Complaint Review: Champion Window Manufacturing & Supply Co. LLC

Worst company ever! Absolutely awful experience at every turn!!

We asked to be fully indemnified for the large crack put in the driveway by the dumpster. It stretches about 15 feet in total length and is very noticeable on what had been a clean looking driveway. (See attached picture)

While discussing the driveway crack the project manager Mick Atwell got hot headed once again, enough that my mother thought there was going to be a fist fight. He was very disrespectful, unprofessional, raising his voice and trying to intimidate us all in front of the division manager Brent Luettel and Brent wasn't doing anything about it! After several minutes of this I finally told him that any employer I've ever worked for, if I talked to a customer the way he was talking to me they would fire me on the spot. At that point the division manager began quieting the project manager up and sent him around back to correct work. It's hard to believe champion being an A+ rated BBB member would allow an employee to talk to their customers the way he talked to me.

While we were trying to discuss the crack the dumpster put in our driveway the hothead project manager also threatened to put a lien on the house! Our family is not full of money, this is the only house my 78-year-old mother has to live in. Her monthly income isn't that much and she is not in any position to have her home taken from her! So we proceeded cautiously under threat of losing our house to this "A+ rated" BBB member.

The project managers experience is either not good or out dated. The deck and landing that they built were not up to current building codes. They failed the city inspection for multiple code violations. They built us a deck such that it was possible a child's head could get stuck between the balusters and the stairs they built on the landing were unsafe and could have caused someone serious injury. I emailed them before the start of the business day on Monday, October 20 listing out a host of things that we needed corrected/resolved. One of those things was that the stairs stringer had just two boards attached underneath holding the stairs up. This was not up to code and was not safe. Decks are actually the most dangerous part of the home structure from statistics that I've read. More people are killed or seriously injured on decks than any other part of the home structure because of unsafe building techniques. We went with champion because we believed we could trust that an"A+" rated BBB company would know how to build a sunroom/deck/landing that it is safe and up to current building codes.

When I notified them early morning before business hours on Monday, October 20 about the stairs and other issues you would think an A+ rated BBB member would put their customer first and reach out to them about their issues and concerns. Not the case here. I had sent the Oct 20 email directly to the division manager and the project manager and also carbon copied the email to kansascity@championfactorydirect.com the general email for champions Kansas City branch. The only response I received was from the project manager ignoring EVERYTHING I wrote in the email except to tell me that the final inspection from the city would be at 3:30 the next day. In his email reply he did not address WHATSOEVER the stairs only being held up by just two boards nor any of the other concerns/code violations!

This company tried to pull a fast one and moved forward with the city inspection in hopes the inspector would not notice the violations and then they would not have to fix the unsafe work they did that wasn't up to current building codes. Why else would they ignore a email with a list of 19 issues and only respond they are moving forward with the city inspection at 3:30 the next day?? By the project manager replying to my email, they clearly received my email yet they ignored the issues/concerns and code violations that would need corrected prior to inspection?? I even sent them very good pictures illustrating the problems so they could see right away and not have to wait make a special trip to our home. Any experienced engineer looking at those pictures can see the stairs stringers were not attached safely and the metal floor hanger/support was not attached safely either. Yet they push ahead with the inspection before fixing problems brought to their attention? Of course the next day they failed the city inspection on both of those violations and more. When someone pays $36,000+ of hard earned life savings, it is extremely disappointing to be treated this way. When you communicate clearly including pictures that provide enough compelling evidence and then they move forward with inspection before fixing those violations?? Not what we expected from an A+ rated BBB member.

Oct 21, no one from champion even showed up to the city inspection. The city inspector found multiple code violations between the work that champion did and the work champions subcontracted electricians did. City said all of these violations were unsafe and ordered them to be corrected or it would not pass inspection.

At the end of business day on Tuesday, October 21 still no one opening/reading/responding to champion Kansas city's general email, nor the project manager, not even the division manager responded to my concerns emailed before business Monday Oct 20th. Finally 2.5 business days later on the afternoon of October 22 the division manager finally responses to my email from Monday, October 20 yet HE ALSO does not respond to ANY of the issues/concerns/code violations, only emails putting me off two more business days when he wanted take a look in person that Friday, October 24. I emailed him back letting him know I certainly could meet with him that Friday however I had been anxiously awaiting a response since Monday and I would like to hear from someone regarding my concerns as we were already in the fifth week of what was supposed to be a two-week project. Finally on Thursday afternoon October 23, after 3.5 business days of unresponsiveness the division manager responded to the issues/concerns/code violations. By this point they had already failed the city inspection for the code violations.

When the division manager did respond Oct 23rd he dropped a bomb on us. He told us "we don't do French drains". Now from the very beginning with the salesman we had discussed how we wanted French drains and he said it was no problem and it would be in the contract. In the original contract the salesman wrote "2 French drain", but after adding another option to the purchase a new contract was needed and when he wrote up a new contract in that contract he wrote "downspout to connect to French drains". The wording seemed fine to me for shorthand and the salesman had given us no reason not to trust him. Moving forward as expected we had discussed these French drains with the project manager and the workers on site and none of these people ever said "we don't do French drains". In fact the workers on site seemed like they didn't want to do the hard digging work involved and even tried to talk us out of the French drains suggesting doing something that we felt was inferior to French drains. They said to us "we can dig you French drains but we're just going to tear up your yard", never once did they say "we don't do French drains". We bought this in June INCLUDING French drains, spoke with multiple people at Champion as outlined above about those French drains and then come late October the division manager says "we don't do French drains"??? When the division manager comes out to meet with us he insisted the contract wording was in his favor and he wasn't budging, he wasn't going to have his company put in French drains. This IS dirty business.

The project manager wrote in an email to me on July 30 "rest assured that we will absolutely install your project to your satisfaction". This is the same "satisfaction guarantee" that the salesman gave us several times too yet we are far from satisfied at this point.

The following is a summarized list of reasons why we reject the businesses response to this complaint:

A: The 15 foot long crack in driveway was not fully indemnified for. They said the crack could be fixed for not much but the repair was done this week and the repair actually makes it look MORE noticeable, you see a much more obvious large crack now in what was a clean looking driveway before we hired champion for our project! The repair cost was $945 because the company said we needed the entire driveway resealed. Champion only gave us $500 for the driveway crack so there should be another $445 reimbursed for this expense. Please find the attached picture of the invoice which details out the part for the driveway for $945.

If we go to sell the home we are going to get something less for it than we would have if this large crack wasn't running down the driveway. This is not right and the company should do the right thing and fully indemnify us for it. When we bought our sunroom they did not tell us that we would therefore also receive a home value reducing crack to our driveway that we would have to live with and look at every day. It wasn't part of the deal to get a sunroom on the back of the house to enjoy the beauty of a backyard, while getting an eyesore placed on the front of the house in our driveway. That wasn't part of the agreement. It was reasonable for us to expect that no damage like this would be done to our property in the course of Champion building the sunroom/deck.

Please find the attached pictures showing the original receipt when the driveway was installed in 2006 for a price of $4650. Additionally please find the attached picture showing the cost to have the driveway sealed at $699, so a total cost $5349 was paid for the driveway and sealant. Champion needs to do the right thing and make it as it was before, when we had a nice clean looking driveway. If they just redid a couple of the concrete squares on the driveway it would look off colored from the other squares, so you have to put in an entire new driveway to make things as they were before. To make this right they should refund $5349 for the cost that was paid to have that driveway put in and sealed so that we can have it redone. Plus the remaining $445 that was paid attempting to fix this crack makes a total of $5794 which should be refunded to make things as they were before and fully indemnify us for this crack.

B: We asked to have the wall panel replaced that the electricians put a hole in and the panel was not replaced. We still have a hole in our wall that now looks more noticeable with this extra piece sticking out up above the surface.

Project manager said to replace that wall panel it would require them to jack up the roof and do a bunch of work that would be pretty much like having to tear down the sunroom and rebuild it. Well this is not our fault. We bought a sunroom without a hole in it, but what they gave us is a sunroom with a hole in it. This is not what was described in the contract.

The day the city came back out the inspector did acknowledge something needed to be done regarding the railings going down the stairs as they were not up to code. There was a lot going on when he brought it up and we quickly got off that subject and he never remembered to address this with champion. By the time I remembered the city had left so I asked champion to put up a handrail on the stairs which could help make up for the hole in the wall and make our stairs safe to use as they should be. But a $35 handrail and $5 mounting brackets from Lowe's is not enough to fully compensate for this hole in the wall.

We went with champion because of the hopes of having a very energy-efficient room but with this hole in the wall there will be at least a small amount of heat and cool air that will escape. This new sunroom would be valued at something less because there's a hole in the wall than it would if the sunroom had no hole in the wall. We would like to be compensated something that is fair for the loss in value on the sunroom because of this hole and something to make it fair to live with the blemish, reduced energy efficiency, and for maintenance needs down the road to keep it closed up.

C: 1-2 French drains were not put in. The only thing they would do for us is connect the downspout which drains the entire new roof over the sunroom/deck into our existing 4" French drain. Our existing 4" French drain could handle all of the water it was receiving before, but now with all of the additional water from the new sunroom/deck roof we are concerned that during times of heavy rain the 4" French drain may not be big enough to handle all the additional water causing it to overflow and flood the area. We really needed at least one of the French drains put in and now we may have to replace our existing 4" French drain with a 6" French drain if it isn't big enough when it's tested under heavy rain.

When we considered the final price before purchasing this sunroom we considered that the French drains cost about $1000-1500 each to put in. It was discussed that we would get one or two French drains depending on how we did it. We wouldn't have agreed to the price we agreed to without the French drains being included, we figured those into the price that we were paying. Since that was part of the deal it is not fair that they walk away without refunding us back $1000 for at least one French drain they should have installed.

D: What we thought would be a very positive experience from a "A+ rated" BBB member turned out to be one big stressful headache after another. We think it only right that champion makes some good faith effort to compensate us something for all the trouble, headaches, stress and time lost because of the poor service received with this purchase.

Just to give an idea of what we've been dealing with with champion in Kansas City, here is a list of just a few of the other problems we've had along the way to make it clear just how difficult of a time we have had with champion:

~ Before the sunroom roof was sealed champion installed the heater/air conditioner unit on the north side of the west wall. There was high chances of wet weather in the forecast for several days ahead and water leaked everywhere raining down inside the brand-new sunroom. On the walls, on the subfloor and on the heater/air conditioner unit. When we discovered the leaking we acted fast to cover up the heater/air conditioner with trash bags in hopes it wouldn't be damaged, and I'm not sure what type of damage the water may have done to the subfloor, interior ceiling, interior walls or other parts of the room. They should not have installed the heater/air conditioner unit until the roof was sealed but I think they were trying to get out of sending one of their workers back to do it later.

During this time we had no sealed roof on our sunroom and wet weather in the forecast the project manager scheduled the electricians to come out and install the electrical work even though he knew the roofers were very busy and had no idea how long it would be before they could come out to seal the roof. In hindsight thankfully those other issues prevented the electrical work getting done on time otherwise it would've been raining all over the new electrical work! They are supposed to be the professionals but they are careless making such potentially dangerous mistakes like that. Champion should've put a tarp up over our roof since they installed the heater/air conditioner without the roof being sealed and high chances for rain forecasted for several days ahead. And it did rain for those several days leaking water all inside our new sunroom. I have pictures and video of it raining inside of our sunroom and the water that got on our heater/air conditioner unit.

~They built the landing such that my mother cannot reach the faucet handle to turn on the water hose anymore because there's not enough room. I am more agile and am able to stretch enough to reach it but for my mother there simply is not enough room. I brought up to the workers prior to them building the landing that I feared there would not be enough room to access the faucet handle and waterspout because I had noticed the concrete for one of the landing post was very close to the house and it looked like it would block us from accessing the faucet handle and water spout. They insisted to me that there would be more than enough room to still access the faucet handle and water spout once the landing was built. Now this too is something we have to live with.

~ Even though I emailed them pictures and detailed explanations Champion sent the city out for final inspection anyway and the city failed them on the unsafe stairs plus numbers 4, 7, 11, 12, 13, 22, 24, 26 and 27 from my list of issues because they were all code violations that were not safe.

~The salesman was highly responsive prior to the contract being signed, once it was signed we were trying to get pricing on the rolled roof and it lasted about three weeks longer than a price check should have or would have prior to the contract being signed. Told me on several occasions he would call me and then never would so I had to keep calling him back on it.

~Before the project was started I emailed the project manager twice with specific questions and his ability to reply to all my questions was poor.

~When we had questions about the electrical layout/design/other, the workers and the project manager all told us we had to speak to the electricians when they came. Understandable. But when it came time to have the electricians come they no showed on us the first day then they showed up an hour late on the second day by which time my mother had an appointment she needed to be at and had no time left to discuss the electrical. The third time they showed up an hour early and I wasn't there yet and they tried to strong-arm my mom saying that if she didn't let them in they would not come back. So she went downstairs to open the garage door and let them in and just in that time they hopped in their vehicle and left. On top of all that I had talked to one of the electrical workers while they were at the house and I informed him I would be there within 30 minutes and he told me that was ok. Then when I show up they were gone and they never came back all day. Fourth time they finally show up when they said they would. So finally we are getting our chance to ask our electrical questions to decide the design/layout/other but as we are doing this the electricians began getting agitated and impatient telling us they had lost money because they had come out so many times and they needed to get right to installing and didn't have time to fully discuss with us how we wanted everything done. They rushed us and were strong-arming us to just let them lay out everything where they would put it. They also tried to talk us out of getting a new circuit ran to the room even though that's what we had paid for with the electrical package not to mention the existing circuit they wanted to use was running a bunch of other electrical in our home already. The owner did not seem to have much control over his two workers. Then some of the electrical work they did was not even up to code. They used one of those flexible lines outside where it needs to be enclosed in PVC so they failed inspection on that. The 240 V line they ran underneath the sunroom was not enclosed with enough PVC on either end which didn't meet code and also failed city inspection. Beyond that they installed the ceiling light quite crooked and when they came back to fix it they bent the metal base so bad that champion covered a replacement light. They damaged/crushed our downspout under the landing that was running horizontal from the house while installing electrical, thankfully this was being replaced anyway because champion had used the wrong color downspout. They were rushing so much installing our electrical that they didn't measure properly and they drilled from the inside of the room accidentally drilling a unusable hole in our wall that was to be for the outdoor light fixture. Only the hole was in the wrong spot, a spot that was too close to the outer wall of house that it was literally impossible to install the outdoor light fixture there because of inadequate room requiring them to drill a new hole for the outdoor light fixture where there would be enough room for it.

In the end we were not happy with how the electrical was laid out running down the ceiling and wall to supply electricity to the west wall power outlet. This looks bad and they should've ran that electrical line underneath the sunroom and come up from the floor so that there would've only been a little bit of track running up the wall from the floor. But because we were rushed through everything that's what got done and that's what we have to live with. Champion should be able to answer their customers electrical questions or see to it that ample time is provided with the electricians for that to be done. By the way the salesman never told us the electrical work would be subcontracted out, that came as a surprise to us after the sale.

At this point we are not sure where else to turn. We have included champion corporate headquarters in Cincinnati Cincinnati@championfactorydirect.com and the CEO of champion Todd Dickson on some of our email correspondence and no one even at champions corporate headquarters has ever tried to reached out to us about these problems.

During the six weeks of the installation the Kansas City Royals were doing very well making it to the World Series and I came to learn over the radio that champion was one of the "proud" sponsors of the Kansas City Royals. We have experienced anything but world-class service with champion and now I'm thinking we'll let the Royals know too how this proud sponsor of theirs delivers customer experiences like the nightmare we've endured. I don't believe the Kansas City Royals would want to tarnish their reputation with a sponsor like this.

The only other options left available to us are filing complaints with the attorney general's offices in Kansas, Missouri and Ohio. (We have now filed complaints with the attorney general's office in Kansas and the attorney general's office in Ohio and with the Federal Trade Commission) Beyond that we can at least take to the Internet to warn other consumers about their business practices that we've had to live through. I can post a YouTube video with a collage of all of the pictures I've taken the last several weeks of the bad work and unsafe things that were not up to code along with video clips of it raining in our sunroom before they sealed the roof to show the bad and careless work they did. We can post reviews of our experience with champion on the top 15-20 Internet review sites and complaint/rip-off report sites so that consumers can find the story of our awful experience at the top of search results in Google, Yahoo and Bing. Then take to our social media accounts and warn friends and followers with links to the reviews, pictures and video so that we can warn as many people as possible about our awful experience with this company. We can use #ChampionWindowProblems or something similar to organize on Twitter.

Upon further online research I've now come across a lot of other consumers who have also had bad experiences with champion. Some are even claiming that the windows and other products we bought from champion are not manufactured by Champion as the salesman represented to us. They're saying the windows are actually Cardinal Glass Company E366 glass. I'll have to look into this further but the salesman definitely told us that they manufacture all of their own windows and sunrooms at their factory in Cincinnati. If that is not the case then there may be some product mis-representation here as well. For reference, here are just a few links to some of the almost endless complaints I have found online about this company:

https://plus.google.com/app/basic/local/117069265892370872117/reviews?hl=en&socfid=web:lu:unknown:unknown&socpid=1

http://www.complaintsboard.com/bycompany/champion-windows-a1442.html

http://www.complaintsboard.com/complaints/champion-windows-c14369.html

http://www.complaintsboard.com/complaints/champion-windows-c265568.html

http://champion-window.pissedconsumer.com

I can set up an easy Wordpress website like www.ChampionWindowComplaints.com or something similar with a forum design template so that the website could serve as a central hub for consumers to post their bad experiences with this company and organize. In the meantime I have set up the following Gmail account for consumers to organize and are posting this email address with every online review posted to the online review/complaint/rip-off report sites:

ChampionWindowComplaints@gmail.com

If you have had a bad experience with champion windows please email me at ChampionWindowComplaints@gmail.com so that we can connect as there will be strengthen in our numbers.

I'm not really sure what else we could do to protect people from these types of business practices. I think it would be fair the BBB in Kansas City and Cincinnati downgrade this company from the A+ BBB rating that they currently hold.