint happened to be "Administratively closed." I was not asked for much input. I assumed that the BBB was doing their job in investigating my complaint. I am now aware that they were not doing a d**n thing. Actually, they're are doing something. They're sitting on their fat a**es and collecting membership dues. What a great service available to consumers. Isn't it?

Look, I work at the BBB. I can tell you that while this organization has a admirable cause, you realy haev to sk yourslef what their cause is. The BBB presents themselves to you in the manner that you want to hear. Much like the typical politician. If you are a consumer with a problem, well then they are just the people to call because they look out for you. If you are a business owner they tell you that they are pro-business and founded on the concept of self-regulation. So, how can they be pro-consumer and pro-business? They can't. They will tell you that the accredited businesses support honesty and integrity in the marketplace and this allows the BBB to educate the consumers. Here's all the stuff they don't tell you.

1. If you become accredited, you INCREASE your chances of having complaints filed against you. Once consumers know of your affiliation they are more liekly to file a complaint with the BBB.
2. The BBB keeps complaints on file well PAST the 36 months like they tell you. It just isn't available for consumers to see on the company reliability report.
3. If you own a business they will tell you how many inquiries you've had or referrals you've had. You are being fed a line of BS. The referral number is the exact same for every accredited business in your category.
4. The system is designed so that if you don't pay the dues you can't get as high of a rating as someone who does. A business really is paying for a rating. Watch out for letter ratings as an A reating simly could mean they are accredited.
5. The BBB claims they resolve 80% of consumer complaints. LIE! What they don't tell you is that the majority are considered "RESOLVED" becaus the complaining party didn;t respond to the business rebuttal. Often times, email addresses are bad. mail is returned, etc. and no one at the BBB will try to physically contact the complainant to verify their contact information.
6. The BBB will go out of their way to make sure their accredited business complaints are closed in a positive manner. This is not done for non-accredited businesses. If a cmplaint is filed and the non accredited business is sent an email (email address supplied by the consumer) and the email fails, the complaint is closed as unable to locate. This is a negative for the business.
7. Do you have any idea how many complaints are asked to be re-opened becuase the BBB closed a complaint and one of the parties wasn't notified.
8. And don't get me started on the sales staff. I have heard them tell business owners the largest bunch of bs I have ever heard.
9. The BBB spends alot of time trying to figure out how to attract businesses to become accredited to increase their income and pad their own coffers.
10. Accreditation means nothing. Prior to Octiber 2007 these same "accredited businesses" were members. The BBB just changed the name because they didn;t want to reflect that a business can just pay dues to be affiliated with the BBB.
11. Think they actually perform background checks. Think again. Company pays their dues to the BBB and they are in. The only time a question will arise is if they see something on the company website they don't like. The BBB accuses honest businesses of being shady even if they have done nothing wrong its just a feeling that someone gets.

Stay away from the BBB. Consumers should use Angie's List. At least they are funded by consumers. Businesses should join the Chamber

All the company has to do Is like about your claim. This Is what businesses do on this site to protect themselves. The BBB has lost my trust & credibility.

The BBB sides with businesses rather they are paying member's or not, so they can continue to victimize more custormer's.

I had a problem with a moving company called Transglobal for breach of contract. In the middle of moving overseas, the last thing you want to be hassled with is a shady moving company (see other reports about Transglobal on movingscam.org). Needless to say, I went through the process of filing a complaint with the BBB in Florida and they sided with Transglobal since they were a member. Transglobal outright lied on their rebuttal to my claim and the BBB supported the lies. What made it worse for me is I felt that the BBB was so insensitive to my case. It was almost like they sent computer generated letters to me without ever really looking into my case. What was worse is the the moving company got away with their crooked dealings and they were able to move on to take advantage of others. The good news is for me, that my situation didn't turn out as bad as some other folks stories I read about on Movingscam.com. Some people have lost all their belongings dealing with Transglobal. Mine just never got picked up since the moving company decided not to show up without notice on moving day. I was asking for reimbursement for last minute expenses to change plans ($5,000+ for last minute changes), which Transglobal refused to pay and I basically got stuck with the bill. It makes sense that the BBB will side with who pays the membership dues. The consumer doesn't pay so why would they support our claims? After this happened, I don't even consider what the BBB has to say about a Company. BBB lost all credibility with me. Even as a current business owner, I will never join the BBB due to this experience. I look to RipoffReport.com first. At least I can get the truth on this site. Thank God for Ripoffreport.com and movingscam.org!

All the better business bureau are jokes. When you don't accept the response from the business the BBB closes It saying the business made a good faith effort to resolve the complaint when they didn't.

The BBB will lie to you & report false information on the companies BBB record to mislead the public. It Is nothing positve for us only for the company. So the company can continue to victimize & abuse new custormers.

The BBB gives good rating's to companies who don't deserve It, the BBB makes the consumer look bad buy falsely reporting the consumer did not accept there good offer when the business didn't over anything or resolve anything.

The better business bureau also report's the company has resolved complaint's when they haven't. The BBB say's they don't take side's but after my experince they do take sides.

The better business bureau are business advocate's not for the consumer I have been set aside buy the BBB to much & I am tired of my voice not being heard!. The business lies to the BBB to make you bad this Is what the real problem Is!.

Nothing postive comes out of filing complaint's with the BBB for us the consumer. Consumer agencies do nothing to help protect us from bad business they should act on 1 complaint so new custormer's want be taken advantage of again!.

But has you see nothing Is being done to help us.

I filed a complaint against the Credit Bureau Experts for ripping me off with the Florida BBB and my complaint received responses from this firm, however, most of their responses were without factual information. I called the Southeast Bureau of the BBB and was told that this firm is not a member and therefore they could do nothing for me. This is a joke, they rate this firm as a B but are unwilling to make this firm do that right thing, and on the site when you pull up the report on this firm their listing is statistical with no information on what the nature of the complaints were or what their outcome was. The BBB protects business and not the consumer, it would be best that they rename their enity and call themselves the Business Advocate, because that is what they do, they side with the business when they know the business is clearly wrong. It's a joke. No real good can come from filing a report with the BBB because they are business advocates not consumer as they make us believe.

I agree with Joshy. Most of the people that are upset with the BBB don't know how the BBB operates and what our purpose is. I feel like most of the people are upset because they didn't get what they wanted or are a business with a negative report.

I currently work for the BBB and handle all of the complaints for are service area. I'm not going to tell you that the BBB is perfect and can help every consumer. But I know in our office, and we are a smaller bureau, we try extremely hard to help everyone we can.

It is very difficult to remain a neutral party. We frequently get the he said she said complaints. The consumer is telling us one thing and the business another. Well, as a neutral party we don't decide who we think is telling the truth. If it comes to that, that is for a court to decide. You get what you pay for people. It is a FREE service to the public. If you are unhappy with the results you can go to small claims court or hire an attorney or seek some other means to resolve your issue.

And for those consumers that are unhappy about us closing a case as Administratively Judged Resolved, what would you propose we close it as? We are not saying it is resolved because it is not. But if we close it as unresolved with no other explanation that is unfair to the business. The same goes for businesses that respond to complaints but are upset when the report still shows a complaint. I've had businesses call me and complain that they have a satisfactory rating.

We obviously aren't going to please everyone. But if people took the time to understand our process it might eliminate a lot the anger. Our website states the type of complaints that we can and can't handle but I frequently get complaints for employment disputes. Which by the way are handled by the Department of Labor. We get complaints about everything under the sun and unfortunately can't deal with everything under the sun. We have consumers file complaints about a businesses return policy or employment standards. I'm sorry people its not unethical to have a return policy and to stick to it. If you don't like the way a company does business don't do business with them.

And for those of you who think we make the consumer look bad... We send a form to every consumer before closing a case. If you don't return it, we don't know what you are thinking. We are doing our part, you have to do yours. Same goes for the people calling in and we can't find a report on the company you are looking for. If you don't know the name of the company or where they are located or their phone number I don't know how you expect us to give you accurate information.

I can't speak for every bureau, but I know ours treats Accredited Business (members) just the same as non-members. In the short time that I have been here we have removed several businesses from membership for not responding to complaints. I have many non-members that I deal with on a regular basis and like dealing with them just as much as a member. They are curteous and responsive.

Also the BBB is not equipped to handle every complaint that we receive. There are a large number of goverment agencies for a reason. They each specialize in providing a certain type of service. Since the BBB is not a government agency it can't handle legal issues. If someone committed a crime you should call the police not the BBB. Or report it to the Attorney General's Office it is there for a reason.

So maybe the BBB isn't perfect, but I don't know a single business that is. Some bureaus may be better than others. But I think the majority of things people are complaining about are the exceptions not the rule. We get numerous calls daily about very obvious scams that people think are legit and try and steer them away from those. We can't help everyone but we help a lot of people. If you don't like the BBB don't use it, that is your option. But I think some people are speaking without knowing the facts.

The better business bureau is not consumer friendly they are business friendly. After each complaint is resolved they put consumer failed to response or did not except the business great officer.

This is how the better business bureau make consumers look bad.

To the ex-employee,

I see your point, at first glance it would appear as if it were 'all about the money'. However, the key word here is 'non-profit', therefore to pay for services that consumers are offered by the BBB for free, their employees, equipment and supplies there has to be some money coming into the organization.

So to say that a non-profit organization is all about the money is like saying that all other non-profit organization are all about the money. But guess how they get their money to fund their cause? You guessed it! Through 'telemarketing' and other means. Sure, there's donations and possibly government funding, but that would not be enough to maintain the operation of that particular organization.

To all of you out there I must tell you that although this person is a 'telemarketer' they do not deal with complaints. So when a company is sold a membership from the BBB, the bureau then investigates, to the best of their ability, the company to see if they have had any negative feedback from consumers and/or businesses. This 'telemarketer' also does not dispute the fact that they were getting paid. Ex-employee please shed some light on WHY you are an ex-employee. Is it because you were bothered by how the BBB sold membership to businesses? Or is there a different side to the story?

I would also like to comment on the misconceptions of the Bureau. It has been commented on beautifully before, but time and time again the BBB has informed consumers that they cannot force a response from a company nor guarantee a resolution.

I understand the consumers' frustration in settling a matter, however when the outcome is not favorable on their part, immediately it's the Better Business Bureau's fault for not following through.

Well what the ripoffreport does not tell you is that some of the complaintants do not tell you the whole story. The Bureau is unbiased and does not judge the consumer or business...so the consumer could be outright lying about the whole matter and yet the business has to respond and try to rectify the situation. What the ripoffreport does not tell you is that some complainants, and I bet there are few who have blamed the Bureau for not 'resolving' their dispute, is that some consumer do not read their contracts, card holder agreements, the inserts that contain changes in company policies that are mailed with their statements. They do not take time to make a decision but instead go ahead with a 'too-good-to-be-true' offer. There are even some that do not review the reliability reports before making a purchase, but then afterward point out the number of complaints the company has. Yes, the BBB does not have a report on every company, so it's up to the consumer to do their homework and do research. No, they don't want to do that...but if anything goes wrong, it's somehow NOT the consumer's fault. There are some complainants that were offered services, used the services for awhile and then file a complaint of dissatisfaction and then want 100% refund.

If you spent time and effort providing a service to someone are you willing to give them 100% back of that money that was given despite the labor that was involved? Then you have the constant complainers, now these are people who will complain over $.10 or only get 5 chicken rings when you should have received 6, or complain that a saleperson 'rolled their eyes' at you so now you want to complain about the pain and aggravation you experienced. So when the company apologizes and but respectully declines a resolution....the consumer yells 'IT'S THE BBB'S FAULT'. And yet those consumers who have serious complaints have time taken awat from them that could be spent helping them with their complaint, but to be fair the BBB has to deal with Mr. $.10.

Also these consumers do not have ANY empathy for the employees of the Bureau who,on daily basis, have to hear the horror stories of, console and assist consumers who both have serious or non-serious complaints. They call/email to yell at the Bureau for not doing anything for them. Unfortunately, at times,the BBB cannot help them. If the Bureau had all the answers, we would not need government agencies, we would be able to 'shut down' and sue business. But instead of moving on and finding another source of help, consumer's come to the ripoffreport.com and complain again.

For all the businesses that complain about the BBB, they are usually the ones that DO NOT respond to complaints. They are quick to say they have NEVER had an unhappy consumer. To me that would seem that you really don't have a lot of business transactions. Let's all face it! We do not live in a perfect work, it's full of liars, scammers, and dishonest people, so in your lifetime you will either complain or be complained against, simple as that.

Oh! And if you feel that the BBB is not a threat to businesses tell me why do consumers continue to the Bureau for help. It's odd that the complainers on ripoff report seem to know NOTHING about the complaint process and the Bureau can or cannot do. but all of sudden they have a world of knowledge of what they DON'T offer. They SEARCH for similiar complaints on the website, they set up and respond to forums I have a hunch that if you were to view THEIR entire complaint, you would see that they did the same thing with a business the consumer had previously dealt with. no searching or investigating beforehand. but sure to complain afterward. Do you homework people and except you mistakes!

I once worked for the western washington bbb selling memberships as a telemarketer, although the bbb does not like that word (telemarketer) thats exactly what we were. They had us calling businesses, and part of the script we used was a complete lie. We told business owners that we were recieving calls of interest about their companies (a total lie) the bbb paid a good commission of 45 to 55%.It is all about money. If the bbb has no ethics, then how is it that their membership does. From what I know I would avoid companies that belong.

I was a consumer affairs proffessional when the BBB went locally to charging for taking complaints. They do not report on their members so it is like a shakedown to businesses so as to avoid having a dossier built on them. Similar to trends nationally our jurisdiction has eliminated the position formerly engaged as a consumer advocate.

On the state level actions don't get consideration unless they have class recovery potential. That recovery is then funneled into state programs rather than victims here. In a word Buyer Beware!

The time has come for for consumer clearing houses with the clout of Credit Bureaus. Just like the credit bureaus exclude natural persons from the economy. Artificial persons (corporations) could be excluded from juridictions on the basis of predatory practices.

Tell your friends about the effective of this BBB, it is essential for consumers to get active about our economy before it is co-opted entirely by special interests.

YET ANOTHER REASON THE BBB IS A SCAM AND IMPOTENT!!!
I contacted the BBB of Cleveland about a Debt Collection Company called TekCollect. In Colorado, where I live, they have to list a web site address on letters and didn't.

Here's the rub:
Agree with me that all BBB-related company complaints are either torts or crimes. Crimes are against the law, torts are financially injuring someone. So, "legal matters" are the whole reason the BBB is in business, right? WRONG!

They are there to make member companies look 'better' than non-members for the same reason that RipOffReport accuses them of: "Properly addressed complaints with good faith to resolve" boost your score, even when this dog-screws the consumer!

When the BBB, already accepting my complaint, got the company's 'we have stopped collecting and this stupid jerk is just making waves for us' response - which by the way responded to NONE of my complaints - I filed another, providing the Colorado Legal Code to prove their response was a lie.

They promptly dismissed my claim as "we do not mediate legal matters". If every matter is eventually a legal matter by definition, what good are BBB's? NONE!

Further, I pointed them to the BBB Ripoff Report and told them they were admitting complete impotence! They advised me via email to stop contacting them for any reason. BACH, BACH, BACH! Funny thing about that little white top on chicken poop... (that's chicken poop too!)

I am the owner of a small real estate & mortgage brokerage - and by the way I love that Broker Book RipOff sells! he's dead on that 90% of us WILL rip you off, lie, cheat and steal your money! - and I REFUSE to use the BBB because:

1) I won't pay for an impotent organization that will just cause me trouble;
2) I won't financially support a legalized scam;
3) I won't pay for the financial terrorism bounty they want, "join us or you aren't an honest company";
4) I won't pay for a company that WORKS FOR THE BUSINESSES but claims to represent CONSUMERS; and,
5) Companies who do the right thing SHOULDN"T need a BBB - but that doesn't mean REAL watchdogs aren't needed!

PS: BBB's, don't like my response? READ THE FIRST AMMENDMENT!

YET ANOTHER REASON THE BBB IS A SCAM AND IMPOTENT!!!
I contacted the BBB of Cleveland about a Debt Collection Company called TekCollect. In Colorado, where I live, they have to list a web site address on letters and didn't.

Here's the rub:
Agree with me that all BBB-related company complaints are either torts or crimes. Crimes are against the law, torts are financially injuring someone. So, "legal matters" are the whole reason the BBB is in business, right? WRONG!

They are there to make member companies look 'better' than non-members for the same reason that RipOffReport accuses them of: "Properly addressed complaints with good faith to resolve" boost your score, even when this dog-screws the consumer!

When the BBB, already accepting my complaint, got the company's 'we have stopped collecting and this stupid jerk is just making waves for us' response - which by the way responded to NONE of my complaints - I filed another, providing the Colorado Legal Code to prove their response was a lie.

They promptly dismissed my claim as "we do not mediate legal matters". If every matter is eventually a legal matter by definition, what good are BBB's? NONE!

Further, I pointed them to the BBB Ripoff Report and told them they were admitting complete impotence! They advised me via email to stop contacting them for any reason. BACH, BACH, BACH! Funny thing about that little white top on chicken poop... (that's chicken poop too!)

I am the owner of a small real estate & mortgage brokerage - and by the way I love that Broker Book RipOff sells! he's dead on that 90% of us WILL rip you off, lie, cheat and steal your money! - and I REFUSE to use the BBB because:

1) I won't pay for an impotent organization that will just cause me trouble;
2) I won't financially support a legalized scam;
3) I won't pay for the financial terrorism bounty they want, "join us or you aren't an honest company";
4) I won't pay for a company that WORKS FOR THE BUSINESSES but claims to represent CONSUMERS; and,
5) Companies who do the right thing SHOULDN"T need a BBB - but that doesn't mean REAL watchdogs aren't needed!

PS: BBB's, don't like my response? READ THE FIRST AMMENDMENT!

YET ANOTHER REASON THE BBB IS A SCAM AND IMPOTENT!!!
I contacted the BBB of Cleveland about a Debt Collection Company called TekCollect. In Colorado, where I live, they have to list a web site address on letters and didn't.

Here's the rub:
Agree with me that all BBB-related company complaints are either torts or crimes. Crimes are against the law, torts are financially injuring someone. So, "legal matters" are the whole reason the BBB is in business, right? WRONG!

They are there to make member companies look 'better' than non-members for the same reason that RipOffReport accuses them of: "Properly addressed complaints with good faith to resolve" boost your score, even when this dog-screws the consumer!

When the BBB, already accepting my complaint, got the company's 'we have stopped collecting and this stupid jerk is just making waves for us' response - which by the way responded to NONE of my complaints - I filed another, providing the Colorado Legal Code to prove their response was a lie.

They promptly dismissed my claim as "we do not mediate legal matters". If every matter is eventually a legal matter by definition, what good are BBB's? NONE!

Further, I pointed them to the BBB Ripoff Report and told them they were admitting complete impotence! They advised me via email to stop contacting them for any reason. BACH, BACH, BACH! Funny thing about that little white top on chicken poop... (that's chicken poop too!)

I am the owner of a small real estate & mortgage brokerage - and by the way I love that Broker Book RipOff sells! he's dead on that 90% of us WILL rip you off, lie, cheat and steal your money! - and I REFUSE to use the BBB because:

1) I won't pay for an impotent organization that will just cause me trouble;
2) I won't financially support a legalized scam;
3) I won't pay for the financial terrorism bounty they want, "join us or you aren't an honest company";
4) I won't pay for a company that WORKS FOR THE BUSINESSES but claims to represent CONSUMERS; and,
5) Companies who do the right thing SHOULDN"T need a BBB - but that doesn't mean REAL watchdogs aren't needed!

PS: BBB's, don't like my response? READ THE FIRST AMMENDMENT!

YET ANOTHER REASON THE BBB IS A SCAM AND IMPOTENT!!!
I contacted the BBB of Cleveland about a Debt Collection Company called TekCollect. In Colorado, where I live, they have to list a web site address on letters and didn't.

Here's the rub:
Agree with me that all BBB-related company complaints are either torts or crimes. Crimes are against the law, torts are financially injuring someone. So, "legal matters" are the whole reason the BBB is in business, right? WRONG!

They are there to make member companies look 'better' than non-members for the same reason that RipOffReport accuses them of: "Properly addressed complaints with good faith to resolve" boost your score, even when this dog-screws the consumer!

When the BBB, already accepting my complaint, got the company's 'we have stopped collecting and this stupid jerk is just making waves for us' response - which by the way responded to NONE of my complaints - I filed another, providing the Colorado Legal Code to prove their response was a lie.

They promptly dismissed my claim as "we do not mediate legal matters". If every matter is eventually a legal matter by definition, what good are BBB's? NONE!

Further, I pointed them to the BBB Ripoff Report and told them they were admitting complete impotence! They advised me via email to stop contacting them for any reason. BACH, BACH, BACH! Funny thing about that little white top on chicken poop... (that's chicken poop too!)

I am the owner of a small real estate & mortgage brokerage - and by the way I love that Broker Book RipOff sells! he's dead on that 90% of us WILL rip you off, lie, cheat and steal your money! - and I REFUSE to use the BBB because:

1) I won't pay for an impotent organization that will just cause me trouble;
2) I won't financially support a legalized scam;
3) I won't pay for the financial terrorism bounty they want, "join us or you aren't an honest company";
4) I won't pay for a company that WORKS FOR THE BUSINESSES but claims to represent CONSUMERS; and,
5) Companies who do the right thing SHOULDN"T need a BBB - but that doesn't mean REAL watchdogs aren't needed!

PS: BBB's, don't like my response? READ THE FIRST AMMENDMENT!

I have read your comparison and understand the point you are trying to make, but don't feel it appropriately fits in relation to a BBB.

I see why you would think that since I was a President of a BBB that people would do whatever I said and made sure they did a good job when I was paying attention to something. The problem with the logic is that every BBB has some sort of system(s) where layers of administrators check disputes to make sure they are being as thoroughly worked as possible. It is almost never a process in which a dispute handler makes a decision and the dispute falls into a file drawer never to see the light of day again.

Example, when I used to be a dispute specialist in a mid to large sized bureau after I worked a dispute it was turned over to a manager for review. This manager made sure they agreed with the result and that in their opinion no further investigation was needed. Finally, the dispute was sent to a case manager for review. These final sets of eyes were individuals who specialized in certain fields. Thus, I might have handled a dispute regarding a car dealership and thought that the answer provided by the business was satisfactory. However, when this person with a detailed knowledge of how dealerships are supposed to work reviewed the case, they may find a point that needed to be clarified or re-worked to truly find the best resolution.

Not all BBBs have, or for that matter, can afford to have this many people to review casework. Fortunately though, in a smaller BBB the President of the organization will review many, if not all disputes and their resolutions to ensure everything possible was done. You may even get better results in smaller BBBs as first they usually receive fewer disputes and can give each one more attention. But also, the handlers know that someone will more then likely be paying attention to the dispute and their work on it. Thus, it just wouldn't make sense to rush through something if it's just going to come back to your desk anyway.

Again folks, I know not every BBB has done everything perfectly all the time. I just think that if this issue is looked at with a fair eye, there is no way that it can be said a BBB does more harm then good. Remember, the BBB does not cause the core problem that a person is dealing with. When a dispute is filed they try to work a resolution with a company that at the end of the day has no real obligation to answer them. When you cast these issues in that light, I think you would have to agree that if their services help even one person, that they should not be besmirched as they are on this website.

I remember a Top Detroit Executive claiming that Detroit built cars as good as, and often better than, the Japanese car companies built. [Now Consumer Reports' reliability data show otherwise, but let us continue...]

Did this Top Detroit Executive issue a ra-ra lie? Maybe not. He did drive his company's product. So, what might explain this?

Well, Mr. Top Exec's car would be ordered through company channels, which provided him a good discount as one of his employee benefits. All other 'professional' employees have a similar employee benefit.

Funny thing, the FACTORY MANAGER where that car would be built would KNOW that a specific car was to be built for Mr. Top Exec.

Problem: What would happen to the FACTORY MANAGER if the car built for Mr. Top Exec had significant, or even minor, quality problems? Can you spell "unemployment"?

Problem Solution: The FACTORY MANAGER would have his manufacturing engineers directly acompany and supervise the entire build of Mr. Top Exec's intended car and all of its significant components.

Result: Mr. Top Exec received a perfect car that seemed to have been built by Toyota. And the FACTORY MANAGER kept his job!

Moral: Too bad all the other buyers of Detroit cars did not receve similar quality products. Then GM and Ford would not *AGAIN* be downsizing people (layoffs, buyouts, & early retirements) as they close factories because their sales volume is relentlessly shifting to the Japanese.

Maybe Mr. BBB Booster should think about this?

B/t/w Mr BBB Booster, I DID NOT make the above scenario up. It is routine practice. Nobody wants to be the messenger who brings the King bad news....

Your welcome for the lively debate Jay!

However, in response to the closing a complaint as resolved. There may be times where letters don't get out as quick as they needed to. However, even if you reply that an issue wasn't resolved after the date on the letter, the case would be reopened. Cases can always be reopened. They don't go into a vault when they are done never to see the light of day again. Rebuttals and reopening happen dozens of times at BBBs across the country everyday.

I'm in this writing box so I can't see the numbers you posted, but in relation to disputes, I assure you the BBB does not find for the business 90% of the time. Come to think of it, they don't so much find for anyone as they worked to find a mutually satisfactory resolution. The dispute resolution process isn't about passing judgement, it's about helping consumers and business who had a falling out reach an accord.

Again, I think it's fine to bring up specific instances of things that happened to you. But only the BBB would know what amount of cases are resolved, unresolved, etc. When numbers start getting thrown around that (with all due respect to you Jay)had to be assumptions or heard from other people who either assumed or made them up, a diservice is being done to the company/organization. In this case the BBB.

Jason,

Thank you for the Debate and we both choose to disagree.

In closing, it would be nice for 'Mediation Services' to rule 50% of the time with the company. Heck, it would be nice if that 'Mediation Service' would rule 75% of the time on the companies side!

The reason why I bring this up Jason is because in 100% of the cases that the BBB provided Mediation Service over 90% of the cases was ruled in favor of the company with a Satisfactory Rating!

For example: If I wrote in a complaint on the first day of June, I would receive a response on June 27th saying that if the BBB did not receive a reply from me by June 21st, they would consider the matter resolved!

The postmark on the letter would show that the letter was mailed by the BBB on the 26th and I would get the letter the very next day on the 27th and the BBB would write that if they didn't here from me by the 21st, that they would consider the complaint resolved...

Before the BBB even mailed me a response to my complaint, it was resolved!

Jay.

I have no doubt that there have been times where BBBs have not lived up to the standards they set for themselves. Again though, I ask you what nationwide, or for that matter, local company could claim 100% satisfaction. Especially in a field as volatile as dispute resolution. Let's face it, in the overwhelming majority of cases, someone is going to be mad at the end of the day!

I assure you that no BBB has ever stopped taking complaints on a company because they "were getting too many disputes". That's not to say that if a company has made it clear they are not responding to the BBB that they may not pursue them. However, the company report would read as such.

I have appreciated your comments Jay and enjoyed having a civil dialogue. I understand that people who post on here have had bad experiences and no matter what I say that won't change a preconceived mind set.

Actually, I think you referenced that the BBB has not officially responded to the posts on here. Quite frankly, they don't because the forum is skewed to one side and you can't possibly win the argument.

While I know we disagree, I hope Jay and others have, at the least, gained some knowledge of how BBBs work. Its clear to anyone who truly knows how a BBB operates that a substantial portion of these posts are way off base and have either been greatly exagerated or outright made up.

Believe me, there are many not just bad, but horrible companies out there (both large and small). Business ethics is pretty much a thing of the past and making the last penny, whether it be for yourself or shareholders, is pretty much a businesses ONLY objective.

I agree that the BBB system as a whole has not done enough PR wise to let people know who they are and what their true mission is (education), but I believe it is irresponsible for people (whether it be BBB or company related) to post slanderous comments when they clearly are ignorant to vital details as to how a organization/company, NEEDS to operate.

Again, the BBB does not have tons of room to work my friends. They are constantly under fire from law suits and can't be as forward as they would like to be in most cases. That is not the fault of the BBB though. And to be honest, I find it hard to understand the venom towards the BBB when they can do nothing to worsen your situation. At the end of a dispute, if they found the company provided a reasonable response, the worst cas scenario is you are back where you started. Minus maybe a few hours of your time.

Finally, I plead with all consumers to do your homework on a company before you do business. The BBB is a great source, and if used correctly, could prevent problems from happening if questions are asked before a transaction is made.

Jason,

Thank you again for your response.

I would like to take this time to point out that the "THE FOX GUARDING THE HEN HOUSE" post that you have been replying to is just one post. If you look under BBB Better Business Bureau you will see about 900 plus listings and if you look under Better Business Bureau you will notice 100 plus listing on the Ripoff Report Website.

That is a lot of complaints from people about the BBB!

Think about this for a moment, there are over a 1000 plus complaints on the Ripoff Report website and this does not include the comments to those posts by others!

What this means is that a huge public relations disaster has occurred with the Better Business Bureau and it is not being addressed!

The BBB allowed this to occur!

This post was created on 2/22/2000 and has been going strong ever since. Have you noticed how long it takes to load?

... and the Ripoff Report Website shows over 1000 posts and some of them are almost as large as the THE FOX GUARDING THE HEN HOUSE!

You mentioned territory as a possible reason for not taking complaints... the reason I heard was because they just getting too many.

But what would help is if the BBB would consolidate all of the complaints into one data base for the consumer to review.

For example: Bank of America

Just what is the Grand Nationwide Total of complaints under Chairman and CEO Kenneth D. Lewis control at Bank of America including divisions and subsidiary's?

What is the Grand Total?

Can you even tell me what the Grand Total is for BoA's credit card division?

Here we have a Major Bank that is engaged in illegal telemarketing activity... they base their telemarketing activity by customer name and not by telephone number and there are hundreds and hundreds of complaints because they don't want to abide by the National Do Not Call List... I am not their customer, I do not have a credit card with them, my wife does, so why did they ignore my written Do Not Call request and just where would a consumer send a complaint too?

You don't have to answer that Jason... it doesn't matter now!

The only reason why I would send a complaint into a BBB is so that if it came to a lawsuit... I can say... "Yes I sent a complaint to the BBB!"

The next point that I would like to make... each and every single complaint on the Ripoff Report Website represents a failure!

This is a failure of customer service, it is a failure of the company, it is a failure of the BBB, it is a failure of the Attorney General.

It is a failure!

Jason, when this site is not busy, you can pull up complaints by state, by company, by city and you might be surprised at what you discover!

Jay, I can see you've had some bad experiences and if things have happened the way you say, then things were not handled correctly. Let me address the issues in your most recent post one by one.

First, no BBB should even send a response that says "we are working on the issue with the customer". After the BBB received it, it should have gotten back with the company and said, let us know exactly what you are doing to resolve the matter. rThey then should make every attempt to verify the resolution with the customer.

Again, if this is the response you were having to a complaint, it should not have been allowed. While all BBBS are not run the same, I think I'm safe in saying that no BBB would knowingly allow this type of response. I hate to go back to an original point, but if this is what you were getting, I would strongly recomend contacting the BBB to speak with a manager about it. I would even do it on a closed case as long as it wasn't over a year old.

Second point... I've read in your and others posts that the BBB has inaccurate reports. First, I don't know how people can talk about this as if it were gospel. As I said before, there are numerous reasons why a dispute may not have been able to be accepted. But more importantly, how do you know that someone REALLY filed a dispute.

How often do you hear people exagerate or make up claims of doing something that they never actually did. Or maybe they called and vented to an operator, but didn't physically file a claim, did that count as a dispute in their book?

I say this with the utmost sincerity and would bet my home on it, no BBB is hiding and not reporting disputes that they are able to accept. Unfortunately, that is what the primary chunk of their work force is paid to do! It would be stupid for them to do so and goes against everything they currently and have ever stood for. They report what they properly receive and handle. Bottom line end of story.

On a side note, allow me to address the synical attacks on the BBB because some may charge for reports. As referenced in my previous post, I'm not saying anything thats not common knowledge when I say that the BBB system as a whole is not as prevelant as it once was. With that said, it can be a struggle for some offices to make enough money to pay the bills and keep the office going. Thus, some have adopted a policy of charging for services. The nominal fees paid by consumers and businesses may have saved them thousands, while at the same time providing the BBB in question with some much needed revenue.

Can we guarantee that every report is 100% accurate and that a mistake never happens, no. But can any business owner make that claim? Come to think about it, can you as a consumer make the claim that all your affairs are in order? I mean that in saying if you called the BBB, did you know the companies address and phone number in addition to just their name?

Example, some people will call the BBB asking about AAA Roofing. They won't have a number or an address, but still want a report. There may be 4 AAA Roofings, or other similar name, in their files. The BBB reads the ones the consumer wants and can only hope it was the one in question. If it wasn't though, is that the fault of the BBB?

Folks, the BBB doesn't have some magical way of collecting information from every company in their service area. They mostly rely on first hearing something about the company (good or bad). They then send an information request to the company. Many don't respond. So then we have very little information in our files.

Sadly, the way we get the most information is if a dispute is filed. A true file can then be created and information about the company obtained because they will have a dialogue with us.

Quick hit... As noted earlier, a company can have hundreds of disputes and still maintain a satisfactory record. It relates to the size and volume of business they do. More importantly, it relates to how they handled each issue.

In regards to the K.C. BBB not taking disputes on a cell phone provider. I don't know the details, but this sounds like a territory issue.

When large companies receive disputes, the BBB system as a whole (in conjunction with the company) will for the sake of efficency choose to send disputes to the BBB located nearest the companies headquarters. Example, Progressive Insurance is based out of Northeast Ohio. Last I knew, all disputes from anywhere in the country would be forwarded to the Cleveland BBB. Same with Home Depot going to Atlanta and so on and so on.

This does not mean that your local BBB is not taking the dispute, they are simply forwarding it along to another BBB. This office would then follow up with you with the company response.

Now lets talk about the BBB in North Carolina not taking disputes from a large Bank. This is soemthing I know all to well about. In between starting for one BBB and working as President at another, i was a Senior Analyst for a large bank. My job was to be the absolute final contact for escalted disputes and help change policies to better suit consumer need.

The bank I worked for tried for years to find ways to not respond to the BBB. They were only legally obligated to respond to the Office of the Comptroller of the Currency and thought that was enough.

This bank (and many others) argued that it was giving away consumers private information and even though they were members, they should not have to respond. All this despite consumers actively pursuing help through the BBB to get answers for them!

Well the BBB didn't accept that and from what I can see, are still getting responses from the company. However, they are no longer members.

Now, while this company chose to continue responding and doing what is right, its not to say that others did not do the same. But can you blame the BBB for that? We don't have any way of making a company respond. Thus, it would make more sense for the N.C. BBB to tell the public "don't bother" then to waste their time and money sending a dispute that won't be answered. Better to send them to the OCC directly.

Also, by them openly telling people this, it is kind of a subtle jab at the company. Let's be honest, if you hear that a company isn't willing to respond, are you going to do business with them. Probably not.

Now I see you claim that this company has a satisfactory ranking. I'd have to know the company name and get some details, but if a company isn't responding with sincereity and disclosure like i've said, then that shouldn't be the case.

I'm not saying the BBB is perfect and doesn't have flaws. Believe me, it most definitely does. However, the BBB is a simple non-profit agency that tries to help people. It's not the end all be all and shouldn't be attacked when it couldn't save someone from a bad situation.

They shouldn't be making it worse, but they aren't some omnipotent power that can get you whatever you want. Again though, they do a d**n good job considering.

Jason,

Thank you for your response!

I would like you to imagine for a moment that a BBB forwarded a complaint from a unhappy customer to my company which describes fraud.

All I have to do is write back with:

Ms. Beebee,

Thank you for forwarding the letter from Mr. Customer from hell.

As you are aware, my company has been a loyal BBB member for the past twenty years. We take customer service seriously and are proud of our excellent record. We are also proud of our excellent relations with the BBB and look forward to working with your excellent staff in the future, should the need arise.

Thank you for allowing us to resolve this matter.

Sincerely,

Mr. Fraudster

Now what happens and it is very important for you and for the readers of the Ripoff Report site to keep in mind... that is all I have to write.

That is my response to a customer complaint.

The BBB will forward that letter to the customer. The customer will then write back and provide additional information that a fraud occurred.

Once I receive the second follow-up letter from my victim... I will then send the following letter:

Ms. Beebee,

Thank you for forwarding the letter from Mr. Customer from hell.

As you are aware, my company has been a loyal BBB member for the past twenty years. We take customer service seriously and are proud of our excellent record. We are also proud of our excellent relations with the BBB and look forward to working with your excellent staff in the future, should the need arise.

Thank you for allowing us to resolve this matter.

Sincerely,

Mr. Fraudster

Now the BBB will take the second response letter from me and forward it to the customer. The customer will photo copy actual receipts proving fraud and mail it back to the BBB. The BBB might include a note expressing surprise. For example it might be written as:

Dear Mr. Fraudster,

I am enclosing documentation from the customer that is somewhat shocking, we look forward to your response.

All I have to do is write back:

Ms. Beebee,

Thank you for forwarding the letter from Mr. Customer from hell.

As you are aware, my company has been a loyal BBB member for the past twenty years. We take customer service seriously and are proud of our excellent record. We are also proud of our excellent relations with the BBB and look forward to working with your excellent staff in the future, should the need arise.

Thank you for allowing us to resolve this matter.

Sincerely,

Mr. Fraudster

Jason, that is all I have to do to maintain a 'Satisfactory' Rating with the BBB!

Jason, that scenario actually happened to me. Jason, this happens all of the time to people all across the country!
Jason, that scenario happened to several people that I know.

Jason, there are BBB's that have been charging consumers a fee for reports that are false, inaccurate and misleading.

Who should the consumer complain to when they get false, inaccurate and misleading reports from the BBB?

What should the consumer think when the BBB has a 'Satisfactory' rating for a company for year after year and suddenly, when Channel five shows up with the cameras, the Expos shows hundreds and hundreds of complaints about the same company?

What is the consumer to think when the BBB in the Kansas City area stopped taking complaints about a major cell phone provider?

What is the consumer to think when the BBB in the North Carolina area states very clearly that they do not take complaints about a major bank and the complaint has nothing to do with a bill?

Why should that Bank get a 'Satisfactory' when the BBB shows hundreds of no response from the bank?

I know that you do not know the particulars and may not be able to answer these questions. But the point is, the Better Business Bureau has a growing reputation that is "unsatisfactory!"

The Better Business Bureau's reputation is so bad now that I will not recommend it to people. I am not alone. More and more people are complaining about the BBB's. More and more people are going to other sources for information because the information provided by the BBB's is completely unreliable!

More people and companies are becoming aware of the BBB's poor reputation!

The only question I have now is when will we start reading about the BBB's shutting down because of lack of interest from consumers and companies?

First, thank you for the kudos on the posting. I think it's important that even if we disagree on this issue, that we can still have a civil dialogue.

I am glad you brought up the number of complaints issue. This is something that I think needed to be addressed as well. One thing people need to know is that a crucial line in BBB reporting states that "the number of complaints received by a company is not as important as how they addressed those disputes".

Obviously, your local hardware store owned by the same family for 50 years is not going to receive as many disputes as say Home Depot (at least they shouldn't). Some companies by the sheer amount of business they do are going to get a significant volume of disputes. However, if they take the time to seriously address each one and make good faith efforts to resolve the matter, then they more then likely deserve to stay a member, or at the very least, keep a satisfactory ranking.

Likewise, if mom and pop's hardware store only gets 2 disputes in 2 years and either doesn't respond or doesn't work in good faith to resolve the issue(s), then they probably deserve an unsatisfactory report.

In relation to you having filed disputes that were unresolved. Obviously I don't know the details of your cases so I can't speak to well on it. What I can say is that if the company was a member, every possible attempt should have been made to have the issue resolved. However, even in cases with members, there are times when a BBB can legitimitely feel that the company made a substantial good faith effort to resolve, or that things were done according to the contract, while also remaining ethical.

I think thats another important issue to bring up. You see, BBBs don't deal exclusively in legalities, they deal primarily in ethics. The BBB doesn't believe that just because you signed a contract that the company is completely absolved of doing what's right.

That is another huge benefit of using a BBB. Beyond the services being free, they will try to push for what is right more so then what is legal. An example would be that you purchased a used car (not saying this is your case Jay) as is with no warranty and it fell apart one foot off the lot, the dealership would win in a court case. The BBB however will make every effort to see that the car is repaired or that the sale is cancelled. We can't guarantee that will happen, but they will make a solid effort. Thats more then you would get from a PAID attorney.

Finally, in regards to disputes not being reported. I think it is critical that if you have filed a dispute and do not see it posted that you ask to speak with a manager at a BBB to find out why. As referenced earlier, even if the dispute would be considered to be questionable at best, it will almost always still get reported.

I'll give you a literal example. I remember one dispute on a midsized company that had maybe 1 complaint in ten years of doing business that I handled when I first started out. The complaintant's only issue was that the secretary "looked at me in a rude way". I asked my boss and yep, we needed to process this. So this company received a dispute based off what someone perceived to be a rude look. However, it was important that we handled that dispute. Why? Because when we start making judgements on what is and is not a valid dispute, we start down a dangerous path of losing our neutrality.

Now, I'm going to be very carefull with what I say here and am not directing this message to any particular poster on here. Sometimes a BBB will receive a dispute that we won't puruse because the dispute itself is either irrational (the company has installed cameras in their televison and are watching me) or the letter is filled with obscenities. Obviously, we can't send a letter to a company when every other word is F this and F that.

The BBB is like anywhere else. If you have a problem with a dispute or the person handling your dispute, you can speak with a supervisor to get more details on what happened and see if the matter was handled correctly. However, just like in any business, if you call and are hostile towards the individual in question (just a general statement not saying you did this Jay) they aren't going to be as willing to help you. Use the old more flys with honey approach.

Again, all I ask is that before making assumptions and assuming the worst, have a dialogue to find out what happened. This website and others like it can be great, but unfortunately, it lends itself to knee-jerk reactions by people who perhaps didn't take the time to understand an issue fully.

Jason W,

Thank you for writing a very well written post. I am confident that the fans of the Ripoff Report Website will agree that your post is educational and informative!

I just wish that my experiences with the BBB were similar to what your post describes.

Perhaps I should have sent the complaints to your Bureau.

You know I have never had a complaint that the BBB resolved. Now the BBB's will show the complaints as being resolved, but not once has that occurred.

In fact, I once had a Ford Dealership try to pull a scam service on my vehicle. A complaint was filed. The dealership disputed. I sent copies of the dealerships own receipts that proved the dealer was lying. This went back and forth. it was never resolved. The BBB never listed the complaint; it was never reported on their website!

That is part of the problem with the BBB, the consumer can not visit the BBB site and get an accurate idea as to the actual number of complaints!

I can show you example after example of a non BBB member who has one, two, or three complaints and gets an unsatisfactory rating. I can also show you companies that are BBB members, that have over 7000 complaints and get a Satisfactory rating!

I can on and on and on!

Jason W,

Thank you for writing a very well written post. I am confident that the fans of the Ripoff Report Website will agree that your post is educational and informative!

I just wish that my experiences with the BBB were similar to what your post describes.

Perhaps I should have sent the complaints to your Bureau.

You know I have never had a complaint that the BBB resolved. Now the BBB's will show the complaints as being resolved, but not once has that occurred.

In fact, I once had a Ford Dealership try to pull a scam service on my vehicle. A complaint was filed. The dealership disputed. I sent copies of the dealerships own receipts that proved the dealer was lying. This went back and forth. it was never resolved. The BBB never listed the complaint; it was never reported on their website!

That is part of the problem with the BBB, the consumer can not visit the BBB site and get an accurate idea as to the actual number of complaints!

I can show you example after example of a non BBB member who has one, two, or three complaints and gets an unsatisfactory rating. I can also show you companies that are BBB members, that have over 7000 complaints and get a Satisfactory rating!

I can on and on and on!

Jason W,

Thank you for writing a very well written post. I am confident that the fans of the Ripoff Report Website will agree that your post is educational and informative!

I just wish that my experiences with the BBB were similar to what your post describes.

Perhaps I should have sent the complaints to your Bureau.

You know I have never had a complaint that the BBB resolved. Now the BBB's will show the complaints as being resolved, but not once has that occurred.

In fact, I once had a Ford Dealership try to pull a scam service on my vehicle. A complaint was filed. The dealership disputed. I sent copies of the dealerships own receipts that proved the dealer was lying. This went back and forth. it was never resolved. The BBB never listed the complaint; it was never reported on their website!

That is part of the problem with the BBB, the consumer can not visit the BBB site and get an accurate idea as to the actual number of complaints!

I can show you example after example of a non BBB member who has one, two, or three complaints and gets an unsatisfactory rating. I can also show you companies that are BBB members, that have over 7000 complaints and get a Satisfactory rating!

I can on and on and on!

I previously worked in the BBB system for numerous years. I started as an entrly level Dispute Resolution Specialist and worked my way up to President/CEO of a BBB. I wanted to take some time to address issues brought up on this website that give the good name of the BBB a black eye.

The first issue I want to address is this attack on the BBB that because it takes money from businesses, they lack neutrality. Lets make one thing crystal clear, all BBBs are non-profit organizations, that in the vast majority of cases, provide their services to the public (both consumers and businesses) free of charge.

Yes, BBBs do operate mainly through the support of member companies. I'll get to why a BBB can remain neutral later, but first let me ask this. If a BBB did not collect dues from members, how else would they operate? Are they supposed to have a fundraiser and hope that the general public feels charitable and donates the thousands, if not millions, of dollars it takes to operate a BBB on a yearly basis? And lets say they were fortunate to receive this funding on a consistent basis, if you are biased because you take money from businesses, wouldn't the same logic apply if you're taking money from the public? If Joe Average is donating the money to keep you up and running, wouldn't you then start siding with the consumer more when disputes were filed since they are your (as many have stated on here) bread and butter?

The fact is that BBB employees can't win in most instances. If a consumer files a dispute and they side with them, many businesses get upset and think we are always on the consumers side. If they side with the business, consumers think that we are in bed with the companies. If you don't believe me, just read the reports on this very site. You see exactly that! Consumers and businesses both claiming the BBB and its employees are crooks! I ask you, how can they be on one side or the other when it's apparent from this sampling that everyone hates the BBB!

Now lets move on to the BBB reports themselves. Yes, BBB reports are vague and provide very general information. Unfortunately, due to the law suit happy society we live in, this is a necessary evil. BBBs are sued on a regular basis by companies for the simplistic reports they provide now. Could you imagine if they started giving out specific details of a dispute?

In most cases, the BBB is a middle man in a dispute between 2 parties. In the overwhelming majority of these instances, they rely on the word of both parties to be the truth. However, as we all know, BBBs aren't always getting the truth. So, if the BBB then makes the details of the disputes available to the public, it would be quite probable that misleading information, if not outright lies, could be presented to the public and some may choose to take it as gospel. Then imagine the lawsuits that would role in!

I also wanted to address claims that disputes filed with BBBs were not reported. First I should mention that there are issues a BBB does not handle. One example would be if you were an employee of a company and had issues with them regarding your employment. This is better handled by Goverment agencies who are equipped to deal with them and they feel it's best to stay out of it. Another example would be if a matter has already gone to court, a legal judgement supercedes anything the BBB would decide. Thus, they stay out of it. There are more examples, but nothing that is in place to "hide" complaints. Please call your local BBB to see what these limited instances are.

With that said, if you filed a dispute and you were advised that a case was opened, you can rest assured that your dispute will appear on its record. Now, disputes are not put on file until after the case has been closed (one way or another), but it is reported! If the issues is resolved, it is reported as such. If it is unresolved, it is reported as such. If the company failed to respond, you got it, IT IS REPORTED AS SUCH!

Now, there may be times on the rarest of occasions that a dispute was found to be without question lacking merit (less then 1% of the time) and the dispute closed and not filed. But that is it. If any BBB was found to be hiding disputes, The Council of BBBs would revoke their charter and the employees involved would be fired by either BBB Senior Management, or if Senior Management was involved, the Board of Directors would terminate them.

I'm not calling the poeple who have said they filed reports on here that weren't reported liars, i'm simply stating that they might have not understood that the dispute does not get reported until after the case is finalized or they were trying to dispute something the BBB does not handle. There might other explanations as well, but I assure you, no BBB I have ever heard of would willfully ignore customer complaints/concerns.

I now want to take a moment to address the staffing of a BBB. I believe the creator of this website mentioned earlier that most BBBs have one person handling disputes and five times that selling. I wish that were the case! Unfortunately and in my opinion, the BBB system as a whole has done a horrible job of positioning itself in the marketplace in regards to this issue, most people think of the BBB as a complaint department. Sadly, this is the last thing any BBB wants to (or is intended) be. Any BBB's primary function is to be an education source to PREVENT problems before they occur. Alas, that horse is out of the barn and there never was really a significant attempt to get him back. So we've got what we've got now. A series of what is incorrectly perceived to be by the general public as goverment run complaint departments.

Back to my original point, staffing. First you need to understand that all BBBs are not the same. For instance, a BBB in the city the size of Cleveland may have 25 or so employees. Approximately 10 of which may be directly or indirectly responsible for handling disputes. However, a BBB in a smaller area may only have a total of 3 employees (including the President). In that case, even the President would be working on and helping to resolve disputes. However, to my knowledge there has never been a BBB with more sales people then people working administratively in the office to reach BBB objectives.

Should a BBB still have an inside sales staff, it rarely exceeds 2 full time employees. The majority of BBBs now use a sales vendor who calls on behalf of their BBB to solicit memberships. This outsourcing is at its heart a good tool to help build bureau memberhips, while at the same time reducing the need and cost for a full-time in house sales force. However, I will agree with some of the comments on here that sometimes (as can happen when you can't directly oversee your salespeople at all times) the sales pitches can be less then perfect.

I personally had matters brought to my attention from businesses who thought the presentation was misleading and even rude at times. I immediately contacted the vendor and made sure that the individual who made the call was talked to and I rarely had a repeat problem.

I think if we are all honest with ourselves, we know that sales in any profession always walks a thin line of integrity. I agree with the comments made on here that the presentation should be tweaked and made to represent all of the ethics the BBB stands for all of the time.

finally in relation to staffing.. Something I think that is really sad and should not go without mention is that being a non-profit industry, most workers at a BBB make less then peanuts. i for example was working full time in a downtown office in a major city making less then 20K a year. For me it was supposed to be a foot in the door on my way to bigger and better things, but I enjoyed helping and educating the public so I didn't mind the lousy pay. That is how most people in these offices are. They want to help you and like feeling like they make a difference in what they do for a living. Even if it is a small one.

Take a moment to think about what they put up with on a daily basis, consumers yelling at them because they couldn't resolve their problem, companies yelling at them because they dare ask that they make a good faith effort to resolve this issue. Again, it's a no win situation.

Then there is the stress on Presidents and other higher ups. I don't think it's a reach to say that BBBs don't play as significant a part in the American conscience as they did just 20 years ago. Thus, it's often a struggle to keep the money coming in and keep your doors open. Higher ups must struggle every day with paying the bills and making sure that money isn't accepted from companies with less then stellar reputations. However, in the OVERWHELMING majority of cases, they make the correct call.

That leads me back to staying neutral. BBBs are able to stay neutral because member companies realize that there is a inherant value to being a BBB member and understand that they will one day more then likely get a dispute. The value of membership to businesses is 2 fold. First is that studies show the majority of consumers prefer to do business with a member company. Second, they realize the work the BBB does to keep the marketplace scam free and safe for consumers and reputable companies. They understand we need their support to keep the shady businesses out of their town and cutting into their business.

Members know that if a dispute is filed, they must not only answer the BBB, but make every possible effort to resolve the dispute. Should they fail to do so, they will lose there membership and most likely forfeit any dues paid. Not to mention any extra business that being a member would bring them in the future. Again though, companies applying for membership are almost always reputable ones. Hence, if a problem arose with a customer, they would address it even if they were not members.

It should be referenced that to join the BBB you have to meet requirements that are strictly enforced. And before you start saying that the BBB just lets in who it wants regardless to cash some checks, all memberships have to be approved by that individual BBB's Board of Directors. The Board of Directors is made up of volunteers from the local business community who are rotated in and out on a regular basis to prevent corruption. These owners or executives of companies would no more want to have a shady company on the BBB roster then the average public. Actually, they would want it less as the company applying for membership may be in direct competiton to them.

Now, I'm not going to say that a shady company hasn't slipped between the cracks now and then. However, they are quickly exposed and tossed out. Often, this results in a public notification of such and being one of the harshest reports a company can obtain given the limitations BBBs face.

Again, there have certainly been bad eggs in the BBB system at times, just as there has been in any business at one time or another. However, there is no conspiracy by the BBB to be on one side or another. They are strictly neutral and again, just trying to educate the public, whom again consist of consumers AND businesses, of scams, frauds and providing tips on how to be better consumers/businesses.

The last thing they want is for someones bad experience to be worsened by dealing with the BBB. Unfortunately, sometimes, there is nothing they can do. They are not as impotent as some on here would lead you to believe (actually quite effective for a FREE service), but they do have limitations on what they can do at times. Again, if used as they are intended, as an educational resource, you'd be hardpressed to find a better source of information anywhere.

Jason W

One more thing... The BBB does not take sides....When either side says something or makes claims about an issue that is questionable....at least where I am....our first response is "prove it" or "send a copy to us". If it is a "he-said, she-said" issue and there is no documentation, it is just like going to court and expecting the judge just to take someone's word for it and rule for them.

As far as some companies having a larger number of complaints than another company. You have to consider the company's size and volume of business. Their business area (local or national, etc.) plays a part in the total number of complaints, plus the number of complaints received is not as important as the type of complaint and how the company responds to them....so if they have a lot of complaints, but they are all resolved, yes they could have a satisfactory record, because they are taking care of the issues and the same of a company having a small number of complaints that has a satisfactory report.

The reason member companies can not have an unsatisfactory record is because the terms of membership state they have to address and make a reasonable attempt to resolve all disputes. If not, their membership could be terminated. Member companies are held to a higher standard than non-member companies. Each bureau may have slightly different policies regarding membership and complaint processing, but a member can not have a number of unresolved complaints.

There is alot that goes on that people do not realize, so before bad mouthing the BBB because things didn't go your way, find out exactly what the BBB does and doesn't do....how a company becomes and stays a member and what to expect during the complaint process. Educate yourself before you spout out things that are untrue.

The BBB is neutral...that is why we have arbitration services for disputes that qualify that are not resolved during the initial process. We do not decide the outcome, arbitrators who are not BBB Employees do....so if you are not happy about how your case is closed, next time ask about arbitration....see if your case qualifies if you are not contacted and offered arbitration prior to the case being closed. You never know until you ask. Not all cases qualify and a company can not be forced to arbitrate.

The poster "Kim" in Pine Bluff, AR is NOT an employee of the BBB. There is ONE office in AR and it is in Little Rock.

The BBB is a non-profit orginization with no legal authority. The BBB Can not force a company to take any specific action to resolve a dispute, we offer arbitration on cases that qualify, but can not force any company to agree to arbitrate. Some companies agree to arbitrate as a condition of their membership, but not all member companies do.

The BBB can provide the contact information to the licensing and/or regulatory agency for a company a consumer is researching to obtain further information on the company. We do work with the AG's office regarding certain issues and concerns, but we do not have any legal powers. We can only report complaints that are filed. True some issues are not handles by the BBB, in these cases if we have the contact information or know of the licensng agency or the agency that regulates the company's type of industry. So, if consumer's do not notify their local BBB, there is no way we can know of anything to report it.

If you have any questions regarding what type of cases are handles by the BBB and what types are not, contact your local BBB office.

Just because a case isn't closed to your satisfaction doesn't mean we don't care or are on the side of a business. It just means we have done all we are able to do within our authority, the company has declined arbitration or has provided documentation such as a signed contract, made a reasonable offer to resolve a case or does not respond at all.....These things are noted and kept on file for 3 years (standard reporting period).

We do what we can with LIMITED resourses and authority to assit and educate the public as much as possible.

It is the responsiblity of the consumer to research, research, research....check references, check legal requirements, etc....the BBB does everything possible to assit and educate, but can't assist to break contracts and like I said, force a company to do anything.

If you have an issue with a marketplace issue within the state of Arkansas, contact the Little Rock BBB office and someone will be happy to speak with you.

They sure do.

Let me touch upon one trade, BASEMENT WATERPROOFING and many companies who install INSIDE SYSTEMS and their BBB membership.

Hey, many of these companies have MILLIONS of dollars to blllchtt homeowners outta their hard earned cash and when they run into problems-after installing their water-diverting inside systems and there are further LEAKS,cracks in basement walls widening,wall bowing in, mold.. homeowner COMPLAINTS...their PAID BBB membership and...the fact several OWNERS of INTERIOR Waterproofing Co's are ON the Better Business Bureau BOARD OF DIRECTORS, LOLOLOLOLOL!!!!

You talk about a scam, a good blllchtt story, HOLY SHTT!

These companies and the BBB are in bed, no doubt in my mind!

They have gotten themselves/PAID to get their rear ends on the BBB BOARD to...CONTINUE to bbblllchttt people out of their mony AND, to keep their BBB 'Customer-Complaints' DOWN...and/or SHOW their BBB record to be "SATISFACTORY"....when they REALLY have 20-30-50++++ Customer complaints JUST WITHIN THE LAST 36 MONTHS.....buncha CROOKS IMO.

ALL about MONEY....yep, Jerry Maguire 'n SHOW ME THE MONEY. In THIS BUSINESS, Bsmt Water'g....MANY CO's ONLY or most always want to install these interior systems, there are hundreds and hundreds who PAY the BBB so, last thing the BBB wants is to BE HONEST and SHOW ALL-the-COMPLAINTS against these companies and make these hundreds of Interior Co's angry, they do NOT want to LOSE them, the MONEY!! So they'll COVER SHTT up, oh yes they do!

The more members the BBB would lose, the less likely they are around, yeah, don't want to lose their salaries do they. Buncha glue sniffing farts they are.

Yes, they've contacted myself to try and bs me to become a member, shtt, WHY would ANYONE want to PAY-SOMEONE else ....if they don't have to, if they have nothing to hide. Shtt, i have thousands of HOMEOWNERS to use as actual REFERENCES....certainly am NOT going to PAY the BBB or any OTHER ORG, like the NAWSRC, HONEST contractors don't need any ORG, dang it!

And thats it, THEY USE EACH OTHER TO SCREW CONSUMERS!!! They most certainly do.

Hey...i have done a TON of homework in searching THIS business, Bsmt Waterproofing...and companies BBB records. All throughout the USA, all states.

To save some time/space here, i'll try and end this post and say....

In searching these SUPPOSED BBB results/records, HOW is it that some Waterproofing Companies, usually the larger ones(more money and they are BBB paid-members) can accumulate 25-50+++ complaints withing the LAST 36 months and, the BBB SHOWS them to have a 'Satisfactory record'...VERSUS a small company who is NOT a BBB-paid-member and has 1 complaint in LAST 36 months...BBB often shows them to have an 'UN-satisfactory' record.....know what i mean?

Some of these SAME companies who've accumulated x-amount of complaints///YET BBB shows 'Satisfactory record'....have had ATTY GEN lawsuits against them.

Money.. 'DOES BUY YOU LOVE' with the BBB!

These, days we do not have rights anymore as consumers the better business bureau does not care about us nor does the attorney general they are both useless, the attorney general is suppose to protect us quite the opposite sense the better business bureau seemse to be protecting & helping out these bad businesses more then they do us!. Who, helps out the business more then us the better business bureau & attorney general office if thats true what people say, the attorney general can do nothing to protect us then we have lost our rights!. Don't depend on help either from people on this website they will say u are wrong about the business who u are reporting & say it was your fault u got cheated!, & this is why the bad business gets away with doing us wrong!. Of, course nobody will belive us on this website then the bad businesses can continue doing what they are doing cause the better business bureau, & attorney general are on their side! & not ours!.

Oh Pallleeeeessssse, people defending the BBB. I can tell you from personal experience of their failures.

The BBB is the reason why I got ripped off. I got the company from the NJ BBB web site. I went there looking for a reputible contractor. They have this company ( United roofing/United builders,) listed twice as members.

The BBB listing said they were in business since 1981, and both listings said satisfactory ratings.

They claimed all complaints were resolved. I thought this was good. They also said a business like this, that got 20 complaints in 36 months, was normal.

Trusting in the BBB, I took their recommendation, only to be taken for $16,000.00 from this criminal. Since I filed ripoof report, numerous others have come forward with the same complaints about the BBB and it's buddy, United.

I found out through my worthless complaint process, that if you don't agree with the BBB decision, they count it resolved, and blame the customer for " non acceptance to the BBB} whatever that means.

The BBB is a complete joke here in NJ. I can't speak for others. I did everything right, and the BBB actually victimized me. They are the root cause, bottom line!!!

This man has tons of cases with NJ atty. General's Office, criminal and civil cases throughout the state, and the NJ BBB still lists him as satisfactory.

This is supposed to be protecting the consumer? Quite the opposite.

I recently filed a online complaint with the BBB about an experience I had with a local auto dealers sales tactics and down right theft. I even have the story posted here under Power Chrysler Jeep Dodge in AZ.

The dealer is question responded to the complaint a few weeks later with some fabricated story that didn't even actually address my complaint. I received an email from the BBB with their response and an opportunity to accept the dealers response or not. Of course I did not accept their response and gave an explanation as to why I did not accept the response.

After about 2 weeks of hearing nothing back, I looked up the complaint and the BB had closed my complaint with the standard: "Administratively Closed - BBB determined the company made a reasonable offer to resolve the issues, but the consumer did not accept the offer."

The dealer didn't even make an offer, they just fabricated a story and claimed I said things I didn't say. So apparently, the business did everything they could to resolve the issue, and I'm just some stubborn idiot that wouldn't accept the dealers great offer...according to the BBB. What a complete joke and waste of time the BBB is.

So, if you have a complaint, all the business has to do is respond to the complaint, is doesn't matter what they say, all they have to do is respond, with anything, and the BBB will claim that they made a reasonable offer to resolve the issues, but the consumer did not accept their reasonable offer.

I am part owner of a company who was a BBB member for several years, our company has been in business for over 50 years, and has a good reputation in the area, and community. Because of changes to my franchise, and their biased rating system based on how much money a business pays them to get a good rating, we opted for BBB membership 10 years ago.

In the 10 years of our membership, did we see any benefits of our membership?

Emphatically No!

We are located in Ohio, and the key selling points for membership are as follows:

-Mediation
-Internet Leads
-Advertising
-Rating

That is it, and even those services are very weak. We have been contacted to resolve 3 complaints in 10 years, and of those complaints the BBB did nothing to help us other than provide a sounding board for complaints. We take pride in our business, and handle customers appropriately, but this service is vastly over-rated.

The internet leads they provided amounted to less than 5% of our hits for the month, with none resulting in more growth.

Advertising amounts to the BBB listing all area members in two major papers twice a year, why would anyone read that listing in the first place, and or care?

Ratings, just as stated one of our competitors who has triple our complaints, gets the same rating as we do with the extortion fee of being a member. Benefit to a business none.

Lastly, yes businesses pay money to be rated, only for it to have no merit on their status. Consumers, trust a business who makes their living providing ratings which have no real meaning to businesses or consumers alike.

In my opinion, the BBB is no better than the Welcome Wagon, which is yet another shyster business which sells themselves to consumers or businesses, but is nothing more than a marketing company sponging off of others to survive.

I filed a complaint against a contractor with the BBB. The BBB contacted the contractor, listened to his side of the story and decided without ever speaking to me, or looking at the evidence I offered them, that the contractor was "innocent".

The BBB is the most ridiclous agency out there that professes to work for the consumer. Give me a break. If they had done their homework, the would have seen the slime ball was crooked. In fact, the contractor has 7 citations against him for contract fraud with the local state contractors board.

The BBB is bed with the bad guys, all for a buck. Guess the BBB promised the dirtbag they protect him at all costs if he'd pay them off.
Don't bother with the BBB. If you want a solution, or file a complaint, go to the right agency, and fight for your rights as a consumer.
The BBB is simply a joke!

To Kim in Pine Bluff who said: "Again, my message was intended for those who like to place blame on the BBB instead of accepting responsibility for their own actions. The BBB is only as effective as the information we are given."

That is such canned nonsense. When a consumer has a problem they are trying to hold a business accountable for ITS actions. Trying to play word games by saying its the customer's "personal responsibility" doesn't change the fact they are unhappy with a product or service. It also doesn't change the fact that happy customers don't complain about good businesses. If there's a complaint, there's a very good chance the customer has a legitmate beef that needs looking into. That's the personal responsibility part of the businesses obligation: to offer a good product or service and stand behind it. If they don't do that, they can expect complaints!

Second, the BBB does NOT report all complaints, so your statement that the BBB is "only as effective as the information we're given" is also nonsense. If the BBB's would systematically report all complaints that statement would be true. They don't, so it's not! I have a letter from the BBB stating they do not publish all complaints. Why did I pursue them on this issue? They were not making a complaint of mine public. My complaint was against a homebuilder who was a member of the local BBB. The BBB told me they had "no complaints" on the builder when I did research before buying. (The BBB was not the only place I did research.) After my complaint, they were still telling callers there were "no complaints." When they wrote to me to explain why my complaint wasn't public info, they even admitted they'd had complaints on file when I first called them. Therefore, the BBB lied to me and continued to lie to anyone else they told there were "no complaints."

And, FYI, my complaint was backed up by several engineering and other expert reports showing the house had code violations, missing material, serious defects and damage, and needed in excess of $60,000 in repairs. So this was not a matter of how valid the BBB thought my complaint was. Additionally, when I complained about the BBB not making my complaint public so others could be warned in time, they made up BS about me having gone to arbitration when in fact I never ever went to arbitration nor did I ever even indicate I would. They made that up to cover their rear end, probably.

I would urge consumers to ONLY take the BBB's information as significant if they report negative information about a company. A positive report is meaningless and can disguise actual complaints. Check court records, the internet, and more. MANY complaints are hidden in supposedly "public" records that are actually kept confidential, and arbitration clauses in consumer contracts keep disputes in private company records where no one can find them. That's why I refused to go to arbitration. I settled my case and recovered most of my damages eventually, but during our search for a good builder and in our battle for our damages, the BBB was worse than useless.

Wow!!!!!!! I am so glad to hear that the BBB finally ditched John Trudeau. What a pathetic excuse for a leader of the community who is supposed to stand for ethics and morality. He is the classic example of the fox guarding the henhouse. He was the laughing stock of our town before we were finally lucky enough to pawn him off on S.C.

You have a lot of nerve to state that you help pay for anyone to join the BBB!!!! Your dollars do not help the BBB whatsoever. We are a non-profit organization!!!! The members of the BBB pay their membership dues and that is how we keep our doors open!!!!! You sound like one of those housewives who has probably never had a real job in her life. You are probably just repeating something you heard someone else say!!!! You all have no idea how hard we try to keep businesses on the straight and narrow. Until you have walked in our shoes, don't try to past judgement on us. I'm not trying to soothe or pacify injured feelings. I'm just telling what I know.

The comments about some BBB agencies may be true but when I contacted the Miami BBB they were helpful, effective and efficient. Several years ago I was one of many victims of a ripoff company - more precisely, their in-house rebate operation. After many months, emails, letters and phone calls, I had nothing for my trouble until I contacted the Miami BBB. Within three days they got TD to agree to send my LONG-overdue rebates. I was skeptical, having gotten a number of such promises from them myself, but the checks arrived several days later.

Perhaps it's that the Miami BBB agency is better than most or that I was lucky enough to talk to the right person but I believe it also helped that I had all my ducks in a row - copies of the ads offering the rebates, information on my orders showing I was entitled to them and notes on all my contacts with TigerDirect people trying to resolve the problem.

Based on my experience, I will never deal with this company again but if you do I highly recommend the Miami BBB.

Kim, I am sure that you rely upon the BBB for your job. But we too rely upon them for support of our consumer rights. When we as consumers are treated as if we are nothing to the BBB because we do not support them, than it is time for all of us to stand up and express our own feelings. We all have that in the world....freedom of speech....and we that are complaining feel that we have been wronged by the BBB. So, let us speak for ourselves and stand up for our rights as consumers. It is OUR money that pays for those idiots to join the BBB so that YOU can be paid....put that in your pipe and smoke it.

The BBB is a FOR PROFIT business. They ARE NOT any sort of government agency, and have NO POWER whatsoever to make anyone do anything.

As a business, if you pay the huge membership fees, you get a good rating. If you do not join, and pay the huge membership fees, you get an unsatisfactory rating.

It is simply extortion. That is the BBB. It is a joke and a scam. People need to get educated on what the BBB is all about.

For consumers: Get familiar with the various GOVERNMENT consumer protection agencies, and your rights under the law.

For Businesses: Keep your money in your pocket.

Again, my message was intended for those who like to place blame on the BBB instead of accepting responsibility for their own actions.
The BBB is only as effective as the information we are given. Stop looking to make us liable because the company won't give you your way!!!!
Stop signing contracts without reading them. Stop post dating checks for companies you are not sure you want to do business with. Stop your whining, dry your eyes and wipe your noses and learn from your previous mistakes!!! Again, I tell you place your blame where it belongs!!!! I can't stress it enough, if you are unhappy with the way your complaint is settled, go to small claims court or get an attorney. Let them babysit your complaints, we don't have the time. $5 does not go as far as it use to!!!!!!!!!!!!! So there!!!!!!!!!How about that!!!!!!!!!

Kim
Your response doesn't help anyone so why try to defend the BBB with that trash talk.

I know for a fact that the BBB have helped many people in dealing with a business.
I, for one am grateful for the help the BBB has provided me, but I also have seen a business get away with serious crimes and the BBB has let it fall through the cracks so to speak. YES there are a lot of huge cracks in the BBB system.

Just my two cents.

I currently work as a complaint handler for one of the BBBs. I can tell you from experience, that the consumers are only looking for someone to clean up their messes. You people get angry at us, when we are here to help as a neutral party. If you don't find satisfaction with our decisions on your complaints, GO TO SMALL CLAIMS COURT OR GET AN ATTORNEY!

We are only here to mediate between the company and the consumer. Stop trying to blame us because you were careless! We assist you as much as possible but lets be for real what exactly did you expect for $5.00. If you filed your complaint over the web or in writing, then you didn't even pay $5.00, not one red cent outside of the postage on the envelope!

I am a victim of being let down by the BBB. I had proof of a car dealers scam,and they slapped them on the hand and closed the case. Fort Wayne Toyota is the dealer in question here. I guess they make a great donation to the BBB because I am not the only victim they have scammed.

Rip-off report is doing very well, this site has been running for the past 8 years besides, the past frivolous lawsuit's these businesses have brought agaisnt rip-off report. This, site will never be shut down these bad businesses can have their frivolus lawsuits agaisnt rip-off report!, it does a good job in helping us not fall victims to their scams!. If, these businesses don't want any complaints then they should not treat custormers wrong!.

Rip-off report is doing very well, this site has been running for the past 8 years besides, the past frivolous lawsuit's these businesses have brought agaisnt rip-off report. This, site will never be shut down these bad businesses can have their frivolus lawsuits agaisnt rip-off report!, it does a good job in helping us not fall victims to their scams!. If, these businesses don't want any complaints then they should not treat custormers wrong!.

Rip-off report is doing very well, this site has been running for the past 8 years besides, the past frivolous lawsuit's these businesses have brought agaisnt rip-off report. This, site will never be shut down these bad businesses can have their frivolus lawsuits agaisnt rip-off report!, it does a good job in helping us not fall victims to their scams!. If, these businesses don't want any complaints then they should not treat custormers wrong!.

Rip-off report is doing very well, this site has been running for the past 8 years besides, the past frivolous lawsuit's these businesses have brought agaisnt rip-off report. This, site will never be shut down these bad businesses can have their frivolus lawsuits agaisnt rip-off report!, it does a good job in helping us not fall victims to their scams!. If, these businesses don't want any complaints then they should not treat custormers wrong!.

I have that same problem people blame me for trusting the company when I didn't know it was a scam. People on this website blame me for getting cheated & when I complain to the better busines bureau the company makes me out to be the liar & says its my fault.

This is the business way of getting away with taken your money that you paid the business, for their service which they didn't do. Then, the business wants to sue the customer for slander cause the business says the custormer lied about them, which makes me sick. This is the reason why businesses are able to get away with treating people wrong.

That makes me sick to my stamach when some others say that the comsumer is at fault, are mad at themselves for falling for the scam or defraudment, taking it out on the BBB, or think it can fix things, the fact is the company who ripsoff consumers should most definitely be held responsible for their own actions, and be reduced to poverty for their thievery, and it should be treated as theft and that's a felony and should have jail time added to it, saying that the consumer is at fault is like saying that a woman leaving her window open one hot night and a thief and rapist comes through the window rapes her and takes her purse, with her money, check book a credits cards and ever her cell phone, and that it is determined all her fault because she left her window open one time, as if the thief and rapist is not held responsible for the crime that he does, as if he was a little kid and we all just over look it because the woman was to stupid to close her window knowing the danger.

I used it once to complain about a company, they were unreasonable in their determination of the circumstances of the complaint, they only see the side of the company and it wasn't even a member.

I wonder if political preferences has something to do with opinions in the subject, the conservative GOP extreme right has much to do with protecting small business, even in their doublecrossing fraudulent manners, from working few people to death instead of hiring enough people, never raising the minumium wage. to price gauging and advertizing scams. If ya think about it, they are the owners and managers of capitalizm.

The, better business bureau takes the word from the business over the custormer words all the business has to do is lie so the custormer still gets rip-off & abused!, & mistreated!.

Here is the information left off by the person whom filed a complaint regarding the BBB: Their address and phone number are as follows:

Wilson Blvd
Arlington, Va 22203-1838

(703) 276-0100

And I understand, as to what your saying: All around the country this so callled organization claims to be for the consumer, but NOW, upholds and supports the corrupt: It has NEVER held the best interest for the consumer, and is only a pseudo "organization", made for you to vent your anger and frustration to, that yeild no results, to wohm it is that your complaining against, and of whom, cares NOTHING, for you..... Just the corrupt.... {Is all they are concern for} Try & find advocates whom are DEMOCRATE CONGRESS PERSON, LOBBYIST, AND SENATORS, [and not repulblicans] as well as attornies in your state, to have this so called [pseudo] consumer advocate "organization", disolved, as it is, no more than a waste of time......

Here is the information left off by the person whom filed a complaint regarding the BBB: Their address and phone number are as follows:

Wilson Blvd
Arlington, Va 22203-1838

(703) 276-0100

And I understand, as to what your saying: All around the country this so callled organization claims to be for the consumer, but NOW, upholds and supports the corrupt: It has NEVER held the best interest for the consumer, and is only a pseudo "organization", made for you to vent your anger and frustration to, that yeild no results, to wohm it is that your complaining against, and of whom, cares NOTHING, for you..... Just the corrupt.... {Is all they are concern for} Try & find advocates whom are DEMOCRATE CONGRESS PERSON, LOBBYIST, AND SENATORS, [and not repulblicans] as well as attornies in your state, to have this so called [pseudo] consumer advocate "organization", disolved, as it is, no more than a waste of time......

Here is the information left off by the person whom filed a complaint regarding the BBB: Their address and phone number are as follows:

Wilson Blvd
Arlington, Va 22203-1838

(703) 276-0100

And I understand, as to what your saying: All around the country this so callled organization claims to be for the consumer, but NOW, upholds and supports the corrupt: It has NEVER held the best interest for the consumer, and is only a pseudo "organization", made for you to vent your anger and frustration to, that yeild no results, to wohm it is that your complaining against, and of whom, cares NOTHING, for you..... Just the corrupt.... {Is all they are concern for} Try & find advocates whom are DEMOCRATE CONGRESS PERSON, LOBBYIST, AND SENATORS, [and not repulblicans] as well as attornies in your state, to have this so called [pseudo] consumer advocate "organization", disolved, as it is, no more than a waste of time......

Here is the information left off by the person whom filed a complaint regarding the BBB: Their address and phone number are as follows:

Wilson Blvd
Arlington, Va 22203-1838

(703) 276-0100

And I understand, as to what your saying: All around the country this so callled organization claims to be for the consumer, but NOW, upholds and supports the corrupt: It has NEVER held the best interest for the consumer, and is only a pseudo "organization", made for you to vent your anger and frustration to, that yeild no results, to wohm it is that your complaining against, and of whom, cares NOTHING, for you..... Just the corrupt.... {Is all they are concern for} Try & find advocates whom are DEMOCRATE CONGRESS PERSON, LOBBYIST, AND SENATORS, [and not repulblicans] as well as attornies in your state, to have this so called [pseudo] consumer advocate "organization", disolved, as it is, no more than a waste of time......

The better business bureau does take sides!, this is a lie on their website we do not take sides! wrong, the better business bureau takes the side of the business! they are useless they do not help you resolve anything or get what you pay for!. The, better business bureau is a joke they protect the business who has something to hide! they are a fraud!.

John Trudeau has been placed on leave pending an audit of the books. The board of directors has stated that they lack confidence in his ability to run the bureau. There is also talk of a class action lawsuit against him due to the documented hostile work environment he created.

These folks did not want to get involved with problem with a company in their area. I contactied a officer high on the totom pole at that office and she overrode the objections of her staff to get the ball rolling on my paperwork. It may not mean much but I am gratefull for the effort she made.

The attorney general is no different then the better business bureau. They do not help you either resolving complaints agaisnt businesses who have cheated you.

The attorney general offices makes up excuses just to protect the business forget about the consumer & innocent lives are ruin. The attorney general doesn't care. The peoples lives are ruined. It shouldn't be this way that they wait for complaits to build up agaisnt a business from 200 to 400 complaints before they even do anything to help you!.

Things will only continue to get worse. Rip-off report is doing what the better business bureau are supposed to be doing, educating people & protecting consumers from fraud! but they don't do this! Its sad really sad! & heart breaking! But the attorney general & BBB do not care how many innocent lives are ruin!

All we can do is complain here but don't expect anything to be changed this will continue to happen! or for anything to be changed! I just wish there is something that can be done about this problem!.

The better business bureau, is suppose to help the consumer & not the business but its not like that they help the business more to protect the consumer. The, same with the attorney general office they don't protect the business instead they help the business more then they do the consumer to protect them it seems not to be the case these days, just like with many government agencies who is suppose to serve & protect the custormers they let help the business more. The better business bureau is dishonest as well the attorney general office, who refuses to help you resolve anything with the company who has wronged you or cheated you out of your money! or property!.

I believe it was around the year 2000 that the BBB badgered me into joining, using the tactics others have described. $400 poorer I went the year wondering just what it was that that money was doing for me. I run a small business, and if a customer has a problem, believe me the come to me face to face and we resolve it. So... I decline renewal, only to recieve threats etc... I at one point commented "I wonder who you report the BBB to?"

Great site... I do want to comment however that there are 2 sides to every story. No business or entity will please everyone. And every company/entity will have problems. It's the ones that continuously have the same issues and/or continue to do business in a dishonest way that are at issue.

Better business bureau does not care for the consumers to protect us, they say report a business that has treated you unfairly yet they ignore you & don't resolve crap, the better business bureau is suppose to promot fair business to see to it the business treats you fairly.

The, attorney general office treats you the same way they do not help you resolve anything with the business either accept give you the run around or make excuses not to try to help you resolve anything, this website will expose the wrong doings from the better business bureau & to the attorney general office how wrong that they treat people, they treat people has bad has the crooked businesses do!.

The BBB was started by Al Capone..... They extorted money from businesses for "protection". After Capone was locked up, they tried to become a LITTLE more legit, but as stated, they're still fraudulent.

BBB of Coastal Carolina is a rip-off to consumers.

I sent repeated emails to John Trudeau (President of BBB of Coastal Carolina) trying to find out why a company with a ton of complaints like Advanced Internet Technology (AIT) is allowed to be a member of their Bureau with absolutely no response from Trudeau only to find out that AIT's membership was mysteriously terminated. Alex who works for AIT was able to shed some light on the situation when he finally admitted that Trudeau attempted to undercut his Fayetteville landlord and sales staff by dumping them and renting office space at a deep discount from AIT. The only problem with that was that John was under contract to his current landlord and when Alex accidentally let the cat out of the bag to John's landlord, AIT was booted out of the BBB quicker than a w***e in church.

Here is a copy of an email from Alex of AIT when asked why they are no longer members of the BBB:

Fair question. That's one for John Trudeau to answer. Our renewal is up before the BBB board. Talked to a board member about it. As best I can tell, John is a little put out over his Fayetteville staff, not to mention his landlord in town, finding out that he had approached AIT about office space. Turns out he has a 3-year lease with Up and Coming Magazine, but did not mention that when asking about space.

Why trust the BBB seal, if they will allow AIT to be a member just because they paid money? Trudeau knew that this company had complaints but did not care as long as they served a purpose for him and the BBB. Unlike the customers AIT has screwed over, Trudeau did not have to sit back and take it up the rear when they screwed with him, he just decided at that point at time that their complaints was starting to pile up and they were no longer suitable to be members. Must be nice to be able to pull the strings like that. Unfortunately, as one of the countless peons that turned to the BBB for protection from one of their members I did not have that luxury. The BBB seal is as meaningful as any corporate logo that a company can buy to produce a false sense of security with consumers. It is just a shame that that the John Trudeau's and the BBB's will continue to lay down with dogs when it serves them monetarily. The BBB as a whole and especially the BBB of Coastal Carolina should be investigated! They do not give a d**n about the people they are supposed to protect.

The BBB.ORG is a reflection of the local BBB because they do nothing for complaints, they list companies with high ratings that don't deserve them, they hide complaints, and they give consumers a false sense of security.

I had to file a report against Stamps.com, the BBB.org did nothing for the complaint, and I noted the number of complaints prior to filing my complaint, after I filed my complaint the number of complaints filed did not increase. My complaint wasn't resloved, but the number of unresolved complaints didn't rise either.

BBB.ORG you are a joke and I will never place any security in your orginiaztion, your seal means nothing to me.

I am glad there is a place to complain against the BBB.

What people need to realize is the B.B.B. is nothing more than a company that will say "Oh,? company is a member in good standing", as long as that company pays its dues.

I disagree with the last comment that a business must be really bad if they are listed with B.B.B as a bad rating.

In my opinion, if a company has nothing to hide, they will tell the BBB to piss off, and any senseable future customers of that company would ask ? company what their side of the story was, and then make a decision based on the whole story.

If a customer makes their decision based solely on the BBB rating, then they're probably not a customer that would do that well with what Most companies offer anyway. I like people use they're mind and form their own opinions, and don't follow like sheep, in a nice straight line, straight into the slaughter house.
C'mon people, think about it here, any company who gives ratings on companies, and collects money from them at the same time? What do you whink is going to happen with the companies who are willing to do the pay off. It's just a legal form of extortion, or misrepresentation at the least on behalf of the BBB.
Shawn Henderson

i have a small bussiness and have been riped of by them ,i could sit here and tell everyone the same storys ive read ,just go to any of them and see they are a telemarketing room thats it, its a legal shake down just like alcapone did it in his time ill protect you if you pay ,the BBB does the same thing just legaly its all a scam.

i have a small bussiness and have been riped of by them ,i could sit here and tell everyone the same storys ive read ,just go to any of them and see they are a telemarketing room thats it, its a legal shake down just like alcapone did it in his time ill protect you if you pay ,the BBB does the same thing just legaly its all a scam.

i have a small bussiness and have been riped of by them ,i could sit here and tell everyone the same storys ive read ,just go to any of them and see they are a telemarketing room thats it, its a legal shake down just like alcapone did it in his time ill protect you if you pay ,the BBB does the same thing just legaly its all a scam.

i have a small bussiness and have been riped of by them ,i could sit here and tell everyone the same storys ive read ,just go to any of them and see they are a telemarketing room thats it, its a legal shake down just like alcapone did it in his time ill protect you if you pay ,the BBB does the same thing just legaly its all a scam.

I used to be a BBB believer but now I have no faith in the BBB. I have checked different BBB sites and there is no clearly defined rules that set their ratings system. I have seen reports about companies with hundreds of complaints that have "satisfactory" rating. I have also seen companies that have 20 complaints that have "unsatisfactory" rating. What gives??? Are there no unilateral rules that govern the BBB. Who watches the watchers?? Consumer Affairs needs to investigate the BBB. They routinely extort money from the businesses.

I will give you a scenario from personal experience:

We were not a member, they called us everyday until we joined. They used all of the techniques described previously in other reports before this report. Stern, nice, mad, consumers are calling, etc...So we joined. We had a satisfactory rating and everything was peachy. We did not receive any complaints, everything was going great. As our membership was about to expire, we get calls from the BBB saying there are "inquiries" about our business and that we need to renew our membership in order for them to give us more info. We had no use for them the whole year so we did not feel the need to renew. They did nothing for us all year and made us pay them $385 dollars to join. So we did not renew. Anyway, all of a sudden, our report was marked: "unsatisfactory" and we were marked: "this company is not a member of the Better Business Bureau." I could not believe it! The BBB is the biggest scam around!

Unfortunately, consumers have the false impression that the BBB is some sort of government agency or government regulated agency. They are a for profit company out to defraud businesses out of money and give people misinformation about companies both ways!!!They give the impression that bad companies are good and good companies are bad. As long as you keep paying, no problem. When you stop paying, that's when the smearing campaign begins.

I hope that this forum:(badbusinessburea.com/ripoffreport.com) continues to flourish and keeps potential consumers informed about the "true" and "accurate" accounts of what is going on with businesses. Kudos to you gentlemen and ladies!!

I used to be a BBB believer but now I have no faith in the BBB. I have checked different BBB sites and there is no clearly defined rules that set their ratings system. I have seen reports about companies with hundreds of complaints that have "satisfactory" rating. I have also seen companies that have 20 complaints that have "unsatisfactory" rating. What gives??? Are there no unilateral rules that govern the BBB. Who watches the watchers?? Consumer Affairs needs to investigate the BBB. They routinely extort money from the businesses.

I will give you a scenario from personal experience:

We were not a member, they called us everyday until we joined. They used all of the techniques described previously in other reports before this report. Stern, nice, mad, consumers are calling, etc...So we joined. We had a satisfactory rating and everything was peachy. We did not receive any complaints, everything was going great. As our membership was about to expire, we get calls from the BBB saying there are "inquiries" about our business and that we need to renew our membership in order for them to give us more info. We had no use for them the whole year so we did not feel the need to renew. They did nothing for us all year and made us pay them $385 dollars to join. So we did not renew. Anyway, all of a sudden, our report was marked: "unsatisfactory" and we were marked: "this company is not a member of the Better Business Bureau." I could not believe it! The BBB is the biggest scam around!

Unfortunately, consumers have the false impression that the BBB is some sort of government agency or government regulated agency. They are a for profit company out to defraud businesses out of money and give people misinformation about companies both ways!!!They give the impression that bad companies are good and good companies are bad. As long as you keep paying, no problem. When you stop paying, that's when the smearing campaign begins.

I hope that this forum:(badbusinessburea.com/ripoffreport.com) continues to flourish and keeps potential consumers informed about the "true" and "accurate" accounts of what is going on with businesses. Kudos to you gentlemen and ladies!!

I used to be a BBB believer but now I have no faith in the BBB. I have checked different BBB sites and there is no clearly defined rules that set their ratings system. I have seen reports about companies with hundreds of complaints that have "satisfactory" rating. I have also seen companies that have 20 complaints that have "unsatisfactory" rating. What gives??? Are there no unilateral rules that govern the BBB. Who watches the watchers?? Consumer Affairs needs to investigate the BBB. They routinely extort money from the businesses.

I will give you a scenario from personal experience:

We were not a member, they called us everyday until we joined. They used all of the techniques described previously in other reports before this report. Stern, nice, mad, consumers are calling, etc...So we joined. We had a satisfactory rating and everything was peachy. We did not receive any complaints, everything was going great. As our membership was about to expire, we get calls from the BBB saying there are "inquiries" about our business and that we need to renew our membership in order for them to give us more info. We had no use for them the whole year so we did not feel the need to renew. They did nothing for us all year and made us pay them $385 dollars to join. So we did not renew. Anyway, all of a sudden, our report was marked: "unsatisfactory" and we were marked: "this company is not a member of the Better Business Bureau." I could not believe it! The BBB is the biggest scam around!

Unfortunately, consumers have the false impression that the BBB is some sort of government agency or government regulated agency. They are a for profit company out to defraud businesses out of money and give people misinformation about companies both ways!!!They give the impression that bad companies are good and good companies are bad. As long as you keep paying, no problem. When you stop paying, that's when the smearing campaign begins.

I hope that this forum:(badbusinessburea.com/ripoffreport.com) continues to flourish and keeps potential consumers informed about the "true" and "accurate" accounts of what is going on with businesses. Kudos to you gentlemen and ladies!!

If your not a member the BBB will blast you. Because of this the BBB blast our site because we are not a member. They post our sites store policies and do not post any other store policies of competitors that are members of the BBB. In my opinion its merely a business for profit and they are one sided for sure. The BBB or Better Business Bureau SUCKS. Barry Goggin is an a*****e of the sacramento branch. I hope business do not fold in and join the BBB for protection.

In no way do I intend to slander anyone!
with what I am about to post.

I am only stating what it is I have personally seen & learned to do over the years.

Not that it is 100% correct,but maybe it will help someone when they are down rather than let the buissness continue to rip them off!

I am a retired Body-man & I have worked for alot of body shops over the years.

I realize that this thread is not exactly about body shops but maybe somehow this will pertain.

I will tell you in Calif the agency that all body shops fear hearing from is

"Bureau of Consumer Affairs"

"Or the local courts"

Do not waste your time with the BBB
they will try to mediate for the businesses.

After all, "that is who pays them".

I have seen the courts send out a Rep who sat there & made sure one ex-boss dedicated 1/2 of each workday to the party whom had sued him.

I remember hearing at the time that it had all started with a complaint to the
Bureau of Consumer Affairs.

This Rep arrived & monitored all influx of business for aprox 3 weeks; everyday he sat there in the shop on a tin chair & watched us work.

He was in all the books, trying to see what type of money was earned on an average work month, so not to be fooled!

This all happened a long time ago
(Aprox.15 years)
Of course, the ex-boss had to pay for this Rep's time as well.

No, it is common Knowledge among all shops that the BBB is a big plus for the Buissness, for two reasons.

#1.You get that cool Plaque to hang on the wall that everyone puts a lot of faith in!

&

#2.The (BBB) is a great mediator for the shops!


You know alot of the time all the business needs is a little more time or money to complete the task that they were hired for, but the customer wont permit it.

It's allways money & time is money

However, the BBB will usually try to get the customer to allow the business one more chance to get it done, or make it rite.

The time it takes a customer to contact the BBB & the time it takes for all the channels to be crossed is usually the break the business needs.

A little more time to make a lil more money.

Besides, as someone else said,
"It is the businesses that pay the BBB"

So whom do you think they are going to protect?
The person who don't give the BBB squat,
except for complaints!

Or one of the fee paying businesses that keep the BBB alive & kicking?

Just keep in mind

"Bureau of Consumer Affairs"

Thats whom I heard it was to call, Not the BBB.

Each BBB is run by a board of which each location is independently operated.
On the issue of how to become a member, I was of my branch a the regional VP of sales...My branch diligently (I am serious here because I had many application denials) follow up on the requirements, 3 verifiable clients, verifiable business history, and other similar items etc. I am not advocate of the BBB but the owner of the branch I worked with did not play around with this issue no matter how big the company....
So I think it's fair to say on this topic it may be more related to each BBB own practices...Most clients I sold to viewed it as a necessary evil or a trade off. They wanted that seal of approval or validation. Chamber of commerce's are run very similar and have been bilking business owner for years as well...

Common sense should tell you that not all businesses/organizations are created equal. That being said, I believe that the BBB is only as effective as the information that the many member companies give to it.

How can any consumer really be sure that the information that the BBB has is accurate? They can't. If any company that applies to the BBB gives false information, in order to either secure membership or obtain a "satisfactory" rating, how are consumers to know?

If any consumer is not confident in their local BBB, then they should contact their city or county's main government offices to obtain further information.

In short, consumers as a whole should not rely soley on the word of one organization. They should make a complete check on any company they question. It is up to the consumer to protect themselves--not the BBB.

It's been mentioned that the BBB takes money. It doesn't take money, it requires that you pay to be a member.

I have a company in NY and every few months we get a complaint from the BBB office in Manhattan. The only problem with the complaints (all of them) is that the complaint is made months before we are made aware of it. I have tried calling the Manhattan BBB many many times. Phone calls and emails have never been returned. Our corporate head quarters is in NV and we deal with the BBB in Reno. They are very good and really work with people that have complaints.

In general though, the BBB is unreliable and threatening a company with going to the BBB is a joke. If you tell me you're going to file a complaint with the BBB, I'll give you their address and phone number. The BBB has no power over anything. We are members and use their logo for 1 reason... Customers feel comfortable when they see it. False sense of protection...

It's been mentioned that the BBB takes money. It doesn't take money, it requires that you pay to be a member.

I have a company in NY and every few months we get a complaint from the BBB office in Manhattan. The only problem with the complaints (all of them) is that the complaint is made months before we are made aware of it. I have tried calling the Manhattan BBB many many times. Phone calls and emails have never been returned. Our corporate head quarters is in NV and we deal with the BBB in Reno. They are very good and really work with people that have complaints.

In general though, the BBB is unreliable and threatening a company with going to the BBB is a joke. If you tell me you're going to file a complaint with the BBB, I'll give you their address and phone number. The BBB has no power over anything. We are members and use their logo for 1 reason... Customers feel comfortable when they see it. False sense of protection...

It's been mentioned that the BBB takes money. It doesn't take money, it requires that you pay to be a member.

I have a company in NY and every few months we get a complaint from the BBB office in Manhattan. The only problem with the complaints (all of them) is that the complaint is made months before we are made aware of it. I have tried calling the Manhattan BBB many many times. Phone calls and emails have never been returned. Our corporate head quarters is in NV and we deal with the BBB in Reno. They are very good and really work with people that have complaints.

In general though, the BBB is unreliable and threatening a company with going to the BBB is a joke. If you tell me you're going to file a complaint with the BBB, I'll give you their address and phone number. The BBB has no power over anything. We are members and use their logo for 1 reason... Customers feel comfortable when they see it. False sense of protection...

It's been mentioned that the BBB takes money. It doesn't take money, it requires that you pay to be a member.

I have a company in NY and every few months we get a complaint from the BBB office in Manhattan. The only problem with the complaints (all of them) is that the complaint is made months before we are made aware of it. I have tried calling the Manhattan BBB many many times. Phone calls and emails have never been returned. Our corporate head quarters is in NV and we deal with the BBB in Reno. They are very good and really work with people that have complaints.

In general though, the BBB is unreliable and threatening a company with going to the BBB is a joke. If you tell me you're going to file a complaint with the BBB, I'll give you their address and phone number. The BBB has no power over anything. We are members and use their logo for 1 reason... Customers feel comfortable when they see it. False sense of protection...

I was in the coffee area of the local dealership that was repairing my car. This was my first visit, but I sensed hostility from the other customers who were also waiting to get their cars back. After I got my car returned to me, I understood why they were so angry. The job performed on the repair was totally shoddy. I made a complaint to BBB. Weeks gone by and not a word from them. I was supposed to wait for the repair shop to respond, but they never did. I emailed BBB to act on the repairshops' neglect of my complaint. They claimed that this will be a long process and asked me to remain patient. Well, it has been more than five months. No action has been taken. After reading the posts on this website, I now understand why that is.

My family has owned a service company from 1986 and have been members of the BBB since 1999. We are being unfairly treated by the BBB too! Not only do we have to pay an annual membership fee to show the public we participate in their program, but the BBB accepts customer concerns, requests us to respond (which we do in a timely manner since 100% customer satisfaction is our main concern) then they do not make a decision. All they do is collect the information and not resolve the issues at hand.

I think that the BBB is a rip off, just like how Value Star was (which by the way Value Star closed it's doors due to bankruptcy) the only fair and non bias advocates for consumers and companies is the state agencies.

My family has owned a service company from 1986 and have been members of the BBB since 1999. We are being unfairly treated by the BBB too! Not only do we have to pay an annual membership fee to show the public we participate in their program, but the BBB accepts customer concerns, requests us to respond (which we do in a timely manner since 100% customer satisfaction is our main concern) then they do not make a decision. All they do is collect the information and not resolve the issues at hand.

I think that the BBB is a rip off, just like how Value Star was (which by the way Value Star closed it's doors due to bankruptcy) the only fair and non bias advocates for consumers and companies is the state agencies.

My family has owned a service company from 1986 and have been members of the BBB since 1999. We are being unfairly treated by the BBB too! Not only do we have to pay an annual membership fee to show the public we participate in their program, but the BBB accepts customer concerns, requests us to respond (which we do in a timely manner since 100% customer satisfaction is our main concern) then they do not make a decision. All they do is collect the information and not resolve the issues at hand.

I think that the BBB is a rip off, just like how Value Star was (which by the way Value Star closed it's doors due to bankruptcy) the only fair and non bias advocates for consumers and companies is the state agencies.

I agree that the BBB tends to be useless. They seem to be getting worse in my area (Honolulu). They haven't been of help in other areas either. They need to be closed, except maybe for a few that are doing good work. Like a lot of things these days, the offer a false sense of security and waste people's time and misuse their trust. That should not be. Close the BBB.

I agree that the BBB tends to be useless. They seem to be getting worse in my area (Honolulu). They haven't been of help in other areas either. They need to be closed, except maybe for a few that are doing good work. Like a lot of things these days, the offer a false sense of security and waste people's time and misuse their trust. That should not be. Close the BBB.

I see nothing will ever change with the BBB. They're supossed to be there for the consumers, yet, if the companies pay them alittle to shut up, well, that's really what they're there for.

As for this company's harassment and trespassing. The next time they come back, call the police again. You tell the police that you have made a report before for this same thing. When you have signs up, it IS illegal for these type of people to do this. You tell the police you want them arrested and charges presses for harassment and trespassing. The police have to arrest these poeple. You see once you tell them to atop coming on your property, and by them refusing to, the polcie do have to do their jobs. You tell them you know your rights as a citizen and you expect them to do their job.

Good luck!

I had a MAJOR problem with a solicitor coming over constantly about carpet cleaning. I reminded them I had told them in the past i had hardwood floors. I also had no trespassing and no soliciting signs up. They would also leave flyers on my doorstep next to these signs. I caught them many of times and demanded they come back and take there trash off my door or I would file a police report. All i got was a laugh in the face saying i am ridiculous. so finally of YEARS and yes i mean YEARS of fusteration of talking with these people. I finally called the police. the police would speak to these people saying not to trespass nor solicit our premises. THEY WOULD STILL COME BACK!! EVEN after I filed BBB complaints! BBB did NOTHING ! Nor did the police department for this harrassment/tresspassor and solicitor on a no soiliciting premises. I AGREE BBB is trash and dont care to show any information on complaints nor do they respond to you. I even got a paper from them stating i had to go to this address BBB gave me to type in my problem on the internet . THIS LINK WAS NOT VALID! I called and they said they would call back BUT never did! this is a year later and of course they already closed the case's saying i didnt respond quicker! ITS plain BS and im fusterated

Whenever you file a complaint to BBB canada, in a matter of two days that company become member of BBB with some handsome fees and bribe. Next things their website shows this company became member and no complaint processed since the became member. BBB is complete rip off , they take money, kick-backs from reported company and write favourable things....

BBB succccccccks.

Here is testimonial of BBB's outcome after I filed a complaint about a company on May 1st week of 2005:
(complete lie and brain wash, Every complaint brings in more membership and money for BBB, it if organized cheating mafia)

Here is testimonail of BBB frauds:

BBB Membership Status

This company has been a member of this Better Business Bureau since May 2005. This means it supports the Bureau's services to the public and meets our membership standards.This company is also a system-wide member of the Better Business Bureau.

Customer Experience

The Bureau has processed no customer complaints on this company since the Bureau file opened in May 2005.

my complaint was trashed and BBB made a business out of it.

When I filed a report against Canadian tire with BBB in toronto, they just promised me to get proper action. After few weeks I kept on following up with Dispute Resolution Supervisor -BBB of Mid-Western Ontario, Inc, and found that there is no complaints or bad remarks against Canadian Tire. Infact BBB tied up with Canadian Tire and managed to cover up my complaint and I found some good remarks on this company. Wonder what makes that supervisor of BBB to turn the whole thing favourable to Canadian Tire who cheated me with overcharging of my credit card for two times and never delivered goods.

I feel BBB is just time waste, cheat , total chaos, dishonest and corrupt.
Don't believe BBB- Toronto.

The original poster's comments are excellent and I believe the public should be more aware of the BBB's practices so they understand what the plaque really means.

Just to throw in my 2 cents, I went through phone company hell on a couple occasions, and long story short, the phone company took my complaints very seriously when I went through BBB and dropped some significant charges.

I think the lesson, as other posters pointed out, is BBB can be helpful when used as leverage against big companies in a very narrow set of circumstances. However, it should NEVER be relied on for ANY purpose.

I just wanted to echo what a number of others have said here before. I have operated a small business since the 1980's (JB Graphics, http://www.manufacturedhomebuyers.com/jbgrafx/index.htm). I received several solicitation calls because of this from the BBB, and was outraged at the sales technique they used on me. It was best described as blackmail. I was told in no uncertain terms that if anyone called to ask about my business, they would not be able to let the caller know my business had no complaints filed against it because I was not a member; in fact one salesman indicated I would be considered a bad risk for consumers (ie. they would be told that) if I DIDN'T join. Only "member" businesses were given recommendations to consumers. In essence, running a clean business meant nothing to the BBB, if they don't get their membership fee, you are basically black-balled. Being a small sole proprietor, I couldn't afford the annual bribe, and wouldn't have paid BBB after their not so veiled threat even if I could.

Advice:
If you want to check out a company with the BBB, it is advisable to do an international search.
Here's the link:
http://search.bbb.org/search.html

(I only have experience with the BBBs in Canada, so please bear with me if this is not applicable in the US)

You are a consumer checking out a company that is doing business in your area:
You go to your local BBB and do a search. Nothing comes up, so you think they are OK.
That may not be true -
Because the company's address may be in another province.
It could be just a mailbox.
Complaints are kept ONLY at the BBB closest to that mailbox.
Why is that? I don't know.

Actually, I have found the BBB to be a big help.
They have supplied information that has been very beneficial to me, and it did not cost me anything, and neither my own company, nor the company in question were members.

So, do ALL your homework and be thankful that they provide one more place to look for red flags before you make a large investment. Also check them on this site - another excellent place to look which is also at no cost. (thanks Ed)

l will like the bbb to add much time to protect the consumer.

The BBB also tried to coerce my father in law into joining the same way. They ended up bidding on a job FOR the BBB, and had to become members to be considered for the job, too. They called it "extortion" and they recognize that the BBB is not really helping consumers as much as the public thinks. Many consumers are not even aware that the BBB is funded by businesses membership dues. Some consumers think the BBB is a gov't agency or that it has authority to "do" something to a bad company.

In reality, all you can say with any certainty is that if a BBB does list a company as having a bad rating, there is probably a big problem with that company. But a positive rating is meaningless, and most if not all BBB's keep individual complaints confidential. When people call a BBB to ask if a company has complaints, they are frequently misled because of wrong assumptions about how a BBB works. The BBB perpetuates this myth and is not straitforward with the public about how they work. IMO, the BBB should be replaced by simply making ALL consumer complaints a matter of public record with the state agencies that take those complaints. It would not take long before the public--informed of this naturally--would be filing complaints in the right place, somewhere it would count, and for consumers to turn to that agencies records to do research.

Many complaints are hidden in confidentiality. The state agencies such as those in Oklahoma would have to change a state law to make complaints public. But at least those agencies already exist. It would not be spending much more money to simply make the complaints they GET, PUBLIC. You could expect opposition to this simple solution, from BBB's of course, and also most corporations, as their dirty laundry would no longer be kept under wraps.

I want to agree with the business owners who have posted about their experiences with the BBB's method of recruiting members.

I ran a small business for a few years from my home. When I first opened, I received a call from the BBB - "This is from the Better Business Bureau. We have received a few inquiries about your business. Don't worry, the good news is that there weren't any complaints. However, we couldn't give them any recommendation about your business because we don't have any records about you. We would like to come to your office to get to know your business." At first, I was interested, but after I found out from my other colleauges who owned businesses that they wanted me to pay $320 to become a member, I backed out.

A year later, I received a message in my office from a female rep from the BBB. This time, she used a very stern tone - "This is from the BBB. I need the owner or an officer to return my call right away.", and she left her number. I did not return her call because, as luck would have it, I was listening to a local talk show, and one of the callers identified himself as a "BBB salesperson" as his profession, and his job was to sell memberships. He said that the technique that they use to get the business to call back is to leave stern messages so the businesses think that someone reported them to the BBB!

Consumers may want to think twice about using the BBB as a source to investigate a company. They are better off using their state Attorney General or their local consumer reporters because there is no conflict of interest.

You are way to hard on the BBB. They have helped me and charged me nothing. I had a Compusa rebate refused because I actually bought the product when they didn't have any in stock, since it was on order I didn't get the upc in time to mail the rebate in. I complained with the BBB as soon as my rebate was denied, even though I sent a copy of the reciept that showed that it was backordered and within about a week I recieved a call from a compusa person. Within a two months I had a $50 rebate check that there was no way compusa would have given to me willingly. Most of the complaints here reflect on the local beaurcracy of a few BBB locations, but The organization as a whole, I believe to be good. Plus, Before you invest a big amount of money like over $10,000 you should have a contract and actually check the company out before handing them the cash.

Once you understand the facts below, there really isn't anything else to be said about the BBB. There is a definite conflict of interest here. The BBB is supported financially from these businesses. I found this out the hard way when I was a teenager! I was ripped off from a company which belonged to the BBB. I found out that all they had to do was pay a yearly fee to become a member! Once you understand that, you will come to the same conclusion I did at nineteen: the BBB does not represent the consumer!

----------------------------------------------
It has been reported to the "badbusinessbureau.com" that,
the BBB encourages and solicits money from the very businesses they monitor! How could this be beneficial to the consumer?

Hey Regina,

I don't think that anyone was trying to insult your intelligence. You have stated in your most recent rebuttal "I am well aware the BBB isn't a government office. Please don't insult my intellegence", however, in your rebuttal prior to your last, you have stated "It appears, their just another Government Office that needs to get out of bed and clean house".

The person who has responded to your rebuttal was just stating facts. You've also stated "Neither is the FBI. I know they are Contracted Agencies". There is no way in hell, that the FBI is a contracted agency. The FBI is a federal government, law enforcement agency, period.

The Better Business Bureaus across the nation on the other hand, are franchises. Anyways, I just thought I'd clear that up. It's obvious, that you feeling as though someone was out to attack your post and insult your intelligence, was all just a clear misunderstanding.

Take care and God Bless.

The Editor's remarks about the secrecy surrounding the origination of the BBB prompted me to search it out.

It was, indeed, an elusive and slippery topic, but I have managed to gather these facts.

(Bits about the BBB, gleaned from sources all over the Internet:)

Back in 1906, the Coca-Cola Company was one of a number of companies hauled into court to answer charges of false advertising. A remark during the trial by Coca-Cola's own attorney; "Why, all advertising is exaggerated. Nobody really believes it." led to the founding of what is known today as the Better Business Bureau.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Samuel C. Dobbs, later a president of Coca-Cola Co., called for action against false advertising, sparking the creation of the Better Business Bureau and its "code of advertising."

The BBB system was founded in 1912 by the Gentlemen's Advertising League, now known as the Ad Club of New York. The initial purpose was to curb deceptive advertising practices, but has evolved over the years to include company reliability reporting, complaint mediation, and arbitration.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

1912 The Sherley Amendment to the 1906 Food and Drugs Act outlaws false claims on packages and labels but not in other advertising media.

The Associated Advertising Clubs of
America founds the National Vigilance Committee to promote "truth in advertising" principles.

The Advertising Vigilance Association, the first group organized explicitly to promote truth in advertising, is founded in Boston; other city and state vigilance committees soon form, mostly in Northeastern and Midwestern cities and states. Around 1916 these committees begin to call themselves "Better Business Bureaus."

(A comprehensive piece from one source:)

In the 1800s, there was no regulation of advertising. Much of it was governed only by the boundaries of the imagination. Many unscrupulous sellers perpetrated numerous scams on the unsuspecting public. Miracle lotions and drugs were sold by peddlers, and newspapers were full of ads with outrageous claims designed to bilk the buying public.

At the turn of the century, newspapers and magazines took the lead in promoting more responsible advertising. In 1904, the National Federation of Advertising Clubs of America (later called the Associated Advertising Clubs of America) was formed by volunteers who dedicated their intentions to expose fraudulent schemes and their perpetrators.

The first president of the Associated Advertising Club was Samuel C. Dobbs, who later became president of the Coca-Cola Company. He was a champion of ethical advertising and, in 1911, developed the 10 commandments of advertising. During that year, advertising clubs sponsored local committees throughout the U.S. which were the precursors of the Better Business Bureau.

In 1912 a Boston advertising executive, George W. Coleman, formed a national committee which, in 1921, was named the National Better Business Bureau. The concept of the BBB expanded to other states and communities steadily throughout the next three decades.

(From yet another source:)

In 1906, the United States government charged the Coca-Cola Company with false advertising.
During the trial, the company attorney stated, "all advertising is exaggerated." Though the charges against Coca-Cola were unfounded, sales manager Samuel C. Dobbs heard the attorney's statement and was so intrigued that he began investigating truth in advertising.

In time, working with other honest, concerned businessmen, Dobbs became president of the Associated Advertising Clubs of America. The AAF adopted its Ten Commandments of Advertising in 1911.

In March, 1912, acting on an idea put forth by publisher John Irving Romer, the Advertising Men's League set up a Vigilance Committee to fight dishonest advertising and begin investigating allegations of fraud.

The committee soon went national and became an independent corporation in 1926, and eventually changed its name to the National Better Business Bureau.

By 1970 it had evolved into the Council of Better Business Bureaus. Today, the BBB fights for ethical business practices across the United States and in such countries as Canada, Mexico, Venezuela and Israel.


I was unable to locate the Ten Commandments of Advertising used by the AAF.

I imagine things would go much more smoothly if the Ten Commandments we are all familiar with were followed on a more routine basis.

I am well aware the BBB isn't a Government Office. Please don't insult my intellegence.
Neither is the FBI. I know they are Contracted Agencies.

But thank you anyway.

We were members of BBB for a year. We had a customer that was committing fraud and terminated our relationship with them. They complained to the BBB and we went to arbitration. The BBB attorney tried to get us to pay $3,000.00 to the company even though we did not owe them anything. Not only did I refuse I immediately cancelled our membership. During this time they displayed the complaint even though we had done nothing wrong. We too were mislead about the benefits of being a member. Our membership did nothing for our business except take our money and treat us like criminals. We have been in business for almost five years with no problems except one (the BBB and a crooked pay day loan company) and now have over 500 very satisfied clients. It seems to me that the BBB is more interested in taking your money and the more you pay them the less they care how much you screw the consumer. Since we do not do business with consumers (businesses only) and are regulated heavily by the federal government, state governments and other agencies we can not afford to be involved with businesses that are not on the up and up. We try to check every client out before taking thier account. We do not do business with companies or any business that takes advantage of consumers. We regularily turn down companies before an investigation just because of their industry. A word to the wise: If it walks like a duck or quacks like a duck then it is probably a duck and you should run like a gazelle and get as far away from them as fast as you can.

http://www.ftc.gov/reports/index.htm

Rather than allow the local Better Business Bureaus to answer complaints. the FTC now has reports on the various scams and ways to file complaints.

P.S.
Apparently they geve up on the BBB and local groups a long time ago!

I to have experienced unresponsiveness. I'd like to know the salary ranges for the employees of the BBB. I want to know what my Taxes are paying for.

It appears, their just another Government Office that needs to get out of bed and clean house.

I noticed it when I started looking at Work at home scams. Several times I was directed, not to the better business bureau, but to the Federal Trade Comission's many web sites. Apparently they got tired of the local guys being pocket buddies with the BBB and the crooks, I have found that although complaints are processed slowly, Once a bad business makes their list, it doesn't hept the BBB to reccomend it!

The highest profile case is the Richard McCorkle case. His scam was the darling of the BBB. I couldn't find a complaint. A complaintant filed with the FTC... Richard should be out of jail about now!

I noticed it when I started looking at Work at home scams. Several times I was directed, not to the better business bureau, but to the Federal Trade Comission's many web sites. Apparently they got tired of the local guys being pocket buddies with the BBB and the crooks, I have found that although complaints are processed slowly, Once a bad business makes their list, it doesn't hept the BBB to reccomend it!

The highest profile case is the Richard McCorkle case. His scam was the darling of the BBB. I couldn't find a complaint. A complaintant filed with the FTC... Richard should be out of jail about now!

I noticed it when I started looking at Work at home scams. Several times I was directed, not to the better business bureau, but to the Federal Trade Comission's many web sites. Apparently they got tired of the local guys being pocket buddies with the BBB and the crooks, I have found that although complaints are processed slowly, Once a bad business makes their list, it doesn't hept the BBB to reccomend it!

The highest profile case is the Richard McCorkle case. His scam was the darling of the BBB. I couldn't find a complaint. A complaintant filed with the FTC... Richard should be out of jail about now!

Jerilyn,

Please provide supporting documentation about the FTC investigating the BBB. I have not heard anything about this. I would very much like to see what they are being investigated for as I too question the ethics of the BBB myself.

I for one know what the BBB does. It hosts membership drives. Any company on its list is ok! It seems like our rebuttalist must have had a tangle with the FTC. Even as we speak, they are investigating the BBB. I suspect that this report will probably be of interest to them( bad language and all!) Oh yes, I see where they advertise their services... Here is a hint. Anybody who refuses to join or assist them in their activities tangles with them!

Thank God the Attorney General obviously looks at this site. The FTC has now made it a point to do what the Better Business Bureau refuses to do!

If the Attorney General has tangled with the BBB. Then we sir are in good company.

I am afraid the attorney generals offices do not always act in the best interest of consumers/tax payers either. The Oklahoma Attorney General wrote a letter stating they do not make complaints public info, despite this dept being called the "consumer protection unit." Other states...at least some of them, I don't know about all...do make complaints public info but you may have to be very persistent in getting it. Sadly, corporate America IS in bed with the gov't, too.

I do believe that Beth from Covington, KY stated the situation quite succinctly. As I was reading the rebuttals above hers, I was thinking that if the BBB were doing half the work of this site, there would be no need for all these complaints against the Bureau. The sad day in America is unfortunately here folks; the watchdogs (BBB, SEC, FTC, etc., ad nauseum) are now in bed with the very companies that they are supposed to be watching. Is there any wonder that they are getting up with fleas? It's literally impossible to be objective and perform without biases or prejudice when you are either receiving revenue from the dogs and/or just choosing to look the other way. Thank God for the AGs office, or the lowly consumer would be in a doghouse for sure (with no way out).

I do believe that Beth from Covington, KY stated the situation quite succinctly. As I was reading the rebuttals above hers, I was thinking that if the BBB were doing half the work of this site, there would be no need for all these complaints against the Bureau. The sad day in America is unfortunately here folks; the watchdogs (BBB, SEC, FTC, etc., ad nauseum) are now in bed with the very companies that they are supposed to be watching. Is there any wonder that they are getting up with fleas? It's literally impossible to be objective and perform without biases or prejudice when you are either receiving revenue from the dogs and/or just choosing to look the other way. Thank God for the AGs office, or the lowly consumer would be in a doghouse for sure (with no way out).

I do believe that Beth from Covington, KY stated the situation quite succinctly. As I was reading the rebuttals above hers, I was thinking that if the BBB were doing half the work of this site, there would be no need for all these complaints against the Bureau. The sad day in America is unfortunately here folks; the watchdogs (BBB, SEC, FTC, etc., ad nauseum) are now in bed with the very companies that they are supposed to be watching. Is there any wonder that they are getting up with fleas? It's literally impossible to be objective and perform without biases or prejudice when you are either receiving revenue from the dogs and/or just choosing to look the other way. Thank God for the AGs office, or the lowly consumer would be in a doghouse for sure (with no way out).

I do believe that Beth from Covington, KY stated the situation quite succinctly. As I was reading the rebuttals above hers, I was thinking that if the BBB were doing half the work of this site, there would be no need for all these complaints against the Bureau. The sad day in America is unfortunately here folks; the watchdogs (BBB, SEC, FTC, etc., ad nauseum) are now in bed with the very companies that they are supposed to be watching. Is there any wonder that they are getting up with fleas? It's literally impossible to be objective and perform without biases or prejudice when you are either receiving revenue from the dogs and/or just choosing to look the other way. Thank God for the AGs office, or the lowly consumer would be in a doghouse for sure (with no way out).

What I am attempting to do here may put my job in jeopardy. But I feel it's necessary to clear up a few things.

There are local BBB's that care about helping consumers. I started working for the BBB through a temp service and I thought I was lucky just to get a job because the job market is nearly non-existent where I actually live. (I cannot provide my real city because I don't want to lose my job.)

Over time, I've found that helping consumers avoid scams and helping them after they've been scammed has become a passionate pursuit for me. Before our BBB adopts a new local business member, it has to be approved by me.

What I do is look through the complaints that we have received on the company. If there have been more than two or three complaints in the last three years, I take a hard, serious look at this business. If necessary, I will contact those consumers who complained. I will also do some research on the internet. If there have been no complaints, I look at what kind of service they are selling or product. If it is something questionable, I point it out to my boss and make my recommendation. More often than not, if I tell my boss that this company does not look legit, he will defer to me on the matter and take my suggestion.

Our BBB has rejected prospective members because of numerous complaints (or just bad business practices.)

When consumers in our area get scammed by a company, we aggressively pursue the information we need to report the problem to the public and to government resources. We get in touch with local media and write press releases.

I love my job. I don't always agree with upper management decisions, but I do everything I can to help as many people as I can.

I as a business owner, upstanding and ethical my whole career 7 years in my first business and 3 plus in my current business, I have had NOTHING but grief from this unfair body of business that "thinks" they are the king of the business world.

As a business owner, they never looked into my business- they just signed me - if they had problems with my agreement (they claim that my client agreement is missing few things from a state of CA civil code - which I do not feel that I am applicable to in the first place, nor does my attorney!)..

so I join (in NOv. 2003) and they only took the side of two clients who had no right to do what he did to me - I am someone who has worked so hard for these people who only had their best interests at heart (and paid others to help me to do what I do to work for these clients). I am the victim -

I joined the BBB in November of 2003 and the nightmare began - all they wanted was my money and stoked me for months to "join" - so good for your business etc. etc. So I thought why not - I joined to show the public that I have nothing to hide -

I did not join to cultivate bad press - when there is no bad press to be had... I was just fine, if a client ever has a "problem" I resolve it and everyone's happy. Now they just go to the BBB and the BBB decides if they are having a good day or a bad day - flip a coin - okay - it's a day I side with the consumer today!

If anything I have ripped myself off by joining this idioitic club that only wants to take our money to join and or file any complaint that they can get. They promised to protect me, as a small business owner - and they did not do that - they treated me like crap (I had 2 unwarranted complaints - both to which I provided a great resolution to -nope wouldn't Hear my case - wouldn't listen to my idea to resolve - arbutrate? What? I think not!

I refuse to be a victim, I have worked hard for years to reach the point I am at now with my business and my clients are HAPPY and have always been happy (just had a super bad unlucky month this last February - unbelievable - always being tested - huh?). I am not going to stop fighting and I refuse to let the BBB give my good name a bad name. Why would I join a group like this if I expected to be complained against - NO WAY - would I be waiting for a chance to ruin my reputation? It makes me so mad that these "big guns" have nothing on their so called BBB reports when they rip off hundreds of people a year. I rip off no one, as a business owner and a small one at that (who never had a backer to get me going - all via blood, sweat and tears!)- I have been RIPPED OFF!

AND I AGREE WITH:

Rebuttal Consumer Suggestion
Submitted: 3/17/2004 11:43:34 AM Modified: 3/17/2004 11:08:02 PM

BBB, It has no authority.

The BBB has the reputation of actually being able to do something about a companies form of business. It has no authority. It also has the reputation that it's satisfactory or unsatisfactory ratings mean something. THE BBB ratings are not correct. People go to the BBB when they realize they (not the company) messed up and screwed themselves. They expect the BBB to fix their problems cause they can't fix their own. The companies are following their own rules and regulations. If customers were to read things and contact someone when they first receive notice of any form of bill's... then the customer wouldn't feel obligated to go to the BBB because the customer would have been smart enough to read what they were signing.

BBB does not have all the correct info and they do not portray companies correctly. they are consumer friendly,, and they are just a pain in the butt for companies.

Rae - Whitter, California
U.S.A.

The BBB has the reputation of actually being able to do something about a companies form of business. It has no authority. It also has the reputation that it's satisfactory or unsatisfactory ratings mean something. THE BBB ratings are not correct. People go to the BBB when they realize they (not the company) messed up and screwed themselves. They expect the BBB to fix their problems cause they can't fix their own. The companies are following their own rules and regulations. If customers were to read things and contact someone when they first receive notice of any form of bill's... then the customer wouldn't feel obligated to go to the BBB because the customer would have been smart enough to read what they were signing.

BBB does not have all the correct info and they do not portray companies correctly. they are consumer friendly,, and they are just a pain in the butt for companies.

Check out Clark Howard's website.

What is there is fine, but think about topics that are NOT there. Companies that have dozens of complaints on this site simply do not seem to exist at Howard's "complaint forum".

Mr. Howard seems entirely too self-defensive to be a true consumer advocate. He looks out for himself with the same zeal that he supposedly looks out for consumers.

Can't be done, folks. One cannot expose corporate wrongdoing while constantly trying to cover one's own butt. One cancels out the other. It takes a bold personality to face down corporate crooks, and one's own best interests cannot always be in the forefront to do this.

Mr. Howard recommends the Better Business Bureau because it is the politically correct thing to do. And perhaps he has fallen into the trap of believing the BBB's own propaganda.

This forum is more interested in getting out the real truth. If you want the "real scoop" on a given company, the Better Business Bureau is simply not the agency of first choice to get it.

Therefore, this post exists to let YOU, the consumer, know how the Better Business Bureau system is set up and why it is inherently untrustworthy.

Clark Howard is fine as far as he goes. IMHO, he does not go nearly far enough. If he did, he would be addressing the same concerns and issues that we are addressing here about the Better Business Bureau and lots more!

I sometimes listen to Clark Howard's radio show and he always gives good advice and tips on how to protect yourself and he always tells consumers to contact the BBB to check a company's report. He seems like a pretty smart guy and I don't think he gains any monetary value by recommending people to the BBB, does anyone have any information?

Yeah, you or anyone else can call the BBB to ask about a company you intend to do business with.

BUT READ THE ABOVE COMMENTS TINA!

We are/were business owners who are stating, quite factually, that the businesses you are inquring about have PAID the BBB for a membership rating.

READ it Tina. We ARE whining because the BBB is in the business of selling information and taking money with NO AUTHORITY to do anything about a business that supposedly is corrupt.

Tina, YOU can be a member of the BBB. Just pay em'. That's the ONLY requirement. They'll take your money and run an ad for you in their advertising directory.

This web site is hopefully giving people like you, the unaware consumer, knowledge about a company that is doing NOTHING for consumers while masquerading as a consumer watchdog.

READ the entire web site Tina.

Yeah, you or anyone else can call the BBB to ask about a company you intend to do business with.

BUT READ THE ABOVE COMMENTS TINA!

We are/were business owners who are stating, quite factually, that the businesses you are inquring about have PAID the BBB for a membership rating.

READ it Tina. We ARE whining because the BBB is in the business of selling information and taking money with NO AUTHORITY to do anything about a business that supposedly is corrupt.

Tina, YOU can be a member of the BBB. Just pay em'. That's the ONLY requirement. They'll take your money and run an ad for you in their advertising directory.

This web site is hopefully giving people like you, the unaware consumer, knowledge about a company that is doing NOTHING for consumers while masquerading as a consumer watchdog.

READ the entire web site Tina.

Yeah, you or anyone else can call the BBB to ask about a company you intend to do business with.

BUT READ THE ABOVE COMMENTS TINA!

We are/were business owners who are stating, quite factually, that the businesses you are inquring about have PAID the BBB for a membership rating.

READ it Tina. We ARE whining because the BBB is in the business of selling information and taking money with NO AUTHORITY to do anything about a business that supposedly is corrupt.

Tina, YOU can be a member of the BBB. Just pay em'. That's the ONLY requirement. They'll take your money and run an ad for you in their advertising directory.

This web site is hopefully giving people like you, the unaware consumer, knowledge about a company that is doing NOTHING for consumers while masquerading as a consumer watchdog.

READ the entire web site Tina.

Tina, the BBB most certainly does not share every complaint nor do they kick out members that easily. You should check with the BBB before doing business with a company ONLY because if that company has a bad rating at a BBB, you know there's a problem...but a good rating at a BBB is meaningless because you have no idea how many complaints are on file. Also, reply to a complaint is not the same as resolving it. The BBB misleads consumers and is NOT a consumer protection organization, it is a business organization funded by businesses, and that's who the BBB looks out for--businesses. Do you work for the BBB Tina?

I have used the BBB for years to check reports on companys BEFORE I did business with them. I have used member's of the BBB for many things from home repair to auto problems. If a member company does not respond to your complaint they are kicked out of the bureau and it is reported to the public. You have to check out a company before you do business with them, if company A tells you that home repairs are going to be $5000.00 and company B tells you $1500.00 you should investigate both companies, I think a lot of people get burned by their own greed. You get what you pay for. If telemarketer on the phone tells you that he will send you an unsecured credit card if you send him $500.00 and you know that your credit is so bad that no other company would even consider giving you a credit line, you kind of deserve to have your money taken. Come on people, use some common sense about things. The BBB is not going to be able to get your money back for you, no one is. I don't feel sorry for stupid people who believe every pop-up ad they get and fall for it, or the ones who read in the paper that you can make $1000.00 a week stuffing envelopes at home and send the company money for information on it. Once again the persons own greed is the culprit here. Have you read some of the stupid complaints that are posted on this website? My interest rate is to high, (I assume they can read, because their interest rates are disclosed when they take out a loan or sign a credit card contract) or I bought furniture on the internet for this ridiculously low price and never received it. This website is full of suckers and crybabies.

Max in Vancouver, I agree.
Please see my response above. I was the owner of a carpet cleaning business, and your response completely validates their "collection" techniques for finding new business.

The went through our local, free, "throw-away" ad papers and found my small display ad, which, incidentally, gave me all the business I could handle.

My call from the BBB started out with, "Don't worry, there have been no complaints about your business, but we note that you are not a member of the BBB and we can't give you a rating."

It's a shakedown. It really is. For around $200 bucks or so, I could be a member and have a display ad in THEIR directory.

The comment above about Mitsubishi and the BBB and they they are simply buying a placque for the wall is completely true too.

One last thing, and I think this is important. There is a consumer radio talk show called the Clark Howard show, http://www.clarkhoward.com and he frequently makes reference to his listening audience to contact the BBB about shady consumer practices. I have tried to send his website emails concerning the BBB but it's only set up to do LIVE call in's during his radio show. I don't have the time, but man, would I love to sic' Clark Howard onto the BBB. This guy would really blow the joint open. He would take it personal that he has been recommending the BBB to his listening audience and then find out that they are a FRAUD.

I welcome anyone else, and encourage someone (with more clout than I) to follow through on this. You could get national recognition. I ain't kiddin'!

I've never been terribly impressed with the BBB, given their total lack of clout or any ability to enforce their standards. However, I always felt that they served a useful purpose for consumers and had some ability to help limit the damage an unscrupulous business could do to a community.

I don't feel that way anymore.

I own a VERY small business. It's just me, no employees. I put a display ad in this year's Yellow Pages for the first time, which I suppose is how they found me.

One morning about a month ago, I came into the office to find a message from the local BBB on my answering machine. The caller gave no details what the call was about, so I assumed the worst: that a customer had called the BBB with a complaint. So I immediately returned the call.

What I got was a ten minute sales pitch proposing that I join the BBB. It took her ten minutes to get to the price for a one year membership: $698, if I recall. That was when I hung up.

Maybe I am naive, but I am disillusioned with the BBB for the following reasons:

1) They took advantage of their own reputation and tricked ME into calling THEM in the first place.

2) That they take money from businesses makes them lose credibility as a consumer protection organization.

3) $698 is more than I spend on advertising in a typical YEAR.

I guess their money has to come from somewhere, but I now have serious misgivings about the intentions of the BBB.

Read about City Mitsubishi on this site and ask yourself is this what to expect from a business with a SAT rating? The plaque on their wall was bought not earned! There is no indication from BBB that they use deceptive and unfair practices. If people don't beleive me I dare them to visit the dealership when they are not busy and go into their F&I office. I advise you to have a hidden tape recorder and go apply for a concealed weapons permit because you will need a means to defend yourself. They must be one of the worst dealerships to visit in this country. It would not surprise me if they were the worst dealership in the world. I have met others who were bent over by this dealership. Guess what this dealership still has a SAT after filing a complaint 3 years ago! So if you visit BBB and look up this business consumers will have the false impression they are a good dealership to visit. If you believe their rating of this place, visit them at your on risk!

This is in response to "Randy" from "Holland, OH" (probably not his real name or location mind you).

So, this entire web-site, all the complaints by different people for different companies is all just a front to cover up the real conspiracy: The Bad Business Bureau is out to get the Better Business Bureau???

Pause and think about that for a second: does that make any sense whatsoever?

Why in the world would someone create a web-site, spend countless hours of their own time and money on up-keep to report ALL bad businesses as some sort of veiled attempt to undermine the BBB? If you think about it that doesn't make any sense.

As far as I can tell, this web-site is simply doing what the BBB is supposed to do; make consumers alert of bad companies.

Also, if anyone read any of the bunches of rebuttals before yours and then read your little weak one and were then to think that in fact you were the one that was right and all these other people were wrong, well I have no ending for that sentence except to say that that's pretty weak of you "Randy".

To the person who believes all these statements are made up...nice try, but do you think all the people came here with their complaint just because they woke up one morning and said, "hey, I love the BBB but think I'll file a complaint on them anyway?" I have a letter from the BBB stating they DO NOT make individual complaints public information...all they do is change a company's rating IF or WHEN they feel some undetermined number of unresolved complaints has built up.

The person who said the BBB considers it resolved even if it's actually not is correct. Our BBB only changed a particular company's rating to unsatisfactory, despite numerous angry clients, when the business left the state and stopped paying membership dues. In the years that company was here, they ripped off dozens of customers for hundreds of thousands of dollars by telling the public there were "no complaints." Most of us only find out this is how the BBB works when we have filed a complaint on a business and realize the public can't access it.

We hope to warn others to dig much deeper to find out about companies, not to just ask the BBB. We don't get paid for that and the only pleasure we derive from it is knowing/hoping we helped someone avoid a rip off. This site gets millions of hits, and that bugs anyone who doesn't want this kind of info known. Those who come here vehemently denying this is how it works are shills for bad businesses and the BBB, and are using "disinformation" tactics. If you can't understand the concept of wanting to help someone avoid a rip off, without any compensation, then good luck trying to fit in in life.

First of all, I know this won't make it to the website, because you seem like a person who can't face criticism, only dish it out. I noticed that when anyone defended someone that you wrote an "expose" on, you came right back to defend your view and negate anything positive that was previously said. That to me screams of pathetic behavior disorder. My guess is that you once owned a company that locked horns with the BBB and now you want revenge. Thank God that nobody sees your website, anyhow.

I came to it because of an associate in business thought you were some kind of kook and he wanted me to see it for myself. But you offer no real help of any kind.

THe BBB has helped me and my company out on many occasions, and I am grateful that they are there.
You have either greatly exagerated your BBB experiences, or made them up entirely. I am betting on the latter.

I have been ripped off by my builder Reynen and Bardis. I contacted the BBB prior to my home purchase and there were no complaints. Wow a company that builds such a complicated product as a house and does not have any complaints must be good. Wrong. I have filed several complaints with the BBB since my purchase. These complaints do not sho on the Reynen and Bardis file since they responded. No they have not fixed my home, but they did write back to the BBB so my case is closed. Pretty worthless if you ask me.

I started a business here in Long Beach, and wanted to believe that the BBB only accepted ETHICAL businesses and held its members to high standards. BOY WAS I WRONG!

the BBB is nothing more than a shakedown outfit. The REAL LOSERS are the consumers who blindly believe the BBB is looking out for them and ALSO the ETHICAL businessmen who beleive the same thing. I was of the opinion that the BBB's role was to weed out and police the business community in our city. WRONG WRONG WRONG! Itis there only to generate income for themselves and to protect UNETHICAL businesses who sign up. I had an aquaintance who stated that he ALWAYS joined the BBB because it gave an air or legitmency to his business - Even though he had the morals of a horney tomcat!

Thanks for turning on the light!

Michael,

I dont blame you for what you are saying, as most consumers are like yourself and under a total misconception as to what the BBB really is, and what it does and does not do. In spite of your attitude, and my belief that you are not a consumer but more likely a BBB member and or employee/sales person, I will re iterate some of what I have said above and in other Rip-off Reports to refresh your memory.

You say we are trying to make a name for ourselves? We have already accomplished that. Industry experts say, badbusinessbureau.com and RipoffReport.com get up to 4 times more traffic than the BBB does on the Internet.

YOU stated above, The president at that Bureau is ALWAYS appearing somewhere to warn people and tell them to look out. ..Id say your president is the one trying to make a name by creating a revenue stream, drumming up business from new memberships.

I noticed you did not address the above claims from both consumers and businesses alike?

How did we rip-off their name? Dont you know the difference between Better and bad? And you should know, BBB or the CBBB already tried to make the same ridiculous claim.

In defense of the BBB; I am sure there are some BBB offices that are more active in the community, BUT, their BAD policies are all the same, everywhere. Furthermore, the lack of continuity is one of the problems we have with the BBB.

You also cannot have the FOX guarding the hen house!!

The BBB is deceptive as to what it can do, and will do.

The BBB memberships are paid, and NOT earned!, which is the biggest deception to consumers nationwide! Why? Because they lead consumers to believe that the evaluation is based solely on complaints filed. We have evidence to the contrary.

And, my favorite comment you made, also commonly made by "rip-off companies", ...you stated, the BBB here has been in service since the early 1900's... must be doing something right? ...yeah right, ...When the BBB first started, like many companies out there that have been in business for many years that eventually get bought out by some BIG company that take them over; do you think the NEW company taking over will have the same standards and integrity the original owners did? They need to recoup their investment somehow! But, in my opinion, this is not the case with the BBB. In most cases, you can never say "all" about anything in life, that being said; in this case, in my opinion, the BBB's modus operandi is, and has always been the same since its inception, a misrepresentative organization for BAD businesses to pay for protection against any claims made against them.

So for generations, since inception, its been business as usual. ..A Rip-off deceptive organization to consumers, that is only more worried about collecting fees and to protect those members that pay those fees to them every year, by simply NOT giving them an unsatisfactory rating when they have dozens if not hundreds of complaints against them. The only time these members will get an unsatisfactory rating, is when the local authorities or the local media is about to bust them, the BBB quickly changes its rating to an unsatisfactory one.

One last thought. Anyone reading this, ..call your local BBB and ask them, how many people do they employee in your city locally. Then, ask them how many of them are sales people who call businesses about joining the BBB to pay them memberships. Then, ask them how many people they have working, answering phones for consumer complaints. ANSWER: ..the BBBs I know of only have one person taking complaints and sending out (useless) complaint forms. Most BBB offices employ 5 or more sales people and as many as 30 plus people, just to get businesses to join the BBB.

ED Magedson
EDitor@ripoffreport.com

The Better Business Bureau in our area is an exceptional service! Not only have I had on a few occassions found them to be extremely helpful, there isn't a week that goes by that I don't hear about them exposing rip off artists and scams throught the media (tv, radio, newspapers). The president at that Bureau is ALWAYS appearing somewhere to warn people and tell them to look out. I have heard some real nightmare stories about home improvement scams, telemarketing scams, etc. It seems to me, if it weren't for this service, there would be alot of people out there who would really be in trouble! Lord knows every state has different consumer protection laws, Indiana probably being the worst of them all. Evermore the importance to have somewhere to turn...they have made their presence known and I would go to them first before even TRYING to call the State to try to get help on anything!

I feel like you have taken it apon yourself to attempt to ruin the honorable name of an outstanding orginization to make a name for yourself, which I might add, you ripped off THEIR name!

In all fairness, if they were that bad, why are they still here after all of these years? I have been told the BBB here has been in service since the early 1900's... must be doing something right?

I have read many posts on this site where people say they have consulted with the Better Business Bureau and gotten the same response that Cindy did; "no complaints, no problems with this member", only to find out later that that is not the case.

The BETTER Business Bureau has created a myth about itself. They actively campaign for folks to lodge complaints with them, making people feel that they have done the responsible thing and that their complaint will be investigated. They perpetuate the lie that they have power, when they actually have no more power than the consumer making the complaint.

By doing this, the BBB actually distracts people from doing things that would be far more constructive, such as contacting the State Attorney General and other REAL consumer protection agencies. With all the BBBs assurances that matters will be fully investigated, no one really needs to do those things, do they? The BBB will do all that for you, right? WRONG?

Once the complaint is lodged, it goes into the Secret Files. It is swept under the rug until the company becomes so outrageous and so well known for being a total screw-up that the BBB is more or less forced into making it public. Meanwhile, consumers get stung, and stung hard! One will generally hear about crooked companies through the grapevine or from ones neighbors (or on this site) before a peep is heard from the BBB.

Why? Well, the BBB will lose the membership fee from that company once they blow the whistle on them. No one willingly bites the hand that feeds them, do they? Sounds like some kind of old-time Mafia hush money racket: pay us and well keep it quiet AND we will mislead folks into thinking that they have complained to someone who actually cares and will do something. Mwa-ha-ha-ha.

What a sweet deal for the BBB and businesses that are not doing business honestly. If I were going to be a crooked businessperson, the first check I wrote would be to the BETTER Business Bureau for membership and immunity!

Footnote:
There are basic differences in business methods between BBB and bbb.com. This site accepts VOLUNTARY contributions, but it does not sell itself for them. If a business wants to contribute, fine. But, if a complaint comes in about a contributing business, it goes public. That is the mission of this site as I understand it. We could use a bit more of this type of honesty in all levels of society today.

I like that; its what makes this site a VALUABLE and LEGITIMATE resource. No games, no secrecy, no paid for immunity. It allows for public rebuttals by the company-FREE-unless there are more than four (I hope that is right?) complaints lodged against that company. Then there is a fee, but I dont remember how much. (ED?) The fee is not charged until AFTER the complaints are lodged, not BEFORE.

If a business is messing up enough to get more than four complaints on this site, I do not find it unfair that they get asked to contribute to its upkeep. There are a few folks that seem to find it outrageous or wrong to charge that fee. The overhead for keeping this site going has got to be enormous; I would rather see the offending business or parties have to pay rather than the complainant (who has already been ripped off by the offending business).

It doesnt surprise me that the BETTER Business Bureau would hassle the badbusinessbureau.com. The bbb.com gets hassled/sued/harassed/bothered by all SCAM companies. That tells me a lot; what is being done here WORKS!

Legitimate companies have no gripes with bbb.com and they dont bother joining the BBB!

When we checked out a home builder at the BBB in 2000 we were told there were "no compliants" by the BBB in the area the builder built in. We also did other research and found nothing, so we bought. The house started to fall apart and it was discovered it was missing code required materials. The buidler refused to honor the warranty. I filed a complaint with the BBB among other places. In networking with other home owners I discovered that both the BBB and our state's attorney generals office DID have complaints on file about this builder BEFORE we bought. I pursued this matter and now have letters from both our BBB, and our state's attorney general, stating they do not make consumer complaints publicly available. The BBB's rating system eventually changed the builder's rating to unsatisfactory, but in the three years it took for them to do that, a lot of people were lied to and harmed, and are now fighting to save their homes and their finances. The BBB probably only changed this builder's rating because he left the state and is no longer a member of the local BBB. In areas where he's paying his membership the BBB's still rate him satisfactory but I know of many complaints filed in all areas he builds now.

My first experience with the BBB was as a business owner. A BBB rep contacted me to let me know that an consumer "inquiry" had been made regarding my firm, but that since I was not a "member" they could not provide any information to the consumer.

Whether or not an actual inquiry was ever made, I don't know, but this was used as a "foot in the door" tactic in order to sell me a membership to the BBB.

I say "sell" because all the rep was interested in was signing my firm up, and collecting the membership fee.

The BBB was pitched to me as nothing more than a way to keep consumer complaints from going public, and as a way to discourage law suits.

Moreover, if I didn't "join" then they couldn't provide a favorable report when future consumer inquires were received.

No questions or inquiry regarding my business practices were ever made. Whether or not I might have been a saint or a crook couldn't have concerned them less.

I was both very dissapointed by the experience as, like most consumers (I assume) I had always thought the BBB actually existed to help consumers.

I declined the invitation to "join" and would never even consider contacting the BBB as a consumer for any reason whatsoever.

As I only learned the truth about the BBB as a business owner they had approached, I simply want consumers to hear how the system really works.

I have been in the computer training business for almost 7 years. I worked for one school called Career Blazers (now Javelin Tech). There are no Instructors at this school, just computer tutorials.

Victims are led to believe that they are purchasing "real classes"; only after they enroll do the victims discover that they have just spent thousands of dollars to sit and listen to computer tutorials.

The complaints at this school were so high, I was forced to quit as I was concerned about my personal reputation. After going to work for another school, I was still hearing of complaints about Career Blazers (Javelin Tech).

Then, I went to the BBB's website and discovered that the BBB indicates that this school has had no complaints in 3 years. Hogwash! I know for a fact this isn't true and can name names of people who filed complaints against this school with the BBB.

Why is the BBB stifling complaints? Is there a payoff system behind the scenes? I have been telling everyone that I know about this website. Keep up the good work!

First of all, the BBB is not "working" for the consumer. They are "paid" by the merchant. (RED ALERT!)

Second, from a merchant point of view. Why would I want to allow some 3rd party to "compel" me to attempt to resolve a disagreement through them, when they don't represent the consumer?

Merchants - don't join.
AND ask them to place you on their "no call" list if they get a complaint.

Just in passing, how many people contact the BBB -* BEFORE * they buy? Very few...

I owned/ran a two-man carpet cleaning business in the California South Bay area. I advertised in the local "throw-away" papers that are distributed at shopping centers and liquors stores in the areas that I chose to work in. These were enough to supply me with a number of leads to keep two people busy cleaning carpets about 6 or 7 days a week.

One day I received a call from the Local Better Business Bureau that went something like this:

"Hello Mr. Murray. This is John Smith and I'm a representative of the Torrance/South Bay BBB, and we have received a number of inquiries concerning your business. There have been no complaints, you understand, but we are unable to give out any information on your business."

At which time the call turns into a "information collecting call" on hours of service, rates, etc.

Then, the closer: "Would you like to become a member of the BBB and advertise in our directory?"

I think he wanted a $120.00 for the membership, then the standard display rates were quoted, yada-yada-yada.

I declined at the time, and didn't give it any more thought. Until a month later when I got another call from yet another "John Smith" type with the same sales lines that I now recognized as being read from a prompt list.

It all dawned on me that the BBB was a shake down company. They couldn't supply me with the names of the "several inquiries to my business," of course...I wasn't a member, you understand. And I would loose out on the new level of respect commanded by a company with membership in the BBB, unless I coughed up my fair share.

BBB. They are a Business, but they are not a Bureau (whatever that attempts to convey) and they are certainly not Better.

BBB. Baloney, Baloney, Baloney.

I filled in the BBB's complaint form and named the BBB as the entity I wished to complain about.

I stated that the BBB has un-ethical practices and basically blackmails businesses into joining, hides real reports and cover up others etc etc.

They responded by blocking my IP address from accessing their sites company research section, complaint section and complaint form section.

Now there's an honest business!

I filled in the BBB's complaint form and named the BBB as the entity I wished to complain about.

I stated that the BBB has un-ethical practices and basically blackmails businesses into joining, hides real reports and cover up others etc etc.

They responded by blocking my IP address from accessing their sites company research section, complaint section and complaint form section.

Now there's an honest business!

I filled in the BBB's complaint form and named the BBB as the entity I wished to complain about.

I stated that the BBB has un-ethical practices and basically blackmails businesses into joining, hides real reports and cover up others etc etc.

They responded by blocking my IP address from accessing their sites company research section, complaint section and complaint form section.

Now there's an honest business!

I filled in the BBB's complaint form and named the BBB as the entity I wished to complain about.

I stated that the BBB has un-ethical practices and basically blackmails businesses into joining, hides real reports and cover up others etc etc.

They responded by blocking my IP address from accessing their sites company research section, complaint section and complaint form section.

Now there's an honest business!

Where the BBB fell short, The Rip Off Report Came through for me.

I discovered the Rip Off report about a month ago. My husband and I had recently been approached by Bernard Haldane and Associates to use their services, for a nominal fee of a little over $8,000. Neither he nor I are the kind to hand over that kind of money without any guarantee in a contract. And the contract provided to us by Bernard Haldane would not guarantee anything in return for this fairly large amount of money.

After our meeting with them and the loosely worded contract I started searching various chapters of the BBB for more information. I found a couple of resolved complaints on the company at the different BBB sites, however my search on Google.com led me to the Bernard Haldane Watch website that led me to the Rip Off Report. I was shocked and thankful to read the experiences other consumers had had with BH&A before we had made a financial commitment to them.

My next experience with the Rip Off Report came about today when I had received a postcard in the mail from a company called WCP claiming they were "Going Nuts Trying to Reach Me". So I headed off to Google.com to do another search. Again I was lead to the Rip Off Report to find out that there were other consumers who had actually called the number and the horrible experiences they had had with this company.

So twice now the Rip Off Report has saved me money where the BBB had nothing to offer regarding information from these widespread scams.

Cheers to The Rip Off Report AKA badbusinessbureau.com and Thank you for providing an arena where the consumer's voice can be heard loud and clear!

Great news on the information I've provided above. The AG of MD and the AG of VA are investigating this company and the BBB. I have also been in contact with the American Chamber of Commerce. They are going to launch a full investigation not only to the company I've tried to report but the BBB's and CBBB. I have also notified this situation to the Justice Depts Consumer division, The US Chamber of Commerce, and the FTC. Hopefully now someone is listening.

As I previously stated, I was emailing all the BBB's that have the scam company in their area. Tonight, I recieved an email by accident. (God know's the CBBB is gonna hate this). This email was a response email to all the BBB's I contacted. It states:

"Attention ALL!

BBB Midland requested comfirmation on this email from Ron Berry at CBBB. Here is his response, forwarded by request.
d**k
:::::::::::::::

d**k,
We did not instruct these people to contact all those Bureaus. They first contacted us about their complaint last week, and we told them to contact the local BBB (Washington, DC). Washington turned them down, so they apparently decided on their own to contact all Bureaus where the company does business.

We filed a hot line complaint with the DC Bureau for turning down the complaint as an employee-employee dispute. It is still pending. We do not know whether there is any validity to these claims or whether he is just a disgruntled former employee. If they really have evidence to back up their claim, they need to submit it.

Ron

PS. d**k, could you cut and paste this response to the email you received and "respond to all," so all the bureaus will get it? Thanks, that will save me alot of time addressing emails."

end of email. :::::::::

Now, you tell me, he's full of it. I did not come to them last week but for several weeks. He did not put a "Hot Line" complaint against Washington DC, above is exactly what he did, nothing. And if I had evidence crap, all the moron has to do is look in his data base himself. He definetly is covering this scam. I sent him a reply and told him just look, the evidence is right there is front of you. We will see who's laughing tomorrow, when I see the Attorney General of Maryland.

After I sent in the above rebuttal, I sent in a complaint to every BBB that this scam company is in. I wanted to make sure that I had done everything I could in notifing the BBB's. I have not recieved any replies as of yet, but did find something very interesting.

The original P{recision I have put a complaint on, as you may remember first didn't exsist until I gave them their information, which was still posted incorrectly. Then the company exsisted only with what I gave them and some incorrect information, now today I look them up to see if my complaint had been acknowlegded and to my surprise, they are now a new member of the Washington DC BBB.

So I sent them a email letter asking for an explaination. I doubt I'll ever hear anything from that letter. Now, I'm going to the Attorney General with the 1st, 2nd, and todays printout on this company. (He happens to be a friend of my family) I hope the BBB and CBBB are reading this, people now know, and I have proof, that your organization is just there to take money as bribes nothing less.

You should go down with each of these scamming companies. You are no better then them, you are actually worse. You cover up and lie to the very people that where always told to go to you for help, instead of your help they find themselves even worse off. I hope your happy with yourselves.

I myself have had alot of problems recently with the CBBB and my local BBB. I was recently fired from Precision Garage Doors in Beltsville Maryland because I refused to go along with their scams. Their company and their many many alias are involved in scams nation wide over 30 states.

I originally contacted the BBB on 5-6-02 because I wanted to notify them of what the company is doing, at that time I had no idea this scam was so incredible big. My original complaint was filed with my local BBB which is the BBB of Washington DC and Eastern PA.

At this time when I looked them up on their national data base, there was no Precision Garage Doors in Maryland. Then I received a leter post-marked 5-7-02 I had reported their inflation on prices, their various names (that I knew at the time), harassments and threats myself and family indured,and how their scam works. With their response I recieved a copy of my complaint (which was altered), and for a company that did not excist, they have complaint dates listed with my complaint on 4-8-02, 4-14-02, & 4-28-02.

The next day, they were now listed on their national data base with a satisfactory reporting stating that they haven't had any complaints, with inproper dates of in business, etc. And their response to me was; "After reviewing the information provided to us, it appears that your grievance does not fit within the normal scope of complaint activity we would process. The BBB does not process complaints related to landlord-tenant disputes, labor or wage disputes, civil matters, etc., unless the complaints is a requets for mediation or arbitration services."

So, on 5-12-02, I e-mailed the CBBB and told them everything I knew as of that date. I asked them to further invistagate the situation and make consumers aware of this scam. On 5-13-02, I recieved a follow-up e-mail from their techhelp. They stated, "Please contact your local BBB."

At this point I am getting outraged, I didn't e-mail their tech help, but the CBBB. I replied and again stated the same facts and told them again that I had contacted my local BBB and they would not do anything. That was replied on the same day. Then on 5-21-02 I finally recieved a e-mail from the CBBB. Funny, this is what their response states, "The CBBB does not accept complaints against companies. We are the national office. Your local BBB is the one you need to file a complaint with."

Again, I replied and again told them everything with the new information I had on the company, about my local BBB not helping, and that this is in fact national that's why they're being contacted. I told them that I have searched each and every BBB and got reports like, Satisfactory and a member, yet the same report goes on to say, We have tried to contact this company for additional information but have had no response.

I told them that I felt they were doing everything they could to help in this scam by covering it up and not putting it in it's reports and that if they did not do anything I would refer them to higher up government agencies as to thier handling of the situations. Wouldn't you know it, on 5-23-02, I recieved an e-mail from the CBBB that stated; "We will contact the Washington DC Bureau on your behalf. You will hear from them shortly."

So, you tell me, either they just can't read or are definetly aware of what's going on and are confident to help cover these scamming companies up. I was always told that if I ever came upon a problem with a company or had information that would be useful about a company to go to the BBB that they are their to help make consumers aware of these things.

My family's businesses have been members of the the BBB for many many years and after this are going to pull out along with everyone they know. I strongly feel that in the last few years, the BBB's and CBBB are their just to take money, to lie, and mislead innocent consumers.

Better Business Bureau - California. "Mr. Stephen Lee Ricket...As you may be aware, we administer a mediation/arbitration program, BBB AUTO LINE, to resolve disputes between certain automobile manufacturers and consumers...However, BMW does not participate in our program in the state of California." (to many complaints to deal with and the highest liability? What are they hiding or how much are they paying you?)



Upon reading your report I updated my link to the BBB on www.WorthlessBMW.com to take consumers to your site. Ironically, the BBB has since provided my with a complaint number: 281206.

When the BBB tells a consumer there are "no complaints" on a company, and then the consumer later finds out there WERE complaints, but that the BBB lied to them, that's not a case of consumers not doing their homework.



I have heard that a few BBB's actually do make complaints publicly available, but mostly I hear they DON'T.



In our complaint, our BBB definitely did not make existing complaints available, and still doesn't last I checked.



We complained about this to the CBBB and now have a letter stating the BBB doesn't make compalints abvailable to the researching public. People should do their homework, including checking with the BBB just in case...but they should NEVER RELY on the BBB for anything.



The BBB simply is not a reliable way to check on a company. The BBB exists to collect dues from member-businesses, it is not an organization for consumer's benefit.

I understand that some poeple are getting defrauded with scams and unethical business practices. But these consumers aren't doing their homework before they make these big ticket purchases. The Better Business Bureau is an agency that promotes marketplace ethics. The average consumer calls when they have already been scammed. What do u expect for us to do. IF YOU CANT FIND THE GUY WHO RIPPED YOU OFF, WHAT MAKES YOU THINK THAT WE CAN? YOU SHOULD HAVE CALLED BEFORE GIVING HALF OF YOUR ENTIRE 401K AWAY TO SOME SMOOTH TALKING JERK. IF THE ATTORNEY GENERAL CAN'T HELP. WHAT MAKES YOU THINK THAT WE CAN.



I have worked at the BBB for some time and we provide a great service to those who want it. We suggest that you check on a compnay first. Then we suggest that you contact the licencing agency for the particular indusrty. We also suggest that you check references. It takes more that one phone call to the BBB to solve any issue. People are lashing out at the wrong people. THEY ARE MORE MAD AT THEMSELVES FOR BEING SO STUPID AND FALLING FOR THE SLY REMARKS OF A SCAM ARTIST.



We get anywhere between 10-40,000 complaints per month and with the small monies paid in dues,($300 average)I think we do a darn good job. BE A SMART CONSUMER AND STOP BEING LAZY. aND STOP TAKING YOUR ANGER OUT ON THE PEOPLE THAT ARE TRYING TO HELP. wE HAVE worked w/ the ftc and postal service and the fbi to shut down several scams and fake companies.



What about those people that we help. What about the monthLY tip columns that we send to the elderly and other consumer advocacy groups. What about the people we do help. In any business, not everyone will be happy. But what I see from this website THE PURPOSE OF THE BBB IS BEING MIS-INTERPRETED.



TRUE, WE TRY TO HELP THOSE THAT HAVE BEEN TAKEN ADVANTAGE OF. bUT WE MOSTLY SERVE AS A PREVENTATIVE. CHECK ON A COMPANY NOW, GET THE BACKGROUND INFO. SEE HOW LONG THEY HAVE BEEN IN BUSINESS. gET THE NATURE OF ANY COMPLAINTS. THEN CHOOSE WISELY. BUT DO YOUR HOMEWORK



EDitor's NOTE:

This email is a rebuttal to RipOff #1343.

It was sent by Sue McLaughlin at Soozyq88@aol.com.



Better Business Bureau or Buyer Better Beware? BBB ............Nationwide Alert! ........... THE FOX GUARDING THE HEN HOUSE (#1343)



They filed the following rebuttal to the above Rip-Off Report:





Their name: Sue McLaughlin



Their relationship to the company: Consumer Suggestion



Rebuttal:

As a former BBB employee, I agree with many of the comments that I've read above...one in particular is that a company may have had many complaints and they still have a satisfactory report with the bureau...most of what I've read appears to be true, as far as I can see.....

This email is a rebuttal to RipOff #1343.

It was sent by Richard Piazza at americacc@aol.com.



Better Business Bureau or Buyer Better Beware? BBB ..Nationwide

Alert! .. THE FOX GUARDING THE HEN HOUSE (#1343)



They filed the following rebuttal to the above Rip-Off Report:



Their email: americacc@aol.com

Their name: Richard Piazza

Their phone number: 617-389-5221

Their relationship to the company: Owner



Rebuttal:

We are in total agreement with your views on the Better Business Bureau.



American Chamber of Commerce, Inc.

Boston (Everett), MA 02149 USA