Now back to calling Chase , I have a Southwest visa card so they have a direct number where you get directly to a higher level agent. I explained about canceling years before I told them possibly have my correct information including the security code my address etc. Eventually the gentleman's explanation was these are "continuity vendors " he explained it in a way that sounded like these type of vendors which would include
BlueMountain.com that have renewals similar to magazines and other items that can have in their agreement an automatic renewal at the end of the year or two are Called "Continuity "vendor/merchants. I stated that they had charged my card before a number of years and I canceled and they gave me back some of the fees and that they couldn't possibly have the correct information because the pin , The address and the security code has changed.
I asked how would Chase know that I had that type of agreement with BlueMountain and Chase just automatically excepts continuity vendors giving them only your credit card number. He said you must of had a contract at one time. I said yes I did about 15 years ago and I canceled it. I ask what is the three digit security code for and he explained that security to prove that the merchant has your card. And again I stated that BlueMountain couldn't possibly have my security code because I haven't given it to them, I didn't order their service again and the address was wrong etc.. He again said you must of had an agreement with them at one time. My answer was so I have to be concerned about every single company I've dealt with that may have a renewal clause even if I cancel their services. Chase Visa is not protecting the consumer at all, Chase is just allowing these vendors to use just a credit card number because it simplifies things for the vendor.
I asked for the fraud department and was told they will tell you the same thing. I said that's fine I'd like to speak to the fraud department. And I patiently waited on hold. I talked with Adrian in the fraud department he confirmed that since these are continuity vendors you must of had an agreement with them. In this case I explained I signed up about 15 years ago and then canceled and how they had continued to bill me but never send me an email confirming billing. But only to send me teasers to send BlueMountain cards to family members etc. The point is that once Thevendor/Merchant of a continuity type has your credit card number it doesn't matter what you do you can cancel you can change your address and not notify them, your security code can change and your expiration date can change. And CHASE VISA will except their charge to your account without having any of that pertinent security type information. God help me I'm wondering if they have other types of vendors with these "special categories" like continuity vendor but with some other name would only have to retain your credit card number and no other information and when they haven't done business with you for years and years they can run a charge through just because they're a "special type of vendor."
Not only that but Adrian again in the fraud department told me that is something you have to handle with the vendor, just like it's my fault if I ever signed up for any item that could have an automatic renewal. That is definitely fraud if they're using my credit card and charging me for something I canceled long ago and then canceled a second time when they started billing again and now this is the third time. He basically told me that well it sometime you had an agreement. My response of course was well of course I did but I canceled it and I've explained you all the details.
It just makes sense that this must happen thousands and thousands of times possibly more where people signed up for something that's an insignificant amount of money, then they cancel the service and at some point start being billed again.
Just because it is the "continuity merchant " who only needs to keep your credit card number and doesn't need to verify any of the other factors. This is asinine there is absolutely no protection for the consumer. If nothing else I would expect they would require the security code, but they don't. So you're left with going back to, in my case
BlueMountain.com and try to get reimbursement again. And after that you're still at risk because they still have your credit card number and CHASE Visa Will honor the cars with no questions asked. The vendor can keep your card Number for a lifetime. Adrian said he understood my concern but the only thing he could do was cancel this years charge of $25 approximately and anything else I would have to contact BlueMountain. I told him Chase is the one that is allowing this to happen there is no excuse other then expediency as to why Chase would have a security code and not require it from every merchant/ vendor. Chase is in essence giving these vendors a license to steal just because you used your credit card one time with them.
The only thing that CHASE VISA will do is, if you ask them is to block the company from ever charging your card again. But that's the end of their attempt to protect you they won't even make notations and/or keep records that a vendor/merchant of the continuity type is having an extreme number of billing issues when the cardmembers say they have already canceled.
5 Updates & Rebuttals
Most consumers think their credit card expiration date is a security feature
#6Author of original report
Sat, May 23, 2015
Most consumers think their credit card expiration dates -- the month and year in which their cards are supposed to be renewed -- are a sacrosant security feature, without which a business can't process a payment.
In fact, big players in the U.S. consumer-sales industry have developed informal agreements with credit-card issuers that allow charges to be made to consumers' credit cards without specifying the expiry month and year. This procedure works even after an individual's card has expired and been re-issued with a new expiration date.
Most surprisingly, this end run around expiration dates is little known by most businesses. The procedure is so new it isn't written down anywhere in credit-card regulations. The process exists only as an understanding between card issuers and a few companies that know how the system works.
You completely miss the point
#6Author of original report
Fri, May 22, 2015
You completely missed the point possibly on purpose. It wasn't 15 years I have the service for a long time and enjoyed it but I canceled it. The terms of the agreement are not such that the vendor can app will charge a party years later just because they have the credit card number on file. That is fraud in every state of the union, but it wouldn't be possible if the bank realizing that there is a break in time required the same information that they require when any other vendor creates a charge. Let's say you're elderly grandmother agrees to a subscription and prior to the renewal any other vendor creates a charge. Let's say you're elderly grandmother agrees to a subscription and prior to the renewal . Period she cancels under terms of the contract. There is absolutely no contract existing any longer with that vendor. The unscrupulous vendor uses the continuity relationship to create charges without any contract whatsoever. And the only way they're able to accomplish this is because the bank doesn't require any information other than the credit card number. The bank can clearly see that there was no contract continuing because there were no charges. Furthermore the bank has thousands of complaint about this continuity loophole. Because they get the calls each time the unscrupulous vendor creates a charge for fraudulent charge and the clients ask for it to be removed. The contract is an agreement between theparties once it is canceled it is no longer valid. You fail to understand that. And by the way no way the whole whatever bank you work for automatically put charges on their accounts that they had an authorized but the continuity vendor set in some phony charges to their account. And even worse weather than you didn't happen to notice it on their statement. Go back to your bank job and stop complaining about something that you don't understand which is contract law. There must be a meeting of the minds and once the contract is resend it under normal provisions of the contract it is no longer valid. And when the bank realizes that the vendor continues to do this over and over and over again they have a responsibility to keep records and to not allow the continuity vendor to abuse the continuity relationship.
Tyg
Pahrump,Nevada,
USA
Still on YOU!!!
#6General Comment
Fri, May 22, 2015
How long are YOU going to sit there and WHINE about it? The reality is that over a period of time YOU never addressed the issue. YOU are partially right in the fact that NO ONE could possibly remember EVERY business they have dealt with in the past ten years. THAT is WHY you need to review your statements. had you done this YOU would have seen for yourself that YOU had been being charged all those years. YOU have a responsibility and YOU are shirking it in favor of placing ALL of the blame on the credit card company. The REALITY is that YOU FAILED to protect yourself. YOU have ASSUMED that the card company is going to back YOU and protect YOU 100% of the time. The truth is that IF they didnt do "continuity" payments people like yourself would WHINE that its inconsiderate of the card company to require YOU to enter in this information EVERY YEAR. See the problem?? IF they DONT allow continuity payment request, self entitled and spoiled consumers like yourself will do nothing but whine. But if they do allow it, yet again people like yourself will whine about it. So no matter WHAT they do people like yourself WILL NOT be happy. Accept YOUR PART in all of it and move on. YOU have NOT been ripped off. Maybe take responsibility for YOUR part of all of this INSTEAD of placing ALL of the blame on the company.
you apparently didn't read completely it wasn't 15 years that they had been billing me
#6Author of original report
Thu, May 21, 2015
my point is that you can sign up for something 15 years ago, my point is that you can sign up for something 15 years ago and the continuity vendor can just send a charge in this case into Chase Visa. Although this wasn't A legitimate transaction requested by you and everything has changed on your credit card it goes through again without any approval from you. And no current information for the card such as address security code or expiration without any approval from you. And no current information for the card such as address security code or expiration date and it's automatically excepted by Chase Visa because it's a continuity vendor. Now the consumerwould think that initially this was just a mistake on the part of the vendor but it isn't in most cases it is a scam. I have numerous articles from national investigative sources just one being Fox news where a detailed investigation was done and this continuity relationship was the main problyou apparently didn't read completely it wasn't 15 years that they had been billing. I had called and canceled and my account was turned off, but I also removed information and changed expiration datesafter I noticed that they had started billing again.
So now this would be the third time for BlueMountain.com To use my card number only, because remember I changed all the information so it wasn't correct but the charge was still approved. It is either expedient, profitable or laziness that they automatically except The continuity vendors charges when their computers can certainly see that the first time you paid could've been 15 years ago, that you had a very long period of time where the vendor was not charging you so you obviously had canceled. Now automatically except charge without any of the pertinent information other than the credit card number is not responsible at all.
Charge without any of the pertinent information other than the credit card number is not responsible at all. Nobody could possibly remember all the vendors that they had dealt with over let's say a ten-year span of time. Especially since they knew they had canceled these various vendors. At the point of contact you usually have notations and/or email reflecting the fact that you would cancel service what you don't realize is that you need to keep this forever because of the co at the point of contact you usually have notations and/or email reflecting the fact that you would cancel service what you don't realize is that you need to keep this forever continuity relationship with CHASE VISA. And CHASE VISA and probably the other banks as you had mentioned have no interest in changing their policy when they can clearly tell that certain vendors have an enormous amount of complaints of this type. It's a simple computer program entry to track vendor abuses. In this case if you Google the vendor BlueMountain.com you will find thousands of people that have had issues where BlueMountain had clearly taken advantage of the relationship. I shouldn't have to check my statement every month with the specific reason of looking for a fraudulent vendor meaning someone that I had given my credit card to and canceled many years ago because many times the name on the chart statement is nothing like the vendor you did business with.
which bank do you work for?
Robert
Irvine,California,
USA
Responsibility
#6Consumer Comment
Thu, May 21, 2015
This is fairly standard practice with banks and vendors. The initial security check is done at the beginning. But after that, as per the terms you agreed to, they will continually charge you. As for Chase not "protecting" you. Fraud prevention is a two way street.
You complain that they were not protecting you from a "continutity" vendor. Well answer this, if the vendor continually charges you and you FAIL to report it for 15 years..how is Chase supposed to know that it is a fradulent charge?
Of course the answer is that they(or any other bank) can't know. This is why it is YOUR responsibility to monitor your accounts every month and immediatly report the fraudulent charges. How do you monitor them? Simple, review your monthly statement and if you notice any charges that you did not make report it. If you come up with the "excuse" that you just don't have time to do this or you use the card too much to notice it then that is on you.
You may have a valid excuse if it took you one or two times to notice it, but after 15 years then that is 100% on you and you should be thankful if you get any money back.