Complaint Review: Christian Brothers Plumbing And Air Conditioning

Leonardo,

Most people think I'm wrong because they take a quick read of the post and think that I'm upset because I overpaid.

Although I'm not happy about the price Christian Brothers charged that is not the reason for my dispute.

Please listen closely (and everyone else who wants to respond to this please read this closely as it is the reason for my dispute). I AM DISPUTING THE CHARGES BECAUSE CHRISTIAN BROTHERS LIED TO ME REGARDING THE REASON FOR THE CHARGES. That's it, plain and simple. If you have to lie to me in order to get me to enter into a contract with you and I find out about it, I'm not going to just let it go.

Leonardo, you think that garbage disposal prices really have gone up to the degree that Christian Brothers states? And you tell ME to get real!

You also talk about getting Home Depot back if the disposal started to leak. I'm sure that I could easily get Christian Brothers back! Sure, just pay them $600/hour and I'm sure they'll be happy to come over.

Next time read the facts before responding to a post.

James! Do you see that most people here see you as totaly wrong!

I agree. You are wrong. You were quoted a price, plain and simple, before the start of work. You agreed on the price. Forget about his answer as to the price of the disposal went up.

THe truth may be it did go up and all construction materials have.

Dave's points on the cost of doing business are right on point.

If you make an oral agreement to contract work then you must abide by that. Not shop around after your problem was solved.

Here is a contractor who accepts cc cards for his customers conveinence, pays the % fees and monthly bank fee's just to have his profit taken back. Thats exactly what your card co took, the business profit. If you want to hire a contractor who only wants to work for wages, then next time hire home depot.

Try getting the HD contractor back if the unit starts to leak. Noway will you ever hear from them. Try and get HD to your house at 3am because of a burst pipe, noway again!

Oh and just for the record, a burst pipe might cost you 600 to fix. What will you do? Go to home depot and see the pipe and fitting only cost 8 bucks? Oh thats right, you'll just call the cc company and say you were ripped off!!

Get real James!!

James! Do you see that most people here see you as totaly wrong!

I agree. You are wrong. You were quoted a price, plain and simple, before the start of work. You agreed on the price. Forget about his answer as to the price of the disposal went up.

THe truth may be it did go up and all construction materials have.

Dave's points on the cost of doing business are right on point.

If you make an oral agreement to contract work then you must abide by that. Not shop around after your problem was solved.

Here is a contractor who accepts cc cards for his customers conveinence, pays the % fees and monthly bank fee's just to have his profit taken back. Thats exactly what your card co took, the business profit. If you want to hire a contractor who only wants to work for wages, then next time hire home depot.

Try getting the HD contractor back if the unit starts to leak. Noway will you ever hear from them. Try and get HD to your house at 3am because of a burst pipe, noway again!

Oh and just for the record, a burst pipe might cost you 600 to fix. What will you do? Go to home depot and see the pipe and fitting only cost 8 bucks? Oh thats right, you'll just call the cc company and say you were ripped off!!

Get real James!!

James! Do you see that most people here see you as totaly wrong!

I agree. You are wrong. You were quoted a price, plain and simple, before the start of work. You agreed on the price. Forget about his answer as to the price of the disposal went up.

THe truth may be it did go up and all construction materials have.

Dave's points on the cost of doing business are right on point.

If you make an oral agreement to contract work then you must abide by that. Not shop around after your problem was solved.

Here is a contractor who accepts cc cards for his customers conveinence, pays the % fees and monthly bank fee's just to have his profit taken back. Thats exactly what your card co took, the business profit. If you want to hire a contractor who only wants to work for wages, then next time hire home depot.

Try getting the HD contractor back if the unit starts to leak. Noway will you ever hear from them. Try and get HD to your house at 3am because of a burst pipe, noway again!

Oh and just for the record, a burst pipe might cost you 600 to fix. What will you do? Go to home depot and see the pipe and fitting only cost 8 bucks? Oh thats right, you'll just call the cc company and say you were ripped off!!

Get real James!!

James! Do you see that most people here see you as totaly wrong!

I agree. You are wrong. You were quoted a price, plain and simple, before the start of work. You agreed on the price. Forget about his answer as to the price of the disposal went up.

THe truth may be it did go up and all construction materials have.

Dave's points on the cost of doing business are right on point.

If you make an oral agreement to contract work then you must abide by that. Not shop around after your problem was solved.

Here is a contractor who accepts cc cards for his customers conveinence, pays the % fees and monthly bank fee's just to have his profit taken back. Thats exactly what your card co took, the business profit. If you want to hire a contractor who only wants to work for wages, then next time hire home depot.

Try getting the HD contractor back if the unit starts to leak. Noway will you ever hear from them. Try and get HD to your house at 3am because of a burst pipe, noway again!

Oh and just for the record, a burst pipe might cost you 600 to fix. What will you do? Go to home depot and see the pipe and fitting only cost 8 bucks? Oh thats right, you'll just call the cc company and say you were ripped off!!

Get real James!!

"Both this homeowner and the headgasket guy feel its ok to renege on a agreement. By your attack on the woman who attempted in good faith to employ that grease monkey shows you side with him in his attept to force a higher payment. And frankly this harping on her for not shopping around is a classic red herring. I don't care if you feel it should have been 800, 1800 or 8000, he offered a price and now should honor it just like this homeowner should honor what he agreed to. You, robbie, seem to have an inferiority problem when it comes to adult commitments and honoring what you say. Your the reason I no longer take my vehicle to grease monkeys like yourself. The customer is always wrong and you patronize anyone who questions your self proclaimed genius with automobiles."

Wonderful. And yet, in all of this blather, you failed to post ANY quote by me defending the shop owner you claim I did. This is because it NEVER happened. I also did not attack that woman. Again, post the EXACT quote. Your spinning is worse than that of your West Coast Rival. You are truly pathetic Pabbie. At least HE makes a point, and provides quotes to back them up.

I always commit to a price I give my customers. This is because my price is accurate. I give NO prices over the phone for this reason. I give NO prices without looking the job and parts up on the computer. Nice try though.

Try getting some help with the reading comprehension. It will truly benefit you.

Both this homeowner and the headgasket guy feel its ok to renege on a agreement. By your attack on the woman who attempted in good faith to employ that grease monkey shows you side with him in his attept to force a higher payment. And frankly this harping on her for not shopping around is a classic red herring. I don't care if you feel it should have been 800, 1800 or 8000, he offered a price and now should honor it just like this homeowner should honor what he agreed to. You, robbie, seem to have an inferiority problem when it comes to adult commitments and honoring what you say. Your the reason I no longer take my vehicle to grease monkeys like yourself. The customer is always wrong and you patronize anyone who questions your self proclaimed genius with automobiles.

"My only gripe is that many contractors don't live by the same standards as evidenced by my arguments with Robert from Jacksonville ( hes all over these boards) who defended a auto mechanic who quoted 400 for a headgasket job but then decided after starting the job, he wanted double that from the car owner. Robbie thought it was just fine to leave the car dissasembled and locked away in a garage untill the car owner relented to the revised price."

Okay Pabbie, where EXACTLY, show the EXACT QUOTE, did I ever defend that shop owner? I stated a FACT...if everyone else charges one price, and one guy is half that price, guess who is the liar? A whole bunch of businesses do it because everyone wants CHEAP. I compete against these Jabronies, and do it pretty well...by being 100% honest with my customers.

Post the EXACT statement where I have ever defended someone for screwing a customer over. I just don't feel sorry for people who want to believe they can get a $1000 job done for $500. Need brakes? One place advertises a $78/4 wheel brake job. Riiiiight. Never going to happen. Every other shop in town will tell you it costs double that to do all four on any typical car. But the shop that says $78 is swamped. They get no repeat business, and they don't care. They actually get about $600 from each and every $78 advertised brake job.

I don't feel sorry for those people either, and they come BACK to my shop begging me to fix what the CHEAP guys just did. Sure...give those scumbags $600, and want me to make everything right. Give me the $600, and we'll talk. There's the door.

Ben used his business as an example of my evil wrong thinking. He used medical testing as his example, and I must be stupid for not knowing what something should cost. Just as I explained to him, REPEATEDLY, if I don't know what something is worth, I call around and ask the experts. If one guy is double the average, and one guy is half as much, I am smart enough to know those two are the wrong ones to use. This is not rocket science, it's COMMON SENSE.

Something more than a few people are sorely lacking in.

Now Pabbie, put up or shut up. Post the EXACT quote that says I think what that shop owner did was just fine. Being inside the Beltway has affected you. The Spin stops here.

The last two people to respond missed the most important point.

If I agreed to the price without questioning it and, later on, discovered that I could have gotten the work done at a lower price I wouldn't have a leg to stand on.

In this case, however, the plumber LIED to me. As soon as he gave me the quote I thought it was very high and ASKED HIM WHY THE PRICE WAS SO HIGH.

He replied that, "THE PRICE OF DISPOSALS HAD GONE UP". That is a LIE and it had EVERYTHING to do with why I agreed to the price. If the plumber was, in fact, telling me the truth this repair would have cost a similar amount regardless of who did the work. That is the reason AND THE ONLY REASON that I authorized the repair.

If the plumber told the truth and said that the high price was due to either extreme labor costs or an extreme mark up on the disposal I would NOT have authorized the repair.

This is not an issue of price as much as it is an issue of dishonesty. I said it in my first post and I'll repeat it here. IF YOU LIE TO SOMEONE AND DECEIVE HIM INTO ENTERING A CONTRACT WITH YOU THE CONTRACT IS NOT ENFORCEABLE.

Its too bad if after the fact you decide it was overpriced. If you agreed to buy a house and decided a month later it was 50 k to much, its too bad. You agreed to that selling price.

My only gripe is that many contractors don't live by the same standards as evidenced by my arguments with Robert from Jacksonville ( hes all over these boards) who defended a auto mechanic who quoted 400 for a headgasket job but then decided after starting the job, he wanted double that from the car owner. Robbie thought it was just fine to leave the car dissasembled and locked away in a garage untill the car owner relented to the revised price.

So I see it from both sides on these boards when it comes to not wanting to honor what they've commited to.

Its too bad if after the fact you decide it was overpriced. If you agreed to buy a house and decided a month later it was 50 k to much, its too bad. You agreed to that selling price.

My only gripe is that many contractors don't live by the same standards as evidenced by my arguments with Robert from Jacksonville ( hes all over these boards) who defended a auto mechanic who quoted 400 for a headgasket job but then decided after starting the job, he wanted double that from the car owner. Robbie thought it was just fine to leave the car dissasembled and locked away in a garage untill the car owner relented to the revised price.

So I see it from both sides on these boards when it comes to not wanting to honor what they've commited to.

Its too bad if after the fact you decide it was overpriced. If you agreed to buy a house and decided a month later it was 50 k to much, its too bad. You agreed to that selling price.

My only gripe is that many contractors don't live by the same standards as evidenced by my arguments with Robert from Jacksonville ( hes all over these boards) who defended a auto mechanic who quoted 400 for a headgasket job but then decided after starting the job, he wanted double that from the car owner. Robbie thought it was just fine to leave the car dissasembled and locked away in a garage untill the car owner relented to the revised price.

So I see it from both sides on these boards when it comes to not wanting to honor what they've commited to.

It doesnt matter if he charges $10.00 per hour or $500.00 per hour. He quoted you a price & YOU agreed to it. Then after the work has been performed you want to change the deal.

If you thought the proce was too high, you should have spoken up & said NO. The Bottom line is, you had a CONTRACT/AGREEMENT for work to be done at a given price. After completion, you decided own your own to change the deal. SORRY, NOT ALLOWED !!!!

You forgot to mention one additional mistake I made. I assumed (there's that word again) that your plumber was telling the truth when he gave me the reason for the high price. He specifically stated that the reason for the high price was because "the price of disposals had gone up". If I get tricked into entering a contract based on deception by your employee I would hardly call that contract enforceable.

How many people do you think believe your story about how the poor plumber has to mark his $70 disposal up to the point where you're charging over $500 for 45 minutes of work? In fact, lets talk specifically about the points you made.

1. Even if your plumber DID have to drive to Home Depot to pick it up how much of that "expensive" gas would he use? There's a Home Depot less than 5 miles from the property. Assuming your van gets 10mpg your plumber would have used a whopping $3 of that "expensive" gas.

2. Regarding the price of disposals and the plumbers right to a "mark up" his prices. Let's see if I have this straight. Your plumber buys a disposal for $70 (or less). Keep in mind that Home Depot sells the identical disposal for $70 AND MAKES MONEY ON IT. In fact, why don't you tell us exactly how much you pay for your disposals. $30? $40? At any rate, you feel you have to mark it up how much? To $200? $300? More??? And why do you have to mark it up that much? To cover the cost of having the thing sit in the back of your van? I don't think the people who read this are going to buy that logic Dave. Home depot has to pay the utilities, rent, etc. on a huge store to carry all their plumbing supplies. Somehow they manage to pay all that overhead AND keep those pesky inventory costs under control. By the way, the burger I had for lunch cost $1.50. Your bill was $351 MORE than your competitor (which works out to 234% MORE). Again, do you think that comparison is convincing the readers of your post that your business practices are ethical.

I'd like to make a few points regarding the time it took to install the disposal. Your guy was at the house for LESS THAN 45 MINUTES. My tenant was paying very close attention to the time because she was taking time off from work to be there. How much of that was installation time. Maybe something like .... 20 minutes (like I said before). At any rate we KNOW it was less than 45 minutes. And I am (ha ha) one of the 1% of homeowners who maintains the property. In fact, the house is only 4 (ha ha) years old so the plumbing is in excellent (ha ha) condition. Regardless of any undue hardship your plumber may have undergone to install the disposal, the fact remains that the work was completed within 45 minutes. The fact also remains that you charged over $500 for something that Home Depot would have done for $150. Blaming the price difference on the fact that you had to store the disposal on your truck until it was required for a job isn't a very persuasive argument.

And of course the fact remains that your plumber LIED. You and I both know that the price of this repair WAS NOT due to disposal prices going up. It was either due to exhorbitant and unnecessary mark ups or exhorbitant labor rates. Either way, Dave, you're ripping people off and your employees are lying in order to do it.

I'm sure we'll be hearing from you again. In your next correspondence why don't you share with all of us the price you paid for the disposal, how much you marked it up (for letting it ride in the back of your van), and how much you charged for the 45 minutes of labor it took to install it. That way the facts will be out on the table for all to see.

Open letter to James and anyone else who may be contracting ANYONE:

First we'll review the additional mistakes James made. He "thought" most plumbers had the same policies. Remember what ASSUME (make an A** out of U and ME) really means. Never assume. We assumed again as it related to disposal prices. Enough said. When you agree to a price provided to you before any committment is made, you have entered into a contract, an enforceable one most likely. Do not enter into contracts blindly or because you are in a hurry or for convienence sake. If you do, please do not complain about it later, other than to yourself in the mirror. There is no one else to blame for giving your authorization for the work. Frankly, if the plumber took your statement below and showed it to the credit card company, they would have no choice but to honor the contract. You clearly state they gave you the price up front and you authorized it????

Now let's review the subsequent facts. Good ole Home Depit has the same disposal for $69.99. Surely you didn't expect the plumber to go purchase it (using his gas at todays prices?), store it in his vehicle or shop for an indefinite period of time as to be ready and available when you needed it (can you say year end inventory taxes?), then transport it to the jobsite for free? He is due his markup. And his markup is not for you or I to dispute. Unless of course you have an intimate knowledge of his direct costs and administrative expnses, including his profit margin. He may mark it up whatever he pleases. You do realize the burger you had for lunch today was probably marked up about 400 to 500%. Someone over the phone said they could hook up the disposal in 20 minutes. Really? Without seeing it? Do you have an electrical outlet under the sink whereby it can just be plugged in, or will it have to be hard wired, removing the existing cord, shutting off the breaker, etc, etc? Is it the exact same model of disposal so that the drainage piping will match EXACTLY, or will the piping have to be re-aligned or possibly even re-plumbed altogther? Is the piping under the sink even in decent enough shape to withstand disconnecting and reconneting the lines or will it have to be replaced as well? Let's assume (haha) that your are in the 1% of apartment owners who actually maintain your systems and none of the above is true. No one should believe it anyway becuase the plumber has been told otherwise far too often. Moving on. An $80.00 installation fee may very well be an acceptable hourly rate for a Home Depot sub-contractor. That doesn't necessarily apply to the plumber you HIRED. On to the hard learned lessons. James, you have the first one correct. If you can't get a free estimate, call someone else. Part two of that is to get multiple estimates. If you choose not to for convienence sake remember, YOU made the choice. Don't be naive regarding "studying" the jobsite. When was the last time your mechanic quoted you a price over the phone for that "ticking" noise? Or your doctor told you his diagnosis and costs of treatment when you called to schedule your appointment? Granted that these examples may be a little on the ridiculous side, but lets focus on the point. Most of the time a consumer becomes even less happy when the price goes up after the plumber arrives due to additional, "unforseen" problems. Good point on paying with a credit card as well. They will stick up for you. However, with a binding agreement, which includes your pre-authorization for work, even the crdeit card company will have to honor it if the contractor decides to pursue it.

Not trying to bash you James, just pointing out your culpability in this mess, and really trying to--- Prevent others from getting ripped off!