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Bill Luke Dodge / Chrysler ripoff Credit Fraud Maybe the NEW Attorney General will investigate Phoenix Arizona
They padded my income to get me to qualify for vehicle worth more than what I make in a year. ripped off and scammed screwed others too ripped off and scammed
Luke's lazy "LOT Sharks" waiting for their next victim, or as they "car sales salesmen refer to us consumers as" ..UP'S
Basically, Joe our much experienced salesman at Bill Luke Dodge asked me to fill out a credit application to just check my credit. He said he couldn't check my credit unless I filled out just some of the info needed on the form. He actually filled the whole thing out himself. Twice I asked him if I should add my $2,400.00 per year child support in the blank box labeled 'other income' on the credit application before I signed it. He told me twice that the amount of $2,400.00 would not be enough to qualify so to leave the 'other income' box blank.
I did as he told me and left that area blank on the application He left acting like he doubted if I would qualify for the vehicle worth $6,000.00 more than my annual salary and even told me so. I'm thinking he's just checking to see if my credit was as good as I stated to him and we had told him that if my salary was not high enough that we would go to their used car dept. and find something $10,000.00 cheaper that I would qualify for.
That's when he actually sprung to his feet, said he would just quickly check my credit but to "not hold your breath". He himself acted and made comments of his doubt about being able to qualify. I mentioned that it was to just check my credit anyway, not to actually buy or lease.
He comes back 20 minutes later and said I'm approved to buy a vehicle that's worth more than I make a year. I ended up leasing this vehicle for the handicapped friend who was with me and desparately needed a car for work and to visit his hospitalized wife. He was going to buy out the lease within 3 to 4 months from the bank which was KEY BANK.
Unbeknownst to me, the salesman had put in the 'other income' box that he explicitely told me to leave blank, the amount of $4,800.00 rental income. In his own handwriting. KEY BANK people read it to mean $4,800.00 per month. The person at KEY BANK I talked to on the phone three months after I was scammed read it to mean a MONTHLY income of $4,800!
I'm in the process of suing them. I'm one of six people who have or are suing Bill Luke Dodge in the past 2-3 years.
Why did these salespeople think they could get away with this scam?
First fact: All the dealers I called told me that they don't give you a copy of the application. Yes, they will not give you a copy of the credit application you have to sign if you want them to check your credit. If your credit is real good like mine was when I walked into Bill Luke, they will be licking their chops when they come back to you to tell you that you qualified. Don't believe it. They may have padded your income and you won't even know. Even if you ask for a copy later after signing the contract, they will lie and tell you it gets shredded once you're approved for "privacy reasons".
They can even pull out your copy first BEFORE they then pad your income so the bank thinks you're worth more than you are to them and you see only the copy that doesn't have the 'padded income' listed on it.
Secondly: How many people, after paying for the car for let's say six months, then fall on hard times,now has to give the car back. They are now still liable for the difference of the now lower value and what's still owed on the once new vehicle. How many will continue to pay for a vehicle that they are not using?
If they had good credit, they will pay to keep their good credit intact. They would never think that they never would have had possession of the car and the big payments if the salesman had not padded his income.
After going into 6 dealers and asking for the same priced vehicle, using the same salary and info on the Bill Luke credit application, but leaving other income box blank, I found that all the salesmen either told me to pad my salary or pad my income by adding more money than I actually made in a month.
One even prefaced his suggestion with the quote: "I'll deny that I told you this if someone asks me if I told you this, but if you were to fill out another credit application and add $450.00 to $500.00 per month to your monthly income, I guarantee you that the bank won't call your employer to verify.
I'm thinking as he said this, that yeah, I know the bank won't, KEY BANK sure didn't when they got my application. And they read the amount as a monthly amount. These banks are so anxious to buy "paper" on cars with people with good credit that they will not take the time to check the info out. The bank loses too but it's their own fault.
I'm now learning about all the scams car salespeople use against consumers. I will not buy a car from a dealer ever!
How many people have had to have their credit ruined without them knowing why they really got approved for that high priced car? How many are still paying the difference amount when they give the car back to the dealer/bank? How many would have bought a cheaper car in order to qualify and then could still afford the payments when they fell on hard times? At lease they wouldn't have the higher payments of a new car.
It's a sneaky little scam that sells a lot of cars to those of us who only make maybe $15,000-20,000.00 per year. The salesman can add whatever amount he knows is needed to get the bank to accept you. This scamm would not be necessary to use on those that make higher incomes. They normally qualify okay based on their actual higher income that they make.
This is a way for the salesman to make more car sales on the backs of lower income people. I wrote to the Atty General's office. They wrote back that they won't do anything unless they get a bunch more complaints from people that were scammed this way.
Well guess what? I never whould have known if not for an extremely unusual rare occurence that triggered a question in someone's mind to check my file at KEY BANK. I'm so glad they did. I never would have known and I'd be paying for that crooked salesman's commission and the loan person at KEY BANK who wanted a sale for them as well. I reiterated to the ATTY GENERAL's office that this is a hidden scam and that people won't know that the salesman padded their income even if they get an unpadded copy before the salesman pads the income before faxing it to the bank. The atty general's office don't care.
They ignore the most important fact: It's undetectable and the salesmen use it at their own discretion based on what you make and what vehicle they can sucker you into buying or leasing.
I welcome rebuttals from not only the truly knowledgeable and helpful Rip-off staff but also lowlife car salesmen that scam customers on a daily basis. Why do I get the feeling that not one salesman will rebutt this ripoff report but I sure welcome their deceptive drivel. Oh yes, after picketing them, I was threatened, my truck was vandalized by a Bill Luke employee who was actually wearing one of their Bill Luke Dodge polo shirt when he did it. There was a witness and he reported it to me and I had a police report taken.
Donna
Phoenix, Arizona
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2 Updates & Rebuttals
The Great Thorn
Bayville,New York,
Info that might help you Donna from The Great Thorn. Car dealer will not like you doing this,
#3Consumer Suggestion
Sat, November 16, 2002
Donna most banks across this country like doing business with car dealers, thats the honest ones.
If a bank finds that a car dealer lets their sales staff strech the truth a mile or two they take a second look as to whether they should continue doing business with them.
If a bank decides to no longer do business with a car dealer, I A BIG HOLE gets POKED in the car dealer's POCKET.
If you have copies of all of your documents, I would contact the AZ state banking commission at
Arizona State Banking Department
2910 North 44th St.
Suite 310
Phoenix, AZ 85018
602-255-4421
Toll free in AZ: 1-800-544-0708
Fax: 602-381-1225
Web site: www.azbanking.com
Next I would fax a copy of your Rip Off report, and the whole thing to
Arizona
State Offices
Robert Zumoff, Chief Counsel
Consumer Protection and Advocacy Section
Office of the Attorney General
1275 West Washington St.
Phoenix, AZ 85007
602-542-3702
602-542-5763 (consumer information and complaints)
Toll free in AZ: 1-800-352-8431
TDD: 602-542-5002
Fax: 602-542-4579
Web site: www.ag.state.az.us
Donna in the past car dealers have been able to to pretty much do what ever they want and get away with it.
Now that the Rip Off Report has come to life in the most recent past, Car dealers have to watch EVERY STEP.
If you Fax a copy of this WHOLE RIP OFF REPORT to your car dealer, I am VERY SURE that they will want to change something to make you a happy car buyer.
If I were you, I would fax a "Printer Friendly Version" of your Rip Off Report to
Daimler Chrysler Motors Corp
See Chrysler, Plymouth, Dodge, Jeep
Daimler Chrysler Customer Center
PO Box 21-8004
Auburn Hills, MI 48321-8004
Toll free: 1-800-992-1997
Fax: 248-512-8084
Web site: www.chrysler.com
Then I would fax a copy of your Rip Off Report to
Jeep/Eagle Division of Chrysler Corp.
Customer Relations
Jeep/Eagle Division of Chrysler Corp.
PO Box 21-8004
Auburn Hills, MI 48321
1-800-992-1997
Fax: 248-512-8084
Donna I am willing to bet that after you do the above, That Dodge, Chrysler corp "Big Shots" will look into this car dealer's past car deals and the way they put car deals together, Especially the ones that have been financed through Chrysler Finance.
I also feel that you would never get this kind of info or help from the Better Business Bureau EVER!
I Feel that the BBB only helps hide the dirt so they can get their membership FEE's. You know,
MO-MONEY
I tell you what I will do just for you, I will drive by this dealer and take a Picture of it and send it to the Editor of the Rip Off Report.
Don't you think it would be cool to have a picture of this dealership included in your Rip Off Report, I Do.
Just Think Donna as to how many people will read your Rip Off Report.
To all who read this and many other Rip Off Reports on car dealers.
If you do not want to EVER GET Ripped off by a car dealer. You need to read car dealer rip off reports. Make sure you understand how it all works before you sign anything.
Never sign anything that they will not give you a copy of. And make sure that each and every document that you sign is COMPLETLY FILLED OUT in your hand writing.
Some car dealers like to try to get car buyers to sign some documents and then fill in the blanks after you are long gone. Doing this helps INCREASE THIER PROFIT in a BIG WAY.
Signed
Don
Real World,Virginia,
The Wizard of Oz
#3Consumer Suggestion
Sat, November 16, 2002
That's what your report reminds me of, The Wizard
of Oz's scarecrow singing "if I only had a brain"
For if people used their brains once in a while
instead of letting those big bad salesmen take
advantage of them and get them financed for a
"high priced car" instead of the "cheaper car"
they would not be in the spot in which you
describe.
Am I the only person that does research on a new
vehicle before actually going to a dealer?
I know exactly what I will pay for a vehicle
before stepping out of the house. That's what
the internet, telephone and a brain is for,
isn't it?
The only other question I have is...why would
somebody be looking at a car that they can't
afford in the first place? But then again we
come back to that brain thing. although I think
most people can use one of those calculators on
most banking, car dealer, car value etc. websites
where you type in what you make and see what you
can afford (if you can't do it for yourself)
I'm through.
And no I am not a salesman. I just get tired of
seeing everyone trying to put the blame on
someone else's back for their own stupidity.