Buss Ford Horrible service, no follow through, deceptive practices, owner refuses to return messages Mc Henry Illinois
This is a copy of the email I have now sent TWICE (3/13 & 3/16) to Steve Buss, owner of Buss Ford with no reply. I can only assume this is how Buss conducts business and I am posting my experiences for others to make an informed choice before doing business with this company. (I searched Buss Ford on RipOffReport.com before I did business with them and found no reports)
Again, this is MY personal experience, maybe (hopefully) it's NOT business as usual for Buss Ford, but they ARE my experiences, and I believe that Buss has been given a reasonable amount of time to respond to me, so I am choosing to pass my experiences on...Please pardon the length but it accurately accounts for my experiences.
Hello Steve,
I am emailing you to let you know that unless an attempt is made to retain my business, I will no longer be a customer of Buss Ford for ANY product or service in the future. Although I understand that your time is very valuable as a key member of your organization, I would ask you to read what I have written before you forward it on to someone else to contact me, as I feel I have gone down all avenues available and am making one last effort to communicate my experiences with you. Please pardon the length, but I wanted to include as much information as I could.
I would also like to preface this email by letting you know that my issues are still unresolved, and I would like to allow Buss the opportunity to resolve them.
Roughly a month ago (2/13/2009) I brought my 2005 Ford Taurus to Buss Ford's service department to have some maintenance performed. The things that I intended to have serviced included:
1.(The main reason for my service visit) On-board fuel-economy instrumentation erratic-in the past six months, I have experienced a progressively worsening problem with fuel function readings. For example, I used to fill up on an empty tank and get around a 300 mile to empty readout, however, in the past 6 months or so, it has progressively gone down to 200 miles after a fill up. Also, I can drive as little as 50 miles on a full tank and the fuel gauge will register a 1/2 tank of gas. Also, average miles to empty readout has been progressively worsening as well, in the range of 12-15 MPG (on readout). Although I was not necessarily sure these problems were anything beyond an instrumentation malfunction, I obviously want my onboard fuel economy to register more accurately.
2. A month or so before I brought my car in for service my check engine light came several times-wanted to have this looked at and addressed. I passed on my concern that this may be related to the fuel readout problem - the only reason I thought that they may have been related was due to the fact that I took my car to Auto Zone and had them hook their computer up to my car and the readout of the error code related to a fuel issue.
3. Needed new tires X4.
4. Rotors needed re-surfacing.
5. Needed new wiper blades.
5. Needed trans flush.
6. Needed oil change
I made an appointment with Jason to drop my car off on Friday February 13th, 2009 with the understanding that the car may or may not be ready for pick up Friday afternoon/evening. I called Jason Friday evening and he said they didn't get a chance to look at my car and they would look at it first thing Monday morning. Monday came and went with no contact from Buss Ford.
On Tuesday (3/17) I called and inquired about the status of the repairs and found out that Jason was not working Tuesday. The service representative I spoke with, Bob, advised me that Buss had attempted to call me Monday and I asked him what number he called. He gave me a number that was an out of area number (713-387-1800) which I see printed on my final work order as my "residence phone" and told me that that was the number he had for me. I let him know that this was not my number at all and they must have confused me with another customer. At this point I begin to get mildly irritated.
On Friday Jason told me that I would be picking up my car Either Friday or Monday "At the latest", now it's Tuesday and I am finding out that a whole day (Monday) has gone by needlessly due to a clerical error and Buss Ford not being able to contact me to go over and approve work to be performed. I approve the charges and agree on a price of $930 "out the door" for the services listed above. I am told that the computer system that monitors the gasoline consumption is "not always accurate" and that Buss hooked up a computer to my car and got a reading over 24 instant MPG.
I re-iterate that the instrumentation has gotten significantly more erratic and I thought that there was a bigger problem that was not being addressed. I was told that there were no problems found with the fuel system and to basically ignore the fact that the instrumentation has gone from reading 300 (ish) miles to empty on a fill up to 200 (ish) miles to empty on a fill up, along with the other erratic behaviors mentioned in #1, my main reason for bringing my car in for service in the first place.
When I came to pick up my car on Tuesday evening I was given a price by Bob of $970, and was told that "Jason must not have included tax in the work order", keep in mind we discussed "out the door pricing" ($930). After several minutes of convincing Bob that my agreed price was $930 he agreed to take off shop fees to bring my price down to $930. Again, mildly irritating, but mistakes do happen.
Although I felt uneasy about the fact that the problem had not been addressed, I paid and left after Bob told me that it's basically just a "unreliable system" of measuring fuel economy. (Still, after only driving 50 or so miles, the gas gauge shouldn't be on 1/2 tank, I shouldn't be getting 12 MPG gallon readout when 6 months ago I was getting 18-20 MPG readout-a huge difference. )
On 3/11/2009 less than a month after picking up my car (and less than 200+/- miles) while driving I noticed that my gas gauge had flat-lined, basically gone to a static position well beyond the red "E"-line. I also noticed a message that read "Fuel Comp Err". I immediately called Buss Ford and Spoke to Jason and told him what was happening. I also told him that my average MPG had worsened and were now at 11 MPG. I expressed frustration due to the fact that this issue was related to the issue I brought the car in for a month ago. Jason told me that I would have to pay $50-100 to diagnose the problem if I was to bring it in again. I expressed my unhappiness with this as the issue should have been addressed a month ago, and told him that I didn't think it was fair that I would have to pay for diagnostic charges at this point.
Now keep in mind that I also wanted to have additional work done at Buss, work that Jason had put in a quote in my invoice (#164421)in addition to having the fuel system addressed, again. I expressed this to Jason and told him that I wanted to come back to Buss, but it certainly didn't feel fair that I would have to be inconvenienced by diagnostic fees at this point because there was clearly something that was overlooked in the first place. (I understand mistakes happen, just don't penalize ME for them!)
Jason advised me that he would have to check with his service manager Bob and get back to me. He told me to expect a call back Wednesday. I ended up calling Jason back at around 11AM on Thursday because I had not heard back from him. Based on his reaction when I called (he said they got "bust Wednesday night") and by the time I was on hold, I am certain that he had not talked to Bob until this point, which really irritated me-I understand I am not your only customer, but I was promised a call back Wednesday and it's 11AM on Thursday-even if there was no time to call me back Wednesday, you're service dept. has been open for 4 hours at this point.... He put me on hold and 3-5 minutes later Bob came on the phone telling me that I hadn't told Buss about my erratic fuel gauge/computer problems when I first came in. Nonsense, I told him, this was the reason I brought my car to a Ford dealership in the first place. Bob went on to tell me about a Ford bulletin that stated that my vehicle was susceptible to sulfur deposits/buildup; and that before any items were replaced and or repaired, Ford was strongly advising customers to choose gasoline with minimal sulfur levels; Bob also told me that Ford recommends BP gasoline, and even told me that a Chevron fuel additive may help the issue. He offered to provide me with a complimentary bottle of the additive as well.
At this point I decided to move forward with the additional 2 items Jason had originally quoted me and told Bob I wanted to bring my car in. Bob transferred me back to Jason to make an appointment . Jason told me that I could bring my car in Tuesday and I began to confirm pricing on the quoted items. Jason went on to quote me a total of over $700, which according to Jason, reflected a "savings" as opposed to doing these 2 maintenance items separately (Strut Bearing replacement and Wheel Bearing Replacement) Now keep in mind that the combined total Jason put in writing a month ago on my work order was $500 for these 2 items. The reason I confirmed pricing was due to the "misunderstanding" of out the door pricing in my last experience with Buss. When I inquired about why the total had gone up by over $200, Jason replied by looking up the quote and answered, "I must have not included parts".
At this point I am REALLY starting to feel like Buss ford is trying to take me for a ride. This is now the 2nd time Buss has made a significant accounting error in their favor. I express my concern to Jason and he advises me he will "match" the price he put in the quote; (oh boy, you're going to honor your promise, WOW, sorry, you're not doing me any favors here.)
I tell Jason that I am not going to keep my appointment and that I will not be returning to Buss and I want to tell Bob why and Jason transfers me to Bob's voicemail. I leave him a message and several hours later call him back only to find out he has "gone to lunch". (WOW, I hope he's enjoying his lunch hour, all I want at this point is a reason to come back to Buss as I don't want to shop around for a new dealer) Several hours later, I call Bob back again after not hearing from him, and ask if he got my voicemail. He says he did. Wow, ok, apparently Buss doesn't care about me at all even though I just dropped almost $1,000 and am needing $500+ in additional work. I told Bob that I needed a reason to come back to Buss. He tells me that they are going to honor the original quote which is "much less" than I would pay anywhere else. Now keep in mind that although this may be the case, Buss should have put themselves in MY shoes. I'm not going to feel like Buss is going out of their way to keep me as a customer by following through with what was promised in the first place, especially after Jason tried to charge me an additional $200 and all of the other "errors" Buss has made this far. I told Bob I was not asking for Bob to give away the store, but I really needed a reason at this point to pass another Ford Dealer on my way to Buss (a 30 minute drive from Crystal Lake) Bob told me that in his "30 years of doing this that he has never seen where a discount would redeem errors and retain customers" HOGWASH. What planet are you on Bob? Although people are repairing cars right now in the current economic climate rather than buying cars, I can't see how he can leave my money on the table! Again, I did WANT to come back to Buss, I just needed Buss to, in some way, show understanding that I have not had the best experiences to date. I wasn't even asking for anything in particular, I just needed a token gesture of good faith. I didn't quantify what that should have been, I just figured that Buss could come up with something...
Bob even said himself "Look, we haven't done anything to earn your trust at this point"...so I tell him: "EARN IT BACK!", give me a REASON to come back-I'm 28 years old, I'll buy many more cars and have these cars serviced and maintained many more times, do you really want this to be the last contact I ever have with your dealership? Bob basically said yes by saying nothing. I could hear him sipping his drink and could imagine him staring off into the distance, he was just not interested and this was painfully obvious. Basically he told me that he couldn't' do anything but honor the quote. At this point, I have been on the phone with Bob and Jason for an hour, and I have missed a 12:00PM appointment that my wife and I had.
Sorry Buss Ford. That doesn't cut it.
Here's a re-cap of what I experienced to date with Buss
1. My main reason for bringing the vehicle in for service was not addressed, and I was accused of "not telling Buss I was experiencing these problems".... why didn't someone at least tell me about the gasoline additive a month ago??? (which I am not convinced will solve the problem-I bought it yesterday and don't have high hopes) My car's gas gauge and all instrumentation is totally unreliable and I have no idea how much fuel is in my tank because of this. Not a good thing if I run out of gas with my baby in the car!!!
2. Buss wanted to charge me additional monies to have this problem "re-evaluated" a month later
3. My car sat on your lot needlessly for a day because somehow another customers phone # was entered into my account information in your computer system.
4. The total you tried to charge me was $40 more than agreed price
5. Buss tried to overcharge me more than $200 on additional work on my 2nd service visit.
I'm sure if you were in MY shoes you would feel uneasy at this point as well.
Why should I choose Buss Ford again, even thought I want to, I want to feel like you guys appreciate ME-the little guy. The guy that keeps YOU in business.
_________________________________________________________
Apparently Buss Ford doesn't appreciate ME, the little guy. So I choose to take my business elsewhere. The most powerful tool a consumer can use.
Colin
Anywhere, Illinois
U.S.A.
5 Updates & Rebuttals
Colin
Anywhere,Illinois,
U.S.A.
UPDATE
#6Author of original report
Sat, March 28, 2009
Just wanted to update with the actual cause of the instrumentation problem. Turns out it was a bad flex fuel module, a $50 part. It took my (new) mechanic less than a day to figure this out. My fuel gauge now reads the correct fuel level and my miles to empty, average miles to gallon, ect are now reading appropriately. When I fill up my instrumentation reads nearly 400 miles to empty, which was my initial complaint when I brought my car into Buss Ford, Amazing, turns out my two "unrelated problems" were related with one fix.
Also, I found out that Buss had left a hose to my engine unplugged (the hood of my car has not been opened since it was at Buss) which my mechanic showed me. This was actually causing my car to "stutter" and It was painfully obvious, even to me (and keep in mind I am NOT mechanically inclined) that the hose that was disconnected, just another fine example of Buss's poor work.
Buss Ford didn't fix my issues, created new issues, gave me bad advice for fixing my issues that they couldn't fix (fuel additives) and tried to overcharge me, not once but twice. If you like getting jerked around Buss Ford is the place to go. Just be prepared to take your car to a REAL mechanic when you get your car back.
Colin
Anywhere,Illinois,
U.S.A.
Buss Ford McHenry, IL continues deceit in rebuttal and "consumer comment"
#6Author of original report
Fri, March 27, 2009
On 3/13/2009, two weeks ago, I emailed Steve Buss, Owner of Buss Ford, giving him an opportunity address my concerns. (the email I sent him is above) He chose to ignore my email. The only response I have received from Buss is their rebuttal, above, which closes with: "In closing we wish to thank you for the opportunity to respond to these concerns and present our side of this issue"... Why didn't Buss ford respond to me, the customer? Why is it that it's only after posting my Rip Off Report that Buss wanted to present their side of the issue? Funny how that works, huh? I'm not going to discuss the actual mechanical/instrumentation issues because I believe that it's a moot point...read on.
Let's look further into the "consumer comment", posted by; what is presented as, an un-interested, 3rd party with no relation to Buss Ford.
-Note that the comment was submitted one the same day as Buss Ford's rebuttal. It's also clear that they purposely chose to post the consumer comment in the late PM, whereas the rebuttal was written in the early AM, likely to avoid looking like the two posts were connected. Also notice how the "consumer" has many mis-spellings and uses rough language, an another attempt to make the "consumer" distanced from Buss Ford.
-Note that the person who posted the consumer comment also resides in McHenry, IL, minutes away From Buss Ford, another shocking coincidence!
-Note that this person makes several references that indicate he is a mechanic, or mechanically inclined...he uses phrases like:"I know for a fact"..."the service bulletin is a suggestion"...So it's just a coincidence that the "consumer" lives near Buss Ford, is a mechanic, or mechanically inclined, and posted his comment on the same day as Buss Ford's rebuttal...right. But wait, there's more!
-Note how the person tries to "distance himself" from the Buss employees by wrapping their names in quotes, pretty easy to see through in spite of all the above.
-Note that the person closes with "-me" If this is just a "consumer comment" why wouldn't the person post his name? Why am I the only one that's not afraid to admit who I am?
-Note that the "consumer" says things like: "We are humans and make mistakes, that is why whenever I have my vehicle serviced ANYWHERE, I make sure I write my Ph# down just in case!" Who is he referring to when he says: "WE are humans"? Also, it seems like this person is trying to infer that maybe I didn't write my phone number down, which I did, why would an un-interested party make this assumption? He also says: "Again, an honest mistake it sounds like." This person is clearly in favor of Buss.
-It's also worth noting, that after doing an advanced search on ripoffreport.com, the ONLY posting user: Tgbiggin has ever posted was this one, more than likely a newly created Rip Off Report account for this sole purpose, and not a passive uninterested party as they have attempted to make it look.
Anyone with an IQ of 2 can see that this was written either by a Buss Ford employee or at the request of Buss Ford to make it look like a consumer comment. Buss has posted permanent proof that they are less than honest by doing this.
_____________________________________________________________
UPDATE: After doing a bit of research, I have found that the consumer comment came from a 25 year old guy named Tim Green, who works for an automotive parts company near Buss Ford. He also used to work for a local Ford dealership as a sales rep. If you Google his username: Tgbiggin, you'll find allot of Ford related forum posts. It also looks like he owns quite a few Fords himself, 2 Mustangs, F-150, Windstar, which I'm sure were purchased at Buss Ford. This is clearly not a passerby, this was a deliberate attempt to deceive future customers by having Tim post his a falsified consumer comment.
Tech1
Laurel,Maryland,
U.S.A.
ok
#6Consumer Comment
Fri, March 27, 2009
Engine light Flickering is most likely related to a common DTC a misfire p030x(most Common). An O2 sensor or a Mass DTC won't set the Flashing Light (which means stop driving the car you are doing damage to it). You have multiple complaints that sound unrelated. And the first test on MPG was normal you can only diagnose a problem if it is present at the time. Many times you have to do a repair to go the next step fail. (And I am not talking about parts replacing I am talking about you have one component fixed. In order to test the other part the first must be fixed.
Tgbiggin
McHenry,Illinois,
U.S.A.
Two Issues
#6Consumer Comment
Wed, March 25, 2009
It really sounds like you have had two different issues and you are relating them since it has to do with fuel economy.
I know for a fact, that the fuel economy gauge isnt not a 'true' reading. What it does, it takes in to effect, all times that vehicle is running. So for example, if I left my car running for an hour, I would see a dramatic drop in my insturmentation. Of course once I start moving again, I would see it slowly start to go up. Really all it is, is an average since the car was started.
It is very likely that 'Jason' had a tech drive the car and hook it up to see what the live reading was. How else do you think the insturmentation gets its information? The scan tools used by technicians now are so powerful they can almost drive the friggin car!
You claim that your second problem was the check engine light flickering on and off. Usually if there is a REAL problem, it would just stay on. But if you have a slow O2 sensor, or a dirty Mass Air Flow sensor, it can cause it to flicker on and off. That is atleast what my experiance is. A very common thing that most people dont know about or over look is, is the gas cap tight? The fuel system on new vehicles is supossed to have the right amount of vaccum in it. If the cap was loose, it would cause the CEL to come on. The vacuum test is at random.
Here is a list of your issues, and I will add my own thoughts....
1. My main reason for bringing the vehicle in for service was not addressed, and I was accused of "not telling Buss I was experiencing these problems".... why didn't someone at least tell me about the gasoline additive a month ago??? (which I am not convinced will solve the problem-I bought it yesterday and don't have high hopes) My car's gas gauge and all instrumentation is totally unreliable and I have no idea how much fuel is in my tank because of this. Not a good thing if I run out of gas with my baby in the car!!!
- My response - The service bulletin is a suggestion, its not a fix. It also sounds like you have two separate issues, with the gauges and then thinking its getting bad gas milage.
2. Buss wanted to charge me additional monies to have this problem "re-evaluated" a month later
- This is because it sounds like it is two different issues
3. My car sat on your lot needlessly for a day because somehow another customers phone # was entered into my account information in your computer system.
- Whosed to blame? Who knows? Could it have been a typo? We are humans and make mistakes, that is why whenever I have my vehicle serviced ANYWHERE, I make sure I write my Ph# down just in case!
4. The total you tried to charge me was $40 more than agreed price
- No Comment honestly
5. Buss tried to overcharge me more than $200 on additional work on my 2nd service visit.
- Again, an honest mistake it sounds like.
I cannot stick up for 'Jason' or Steve. I just wanted to add what knowledge I do have to this situation and try to ease your mind.
Thanks
Me
Management Staff
McHenry,Illinois,
U.S.A.
Rebuttle to customer service complaint.
#6UPDATE Employee
Tue, March 24, 2009
This rebuttal is being posted by Buss Ford Lincoln Mercury to address three issues as noted in the customer complaint:
1. The reputation of Buss Ford Lincoln Mercury.
2. The customers concern that we did not provide a service that he requested.
3. The error in our additional required repair estimate
1. Buss Ford Lincoln Mercury has been serving the McHenry and Chicago area for more than 80 years. With our reputation of being one of the premier Ford Lincoln Mercury dealers in the Chicago land area, we strive to keep our customers satisfied both in sales and service.
Buss Ford is a certified Blue Oval Dealer, which means one thing, the commitment to the highest standards in customer satisfaction. Blue Oval Certified is all about one thing: Customer Service. It's about doing whatever it takes to make your experience a pleasant one, whether you're coming in to buy or lease a new car or Certified Pre-Owned vehicle, or just need to get parts or service. A dealership that achieves Blue Oval Certification must commit to our highest standards of customer satisfaction. That's why becoming Blue Oval Certified isn't a given, it's something a dealership has to earn. Dealership employees are proud to be essential members of Team Blue Oval. Each and every employee of a Blue Oval Certified Dealership contributes something unique to the success of the entire dealership and has opportunities to win service awards and earn recognition. Buss Ford Lincoln Mercury is proud to be Blue Oval Certified.
Buss Ford Lincoln Mercury is also the proud recipient of the coveted Ford Motor Company President's Award for 13 years. The President's Award recognizes Dealers who achieve the highest levels of customer satisfaction in both sales and service within their respective Customer Viewpoint Group. Winners of the award are organizations with a customer-focused mentality, a commitment to sound processes and, most important, outstanding team members. We were recently presented this award again for 2008.
2. Mr. Thomas brought his 2005 Ford Taurus to our facility for various repairs to be performed on 2/13/2009. Our service advisor provided assistance during the customer vehicle drop off, provide a free loaner vehicle and documented the vehicle concerns. The prime issue and item in question as noted on the face to face work order preparation was a check engine light coming on and off and vehicle average miles per gallon at 12.
We informed the customer that an Electronic Engine Control drivability diagnostic check would be required to diagnose the issue. Fee for that service is $98.00 plus additional repairs as required. A thorough test and evaluation of the system revealed cylinder misfire codes both at normal engine operation and at start up. Additional diagnostics showed that the cause of this issue was linked to the processor itself which required a reprogramming strategy. This reprogramming was performed, the system reset, vehicle road tested and reevaluated for any additional concerns in the EEC system. During this road test a fuel economy test was performed that reflected in the ability of the vehicle to achieve an average miles per gallon rating of 23.5. These results were stored and printed. All systems passed the retesting process. Final charge for Diagnostics and reprogramming: $127.95.
Mr. Thomas then contacted us a few weeks following this repair to inform us that his fuel gauge and message center were malfunctioning. He was informed that a diagnostic evaluation would have to be done on that system (not related to the Electronic Engine Control System) to determine the issue. Mr. Thomas felt that the issue was related to the original concern, which it was not. Most, but not all concerns in this area, are related to the fuel pump and sending unit that provides data to the instrument cluster. This and many other vehicles are effected by sulfur build up from high sulfur content gasoline on the fuel card causing erratic fuel gauge and message center operation. We explained that the diagnostics for this particular concern was not related in any way to the Electronic Engine Control System. In addition we offered at no charge two free bottles of Ford recommended additive that has had a high success rate in removing the sulfur deposits and restoring proper fuel gauge operation. We have had many vehicles that never required repair after having this procedure performed.
In conclusion, prior vehicle repair was not related to this concern.
3. During a follow up phone conversation after his 2/13/2009 service visit Mr. Thomas referred to a prior estimate that had been provided for repairs on his 2005 Ford Taurus. These repair estimates were as follows:
Replacement of upper front strut bearings.
Replacement of right front wheel bearing and hub assembly.
These two items as noted by Mr. Thomas were approximately $500.00.
When we were recontacted to verify the estimate our advisor noted that an error on the initial quote did not include all parts required for the repairs in question.
When Mr. Thomas inquired about the price difference our advisor informed him of his error and after consulting with his manager stated that even though the repairs were approximately $200.00 more we would honor the original estimate of $500.00. In conclusion, this was an honest mistake and we were willing to stand behind the original quote for customer satisfaction.
In closing we wish to thank you for the opportunity to respond to these concerns and present our side of this issue.
Respectfully,
Buss Ford Lincoln Mercury