Complaint Review: DS-MAX (too many names to list)

well i've just quit gallop marketing aka DS MAX. ive wasted just over 4 mths of my life there doing the hardest work ive ever done. you run around pulling these stupid black bags that are all holes and minus wheels and try to sell crap that people can buy cheaper in shops. when you point this out you're told you are selling yourself ont the products!!! you "earn" as a trainer E450-600 per wk. or so youre told but then you get promoted and you take out observations (2nd round interviews) and retrains. what youre not told is you have to buy their bus tickets, lunches, ect. i dont know how many days it cost me to go to work. now that i have left i am considered a "neg head" not cut out or a waste of space do i care NO but i only hope others get sense and dont let keith fool them into thinking they are the next manager nice guys dont make it in this business

Andrew,

First of all you act like you are the only person from the UK to ever comment on this site. If you had bothered to do a more thorough search using options suck as ipg, cobra, ds-max, ds max, dsmax...you will find many entrys from your fellow countrymen.

You are not so gullible. Really? Why is it that such a huge company with so much opportunity, that has made so many people in the uk so wealthy is something you have never heard of before? Why is it that you are trained to mislead days of observations through a day in the field and only tell them what is until you are sure they can handle the truth? Why do you pay for your retrains earnings and not your owner? What kind of life will you have if you don't get your 5 leaders? How many people in the business have you met that have spent years going door to door for the same carrot and stick dream that never get it?

If such a person leaves, do you act like Darwin and claim that the business is like the survival of the fittest and pity him for having to take a lowly job while you persue your all glorious financial independance?

The great news is, Andrew, the world is not either financial independance through ds-max or a life of mediocrity. You are not a loser for realizing the lie, even that is how they indoctrinate you to think. Check out the msn user chat group ds-max the aftermath.

Best wishes to you.

Hi guys!

When I was backpacking in Australia I worked as an independent contractor in The Cobra Group. DS-Max is the parent company of The Cobra Group. I could see the great opportunity of the company but unfourtanetely only had a limited visa and so ran out of time before I had the return to England. Many of my friends have since been promoted in Australia. Incidently, no-one was earning crap money in Australia. Can't think the US is that different.

In Australia I learnt that the company had about 10,000 offices worldwide in over 20 countries, including the US, Canada, UK, France and Germany. I believe its a great world-wide opportunity and the only thing holding you back is YOU. Do you think Bill Gates is where he is today without a bit of hard work?

I don't know about America, but here in the UK we don't brainwashed that easy and are probablt the most sceptical people in the world. But hundreds of people have been promoted.

If you want to work a 9-5 for 40 years thats fine. But don't criticise others for wanting more. If it was that easy everyone would be millionaires. I just want five poeple like me, and them to get have people like them etc etc.

Anyway, I've waffled on enough. Just has to get involved from a British viewpoint.

When I was 21 I had moved to Harrisburg, Pa look ing for a new start. Well I found it. I answered an add " sports minded individual looking to make money and have fun. No exp." I went in for my preliminary interview and met with the manger.

Being that all i ever new was bartending and serving I really did not know what to expect. I sat down with my manager and he explained they do " onsite promotions " for clients in the sports, restaurant, and entertainment industries. He even went as far as to tell me about the promtion they did about the Yankees.

Being a huge Yankee fan that built my impulse even more and by the time I left there I wanted the job more than anything. When I got backed to my aunt's house she began asking me questions like what's the pay, what will you be doing, and I did not have the answers. All I can tell her is I would find out in the second round interview. Well I went in for the second round and it was my manager himself taking me out on my"day of o." He went through all of his five steps on the ride out and had me interested in what we were doing. Basicly because he pretty much made me tell him what we we would be doing and why it made sense. So we get to our territory.

A college campus for a business school in the area doing a promotion for a nation pizza chain. We spent most of the day walking around talking to college kids selling these coupons.

I saw him drop like 14 or 15 pieces and I was like d**n, I can do this. Plus the oppurtunity made sense. We'll I got the rehash call at the end of the night and I went in the next day against my aunt's wishes who warned me about " commission " jobs. I said let me try it out. I went in and my manager was going to be the one training me that day while his promoting manager was running the office. We went out and I had no problem catching on he stayed with me while I dropped my first 2 pieces and then I was on my own. I sold a total of 12 pieces that day and $108.

I thought this was great. I made leadership within my first week and a half and of course our hazing was the crazy rhino. For those of you unfamilar, once everyone leaves except the leaders you have to drop down to your boxers and run around yelling I'm a crazy rhino. I was like wow, something I think I can be good at. Plus the fact I was new to the area and didn't know anyone and was looking to make friends. Being that my manager was already in management he passed me to another leader in the office.

Things were going good. I was making friends, having fun, and making some money. But I became so engulfed in this that my aunt started to become concerned. She wanted me to quit. I was like no way. Your just jealous cause i'm willing to do what you won't and blah blah blah. She threw me out and I ended up living with my leader and his girlfriend who hated me.

He would tell her I need him, I can't afford to lose him, and i ended up staying making their life as well as mine a living hell. Finally my manger said I could move in with him so I did. We were both the same age and got along really good he became one of my best friends. After a couple months it was going good. I was ringing the gong almost every day. The field became easy.

I was running impact(highrollers speach in the morning) almost every day. I beat all my managers records and hit the century club 4 times which was done only one other time in that office by my manager. I didn't mind the long hours and I was learning how to build a crew and I met a girl that I fell in love with. I started to get close after builing and losing several teams. We had our leader meeting Atlantic City and I got to run up in front of 4000 people and recieve my first of two top leaders awards and watched him promote his brother to management. After that my leader quit the business. The funny thing is even though I had a leader my manager referred to me as his right hand man.

Now this is where everything goes wrong. The plan is my manager gives the harrisburg market to his brother while we go out to Philadelphia to help run that market then once I got to management I would get execucard another form of the business. Well It did not work out like that.

All the promises my manager made right down the tubes. Rather than staying Harrisburg with my crew that was up to about 13 people I chose to stick by managers side and left my crew with the exception of 3 leaders and went to Philadelphia. Now at this point my girlfriend and I had convince her parents we were doing the right thing blah blah and I promised her parents I would take care of her. The best part of all this is we had to be in Philadelphia by a certain date with no place to live and barely any money between us. We spent almost a month and a half living in a hotel. So all my money not only went for my share but I also had to cover my girlfriends because she wasn't working. At this point we were going nowhere. Finally, the one leader in the office called his grandmother and she sent him $4000 so the six of us can have first months rent and security to move into a house for all of us.

After about a month things did not change. We got my girlfriend a job as our administrator which she did very well but other than that everyone with the exception of myself was strugging in the field. It came to the point where my girlfriend and I were picking up the slack for these guys. It began to become very frustrating. Finally one day we broke. My girfriend and I got into with each other over something stupid and with all this other crap it amplified it by 1000. It was one of the worst experiences of my life. I couldn't handle it anymore. At this point I was with the company 2 years and did not get anywhere after giving it all I had. I left. I left the business, I left Philly, and I left the girl that I still love to this day.


I gave everything I could, in the process hurting people that I love and care about most because I was so wrapped up and confused, ultimately costing the girl I want more than anything.

My manager would brag about the money he made but you never saw it. He drove a 1991 Accord and I heard within the last year he actually had to have his mom cosign a loan so he can get a new car. On the flipside my first year out of the company I started a job with another company My first year with them I made over $50000. A lot better than the $17000 that I made as the "top guy" and alot less hours. My first year I bought the car I always wanted, a Nissan 300zx, and I also bought my self a truck so I don't have to drive my car in the winter. Both paid in cash by the way. After 2 years with the company I'm now 25 years old and a Senior Rep with my company. I've bought a home and just recently a limited edition Grand Cherokee. This year i'll make about $60000 and my company is paying for my education.
The best part is I can do all this without ripping people off or hurting others lying and misleading them.

Hey B.M. Whose the jedi apprentice now. Maybe someday you'll go in and pay for vehicles cash. When you get to my level. Let me know.

yes, an agreement, like endentured slaves did, in order to work for these clowns. (I apologize to all clowns insulted) Disclosure my a*s! Every single one of those "independent" offices, that are not really independent, use the same tactics. And to say they don't, you are lying to yourself in order to face another day of slave labor. Just when you think you have your agreement of endentured slave paid off, you gotta start all over again. That is if you make it to the next level before you loose everything. I do believe that even the Jehovahs only require 20% of your earnings, not 75% or more.

Notice, that even if you have a substatial amount of money with the company, it is still the companies money, in their account. You have to get permission to use your own money? If my bank had even 50 cents of my moeny, and they had to authorize my use of it, I would go to extordinary lengths to make sure they never had another deposit made to them.

Be aware, it is not your choice, it is not your money, it is not your company, and it certainly isn't your life. Not when 3 little n**i dictators tell you how to run all of the above.

You will never reach the summit. It will always be an uphill battle. Picture pulling a wagon up a hill with square wheels, and the brakes are on. The rope is frayed, so everytime you really start to get the wagon skidding up the hill the rope breaks. You slide back a few feet, (back to b2b) and those three scammers are up on top throwing rocks and mud down. You can see them, yes, they may reach out and pretend to help you up, but they are ready with the mud to help you right back down.

I feel pity for those people still working for this sham of a company. Oh by the way, I turn them away whenever they come to sell the crap that I once did. I also inform them of their chances of making it to the top, about none.

I believe that is a fair assesment of the situation.

Think about this... I went to college and paid alot of money to go to one of the top private universities in the country(ok, I went to Princeton[a really hard school to get into to, if you don't believe me, go ahead and try!] because I wanted a job that would promise me "financial independence"). I graduated with TWO bachelor's and moved to Chicago to find something. After seven interviews in six days, Granton Marketing PROMISED me the most in the shortest amount of time and because of the student loans I had, I took it even though it was door-to-door.

I committed myself for six months. I made no new friends besides the people that worked with me, had no relationships at all, and quit talking to my family because they lived one hour ahead of me and at 11pm when I finally got out of work it was midnight there. I trained and put people on my crew, sold 350+ dollars a day in merchandise (meaning I made more than 120 dollars a day)and still, after paying retrains $50 dollars a day, food (I weigh 105 pounds; I eat a sandwich a day) and gas,( I always had to drive because no one in the "business" could afford a car) after my rent, utilities, and car payment with insurance, my total made a month amounted to 120 a month extra working 72 hours a week, six days a week, and I don't drink alcohol! I had to hire a dog sitter to come in once a day because I lived alone and I wasn't there 13 hours a day and the cheapest one I found was $75 a week, so I ended up saving $35 dollars amonth. How does a person pay for student loans, dog food, and clothes/shoes [which you need walking around 8 hours a day] every month with only $35 dollars?

I was so brainwashed that I still believed in it until I became really sick from not eating. Without insurance, my doctor visit and prescription was a lot of money and I got a notice for eviction. I went online and found a job at a state college near me and I went in for an interview. Needless to say, with my two degrees, I was offered the position.

Now, I make $122,000 dollars a year. I work for 4 hours a day, three days a week, Monday, Wednesday, and Friday. I have office hours two hours a week. I also have full benefits, 401K, and paid vacation for three weeks out of the school year. I also get paid during the summer when I don't even work. Oh, and I am only 22 years old. I get to talk to my family, I have made friends, and I have been seeing someone for 5 months now. I also paid off my student loans, paid off my car, and put a down payment on a two story, five bedroom home, just in case I want to have kids.

So, if you think going door-to-door 72 hours a week for commission and no benefits will make you rich with lots of friends, think again. Go to college and join Corporate America ... you'll not only have 10 times more money, but a hell of a lot more time to have a life and keep it,as well. Plus, I thought I was happy with Granton Marketing. I now realize what TRUE happiness is.

Hope everyone comes to their senses,

Ha ha ha! It is inceredible to see how all of these current branch managers, district managers, and "owners" are still brainwashed into believing in thier own opportunity. The only succesful people that I know in this business are the ones who left and started something similar completely on thier own. The whole system is designed to keep all employees, yes that includes the so called division / branch owners financially dependent. Our (by this I mean when I was involved in helping to form some of my friends business plans) goal was to never allow anyone in the company to make enough to branch of and be truly running an office independently. Why would anyone want a manager to make over 100,000 per year? If they did, and were somewhat educated (which is not the type of person that I used to try to hire, because educated, independent people do not stick around for too long once they see the truth about how the company works)they would leave the business altogether and start thier own independent venture. What succesful people in this country who make millions partner up and front money for each other's ventures? Bullsit, it doesn't happen. They use other people's money, aka the money earned by all of the suckers they hire. All you morons that believe that there are thousands of offices worldwide are sadly mistaken. Simply log on to the BBB or check the Global Business Network and you will see, the few actuall offices that exist all trickle funds to the same 3 or 4 pockets. When DS MAx started years ago it consisted of a few Canadian guys selling pots and pans and later they split up. G started DS MAx and went nationwide and Rick Munroe started the IPM GROUP in Los Angeles. The 3 brains had a fued over finances and they seperated, each running thier own multi-level marketing scam.

Any (educated) manager knows, as I myself once ran a branch office before running my own completely independent venture, the whole system is designed to scam and exploit an uneducated, desperate labor force. I had to seek loans and family help to set up my business because after 3 years in the company, I had just barely broken even, and I did that by busting my hump day in and day out day after day and running a succesful crew. Now I can honestly say that I actually run my own business, all mine, and I don't have to coerce people into comming to work for me. They actually want to knowing everything sbout how my business works. (which has nothing to do with marketing or sales) You will actually learn nothing in this business, except for how not to get scammed by a company ever again. The longer you wait the more skills you will actually lose, which makes it that much harder to actually find another job when you eventually, just like everyone else, leaves either of these two companies. I've seen some really educated people fall so behind that the only jobs they could get were selling cars or office products. Let's face it, the millions to be made in these businesses are already being made, the owners DO NOT WANT NEW COMPETITION. (If you don't understand that, then you should stay in these companies, because that is as good of a position your uneducated a*s will ever get in life.)

Aother important point to make at this time is regarding the few managers that make some good money. Yes, some including myself have made some unbelievable paychecks with the company. The high that I got from these checks is what kept me going for as long as I did. However, these checks are never consistent, the good ones are followed my weeks of nothing. When you average out your income, you're in the bottom 50% of wage earners in this country. The only way all of these people who are writing in and supporting these companies with "bullshit" examples and stories will ever wake up is if they look at themselves in the mirror and in thier wallets. It's very hard to lie to yourself unless you are brainwashed.

Another hillarious aspect to this so called "job" is that nobody on the top, even myself at some point, wants to admit what they really do. By this I mean that there are glamourized titles for every position and different catch phrases for what you do. When I was writing up a B-plan for a new internet marketing site, we found this system to be ingenious. You never technically move up, you just earn new titles. When you are a trainee, manager, branch leader, etc..... you are just the same as the guy on his first week.....except you have to do more. Making you take on more back-breaking responsibility, for a few dollars more a day,(often for even less pay), insures that you will not leave (because you are all the much closer to that mysterious "top" that is completely arbitrary) and it insures more money flowing into the owner's pockets. By giving you more to do as a manager you have less time to think about how assinine the whole procedure is. Then we would dangle some financial figure in front of your mouth to make you wet, and you push it even more.(Have you ever seen the cartoon where the turtle is riding the rabbit while dangling a carrot in front of the rabbit attached to a fishing pole?)All the while taking all of those underneath you along for the ride since we told you that thier success means your success.(More work for you, more money for the owners) At that point it doesn't mean s**t wether you stick it out with the company any longer, you've already created and trained the next generation of suckers for us to use and fill in your position with. You leave, and we have little Johnny to step up in your position becuase he wants he opportunity more than you did. HAHA! Brilliant. Little does little Johnny know that you probably left because you were dead broke. You think you can quit and take your crew with you, guess again, that's covered too, and you d**n well know it. If there are any neg's in the office, they're gone before anyone knows it. Thier reasons for leaving are covered by at least 20 standard responses. When I had managers quit underneath me, my supervisor always gave me "generic responses" to tell the crew. "It just wasn't for them"...."He was just a p***y who wanted to be average"........."The s**t got knocked up"......."We caught him involved in fraud"......etc, etc. All were flat out lies that I now regret and am atoning for......hence my dedication to this cause. I feel so awful about ever being involved in such a web of lies, and being blinded by my own greed, that I have made it a goal to pull whoever I can out of this business. So far I've taken 48 reps off of the streets. If you see reps in the city, just give them this website address and tell them the truth about the business. I've even intercepted a few outside of our old offices when I had some free time and told them who and what they work for. I urge all of you that want to put an end to this to go back to your old offices and get people out, there is nothing the owners can do to you if you wait outside and intercept reps as they leave for the day or come back in the evening as long as you are on public property. Even if they threaten you or chase you away, the reps will see it and begin to ask themselves questions when they go home later that night. That is all it takes to spark someone into realizing that these are not honest businesses and to hopefully quit. Also take their names and numbers for the impending class action lawsuits that are building momentum. The more the merrier. Even if we don't win, it will cost the owner's a fortune in legal fees and there are plenty of lawyers that are willing to dedicate thier time for free to fight for employee rights. Let's hit them where it hurts boys and girls. I want compensation for the 3 1/2 years of my life that they stole and I know we can all get it.

Now, to address the daily routine. The daily routine (morning chants, morning meetings, weekend "extra miles", lunch sit downs with DOBS, and afternoon chants are all simply designed to keep evryone's minds, including the managers, busy to the point where grasping the reality, the bitter reality of the situation is impossible. Believe me, if we based these companies out of countries with no labor laws, you would never be able to go home. That would insure total control and obedience. You're mind would be so occupied with JUICY bullshit you wouldn't know your a*s from your face. The only thing you would do is think sell, sell, sell. We would not even need to promise you any significant amount of money at that point, because you would be too busy to care. The promise of a six figure income and incredible opportunity is reiterated every evening before you go home so that it is the last thing on your mind. Remember, since you go home and actually speak with people who are not brainwashed, we may lose you on any given night. The though of possible wealth is like an insurance policy keeping the company / opportunity in your mind at all times. Another intersting point that many of you fellow victims will attest to is how we cover rational objections you will get from family and friends before you even go home after your first day on the job. We tell you that your family and friends will never earn you a penny later in life even if they love you. I was personally told to tell my crew when I was a new manager that they should not describe the sales they do out on the street but should rather tell thier family and friends that they were networking with businesses. These are all just words that cover the shameful truth, the entire company, besides the owners, are no better than peddlers who hustle oranges and stuffed animals on the street. No matter what product, they are all usually leisure goods (overstock crap) that people normally would not buy unless coerced to do so. Hence the magic training of the "PITCH". The "pitch" is no more than an ambiguos guideline on how to scam people into buying goods wether appealing to thier emotions or needs. It teaches how to prey on the weak to make a fast buck. In my years in the business, I rarely walked up to someone who really wanted or needed what I had. I did however, trick thousands into buying. For that, I am definitely sorry, since I came to realize at the time of my resignation (which was by the way kept secret from my whole office because the other managers were deathly afaraid that everyone would leave if they knew why I was leaving and the information I had about the goods that the company was selling) that we were in fact selling bogus deals for marked up prices that anyone with 2 cents in thier head could find for way better prices. Repeat customers are almost non-existent in this business, that is why they are constantly moving to new areas. Once you f**k one town, it's on to the next, and if you don't want to move to the next town with your office like a vagabond, tough s**t.....no more bullshit pipe dream of an opportunity for you. Oh, and by the way goin back to the line where I describe my leaving the office. I later found out from some of my crew members who quit, that they were told I got promoted and was actually running a branch office somewhere in Seattle. Now you see how the lies motivate other managers who are supposedly "almost there".

They can a poor b*****d and everyone thinks he has made it. Un-f cking-beleivable. Anyway, I'm glad to say that all I had to do was contact some of my old crew that still worked for the company (which I was threatened not to by managers and one of the owners) and tell them the truth. The office lost almost all employees except for some brand-new people, who were probably told that the whole office was promoted in some other state (it would not be over thier heads to come up with a lie like that) or that the manager had to do some housecleaning because of some mysterious employee corruption in the office.

The independent agreements that the company files with each employee are also a big scam...they are in essence documents that give up all of your rights to sue the company. They are worded with such legal jargon that nobody can understand unless they have an attorney present and the paperwork is never fully explained to any of the employees.(I have sent samples to lawyers already) Nobody in thier right mind, unless desperate to make a quick dollar, would sign such an agreement. I did because I was simply too excited at the time to have my first job out of college. (Little did I know this was about to be my biggest lesson in life.....how not to be taken ever again). We were often confronted with reps saying that they did not recieve paychecks for sales made or thier final checks once they quit. We were covered. The agreements allow the company to cancel final payment through a bogus clearing period in order to account for canceled checks and credit cards. Bullshit.......99% of all reps were told that thier final customers canceled orders or changed thier minds and that thier commissions on canceled deals would not be paid out. That is another reason why we were hiring mostly desperate and uneducated people. They would never have the mindset to even know how to begin investigating this nor the time to do so since they were left for broke and worrying where they were going to get some money for thier next meal. (Yes, some reps and even managers were that desperate......if that does not say something about the power of the brainwashing techniques, then I do not know what does). The sales agreements would also never hold up in court, and we all knew that. The companies violate labor laws up and down the row, including hiring minors under 18 who do not even have to adhere to a legal binding contract such as the agreements we gave them. No overtime was paid even though it was required (up to 70 hrs per week). Expenses were not reimbursed even though they were required to move forward. Paychecks were skimmed and commissions not paid out when business was slow.......excuses such as cancelled orders were given. All in all, the companies would lose a class action lawsuit hands down. Employees who are interested in getting back what they earned should definitely come together and go after these fat cats, expecially now when the government is investigating corporate corruption, and usually on the employees side. It's time to send these fat f**ks back where they came from with thier tails between thier legs. They are not sorry for what they have done and cotinue to do it day in and day out. While the 3 or 4 guys on top enjoy fabulous lifestyles they rob young adults of thier potential and time every hour of every day.
Take care......Your Brother from Another Mother

PS- I hope this will inspire some of you to come out and save some of the other people in these companies. I know alot of people also look at this website. Also, to those writing those gutwrenching stories about how thier sons, daughters, and friends have been in this business and succeeded, it's all CRAP. I know this because the story of the daughter succeeding and the son failing is the same one we used in one of our old offices. HA HA! They must use the same d**n ones in each office. Ironic. It's a brilliant sales tool, Burn build burn. Don't make it too one sided.....have at least one of the children fail.....but reiterate that one has made a killing. You guys who wrote that s**t will never learn......you salesmen are your own best customers.....look in the mirror every morning and thank yourself for selling this miserable life to yourself. (and wear more deodorant..... because hustling in the gutters all day usually leaves one smelling quite ripe) I never met a millionaire who looked or smelled like that at any point and made his money in this kind of business from the bottom up, have you? And if you say you have, do some background investigation....you will be surprised at how the owners belittle thier pasts to win your acceptance.

I was in DS Max in Tampa and can tell you the story about your son is a load of crap. No manager that was based out of Tampa Florida has sent out three outside deals from this city in the last two years. Hell no manager has promoted three outside deals from the city period. That does sound like a meeting that you would hear in the morning. I should know Ive heard a years worth and could tell you just about all of them.

I was in DS Max in Tampa and can tell you the story about your son is a load of crap. No manager that was based out of Tampa Florida has sent out three outside deals from this city in the last two years. Hell no manager has promoted three outside deals from the city period. That does sound like a meeting that you would hear in the morning. I should know Ive heard a years worth and could tell you just about all of them.

Mr. Peddler:

You said, "they wanrned me that this site was filled with nothing but ignornce"

I assume you mean "ignorAnce". The real ignorance is the truth that you fail to realize. You mentioned a "jaw bone" in your response. Funny I saw that in another response. Was it your roommate? Your response is the same carbon copy as every other pro-DS-Max response. Instead of actually facing the accusations you attack the person (people) making the accusations.

Let's break this down, shall we?

Your attempted insults:

1. "is it because you could obviously not cut it"

2. "people that don't have the drive obviously weed themselves out."

3. "do you think that most of the people on this site that are talking about false promises and no money or oppurtunity are the same people that when they started in the business had a jaw bone and all they did was talk about being a owner or making it in this business? "

4. "And by the way for all of you people that stayed in the business and didn't make any money or were in the company for more then a year and didn't get to management it's not because you were weak it's because you weren't trained properly,and to be quite honest with you, you probably spent to much time on your computer."

There you have it: Four insults (the fourth one was slightly veiled) and not a shred of valid argument. Care to back up your claims of "16,000 times over" with an independant source? You cannot.

Keep passing the buck though. "It's not me, I'm not a bad owner." Soon enough you'll realize that you aren't an owner. You may lease a property, but everything else is under the control of DS-Max. Disagree? Then why is it that the ultimate achievement is not "ownership" but becoming a "VP"? What are you a "VP" of? Surely it isn't your own company.

Everything else aside, this is the most BS statement you made that really illuminates your character and the character of the scam you defend tooth and nail:

"well i have 25 men and women (which are all older then me) that are my partners and friends and for me to say to them you are all going to be rich is assinine. But they know that 5 or 6 of them will get there and for the few that don't they won't leave on bad terms they will get what they want out of life i believe because they put forth a lot of time and effort and belief in myself to get them somewhere or to teach them a proven system 16 000 times over and hope they succed in life."

So you are saying that only the people who go through YOUR office are genuine and hardworking? That in your own little microcosm people leave an incredibly lucritous venture simply because it "wasn't for them?" You beleive that they will be happy in life because you taught them some numerated lists and a few acronyms? Jeez, maybe you should be on the UN council. Seriously, in your morning meetings do you chant "25% of us might make it! Juice by that!" No you don't. But I know that you still ask ALL of them to commit themselves 100% to a chance.

The rest of your statement was "me, me, me, look at what I did." Of course you are going to defend yourself and attempt to give validity to a BS chance. The only way you can make money is by lying to people.

You really need to wake up to reallity.

Yo, T! Wassup! We're glad that you and your buds got together for a good laugh before hitting the streets to go begging! Guess what? The whole world is laughing at YOU! Ha ha ha!

If you came to my door with this DS-MAX garbage I'd give you a ritual teabagging then send you down to Wal-Mart for a REAL job! Ha ha! POWWWW! Would you enjoy that, T?

You're a successful enterpreneur like the guy selling oranges next to the freeway offramp! You're in business for yourself like the guy with the sign that says "Will Work for Food"! Do you get it through your thick skull yet, T, and the rest of your DS-MAX drones? Huh?

Why i ask, why are all of you here doing this? is it because you could obviously not cut it in a business that is entirely built upon blind faith and having a belief in a proven system 16 000 times over? let me talk about me for a second if i can. I am 20 i am a owner in Canada I have been in this bussiness for one year almost to the day today (march 17 2003) and I was told about this site from one of my guy's, they wanrned me that this site was filled with nothing but ignornce but once i got it i was soo disgusted it blew my mind. So for my "Meeting" today i brought all of my guy's / Friends / Business partners to my desk to look at the s**t that you people write about. and i didn't have to Brainwash them into thinking the oppurtunity was real or not. all they had to do was read this crap that you guys write in about.They saw that it was very real and that people that don't have the drive obviously weed themselves out. hey guys (hey what?) do you think that most of the people on this site that are talking about false promises and no money or oppurtunity are the same people that when they started in the business had a jaw bone and all they did was talk about being a owner or making it in this business? or were they the people that were to good to learn about something real that is the system that ds max provides that is as much as what you put into it. This stuff blows my mind ladies and gentleman. If you were in the company and it didn't work out for you i'm very sorry that you gave up or got screwed out of your oppurtunity. I'm sorry that your owner didn't take care of you or had "your back" well i have 25 men and women (which are all older then me) that are my partners and friends and for me to say to them you are all going to be rich is assinine. But they know that 5 or 6 of them will get there and for the few that don't they won't leave on bad terms they will get what they want out of life i believe because they put forth a lot of time and effort and belief in myself to get them somewhere or to teach them a proven system 16 000 times over and hope they succed in life. And by the way for all of you people that stayed in the business and didn't make any money or were in the company for more then a year and didn't get to management it's not because you were weak it's because you weren't trained properly,and to be quite honest with you, you probably spent to much time on your computer. I went from my day of "O" to assistant manger in just under four months, and it was because i worked as hard as i could and i put faith into a proven system and took advantage of every situation that was made available. I have been in this business for one year now and reflecting back i wouldn't change anything because i am offering the same oppurtunity that my manager gave to me. Not to brag but, i own a house , car , all the toys in the world ( or i guess ill say as much as a 20 year old would want), and 25 000 in the bank and all of my guys get lots of bonuses and i take care of them so please if you all could take this rubbish elsewhere it's making my guys/ girls are laughing to much....

Thanks succesfull owner...
JUICE.by

oppurtunity for those who want and deserve it...
So let me ask all of you people that bash my business, what motivates you? What excites you? The sad thing is people somewhere on this planet or in one of 102 countries we are in will read this and blow becuase of you and your remarks. and that's to bad because if i had my way all of you would be in my office and see what oppurtunity is all about. Again sorry things didn't work out but come on ..... get a life and get a job. thanks for taking the time to read this on your lunch break or inbetween shifts.

SEE Ya,
Sucessful Peddler

Why i ask, why are all of you here doing this? is it because you could obviously not cut it in a business that is entirely built upon blind faith and having a belief in a proven system 16 000 times over? let me talk about me for a second if i can. I am 20 i am a owner in Canada I have been in this bussiness for one year almost to the day today (march 17 2003) and I was told about this site from one of my guy's, they wanrned me that this site was filled with nothing but ignornce but once i got it i was soo disgusted it blew my mind. So for my "Meeting" today i brought all of my guy's / Friends / Business partners to my desk to look at the s**t that you people write about. and i didn't have to Brainwash them into thinking the oppurtunity was real or not. all they had to do was read this crap that you guys write in about.They saw that it was very real and that people that don't have the drive obviously weed themselves out. hey guys (hey what?) do you think that most of the people on this site that are talking about false promises and no money or oppurtunity are the same people that when they started in the business had a jaw bone and all they did was talk about being a owner or making it in this business? or were they the people that were to good to learn about something real that is the system that ds max provides that is as much as what you put into it. This stuff blows my mind ladies and gentleman. If you were in the company and it didn't work out for you i'm very sorry that you gave up or got screwed out of your oppurtunity. I'm sorry that your owner didn't take care of you or had "your back" well i have 25 men and women (which are all older then me) that are my partners and friends and for me to say to them you are all going to be rich is assinine. But they know that 5 or 6 of them will get there and for the few that don't they won't leave on bad terms they will get what they want out of life i believe because they put forth a lot of time and effort and belief in myself to get them somewhere or to teach them a proven system 16 000 times over and hope they succed in life. And by the way for all of you people that stayed in the business and didn't make any money or were in the company for more then a year and didn't get to management it's not because you were weak it's because you weren't trained properly,and to be quite honest with you, you probably spent to much time on your computer. I went from my day of "O" to assistant manger in just under four months, and it was because i worked as hard as i could and i put faith into a proven system and took advantage of every situation that was made available. I have been in this business for one year now and reflecting back i wouldn't change anything because i am offering the same oppurtunity that my manager gave to me. Not to brag but, i own a house , car , all the toys in the world ( or i guess ill say as much as a 20 year old would want), and 25 000 in the bank and all of my guys get lots of bonuses and i take care of them so please if you all could take this rubbish elsewhere it's making my guys/ girls are laughing to much....

Thanks succesfull owner...
JUICE.by

oppurtunity for those who want and deserve it...
So let me ask all of you people that bash my business, what motivates you? What excites you? The sad thing is people somewhere on this planet or in one of 102 countries we are in will read this and blow becuase of you and your remarks. and that's to bad because if i had my way all of you would be in my office and see what oppurtunity is all about. Again sorry things didn't work out but come on ..... get a life and get a job. thanks for taking the time to read this on your lunch break or inbetween shifts.

SEE Ya,
Sucessful Peddler

Hey Jared. You might not know the Fraud Hammer but in a little bit you'll be very well acquainted with my brand of digital justice. You sound pig-headed so it's going to hurt when I knock some sense into that thick shill dome of yours...

POW! and there's some roundhouse hammer action straight to your skull! Ouch! Painful, no? Hold on, here's a little more BLAMM! Owww! Do I have your attention? Good! Your stories about your degrees are 10000% bullshit and now we're wise to you.

Filthy ripoffs like you really turn my stomach! This is the umpteenth report I've read about your company's thieving ways and now I'm SERVING NOTICE! You can change your name but you can't hide from FRAUD HAMMER X JUSTICE! Go door-to-door if you must but don't you dare disgrace this honorable area with your deceit and trickery? You got that, hmmm? You don't look so sure.

Let's see if I can help it soak thru your bony melon: KAPOWWWW! Ha ha! Now go lick your wounds like the cur you are and let this be a lesson! Tell your bosses and your colleagues that Judgment has a new name and the name is FRAUD HAMMER X!

We have done you and your ilk enough FAVORS Jared. Why the heck else would we warn others?

Once we had to act a certain way and adopt a philosophy if we were going to "succeed" in your outfit. We could only mention some topics and act certain ways.

But there is something in this country called free speech.

Your outfit has no hr, no unions, no rights for the little guy. Nothing but the impulse to adopt an all or nothing do or die total dedication to the business attitude.

Part with your income to help train new hires, misleed new hires into believing in false dreams and swindle customers with questionable products.

So sorry your new people have some other medium to find out more about the truth of this outfit than from what you want them to know.

I think we have done Ds-max enough FAVORS. Why else would so many people from all over creation feel a need to warn people?

Your company has no one looking out for the labor. No hr, no unions, no check of any kind at all.

So, many people get screwed. You might be a good guy - but you are in an evil system. And even if you are good - you are constantly using misleading tactics to hire people. Telling them only certain things to get them to go on a day of o. And I bet you have loads of storys about guys that went broke in your office.

And now you want to put all the blame on us.

And now you are angry that guys have a place to go to find out something contrary to your all imposing all or nothing succeed in the business or die mentality.

Well we arn't in your atmosphere anymore and there is something in this great country called free speach.

God bless America!!!

I'm reading these responses to what people think anout d.s-max. Its funny how people can have different opinions to what people think. This man's son is becoming a success, making a ton of money, and yet people are upset by that because it couldn't work for them.

All these people that talk smack about the company are individuals that either A never became truly educated or B couldn't handle the field therefore would never be able to handle running their own operation.

I've been in the business for two and a half years now. I have two undergraduate degrees as well as my M.B.A. Knocking on residential doors is not something I'd ever invision myself doing yet I did it because of the opportunnity that presented itself.

I currently have one office with four opening in the next month. D.S. Max has over forty thousand dollars of mine in savings. That's how much I trust this company. The funny thing about all of this information that I have read is that you decide whether you will fail or you will succeed in this business. Can I tell you that everyone will run their business with honesty and integrity NO!!

However, welcome to society because many companies are not truthful. I know I run my business with character, honesty, and of good ethics and as a result I will be a millionnaire before the age of thirty.

Please do me a favor, don't talk smack because you don't have what it to become an owner with d.s. max or any of its affiliates. You chose to quit and give up. Nobody forces you to go in the field or do the business. Its a choice you have to make for yourself. However, do me a favor seek the proper knowledge from individuals that are the right examples of our business before you go out making your own judgements. Thank you!!

Michael,
I like your "son's" "crap up to his knees" analogy. You don't know how true it is.
When you are in DS-Max, you are always in crap. But it is DS-Max that doesn't allow you to look up and find a way out. They put you in a situation with a bunch of other people who are also in the crap. Then they set the rules to ensure that nobody mentions or even realizes the fact that they are in the crap - those that do are dealt with. That crap is DS-Max's product; a nice little pipe-dream called "financial independence."

Everything is a tactic set up to ensure that the truth never comes out, 'cause like they say, its contagious. Here's a summary of the key components that accomplish that:

Morning meetings: They start at 7:00am - You are supposed to get there early to talk to your owner so that he can tell you what you need to do to get to "ownership." Then you go through various meetings and presentations that all reiterate the same concepts; the 5 steps, the 8 steps, FUGI factors, the road to ownership, and JUICE/company history. Basically, the whole time, if they aren't talking to you about the company, you should be talking to someone else about the company. By the time you leave the office to do some actual work it is usually 9:30 or later. The morning meeting is 2+ hours of what they call "training." It is 6 days a week. It is mandatory but unpaid. To put things in perspective, the avg. college student spends about 12.5 hrs. real time in class a week, and the subject matter is progressive. In an average week at DS-Max you spend at least 18 hrs. shouting and talking about the same five or six concepts. How can this not be brainwashing?

The field: Being in the field isn't really a concern of the owners, because it is commission work. So if you want to make some money to justify spending so much time at the office every day, you are going to bust your a*s. If you have a trainee with you, or a person on their "day of observation" you spend all your time presenting a few select portions of the same concepts you just spent all morning shouting and chanting.

The after-work meeting, or "Atmosphere,": This is very similar to the morning meetings, except there is music. Rules are put in place so that there is no chance to realize how shitty the job is, and how unlikely it is that you are going anywhere with it. There is no sitting, leaning, or moments of quiet reflection allowed. The whole hour or so is dedicated to celebrating the opportunity. In the office I worked in, if you answered the questions "How'd you do today?" or "How was your day?" with anything but "GREAT!" you were looked at sideways and lectured at.

At the core of all of it is a concept shared throughout the company, called the "First and sixth steps," both steps are in regards to having a great attitude. Having a great attitude means negative attitudes are never welcome. If you had a bad day for whatever reason (including flat tire, assault, loss, etc.), you better not talk about it in a negative way! You have to talk about how you will turn the negative into a positive, no matter how bad it is. This is both irresponsible and dangerous.

After experiencing a stressful situation the natural thing to do is to reflect, assess, and decide. But DS-Max owners know that this would lead to people making the intelligent choice to leave, and that would equate to less money for them and less chance for promotion - so they jump in and deny the person time to "reflect and assess" by forcing them to immediatly figure out what good they can draw from it - they prevent them from making an intelligent decision. Not only that, but if anyone becomes truly overwhelmed with problems and the quick fix solution just isn't working, they are seperated from the group (before anyone else can see that it is possible for a person to be having a bad day), and degraded further by the owner in private. When you have people constantly downplaying your real and serious problems under the guise of helping you "maintian a great attitude" it leaves you feeling pretty empty.

The constant meetings that don't really teach you anything and the lack of real emotional support results in a person who is mentally and emotionally vacant. It creates a zombie, not a "rhino." One true example of such a zombie is an owner who, after the September 11 attacks (actually the day of), told his crew that it was a great opportunity for advertising (door-to-door sales), because everyone was at home.

This is the truth. I have been there and seen it first hand. There is no excuse for this type of exploitation. I really don't want to see anyone else get hurt by this company.

Your son? You sound like someone on the inside telling another story at a meeting rather than a real father.

I don't believe you.

I've heard everything you just said a million times over. I've repeated, like a good cult robot, those same things. Every rally and leaders meeting we ever went to all sound just like what you wrote.

Whether you are real or NOT --- I DON'T CARE !!!

You still have NO WAY OF KNOWING what the real scoop is or our experiences. There is so much your "son" doesn't even know!

Read our site or REAL insight!! We have many other ex-owners and veterans in the business.

Either you're a fool or a fake.

Which is it?

Your son is one of the very few. Now he puts others what he went through. Only most will fail. I'm glad for you - but sorry for the many who will get put through the ringer. How do you think the parents of all the people that get taken advantage by that mlm scam feel?

I am the father of a DSMAX rep. 2 and 1/2 years ago when my son became a DSmax rep and came home talking about the door to door sales to businesses and other "juicy" things he was learning and doing, a RED FLAg went off and I said son you gotta get the hell out of that place, they are gonna get over on you. He was very persistant and said he was gonna try it for a while and see where it would get him. After a few months he lost his apt. and began to live with some other guys in the business with him. I begged him to come home and get a real job and all he ever said was Dad if you just do what everyone else does you will only get what everyone else gets and thats not good enough for me.

He struggled losing crews and even lost his car. It got to a point where i actually went to his owner and threatened to bash his face good if he didnt fire my son but it did not work. I was very disapointed especially when i found he was leaving to another city to help someone else open up an office. I talked to him on the phone every week or so and told him come home but he just said Dad i know it seems like a bunch a crap but im to a point now where i have nothing to lose and im really getting good at this.

I investigated further on the business and found about the begining how they sold products for more and all the bad things about and again my son said "Dad if i were standing in a pile of crap to my knees, and all i ever did was complain and stare at the crap i'd never look up and see that there was a way out of it." I lost hope and said he'll learn. After 8 months of being in the business he called me up and said "DAD im coming back to Florida," I was excited and said son im so glad youve came to your senses. He said no dad to start my own business. Sure enough he did, he was incorperated and had his own office and was doing well for a few months, until he called me and told me he had failed and was very negative in his bank account.

I encouraged him to come work for the business i had worked for, for 15 years, he said Dad every success story is riddled with failure this is just a slip, not a fall. Me and my wife by now were tired of worrying and just let it go. He went back to work for another office with a successful VP and 9 weeks later called and said Dad ive learned so much im ready to try it again. And he did. Only this time he worked harder and had a plan,he told me.

Sure enough in just a few months he was extremely happy making alot more money than me and my wife together, and i was happier to see what he had accomplished. He brought some of his workers over for thanksgiving and birthdays and they were so friendly and all so excited. Its funny because after a year of his second office, he has promoted 3 of those same boys who ate with us into offices of there own, and now when he brings guys to visit I tell them stick with it. he has taught me so much on how to look at life and not to be in the pack of sheep who work for other people and i now own my own home improvement business which he often helps me with ideas on advertising and keeping it safe from freud and lawsuits.

He explained that the independant distributors in his office is no different than the person who independantly contracts his own work through a labor pool. My wife handles all of his financial obligations through her accounting background and we are all much more open minded and positive now. Yes he still works very long hours, yes he still travels to many different cities to help others but any one who successfully owns a business does work alot. i know i do to.

ALL In all yes 90% of people fail at his business but i am glad because if they hadnt, there would be no room for him to be there, and they wouldnt have learned from others mistakes.
Les Brown says= a bamboo tree seed takes 5 years to break the surface of the ground, but when it does it can grow 90 feet in a few months, if you planted one in your lawn and told everyone you were watering that spot so your bamboo tree would grow, after a year they would call you an idiot and say there was no bamboo tree gonna grow there.

When it finally does break the surface they would be like d**n he WAS right. well if my son had stopped watering his bamboo tree (dreams and goals) he would have lost all chances of success and came to work with me in a business that has now had to lay off many many people, and he would not have just bought himself a new house and truck and all his other toys. And i am very sure he will go even further with the attitude he has gained from his DSMAX experience.

IT is not a business for the weak, but i do know this my sons investment in time, money, energy, sweat, is by far 300% worth the gain due to his sacrifices. I now understand all those things he said and why he would only surround himself with people who were pushing for success, because you adapt the attitude of those around you. i do not think dsmax is a cult, and we laugh at that, however yes i do think they change the way you think, THANK GOD!

My son will probably retire by the age of forty with alot of money, i still visit his office and the music and atmosphere of people constantly talking about goals, success, happy excited things. The word juice is stupid to me but its funny. I know alot more about the company as a whole and now see how they license a name brand and put it on a product and they are good deals. I am by far not brain washed and if i am and dont know it i am glad, because i now try to look for a positve to everything. So should you.

If it weren't for your products people wouldn't have Christmas???? Wow, you really are brainwashed. I'll have you know that every single item that DS Max (and affiliate companies such as Granton Marketing, DD America, Cydcor, etc) sells can be found in a 99 cent store. And guess what, it's only 99 cents to buy!!!!

You might not know this, but Larry Tannenbaum buys from the same manufacturers who sell to 99 cent stores. He actually directly sells to 99 cent stores!!! He, and every DS Max owner, deliberatly raises prices to sell door to door. Many 99 cent store owners actually buy from DS Max for about 30-40 cents wholesale per item.

Wow, can you believe that you sell it to people for $5? Thats about a 250% markup. Wow, you really save people alot of money. Good for you. Maybe people would actually save more money at Christmas if they buy the same crap that they're buying from you for $5 at the 99 cent store.

If it weren't for your products people wouldn't have Christmas???? Wow, you really are brainwashed. I'll have you know that every single item that DS Max (and affiliate companies such as Granton Marketing, DD America, Cydcor, etc) sells can be found in a 99 cent store. And guess what, it's only 99 cents to buy!!!!

You might not know this, but Larry Tannenbaum buys from the same manufacturers who sell to 99 cent stores. He actually directly sells to 99 cent stores!!! He, and every DS Max owner, deliberatly raises prices to sell door to door. Many 99 cent store owners actually buy from DS Max for about 30-40 cents wholesale per item.

Wow, can you believe that you sell it to people for $5? Thats about a 250% markup. Wow, you really save people alot of money. Good for you. Maybe people would actually save more money at Christmas if they buy the same crap that they're buying from you for $5 at the 99 cent store.

If it weren't for your products people wouldn't have Christmas???? Wow, you really are brainwashed. I'll have you know that every single item that DS Max (and affiliate companies such as Granton Marketing, DD America, Cydcor, etc) sells can be found in a 99 cent store. And guess what, it's only 99 cents to buy!!!!

You might not know this, but Larry Tannenbaum buys from the same manufacturers who sell to 99 cent stores. He actually directly sells to 99 cent stores!!! He, and every DS Max owner, deliberatly raises prices to sell door to door. Many 99 cent store owners actually buy from DS Max for about 30-40 cents wholesale per item.

Wow, can you believe that you sell it to people for $5? Thats about a 250% markup. Wow, you really save people alot of money. Good for you. Maybe people would actually save more money at Christmas if they buy the same crap that they're buying from you for $5 at the 99 cent store.

If it weren't for your products people wouldn't have Christmas???? Wow, you really are brainwashed. I'll have you know that every single item that DS Max (and affiliate companies such as Granton Marketing, DD America, Cydcor, etc) sells can be found in a 99 cent store. And guess what, it's only 99 cents to buy!!!!

You might not know this, but Larry Tannenbaum buys from the same manufacturers who sell to 99 cent stores. He actually directly sells to 99 cent stores!!! He, and every DS Max owner, deliberatly raises prices to sell door to door. Many 99 cent store owners actually buy from DS Max for about 30-40 cents wholesale per item.

Wow, can you believe that you sell it to people for $5? Thats about a 250% markup. Wow, you really save people alot of money. Good for you. Maybe people would actually save more money at Christmas if they buy the same crap that they're buying from you for $5 at the 99 cent store.

This is not for everyone some do some dont,And thats fine. But don't blame the company if you dont. Its not something to be ashamed of, move on find your calling and let those of who have made it live there lifes. If it wasnt for those guys with the toys, books for 80% off, there wouldn't be christmas for alot of people. Have a safe and happy New Years.

There are two good things about your response. 1) You are sticking up for your son. 2) Your son is one of the very few who made it. I congratulate you. Enjoy the material benefits of it.

Like Abby said, you dont know about the bad side. You dont see the people that put in months and sometimes years of work for nothing. You dont understand how the psychology of the company will turn you against those you love how you will come to choose the company over everything.

Dont say that we arent open minded. The problem is we had open minds and tried the business out. Our curiosity killed us. When you fail at DS-Max, very often it is because you are financially destitute. You are on Commission. You are paying money out to new reps you want to be on your crew, transportation and taxes. We trusted our selves and the people that run DS-Max to give all we had to try and make it. We made less money than most people make, accepted a lower standard of living and divested ourselves of things that we didnt need. We lost cars, apartments, significant others and distanced ourselves from family members. We believed in the hype and got bitten.

Now we warn others!

I pity your daughter. You see, even after I quit I was initially defensive of the company. I thought that their might have been something wrong with me for not being able to make it. I needed to be distanced from DS-Max to finally understand how evil it was. Then I came to my senses and felt like a schmuck for being brainwashed as long as I was.

Your daughter will have little space to vent her anger. With a brother as successful as hers in the company there will be no arguing. Furthermore, you are won over. DS-Max people specialize in being able to promote bad things in a positive way. They are great at creating small areas where the only belief that is allowed to exist is that of total dedication to DS-Max. They can take any bad situation, change the wording, and make it seem like the best thing that ever happened.

I never said that these guys were not good at motivating and selling people. They started by selling pots and pans out of cars. The goods were more expensive than those sold in stores. The products sucked, they just used enthusiasm.

What kind of an ethical person sells and trains others to sell an inferior product that can be bought for cheaper in stores?

If such people ran a global business what would it be like?

People get mislead into believing that they will gain financial independence by blindly trusting in the DS-Max marketing system. When you start out you are encouraged to ask lots of questions that only relate to succeeding through company. They tell you up front in meetings that there are no guarantees, but at the same time giving up on your self and all your dreams that commitment to DS-max is going to accomplish for you is portrayed as total failure. Reps that have been around awhile are always told to forget all there problems and just focus on what they have to do to succeed in the business.

They create their mini atmospheres where only more sales and more dedication to the growth of the company are accepted. Any contrary beliefs to this get weeded out or drowned out by the loud music. Ever wonder why the music is always playing and people are always pitching each other in your sons offices? Ever wonder what happens to people who dissent? Do you think it is mistake why there are so many chants and songs in the meetings?

The workers, on average, make next to nothing. There are always a few high rollers but that is it. But managers promote that every one is working together to build their business and on their way to financial independence. Impassioned meetings are staged where people give bleeding heart speeches about how they sacrificed to get ahead. Not even 1 percent of applicants succeed to ownership and of them; a lot drop out in the first year. Remember what I said about how these people can take the worst sounding scenarios and make them sound great?

They make people feel that they are part of a great family. A community. For the wayward souls in society it can mean instant friends as long as you adopt the psychology heart and soul give up on your relationships with everyone who might see contrary and SELL, SELL, SELL! Other wise you get terminated.

They take people that have never worked commission before, train them, put them out and expect them to sink or swim. Then, if you get half way decent, you have to train everyone to sell like you do. This also implies you parting with either some or all of your hard earned income every day to support a rep that will more than likely quit soon and walk away with your money.

The good things about Ds-max: sales experience and learning how to read and evaluate other people. Nothing else. Because even if you succeed and be a VP you know that you are supported by 1000s of people that are brainwashed into believing that they can attain financial independence by going door to door and coercing unsuspecting people to be on their sales crew.

You will preach an opportunity that very few will get and many will sacrifice lots for and end up financially devastated for trying. And the odds are that you will not succeed with DS-Max. And then who wants to hire a solicitor?

Hello Everyone... I was e-mailed this "Rip-Off" report from a friend because that friend "KNEW" My son was involved with DS-MAX, and, I was initially shocked with the bad reports about this company. But after thinking about it I chose to reply because I think the OBJECTIVE observer needs to make an educated decision on what to really believe.

For starters, My son's life has completely changed because of the opportunities this company has given him a chance to take advantage of. He currently is earning over a quarter of a million dollars annually, owes a penny to no one (nothing he owns is financed by a bank), living a life that I only thought possible of celebrities and lottery winners. Sounds to good to be true right...?

I too thought it was a SCAM when he came home after his "Day Of Observation" talking about this company that could make him financially independent, and I begged him to reconsider, but in the end he and DS-MAX were the one with the "I told You So's".

I have been privilaged to watch him open up 10 sales locations this year and give them away to 22 managers here in the midwest. These managers range in the age from 19 to 53 and after seeing what they are earning, would make anyone consider going "Door to Door".

How can anyone argue with results like that! So I have to say that I turned from doubter to believer just because my son was willing to do what many of you, and I were not willing to do. "WORK HARDER and believe harder in possiblities not gaurantees"

Just for the record my daughter also worked with the company and after a year gave it up. But it wasn't the company's fault for holding her back or promising things it couldn't deliver... It was her decision to quit and work for the next 40 years like her mother.

Thank You!

Hello Everyone... I was e-mailed this "Rip-Off" report from a friend because that friend "KNEW" My son was involved with DS-MAX, and, I was initially shocked with the bad reports about this company. But after thinking about it I chose to reply because I think the OBJECTIVE observer needs to make an educated decision on what to really believe.

For starters, My son's life has completely changed because of the opportunities this company has given him a chance to take advantage of. He currently is earning over a quarter of a million dollars annually, owes a penny to no one (nothing he owns is financed by a bank), living a life that I only thought possible of celebrities and lottery winners. Sounds to good to be true right...?

I too thought it was a SCAM when he came home after his "Day Of Observation" talking about this company that could make him financially independent, and I begged him to reconsider, but in the end he and DS-MAX were the one with the "I told You So's".

I have been privilaged to watch him open up 10 sales locations this year and give them away to 22 managers here in the midwest. These managers range in the age from 19 to 53 and after seeing what they are earning, would make anyone consider going "Door to Door".

How can anyone argue with results like that! So I have to say that I turned from doubter to believer just because my son was willing to do what many of you, and I were not willing to do. "WORK HARDER and believe harder in possiblities not gaurantees"

Just for the record my daughter also worked with the company and after a year gave it up. But it wasn't the company's fault for holding her back or promising things it couldn't deliver... It was her decision to quit and work for the next 40 years like her mother.

Thank You!

Hello Everyone... I was e-mailed this "Rip-Off" report from a friend because that friend "KNEW" My son was involved with DS-MAX, and, I was initially shocked with the bad reports about this company. But after thinking about it I chose to reply because I think the OBJECTIVE observer needs to make an educated decision on what to really believe.

For starters, My son's life has completely changed because of the opportunities this company has given him a chance to take advantage of. He currently is earning over a quarter of a million dollars annually, owes a penny to no one (nothing he owns is financed by a bank), living a life that I only thought possible of celebrities and lottery winners. Sounds to good to be true right...?

I too thought it was a SCAM when he came home after his "Day Of Observation" talking about this company that could make him financially independent, and I begged him to reconsider, but in the end he and DS-MAX were the one with the "I told You So's".

I have been privilaged to watch him open up 10 sales locations this year and give them away to 22 managers here in the midwest. These managers range in the age from 19 to 53 and after seeing what they are earning, would make anyone consider going "Door to Door".

How can anyone argue with results like that! So I have to say that I turned from doubter to believer just because my son was willing to do what many of you, and I were not willing to do. "WORK HARDER and believe harder in possiblities not gaurantees"

Just for the record my daughter also worked with the company and after a year gave it up. But it wasn't the company's fault for holding her back or promising things it couldn't deliver... It was her decision to quit and work for the next 40 years like her mother.

Thank You!

Hello Everyone... I was e-mailed this "Rip-Off" report from a friend because that friend "KNEW" My son was involved with DS-MAX, and, I was initially shocked with the bad reports about this company. But after thinking about it I chose to reply because I think the OBJECTIVE observer needs to make an educated decision on what to really believe.

For starters, My son's life has completely changed because of the opportunities this company has given him a chance to take advantage of. He currently is earning over a quarter of a million dollars annually, owes a penny to no one (nothing he owns is financed by a bank), living a life that I only thought possible of celebrities and lottery winners. Sounds to good to be true right...?

I too thought it was a SCAM when he came home after his "Day Of Observation" talking about this company that could make him financially independent, and I begged him to reconsider, but in the end he and DS-MAX were the one with the "I told You So's".

I have been privilaged to watch him open up 10 sales locations this year and give them away to 22 managers here in the midwest. These managers range in the age from 19 to 53 and after seeing what they are earning, would make anyone consider going "Door to Door".

How can anyone argue with results like that! So I have to say that I turned from doubter to believer just because my son was willing to do what many of you, and I were not willing to do. "WORK HARDER and believe harder in possiblities not gaurantees"

Just for the record my daughter also worked with the company and after a year gave it up. But it wasn't the company's fault for holding her back or promising things it couldn't deliver... It was her decision to quit and work for the next 40 years like her mother.

Thank You!

http://www.msnusers.com/DSMAXTheAftermath

So why did you stay in as long as you did? The company has a work load that sucks. The job is hard. But one thing they always do - is give disclosure.



I could not find the on line group for support. If it exists I'd sure like to know it.



There are some unscrupulous offices out there. I got lucky - I was with owners that were good people. I am sorry you had that experience.



People do succeed in that business. I'd not discourage anyone from trying it. But people have to leave if they don't make it. You have to be honest with your self and just quit and not hope that you'll change into the rich tycoon that they promote you will be.



What hurts the most are how I affected other people. Another unscrupulous owner got a hold of my crew. Hurt me, but not my crew! And then they had me selling illegitimate travel packages. I still wince when I think how many people I ripped off. How many times I would ask a manager If a thing still worked - be assured it did - and go out and sell some more.



And AT&T you got what you deserved. You contracted us to sell your service door to door and fired your own employees. Then you wondered why some of the people that signed were fraudulently signed up by bad reps (not by me - I was too honest - that is why I lasted as long as I did). You fired the people that cared about your products and payed peanuts to those who had little interest in looking out for you or your customers.