Complaint Review: Earnhardt Ford

People who are in the business of cheating others don't like to think about this.



They try to rely on the fact that they are so superior to the suckers they cheat every day.



True, you may be able to swindle your customers with a phony car purchase. I'll give you that much.



But, it doesn't take a lot of intelligence or negotiation skill to come back with a gun and pull the trigger while it's pointing at you.



Any idiot can do that.



So, the only question left is when will that happen?



Never? That's what you're hoping for, right?



Of course, you do realize that you're betting your life here, right?



You see, frauds tend to overlook this aspect of their scam. They actually think they have found a source of easy money. They assume they can just go on cheating one sucker after another for the rest of their lives.



Actually, they can do that. As long as they realize that the end of their life can happen at any time. At work, maybe. All it will take is one angry victim.



It all comes down to life choices, really.



You can take an honest job that doesn't involve cheating others and doesn't pay very much. In a job like that, you will live a long life and end up dying of old age or boredom.



Or, you can take a dishonest job that involves cheating people out of as much money as you can get. That job pays better, but comes with a lot of risk. In a job like that, each new ripoff could be your last.



I'll tell you one thing. When your time is finally up, and you're down to your last 30 seconds of life, I've never seen anyone yet who isn't scared of what is awaiting them.



In those final moments, everyone would gladly trade all the money in the world for another few hours, or even another few minutes of life.



Once you take that into consideration, most intelligent people see that whatever money you make in the car business by cheating others simply isn't work the risk you take each day.



There's no such thing as a free lunch or easy money. If you think you are making easy money, you are just failing to see the risks involved.



Of course, those risks will still be there, whether you acknowledge them or not.

OK, Paul, now you're scaring me. I really, really, REALLY hope this is just heavy duty trolling.



Your command of the English language is impeccable, better than 99.9% of the stuff I see around here. There were a few minor mistakes, but why quibble. You did a great job of putting us inside the mind of a desperate, hopeless man about to explode. This is the wrong venue, but good writing all the same.



This was just an exercise in story writing, right Paul? Right?



Ever think about moving to Tupper Lake?

First, let me say that I advocate working within the legal system if at all possible. After all, what if everyone simply took out a weapon and proceeded to kill or injure others every time something didn't work out as planned? What kind of world would that turn out to be?



But, in the case of auto dealers, the legal system seems to have failed the very people it is supposed to protect. For example, let's use this typical car dealer scam to help you better understand how they manage to get away with cheating customers year in and year out.



Suppose that you venture onto a local dealer lot to purchase a new truck for yourself. You bring in a six year old vehicle with the intention of using as a trade-in. In addition, you also have managed to save up another $3,000 in funds that you intend to use. So, you are coming in with something of value. You're not one of those people who comes in looking for something for nothing.



After several test-drives you find a vehicle that will meet your needs. You begin the contracts with the intention of making a purchase. Now, assume that you have reasonable credit. You paid your bills on time. That means you can expect around a 7% interest rate on your auto loan. And, coincidentally, that is the number that you're offered by the finance department.



You write the dealership a check for your $3,000 payment. They accept it. As for the trade-in, they make an offer of a few thousand dollars. Not great, but certainly all that you can expect for a six year old truck with close to 90,000 miles on it.



After looking over your contract, you see that you will be financing close to $25,000 at an interest rate of 7%. The total of all payments due is listed. It's a lot of money, no doubt about it. But, it is the price of owning a new vehicle today.



You drive away, content in the fact that you now have a nice new shiny vehicle that is much better than the old one you were used too. At this point, you realize that you have taken on a considerable debt, but overall you are satisfied with the deal.



Unfortunately, that happy feeling soon ends when you arrive home one evening to find that the contract that you signed has become null and void. You get a call from the sales manager telling you to come back immediately and sign new forms for your new contract.



Upon arrival at the dealership, you quickly find that the interest rate you were promised is not going to happen. Instead of 7%, you will be getting 17%. For 6 years of payments! The difference will be thousands of dollars more!



And, it doesn't end there. No, sir! Now, the finance department demands another $4,000 in cash to make the deal happen. What the hell happened to the contract you signed? Wasn't that a binding agreement? Didn't the finance person who arranged your purchase tell you that everything is all done and that you now own the truck? What the hell happened to that promise?



Needless to say, you explain that you can't buy at these numbers. You hand them the keys to the new truck and ask for your old one back.



But, it doesn't work that way. Your trade-in is gone. Wholesaled. Supposedly, they got $800 for it. And, you won't be getting back the $3,000 you put down either. In fact, the finance guy goes on to explain that if you do not sign the contracts at the new, higher interest rate, they will be keeping your $3,000 and the $800 they got for your trade-in plus you will still owe them another $5,000 in costs for the use of the new vehicle that you took home. You see, now the truck you bought isn't new anymore. So, it can't be sold as new. Even though it only has 115 miles on it, they can only give you the value of a used truck back for it.



So, there's your deal. Either find another $4,000 in cash and hand it over. Plus agree to a 17% interest rate for the next 6 years, or else walk out with absolutely nothing. No down payment. No old truck. And, get this, now you have a loan for $5,000 on a new truck that you no longer have.



That's the deal that you're forced into! The finance manager comes in and explains it to you point blank. In fact, the a*****e treats you like he's going to kick your a*s. He comes up and pokes his finger in your chest and tells you how it is.



Look pal, here's how it's going to be. I don't care what the hell you need to do to get it, but you are going to go home and come back here with another $4,000 for me. And then, you are going to sit down here and sign the new contracts that we drew up. Do I make myself perfectly clear?



He pokes his finger into your chest to emphasize his point several times. Saliva comes out of his mouth as he spits out the words at you. The other finance people stand up by his side. The message is loud and clear. Open your mouth and try to argue and they'll all drag you out back and kick your a*s before they throw you the hell off their lot. This is no longer a car deal anymore. Now, it's turned into a strong-arm robbery.



Well, you leave and drive right over to the town police department office. They are sympathetic, but in the end they explain that there is nothing they can really do for you. No laws have been broken. They look over the old contract you were given and come to the conclusion that it is within the dealer's rights to change the finance numbers as they see fit.



In other words, they will not be doing anything for you. The officer at the desk walks you to the door and holds it open for you. Again, the message is perfectly clear. Don't come here and bother us because you aren't happy with your truck deal.



In the morning, you go down to the local courthouse and see about filing a small claims suit. Again, you get the bum's rush. The clerk agrees to take your filing fee, but first you must provide evidence of fraud. She tells you that the contract you have in your possession is not considered evidence of fraud. She walks you to the door and holds it open.



Now you're desperate. You go home and call a few attorneys that you find in the yellow pages. One offers to take your case for a retainer fee of $1,500 to start. He explains that he'll need more money as the case progresses. Another attorney is a bit more honest with you. This one explains that it is merely a financial matter concerning credit and that no court would offer you any chance to get out of the deal. After all, he explains, you did agree to buy the truck, didn't you?



You hang up the phone. Defeated. Broken. What can you do? You don't have the $4,000 that the dealer demands. In fact, the $3,000 that you did give them emptied your bank account except for the minimum needed to keep the account open. And, at 17% interest the monthly payments would be more than you could afford anyway.



What can you do? The police department shows you the door. The small claims lady acted like you were some crazy nut who was just bothering her. All the lawyers want is more money that you don't have.



So, what can you do? Where do you turn? Right now, you are renting. But you intended to buy a house this year. But, how will you be able to do that now with this credit problem? You started off with an old truck. Now, you have nothing. Your money is gone. Your old truck is gone.



You sit there and try to think. There has to be a way out of this. You pour yourself a shot of some whisky that you keep for when guests come over. A few hours later, you call your girlfriend at work. She is sympathetic, but unfortunately she simply doesn't have any money to loan you. After all, she is a single mother of a two year old daughter. There are months when her ex-husband simply forgets to send his child support. But, she lets it go because she knows that they have cut back everyone's hours down at the plant.



You thank her for her time just as she tells you that she has to be getting back to work now. A customer just walked in and her lunch break is over. She asks if you'll be OK and you tell her not to worry. Everything will be just fine, you say.



But, who are you kidding? Nothing is fine! Nothing will be fine! How could anything be fine? You're backed up against the wall! You got nowhere to go and nowhere left to turn! This is not fine! In fact, this is the complete opposite of fine! This is so un-fine that it's never going to be fine ever again!



As you're standing there gazing out your living-room window, you see that god-damned dog from next-door. Taking a s**t in your yard again! You told the neighbor about that! Hell, you live on a back road miles from town. The nearest neighbor is thousands of feet away. So, why can't he keep his dog in his own yard? Is that too much to ask? Is it too much for a man to have a clean front yard when he doesn't even have a dog? You know, people push you. They just keep pushing and pushing just to see how far you will go.



As you're thinking these words, you head out into the attached garage. The alcohol has fogged your brain somewhat. After all, you rarely drink anything. You gave up having a beer after work several years ago, when you went on the health and fitness plan.



As you slam open the garage door, a hammer drops off the wall and lands on top of your shoe. It's a rubber hammer. They call it a dead-blow hammer because it's filled with lead shot. Dead-blow. Huh? That's funny.



You look down at your feet now. You're outside in the yard. How did this happen? The dog is lying there. It's kind of yelping. Little, short yelps. Almost like a kitten. Yeah. A new-born kitten. A day or two old. Fresh out of the womb. That's the sound that the dog is making.



The dog is missing an eye. The empty socket is like a black cavity in the animal's head. The eye is hanging out, by a thread of tissue. All you did was hit the dog once. You really didn't put all your strength into it either. It's the dead-blow hammer. The d**n hammer. What is happening here?



You will have to remember to take it easy on the finance manager. What was his name again? Murphy, wasn't it? Yeah, that's how he came over and introduced himself. Mr. Murphy.



By now, it's almost dark and getting late in the day. How long were you sitting in the truck? Five cigarettes? Six, maybe? You look in your pocket and see that the whole pack is empty. Now, why would somebody put an empty cigarette box back in his shirt pocket? What sense does that make?



Isn't it strange, the things that go through your mind at a time like this? I mean, what is the purpose of your life? Why do you get up and go to work each day? What is your place in this universe? Will you die today? Were you ever really alive to begin with, or was this whole thing only a dream?



No more drinks. You need to be clear-headed for what comes next. You get out of the truck and go back inside. Revolver. Three-fifty seven magnum. Dirty-Harry. No, Callahan always carried a forty-four. Either way, this will do fine. Don't forget the hammer. Dead-blow hammer, you giggle to yourself.



As you walk back out to the truck, you notice that the dog is gone now. Not moving. Flies are in its mouth. BOOM! The bullet splatters into the rib cage. BOOM! Now, the head is gone. d**n, you didn't even aim. Well, how hard can it be to hit something that's eight feet away? Practice shots. The time will come soon for the real thing. And, now you know that you can do it. You got what it takes. No hesitation. No mercy. Destiny. I'm mr f**king destiny come down to pay my bill!



Alright, now you're going. The truck is in gear and heading down the road. I'm going to see Mr. Murphy. I got your money, pal. Pal. Old-buddy. Yeah, we're gonna dance tonight old buddy! Just you and me and the one-eyed dog.



It's funny how people go from sane and rational and going to work and paying their taxes and the electric bill like a normal person. Funny how that can all change in an instant. I mean, who would think? Yesterday morning you got up and went to work and showed your co-workers your new truck. You made plans for the weekend. Maybe some fishing out at the lake. Didn't the county just stock it with new fish recently? What were they? Trout? Hell, I don't know. Either way, it would have been a fun weekend out with your friends.



But, now that's all gone. All gone. Gone, gone, gone! Now you're heading down to the dealership with the intention of killing most of the people there. There, you said it! See? You said it! No fear. You have what it takes. BOOM! The truck's passenger side window is gone. The glass pieces blow away in the wind. Almost there now. Gotta be cool. Let's get it together. Remember, no mercy. We're gonna dance.



And, there he is. Mr. Murphy. Alright! What's that expression they always use? Cocked and locked? Wait, isn't that just for 45 automatics? Why do they even say that? Why would you want it to be locked? What sense does that make?



You're inside now. You're walking in slow motion. A dream. Is this all a dream? And, what about my cigarettes? d**n, I knew I forgot something! Even a condemned man is entitled to a last smoke, right? You grab a Marlboro from the red box on the girl's desk. What does she do here? Receptionist? Clerk? She's young. Maybe 18 or 19. Still seated in her office chair. She pushes back frantically with her feet, away from you. Eyes wide. Shaking. For a moment, you make eye contact. Little girl. Frantic girl. Pleading girl. Begging with her eyes. Are those tinted contacts? Pretty blue. But, she's not the one. Life will go on.



But, for you, it's up the stairs. Two at a time. That's because you're here on a mission. We're gonna dance. You and me mr car dealership owner. And, let's not forget the one-eyed dog. He would have wanted it that way. Dogs make good pets. If he were here now, he'd bite this nasty car dealer owner. Sic em boy. Show these car people that I mean business.



Look, this is a big misunderstanding, pal. Please! I got a wife and two kids. He's pleading now too. Funny, he seems almost calm. Nervous, but calm, in a detached sort of way. Too calm for a man seconds away from death. But, that's OK, because you're calm too. Where are you gonna go? I mean, after the dance? Where are you gonna go? How many bullets are left? Let's see, one went out the window. Two more for Mr. Murphy. That's three. And, now two more for the dealership owner. Is he gone? Yeah, he's gone. Just like the one-eyed dog. His head's missing. You know, you really should have gone hunting when you had the chance. You're pretty d**n good. I mean, considering that you aren't even aiming or anything.



So, what have we got left? One bullet. And, it's got your name on it. What the hell, you were there to dance anyway! It's funny. Here you are, moments away from your own death, and yet you have never felt more alive. Every sense. So in touch with the world. You hear everything. The subtle nuances. So, this is how it all works, huh? You can feel the end of the barrel as you press it up against your temple. At your feet, you hear the owner gurgle for a second. As you look down at him, you see your own reflection in the window glass behind his desk. What is your last thought? God d**n! I left the garage door open. You were in such a hurry to rush right down here that you left the d**n garage door open!



In your next life, you really need to remember to be more careful. After all, that's how burglaries happen, right? How can a man keep control of his kingdom if he goes around leaving every garage door open? You really need to make a note of that so you won't forget next time.

Denial



the fact of the matter is this, at first you dont mind a salesperson doing there job, we know there job is to sell you a car, and we know they dont make money until they do, and we dont mind them showing us cars, small talk, and asking us questions, when are you looking to buy a car, we dont go to the dealership for fun and games, we either go the dealership to look "do homework educate ourselves by looking" or we go to buy to see if we can get a good deal,



But salesman and salesmanagers dont respect us when we say we are just looking and we are not looking to purchase a car, I understand that some customers just say that, but GIVE THEM SPACE, DONT BREATH ON THEM, BACK OFF..



A GOOD CAR SALESMAN IS ONE WHO IS STREET SMART, yes you can make a deal you can make some jokes to calm the shopper, but dont go in for the kill, let people not your not a haraser,

i consider what alot of car salesman do is the same as RAPE,

YOU TELL THEM NO, THEN THEY PUT YOUR ARM ON YOU, YOU TELL THEM TO STOP, THEN THEY PUT THERE LEG ON YOU......... FINALLY YOUR SCREWED AND KEPT HOSTAGE.................. your in totally shock and you dont know what hit you,

thats the problem i have with carsales people,

1) never tell them anything, if your going to buy never give them 2 much info,

they are just a salesperson, look at them patheticly like there a salesperson at block buster trying to make you pay a late fee when they are not suppose to have any,



2) never give the sales person ammo.. power.



3) think of them like they think of you



4) next time you buy a car, let the car salesman know you think they are worse than a coackroach,

show them body language like f..... off,.



lift your hand up, let them finch then laugh

the idea is reverse it, put them through hell, and let at them. not the other way around,

car salesman need you more than you need them,

W from Mesa, can you have them post a copy of that "Business Card" on this site? I'm up for a great laugh!



And to everyone else, yeah, car dealerships, new or used are nothing but snakes, liars, cheaters and will do just about everything except stick a gun to your head to get you to buy their cars.

I am not even going to go into the whole experience I had with earnhardt except to mention how shady my experience was with a couple experiences. 1) I mentioned how much I could buy a car from another dealers ad, salesmen in the parking lot said wow we cannot do that. I talked to fleet manager who said I am sorry about that, the salesmen are dumb and we can beat any othe dealers price, we are bigger. 2) My initial salesmen said he was brand new and needed a sale. 3) When the salesmen was proving in inadequate an intermediary (wheeling and dealing gopher) came in as a go between... between myself and the sales "boss". At one point the intermediary told the salesmen to shut up. The intermediary would work the numbers in such a fashion as to say well how bout a $700 dollar payment. I would say um, no do better. Then he would say well I have to talk to my boss and stand there as if it meant he would get the plague. I said so, go talk to your boss. he came back and said I can lower your payments 100 dollars a month and I noticed all he had done is extend the loan from 5 years to 6 years but he did not mention that. I said you did nothing for me, do better. Then again he said but I will have to talk to my boss. I said to him, "does your boss charge you $10 dollars or something everytime you talk to him? Go get him, im not dealing with you anymore jacka$$". Then the boss came and amazingly we were already in the bosses cubicle. This is the hilarious part.... He had the gall to point to pictures on the wall of his 5 kids and say buying a car from me is like putting food in my kids mouth. When I could not reach an agreement on a price he said well here is my card, which happened to be a full size sheet of paper with pictures of his wife and kids on it and the caption read, "5 reasons to buy a car from me".

All i ever hear about car dealers is negative remarks, The car dealer is not scum, they take your keys while they appraise the vehicle then lead you on for hours ( I find that hard to believe, I have been in the wholesale, and retail car business for about 5 years now. This kind of thing just don't happen, the only time you ever hear a consumer complain about the way they are treated at a car dealership is when the dealer will not put $6,000.00 in a car that is worth about $2,000.00, and they are probally belly up in, or the customer comes up there knowing they have smashed credit spend a couple of hours up there and the dealer can not get them financed( then the consumer drags the dealer through the mud because they are taking out there frustation on the dealer. And that is wrong!)I have read a couple of these rip off reports and I mean some seem ligit but about the Joe Verde Or Big Gross, that is crazy.



Someone goes to school to learn computer programming is that wrong? no. But send a sales represenative to Joe Verde to learn sales tactics and then they are ball breaking car dealers then.



In conclusion, open your own dealership buy the cars, get the cars ready, pay the bills , insure the cars, fix the cars when they tear up. And then ask yourself would you really take any less( be honest)



David - Boaz, Alabama

U.S.A.

I too was a victim of Earnhardt's tactics to include the hours of interrogation, unable to leave, keys to my vehicle "hidden" or "lost."



However I decided at that time to get educated and NEVER let it happen to me again. You folks are on your way by reading what not to do on this site. I recently bought a new truck from another dealer in the valley and had a great experience. I am not a salesman or affilaited with any dealer but just another buyer who was educated by the school of Earnhardt's Hard Knocks. Here are some helpful tips that lead me to two recent great purchase experiences:



1. DON'T EVER let them know what you want your payment to be. They can be creative and will make anything work. They also know if you say you can handle a payment at $400, they can get you to $475 to $500. The numbers will fall in place if you follow the rest of these tips.



2. DON'T EVER let them know upfront what you owe on your trade. You better know how much you owe (within $50) as this information will be a great negotiating tool. Also, know how much your trade is worth. If Retail is $14k and Wholesale is $9k, expect to get not much more than $9k but you don't need to take less. Make sure the numbers you are talking about are "ACV" Actual Cash value." Be realistic though. You are not giving them a car in "Excellent" condition. If you want $12k for your car, sell it yourself. Consider the low trade in as a service charge for them taking your car and selling it for you. Believe it or not, they don't look at it as you doing them a favor by giving them the opportunity to make a few extra bucks on your car.



3. As you have seen from previous posts, know what your credit score is. Take care of your credit also. If you have a 585 FICA score and expect less than 10% financing, good luck. But you need to know what your score is BEFORE walking into their office. Pay the $15 each and pull all three with your FICA score. With this information in hand, you can refuse to let them pull your credit until the negotiations are over. Remember, every time a dealer pulls your credit, it the score goes down. Make the deal, then pull credit.



4. Negotiate in sections. Either work the trade first or work the new vehicle first. Come to an agreement on the trade, seal that deal, then talk about the new truck. But never at the same time. Earnhardts told me they were giving me $24k for my trade in but when I got into finance and looked at the final paperwork, They actually only gave me $17k. What they "meant" to say was they would pay off my trade but "forgot" to say that $7k was getting rolled into my new loan. They can confuse the facts and slurr numbers. Once you come to an agreement on the price for each separately, the numbers (payments) will naturally fall in your favor.



5. Don't let the Finance Manager play the Rate game with you. The "Rate Game" goes somethig like this. "OK, I have you approved at 18.9% with a payment of $600 per month." As you freak out, he says, "OR, I have a loan that is 8.5% and 'comes' with an extended warranty, and your payment is only $520." This is his way of selling you a $1600 warranty while making you feel better about it. Make sure you look at the amount financed at the bottom of the contract. Don't let ANYTHING get slipped in. If you don't want it, make them take it out retype it. Recheck the contract carefully after he is finished with the new one and look at every line again.



6. Leave if you have to take time to think about the deal. If you are feeling overwhelmed, tell them you need to go have a Coke and discuss the deal away from the dealership. Tell them you are hungary and need to eat. If they say they cannot hold the car for you, tell them it is OK, there are other dealers with the same vehicle that would. They'll hold it.



7. If you have a neighbor that is a car salesman or a finance manager, invite him over for a BBQ and beer and ASK QUESTIONS!



I bought my recent truck at Lou Grubb and I broke down the negotiations into 6 x 1 hour sessions. I gave them 1 hour to get as far as we could and I would leave at the exact time I told them. Take your time. YOU are the customer. They absolutely HATE people who could "give or take" the deal or car. They want you so passionate about that car that you would do or sign anything to get it.



Most of what I see here is a bunch of people who had good intentions to buy a car but had a bad experience due dealer problems such as bad sales behavior, finance tweaking, etc. However, I also see buyers who are uneducated and walk out paying $52,000 for a Montero and asking "what happened" weeks later.



Personally, with the deal I first got from Earnhardt's, I would have rather given them my $1000 down payment, had them kicked me in the crotch and we'd call it even.



Actually, what really amuses me, is the guy who got hosed by "the bull" and went back to buy a second car. What are you thinking?



I hope this was at least a little helpful.

-- Steve--

As of 6.24.04 there are gates still up to get into Earnhardt Ford in Chandler AZ! The spiked tire shredders are also still there! But only going out of the dealership.



My boyfirend had went to 5 other ford dealerships to find the F250 of his liking. But nobody had any in stock. On an off chance we went to Earnhardts in Chandler and we were stopped at the gates to get in. The have a guard and several salesmen waiting in there guard gates to "help" you find what you wanted. Needless to say we did buy a truck that day....found one that he wanted and took it home that day.



We DID NOT TRADE IN another vehicle. DO not give anyone your keys to do an appraisal. They dont need your keys to do that! All they need is to see the car and the vin and milage to get an appraisal. We never trade anything in becuase it is to your disadvantage everytime! The both of us work in the car industry and we know all the tricks of the sales dept!



All they want is your money and as much of it as they can get! Be a smart consumer and go looking for a car with a plan so that you have the upper hand when purchasing your next car or truck! Know what you want before hand....how much it is (go onto the manufacturers web sites and see)....know your credit score (pull a credit report with score on line).....dont trade anything in (most dealerships will whole sale your trade in anyways if its over a few years old and has over 50k miles on it-they dont want to sell it on thier lots!)......always know that the best time to buys a car is at the end of the month (crunch time for all sales depts...they will almost give you the car just to get one more number sold on the books).



Bottom line is dont take any thing from a sales team! If you dont like what is going on.....scream at the top of your lungs in front of other customers....if they are holding your keys hostage or other similar situations.....scream your head off!!!! they will do anything at that point to get you out of there! Remember they are there to sell a car with the most profit that they can get out of you and most of their tactics are not illegal. Be smart and do you reasearch before you go into any car dealership!

We bought a truck from a dealership up here in Minnesota in 1996 and they had my husband (then boyfriend of 19) sign a bunch of paperwork. Being youn and trusting he didn't read it all. Turns out, they told him that he was getting 9% interest rate and he signed for 9% and 19%! Well, you can guess which one he paid for! We have BOTH sets of paperwork to prove it too.



I went to the attorney general of Minnesota and told him that I thought that the dealerships might just be getting kickbacks for higher interest rates. The attorney general sent the complaint to the dealership and they sent us a response that denied it and called my allegations "rediculous". The attorney general let the whole thing drop. I was furious. It cost us $19,000 to pay off a 1993 Ford Ranger Splash!



In 2003 I saw a story on Dateline about the same thing and I was screaming at the television. SOME dealers do get kickbacks for signing higher interest rates. Look at the Dateline archives, I'm sure it's there.



So, I tried to tell someone that this was happening. I tried telling the Attorney General's office. NOTHING HAPPENED!!!!



Good info Stick!

I have to agree with jerome!! If someone takes you hostage, take them hostage. I had this happen to me at a honda dealership. After not recieving my keys back i stood up and walked behind closed doors to the manager station. they told me many times that i was not allowed back there. I ignored them and found my keys. i walked out without saying a word. stand up for yourself and refuse to be held against your will.



as for the handgun, never get a handgun unless you know the ramification for using one. This is not a toy used to intimidate salemen. I do have a CCW and have carried my weapon onto car lots and will attest to being treated differently. i also, however, stand up for myself and do not let anyone push me around.



lastly, my girlfriend is in about to sue Earnhardt dodge division for shady practices. this company is also 5 star, which means nothing. i would highly recommend shoping elsewhere and over the internet.

I would like to thank Jon-erik for his rather enlightening response to the thread on Earnhardts. If any comment on this sight proves what rather unsavory characters car salesmen(car sales peoople, I think not. People is not a term to be used for those in that profession) are this is the one.



So they run the town of Gilbert, AZ? They laugh in the face of the police? I am sure that many media outlets in the Phoenix metro area would LOVE to hear that. I am also sure that car salesmen care about the people they are dealing with(yeah right). Talk about outlandish.



That has to be the biggest crock of BULL I have ever heard. Yes, I am sure you get to laugh and smile. I am also sure that this is behind the consumers backs. You may not hide behind a computer but you and your kind hide none the less.



Remember you better hope Jesus loves you...

I would like to thank Jon-erik for his rather enlightening response to the thread on Earnhardts. If any comment on this sight proves what rather unsavory characters car salesmen(car sales peoople, I think not. People is not a term to be used for those in that profession) are this is the one.



So they run the town of Gilbert, AZ? They laugh in the face of the police? I am sure that many media outlets in the Phoenix metro area would LOVE to hear that. I am also sure that car salesmen care about the people they are dealing with(yeah right). Talk about outlandish.



That has to be the biggest crock of BULL I have ever heard. Yes, I am sure you get to laugh and smile. I am also sure that this is behind the consumers backs. You may not hide behind a computer but you and your kind hide none the less.



Remember you better hope Jesus loves you...

I would like to thank Jon-erik for his rather enlightening response to the thread on Earnhardts. If any comment on this sight proves what rather unsavory characters car salesmen(car sales peoople, I think not. People is not a term to be used for those in that profession) are this is the one.



So they run the town of Gilbert, AZ? They laugh in the face of the police? I am sure that many media outlets in the Phoenix metro area would LOVE to hear that. I am also sure that car salesmen care about the people they are dealing with(yeah right). Talk about outlandish.



That has to be the biggest crock of BULL I have ever heard. Yes, I am sure you get to laugh and smile. I am also sure that this is behind the consumers backs. You may not hide behind a computer but you and your kind hide none the less.



Remember you better hope Jesus loves you...

I would like to thank Jon-erik for his rather enlightening response to the thread on Earnhardts. If any comment on this sight proves what rather unsavory characters car salesmen(car sales peoople, I think not. People is not a term to be used for those in that profession) are this is the one.



So they run the town of Gilbert, AZ? They laugh in the face of the police? I am sure that many media outlets in the Phoenix metro area would LOVE to hear that. I am also sure that car salesmen care about the people they are dealing with(yeah right). Talk about outlandish.



That has to be the biggest crock of BULL I have ever heard. Yes, I am sure you get to laugh and smile. I am also sure that this is behind the consumers backs. You may not hide behind a computer but you and your kind hide none the less.



Remember you better hope Jesus loves you...

OK Jon-erikinGilbert, Now it's my turn. I at one time sold cars in the valley and I have a few things to tell you. From what you wrote, "I FEEL" you might be a "GREEN PEA" So I will go real easy on you.



A local law firm hires me when they have a law suit involving car dealers and car buyers. I have seen so much crap that many local car dealers like to do just to get MO MONEY from the car buyer. Here is a small list of CURRENT SCAMS for you to chew on.



1. Market Value Adjustment stickers on new cars. These MVA stickers are attach to the new car MSRP's they are the same color as the car maker's MSRP. You know try to make it look like the car maker had something to do with it. Mr. Car salesman, does your car dealer do this? tell the truth! I will know if you lie about it.



2. Car dealers playing with the car buyers Credit application after the buyer is long gone home. They try to make the car buyer look better in the bank's eyes so the car dealer is sure to get the buyer approved, even if the car dealer has to play the FRAUD GAME! I am sure you want proof, so go to the rip Off Report and see for yourself. You tell me what you think!



www.badbusinessbureau.com/reports/ripoff52158.htm



3. Car dealers telling car buyers that if they do not buy the extended warranty they will not get the lower interest rate. And Some car dealers will get the buyer to agree to a warranty during the signing in the "BOX" and then a few days later behind the car Buyer's back they never pay for the warranty they sold to the car buyer. They keep the money.



http://www.badbusinessbureau.com/reports/ripoff84186.htm



4. Hey Mr. Car salesman do you know what a "YANK" or a "SPOT DELIVERY" is?

http://www.badbusinessbureau.com/reports/ripoff52643.htm



5. F&I people not willing to give car buyers copies of what they sign. Why is that Mr. Car salesman?

http://www.badbusinessbureau.com/reports/ripoff94549.htm



6. Car dealers having some new cars on display without having MSRP's. What's up with that Mr. Car salesman? Have you ever Heard of the Monroney Law?



The legislation requiring the sticker is commonly known as the Monroney Law, named after its sponsor in Congress, Almer Stillwell "Mike" Monroney (1902-1980): Born in Oklahoma; U.S. Representative from Oklahoma, 1939-51; U.S. Senator from Oklahoma, 1951-69.



http://www.badbusinessbureau.com/reports/ripoff38266.htm



7. Car dealer selling car buyers trade in before loan on new car gets approved.

http://www.badbusinessbureau.com/reports/ripoff93451.htm



8. Car dealer getting car buyer to sign MANY car buying contracts. Last contract car dealer gets buyer to sign, they kick the Buyer's trade out of the deal and never tell the buyer. Look at the 3rd pic in this report. Mr. car salesman do you feel this buyer was Ripped OFF?

http://www.badbusinessbureau.com/reports/ripoff52158.htm



9. Car dealers making car buyers beg for their down payment back after car deal falls apart! what's up with that? Why can't the car dealer just GIVE THE MONEY BACK?

http://www.badbusinessbureau.com/reports/ripoff77724.htm



10. Car dealers selling "look a likes" Mr. car salesman do not "Dummy up on me yet" OK?

http://www.oag.state.ny.us/press/2002/jan/jan14b_02.html



11. Car dealers like to hide fee's. are you still with me Mr Car salesman? I hope you can keep up with me, and don't dummy up!

http://www.oag.state.ny.us/press/2003/mar/mar18b_03.html



12. car dealers that hide lemons! Hey Mr car dealer want some JUICE?

http://www.oag.state.ny.us/press/2003/mar/mar12b_03.html



13. Can you say "Rolled Roll-back" too many times!

http://www.badbusinessbureau.com/reports/ripoff83654.htm



14. Car buyers having to play the high interest rate game.

http://www.badbusinessbureau.com/reports/ripoff91385.htm



15. Hey Mr car salesman, could we call this one "Rebate Rip OFF?

http://www.badbusinessbureau.com/reports/ripoff23014.htm



16. Could we call this one "hide the wreck"

http://www.badbusinessbureau.com/reports/ripoff89715.htm



17. Hey Mr Honest Car salesman what can we call this one? Maybe "we forgot to pay off the car Buyer's TRADE!

http://www.badbusinessbureau.com/reports/ripoff89428.htm



18. Car Buyer's trade in falls in a REPO HOLE!

http://www.badbusinessbureau.com/reports/ripoff89397.htm



19. Hey Mr car salesman you still with me? Don't fall asleep, we got work to do. What can we call this one? Maybe "Forged my signature'

http://www.badbusinessbureau.com/reports/ripoff88651.htm



20. Can we call this one "contracts of many colors Mr car salesman or maybe " new contract to sign?

http://www.badbusinessbureau.com/reports/ripoff88289.htm



Jon-erikdon't come to this web site and try to defend the auto industry. It will not work. Advocates will come out of the Internet wood work and spank you!



My big problem is that many AG's in this country are not willing to spank dirty, deceptive car dealers. The only AG in this country that I have seen spank a car dealer is in New York!



Jon-erik you want PROOF? By the way, be very glade we do not have Eliot Spitzer as our AG! many car dealers in this state would have something to worry about!



Go to these URL's below and read how New York's AG's office goes after car dealers that they feel are not playing fair!



http://www.oag.state.ny.us/press/1999/jul/jul14b_99.html http://www.oag.state.ny.us/press/2000/oct/oct26a_00.html http://www.oag.state.ny.us/press/2002/nov/nov07a_02.html http://www.oag.state.ny.us/press/2001/dec/dec13e_01.html http://www.oag.state.ny.us/press/2001/dec/dec13b_01.html http://www.oag.state.ny.us/press/2001/may/may30b_01.html http://www.oag.state.ny.us/press/2002/apr/apr19b_02.html http://www.oag.state.ny.us/press/2002/jan/jan14b_02.html http://www.oag.state.ny.us/press/2000/oct/oct12a_00.html http://www.oag.state.ny.us/press/2001/aug/aug09a_01.html http://www.oag.state.ny.us/press/2003/mar/mar12b_03.html http://www.oag.state.ny.us/press/1999/sep/sep30e_99.html http://www.oag.state.ny.us/press/2003/mar/mar18b_03.html http://www.oag.state.ny.us/press/1999/dec/dec06b_99.html http://www.oag.state.ny.us/press/2002/feb/feb28b_02.html http://www.oag.state.ny.us/press/2000/mar/mar28a_00.html http://www.oag.state.ny.us/press/2002/nov/nov07b_02.html http://www.oag.state.ny.us/press/2001/dec/dec13b_01.html



My hat is Off to Eliot Spitzer is a man that all consumers in New York should thank. He has the balls to spank car dealers that are reported to be playing deceptive car buying games. It is a shame I can't say the same about other AG's



Jon-erik car buyers are tired of being Ripped OFF and you are in an industry that has a bad reputation because this industry has earned it. That being said, Keep your boots clean!



Also Jon-erik don't try to come to this web site and try to scoop a few internet UP's. It will back fire trust me!



If a car buyer types in a company name here they will get informed real fast!



Hey Jon-erik You want me to return to my computer and add to the above list? What's Ya thinking?

If it were me who was in that situation - asking

15-20 times for my keys back to no avail and

being held hostage at the dealership - I would

have done things much different.



If after 3 times of politely asking for my

keys back, and being ignored everytime. I

would ask the 4th and last time. No response,

I would have picked-up the phone at this

salesman's desk, and slammed it down his skull.

I would have kept slamming down on his face

until he knew my rage and intentions, and I

would ignore him while inflicting pain and

damage on his head and face. By this time, he

is on the floor bleeding and incompacitated

with a serious head would and broken face.

I now have his complete attention. I demand

my vehicle be parked in front of the office

running with the keys in the ignition within

5 minutes, or I smash his face again.



This is the action consumers should take

whenever you are held hostage. Why the passive

approach to get ripped-off I don't understand.

This goes to all of you knuckleheads that are rebutting the original complaint. Let it rest. This website is like the Jerry Springer Show and needs to be treated like that. An internet sit-com. Since I am spending my precious time writing this brilliant rebuttal I want to say American Car salespeople are wonderful people who care about people in general. They get to laugh, smile and interact (yes face to face) with other people and actually are grateful for that time.



We are responsible for a large part of the economy from the manufacturing to the parts to all the things the auto does for people everyday. We run the city of Gilbert and even the police don't get to tell us what to do. They try to give us tickets and we laugh in their faces. We don't hide at an unknown location behind a computer and type outlandish remarks for the world to see and have no recourse for the vicious remarks we make.



Well like the Springer show a word from my sponsor. The Earnhardt's orginazation is an great place to buy a car and to work. If you felt you have been wrong please stop in and let us know. We will do whatever we can to make admends. Now back to my show. Let me finish up by letting all of you know I love you all and buy calling all of you knuckleheads I mean that with the highest regards.



Let the comedy begin. Remember Jesus loves you.

I couldn't believe an auto dealer would actually use those things till I saw the pictures. What the H*** was the owner thinking? Or was he?? If I saw that at the entrance, I'd leave BEFORE I went past them. Here, that is illegal, and only the POLICE can use spikes in ANY form.



Good reason to always remember your cell phone. Tell the cops that you are being threatened and you fear for your life (and the life of anyone with you). Here that is known as ASSUALT III, a felony.



After reading this and many other Rip-Off Reports, I have concluded that the dealerships here in Fairbanks, Alaska must be some of the best in the nation. (Except for Lithia of Fairbanks.) Never mind the fact that their nearest competitor that carries the same brand and models is 300 miles away!!



They go out of their way to provide outstanding customer service, usually fix it right the first time, and don't promise what they can't (or won't) deliver. And they don't steal your keys to appraise your vehicle until you decide that you WILL buy that day, and WILL NOT be taking your old car home!!



And all this in a city of less than 75,000 people!! Amazing.

It is / was not my intent to get into some pi$$ing match with some haughty female. I say "haughty" in response to your statement: "I was merely pointing out that it is possible to have a good experience at a car dealership if you have both a brain and a backbone." I assume this indicates (you believe) the scores of complaints are generated by customers lacking your measure of "brains and backbone"? Perhaps you can be more specific and enumerate what level of the foregoing is necessary to successfully engage dealer sales personnel?

.

Quote:"I hope you realize that just because YOU'VE never seen a dealership employ this "alleged" method doesn't mean it isn't done." OK, 'ya got me there, Lisa. Niether have I seen pigs fly.

.

As far as "theft during daylight hours", I am certain the threat to the customer far exceeds that of any confronting the dealership. I worked at a new car dealership for 20 years in my youth, and I can offer some solace to the customers who feel wronged. Many new car dealers afford their employees the same (lack of) compassion, forthright honesty, and equitable treatment as they do customers.

.

This will be my final contribution to this thread. Have at it, Lisa!

I was not looking to be the poster child for "customer satisfaction", I was merely pointing out that it is possible to have a good experience at a car dealership if you have both a brain and a backbone. As for my "lame" excuse, I was referring to theft during daylight hours, when pulling out a few pieces of plywood to cover the spikes would be a little obvious. I hope you realize that just because YOU'VE never seen a dealership employ this "alleged" method doesn't mean it isn't done. They have since replaced the spikes with a automated gate that I assume is simply locked after hours.



As for calling me a "shill", you sound about as smug and pompous as that other Adolph.



Have a nice day!

Quotes:

(Darla)"I'm a saleswoman at Earnhardts.....What you people need to do when this happens is let the salesman know that you intend to CALL THE POLICE! Why do you people politely go on for hours and hours putting up with this? It's totally unnecessary.

.

(Lisa):I bought a truck at Earnhart's last year and I had a great experience. They were courteous, allowed me to use their telephone several times and returned my keys before I asked for them.Earnhart Ford in Chandler HAS removed their tire spikes which, by the way, are there to prevent theft, NOT to keep customers from leaving the lot until they buy a vehicle!

.

To Darla: Thanks for the solution necessary to escape the subject car dealer. It's always nice to get inside information from an employee. Sounds like you have the necessary answer. Uhh...sorry about the "polite" customers to which you allude. Hey!....We can't all be snotty!

.

To Lisa: Holy cow! Sounds like Earnhart Ford should prominently post your picture as a "satisfied customer", eh? Shill? Perish the thought. Your excuse is pretty lame on the tire spikes. I have NEVER seen a dealership which had installed such for "theft protection". I've seen a lot of chain-link fences, and closed gates after hours. Any self respecting car thief knows a couple pieces of plywood can negate your alleged purpose of the spikes.

OK, Now it is "Stick Bogart's" turn to spout off. Not trying to be a know-it-all, But I have worked in this valley as a car salesman and let me tell you I have learned a lot about how car dealers work. I have been involved with a local attorney on a few law suits regarding fraud in a big way. trust me that many car dealers have their car buying contracts set up to keep and maintain control of you the buyer.



Car dealers love their "Arbitratioin Clause" Helps them prevent you from having your say in front of a grand jury in a court or law. Trust me no car dealer want you to get in front of a jury and tell what happend to you at a car dealership. Don't believe me? Go to the below link and read them all. Trust me if you are a car buyer, you will like what I post, If you are a car dealer you will hate what I post.



http://www.google.com/search?num=100&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&as_qdr=all&q=Arbitration+Clause+auto&spell=1



This one is VERY GOOD READING.

http://www.citizen.org/congress/civjus/arbitration/articles.cfm?ID=650



Email Bob and ask if he will write about this topic. Again Bob's email is bob.golfen@arizonarepublic.com



Most of you car buying consumers have never been told about what goes on behind back doors. many only think they have a good idea as to what is going on. Many car buyers that do get ripped off are the ones that TRUST or LIKE the car dealer they go to. It's called an "UNSAFE Comfort zone.



If you hate or dislike your sales person and they know it, you will get a much better car deal. Trust me they will give up the gross just to get rid of you so they can look for a weak sucker. Trust me car dealers love the uninformed sucker that likes their car salesman. The weak or uninformed are easy prey.



What I am about to tell you to go and look at is info that you are not going to be told by any local TV station in a consumer news story, You are not going to be told in an article in any local newspaper.



Inside info is easy to find if you know where to look and what to look for. many car dealers hate the Internet because they can't censor what is out there for you to read. I love the Internet because I know where to look to find what a car dealer would not want me to read.



If you do not believe what I am saying about your local media, Try this. In the Arizona Republic there is a guy named Bob Golfen. He writes articles about new cars that are on the market that you car buy and info about what might be coming to the market soon.



This guy Bob it seems NEVER writes about deceptive ways of auto dealers. I can't find anything that he has written about dirty scams that car dealers use on car buyers. Might be only out their to help lead you to the dealers, Who knows!



Email him and ask where can you find anything that he has written about auto dealer scams Bob's email is bob.golfen@arizonarepublic.com Go ahead and take my challenge. You just might get a crazy reason why he does not write to inform or protect car buyers. Now I am going to provide you with some info that he, Bob Golfen might never tell you about.



Most car buying consumers do not have the time to go down town and sit in a court of law during a trial against a car dealer. Think about it for a second. Who has the time to go down their and sit in on a trial related to a car dealer being sued by a car buyer before going to a car dealer to buy their next car.



Better yet, try this. Take this challenge, Go get your yellow pages phone book and go from page 126 to 284 and call some of these attorneys up and ask if they take law suits against new car dealers. You will burn through many phone calls before you find one that will even listen to what you have to say. Most, not all are out to protect the biggest and deepest pockets. The auto industry has been out to protect it's self for a very long time.



Now for some very educational reading, I invite one and all to go to the following links. Ask yourself why so many car dealers have so many law suits on the net. Maybe you might go to this web site posted below and type in your favorite car dealer's business name in and get a big fat surprise. If you live in Phoenix, Go ahead, make my day! and type in your favorite car dealer's name in and do a search. Go ahead, Make my day!



Go to http://recorder.maricopa.gov/recdocdata/GetRecDataSelect.asp?mcrs=1



and type in any ford dealer's business name and see how may law suits pop up. Maybe you might type in a a local Toyota dealer's business name and see how many law suits pop up. I know of a Ford dealer that has maybe way over 120 that you can read. I know of a Ford dealer that has their VERY OWN Lawyer that has their office at the car dealership. Maybe there is a reason this lawyer has their office at a local dealer ship. HUMMMM makes a smart consumer think real hard.



When you go to the above web site ONLY type in the box marked "business name:" and that's it. Type in any car dealer's business name and Then hit the blue search button at the bottom of the page. Trust me you will not find this info printed in the AZ Republic.



Try to Get Bob Golfen to write about what you find. See what he tells you if you ask him to write about auto dealer deception. bob.golfen@arizonarepublic.com



Go ahead, make my day!

I bought a truck at Earnhart's last year and I had a great experience. They were courteous, allowed me to use their telephone several times and returned my keys before I asked for them. I cannot believe that someone would actually buy a piece of junk at an inflated price because they felt they were being "terrorized" by the sales staff. That is just ridiculous! What would they do if you didn't buy? Take you into a back room and torture you? If you are dumb enough to buy a car at a "rip off" price because you either didn't do your homework or were intimidated by sales tactics (or both), then you deserve everything you get. I would have raised holy hell if they didn't give me back my keys and I would have driven through the gate if the guard had detained me.



Earnhart Ford in Chandler HAS removed their tire spikes which, by the way, are there to prevent theft, NOT to keep customers from leaving the lot until they buy a vehicle!

I don't know which is more laughable: your lack of ability to spell properly and make coherent, intelligent remarks, your attempt to turn this thread into a political discussion, your penchant for labelling your detractors as liberals, or your defense of Earnhardt's high pressure sales tactics, which violate the penal laws of several states. As for that "appology" (sic) that you claim to accept, you might want to re-read my previous remarks. The only thing I'm sorry about is that there are ignorant people like you posting on this site.

P.S Im not going to be paying more for the car, because Im not going to be doing business with these FRUITS!

If I had ever been put into that situation, I would have called 911. If I didn't have my cell phone on me, I would have just grabbed a phone or put up so much of a stink that they had to call the cops themselves. I alway carry a spare set of keys to my car, too, so if nothing else I would have driven off no matter what. Or walk off the lot and find a pay phone and call the cops.



This probably doesn't help you down in AZ, but my best car dealings here in Minnesota have been when I've bought a car on the *coldest* day of the year. Last time was buying a used Bronco II. Talked them down 6K off the sticker price, and got a 2K trade in for my $500 junker. They were hungry for a sale.



I don't know why people put up with these strong arm tactics from car dealers. You can always walk away, even if it means *really* walking away from the dealership.

Scott I am aware of the fact that the businesses will try to pass on every CONCEIVABLE "expense" they can onto the consumer,(sneakily)- that is an everyday happening. But are you saying that we should just sit by and let a company DO ANYTHING THEY WANT just to keep them from "passing the buck" onto us???



Should we have done nothing about enron?



I bet you might also argue that we do not need a police force because it costs the consumer. (in taxes)



Heck, maybe we dont even need a military. I bet you could save a few bucks there eh?



"Earnhardt did nothing wrong with the barriers"? Scott I think you need to read the original report again then.



They now have to pay extra for insurance? Gee thats too bad. Most car lots I know of do just fine with their security gaurd. Maybe Earnhardt shouldnt have tried to put some of their operating expenses onto the security gaurd and made him try to sell cars???



Its a d**n shame that the government has to regulate you retards out there. This is where the buck is really passed because if places like earnhardt wouldnt be pulling stuff like this, we wouldnt have to look into it.



This is something you just cant wish away!!!



This is not the OLD WEST! WAKE UP and join the 21st CENTURY!!!

Go back and read the context of my comments. They were indeed regarding repossesions on the reservation. It was to point out that the government is not and has never been the solution to the problem. Only LIBERALS think that way! And as far as the inane comment regarding spilling oil on the land, you do in fact pay for higher gas prices for environmental activities. Here is a simple business fact: expenses are passed on to the consumer...taxes, operations, operating losses, fines and penalties, all get passed on to the consumer. Earnhardt did nothing wrong with the barriers. But since they now have to pay for extra insurance to protect their investment, you're go to pay more for the car. That is a simple economic fact that you cannot wish away!



Your appology is accepted.

Have the spikes really been removed? IF they have that was a correction to a PROBLEM. Should the correction of the DEALERS problem be passed on to the consumer? Of course not. Every one can avoid this "cost" by NOT DOING BUSINESS with the place THAT STARTED THE WHOLE PROBLEM in the first place. Maybe when companies realise that they are gonna have to pay for their mistakes and not just issue a "we're sorry- will you forgive us?" They will not try to pull this kind of "bull" in the future. ANYONE READING THIS- DO NOT EVER BUY A VEHICLE FROM THESE GOONS! That is the only way to really make them see their mistake.



Hey Scott, When an oil company spills millions of gallons of oil on OUR land, should we not say anything about it? In order to keep the COST from being passed onto us, the consumer???

...caliber bandgun and cellphone.



I can promise you, if this situation had happened to me, several employees of Earnhart would have been held - AT GUNPOINT - under citizens arrest until Law Enforcement arrived to take MY prisoners off to jail.



Kidnapping and/or false arrest is a FELONY; as the victim of a felony crime, you have the right to use any force necessary to apprehend the perpetrator.



Doing this just once would stop this kinda crap!

Before you start spouting off about other people being morons perhaps you should have read the posts more closely. Greg was not responding to your comments about repossessions on the reservation, he was responding to your second comment about the dealership not using "Gestapo tactics". If all you can do is attempt to insult someone by calling them a "libral" (which you can't even spell correctly) then you're much more of a moron than you accuse Greg of being.

Only people with steller credit should finance at dealerships. (Read disclaimers on newspaper & tv ads. Also listen to radio ads closly.)



How to avoid Earnhart and other fraudelent dealerships that use tactics beyond the more common deceptive & unfair practices is to apply for a concealed weapons permit. If the dealership attempts to use above tactics the consumer has a means of self defence. Most dealerships will not use these tactics. But really there is no way to know until you are in their dealership and it is too late. It is a fact that dealerships have paid off most local media with their advertising dollars. Chances of a consumer having justice in court against the owner of the fraudelent is about nill since the party with the most money usually wins. Unless the consumer has credit score over 700 it is a waste of time to finance at the dealership. I do look forward to visiting a dealership and hope they want to try hostage tactics with me because I will assert myself. It is usually better to finance outside the dealership because the control remains with the consumer and makes it easier to leave when the deal is not acceptable. Car dealers like to change the original terms after receiving the down payment and using it as leverage to influence agreement to more favorable terms for the dealer. 0% financing is just a ploy to lure unsuspecting public who do not pay attention to disclaimers. Take care when visiting car dealers during these hard economic times because they have more incentive to make their bottom line.

Speaking of morons, Greg...Greg,



Take a deep breath, go back and see what subject I was responding to. It was an claim that banks don't loan to people on the reservations. My point was that the reason why some banks don't, and there are those that don't, is because they can't simply go in and reposses the car. It is the so-called "consumer protection" laws that have prevented consumers, usually the ones who need the loans the worse, from getting the loans they need. Banks have to ask persmission to get their car of the reservation. Since they have to get this permission, banks don't loan money there because about half the time, the judge rules against them.



If your intellegence level does not allow you make a distinction between to esoteric topics I pity you! For once in your miserable libral life, realize that government is not the answer!

1)Hire my agency. We promise you'll be able to

leave whenever you darn please! Satisfaction

guaranteed! ANYWHERE in the USA! 50 STATES

We also provide a video of your experience.



2)Give a call to those investigative TV shows

so they can send someone undercover!

Or better yet, take your own hidden camera so

you can sell the footage to to purchase your

new car or truck or maybe both!

I also have to agree with the earlier post. People use the internet, it there to serve as your resource. I bought my sister a GMC Denali this past christmas using the internet, I got an excellent price for it, picked it up at a local GMC dealership, didn't have to negotiate, nowadays you can even buy the extended warranty online at any GMC dealership nationwide, you will be suprise at how much you can save. The whole thing took 15 mins online. the carsdirect rep spent 2 days finding me the Denali as I wanted it(actually the way my sister wanted it). I spent an half-hour @ the dealership signing the paperwork, then drove it home. After tax & license it was still $2ooo below sticker. Overall one of the best car buying experiences of my life. I will definately try it again when I buy my car this year.

If you are going to purchase a automobile from a dealer and you do not know much about the dealer then do your homework, if you can find this website when the dealer rubs you in a way you do not like then you could find it when you are just checking the comments of others about the dealership. If they are going to appraise your car go with them, you have the right to. Soon as the appraisal is completed get your keys back from the UC Manager. If they give you the any problem what so ever about it ask to see the general manager or the Owner tell him how you feel about the way you have been treated, he will justify things immediately, because that is how US car dealers make a living is repeat customers.



and about me rethinking the issue this is the second time I have read this story



http://www.ripoffreport.com/view.asp?id=52158

and I just hope this family have received some justification for the way they were treated.

If you are going to purchase a automobile from a dealer and you do not know much about the dealer then do your homework, if you can find this website when the dealer rubs you in a way you do not like then you could find it when you are just checking the comments of others about the dealership. If they are going to appraise your car go with them, you have the right to. Soon as the appraisal is completed get your keys back from the UC Manager. If they give you the any problem what so ever about it ask to see the general manager or the Owner tell him how you feel about the way you have been treated, he will justify things immediately, because that is how US car dealers make a living is repeat customers.



and about me rethinking the issue this is the second time I have read this story



http://www.ripoffreport.com/view.asp?id=52158

and I just hope this family have received some justification for the way they were treated.

If you are going to purchase a automobile from a dealer and you do not know much about the dealer then do your homework, if you can find this website when the dealer rubs you in a way you do not like then you could find it when you are just checking the comments of others about the dealership. If they are going to appraise your car go with them, you have the right to. Soon as the appraisal is completed get your keys back from the UC Manager. If they give you the any problem what so ever about it ask to see the general manager or the Owner tell him how you feel about the way you have been treated, he will justify things immediately, because that is how US car dealers make a living is repeat customers.



and about me rethinking the issue this is the second time I have read this story



http://www.ripoffreport.com/view.asp?id=52158

and I just hope this family have received some justification for the way they were treated.

If you are going to purchase a automobile from a dealer and you do not know much about the dealer then do your homework, if you can find this website when the dealer rubs you in a way you do not like then you could find it when you are just checking the comments of others about the dealership. If they are going to appraise your car go with them, you have the right to. Soon as the appraisal is completed get your keys back from the UC Manager. If they give you the any problem what so ever about it ask to see the general manager or the Owner tell him how you feel about the way you have been treated, he will justify things immediately, because that is how US car dealers make a living is repeat customers.



and about me rethinking the issue this is the second time I have read this story



http://www.ripoffreport.com/view.asp?id=52158

and I just hope this family have received some justification for the way they were treated.

We too were ripped off by Earnhardts of Glendale. Our car was wrecked two days before Christmas and now we owe the insurance company $2500.00 because it's value is far less than Earnhardts ripped us off for. After many hours we wanted out of there and gave up trying to understand the "Bull". Buy your car over the internet or haggle over the internet before EVER going to the dealer. Also, there is an article on Edmunds.com from a writer who went undercover in a few car dealerships and it is very insightful information, at the end it has a lot of terms dealers use that ordinary persons do not know but should. I recommend everyone comtemplating a new or used car to read it before going to a car lot again.

We too were ripped off by Earnhardts of Glendale. Our car was wrecked two days before Christmas and now we owe the insurance company $2500.00 because it's value is far less than Earnhardts ripped us off for. After many hours we wanted out of there and gave up trying to understand the "Bull". Buy your car over the internet or haggle over the internet before EVER going to the dealer. Also, there is an article on Edmunds.com from a writer who went undercover in a few car dealerships and it is very insightful information, at the end it has a lot of terms dealers use that ordinary persons do not know but should. I recommend everyone comtemplating a new or used car to read it before going to a car lot again.

We too were ripped off by Earnhardts of Glendale. Our car was wrecked two days before Christmas and now we owe the insurance company $2500.00 because it's value is far less than Earnhardts ripped us off for. After many hours we wanted out of there and gave up trying to understand the "Bull". Buy your car over the internet or haggle over the internet before EVER going to the dealer. Also, there is an article on Edmunds.com from a writer who went undercover in a few car dealerships and it is very insightful information, at the end it has a lot of terms dealers use that ordinary persons do not know but should. I recommend everyone comtemplating a new or used car to read it before going to a car lot again.

We too were ripped off by Earnhardts of Glendale. Our car was wrecked two days before Christmas and now we owe the insurance company $2500.00 because it's value is far less than Earnhardts ripped us off for. After many hours we wanted out of there and gave up trying to understand the "Bull". Buy your car over the internet or haggle over the internet before EVER going to the dealer. Also, there is an article on Edmunds.com from a writer who went undercover in a few car dealerships and it is very insightful information, at the end it has a lot of terms dealers use that ordinary persons do not know but should. I recommend everyone comtemplating a new or used car to read it before going to a car lot again.

Dennis it is sad to say I agree with you having a concealed weapon in a dealership.



It is true most car dealers rely on ingnorance of consumers to commit fraud. When their scams don't work they will resort to using multiple salesmen to keep the consumer is the dealership. Usually the F&I manager is the ringleader of this tactic.



Usually they will lure the unsuspecting consumer into the F&I office that has only one exit or a electronic lock on the door. By the way I did not have a cell phone with me at City Mitsubishi to call 911 with. Out of all the days I carry my phone I forgot it at home when I went to this dealership because I never expected to be mugged in a dealership. I now have a concealed weapons permit and the only way I would feel safe to visit the local friendly car dealership is to have a means to defend myself. If the dealership uses typical car dealer scams like low-balling a trade I'll just walk away.



If salesmen want to block my exit and otherwise intend to detain me again I will use necessary measures. I wish I was only making this up but unfortunately this a been my experience with City Mitsubishi.



Usually car dealers will use captive car selling tactics when there no other consumers in the dealership to possibly help you or call police. I feel comfortable going into any other retail sales establishment except car dealerships their salesmen have no limit to the tactics they will use to make a sale. I will be visiting friendly pirahna pond shopping for a car. This time I will be prepared for any tactics a dishonest dealership will attempt and have a means to defend myself. Although there are reputable dealers out there, I feel the dishonest one outnumber them making just stepping on a car lot a major risk.

In Arizona, you have the right to carry a concealed weapon. Kidnapping is on the list of crimes that you, as a citizen, are justified in using deadly force to prevent!! Need I say more???



I have purchased two vehicles from this dealership and believe me, the pistol on the hip makes things go a lot smoother!!!

My "editorial" was inaccurately directed to Tony...my apologies. They were for Scott and David (former Earnhardt employees?)



Best regards.

Are you Earnhardst's Public Relations Manager? No? Then you must be a moron.



To think that consumers are conjuring up these events and wasting their time to publish them, just to entertain themselves and to take undue criticism from fools like you, is insane.



I suggest you remove the blinders, open your eyes, and recognize that a problem DOES exist in the world of auto sales. For you to suggest that the problem only exists in the minds of the consumer is moronic.



Visit Earnhardt's, loosen the ole necktie and take a deep breath...Oh, wait, you work there... and try not to choke on the fumes. Lighten up.

TOP Training Solutions provide training and development for Car Sales Professionals



The main goal of our training is to provide Car Sales People with ideas and innovations in order for them to provide the very highest standards of Customer Service in their Dealerships, which will, in turn, build the Dealership an excellent reputation



The Dealership with the best reputation will maximise it's opportunities to do business through repeat business and referals, and this will result in an increased conversion ratio



Profit per unit is increased as the Dealership sells more cars, has a speedier stock turn, and has a much smaller 'goodwill' bill at the close of each month, as the need to pacify dissatisfied Customers is minimised



We offer a free biweekly training ezine which is read by Car Sales Professionals (as well as Sales Professionals from other industries)from around the world. This ezine gives potential TOP Training students a flavour of what is included on our training sessions, and, again, the focus of these is providing first class Customer Service



We do not,as implied,train our students in tricks or scams, and the free ezine is open for ANYONE to read

Wow.

Nuff said.

I sell Infinitis and i have to say beyond a shadow of a doubt that i nearly had to hug the

porcelain goddess and throw up when i read this..

My advice, Try dealing with the internet sales manager on a deal? Or be a "Phoneup" Call the dealer from the comfort of your home.

Never leave em your keys please...When i have to take a possible trade in to get an appraisal done to a possible trade in I for one...Ask the customer if he/she wants to go...Heck i have nothing to hide...If they do not i ask for the keys and explain what i will be doing and give a est time frame "And i bust my tail to stick to it"

Customer service in a dealership should be one your reasons to buy a vehicle from that dealership in the first place...Do your homeowrk on the dealer before you deal with them.

As for where i work if a sweat so much as broke out on a customers head or they had one small issue with my attitude i would be fired on the spot. I pamper my customers!



If an Infiniti customer lives 65 miles away and needs a ride to the dealership..Guess what? I will be at there house 10 minutes before scheduled...My job is to spoil my customer in a way no other dealer can match..I never hard sell...Never..Why dont other dealers sell this way? Could it be the massive bank note that is due in days for the massive amount of cars on the lot that had better be sold or else the bank comes by and performs the dealer repo boogey?



Hmmmmm

I've bought numerous cars over the years, and 6 new cars in the last 3 years. I've learned a little. I now use technology to simplify my buying experience.



I use the internet to determine how much I should be paying for a car, and how much I should get in trade. My current favorite is www.edmunds.com.



Armed with that information, I contact the dealer through the internet. If I must walk up to a dealer, it's always to the fleet sales dept. which is usually the same for most dealers. Today, you can usually find a car at roughly invoice or slighty less. You get the invoice price from the internet. I have a price agreed on before I ever step foot into a dealership now. The negotiation phase is over before I ever see the actual car.



Make a realistic offer for your trade. Don't assume the dealer is just dying to give you retail for your old car. Often they don't want it as bad as you think. If you expect the dealer to give you what a private party will, you aren't going to be happy. Sell to a private party, or accept what they offer. You'll make more money selling it yourself, but a trade-in is very convenient. I've done both. Selling your car is not as much fun as you think.



I've bought a car in less than 45 minutes 3 times recently, at a fair price (invoice). I'm working on another purchase as we speak.



Mistakes I Made -



NEVER deal with a dealer who pulls out a sheet of paper with 4 squares on it. Or who asks you, "How much a month can you afford?". These are tools they use to get the maximum amount of money for the car. If they could, they would use this to sell you a car over retail, and unfortunately, I fell for it before.



Do NOT just hand over your old car's keys unless you have already signed a deal for your new car to your liking. Yes, I too had be held captive by a dealer who would not give my keys back. If they demand it, just shop elsewhere. Or stay with your car. They don't need to take it into the service area to look at it.

Tony,



Before you start shooting your mouth off regarding "Gestapo" tactics and tire spikes and all, you need to be aware that this event happened over two years ago and since then the tire spikes at all of the Earnhardt locations have been removed along with the automatic arms.



As a result, the dealerships must now pay for higher insurance costs, which is of course passed on to the consumer. In other words, the consumer "advocates" forced the price of cars higher.

First things first; I do not work for an auto dealership.



I find it incredulous that someone can be held for hours against their will, and the person would not try to escape to the nearest phone and call the police, worse yet if you had a cell phone.



I would venture to say that the truth is probably somewhere in between, maybe a couple of important items were omitted. I do not doubt that there are dealers that employ some rather underhanded tactics to sell vehicles. However their normal m.o. is to low ball your trade, over inflate the car you want and finally hammer you with an extended warranty and as a high an interest rate as the F&I guy can.



I did for a short time work in the service dept at a dealership. The biggest misjustice I saw was the amount of money people would pay for used vehicles, since I knew the dealers' cost. Notice that I did not say ripoff...the people buying these vehicles are not being forced to do so, if the price is to high; find this out before you buy it, if it's a piece of junk.....again find out beforehand, if you pay more in interest than you have to...you didn't do your homework.



Bottom line; a business man can charge any price he/she likes for his product regardless of what you think it is worth, the only time this is untrue would be if something is being sold in a crisis situation and the salesman is exploiting the buyer.



For example; selling bottled water for $10 a gallon right after a hurricane comes through and you are the only one with water to sell...that would be illegal.



I'm sure I'll catch some flack for this, but : it is generally lazy and/or ignorant people that get "ripped off" at s dealer and any place for that matter, or at best a person who is far from qualified to enter into business negotiations involving thousands of dollars.



In short, know your trade in value, know the value of the car you are interested in, know your beacon score (credit rating), and what that means to the type of credit you can expect, and for god's sake if you are buying a used car, please, please...have it checked out by a qualified technician whom you know and trust (don't have one ? ...get one).

Mary,



Were you aware that the same law that states that a lender cannot descriminate against a person because of race is the same law that states that the lender does not have to loan a person money if the bank doesn't believe that they will either get repaid or they can't reposses the car?



When a car goes on the reservation it is the same as if it goes into a foriegn country. That means in order to reposses a car on the reservation a bank has to go as a reservation judge for premission. I have been in the court room when a judge on the reservation refused to let us reposses a car that the debtor had not made 4 payments because the judge felt that the debtor needed the car to go to work to make the payments. The guy hadn't made a payment in 4 months and wasn't planning on making any more payments. We wound up charging off the balance because a judge refused to allow us to reposses the car. The guy got a free car!



So, don't blame someone for not loaning you money if you live on a reservation. Blame the people who do not pay for thier cars and ruin it for everyone else.

To the woman sales person at Earnhardts that stated they never use these kidnapping tactics is nothing but a LIAR!!!



Not only do they use these tactics over and over again, they also discriminate against their "customers". When we bought our Explorer from them in 1993 (and will never return), the finance person said "how do I know that you won't just move to the reservation and I'll never get a payment out of you". Being an American Indian, that discrimination.



Earnhardts make ripping off a science!!

Darla, I am also an Earnhardt "refugee"> I got simular tactics When I purchased My Jeep Rubicon. I asked for my keys to MY Jeep several times, before they finally reached a pretty close deal to what i wanted,( and also Earnhardt had the only Rubicons at the time, now I know why) but I was ready to walk out several times, and this was this past january! As far as the SPIKES umm they are still there at the Jeep area as I was just there the other day! You must use a different entrance.



The Jeep Rubicon had 1000 miles on it. It was explained that it was returned due to not being able to finance. BUt now I am starting to wonder more, and have requested documentatiuon to this, but nothing so far.



But now that you have my money and my trade in, YOur 5 star service deparment suck a*s! I have been in 2 times already for a loose axle shaft on the fron on MY RUBICON! It is clearly loose, you can move it with your hand, but I am being told , I cannot find nothing wrong, and we cannot duplicate it. Now the kicker Daimlers customer service will not do anyhtig about it!

why? because of the way Earnhardt is listing it! Also I have been contacted from a representative of Daimlers customer service and threated I would be turned over to Daimlers "corporate security" If i was to call or email the customer service department! yea can you beleive that! Is there a Jeep jail for trying to get your vehicle fixed right? Hell it only has just over 7000 miles on it!



I will be returning probably this week to your not so wonderful service department, This being 3rd time for same probelm, Lemon laws will come in effect then. Whats so bad is outside of that axle issue, I love my Jeep! Just Earnhardts attitude is giving a bad taste in my mouth!" We got the deal now we don't give a d**n, SUCKER!!!"



What ever happened about customer sevice?? In Fact that is what I do! WE have a company rule now, "get it right, period"! What that means is we are to solve the problem first time best we can, period! And that we do.



as far as all dealerships being bad?? Naww.. I have been treated well in many dealerships back in Georgia where I am from, and even one here in arizona. BUT it wasn't earnhadrt! I have been in and out of a dealership before in less than 2 hours before, and felt good about the deal. gave me price for the car LESS than sticker, gave me fair trade in for my old. Then even dropped the price a bit more before signing papers!! NOw thats service!



I'll be by Earnhardts on Baseline next week. I'll take my digital camera too! The Ford side is right next door, I see many pictures to come. Be glad to post those spikes for everyone to see.



William M

2003 Red Jeep Rubicon

( Ask Rosemary Jeep service dept, MGR she knows who i am well)

I have read all of the feed back to the Earnhart disaster. In ready this story, my first thought was why did this person drive onto this lot if he was already suspiciou. My second thought was why did he stay calm when he was being held prisioner. I would have called the police for fear of my life. I would probably have threatened the sales persons and manages life also.



Now don't get me wrong, I think that this dealership should be put out of business if they are allowing or expecting their employees to act as these employees did. If management was not aware of this incident then these employees should be fired.



Besides most people could not imagine for the life of them that what happened to these folks could ever happen, they were probably in shock for awhile.



I think that there are some dealerships that will rip you off, steal your keys, lie and have poor customer service. I have also had the greatest experience with dealerships also.



I have never purchased a new car since I have been driving. My husband has had several. I will give you a breaf break down of what we have experienced.



My husband purchased his first truck from Battlefield Ford in Manassas, Va. I wish I could remember the salesmans name but it has been too many years. We were in and out in short order. My husband got the truck for a fair price and no hassel. Several years later we went to Kowls Ford in Woodbridge, VA. Our visit to them pretty much started out like these folks did. The sales person said that his manager needed to make the final decision. My husband will not sit anywhere for more than 30 minutes. When he ask for his keys to the car we were going to trade in they said that they would have to get them from the used car lot and that it would take a while. My husband told him that he had 5 minutes to get the keys in his hand or he would call the police and have someone arrested for kidnapping and theft of his car. Of course the salesman thought he was joking. When my husband picked up the phone on the desk the keys apeared.



We have had good experience with dealerships over the years and only the one bad experience. What we do every time that we are looking for a vehicle is check out consumer reports, talk to friends and comparison shop before we go to the dealership.

David you need to re think in a big way. Go to the following Rip Off Report and you read it real good. You tell me it you think she was not Ripped Off!



http://www.ripoffreport.com/view.asp?id=52158



It is high time some dirty car dealers GO TO JAIL for FRAUD!

Most car dealers know that they can get away with most anything then pay their dirty "LAW SHARKS" a few big ones and they are in the clear! I say think again, because we are here to EXPOSE!



Don't come on this web site and think for one second that you can defend car dealer deception, It will not work.

All i ever hear about car dealers is negative remarks, The car dealer is not scum, they take your keys while they appraise the vehicle then lead you on for hours ( I find that hard to believe, I have been in the wholesale, and retail car business for about 5 years now. This kind of thing just don't happen, the only time you ever hear a consumer complain about the way they are treated at a car dealership is when the dealer will not put $6,000.00 in a car that is worth about $2,000.00, and they are probally belly up in, or the customer comes up there knowing they have smashed credit spend a couple of hours up there and the dealer can not get them financed( then the consumer drags the dealer through the mud because they are taking out there frustation on the dealer. And that is wrong!)I have read a couple of these rip off reports and I mean some seem ligit but about the Joe Verde Or Big Gross, that is crazy. Someone goes to school to learn computer programming is that wrong? no. But send a sales represenative to Joe Verde to learn sales tactics and then they are ball breaking car dealers then.



In conclusion, open your own dealership buy the cars, get the cars ready, pay the bills , insure the cars, fix the cars when they tear up. And then ask yourself would you really take any less( be honest)

Darla I tried in vain to exit the dealership and get my keys back. Also I said I would call the police if they did not return my keys because it is auto theft. WOW they were realy scared. Access to the phones in the dealership was blocked by the salesmen. Might have worked if I remembered to bring my cell phone.



I DID NOT EXPECT TO HAVE STRONG ARM ROBBERY COMMITTED AGAINST ME IN A DEALERSHIP. I expected typical car dealer fast talk and confusing terms.



As for help from police, they say it is a civil matter! Did you know a person can assault you on the street and get away with it. Myself and my wife were mugged by at least 8 thugs. My wife's head was covered in blood and the police refused to make an arrest.



This is the point, you cannot count on the justice system to protect you. Whether it is being mugged in a dark parking lot of an apartment complex or in a well lit dealership the justice system seems to give more rights to criminals than their victims.



I have no interest in violence but I will use any means necessary to prevent the above experiences happening again. If someone wants to rob me again, hope they have good insurance.



Sure I could have played superhero. Who knows what they would have done if tried hand to hand combat with them. I truly felt my life was in danger in that dealership. It was over a month after Sept 11th, and they would have used any means to make a sale. They were desperate enough to use violence after not giving in for several hours. The dealership is off the road and their were no other customers there. The end result $52210.00 for a 2001 used 4x2 Montero Sport and still making payments on the Dodge Neon they stole from me two years ago.

I'm a saleswoman at Earnhardts and I would never keep the keys of a prospective buyer nor do I know of anyone else who practices this tactic within the Earnhardt organization.



What you people need to do when this happens is let the salesman know that you intend to CALL THE POLICE! Why do you people politely go on for hours and hours putting up with this? It's totally unnecessary.



Regarding the security gates...they've long since been removed. Yes, even though the theft factor might increase, Earnhardt took the gates down so consumer's satisfaction would increase.



I've worked at lots of dealerships and while none are perfect (some are far from it) Earnhardts is the best when it comes to customer relations. For those of you who disagree, report your issues to Earnhardt and let them (us) win back your confidence.

If you are 21 buy a concealed weapons permit. If you are detained in a dealership and there is no peaceful means to leave, do what ever it takes to get out of there. The justice system is unreliable for the working class. It is a catch 22, most people cannot afford a lawyer and make too much to get legal aid.(Have to be jobless and homeless to qualify) It's your money. It is well known car dealers are a bunch of terrorists that do anything to make a sale and the customer ends up being extremely upside down and have the car repoed, paying for a vehicle that he/she no longer has. I expect to be upside down because of interest for a loan, but because a dealer inflates the price by tacking on useless options often in excess $5000.00 like putting square tires on a car and calling it a non-skid package or charging for options that are already included twice. Don't expect the justice system to give you justice or government agencies to control these predators. With the economy becoming worse, dealer tactics will do the same. It is not enough to have the right consumer information on cars since scummy dealers want your entire paycheck. They say they have a family to feed? I bet they NEVER lost sleep over families being destroyed by their greed. Before some idiot car dealer or on of their shills say"grocery store charge more on food than it is worth" Big difference is the amount of money at stake. $20000.00 vice $20.00. I never experienced a cashier at a store trying to slip in credit life ins., fidelity warrantee, added cashier markup on a steak. Consumers its your money, you worked for you paycheck not the car dealers. Cannot expect the justice system to protect you. Sometimes people have to defend themselves against strong arm robbery.

If you are 21 buy a concealed weapons permit. If you are detained in a dealership and there is no peaceful means to leave, do what ever it takes to get out of there. The justice system is unreliable for the working class. It is a catch 22, most people cannot afford a lawyer and make too much to get legal aid.(Have to be jobless and homeless to qualify) It's your money. It is well known car dealers are a bunch of terrorists that do anything to make a sale and the customer ends up being extremely upside down and have the car repoed, paying for a vehicle that he/she no longer has. I expect to be upside down because of interest for a loan, but because a dealer inflates the price by tacking on useless options often in excess $5000.00 like putting square tires on a car and calling it a non-skid package or charging for options that are already included twice. Don't expect the justice system to give you justice or government agencies to control these predators. With the economy becoming worse, dealer tactics will do the same. It is not enough to have the right consumer information on cars since scummy dealers want your entire paycheck. They say they have a family to feed? I bet they NEVER lost sleep over families being destroyed by their greed. Before some idiot car dealer or on of their shills say"grocery store charge more on food than it is worth" Big difference is the amount of money at stake. $20000.00 vice $20.00. I never experienced a cashier at a store trying to slip in credit life ins., fidelity warrantee, added cashier markup on a steak. Consumers its your money, you worked for you paycheck not the car dealers. Cannot expect the justice system to protect you. Sometimes people have to defend themselves against strong arm robbery.

If you are 21 buy a concealed weapons permit. If you are detained in a dealership and there is no peaceful means to leave, do what ever it takes to get out of there. The justice system is unreliable for the working class. It is a catch 22, most people cannot afford a lawyer and make too much to get legal aid.(Have to be jobless and homeless to qualify) It's your money. It is well known car dealers are a bunch of terrorists that do anything to make a sale and the customer ends up being extremely upside down and have the car repoed, paying for a vehicle that he/she no longer has. I expect to be upside down because of interest for a loan, but because a dealer inflates the price by tacking on useless options often in excess $5000.00 like putting square tires on a car and calling it a non-skid package or charging for options that are already included twice. Don't expect the justice system to give you justice or government agencies to control these predators. With the economy becoming worse, dealer tactics will do the same. It is not enough to have the right consumer information on cars since scummy dealers want your entire paycheck. They say they have a family to feed? I bet they NEVER lost sleep over families being destroyed by their greed. Before some idiot car dealer or on of their shills say"grocery store charge more on food than it is worth" Big difference is the amount of money at stake. $20000.00 vice $20.00. I never experienced a cashier at a store trying to slip in credit life ins., fidelity warrantee, added cashier markup on a steak. Consumers its your money, you worked for you paycheck not the car dealers. Cannot expect the justice system to protect you. Sometimes people have to defend themselves against strong arm robbery.

If you are 21 buy a concealed weapons permit. If you are detained in a dealership and there is no peaceful means to leave, do what ever it takes to get out of there. The justice system is unreliable for the working class. It is a catch 22, most people cannot afford a lawyer and make too much to get legal aid.(Have to be jobless and homeless to qualify) It's your money. It is well known car dealers are a bunch of terrorists that do anything to make a sale and the customer ends up being extremely upside down and have the car repoed, paying for a vehicle that he/she no longer has. I expect to be upside down because of interest for a loan, but because a dealer inflates the price by tacking on useless options often in excess $5000.00 like putting square tires on a car and calling it a non-skid package or charging for options that are already included twice. Don't expect the justice system to give you justice or government agencies to control these predators. With the economy becoming worse, dealer tactics will do the same. It is not enough to have the right consumer information on cars since scummy dealers want your entire paycheck. They say they have a family to feed? I bet they NEVER lost sleep over families being destroyed by their greed. Before some idiot car dealer or on of their shills say"grocery store charge more on food than it is worth" Big difference is the amount of money at stake. $20000.00 vice $20.00. I never experienced a cashier at a store trying to slip in credit life ins., fidelity warrantee, added cashier markup on a steak. Consumers its your money, you worked for you paycheck not the car dealers. Cannot expect the justice system to protect you. Sometimes people have to defend themselves against strong arm robbery.

Don't know how I ended up at this website, but Earnhardts has a Jeep/Chrysler dealership next door and the experience was the same. I bought a car there, it has served me well, but had I known what I was in for I never would have bought the car from Earnhardts "and that ain't no bull". They are a gold star dealership for Chrysler Jeep, I don't know how you could feel positive with that kind of experience. What if the neighborhood department store locked the doors and wouldn't let you leave until you purchased a certain amount. Car dealers and dealerships are the lowest form of life.

Marty sorry about you being a victim of car dealer. most car buyers are not being told about all of the car dealers plans and scams.



I would like you to check out the following web sites and then post an update as to what product or service these companies sell to car dealers across the country.



Here is the list, Go to them ALL, OK?



www.probac.com

www.nationalautotraining.com

www.appliedconcepts.net

www.grantcardone.com

www.davidlewis.com

www.jeffsacksandassociates.com

www.stukertraining.com

www.paulcummings.com

www.tewart.com

www.joeverde.com



www.biggross.com



www.nationalautotraining.com

www.fandiprofit.com

www.carsalestraining.co.uk/preview.html

www.autoscreeningtraining.com

www.autosalestraining.com

www.wwcsonline.com



Marty Remember: Their gain is YOUR PAIN!

Tell all of your friends to read your Rip Off Report.

I traded in my 1999 Ford Mustang last year. I made the mistake of going alone and not taking my burly, take no BULL dad. After they took my keys the mood changed. They were obviously on a mission. I was there for over 3 hours while they tried to get me approved for the car they talked me into getting - a used 2000 Mitsubishi Montero Sport with over 64000 miles on it. Ya, I know I GOT RIPPED OFF. They were asking for way more than what it was worth but luckily I called a friend that looked up the blue book value. They kept asking me to sign my name on a used napkin that the salesman had used to clean his glasses with. The napkin had several crossed out amounts on it and when something finally looked good to me, they wanted me to sign my name on the used napkin. I asked for my key's 8 times in a 4 hour period but they looked confused as if they didn't know who had them. I continued to be patient, thinking that of how foolish I would feel, investing all my time and walking away with nothing. Now I had to get a car. Finally I was getting upset and I asked for my keys the 8th and final time but they convinced me that they had the best deal they could offer me. They had worn me down so bad that I just wanted to take the deal and get out of there. The following day, I inspected the car in the daylight. I was discussed! There was mucus on the door handles, soda syrup on the cup holders, stains and scratches everywhere. Not only that but a month later when my title arrived, I discovered that it had been used as a commercial vehicle. Shouldn't they have disclosed that to me??? I learned many things that day. DON'T GIVE OUT YOUR ORIGINAL KEY'S, never buy a car at night, if their 3rd offer doesn't look good - LEAVE, never stay their for more than an 1 hour to get approved and lastly, take along a group of loud, obnoxious, screaming kids with you and they'll speed up the process.

What are those people thinking? What they are doing would be false imprisonment. Or in the most desperate situation, do what women are taught in self-defense classes..SCREAM at the top of your lungs and draw attention to yourself. That would make the scumbags most uncomfortable and they couldn't wait for you to get off their lot and away from their other marks..

Amazing. I was ripped off by a Mitsubishi dealership similiar to Earnhart Ford, City Mitsubishi in Jacksonville, FL. What nerve! It is typical that the perperator blaming the victims.



My experience was I was detained for 5 hours on the premises, had my credit card stolen by the finance agent there, charged $2500.00, refused to return my keys before even signing a contract. Car dealers are scummy grifters, and dishonest businessmen. After fearing for my wife's safty and mine so I captulated. I was ripped off by those scum for $52,010.20 for a used 2001 Montero Sport.



I saw no other choice other than to buy the piece of garbage or risk a physical confrontation with 300 lb. thugs that hide behind a corporate trademark.



In the future when I deal with terrorists like you to buy a car, I will have means to force my way out. I can only hope the dishonest businessmen will get what they deserve when they rip off the wrong person. This is my response to the self-righteous car dealer's rebuttal.

Wow,



It seems to me "the great thorn" must be from Kalamazoo or must have failed in Car Sales. Why do you have such an issue with car dealerships? I noticed some strange pattern with the 7 articles that we on Earnhardts. 3 of the postings were from Kalamazoo MI. That seems strange to me because 2 other postings wouldn't even list their names or cities, and one put a rebuttal about what he said was a "misunderstanding" and he apologized for the bad words. That leaves one bad article. To be in business since 1951 and have one bad article that is not too bad.



Yes I believe that there are dishonest people in the car business, but you can say that about every field in general. Surely everyone has made a mistake and wronged someone at some time, but don't we teach our children to forgive others? Why don't we, I mean everyone, learn to speak up quickly when we are mistreated to allow that person to correct or solve the problem. The true character of a company and consumer appears when someone who feels wronged makes admends or allows the company to correct the mistake.This shouldn't always mean and exchange of cash. This website is not responsible for our sue-happy, non responsibilty taking attitude of the American public, but it sure do pile on that tone. I am sure that of the 900+ postings your site shows that some or many of the "victims" are not as innocent as they try to state.



Why don't we as the public be held accountable for "our" actions. Why is it that your site preaches the Dealership has to back up what they say but the customer is allowed to bend the truth? Shouldn't the customer take responsibility for their statements and actions. Well even the picture you posted on 10-26-02 is not accurate of the entrance of Earnhardts, those spikes are no longer there even though there are thefts in that $50-80,000 per year income area. If those pictures come from the editor of this site why don't you plainly post that you charge for rebuttals on this site(after 4 of them)?



If you are looking to buy a car there are plenty of honest and moral people in the car business so look to your friends, coworkers, church members, teammates, denist, doctors and others you trust to recommend someone Treat them as you want to be treated, honestly and with respect. Be upfront and loyal so they can earn a living and you can get a "good deal". Remember you do not have to pay more for service and quality but you do get what you pay for.

If you are a car buyer would you like being treated like what is posted above? If not send a copy of this Rip Off Report to the following big shots at Ford motor Corp



Brenda Hines

bhines1@ford.com

Brand(s): Ford Motor Company

Department: Manufacturing

1-313-322-1185



Tom Hoyt

thoyt@ford.com

Brand(s): Ford Motor Company

Department: Centennial Operations

1-313-323-8143



Ron Iori

riori@ford.com

Brand(s): Ford Motor Company

Department: Global Operations

1-313-337-2456



Daniel Jarvis

djarvis1@ford.com

Brand(s): Ford Motor Company

Department: Ford Financial

1-313-594-2527



Paige Johnson

pjohns29@ford.com

Brand(s): Ford Motor Company

Department: Customer Satisfaction & Technologies

1-313-248-6820



Kristen Kinley

kkinley@ford.com

Brand(s): Ford Motor Company

Department: Environment & Safety Communications

1-313-845-2709



Joe Koenig

jkoenig@ford.com

Brand(s): Ford Motor Company

Department: Powertrain

1-313-845-9148



Susan Krusel

skrusel@ford.com

Brand(s): Ford

Department: Ford Division

1-313-594-4175



Meera Kumar

mkumar10@ford.com

Brand(s): Ford

Department: New York Regional Office

1-212-265-2793



Ed Lewis

elewis5@ford.com

Brand(s): Ford Motor Company

Department: Manufacturing

1-313-323-7809



Sonia Mishra

smishra1@ford.com

Brand(s): Ford Motor Company, Lincoln

Department: Global Product Development & Technologies

1-313-621-6089



Octavio Navarro

onavarr1@ford.com

Brand(s): Ford Motor Company, Ford, Lincoln, Mercury

Department: Los Angeles Regional Office

1-949-629-2033



Todd Nissen

tnissen@ford.com

Brand(s): Ford Motor Company

Department: Manufacturing

1-313-337-2786



Bob Roach

rroach1@ford.com

Brand(s): Ford Motor Company, Ford, Lincoln, Mercury

Department: Product Development and Global Design

1-313-390-9553



Harold Allen

hallen1@ford.com

Brand(s): Ford

Department: Dallas Regional Office

1-214-528-7120



Sandra Badgett

sbadgett@ford.com

Brand(s): Ford, Lincoln, Mercury

Department: Los Angeles Regional Office

1-949-629-2036



Angela Coletti

acoletti@ford.com

Brand(s): Ford Motor Company

Department: Global News Bureau

1-313-390-1759



John Delle Monache

jdellemo@ford.com

Brand(s): Ford Motor Company

Department: Broadcast News

1-313-594-0520



Anne Marie Gattari

agattari@ford.com

Brand(s): Ford Motor Company

Department: Global News Bureau

1-313-322-9211



Ron Iori

riori@ford.com

Brand(s): Ford Motor Company

Department: Global Operations

1-313-337-2456



Susan Krusel

skrusel@ford.com

Brand(s): Ford

Department: Ford Division

1-313-594-4175



Rich Mayk

rmayk@ford.com

Brand(s): Ford Motor Company

Department: Broadcast News

1-313-845-0627



John Ochs

jochs@ford.com

Brand(s): Ford Motor Company

Department: New Media Team

1-313-337-3669



Glenn Ray

gray2@ford.com

Brand(s): Ford Motor Company

Department: Broadcast News

1-313-248-2335



David Reuter

dreuter@ford.com

Brand(s): Ford Motor Company

Department: Global Operations

1-313-594-4410



Deborah Sandford

dsandfor@jaguar.com

Brand(s): Jaguar

Department: Jaguar

1-949-341-6184



Lynne Slovick

lslovick@landrover.com

Brand(s): Land Rover

Department: Land Rover

1-949-341-6809



Kristine Testori

ktestori@ford.com

Brand(s): Ford Motor Company

Department: Process Leadership

1-313-594-3542



Beverly Thacker

bthacke2@ford.com

Brand(s): Ford Motor Company, Aston Martin, Ford, Jaguar, Land Rover, Lincoln, Mazda, Mercury, Volvo

Department: Broadcast News

1-313-317-7639



Donna Thomas

dthoma27@ford.com

Brand(s): Ford Motor Company

Department: Media Fleet

1-313-845-4613



James Thomas

jthoma98@jaguar.com

Brand(s): Ford Motor Company, Aston Martin, Ford, Jaguar

Department: Jaguar

1-949-341-6140



James Trainor

jtrainor@ford.com

Brand(s): Ford Motor Company, Lincoln, Mercury

Department: Lincoln Mercury

1-949-341-7689



Christian Vinyard

cvinyard@ford.com

Brand(s): Ford Motor Company

Department: Global Affiliates & Associations

1-313-594-7899



Rich Voytowich Jr.

rvoytowi@ford.com

Brand(s): Ford

Department: Detroit/Chicago Regional Office

1-313-390-5068



Kristie Winters

kwinter3@ford.com

Brand(s): Ford Motor Company

Department: Media Fleet

1-313-317-4453



Signed

If you are a car buyer would you like being treated like what is posted above? If not send a copy of this Rip Off Report to the following big shots at Ford motor Corp



Brenda Hines

bhines1@ford.com

Brand(s): Ford Motor Company

Department: Manufacturing

1-313-322-1185



Tom Hoyt

thoyt@ford.com

Brand(s): Ford Motor Company

Department: Centennial Operations

1-313-323-8143



Ron Iori

riori@ford.com

Brand(s): Ford Motor Company

Department: Global Operations

1-313-337-2456



Daniel Jarvis

djarvis1@ford.com

Brand(s): Ford Motor Company

Department: Ford Financial

1-313-594-2527



Paige Johnson

pjohns29@ford.com

Brand(s): Ford Motor Company

Department: Customer Satisfaction & Technologies

1-313-248-6820



Kristen Kinley

kkinley@ford.com

Brand(s): Ford Motor Company

Department: Environment & Safety Communications

1-313-845-2709



Joe Koenig

jkoenig@ford.com

Brand(s): Ford Motor Company

Department: Powertrain

1-313-845-9148



Susan Krusel

skrusel@ford.com

Brand(s): Ford

Department: Ford Division

1-313-594-4175



Meera Kumar

mkumar10@ford.com

Brand(s): Ford

Department: New York Regional Office

1-212-265-2793



Ed Lewis

elewis5@ford.com

Brand(s): Ford Motor Company

Department: Manufacturing

1-313-323-7809



Sonia Mishra

smishra1@ford.com

Brand(s): Ford Motor Company, Lincoln

Department: Global Product Development & Technologies

1-313-621-6089



Octavio Navarro

onavarr1@ford.com

Brand(s): Ford Motor Company, Ford, Lincoln, Mercury

Department: Los Angeles Regional Office

1-949-629-2033



Todd Nissen

tnissen@ford.com

Brand(s): Ford Motor Company

Department: Manufacturing

1-313-337-2786



Bob Roach

rroach1@ford.com

Brand(s): Ford Motor Company, Ford, Lincoln, Mercury

Department: Product Development and Global Design

1-313-390-9553



Harold Allen

hallen1@ford.com

Brand(s): Ford

Department: Dallas Regional Office

1-214-528-7120



Sandra Badgett

sbadgett@ford.com

Brand(s): Ford, Lincoln, Mercury

Department: Los Angeles Regional Office

1-949-629-2036



Angela Coletti

acoletti@ford.com

Brand(s): Ford Motor Company

Department: Global News Bureau

1-313-390-1759



John Delle Monache

jdellemo@ford.com

Brand(s): Ford Motor Company

Department: Broadcast News

1-313-594-0520



Anne Marie Gattari

agattari@ford.com

Brand(s): Ford Motor Company

Department: Global News Bureau

1-313-322-9211



Ron Iori

riori@ford.com

Brand(s): Ford Motor Company

Department: Global Operations

1-313-337-2456



Susan Krusel

skrusel@ford.com

Brand(s): Ford

Department: Ford Division

1-313-594-4175



Rich Mayk

rmayk@ford.com

Brand(s): Ford Motor Company

Department: Broadcast News

1-313-845-0627



John Ochs

jochs@ford.com

Brand(s): Ford Motor Company

Department: New Media Team

1-313-337-3669



Glenn Ray

gray2@ford.com

Brand(s): Ford Motor Company

Department: Broadcast News

1-313-248-2335



David Reuter

dreuter@ford.com

Brand(s): Ford Motor Company

Department: Global Operations

1-313-594-4410



Deborah Sandford

dsandfor@jaguar.com

Brand(s): Jaguar

Department: Jaguar

1-949-341-6184



Lynne Slovick

lslovick@landrover.com

Brand(s): Land Rover

Department: Land Rover

1-949-341-6809



Kristine Testori

ktestori@ford.com

Brand(s): Ford Motor Company

Department: Process Leadership

1-313-594-3542



Beverly Thacker

bthacke2@ford.com

Brand(s): Ford Motor Company, Aston Martin, Ford, Jaguar, Land Rover, Lincoln, Mazda, Mercury, Volvo

Department: Broadcast News

1-313-317-7639



Donna Thomas

dthoma27@ford.com

Brand(s): Ford Motor Company

Department: Media Fleet

1-313-845-4613



James Thomas

jthoma98@jaguar.com

Brand(s): Ford Motor Company, Aston Martin, Ford, Jaguar

Department: Jaguar

1-949-341-6140



James Trainor

jtrainor@ford.com

Brand(s): Ford Motor Company, Lincoln, Mercury

Department: Lincoln Mercury

1-949-341-7689



Christian Vinyard

cvinyard@ford.com

Brand(s): Ford Motor Company

Department: Global Affiliates & Associations

1-313-594-7899



Rich Voytowich Jr.

rvoytowi@ford.com

Brand(s): Ford

Department: Detroit/Chicago Regional Office

1-313-390-5068



Kristie Winters

kwinter3@ford.com

Brand(s): Ford Motor Company

Department: Media Fleet

1-313-317-4453



Signed

If you are a car buyer would you like being treated like what is posted above? If not send a copy of this Rip Off Report to the following big shots at Ford motor Corp



Brenda Hines

bhines1@ford.com

Brand(s): Ford Motor Company

Department: Manufacturing

1-313-322-1185



Tom Hoyt

thoyt@ford.com

Brand(s): Ford Motor Company

Department: Centennial Operations

1-313-323-8143



Ron Iori

riori@ford.com

Brand(s): Ford Motor Company

Department: Global Operations

1-313-337-2456



Daniel Jarvis

djarvis1@ford.com

Brand(s): Ford Motor Company

Department: Ford Financial

1-313-594-2527



Paige Johnson

pjohns29@ford.com

Brand(s): Ford Motor Company

Department: Customer Satisfaction & Technologies

1-313-248-6820



Kristen Kinley

kkinley@ford.com

Brand(s): Ford Motor Company

Department: Environment & Safety Communications

1-313-845-2709



Joe Koenig

jkoenig@ford.com

Brand(s): Ford Motor Company

Department: Powertrain

1-313-845-9148



Susan Krusel

skrusel@ford.com

Brand(s): Ford

Department: Ford Division

1-313-594-4175



Meera Kumar

mkumar10@ford.com

Brand(s): Ford

Department: New York Regional Office

1-212-265-2793



Ed Lewis

elewis5@ford.com

Brand(s): Ford Motor Company

Department: Manufacturing

1-313-323-7809



Sonia Mishra

smishra1@ford.com

Brand(s): Ford Motor Company, Lincoln

Department: Global Product Development & Technologies

1-313-621-6089



Octavio Navarro

onavarr1@ford.com

Brand(s): Ford Motor Company, Ford, Lincoln, Mercury

Department: Los Angeles Regional Office

1-949-629-2033



Todd Nissen

tnissen@ford.com

Brand(s): Ford Motor Company

Department: Manufacturing

1-313-337-2786



Bob Roach

rroach1@ford.com

Brand(s): Ford Motor Company, Ford, Lincoln, Mercury

Department: Product Development and Global Design

1-313-390-9553



Harold Allen

hallen1@ford.com

Brand(s): Ford

Department: Dallas Regional Office

1-214-528-7120



Sandra Badgett

sbadgett@ford.com

Brand(s): Ford, Lincoln, Mercury

Department: Los Angeles Regional Office

1-949-629-2036



Angela Coletti

acoletti@ford.com

Brand(s): Ford Motor Company

Department: Global News Bureau

1-313-390-1759



John Delle Monache

jdellemo@ford.com

Brand(s): Ford Motor Company

Department: Broadcast News

1-313-594-0520



Anne Marie Gattari

agattari@ford.com

Brand(s): Ford Motor Company

Department: Global News Bureau

1-313-322-9211



Ron Iori

riori@ford.com

Brand(s): Ford Motor Company

Department: Global Operations

1-313-337-2456



Susan Krusel

skrusel@ford.com

Brand(s): Ford

Department: Ford Division

1-313-594-4175



Rich Mayk

rmayk@ford.com

Brand(s): Ford Motor Company

Department: Broadcast News

1-313-845-0627



John Ochs

jochs@ford.com

Brand(s): Ford Motor Company

Department: New Media Team

1-313-337-3669



Glenn Ray

gray2@ford.com

Brand(s): Ford Motor Company

Department: Broadcast News

1-313-248-2335



David Reuter

dreuter@ford.com

Brand(s): Ford Motor Company

Department: Global Operations

1-313-594-4410



Deborah Sandford

dsandfor@jaguar.com

Brand(s): Jaguar

Department: Jaguar

1-949-341-6184



Lynne Slovick

lslovick@landrover.com

Brand(s): Land Rover

Department: Land Rover

1-949-341-6809



Kristine Testori

ktestori@ford.com

Brand(s): Ford Motor Company

Department: Process Leadership

1-313-594-3542



Beverly Thacker

bthacke2@ford.com

Brand(s): Ford Motor Company, Aston Martin, Ford, Jaguar, Land Rover, Lincoln, Mazda, Mercury, Volvo

Department: Broadcast News

1-313-317-7639



Donna Thomas

dthoma27@ford.com

Brand(s): Ford Motor Company

Department: Media Fleet

1-313-845-4613



James Thomas

jthoma98@jaguar.com

Brand(s): Ford Motor Company, Aston Martin, Ford, Jaguar

Department: Jaguar

1-949-341-6140



James Trainor

jtrainor@ford.com

Brand(s): Ford Motor Company, Lincoln, Mercury

Department: Lincoln Mercury

1-949-341-7689



Christian Vinyard

cvinyard@ford.com

Brand(s): Ford Motor Company

Department: Global Affiliates & Associations

1-313-594-7899



Rich Voytowich Jr.

rvoytowi@ford.com

Brand(s): Ford

Department: Detroit/Chicago Regional Office

1-313-390-5068



Kristie Winters

kwinter3@ford.com

Brand(s): Ford Motor Company

Department: Media Fleet

1-313-317-4453



Signed

If you are a car buyer would you like being treated like what is posted above? If not send a copy of this Rip Off Report to the following big shots at Ford motor Corp



Brenda Hines

bhines1@ford.com

Brand(s): Ford Motor Company

Department: Manufacturing

1-313-322-1185



Tom Hoyt

thoyt@ford.com

Brand(s): Ford Motor Company

Department: Centennial Operations

1-313-323-8143



Ron Iori

riori@ford.com

Brand(s): Ford Motor Company

Department: Global Operations

1-313-337-2456



Daniel Jarvis

djarvis1@ford.com

Brand(s): Ford Motor Company

Department: Ford Financial

1-313-594-2527



Paige Johnson

pjohns29@ford.com

Brand(s): Ford Motor Company

Department: Customer Satisfaction & Technologies

1-313-248-6820



Kristen Kinley

kkinley@ford.com

Brand(s): Ford Motor Company

Department: Environment & Safety Communications

1-313-845-2709



Joe Koenig

jkoenig@ford.com

Brand(s): Ford Motor Company

Department: Powertrain

1-313-845-9148



Susan Krusel

skrusel@ford.com

Brand(s): Ford

Department: Ford Division

1-313-594-4175



Meera Kumar

mkumar10@ford.com

Brand(s): Ford

Department: New York Regional Office

1-212-265-2793



Ed Lewis

elewis5@ford.com

Brand(s): Ford Motor Company

Department: Manufacturing

1-313-323-7809



Sonia Mishra

smishra1@ford.com

Brand(s): Ford Motor Company, Lincoln

Department: Global Product Development & Technologies

1-313-621-6089



Octavio Navarro

onavarr1@ford.com

Brand(s): Ford Motor Company, Ford, Lincoln, Mercury

Department: Los Angeles Regional Office

1-949-629-2033



Todd Nissen

tnissen@ford.com

Brand(s): Ford Motor Company

Department: Manufacturing

1-313-337-2786



Bob Roach

rroach1@ford.com

Brand(s): Ford Motor Company, Ford, Lincoln, Mercury

Department: Product Development and Global Design

1-313-390-9553



Harold Allen

hallen1@ford.com

Brand(s): Ford

Department: Dallas Regional Office

1-214-528-7120



Sandra Badgett

sbadgett@ford.com

Brand(s): Ford, Lincoln, Mercury

Department: Los Angeles Regional Office

1-949-629-2036



Angela Coletti

acoletti@ford.com

Brand(s): Ford Motor Company

Department: Global News Bureau

1-313-390-1759



John Delle Monache

jdellemo@ford.com

Brand(s): Ford Motor Company

Department: Broadcast News

1-313-594-0520



Anne Marie Gattari

agattari@ford.com

Brand(s): Ford Motor Company

Department: Global News Bureau

1-313-322-9211



Ron Iori

riori@ford.com

Brand(s): Ford Motor Company

Department: Global Operations

1-313-337-2456



Susan Krusel

skrusel@ford.com

Brand(s): Ford

Department: Ford Division

1-313-594-4175



Rich Mayk

rmayk@ford.com

Brand(s): Ford Motor Company

Department: Broadcast News

1-313-845-0627



John Ochs

jochs@ford.com

Brand(s): Ford Motor Company

Department: New Media Team

1-313-337-3669



Glenn Ray

gray2@ford.com

Brand(s): Ford Motor Company

Department: Broadcast News

1-313-248-2335



David Reuter

dreuter@ford.com

Brand(s): Ford Motor Company

Department: Global Operations

1-313-594-4410



Deborah Sandford

dsandfor@jaguar.com

Brand(s): Jaguar

Department: Jaguar

1-949-341-6184



Lynne Slovick

lslovick@landrover.com

Brand(s): Land Rover

Department: Land Rover

1-949-341-6809



Kristine Testori

ktestori@ford.com

Brand(s): Ford Motor Company

Department: Process Leadership

1-313-594-3542



Beverly Thacker

bthacke2@ford.com

Brand(s): Ford Motor Company, Aston Martin, Ford, Jaguar, Land Rover, Lincoln, Mazda, Mercury, Volvo

Department: Broadcast News

1-313-317-7639



Donna Thomas

dthoma27@ford.com

Brand(s): Ford Motor Company

Department: Media Fleet

1-313-845-4613



James Thomas

jthoma98@jaguar.com

Brand(s): Ford Motor Company, Aston Martin, Ford, Jaguar

Department: Jaguar

1-949-341-6140



James Trainor

jtrainor@ford.com

Brand(s): Ford Motor Company, Lincoln, Mercury

Department: Lincoln Mercury

1-949-341-7689



Christian Vinyard

cvinyard@ford.com

Brand(s): Ford Motor Company

Department: Global Affiliates & Associations

1-313-594-7899



Rich Voytowich Jr.

rvoytowi@ford.com

Brand(s): Ford

Department: Detroit/Chicago Regional Office

1-313-390-5068



Kristie Winters

kwinter3@ford.com

Brand(s): Ford Motor Company

Department: Media Fleet

1-313-317-4453



Signed

In California we call this Grand Theft Auto. Someone steals the keys and refuses to give them back or to give the car back is a thief.



Also, we call it "Unlawful Detention" and "False Imprisonment" when we are not able to leave a retail facility of our own free will. I would have called the cops right away, but, I can see how rattled this person was.



I own a Ford Mustang myself and am shocked that these crooks are still able to sell cars in Arizona! Let 'em try it here and they will be in for quite a surprise!