Complaint Review: CLfree Water Systems Chlorine Free USA Phil Francisco William Gilles

My name is Andrew and I am a CL Free Dealer in California. (Santa Barbara Pool Service) When I installed my first CL Free system I experienced some similar symptoms as described by this customer. It takes some time to get the copper levels up, I agree. One thing I have learned that can be done is to add some copper initially just to get the copper level up.

I also had some slime and odor issues but in my case I followed every single instruction from Phil at CL Free. I learned that in many of the applications I have installed that the Phosphate issue is real. It is easily resolved. I also had to adjust the Alkalinity several times and changing from a pleated filter to a DE filter helped.

I now have several systems up and running and none of them have slime, odor or clarity issues. All of my CL Free clients are thrilled with their systems.

If anyone comes at this technology with a doubters mentality they can find stumbling blocks without much effort and quit fairly easily as in this guy's case.

It's unrealistic to expect a refund when you have not followed all instructions to the letter and allowed and followed through with a full, step by step resolution plan with all due diligence. 

There was no need for this guy to go through the entire experience he described. He even admits at the end he needed to be reminded of the Phosphate issue. It is clearly described in the start-up parameters of the system.  Like any science the details must be set correctly if the result is to be accomplished. These systems are not "sold" with a statement that you can just plug them in and walk away with nothing else required. 

You need to follow the instructions. Once the water chemistry is set in place correctly as instructed, the systems work perfectly. Then you need to monitor and keep the alkalinity correct etc. It's not as simple as chlorine but it becomes even more simple once the water chemistry is fully dialed in. Phil will help you get there. He can be trusted and so can the CL Free system. 

There was a time when I had a disdain towards ionizers or natural sanitizers like ozone and UV. Yet now I represent one, Yes the very one mentioned in this negative report. In the report I noticed the consumer had a pool service adjust chemistry on their visit right after install . This is important info. I operated as a professional service and an equipment install and repair tech. For years, and once in a while I would have a customer install something to this affect. My boss at the time took great resentment to customers making a decision like this without consulting and having his permission.

Then he would only check the chems associated with the existing pools previous personality. That was a mistake simply because the pool had a new persona. One that demanded the details to do it's job. Much like a rockstar who refuses to perform without his filet mignon and lobster with his dom perignon pairing. point is my boss knew better, I asked why a lot and he would say because. He knew ahead of time the problems our customer would have so he taught her and sat back and watched the show while her panicked mania took over and ultimately led to the destruction of an otherwise awesome swimming experience.

Well I know longer work for my old boss for obvious reasons. Having my own company all these years I work to do just about everything opposite of my old friend. Well,it works. First I )needed education which is important. there is the answer. I learned about chloramines. These are the nasty by products of used up Chlorine. I learned about cyanauric acid. This is used in many Chlorine powders and tabs otherwise known as Cya.

This also is a nasty by product of chemical use, which never evaporates as pool water does yet builds up to tremendous levels and actually works to prohibit effectiveness of Chlorine at levels above 50ppm(information from the National swimming pool foundation). One published study recently found high levels of Cya to be associated with the abnormal prescence of fecal matter to remain present in the water.

Boy, I was glad to learn these thing! Natural systems are rockstars. And being presented as such, it's natural for these systems to be expected to meet or exceed expectations. All they ask is to do their thing in a natural enviroment. makes sense. Put a natural system into a chemical system and there are adverse reactions. It's called Orp or Oxygen reduction potenetial. All the previous chemical components I mentioned and several I have not affect this important level negatively prohibiting performance for alternative systems.

In fact many county health departments across the nation check for this level. This is a read of oxygens effectiveness in the waters environment. If you put a glass over a burning flame what happens? It smothers out,right? Same with this system. All these contaminants crowd out to offer an Inhospitable introduction into their society. Understandable seeing as how it's been so good for them for so long.

your alternative Sanitizer systems install, at least have a qualified professional test all aspects of the existing water. If Chlorine was used before I would start fresh anyway. I was trained to hate these alternative methods because they would steal my job. In fact the opposite is true. These have allowed for me to offer to customers to only need me half the time for an increase in their residual income.

My guys are more than Happy to have a small raise and work more effectively with outstanding results. Chlorine is an oxidizer. Units like Clfree inject the pool with oxygen naturally. muriatic acid is a reducer for Ph levels. If the Ph rises the Chlorine will become less effective. Good pool techs always check but can only balance when they are there once a week.

Clfree "Ultra" for instance checks the Ph every 5 min. And automatically injects a short burst of Co2 Which adjusts the water through a natural process.

I hope this clears home the picture. I have worked with many device's and I love them. I personally had to battle illness onset from chemicals. I saw a dear friend leave behind his successful business for the same reason. Just because the pool is being kept clear with Chlorine does not all measure it to be safe. The World Health Organization has all the research which I now respect greatly and hope any who read this will also. These are people much more intelligent than I am conducting studies on living tissue.

I had to give up working the way I was because of exposure. Fatigue put me down for Months at a time. Fortunately I do not quit. Hired some help and know I am privileged to fight the war against chemicals by educating my dear customers. true I recieved heavy exposure for nonstop durations. But I'm in my 30'S and so is my friend that that Also became ill. I wish sir I could come by your place and give your clfree or any type Sanitizer a proper start and contribute to changing the viewpoint of these chems.

I have been using a CL Free system in New Orleans for about 2 years.  It is wonderful.  I've used cholrine, salt etc.  This is the easiest.  I have a 40,000 gal pool.  It is not easy to keep right.  In two years, it has gotten away from me 2 times., ie turned green.  A little shock and it was right. 

I keep up the chemisty, ph, calcium, alkalinity, copper.  I have a ph controller using acid.  I run the cl- system pretty much flat out, 8 on the copper scale.  I use a liquid shock from Lowes', about a gal every 2 to 3 weeks.

The trick I found was to keep the circulation up.  I have a cartrigde filter that was "too small".  I got a Cyclone pre filter from Aqua Man in AZ.  I used to have to clean the filter twice a week.  Now I do it every 2 or 3 weeks.

So, keep the chemistry right,  keep the flow up in the pool, and the system runs fine.

I have had a cl free system for my pool for 3 years and love it.  Whenever I needed support they were always extremely helpful.  I have had to use about 10 gallons of chlorine over time due to me letting the PH getting out of wack which nocks the ability of the system to keep the pool clean.  The water is crystal clear and no chlorine.  Just like any system used to keep a pool clean you have to care for it and keep things dialed in.  I plan on using this system forever.  Its worth every penny.  I don't want to swim in chlorine or the residual from the chlorine (which is much worse then the chlorine itself).  I feel fortunate there is a product such as CL Free.  Love it.

There is ONE really important piece of information that is being left out from ALL the posts on all the forums about chlorine. Chlorine is essentially, a PESTICIDE. I had been using chlorine for years in our pool, until my doctor and urologist said stop swimming in chlorine. It has been linked to bladder cancer, and, in the future, who knows what else. So health comes first, in my opinion. Even if these newer technologies aren't perfect yet, and yes, they all need a little chlorine too occasionally, we need to support the research and help them out. We use the copper titanium system purchased from CL Free USA. Yes, there are a few issues to deal with, but, it works!!!!! Stop pushing the chlorine, already people!!!

I'm an old school swimming pool contractor in Santa Barbara, CA. We are a CL-Free dealer and have several units in service and I'm ordering another unit today which is how I found this Rip Off Report.

These units are not as easy as chlorine. They require a sophisticated foundational approach. The slime mentioned above should have been eliminated using an Oxygen shock. The start-up procedures need to be followed to a tee and if they are not, there will be symptoms that need to be dealt with before the pool get in the groove so to speak.

The sanitation coming from the CL-Free is both scientifically sound and effective. It does work and the copper ionization works also. The combination delivers a chlorine free pool environment as presented.

When I read the Rip Off report above I get a sense that this individual took an impatient approach that Ripped him off from experiencing the successful use of the CL-Free system. I does take a little fooling around with to get it up & running. I our case we had to get the Alkalinity just right and we did in fact have phosphate issues to deal with. The phosphate issue is real and needs to be addressed if you have it.

Apple computer started in a garage. This is America folks! Good for Phil if he can present a well though out system that is a viable alternative to the horrible chemical downside of chlorine. I have had warranty parts sent the next day. I have had phone support beyond that of any company I've ever interacted with. I have had a zero fail rate on the pools we put to CL-Free. I am a 100% advocate of Phil and CL-Free.

Phil offers territories. CL-Free expects their dealers to sell units. My territory has not been compromised but I would not be surprised if I did not sell units for it to be given to another candidate. Bottom line is sales.

I see no reason for anyone who was a car dealer to be labeled. CAr dealers work hard and sell gear. That is a respectable trade. Let's get real when it comes to CL-Free. It works for those who take the time to get it working. Those in a rush, those confused, those who think CL-Free has a link to the Kennedy shooting will not have the success that is possible following their dealer's lead or Phil Fransisco.

I am a luxury pool builder. I use the CLFree system on many of the high end pools that I build. we have had nothing but great success. they save money for our customers. they eliminate the problems with salt chlorinators. we have had great support from Phil. they work exactly as stated by the company. we find that we have to educate our customers on the operation of these systems. this is not a plug and play system. the customer who filed this complaint obiously did not educate himself on how this system works.. they definitely work extremely well. this is not a company deserving of any bad press.

I am also from N.Y.

I just wanted to write this letter to let you know how pleased my family and I are with the CL Free Water System.  I cant believe how easy our pool was to take care of this summer.  All of the warnings we got from our friends and family who own pools, made us nervous that maintaining a pool was going to be just another chore in our hectic lifestyle.  Thanks to the CL Free Water System, our pool was so easy to maintain that it almost made me feel as though I wasnt doing enough.   And it gave me the peace of mind to sit back, relax and enjoy our summer fun.

When we decided to install our in-ground pool, we were leaning towards installing a salt water generator, which are very popular today.  We were excited at the fact that we wouldnt have to use chlorine in our pool, however, after some research we discovered that salt generators actually convert salt into chlorine by electrically charging the salt ions, therefore we would still have a chlorine pool.  And as many of us are aware, chlorine is a powerful chemical which studies have shown can cause serious health problems in adults, as well as children.  There was no way we wanted to subject ourselves, our son or our friends to such a dangerous substance, and thats when we found you and your company.  Phil spent countless hours with my husband and me on the phone, assuring us of your product and sharing your endless knowledge.  We received the system within days of ordering it and my husband who installed it, had it up and running in no time.  And more important, it cost the same as a salt water generator and did not require us to purchase twenty five pounds of salt weekly or tons of chlorine tablets.

Phil, I want to add a sincere thank you, because there wasnt one time that you didnt pick up your phone to answer one of my many questions or concerns.  It was as though I was looking for something to go wrong and just never found it.   Your partner Nick was also very helpful and just as willing and able to answer any and all of my questions.  I hope that you post this letter on your website if you can, because I want everyone to know what a great product you sell.  My pool water is so clean and clear, some of our friends find it hard to believe that it is chlorine free, however as soon as they swim in it, they feel the difference from their eyes not burning to their skin not smelling like chlorine.  And most important we feel good knowing that anyone swimming in our pool, including ourselves is free from the dangers of chlorine related health problems.

Did this person have a system to control the PH? I live in the nidwest and I am looking to purchase this system. Can I please get some input on these guys. I have saved a long time to get my children the best pool and system.I cant afford to watse my money on any scams. PLEASE HELP!!!!!!!! 

We do not have nor have we ever had a Dealer in Fort Lauderdale FL.

We did have a Dealer in Boca Raton FL (35 miles north) who we had to terminate for cause. The Dealer did not have any sales representation and only sold two systems in 14 months. One of the systems they installed was on their own home which left us with one retail sale in all that time. In an area with over 80,000 people this was unacceptable and a bad business practice.

It is quite unfortunate that a Company which has been in business for over 11 years and has over 200+ Dealers in the U.S. and abroad, has to respond to unsubstantiated anonymous statements like this.

CL Free Water Systems has a perfect BBB with an A+ rating. We have never had a complaint or even a dispute.

Go to www.chlorinefreeusa.com and click on our BBB report found on the home page on the lower left side.

The report will also show the corporate office address and location.

It is ridiculous to say that we make our systems out of a garage. Just more nonsense. Our corporate office is located in Fountain Hills AZ and we have two Factory's that produce our systems.

Some copper ionizer systems do require you to use chlorine. Our does NOT. We have our own oxidation process that eliminates the need for chlorine or any other type of oxidizer. If you add chlorine to copper, you can get copper chloride stains.

This is what makes us different.

In our 11 years in business we have NEVER had a Dealer ask for a refund.

We try our hardest to be completely honest and straight forward in our dealing with the public and our Dealers which is why we personally think that this entire report may be made up from a competitor.

P.S.

Phil Francisco retired from the automobile business years ago as the Director of Finance for one of the largest Dealers in the Country.

I am a former dealer with Cl Free Usa and the reason it is former is due to Phil Francisco's inability to tell the truth.  I am one of 3 different individuals that was promised exclusive territory in the same area for making a purchase with them.  It is pretty hard to be exclusive when your own factory representative sells 2 other dealerships in your protected area.

Not only that, but I then learn that both Phil Francisco and the so called factory are run out of their houses.  The Cl Free product is built in their garage and it looks like it, which probably explains why they dont work very well.  For a chlorine free product, they will instruct you to add chlorine to the pool to help fix problems, which actually stains the pool.

The money back policy is a joke as well.  After learning about the other 2 dealers placed in my exclusive area, I asked for my money back as it was within the 30 day time period.  Well, this cause Phil to backpedal and ultimately refuse to refund the product purchase.  After doing a little background investigating, I have come to learn that Phil was fired from selling cars.  Go figure.  So, Mr. Gilles, no your customer in New York is not a liar, your main Distributor, however, is. 

In this ROR, the complainant claims the copper ionization process and system is a ripoff.  Here' reality - sometimes it works - more often it doesn't.  Unfortunately, success depends largely on your pool.

How big is it?  Can it keep itself reasonably clean?  Does it circulate well?  What type of filter?  Does the water come in contact with plants or animals?  Is it next to a golf course?  What type of pool surface?  What is the quality of the source water?  Etc., etc., etc., ......

These are all valid questions that can influence the success of the process regardless of the manufacturer.  Unfortunately, when your pool is green and tech support asks you about the specific chemistry of your source water, you probably won't have an meaningful answer to that question. 

The truth is there simply are too many possible questions and only 30 days to get them answered.  It's unrealistic to think that is probable or even possible. 

So, the question is not "Does it work?"  The question is "Does it work on YOUR pool?"  That's a different animal altogether.  Interestingly, over 3 years, the number of failures overwhelms the number of successes.

Recommendation - get a 1 to 3 year money-back guarantee or be happy with a pricey experiment.  Oh, by the way, did we discuss the staining problem?

Phil and Bill both did a great job presenting me with the CL Free system's capabilities and providing instruction to equip me to use the system successfully.  I personally installed my system in April of 2008.  My system had a hardware problem which we discovered within the first 3 days of operation.  Bill shipped a replacement control unit overnight which solved the problem.  I have called these guys (I'm in the South, Phil is East Coast, Bill is out West) in the evening at 7 and on Saturday's and they have been available to talk every time.  This was really important to me when I first started my system as I monitored my water chemistry.  They helped me through every step and provided excellent customer support!

With 2 seasons under my belt I am completely satisfied with the amazing ease of maintenance and the total annihilation of algae in the heat of the Deep South!!!  When I used an automatic chlorinator, algae blooms would spring up and often take over my pool before I could gain control.  This type of problem would cost about $60 in additional chemicals for my 25k gallon pool, hundreds of gallons of water, and hours upon hours of cleaning time.  I am very proud to say that since the installation in April '08, I haven't suffered the effects of algae growth even one time!!  I think that is pretty amazing and a great testimony to the capabilities of this system.  Algae cannot survive in a copper rich environment, period!  Hopefully the disgruntled individual above will give his system another chance.  It was worth the money I spent on it!  Thanks CL Free for doing a great job and standing by your product!

I don't know who this person is and I don't care. I have been a customer of CL Free Water Systems going on 7 years now and I have found this Company to be nothing but honest, straight Forward and have the greatest customer service I have ever seen.
Not only does their system work as advertised but it even surpassed my GREATEST expiations. I have perfect water and I LOVE not having Chlorine or Salt.

Bill Gillesat the Factory has been wonderful and very understanding even though I was a novice at my Pool needs.
I have only been dealing with Phil Franciscoin the last year as I refer many or my friends and he has been GREAT also.
I can't believe that someone would write such comments about this amazing product and it's truly good people. I don't blame CL FREE one bit for not refunding this persons money if he had the system for almost a year and never even gave them a chance to see what problems this person may have brought on himself.
Keep on going CL Free and don't let the BAD people get you down.

CL Free Water Systems is the Manufacturer and has been in business for over 10 years providing Healthy Chlorine Free Pools Systems to many of satisfied customers.

Chlorine Free USA is the Distributor and we also have many Dealers in the local market.

Here is a link to our Better Business Bureau:

http://central-northern-western-arizona.bbb.org/WWWRoot/Report.aspx?site=30&bbb=1126&firm=9002190.

As you can see, we not only have never had a dispute, we have never even had a complaint.

When we heard of the customer's story we were quite surprised and upset.

He called us from out of the blue 10 months after he purchased the system and said that he wanted to return it and if we did not return 100% of his money today he was going to make "BIG Trouble" for us.

No reason at all was given.

He called the Better Business Bureau with this complaint and after they impartially reviewed the case, the Better Business Bureau found his claim not credible.

We have a 30 day no questions asked, money back Guarantee (which most companies do not offer) from date of purchase and a five year Factory warrantee.

I guess he thought that if he only used our system for two weeks one year and two weeks the next year that it is still within the 30 day guarantee?

We did indeed sell our System to this customer almost a year ago. When we sell one of our Chlorine Free Systems, we ask only two things.

#1 When you are ready to install the system, call our Factory to make sure the system was installed correctly.

#2 Call customer support after the system is installed and have a water test done so we can make sure your current water is within "Normal Parameters" and balanced. Was this too much to ask?

I guess so, THIS Customer did neither.

Our Phone records show that he never even tried to call anyone for support or to find out why he was running his pool 24/7 for 14 days and not having the desired result.

Instead of allowing us to help him overcome an easily fixable problem he reverted back to chlorine and will continue to be in chlorine forever which is his loss.

The green slime he speaks of is algae caused from phosphates. Phosphates are algae food. Kill the food and you will kill the algae. The ONLY product that will kill phosphates is a product called Phos-Free.
Chlorine will temporally kill the algae but it will come right back because he did not kill the food, as he will find out.
It would not have made any difference whether he had been still using chlorine or any other sanitizer, he still would have had the same problem, ask any pool professional.

We will continue providing the Best NON-Chlorine, Non Saltwater system, ECO Friendly Pool Sanitation system despite ONE persons neglect and abuse.
This is simply one case of someone trying to take advantage of a business's reputation for their own personal gain.

It's NOT the money, it's the principal.
Where do you draw the line?

Do you know of any company that would return your money after you have used the product for almost a year?
I know times are tough but this is absurd.