Bill Miller Piano Warehouse Bill Miller recommended we buy a used piano, charged us to make it "right", and delivered it unusable to our small church. Tulsa Oklahoma
Bill Miller was paid to repair & bring a piano up to proper performance condition for our church. He misrepresented the work he has done on it. It's unusable.
On 4/11/15, I found a Wurlitzer Small Grand piano for sale in Bixby. I knew someone who was familiar with it from John 3:16 Mission, where it was before the seller bought it. I contacted him & got the name of the piano technician who worked on it for them, & was told it was Mr. Bill Miller. I contacted Mr. Miller & asked him to come out & evaluate the piano's current condition, & to advise us as to the possibility of bringing the Wurlitzer piano back up to proper performance standards so that we could use it in our small church.
Mr. Miller arrived that afternoon, & began to extoll the virtues of the instrument, going on and on about all of the work he did on it in 2004 for John 3:16. He told me, in front of witnesses, that he had performed the following work on it:
That it had new strings and a new pin block; it had new hammers; it had new dampers; and ALL - and he repeated this more than once - ALL of the moving parts in the action had been replaced, including "bearings, bushings - anything that was worn was replaced". Further, he said that it was an EXCELLENT piano, and that, to replace it with a new one that was comparable would be a "small Baldwin", and it would cost "$22,000.00". He said that this Wurlitzer was an outstanding piano & that we would be "very pleased" with it's performance & how it sounded in our church, once he was through with it.
He wrote out an estimate for the repairs he said it needed, which included ONE broken hammer, but he repeatedly assured me - in front of witnesses - that, when he got through with it, this piano would be "RIGHT". Finally, before he left, he told the seller that, "If they don't buy this piano - I WILL! It's a dandy! I have a woman in Ft. Smith that is looking for one like it and will buy it!" And then he left.
I purchased the piano from the seller. On Wed. 4/15, Mr. Miller and his man showed up, loaded it up in their trailer, and took it to their shop. He had originally told me it would take "3 weeks" to properly "do the job", but, that Wednesday, he said they would "try" to have it ready for Sunday services on April 19th.
They delivered it the afternoon of April 18th. He told me that "There were 9 hammers in that piano that were broken and had to be replaced", among many other things that they did to it. After setting it up, Mr. Miller tuned it, told us it would take a week or so to "settle in", and left.
Our pianist tried it out, and there were MANY things wrong with it, not the least of which being it was so terribly out of tune and many of the notes didn't sound when she pressed the keys that she had to pick songs for the next day that didn't need the notes that wouldn't play right or weren't terribly out of tune. It wasn't easy, but we made it through that Sunday.
I called Mr. Miller and asked him to come out & tune it, & told him that it had several other things wrong with it that I wanted fixed. He came out on Friday, 4/24, & I gave him 3 pages of things that were wrong with it, & left him for a little while to go eat lunch. Before I left, he told me that the action was "all original - 1921", which means that there NEVER WERE broken hammers that had been replaced, & that he had NOT really fully rebuilt the action in 2004 like he said he did. When I returned, he was gone, the piano was in WORSE tune than it was when he arrived, and NONE of the issues I had written down for him had been fixed.
I had professional piano technician come in the next day to examine the Wurlitzer & evaluate it for me. He confirmed that the action was all original, that the hammers and moving parts were NOT new, & that, in his estimation, the piano wasn't worth what it would cost to fix it.
I called Mr. Miller that day, & he promised to fix it. He came out on 4/28, did SOME work on it, & left. Now it is MORE out of tune than it was before he arrived, and he did NOT fix even MOST of the items on my list. He now claims that parts are not available for it, but they are here:
schaffpiano.com/
This piano is unusable, & his services have been deplorable.
Our position is as follows:
1. We went to Mr. Miller and TRUSTED him - in good faith - to tell us if this piano could be brought up to proper performance standards for use in our church. He promised us faithfully that it was, and that he could do so. He has failed to do so on all points.
2. We TRUSTED him to tell us the TRUTH about the actual condition of this piano, and we BELIEVED him when he told us that it was an excellent instrument, and that he could deliver to us an properly performing piano that would provide us years of quality music and enjoyment. He has failed us in this regard, as well.
3. We have had him out REPEATEDLY to fix the problems, only to have him leave with them NOT being resolved, and, every single time, the piano has been MORE out of tune than it was when he came in the door that day.
4. We acted on HIS advice and paid for the Wurlitzer because HE SAID it was rebuildable. His website says he is an expert at bringing old pianos back to life, but he sure didn't do it on ours!
5. Mr. Miller stated, in front of witnesses, that he was paid by John 3:16 Mission $5,000 to restore the Wurlitzer piano, and that he donated "$7,000 more in parts and labor" to finish the job "right" (he lkies to use that word). Now - IF this piano had $12,000 worth of work done to it in 2004, WHERE did the money go? It certainly wasn't in NEW PARTS, because the most imporant parts - the "action" - is all original! Combined with what WE paid him, it should be BETTER than new!
In fact - the monies spent on it by John 3:16 alone were enough to buy a NICE small grand that is much newer!
6. Had he told us the TRUTH, we would NOT have bought it. NOW, we have to find another piano to replace the one HE SAID would be "right", because we have given our old piano away to someone else who needed one.
We have filed a complaint against him with the Better Business Bureau, but he has yet to reply, leaving us with another Sunday with no piano.
While we hate to speak ill of others, we are compelled to say -
BEWARE BILL MILLER OF BILL MILLER PIANO WAREHOUSE IN TULSA!
5 Updates & Rebuttals
FINAL RESULTS
#6Author of original report
Wed, July 01, 2015
FINAL UPDATE -
After much wailing and gnashing of teeth, Bill Miller Piano Warehouse, LLC sent the BBB an email stating that they were withdrawing their offer to come out and "address" the issues we stated the Wurlitzer piano had, and were submitting an alternate offer: They would (1) Refund us the $1500.00 we paid them to make the piano; (2) Pay us the $650.00 we paid the original seller for it; (3) They would come and take possession of the Wurlitzer; all on the proviso that I came back to Angie's List and any other place and stated that the situation had been resolved to my satisfaction. Their offer was accepted, we have our money, he has the Wurlitzer, and we are done.
Am I satisfied? Not with Bill Miller, I assure you! HE NEVER DID ANSWER MY QUESTION ABOUT WHAT HE MEANT BY "ADDRESS" THE ISSUES THE PIANO HAD! Further, he never admitted ANY wrong doing, nor did he admit that he misrepresented his work on the piano for John 3:16 Mission!
Final note:
ALWAYS-ALWAYS-ALWAYS do what I did NOT do:
CHECK the references of a professional in ANY field, AND ASK OTHERS IN THAT SAME FIELD WHAT THEY THINK OF THAT PERSON/COMPANY YOU'RE CONSIDERING!
If I had done so, none of this would have happened.
Oh - and to the person who posted a positive report on Bill Miller Piano Warehouse, LLC, I can only say this:
You are one of the fortunate few. Be sure he doesn't try to take you to Hawaii.
Elizabeth
Bixby,Oklahoma,
USA
BIll Miller Saved My Piano
#6Consumer Comment
Wed, June 24, 2015
I just wanted to let people know that I have used Bill Miller Piano for years and have received wonderful and honest service every time. They restored my piano after years of wear and tear and it looked and sounded beautiful. Just recently, I called Mr. Miller in absolute shock when water was streaming into my paino due to a roof leak. Mr. Miller stopped what he was doing and came straight out to the house! He therefore basically saved my piano from being a total loss. He was profesional and knowledgable. They worked dillagently to dry out the action and saved a lot of the strings. I appreciate them so much!
UPDATE ON THE PIANO BILL MILLER PIANO WAREHOUSE FIASCO
#6Author of original report
Thu, May 28, 2015
I had a different professional piano repair technician and he examined the instrument thoroughly. He informed me that the pin block, which Mr. Miller swore up and down had been replaced when he rebuilt it for John 3:16 Mission, was, in fact, original to the piano. It was NOT new, or anywhere close to it! Another falsehood exposed.... Further, the technician said the hammers were totally ruined and needed to be replaced, the action was BADLY out of regulation, and, in order for it to be made playable, the action would require an extension (read: thorough) regulation. So, as I have said before, we have a piano that Mr. Miller made to LOOK nice, but can't be used as a piano!
We're still waiting on his reply to my request for definitions to the words, "address" and " issues".
I am certain that Bill Miller Piano Warehouse will NEVER make this "right"!
UPDATE AS OF 05/20/15
#6Author of original report
Thu, May 21, 2015
Here was Bill Miller Piano Warehouse's response to my reply to their rebuttal to my original complaint:
We, at Bill Miller Piano Warehouse, LLC are definitely interested in resolving the issue with the piano belonging to South Heights Baptist Church in Sapulpa.
We have always taken pride in the work we do and have built a strong reputation in doing so. We have always stood behind our work, striving to meet the needs of our customers.
We were hired to look at a piano that we had rebuilt 11 years ago, to determine if the piano could be made usable for the “small” South Heights Baptist Church in Sapulpa. We understood that the church had very little money to work with. It is the desire of Bill Miller Piano Warehouse, LLC to meet the needs of South Heights Baptist Church as defined by the Pastor, Todd White.
Remembering the work we had done on the piano 11 years ago; which included repair and refinishing the soundboard, replacing the pin block, and installing new bass and treble wire, repairing broken parts on the action and regulating the action; we knew that the major components of the piano had been dealt with at that time.
Therefore normal repairs and regular maintenance could be done over the next several years to provide the church with a very usable grand piano suitable for services in the “small” church.
We have no knowledge of where the piano has been since we repaired it for John 3:16, nor do we know how it has been cared for in the interim.
We outlined, on our work order, minimal repairs that needed to be done before the piano could be used for services in a small church as follows:
· Move piano from Bixby to our shop in North Tulsa at no cost. Which was done.
· Polish dirty keys. Which was done.
· Fix one broken (missing assembly) hammer. Which was done.
a) When the action was pulled to repair on hammer, we found that several more hammers were broken and “leaning back”. Those were repaired and re-aligned. Again this was done at no cost to the church.
· Adjust one damper. Which was done.
· Adjust pedal Lyre. We actually rebuilt it because it was broken and couldn’t be attached properly. Again, no extra charge.
· Clean all wire. Which was done.
· Add new casters and caster cups. Done. The legs had to be repaired/reformed to accept the new caster sleeve to hold the casters. That work was done at no cost.
Additionally, when our workers knew that the minimal work on the work order was for a church, they asked if they could make it look nice. They cleaned the entire piano inside and out and put a new finish on the outside. This, too, was done at no cost to the church.
· Move the piano from our shop in North Tulsa to the Church in Sapulpa. This was done.
· Tune Piano. The piano was tuned when it was delivered, Bill Miller Piano Warehouse, LLC went back on April 24th and tuned it again.
a) They went back on April 28th and pulled the action out and repaired a hammer flange. They also reset dampers and re-adjusted wires in the bass section to stop a buzzing sound. They crawled under the piano with Mr. White to listen for additional buzzing, but found none.
While it is reasonable for the Church to assume that the piano would be returned to them in tunable condition and that keys would not stick, it is not reasonable to assume that a complete action regulation would be done at no cost to the church. However, at this time, the Church has provided Bill Miller Piano Warehouse, LLC with a list of action repairs they believe should have been done (as determined by the expertise of Mr. White?) by us even though nothing was mentioned on the work order.
Mr. Charlie Brown, says that it will cost more to fix than the piano is worth. We need to determine what he means by “fix”. Is he talking about repairing, or a restoration?
Considering what was originally paid, by the Church, for the piano, no repairs could be done at regular pricing that would not cost more than the price they paid for it. Repairs can be done, however, for much less than the cost of a typical used grand piano in this category. It is a lower grade Wurlitzer, not an upper grade Steinway.
It has always been part of the mission of Bill Miller Piano Warehouse, LLC to assist small churches and other non-profit organizations to the best of our ability. We attempted to do so in this instance.
Now the Church has tarnished our otherwise blemish free status with the Better Business Bureau, where we have been an accredited member since 2006. They posted the same complaint on a website called “ripoff.com” before attempting to resolve outstanding issues amicably. Incidentally, I believe I saw “Ripoff.com” has an “F” rating with the Better Business Bureau.
Once again we suggest the following resolution:
Mr. White and the Church pianist, Bill and Kathy Miller, and their trainee, Alan, should all meet at the church. They should all plan to be present throughout the course of any issues that are addressed by Bill Miller Piano Warehouse, LLC. Bill Miller Piano Warehouse, LLC will not work on the piano when no one is present at the Church. We need them to explain their issue with each item they believe should be repaired.
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Here is the reply I sent to the above back to the BBB:
Here follows my reply to Bill Miller Piano Warehouse’s response to my rebuttal to their reply to my complaint about their services to the Tulsa Better Business Bureau that they received on May 18, 2015.
1. Much of their reply is a re-hash of their original response to my complaint. Admittedly, most all of my rebuttal to that response is a re-hash of my original complaint, but I also included responses to things in their reply that were not part of my original complaint.
2. I take issue with their assertion that the piano has been tuned. Mr. Miller, as I have stated before, has supposedly tuned it three times, and each time, when he left, it was NOT in tune, and, the last two times he did so, it was in WORSE tune than it was before he started! The piano appears to hold it’s tuning well - it’s just that he can’t seem to get it where it’s actually in tune!
3. With regard to the buzzing that I was instructed to fix with glue - I can’t understand how Mr. Miller and his assistant didn’t hear it, as I demonstrated it to them and he instructed me on how to fix it. If he didn’t hear it, how did he know what to tell me to do to fix it? To his credit, he DID fix many of the buzzes that day that were caused by the metal rods that lift the dampers touching the metal strings of the piano.
4. Bill Miller Piano Warehouse stated that, “While it is reasonable for the Church to assume that the piano would be returned to them in tunable condition and that keys would not stick, it is not reasonable to assume that a complete action regulation would be done at no cost to the church.” While I agree with that, in principle, I would like to know WHY this wasn’t pointed out when we asked Mr. Miller what the Wurlitzer needed - specifically - to it to bring it up to proper playing standards. We asked for his professional opinion as to what would be required to do so, and trusted him to tell us the truth about it. I clearly expressed to Mr. Miller what we expected the piano to be able to do, musically, when we got it back, and, if that was not possible without having the action properly regulated, HE SHOULD HAVE SAID SO THEN!
5. They further stated that, “However, at this time, the Church has provided Bill Miller Piano Warehouse, LLC with a list of action repairs they believe should have been done (as determined by the expertise of Mr. White?) by us even though nothing was mentioned on the work order.”
Again, this is an attempt to insinuate that I am some sort of ignorant boob that can’t tell the difference between a spinet and a 9-foot Steinway, and certainly haven’t enough sense to know about how a piano is to operate or perform.
Let me reiterate that I am a degreed musician, have been around pianos and pianists all my life, have been taught piano (admittedly on a basic level, but I have had some training on the instrument), have been a private low brass instructor for 40 years, an Assistant Conductor of the Tulsa Community Band for 3 years, and was a church Minister of Music for several years prior to becoming a pastor. Therefore, while I claim no “expertise” in the world of pianos, I maintain that I have enough sense to know the difference between a piano that plays in tune and one that does not, and that I can ascertain whether or not the action of a piano is working uniformly or not. Further, our Pianist is professionally trained, and has been teaching piano students and playing in churches for over 60 years, and she says that it has the same problems that I do.
6. Mr. Brown, who would be more than willing to discuss this with the BBB, will tell you that he feels that the piano is not worth the amount of money it would cost to fix. By this, he means that the amount of money that would have to be put into it further would not justify the cost to do so. I don’t know how to make that any more clear - those are nearly his exact words, so you will have to talk to him about that for further clarification. If Mr. Brown is correct, we would like to know WHY Mr. Miller advised us to buy it!
7. The writer stated, “Repairs can be done, however, for much less than the cost of a typical used grand piano in this category. It is a lower grade Wurlitzer, not an upper grade Steinway.” By this, does Bill Miller Piano Warehouse mean that the piano CAN be repaired and brought up to proper performance standards, and, if so, what would it cost to do so? We need a specific amount, if there is one, from them on this.
As for the comment about the “lower grade” of the Wurlitzer as a opposed to a Steinway, that’s a given - anyone who knows pianos knows this. BUT - when asked if it could be brought up to proper performance standards acceptable for our church, Mr. Miller originally assured us more than once, and in front of at least one witness, that it most certainly could.
8. With regard to the “blemish free” reputation of Bill Miller Piano Warehouse, they take issue with the website, “Ripoff Report”, so let me share with the BBB some complaints filed about them from “Angie’s List”, which Bill Miller Piano Warehouse lists prominently on their website, and encourages people to check them out on:
A. Angie’s List Review Date: April 22, 2014
Company Name: Bill Miller Piano Warehouse LLC Overall rating: B
Category: Piano Tuning Price: A
Services Performed: Yes Quality: C
Work Completed Date: April 14, 2011 Responsiveness: A
Hire Again: Yes Punctuality: A
Professionalism: A
Description Of Work:
Bill sold us a piano that "needed some work" because we wanted a piano so badly. It never gets played now because the middle range f# is sprung and makes an awful sound when pressed. Bill has been out several times to "tune" it, but it only lasts a few hours. Bill is always on time and fair priced. It may just be a lemon of a piano.
B. Angie’s List Review Date: April 16, 2014
Company Name: Bill Miller Piano Warehouse LLC Overall rating: F
Category: Musical Instrument Repair Price: D
Services Performed: Yes Quality: C
Work Completed Date: April 16, 2012 Responsiveness: D
Hire Again: No Punctuality: D
Professionalism: F
Description Of Work:
I had a collaboration with Bill Miller Piano Warehouse LLC where we do antique restoration, and we have been for the last 40-some years. I'm on Angie's List and we got into this deal with Bill Miller Piano Company to restore the rosewood piano for the Queen Anne Mansion in Eureka Springs, Arkansas. He was supposed to do the interior workings on it while we did the outside case.
Member Comments:
I would not do any business with them. They are not truthful. We had a business dealing with them, and it wasn't a pleasant experience at all. They charged us more than it should have been. It was a very unpleasant situation. He claimed in a newspaper article that he did everything on the piano, and that he personally talked with the owner of the mansion, and how she just loved all of his work when she never had ever met him, and never talked to him before. All the dealings were through us. He was claiming responsibility for all of these great works supposedly that he did, and they had nothing but trouble with the interior workings of the piano so we had to go back in and fix everything. It was a terrible experience.
C. Angie’s List Review Date: March 27, 2014
Company Name: Bill Miller Piano Warehouse LLC Overall rating: F
Category: Musical Instrument Repair Price: F
Services Performed: Yes Quality: F
Work Completed Date: March 17, 2011 Responsiveness: F
Hire Again: No Punctuality: C
Approximate Cost: $6,000.00 Professionalism: F
Description Of Work:
I bought a refurbished piano from them.
Member Comments:
The technician who tuned it the first time told us the sound board was cracked and should not have been resold. It was worth NOTHING.
☛ I submit that these reviews on Angie’s List will lay to rest any claims that Bill Miller Piano Warehouse’s reputation is “blemish-free”.
9. As far as their complaining that I filed a complaint with Rip-Off Report, “before attempting to resolve outstanding issues amicably”, let me categorically state that I have, in fact, ALREADY done so! I attempted to get this problem resolved amicably when I had Mr. Miller come out - TWICE - to fix the problems on the piano that were preventing it from being able to be used due to the fact that it had not been delivered in a properly operating condition.
10. Bill Miller Piano Warehouse states at the end of their most recent reply the following:
“Once again we suggest the following resolution: Mr. White and the Church pianist, Bill and Kathy Miller, and their trainee, Alan, should all meet at the church. They should all plan to be present throughout the course of any issues that are addressed by Bill Miller Piano Warehouse, LLC. Bill Miller Piano Warehouse, LLC will not work on the piano when no one is present at the Church. We need them to explain their issue with each item they believe should be repaired.”
Obviously, Bill Miller Piano Warehouse isn’t going to assume responsibility for the fact that we ended up with an unusable piano because Mr. Miller promised us that it could be brought back up to proper performance standards. This, of course, means that he has no intention of following through with either of our other options to resolve this, even though either of them would turn them a tidy sum in profit. I guess the “lady in Ft. Smith” will have to continue her search for a different Wurlitzer. However - if Mr. Miller will share her name and phone number with me, I will be happy to sell it to her for what I have in it.
11. Therefore, our response to their offer, as stated before, is, quite simply this:
While we are not opposed to meeting with them and sitting by as they “address” any “issues”, we want to know - specifically - what do they mean by “address”? If that means FIX them, then we are fine with that, but, we doubt that’s what they mean. In all likelihood, it means something like, “Well, yeah, it has thus-and-so problem, to be sure, but you didn’t pay for that (see the Work Order?), and that’s what would be covered by a full restoration, so we’re not going to do that.”
If that’s the case, we would all be wasting our time, as the problems I have outlined for Mr. Miller are obviously ones he is unwilling to correct. We want Bill Miller Piano Warehouse to SPECIFY what they mean by the phrase, “address” before we will agree to such a meeting.
12. Here’s the BOTTOM LINE -
Our original complaint hasn’t been addressed by Bill Miller Piano Warehouse - we trusted Mr. Miller and believed what he told us about the condition of the Wurlitzer, what it would take, mechanically, to bring it back up to proper performance standards, and what it would cost to do so. We have been left with a piano that, while it looks pretty, sounds awful and cannot be used for our services. I repeat my earlier statement that my mistake was not in purchasing an older small grand piano thinking it would work fine for us without work, my mistake was in BELIEVING Mr. Miller and TRUSTING HIM to tell me the TRUTH and to KEEP HIS WORD.
That said, IF the BBB can get Bill Miller Piano Warehouse to accurately and with specific detail define what they mean by “address” any “issues” with the Wurlitzer, we would not be opposed to having them come out, as they have offered to do, providing that we are satisfied with the definitions they provide. We will also only do so with a member of the BBB present, as we tire of the "he said - she said" situation this has become.
Reply By Bill Miller Piano Warehouse to the BBB, & My Rebuttal To It
#6Author of original report
Wed, May 13, 2015
This is the reply to my complaint with the Better Business Bureau from Bill Miller Piano Warehouse:
"We are stunned to hear that Mr. White thinks that Bill misrepresented himself and the work that was done on the Wurlitzer piano 11 years ago. He also insinuated that Bill had in fact lied to him.
I believe there is a problem with definitions, and understanding of the mechanical functions of a piano. When repairing an older piano there are three levels of repair. Recondition, rebuild, and restore. This piano was not restored to original condition. Bill did NOT promise to make this piano into a concert grade grand piano. Bill did NOT tell him it was an "outstanding" piano. In the twenty years I have been with Bill he has NEVER said that a piano was "outstanding". Bill does not use the term "outstanding" when describing a piano.
In 2004, Bill did a rebuild on a piano for John 3:16. They called about a piano they had been given and wanted to know what it would take to make it playable for the common area where they held their "church services". The grand piano they had was so bad in couldn't be repaired. We donated a piano we had in our stock of used pianos that needed to be rebuilt. John 3:16 paid a very minimal amount to cover materials, and Bill proceeded to repair the piano we had donated.
Mr. White called us to have Bill inspect this piano and let him know if the piano could be made to work for his small church. Mr. White told Bill that his was a small church with very little money. Bill decided to put our large work load on hold, while he and two of our assistants repaired the defects on the outside of the Wurlitzer grand piano. nothing on the invoice about work on the action or adjusting anything but the one damper and the pedal lyre.
He asked for Bill's opinion of the piano, and it was given to him. That does not make Bill responsible for hispurchase. As Bill said we would have bought the piano for $650.00. We are generally overjoyed to find a used grand piano for $2000.00 that needs to be rebuilt.
Our suggestion for resolution is as follows:
Mr. White and the Church pianist, Bill and Kathy Miller, and their trainee, Alan, should all meet at the church and plan to be present throughout the course of any issues that are addressed. We will not work on the piano with no one present and a list of supposed issues to be repaired.
We will not be doing a $15,000.00 restoration on the piano. Nor will we be replacing the piano with one of our rebuilt pianos with prices starting at $5000.00.
Though the piano would sell for over $2000.00 in its current condition, our showrooms are full and we will not be purchasing Mr. Whites piano.
Kathy Miller, Bill Miller Piano Warehouse, LLC 6516 S Erie Ave, Tulsa, OK 74136 918-299-8863
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Here is my rebuttal that I sent back to the BBB after reading the above reply to my original complaint:
May 7, 2015
Here follows my reply to Bill Miller Piano Warehouse’s response to my complaint about his services to the Tulsa Better Business Bureau of April 28, 2015. I will attempt to address their response in the order in which it was written.
1. The writer states that I have insinuated that Bill lied to me. Let me categorically state that I have not insinuated anything - if I think something, I say it. If I thought Mr. Miller lied to me when I wrote my complaint, I would have said so.
2. The writer states that it is their position that I have a problem understanding the definitions used in the world of piano repair, and in the mechanical functions of a piano. My mother was a church pianist for 63 years, I am a degreed musician, and have been around pianos my entire life. I know more about pianos than they are inferring. While not offended by such a remark, I do find it disconcerting that Bill Miller Piano Warehouse feels it must cast aspersion on me by their statements, apparently in order to discredit my position.
3. The writer of the response was not Mr. Miller. Therefore, her assertion as to what Mr. Miller said or didn’t say, or what anyone else said or didn’t say, are not valid, but are, instead, second hand hearsay, at best.
That said, the writer is correct - Mr. Miller did not promise to make the Wurlitzer a “concert grade grand piano”. What he DID promise is, as I have stated previously, that, after he was through with it and it was delivered, we would have a properly operating, fully functioning piano that would be an excellent instrument for our church. I believe that do understand what "excellent" is, and a piano that has improperly operating dampers, hammers that don’t hit the strings uniformly and properly, out of tune notes, keys that don’t function uniformly, key tops that are uneven, and all of the other items I have documented previously definitely do NOT fall under the category of the terms “fair” or “good”, much less “excellent”.
4. As for the use of the term “outstanding” - again, the writer of the response wasn’t there, and has no idea what was actually said.
5. Mr. Miller told me - in front of at Mr. Brett Baldwin, the seller, who was standing there the whole time Mr. Miller was inspecting the piano - that he rebuilt the Wurlitzer for John 3:16 in 2004. Mr. Miller went on and on, bragging about all of the work he’d done on it, including specifics that I have stated before, and mentioning that John 3:16 paid $5,000.00 for him to work on it, but that it wasn’t enough to do it “right” (now THERE’S a word Bill uses A LOT), so he stated that he did $7,000.00 of ADDITIONAL work to it to make it “right”. Mr. Baldwin can testify to this fact. While the writer asserts that John 3:16 paid “a very minimal amount to cover materials”, I submit that $5,000.00 is anything but minimal.
6. Mr. Miller stated more than once that the Wurlitzer was donated by a musical family from Florida to the John 3:16 Mission, not that his company donated it to them, as stated by the writer.
7. The writer is correct in stating that I called Mr. Miller to come and inspect the Wurlitzer to see if it could be made to work for our small church. Based on the poor performance of this piano after he delivered it, and after two attempts to tune and repair it onsite, I truly wonder what definition of the phrase, “made to work” Mr. Miller has. This piano is unusable, Bill Miller Piano Warehouse’s assertions notwithstanding. I made a video of all of the problems it had shortly after he left, and anyone who is not totally tone deaf or blind can hear and see that it is anything BUT usable!
8. Mr. Miller stated that it would take 3 weeks to make the Wurlitzer usable. “I’m not going to bring it out until it’s right”, he stated more than once. While I appreciate the fact that he and his workers put in extra hard work to get it out to us in 3 days, I think he should have taken his time to make sure the piano was mechanically and musically “right”, not just cosmetically so.
9. With regard to the items that the writer asserts were done without charge, let me say that, while we appreciate it, we didn’t ask for those cosmetic repairs to be done - our interest was and is that we have a properly PLAYING instrument! Now, while it is true that they did a lot of cosmetic work to it, and, I will say, they did a masterful job - it is beautiful - the problem is IT CAN’T BE PLAYED FOR CHURCH! It’s like having a Cadillac that is beautiful on the outside, but the engine, transmission, and differential are all shot - what good is it if you can’t drive it?
10. The writer states that there were “multiple problems with the piano”, then goes on to imply that it wasn’t well cared for at John 3:16. But - that’s not the issue. The issue is not what John 3:16 did or didn’t do to it - the issue is that I asked Mr. Miller for a TRUE and HONEST assessment of the piano, as a musical instrument, and, in his professional opinion, if it could be brought back to proper performance standards. He repeatedly, and in front of at least one witness, assured me that it could, and that he would do so.
He did not, and it is not!
11. The writer, again, not being present at the time Mr. Miller inspected the Wurlitzer, states that, “Mr. White had no one else with him when he and Bill talked about the piano.” This is not true. Mr. Miller knows that Mr. Brett Baldwin, the seller of the piano, was standing there the whole time and heard the entire conversation between Mr. Miller and myself. Further, Mr. Baldwin can confirm that he heard Mr. Miller state that, once he was finished repairing the Wurlitzer, we would have a properly performing piano for our church. You can call him, if you would like, to verify what he heard and saw. His telephone number can be provided to the BBB, should they decide to verify this.
12. The writer states that she doesn’t “...know why he keeps saying, ‘we went to Mr. Miller, and we trusted him.’” To me, that statement is nonsensical - if they are in business, WHY then would they NOT understand why people should trust him? Simply put, I called Mr. Miller - who worked on it before - to see what he thought about it’s present condition. I also trusted him because HE represented himself as a professional (he's the “Piano Man” - it even says so on his leather belt).
13. The writer, who - again - wasn’t there, asserts that I “seemed to be more concerned with talking to the seller about an organ the seller had for sale than in talking to Bill about the piano.”
Well, now HOW could that be, when the writer asserts earlier in their response stated that no one was there but Bill and I???? If, as she states, no one was there, then HOW could I be talking to the seller while Bill was looking at the piano? The answer is that this is not possible! Mr. Baldwin will be happy to tell the BBB the TRUTH - that I was very attentive to Mr. Miller and his examination of the Wurlitzer, and that I asked many questions as he did so, and afterwards, as well.
14. The writer states the repairs that Mr. Miller asserts that he had done on the instrument in 2004, making particular comments about the felts used on the hammers, correctly states that they have not been replaced. What she does not mention is why she spent so much space explaining how much better the hammer felts were, and that their “common practice” is to file them, “taking off approximately ten thousandths of an inch of felt, to restore them to their original shape and function”, yet, when Mr. Miller and his assistant were here on Tuesday, April 28th, and I asked about the condition of the felts on the hammers, I was told they were “all original” and that “nothing has been done to them.” When I asked if they had been filed, the young man said that they hadn’t, and showed me how flat they were - and stated that they obviously had never been filed.
A simple inspection of the hammer felts will easily show that the young man was right - the hammers haven’t
been filed, and, contrary to the statement by the writer who said, “they certainly would have been filed and voiced as Bill always does when he rebuilds a piano.” Quite simply, they were NOT filed or voiced when he worked on the piano for us, and, possibly John 3:16 as well.
15. The writer states, referring to the work done in 2004, “Bill also went through all of the moving portions of the action including hammer shanks, flanges, whippens and flange pins, making sure all were in working order and replacing all of the parts that were broken or not working properly. The action was regulated; a service that should be performed at least every 10 years. All felt, under and over wire, was replaced. All brass was polished and clear coated. The entire piano was stripped and refinished. It is reasonable to assume that with any kind of minimal care all of these things would still be in good working order 11 years later, and require only minimum adjustment.”
Perhaps, BUT, as a professional - an expert in his field - one would expect Mr. Miller to see these things when he inspected the piano for us, or, in the very least, once he got it back to his shop! If it was THAT bad after 11 years, HE SHOULD HAVE TOLD US!
We did NOT ask him for a COSMETIC evaluation or COSMETIC repairs - he was asked to evaluate it from a MUSICAL and MECHANICAL standpoint, and make appropriate recommendations accordingly. He did not do so.
16. The writer, again, infers that I do not understand how pianos work or how they are to be used by stating that, “It is common knowledge that pianos must be tuned after being moved and that the piano should 'acclimate' to its new surroundings for at least a week before the tuning is done. Pianos will go sharp or flat when exposed to changes in temperature and humidity.” This is another attempt to discredit my evaluation of the piano and it’s performance capabilities. The truth is we let it sit for almost a week, but it was SO BAD that we just couldn’t go through another set of Sunday church services with it sounding like that, so I asked him to come out on Friday, April 24th to retune it.
On that date, I, indeed, did present a list of things wrong with the piano. A revised version of that list has already been submitted to the BBB. Not wanting to bother or disturb Mr. Miller, I left him and went to give my grandchildren some lunch. When I returned, as I stated in my original complaint, Mr. Miller was nowhere to be found, the piano was still out of tune, and one page of the 3 page list was on the piano with his hand written notes stating that the bottom two notes were broken, and that parts were not available, a statement he also made to me in person on Tuesday, April 28th. Mr. Miller never called me (he has a cell phone and knows my number), nor did he leave a note asking me to call him. He just left, leaving an out of tune and unusable piano!
Incidentally, parts ARE available for it, as any professional piano repairmen knows, from Schaff Piano Supply Company of Lake Zurich, Illinois.
17. On April 28th, after having been asked by me to do so, Mr. Miller and his assistant came out to work on the piano, and I produced the list that he asked me to put together when I called him on April 25th , at which time he had he promised he would go through said list and “fix it”, referring to the Wurlitzer.
18. On his visit of April 28th, I did, indeed, watch and listen to Mr. Miller tune the piano. I first noticed that he did not tune every note, nor did he check every note. He mostly dealt with the middle register. Contrary to the assertion of the writer, it was never demonstrated to me that the instrument was in tune using a tone generator. All that was done with regard to tuning was that Mr. Miller used the tuner, turning the tuning pegs in the middle register with his tuning hammer, and then, as they were getting ready to leave, played a few chords for me and pronounced it “in tune”. When I asked about the fact that it was still buzzing, Mr. Miller had me climb under the piano and told me that I should put glue on the tapered ends of each of the wooden “bridges” and that would solve it (which makes me wonder why HE didn’t do so in the first place!). Then they left.
I knew it was out of tune, I knew the dampers were still not working properly, I knew the touch was off, and so forth, so, Bill Miller Piano Warehouse wants to know - then why did I let them leave?
ANSWER: Quite simply, because I knew it would have been a waste of time and effort. After watching them work on a few of the things on my list, which I showed the assistant who skimmed over it and set it down, and after having heard how badly out of tune it still was, plus the instructions to glue it myself, I knew that I wasn’t going to get anywhere dealing with Mr. Miller without some sort of mediation. So, after they left, I sat down and filed my complaint with the BBB. It is my hopes that they will be able to get Mr. Miller to do what he promised.
19. Contrary to what the writer claims, this piano IS UNUSABLE! She’s not seen or heard it in place, so how would she know? A simple listening to it in person or on the video will demonstrate that empirically.
20. The writer states that, “According to Mr. White, Bill cannot do anything right.” This is not true - I have never said anything of the kind. What I have said is that Mr. Miller HASN’T done “right” by us!
21. The writer says, “We don't understand why Mr. White believes he can buy any grand piano for $650.00 and expect the piano to be in perfect condition and no general maintenance would be required. Nor do we understand why he believes that Bill is responsible for regulating the action (a job costing about $1600.00).”
Pardon me, but I am not as stupid as this and other statements in their response try to make me out to be. I did NOT expect to buy the small grand for $650.00 and expect it to be in perfect condition with no general maintenance. I called Mr. Miller out to give his HONEST opinion and PROFESSIONAL assessment as to it’s ACTUAL condition, AND to tell me what it would take, in materials, workmanship, and money, to bring it back up to proper performing standards. My failure was in TRUSTING him to tell me the TRUTH! If this piano really was in such terrible condition when he examined it, then WHY DID HE NOT SAY SO IN THE BEGINNING????
22. The writer thinks that I was distracted by talking to the seller of the organ, who, originally according to the writer, wasn’t there, even though he was. This is not true, and the seller, Mr. Baldwin, will gladly testify to that.
23. Again in an attempt to make it appear as though I am some sort of uneducated clod, the writer states that I, “obviously misunderstood what Bill told him about the piano and what things he would do before taking the piano to the Church. It would appear that he also did not read and discuss the noted repairs before he signed the work order.”
Nonsense! I listened attentively to Mr. Miller’s comments about the instrument, asked intelligent questions about it, read the Work Order carefully, and went through each item on it with Mr. Miller TWICE to make sure I understood what he was proposing, and then I signed it.
Mr. Miller is attempting to use the Work Order as and “out” - because it doesn’t specifically SAY anything about working on the action. However, I took this man at his WORD, which was heard by Mr. Baldwin also, that it had already had $12,000.00 worth of work done to it and, with the addition of the $1,500.00 we were going to pay him he would repair it, bring it back up to proper playing condition, and deliver to us a properly performing instrument to our church.
We BELIEVED him and took him at his WORD, and, if he’s not as good as his WORD, then we believe that he shouldn’t be using the Better Business Bureau’s logo on his website.
24. The writer correctly states that I asked Mr. Miller his opinion of the Wurlitzer. However, she asserts that, just because he gave it to me does not make him responsible for the purchase price.
I contend that it does, FOR: had HE not given such a glowing evaluation of it, and had he not PROMISED that he could repair it and deliver to us a piano that would work very well for us, WE WOULD NOT HAVE PURCHASED IT! Therefore, acting on HIS recommendation, in our view, makes him responsible for what it cost us to buy it, for, if he didn’t lie to us about it, he must be incompetent, and shouldn’t be allowed to go around stating that pianos that really need a lot of work don’t need such work at all!
25. With regard to Bill Miller Piano Warehouse’s suggestion for resolution to this matter, my response is as follows:
A. While we are not opposed to meeting with them and sitting by as they “address” any “issues”, we want to know - specifically - what do they mean by “address”? If that means FIX them, then we are fine with that, but, from the wording of their response, “We will not be doing a $15,000.00 restoration on the piano”, we doubt it if that’s what they mean. In all likelihood, it means something like, “Well, yeah, it has thus-and-so problem, to be sure, but you didn’t pay for that (see the Work Order?), and that’s what would be covered by a full restoration, so we’re not going to do that.”
If that’s the case, we would all be wasting our time, as the problems I have outlined for Mr. Miller are obviously ones he is unwilling to correct.
B. They state that they are not going to do “a $15,000.00 restoration on the piano.” However, if you do the math, $13,500.00 worth of work has already been done on this piano, and, yet, they say it STILL needs $15,000.00 MORE to make it “right”? Pardon me, but that makes no sense at all. You can buy nice new Baldwin for that!
C. They state that they will not replace it with one of their rebuilt $5,000.00 pianos. Why not? If they’ve already been paid - in actual monies - $6,150.00 for work done to the Wurlitzer, why not just take it, give us one of those, finish the restoration and sell it for $12,000.00 and make a nice profit? After all, I am sure that “lady in Ft. Smith” who is looking for one would gladly pay it, since she’d be getting a $3,000.00 discount!
D. I repeat our original position:
We want Mr. Miller to do what he PROMISED - to keep his WORD - and bring the Wurlitzer to proper performance standards. Either that or he takes it and delivers a properly working instrument, or he buys the Wurlitzer for what we have in it and we go another route.
As of this date, he has not replied. He has until May 15th to do so.