J Bar J Ranch, Janice And Jack Williams Sold me a show horse/brood mare that is lame and can't be bred. Spencer Tennessee
We bought a mare from Jack and Janice Williams that they assured us was sound and currently being ridden by their daughter in barrel races and themselves in mounted shooting. They also assured us that if we decided not to ride her she was a great producer and several neighbors had colts out of her. We found their ad on Dreamhorse.com and had visited with them on the phone, but did buy the mare without going to see her in person. They talked about being Christians and that "we" Christians need to take care of each other. When the mare arrived she was very thin and needed several weeks of feeding before we felt she was healthy enough to show. We rode her for a couple of short rides and agreed she was a very well trained horse.
When she was healthy enough to ride we started legging her up to show and after her first show she was unwilling to change leads. After a few more weeks of riding, she was limping. We started corrective shoeing, rest, massage, and bute. Vet x-rays of her knees showed only slight arthritis. Nothing seemed to alleviate her limping. We decided to breed her so our purchase wouldn't be a total loss. Our vet spent two months trying to AI her with no success.
We took her to a equine specialist that x-rayed her foot and found lower ring-bone, a condition that he said was old enough that she had to have had it when we got her. This specialist also tried AIing her for two months and after she still wouldn't hold a embryo for more than a month we tried pasture breed with no success. We now have a lame horse that can't be bred and have spent over $10,000 total on this venture.
We contacted Jack and Janice and told them everything we had done and that our vet said she had the lower ring bone when she arrived. We felt that if they were going to sell us a horses saying that "Christians take care of one another" that we could work out some sort of a refund. We didn't ask for reimbursement for all of our lost money, because as a horse owner you expect those kind of expenses. We offered to return her to them for a refund of our original purchase price. We also were willing to visit about other options. Their responses was "she isn't our horse, she's your problem now".
We just wanted to let others know about our experience because we have noticed that Williams have several horses for sale on Dreamhorse and we would hate for someone else to go through what we have.
Lied too by jack
KS, Kansas
U.S.A.
1 Updates & Rebuttals
J Bar J Horses, Janice Williams
Tennessee,USA
The Facts regarding the mare you bought.
#2
Tue, September 22, 2009
While I am truly sorry you have trouble with the mare you bought from us, I do feel it is necessary to include a few facts to your story. Yes, you bought the mare without seeing her. The mare was exactly as you were told she was. She was NOT thin or lame when she left here. She was in good flesh and had also been ridden within days of leaving here and was 100% sound at that time.
I owned this 1996 mare since she was a 2 yr old. She was originally broke by a trainer in Harriman, TN, who rode her for 2 years and can vouch for her soundness. I then rode her and trained her for cutting and reining until she foaled her first foal, a bay filly, in 2003. She was rebred for 2004 and foaled a sorrel colt, both with no problems. You can verify this with AQHA if you feel the need. She started riding again after weaning her 04 colt as we did not breed her back. I started her on a little roping and barrels and poles. She was shown in NBHA but never ran better than 4D times so my husband started her in mounted shooting. She was shown in that in the later part of 05 and all of 06 and did quite well in it. You then purchased her 03/07. There were not only 2 trainers that rode this mare over the years but hundreds of people that saw her show on many, many occasions. She also rode many miles in the mountains around here and in VA on trail rides and camping trips. My own mother and several other people had also ridden her.
Now, as to your claim the mare was lame when you got her, you say she had lower ringbone. Upon research and consultation with our vet, that is something that can develop in as few as 3 weeks or as long as a lifetime. The cause of it is basically one of 3 things: an injury or some trauma to the area, infrequent or improper shoeing, and/or a mineral deficiency (or perhaps a combination of the 3?). You failed to mention your call to us a few months after you got her telling us that your son did not like the mare so you Mrs.... had started riding her and had won High Point buckle with her at Ranch Horse shows, showing in multiple classes including cutting and were just so proud and thrilled with her (no mention of lameness at that time). Do your judges in KS place lame horses? I think not. Can a horse as lame as you say she was cut a cow. I think not.
You also called back some weeks later asking "why the mare had started jerking her head away when you tried to bridle her". I told you at that time that I did not know, she had not ever done that and to check her teeth or have a chiropractor check her neck for displacement. The next time we heard from you, months later, you had decided she had ringbone and you could not get her in foal. We have been in the horse business for 20+ years and have NEVER had someone ask for their money back or have a complaint against a horse we have sold them. How about that, you get to be the first!
Yes, indeed, we are Christians and I am very disappointed that you would slander us as you have and call yourself a Christian. We can lay our heads down every night with a clearconscience in ALL our horse dealings. I understand and do not hold hostility toward you if you needed money or perhaps just have some kind of unnatural feelings of victimization due to some unrelated experience in your past and needed someone to put blame on.
IF the mare is lame and will not get in foal, perhaps you should closely examine your horse management program to see where the problem is. She could have injured herself when you showed her if you did not properly condition her as she would work her heart out for you. She could have been shod at the wrong angle, or numerous other shoeing related issues. Truth of it is, she could have simply stepped wrong in the pasture and injured herself, anything is possible.
Do you even feed minerals? She always got Frank Lampleys Mineral & Protein mix here (as do all of our horses), one of the best that can be bought, found on many race tracks.
As for not getting in foal, who knows? We bred her twice, got 2 foals with absolutely no foaling problems (again, check with AQHA).
I have no idea how the mare was managed when she left here and frankly had no responsibility to her as of the time she stepped on the hauler's trailer that you sent out to pick her up. She became your total responsibility at that time and it is a real shame that a mare as good as that one has ended up in the situation she is in. I rode and loved that mare for 9 years and feel most sorry for her at this point.
I think it was most interesting that your husband made the comment to my husband (after having the mare approx a year and a half and then deciding he wanted a refund) that "it would cost him $15000 to replace that mare" when you only paid a fraction of that for her. Must have gotten a pretty darn good deal, huh. We have hundreds of past clients, many of whom we are now good friends with, that would vouch for our honesty in a heartbeat. Would you like me to send you the short list of them?
Please, if you buy another horse, get someone that is wise in the horse business to help you. Hopefully that way you don't feel victimized by someone else when the blame very well may lie within.
Best wishes to you. Janice Williams
ps..we are NOT horse 'traders'. We raise, train and sell ONLY quality horses.