Complaint Review: DS-MAX

If I knew nothing more of Cydcor or DS-Max or Granton Marketing than what I've learned in this thread, I'd still know enough to stay away.

On one side, you have the jilted employees who, to my summation, feel DS-Max et al is inherently deceptive via the job posting process, the exaggeration of potential earnings, the skewed risk vs reward and the tendancy for employees to face financial jeopardy during the training program. Many seem to have found success and contentment once they have left DS-Max et al.

On the other hand, you have the defensive owners who, to my summation, prefer to ignore the negative feedback and project all responsibility toward the failed employee for not being good enough, or working hard enough, or not being committed enough. Many seem to take great offense to anyone questioning the intangible characteristics of their organization.

I believe their is a covenant between employee and employer that goes beyond any W2 form; an unspoken covenant that must be preserved at any cost. This is the common thread that binds all at-will business agreements, and it has been broken.
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We, your employees, understand that it takes hard work, dedication, and an unwavering committment to a goal, in order to achieve success in any business. We understand that opportunity is not given, it is earned. We understand that not everyone has the ability, be it inherent in them or earned through the passage of time, to succeed in such a competitive environment. We understand that there is glory in victory, and honor in failure.

We, your employees, expect to be dealt with honestly and openly. We expect the rules of engagement to be consistent and fair. We expect opportunity to be based solely on performance, and never on politics or favoritism. We expect that our leadership never harbor hidden agendas. We expect to be treated with professionalism and respect while in the workplace. We expect to be fairly compensated for our efforts to advance the interests of the company before our own.
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It boils down to this, and it's very simple. There is no blame placed on anyone, anywhere. Our grievance is not with the system itself. The system itself is fine. It's all of you people who mess it all up. It's the greed, the collusion, the smoke and mirrors that drives us to destroy you. Mark #14 of London admitted that owners exaggerate their profits. You know as well as I what impact that has on impressionable minds. You also know that you create an environment to best exploit impressionable minds. I don't know what is worse, the idea that you aren't cognizant of what you're doing, or the idea that you know exactly what you're doing and have consciously tried to quell the voice of oppostion.

OWNERS OF DS-MAX/CYDCOR/GRANTON MARKETING SUBSIDIARIES

You are perpetuating a lecherous cancer on the a*s of capitalism. Every day you open your doors, another young man or woman inches closer to unmanageable debt (that includes you personally). Don't continue. Stop living the lie. Stop taking advantage of all of those susceptible strangers.

Having read some of the comments on this and other sites I think it's time for a lot of people to grow up.

In reality DS-Max, Cydcor and all the other companies that form the group world-wide, are no different than any other company out there.

For some people, working within the group will be the best time of their life - for others not so. Some will be challenged by the work and the physical stress of 12 hour days - others will complain. Some people will become extremely successful - others won't. Some will treat it like a business and others will take it personally.

From a factual point of view its not hard to see that the company is very successful. Before calling the claims of the company 'lies' it may be worth while sitting down and doing some research and simple maths. There are over 14,000 people who now run their own companies due to the hard work they have put in - all of them having started in the same way going door-to-door or business-to-business.

I have no doubt that there are managers within the group who over-estimate their earnings and exaggerate the ease of getting promoted. However, ultimately, it is not the managers that will make someone be successful or fail. What many of the above commentators clearly did not understand was that it was their business from the moment they set foot in the door.

What the group provides is an incubator to let you develop that business without having to take on the risk of bank loans, insurance, overheads and suppliers, accountants, lawyers, administrators and all the other concerns that the office manager must deal with.

Where the company falls down is that it allows people to believe that they can become successful. Personally, I'm glad someone did that for me, as even though I never became wealthy through DS-Max it did give me the belief and training to go on and start several successful businesses.

Ultimately, I would ask any of the respondents above what DSMax actually did to them? The reason you were attracted to it in the first place was the chance to be successful and it's only when you had failed that you decided that it couldn't possibly be your fault.

I thinks it's time for us all to grow up and stop blaming everyone else when things don't work out. The simple fact is that you weren't good enough or didn't work hard enough.

The rules are the same for everyone - some people win and some people lose. Have you ever noticed that it's never the winners who complain about the game?

You guys and gals, the funny thing about DS-Max is that only the people that believed in the "business" now hate DS-Max. Odd thing the regret and remorse that an adult has to endure for being suckered.

The business is very cultish-yet it is a real company and such the employees choose to be there. I was with an office in Orlando for a year before I was promoted-I had to move to Atlanta.

The cool thing is that it trained me how to sell a product. Shortly after opening my office in Altanta I went solo and have't looked back since.

I laugh to myself now when DS-Max kids knock on my door because I just sadly look in their eyes and say juice before I close close the door. I get the singular joy of knowing that I drove my "owner" out of business :-) DS-Max is driven by the strong interpersonal relationships between leaders and Reps. The leaders usually have a stronger relationship with the sales-fodder than the onwer does.

I look at friends that were driven to sell their houses, go into debt, and screw up long-term relationships because they believed in a charismatic leader. One sad thought is at one time our office introduced religion into the mix, with 20 reps getting into a prayer circle--I only laughed and went my own direction.

The thing is--the "opportunity" given by DS-Max is a hoax! Anybody can open a sales company and hire sales reps. I did it in Atlanta until my office lease ran out and I am doing it know in Orlando. 2 years out of DS-Max has given my the time to organize my life and get my life going in the direction I want it to go. I am my own owner and never again will I work for a Scam company. On a lighter note, I laugh because I made just under $100k last year without screwing people out of their lives. Most importantly, I don't have to lie to myself, my employees, my customers or you.

JUICE

I am an owner in the UK in the business. I have been for 18 months.

These reports that appear, to me are disgusting. I have guys working there a*s off right now for the opportunity that I have and I will do everything for them to ensure that they succeed. It took me almost two years to get promoted and I don't regret one moment of it.

One thing that you have to remember is that things in life don't come for free. You have to work for them, and this business gives you an opportunity that is unrivalled, and so what do you expect, of course you have to work hard! If that is deception, then I am deceptive!!!!

Please stop writing harmful messages about an honest and decent business.

Juice by all you leaders who work hard for a future, keep going and don't listen to negative people, but follow your heart!!!!!!!!!

I met Kernan in his Mount Prospect office in the summer of 2002. I worked for M.I.A. in Mount Prospect for 2 weeks. Thank God, I had the senses to ask questions and be very skeptical of what was being said to me. I'm very proud of myself.

By the way, one of the posters here mentioned Matt Holmes. I was with M.I.A. when he was assistant manager and then was "promoted" to run the Omaha office. I'll never forget his last speech the morning before he left. That dumbass was talking about how he was going to make sooooooooooo much money. The last I heard, good ol' Matt is running that office and still going door-to-door pitching pizzas. He fears the fate that befell his predecessor in Omaha, who was pushed out onto the street.

People who know me know that I do not wish ill-will on people. However, when the person is responsible for causing so much pain to so many people, may that person fail at everything they try. And that describes Matt. That son of a b***h gave me my first interview, then gave me and 3 others the company orientation. Therefore, I'm glad that his silly a*s is now running the streets of Omaha or whatever cornfield he's in.

While I'm upset at myself for lasting 13 days, I'm just proud that I got out. I remember they tried to convince me to stay, telling me that I'm dumb for leaving. What about the $$$ they said. All I could remember thinking was, "sooner or later your dumbasses will realize what I now know about this company. And too bad for you that your cost in life will be a lot more that mine."

WOW......

Comedy Gold.......

You guys are really pathetic..... ex distributors and owners, arguing over bullshit.... listen been an owner in the "business" before and now operate independently.... actually disgusted that owners are weak enough to argue with such crap and really dissappointed that you who claim to be ex-owners havent really learnt anything at all.... The bottom line is simple.... some of you tried the "business" and it didnt work for you.... thats the journey and good luck to you.... But my advice to you pathetic yanky suckers is; enjoy the lessons and enjoy the journey of life.... stop the pathetic excuses and don't bag something if you can't grasp it.... and it is obvious that you can't grasp it or you wouldn't waste time commenting about something which I think is the most amazing thing in the world i know..... JUICE to Murray and all the good times and friends I have had the oppotunity to share fun times with....

GOOD LUCK... but won't see you guys in hell....

Don't worry Mark, I doubt Kernan is really as rich as he is perceived to be. One of the things DS-Max losers spend a lot of time on is the IMAGE of having money. Owners claim to make at least six figures during their interviews, but if you ever asked them to prove it they would say something like, "Well I'm certainly not going to show you my personal information!"

Mark from Florida is a perfect example of a brainwashed cult member. First of all Mark, you have people spend a full day with you before hiring them so that you can cram their heads with BS. It has nothing to do with finding out if they are lazy or not, and here's why: Since they are not yet an employee the are not legally allowed to represent or sell anything. SO they don't do any work.

And the "...put 14,000 people in business" claim, give it a rest. I think a more interesting figure would be how many of those 14,000 (claimed, not verified) went OUT OF BUSINESS.

And when you said "WE need people to flip our burgers, wash our clothes, or detail our cars..." who was this "WE" that you were referring to? All the other dilusional owners? And if you were trying to imply that you live the good life you should have said, "We need people to serve our LOBSTER, take our clothes to get DRYCLEANED, and detail our BENZ's."

But I guess being able to afford the whopping $0.39 to get your meal "supersized" is quite an accomplishment for your budget. And if it says anything about your diet (which I am sure it does), then its no wonder that you consider walking all day "work".

Get your head checked.

The world is not as you portray it in your meetings you con-artist. You vampire. You make your living off gullible job applicants.

There are not just two alternatives in life: Being rick through ds-max or being a 9 to 5 schmuck.

People are not just distributors for you or future customers. Why would people who know what is up with your mlm - ever want to turn around and support it?

Ds-max is an evil organization that makes its living off screwing over 1000's of impressionable job applicants into going door to door for not much money.

Your meetings, twice daily advertising sessions, rules for what should and should not be talked about = all add up to mind control. You are part of cult that is worse than the moonies.

Yes, it's Mark Kernan you're talking about. When I worked in the F.J. Associates office (which also went by the moniker Noel Technologies), there were three Marks at the same time: me, Kernan, and Mark Levin, who last I saw by my W-2 had moved to California.

Anyway, it was an average office and although I was there for little more than a month, I saw the best and the worst. Isabel was a great leader, but her roommate Gil was a complete a**hole who I should have sued for kicking me one time on a road trip when he thought I wasn't walking up to the pitch person fast enough. But, I digress....

I just want to say to anyone who knows Kernan, Levin, or that office, that I am having SUCH a f**king great life right now! I gave up 10+ hour days and door-to-door BS to work 9-5 M-F, doing what I love every moment I'm "working" (journalism), and getting to come home to my fiancee (very soon to be wife!) by 5:30 during the week. Oh yeah, and as for "owning my own business," I am just about done creating the site for my own Internet-only editing company. Ah, making money for myself and not having to high-five, chant or say JUICE once...I love having a real life.

Speaking of real life...guys like Kernan may be rich, but who wants to be 35 or 40, retired and extremely wealthy, but without a life, legacy, family, or memories? Not me. "I choose life."

Dear Mark,

I worked in Jaime Hepp's office in Burbank, California. I remember when he gave that morning meeting. He even put a newspaper ad up on the wall. It was from McDonald's with the smiley face on it. It read "Now Hiring Smiling Faces."

Come to think of it, I remember that meeting in Dave Robinson's office; Will Boone's office; and from other owners under Paul Emm in his office.

Wow! My ex-DS-Max friends remember that meeting from all of their offices too!

Do you sell coupons or broken down toys? Do carry it around all day door to door or business to business? Do you chant in the morning? Do you say Juice all the time? When was the last time you had two days off in a row? Did the owner go through the "management training program?" Hey Mark---Wake up----I would like to stop critizing you, because I used to be an owner. I worked my butt of for quite along time. Once I got to ownership, I expected that 80-120k. I made about a 5th of that. JUICE BY THAT! The only people that make any money are HUBS and a few people up in Canada. The rest ..... So, please Mark, be honest, do you like this cult? Is it worth being embarassed day in and day out saying JUICE, and chanting, and meeting people you don't know and asking them to buy coupons or broken down toys.

I would like this person to name me somebody who has worked, from start to finish, 9-5 and is extremely successful (Legally). Before you scum something out why don't you try to get educated. Obviously you can not tell how lazy a person is in a preliminary interview and that is why they have you spend a full day. Mission accomplished. I am not going to sit here and scum you out just because of the things you said about the company or people in it. In fact, I just wanted to say thank you because if it weren't for you there wouldn't be an opportunity with that company. Everybody can not be an entrepreneur. We need people to flip our burgers or wash our clothes or detail our cars. I personally know and have worked with both individuals that were talked about and they are two of the greatest guys I know. You couldn't match their work ethic if their were twenty of you and that is why you will always be mediocre. So as far as perception, this so called company has put 14,000 people into business for themselves and is the 5th largest direct sales and marketing company on the planet. They say you are either working with us or you are buying from us. Either way, we will see you again.

p.s. I would like to super size my meal please.

I know who you are talking about. The man you just described is a man named Mark Kernan. Theif. Liar. Slave driver. Scam artist. Those are just a few words one can use to describe Mr. Kernan, his "company (which was called F.J. Associates when I was there.) and the organization that it is affiliated with, DS MAX.

Although I was only there for a short time. (summer of 2001. I had the wits to bail after just three extremely long months) I saw some things that haunt me to this day.

While I hope Mr. Kernan and his group of thugs are put in jail someday, I hope that one kind individual (a fellow by the name of Matt Holmes) receives the good life that he worked so hard for (and unfortuntely believed the company would provide.)