Complaint Review: Goodyear - Gemini Auto Service

I'm a Master Mechanic, I have no connection with anyone or any businesses here.

The symptoms are plain and easy for any decent mechanic to diagnose even long distance on the internet.

Complaint, "The light on the dash comes on when the steering wheel is turned hard over, either left or right.(Note that the complaint is only when the wheels are turned while the engine is idling, this is an important clue)

Diagnosis (With explanations why this is happening)

When you turn the steering wheel, the power steering pump (Driven by the engine) boosts the steering effort, unless you are in a bind (Wheel hard against the curb for example) this is a small fraction of the pump's available power and causes no strain on the engine, it idles normaly.

When there is a strain, then more of the pump's power is needed to overcome the strain, as a result the engine needs to put more power to the pump, this causes the engine to idle slower (Note, not stall just slow down)

When you put the steering wheel "Hard Over" (Either left or right) the pump's power is increased to maximum output, this loads the engine much more than normal (whenever Not cramped "Hard Over")

Most engines have a throttle kicker to slightly boost the engine's speed when the pump needs more power, but not all do.

Modern cars use the engine computer to boost the throttle a slight bit when demand is higher.(Very heavy emphasis on "Slight" throttle increase, the designers do not want the engine to "Run Away")

So what we have is that the additional strain is loading down the engine thus lowering engine speed UNDER it's normal idle speed. This has absolutely nothing to do with the complaint of burned wires, spark plugs, or steering column repair, this is either in the throttle control (IAC- Idle Air Control) or in the engine computer programming.

Here's what's really happening.

Whenever the engine's speed is slower than designed idle, several things happen at once, first, since the speed is slower, all the engine driven accessories are also running slower (Also under designed speed) so for the brief period that the power steering demand is very high, the engine slows down, and all other things (Such as the alternator, water pump, power steering pump, etc) are also running below designed speed.

When the alternator runs underspeed, it does NOT produce electricity, this causes the warning light on the dash to come on, (Computer measures the electricity output, and since it's too low thinks the alternator has failed) and when the power steering load is removed the alternator speeds up to normal, is once again producing electricity, and the waening light goes out.

Simple, isn't it, the load from the power steering slows the engine, the alternator is then running too slow, and the generic "Check Engine" light comes on.

Proof is that when the load is reduced (No longer cramped all the way either left or right) the light goes out, if there was a major problem the light is designed to stay on.

To test, simply do this, the next time you have the wheel cramped over (Hard Over) just slightly press the throttle pedal (EMPHASIS ON SLIGHT) the light on the dash will go out, and return when you release the throttle.

Now, since you now know exactly what's happening, understand that it's entirely harmless, it could be cured (Depending entirely on what make model, engine, trans combination you have) either by slightly increasing the engines "Curb Idle" speed (The speed that the engine idles when sitting still with the automatic transmission in drive or reverse gear)Or by testing and replacing the IAC motor (Idle Air Control, remember)

But neither of these are in any way connected or related to your problem, as a final aside, after any major electrical repair the engine's computer needs to "Relearn" what the engine's settings are supposed to be, and since it requires a bit of experimenting to do this, it's entirely normal for any engine just worked on to undergo a short period (50 miles or less) while the engine runs weirdly while the computer resets.

So to finalize this, the light on the dash is caused by cramping the wheel hard over against the stops, both left and right, this causes the engine to slow, the alternator quits putting out electricity, the computer thinks the alternator has quit, the warning light comes on, and it's all harmless as the light goes out when the "Bind" ceases.

Clear now?
By the way, we Mechanics have this sort of thing happen all the time, unless you understand all the car's interrelated systems thoroughly it sometimes seems "Black Magic" to the average customer who has no idea just how complicated it really is.

Think of it like shooting pool, you hit a ball this way, it bounces off another ball, a third ball sinks in the pocket, and the onlooker says "Why did this ball fall in a pocket, you didn't hit that one"

Nowhere does Skott say anything about any warning lights coming on. He says "that lights on my dash came on". These "lights" could be anything, from the illumination lighting, turn indicators, to any number warning lights.

Again, there is NOTHING connected to the instrument panel, nor any of the lighting circuits, that is in any way related to the ignition circuits. They are completely seperate.

"It doesn't take a rocket scientist, master tech, or even a driver with over 30 years experience to know the problems are related. Ever notice when you turn the wheel to stop, the idle drops? Ever notice that when cars stall, the idle has dropped? The car won't sustain itself at normal idle, and at a near stall state, charging lights, oil pressure lights, check engine lights all may come on."

I've never turned the steering wheel to stop. I use the brake pedal. A long time ago, the brakeman on a train used a wheel to apply the brakes, but they all use air brakes now.

What a shock that the idle drops when the car has stalled. It dropped all the way to nothing. The charging light comes on because the alternator is not charging, the oil pressure light comes on because there is no oil pressure. The check engine light comes on because the computer is receiving no input signals anymore. This can be recreated by turning the key to the run position without ever starting the engine.

And again, NONE of these are in any way connected to the ignition circuit, which is what Skott took his car to Gemini for, to begin with. His car no longer stalls, because they fixed the problem. His "lights" issue is a seperate issue. He didn't like PAYing for the ignition repair, and wanted to get the other problem(s) fixed for FREE. If Gemini had done the "lights" issue repair for FREE, you can bet the bank Skott would be trying to get them to fix everything, from bald tires, to an empty gas tank for FREE.

Let's see, the car goes into the shop because it is stalling, and the complaint now is dash warning lights when the wheel is turned all the way. Ignition work was done.

It doesn't take a rocket scientist, master tech, or even a driver with over 30 years experience to know the problems are related. Ever notice when you turn the wheel to stop, the idle drops? Ever notice that when cars stall, the idle has dropped? The car won't sustain itself at normal idle, and at a near stall state, charging lights, oil pressure lights, check engine lights all may come on.

The problem was not resolved and the customer was blown off. I'd be pissed too. Who needs auto service centers who do their best work making excuses? I'll stick with a mechanic who wants to solve my problem, make me happy, and know I'll be back.

"You state as a fact: The "light" problem is not related to the "stalling" problem.

You may not know what the problem is, but you claim to know what the problem is NOT! All the way from Florida, you know it....you are becoming my hero!

I can tell you factually that the problem is NOT related to pacifiers, swamp gas, UFOs, or Cheny's "shot heard 'round the world". It is NOT related to divorce rates, abortion, bad drinking water or Mother Goose. It is NOT related to high-school dropout rates, interest rates at banks, ATM fees, Circuit City, or George W. Bush.

Kind of leaves the field wide open as to what it really IS, doesn't it?"

No Ben, it does not.

There are only 3 things required to make an engine run properly:fuel, air, and ignition.

You will notice "lights" is not on that list. There are completely seperate wiring harnesses on ALL vehicles for lighting, and engine management. No two systems are interconnected in any way. The ignition system never has anything to do with any "lights" whatsoever. And, there is no service manual ever printed that has the mechanic turn the steering wheel all the way left/right to check for a run problem. I know this because it is what I do for a living.

I would not begin to question your knowledge of medical equipment and how it operates. Yet, you stalk me everywhere I go in this site trying to question mine. And as always, you have never been able to find an error on my part, other than the ones you make up. You are a sad, strange, little man.

I do find it amusing that you selected an unattractive, overweight, loudmouth, female to be your alter-ego. It's very fitting...and probably very close to the truth.

"You may not know what the problem is, but you claim to know what the problem is NOT! All the way from Florida, you know it....you are becoming my hero! Anyone who would venture stating such a fact without having ever seen the vehicle is, again, a big fat fool! In fact, to attempt to diagnose any vehicle problem over the Internet is a waste of time."

Amazing isn't it Ben? While I cannot tell you what the part(s) that were bad are, I CAN tell you what it's NOT. This is because I do this for a living. If your engine has a run problem, it will involve one or more of 3 things, and only these three things. Air, fuel, ignition. That's it genius. Notice how "lights" wasn't in that short list? There are NO wires anywhere near ANYTHING dealing with the ignition system an ANY vehicle that are part of the same harness as the lights, of any sort. That being the case, it is very simple to determine that his "light" issue is completely unrelated to his "stalling" issue, which is why Skott took his car in for repair to begin with.

I asked before: "Could you be more stupid?". Apparently you could be.

"You may not know what the problem is, but you claim to know what the problem is NOT! All the way from Florida, you know it....you are becoming my hero! Anyone who would venture stating such a fact without having ever seen the vehicle is, again, a big fat fool! In fact, to attempt to diagnose any vehicle problem over the Internet is a waste of time."

Amazing isn't it Ben? While I cannot tell you what the part(s) that were bad are, I CAN tell you what it's NOT. This is because I do this for a living. If your engine has a run problem, it will involve one or more of 3 things, and only these three things. Air, fuel, ignition. That's it genius. Notice how "lights" wasn't in that short list? There are NO wires anywhere near ANYTHING dealing with the ignition system an ANY vehicle that are part of the same harness as the lights, of any sort. That being the case, it is very simple to determine that his "light" issue is completely unrelated to his "stalling" issue, which is why Skott took his car in for repair to begin with.

I asked before: "Could you be more stupid?". Apparently you could be.

"You may not know what the problem is, but you claim to know what the problem is NOT! All the way from Florida, you know it....you are becoming my hero! Anyone who would venture stating such a fact without having ever seen the vehicle is, again, a big fat fool! In fact, to attempt to diagnose any vehicle problem over the Internet is a waste of time."

Amazing isn't it Ben? While I cannot tell you what the part(s) that were bad are, I CAN tell you what it's NOT. This is because I do this for a living. If your engine has a run problem, it will involve one or more of 3 things, and only these three things. Air, fuel, ignition. That's it genius. Notice how "lights" wasn't in that short list? There are NO wires anywhere near ANYTHING dealing with the ignition system an ANY vehicle that are part of the same harness as the lights, of any sort. That being the case, it is very simple to determine that his "light" issue is completely unrelated to his "stalling" issue, which is why Skott took his car in for repair to begin with.

I asked before: "Could you be more stupid?". Apparently you could be.

"You may not know what the problem is, but you claim to know what the problem is NOT! All the way from Florida, you know it....you are becoming my hero! Anyone who would venture stating such a fact without having ever seen the vehicle is, again, a big fat fool! In fact, to attempt to diagnose any vehicle problem over the Internet is a waste of time."

Amazing isn't it Ben? While I cannot tell you what the part(s) that were bad are, I CAN tell you what it's NOT. This is because I do this for a living. If your engine has a run problem, it will involve one or more of 3 things, and only these three things. Air, fuel, ignition. That's it genius. Notice how "lights" wasn't in that short list? There are NO wires anywhere near ANYTHING dealing with the ignition system an ANY vehicle that are part of the same harness as the lights, of any sort. That being the case, it is very simple to determine that his "light" issue is completely unrelated to his "stalling" issue, which is why Skott took his car in for repair to begin with.

I asked before: "Could you be more stupid?". Apparently you could be.

You state as a fact: The "light" problem is not related to the "stalling" problem.

You may not know what the problem is, but you claim to know what the problem is NOT! All the way from Florida, you know it....you are becoming my hero!

I can tell you factually that the problem is NOT related to pacifiers, swamp gas, UFOs, or Cheny's "shot heard 'round the world". It is NOT related to divorce rates, abortion, bad drinking water or Mother Goose. It is NOT related to high-school dropout rates, interest rates at banks, ATM fees, Circuit City, or George W. Bush.

Kind of leaves the field wide open as to what it really IS, doesn't it?

Anyone who would venture stating such a fact without having ever seen the vehicle is, again, a big fat fool! In fact, to attempt to diagnose any vehicle problem over the Internet is a waste of time.

Try again, WonderMechMan! Try tying your hands behind your back for a day or two and see if you can break your addiction to typing stupid stuff at Rip-off Report.

I can just see you chewing through the ropes now....oooh! It makes me HOT!

First, the only people who use aliases are liars and charlatans. I get the feeling I know who this is anyway...The same person who already admitted they post BS in here as actual claims of being ripped off. If you are not her(and as far as I know, the truce is still in effect), then you're the Gomer from Cali who does his own share of trolling, while ignoring the space/time continuum. Personally, I could NOT care less. I find both of you amusing.

At what point did I say I knew what was wrong with Skott's car? The part where I said "Skott does not provide any actual details(year, make, model, parts, etc) so I have not made any assumptions about what was done."? Could you be more of an a*s? Please do show us all.

As for the shade trees, I wish the city would get rid of them. d**n leaves fall everywhere.

Why not let the customers watch what the mechanic is doing. I have nothing to hide. Apparently YOU do Rosey. You hide your name, town, and whatever work you claim you do.

And your misguided affection for my wrench size, leads me to believe you are Ben. Yep, old Ben seemed to have a real affection for me. He even suggested several homosexual acts he'd like to try with me, when he wasn't suggesting molesting children like he does. It's nice to see you are becoming the woman you always dreamed of. Now, go away.

Look how Robert is able to read the poster's mind all the way from Florida and tell us "accurately" what Skott in Washington really "meant".

Marvel at how Robert can diagnose Skott's car trouble from the other side of the country! Without even knowing what trouble lights were lit, Robert has the problem tagged!

With Robert the trouble is always the customer. His motto is "the customer is always wrong". It is all over this website.

Robert is a bitter person who delights in thumping his own drum. Robert acts like a troll, walks like a troll, sounds like a troll, and probably smells like a troll.

If you should go to Robert's shop (which I suspect is under a shade tree)he will allow you to stand right beside the mechanic or even sit in the mechanic's lap while the mechanic is working, putting both you and the mechanic in danger. He likes his work "up close and personal".

Robert has a big, big expensive toolbox but still uses little bitty wrenches. Why don't you mentally reach out with those wrenches and fix Skott's problem from across the country, Robert? Then I and others will know the strength of your true powers and can fall down in adoration of your superiority. Until then we must remain a bit skeptical and keep telling you to "Get lost".

Robert has a problem with my login identity. For all his super powers he does not seem to be able to "see" who I really am. I can only hope that it is driving him mad(der).

And, boy do I hope some of your customers see some of these posts you are making so they can know what you really think of them, Robert.

Robert is using this site as advertising to show his customers that his "shop" is NOT listed here. Which is fine, but he is also abusing the very thing he is using. Bad business, Robert! Bad, bad, bad Robert! Just because you are allowed to post without charge does not grant you license to abuse the rest of us and the owner of this site as well.

Now, little man, wrench away at ME for a while again. Leave the posters at this site alone for a short time. I will tag you as a troll wherever I find you unless you can offer something constructive to a poster. (HINT: Repeating "The customer is always wrong" over and over is NOT constructive).

You bait posters, I bait trolls.

For the rest of the readers, I now return you to your regularly scheduled posts. Pay no attention to the "man" behind the curtain waving around a little wrench. He is of no real importance except in his own mind.

Look how Robert is able to read the poster's mind all the way from Florida and tell us "accurately" what Skott in Washington really "meant".

Marvel at how Robert can diagnose Skott's car trouble from the other side of the country! Without even knowing what trouble lights were lit, Robert has the problem tagged!

With Robert the trouble is always the customer. His motto is "the customer is always wrong". It is all over this website.

Robert is a bitter person who delights in thumping his own drum. Robert acts like a troll, walks like a troll, sounds like a troll, and probably smells like a troll.

If you should go to Robert's shop (which I suspect is under a shade tree)he will allow you to stand right beside the mechanic or even sit in the mechanic's lap while the mechanic is working, putting both you and the mechanic in danger. He likes his work "up close and personal".

Robert has a big, big expensive toolbox but still uses little bitty wrenches. Why don't you mentally reach out with those wrenches and fix Skott's problem from across the country, Robert? Then I and others will know the strength of your true powers and can fall down in adoration of your superiority. Until then we must remain a bit skeptical and keep telling you to "Get lost".

Robert has a problem with my login identity. For all his super powers he does not seem to be able to "see" who I really am. I can only hope that it is driving him mad(der).

And, boy do I hope some of your customers see some of these posts you are making so they can know what you really think of them, Robert.

Robert is using this site as advertising to show his customers that his "shop" is NOT listed here. Which is fine, but he is also abusing the very thing he is using. Bad business, Robert! Bad, bad, bad Robert! Just because you are allowed to post without charge does not grant you license to abuse the rest of us and the owner of this site as well.

Now, little man, wrench away at ME for a while again. Leave the posters at this site alone for a short time. I will tag you as a troll wherever I find you unless you can offer something constructive to a poster. (HINT: Repeating "The customer is always wrong" over and over is NOT constructive).

You bait posters, I bait trolls.

For the rest of the readers, I now return you to your regularly scheduled posts. Pay no attention to the "man" behind the curtain waving around a little wrench. He is of no real importance except in his own mind.

Look how Robert is able to read the poster's mind all the way from Florida and tell us "accurately" what Skott in Washington really "meant".

Marvel at how Robert can diagnose Skott's car trouble from the other side of the country! Without even knowing what trouble lights were lit, Robert has the problem tagged!

With Robert the trouble is always the customer. His motto is "the customer is always wrong". It is all over this website.

Robert is a bitter person who delights in thumping his own drum. Robert acts like a troll, walks like a troll, sounds like a troll, and probably smells like a troll.

If you should go to Robert's shop (which I suspect is under a shade tree)he will allow you to stand right beside the mechanic or even sit in the mechanic's lap while the mechanic is working, putting both you and the mechanic in danger. He likes his work "up close and personal".

Robert has a big, big expensive toolbox but still uses little bitty wrenches. Why don't you mentally reach out with those wrenches and fix Skott's problem from across the country, Robert? Then I and others will know the strength of your true powers and can fall down in adoration of your superiority. Until then we must remain a bit skeptical and keep telling you to "Get lost".

Robert has a problem with my login identity. For all his super powers he does not seem to be able to "see" who I really am. I can only hope that it is driving him mad(der).

And, boy do I hope some of your customers see some of these posts you are making so they can know what you really think of them, Robert.

Robert is using this site as advertising to show his customers that his "shop" is NOT listed here. Which is fine, but he is also abusing the very thing he is using. Bad business, Robert! Bad, bad, bad Robert! Just because you are allowed to post without charge does not grant you license to abuse the rest of us and the owner of this site as well.

Now, little man, wrench away at ME for a while again. Leave the posters at this site alone for a short time. I will tag you as a troll wherever I find you unless you can offer something constructive to a poster. (HINT: Repeating "The customer is always wrong" over and over is NOT constructive).

You bait posters, I bait trolls.

For the rest of the readers, I now return you to your regularly scheduled posts. Pay no attention to the "man" behind the curtain waving around a little wrench. He is of no real importance except in his own mind.

Look how Robert is able to read the poster's mind all the way from Florida and tell us "accurately" what Skott in Washington really "meant".

Marvel at how Robert can diagnose Skott's car trouble from the other side of the country! Without even knowing what trouble lights were lit, Robert has the problem tagged!

With Robert the trouble is always the customer. His motto is "the customer is always wrong". It is all over this website.

Robert is a bitter person who delights in thumping his own drum. Robert acts like a troll, walks like a troll, sounds like a troll, and probably smells like a troll.

If you should go to Robert's shop (which I suspect is under a shade tree)he will allow you to stand right beside the mechanic or even sit in the mechanic's lap while the mechanic is working, putting both you and the mechanic in danger. He likes his work "up close and personal".

Robert has a big, big expensive toolbox but still uses little bitty wrenches. Why don't you mentally reach out with those wrenches and fix Skott's problem from across the country, Robert? Then I and others will know the strength of your true powers and can fall down in adoration of your superiority. Until then we must remain a bit skeptical and keep telling you to "Get lost".

Robert has a problem with my login identity. For all his super powers he does not seem to be able to "see" who I really am. I can only hope that it is driving him mad(der).

And, boy do I hope some of your customers see some of these posts you are making so they can know what you really think of them, Robert.

Robert is using this site as advertising to show his customers that his "shop" is NOT listed here. Which is fine, but he is also abusing the very thing he is using. Bad business, Robert! Bad, bad, bad Robert! Just because you are allowed to post without charge does not grant you license to abuse the rest of us and the owner of this site as well.

Now, little man, wrench away at ME for a while again. Leave the posters at this site alone for a short time. I will tag you as a troll wherever I find you unless you can offer something constructive to a poster. (HINT: Repeating "The customer is always wrong" over and over is NOT constructive).

You bait posters, I bait trolls.

For the rest of the readers, I now return you to your regularly scheduled posts. Pay no attention to the "man" behind the curtain waving around a little wrench. He is of no real importance except in his own mind.

Skott was ONLY concerned with how much he had to PAY. look at his 'caps'. He is having a fit about cost, nothing else.

Let's use your theory about the ignition switch. It is located on the outside of the column on most cars. Some are behind the dashboard. In NO car or truck is the ignition switch near the light switch, or the multi-function switch inside the column. Also, the wiring for the ignition switch is on the outside of the column. The rest of the wiring is inside. What could happen to one group, will not affect the other.

Skott does not provide any actual details(year, make, model, parts, etc) so I have not made any assumptions about what was done. If the ignition switch did melt, along with the wiring around it, it would take more than a few minutes. Most shops will do some work during the diagnostic time to rule out some issues. This could account for the timeframe he spoke of. I can tell you that the ignition module, coils, and adapter for a 2.3/2.4 Quad-4 are very expensive, and take 30 minutes to swap out. Typical bill for that job, including new plugs and tubes, is about $600, and is out the door in less than an hour.

Nope, Skott provides nothing of relevancy in his story...just alot of complaining about having to PAY for it.

The other issue is seperate, and has nothing to do with "stalling", which is why he took his car to a repair shop to begin with. Again, nowhere in any service manuals does the phrase "turn the steering wheel all the way to the left/right when checking for run problems" appear. This is the only way Skott is able to get the "lights" to turn on. And again, Skott has not said what "lights".

Skott just doesn't like PAYing for anything, and has the misunderstanding that the last mechanic is responsible for everything that happens to the car untill the next one works on it. It doesn't work that way, and very few people tell the truth about everything that is wrong with their cars.

The "light" problem is not related to the "stalling" problem.

Skott was ONLY concerned with how much he had to PAY. look at his 'caps'. He is having a fit about cost, nothing else.

Let's use your theory about the ignition switch. It is located on the outside of the column on most cars. Some are behind the dashboard. In NO car or truck is the ignition switch near the light switch, or the multi-function switch inside the column. Also, the wiring for the ignition switch is on the outside of the column. The rest of the wiring is inside. What could happen to one group, will not affect the other.

Skott does not provide any actual details(year, make, model, parts, etc) so I have not made any assumptions about what was done. If the ignition switch did melt, along with the wiring around it, it would take more than a few minutes. Most shops will do some work during the diagnostic time to rule out some issues. This could account for the timeframe he spoke of. I can tell you that the ignition module, coils, and adapter for a 2.3/2.4 Quad-4 are very expensive, and take 30 minutes to swap out. Typical bill for that job, including new plugs and tubes, is about $600, and is out the door in less than an hour.

Nope, Skott provides nothing of relevancy in his story...just alot of complaining about having to PAY for it.

The other issue is seperate, and has nothing to do with "stalling", which is why he took his car to a repair shop to begin with. Again, nowhere in any service manuals does the phrase "turn the steering wheel all the way to the left/right when checking for run problems" appear. This is the only way Skott is able to get the "lights" to turn on. And again, Skott has not said what "lights".

Skott just doesn't like PAYing for anything, and has the misunderstanding that the last mechanic is responsible for everything that happens to the car untill the next one works on it. It doesn't work that way, and very few people tell the truth about everything that is wrong with their cars.

The "light" problem is not related to the "stalling" problem.

Skott was ONLY concerned with how much he had to PAY. look at his 'caps'. He is having a fit about cost, nothing else.

Let's use your theory about the ignition switch. It is located on the outside of the column on most cars. Some are behind the dashboard. In NO car or truck is the ignition switch near the light switch, or the multi-function switch inside the column. Also, the wiring for the ignition switch is on the outside of the column. The rest of the wiring is inside. What could happen to one group, will not affect the other.

Skott does not provide any actual details(year, make, model, parts, etc) so I have not made any assumptions about what was done. If the ignition switch did melt, along with the wiring around it, it would take more than a few minutes. Most shops will do some work during the diagnostic time to rule out some issues. This could account for the timeframe he spoke of. I can tell you that the ignition module, coils, and adapter for a 2.3/2.4 Quad-4 are very expensive, and take 30 minutes to swap out. Typical bill for that job, including new plugs and tubes, is about $600, and is out the door in less than an hour.

Nope, Skott provides nothing of relevancy in his story...just alot of complaining about having to PAY for it.

The other issue is seperate, and has nothing to do with "stalling", which is why he took his car to a repair shop to begin with. Again, nowhere in any service manuals does the phrase "turn the steering wheel all the way to the left/right when checking for run problems" appear. This is the only way Skott is able to get the "lights" to turn on. And again, Skott has not said what "lights".

Skott just doesn't like PAYing for anything, and has the misunderstanding that the last mechanic is responsible for everything that happens to the car untill the next one works on it. It doesn't work that way, and very few people tell the truth about everything that is wrong with their cars.

The "light" problem is not related to the "stalling" problem.

Hi Robert, just a quick note to let you know that Skott does have a valid claim. If an ignition system "melted" as the shop owner stated it would take more than an half an hour to fix the problem. Your talking ignition wires, cap and rotor if vehicle is so equiped, not to mention related computor hardware. I'd like to know just what WAS replaced for the ammount stated. It sounds like the shop did work with the steering column since the ignition key and switch is located there. They probably messed up the wires in there. As for the $87 dollars that is a bit too high to hook it up to the diagnostic machine. I guess here where I live things are cheaper. I have a mechanic that I trust with my vehicles and the rates are VERY reasonable($45 Hr PRORATED) and the parts arn't marked up to the stratosphere. He does good work and I never have to bring the car or truck back for the same or different problems caused by bad work. I 've seen what it's like to be ripped off by shady shops. I had a friend who took her car to this one shop that over charged her for everything. She insisted that they were the best and refused to take her car elsewhere. I had to step in when they told her that the "carburator spindle bearings" needed to be replaced for $200! NO JOKE! There are none! Anyway back to the subject at hand, the shop was responsible for the lights staying on in my opinion. The car was brought in because it wouldn't run properly and they made it worse. Sound to me like the shop wants "repeat customers" at the customers expense. Or they really don't know what they are doing. People need to educate themselves on how their own vehicles mechanical systems work to keep from getting taken. As for my friend that I mentioned, I went to the shop, raised hell, told them they were crooks and liars and should be shut down. I fixed her carb problem myself with carb cleaner and a new filter. All for $8.00! (1994 prices) Then the long process of explaining how a car worked....and finding a better shop!

"I took my car in b/c the car was stalling out. I was told the whole ignition system had melted. They charge me $87 to LOOK AT IT..."

1)What a surprise the mechanics don't work for FREE.

"...then, long story short, I end up with a bill of $473.75! I asked when I could pick it up and I was told within an hour... come ON now. I'm no mechanic, but anything that can be done in LESS THAN an hour can't be that much, I thought."

2)Cost of parts has no direct correlation to cost of labor.

"It was mentioned that I needed spark plugs at which point I offered brand new ones I had just bought. I was charged $69.60 to put in 4 plugs!"

See observations 1) and 2).

"After this mess was over (I wasn't gonna argue or put up a fuss, I DID want my car back in good shape), I took it home and noticed--when I was parking--that lights on my dash came on. I hoped it was a fluke, but sure enough, it happened everytime i turned the wheel all the way."

3)This is an issue that has nothing to do with the reason they had your car..."stalling out". By your own admission, these 'lights' only come on when you put the wheels all the way left/right. This action has nothing to do with checking for a run problem.

"I dropped it off the next day and was told they did not see anything wrong when I picked it up. Not 1/2 mile down the road the lights came on. I drove back to show they guy and he DID NOT EVEN LOOK in my car, just stood outside and mumbled to me what was wrong with it."

See observation 3). Also, he was probably muttering something about your inability to reason.

"And guess what... HE WANTED ANOTHER $87 for diagnostics PLUS costs to fix the problem!! You get the pattern...."

Again, see number 1).

"I explained that the problem didn't exist YESTERDAY (day I got it back), and suggested that something happened during repairs. He INSISTED that it was a TOTAL separate problem... just a REALLY, REALLY big coincidence, I suppose. Ahem."

See number 3).