Complaint Review: Kwik Kar

Just a word of advice from a senior master tech. Knowingly installing freon in a leaking system is illegal.

Like its said everyone does it but its still illegal.

That was my point. Paul, they do make a variety of electronic detectors(magic wands). None of them do much more than scream out when they do anything at all. Breather near one and you get the same screech that freon gives. Move it too fast and again it goes nuts. They are worthless...especially for the $200 they cost. I do educate my customers. But, for the majority of people out there who want price to be the determining factor in everything, you are fighting a hopeless battle. There is reason Walmart is the biggest company on the planet. Quality has nothing to do with it. Jerry had nothing to do with the reapir order, and should have been shown the door. Instead, Gregory tried to placate him. He wasted his time since Jerry went ahead and ripped him in this thread. You just cannot help some people. I think Larry has him pegged.

It was not the customer who was dissatisfied with what he got. It was his father-in-law who pitched a b***h. Gregory bent over backward to quiet down a non-customer who was not only not a party to the transaction but was not even present when it took place.

Jerry, who had no business complaining about a transaction between Gregory and Jerry's adult son-in-law, was not even man enough to acknowledge that Gregory had acceded to Jerry's unreasonable demands. Jerry used this forum to trash Gregory's reputation when Gregory did nothing to harm Jerry.

Jerry is just a loud-mouth trying to control not only his daughter and son-in-law but those with whom they deal. My guess is that Jerry has such a bad reputation around Forney that no one listens to him much.

I thought you added enough refrigerant to show up on the leak detector. Then, you evacuated the system and made the repair. I have done a few compressors in my time. Always a reman unit. I remember that you are supposed to put little screens into the ports to protect the new compressor from debris in the lines.

I know one thing. You have to educate your customer with some jobs. Otherwise, they'll have no idea what is involved and they will simply resort to price comparisons.

For example, Sir, you really should have two new rear drums installed. The ones you have are both scored and they won't clean up without going oversize. Now, I can put them back on, but you can't expect them to give you the same stopping ability as good brakes will. Tell me, if you are ever in a situation where you need to panic stop, will you have enough money to cover the accident?

Or, You know miss, your car is long overdue for a timing belt. We usually change the water pump and idler while we're in there. I can go through all the hoses and belts while I have it apart. Flush the radiator and add a new thermostat too. That way, you will be getting confidence for the long haul. Ask yourself, do you want to be stranded alone on a dark road some night? Maybe your children will be with you. How long before the tow truck gets there? And then, the cylinder head must be fixed. Bent valves. Look, I realize this will be expensive, but a lot less than the alternative.

Car knowledge. Sell value. Sell long-term reliability. That's how you get $500 average tickets.

The idea is to convince the customer that you have their best intentions at heart. That you want to keep their car running trouble free and for a long as possible. Not really that hard in this day of $30k new autos. It's the people that let their vehicles go until everything on the whole d**n car is worn out. Now, the only thing they can do is junk the sucker the minute something big goes.

But, when you keep after it month after month, you get 20 years of reliable trouble-free use. In the long run, that always works out to be your lowest cost per mile.

You just need to be the shop owner that is able to build a network of reliable customers that want to do that.

This is why the majority of A/C servicing is just recharging, not repairing. Mr Cheapo comes in and says his A/C is not working. The mech spends about 20 minutes going through the system and determines the freon is low, a leak obviously. What is not obvious, is where the leak is. The only way to find it is to add dye(the magic wands don't work) and more freon and have Mr Cheapo drive it for a day or two to get the dye to leak out. Mr Cheapo will drive the car untill the A/C stops working again, usually weeks on end, and comes back in whining that it wasn't fixed. "No s**t Sherlock...you were supposed to bring the car back the next day, not 2 months later". The leak is now found and Mr Cheapo is presented with a repair bill for about $1000(the average repair ticket for A/C work). Mr Cheapo figures out he can drive around for about 2 months with a recharge at $100(the guys who incorrectly use cans charge about $40) versus actually fixing the problem for $1000. Mr Cheapo will keep paying $100(or $40...he's Mr Cheapo) every 2 months untill the weather turns cooler and think he's saving big bucks. Mr Cheapo is a dumbass. Fixing it will be much less expensive in the long run, but Mr Cheapo doesn't care about the future. He also depends on Social Security to provide for him when he retires. The only other twist to this story comes when Mr Cheapo whines about having to pay for more freon when it leaks out because he didn't bring the car back the next day, when nearly all of it could have been recovered. "Too bad genius...you wasted it, not me". As for being illegal to recharge a leaking system, not unless it has R12 in it. FR12 and R134 can leak all day. Mr Cheapo is also the same nitwit who goes to the "4 wheel brake job-$78" places, the "$20 tune-up" places, and Walmart for ANYTHING at all. Mr Cheapo doesn't care about quality, he only cares about being CHEAP. When the quality isn't there AND it bites them square in the a*s, then they b***h and complain about how they were ripped-off by someone.

Why would you even be in the A/C business if all you can do is add more refrigerant to a leaking system?

Hell, the main reason that you are required to be certified and buy a machine is to prevent this kind of thing. You're not supposed to let the refrigerant get into the air.

But, that's exactly what happens when you add Freon to a leaking system.

Plus, you're setting yourself up for problems. What if all the refrigerant leaks back out in a week? Who pays $40 a week for air conditioning in their car?

What I can't understand is why you can't do the correct service. Compressors are bolted on the engine. Ask the Snap-on guy to show you what you need to buy to get them off.

You see, you invite complaints like this. The customer may know little or nothing about automotive air conditioning. So, they may be under the impression that the problem is fixed for $40. Meanwhile, the cold air lasts less than 2 weeks.

You're just asking to get one complaint after another by doing this.

Besides, you haven't fixed one single thing. What if plumbers just came and sucked out the water that was backed up in your clogged sink. Hey, the standing water is all gone. The owner says thanks. But, you know what's going to happen the minute they try to use the drain. The clog will still be there.

There is a difference between repairing a problem and covering up the symptoms.

Technicians repair problems.

If someone wanted me to refund a penny on something that was NOT their concern(i.e.-not the customer involved), I would have told them to leave. I only deal with the person who signs the repair order. As you said, the CUSTOMER had no issues with what you did. I think you went beyond what was required in this matter. Apparently, you have to deal with imbeciles there, as we all do. You also charge too little. I don't even consider hooking up my machine for less than $40 labor. The machine cost me $5K new and someone has to pay for it. My typical recharge with R134 is about $100, with FR12 it's about $150. People want everything fixed for free. Too bad. Sucks to be them. Don't worry, buy a "removinator" and attach it to your machine. This genius will be one of those who shoves a can of stop-leak into the system and you'll be the one to get a clogged up mess.

We aim to please each and every customer.

This customer's daughter's husband came in for a A/C Recycle/ Recharge since their A/C system was not working at all. Notice the service is labeled Recycle/Recharge. The charge for this service is $35.00 plus freon.

The car was hooked up to the A/C machine and the pressure reading did not show any problems with the a/c system. I then started to recharge the a/c system and the pressure reading showed a major pressure imbalance between the high and the low pressure side and the high pressure override was leaking all the freon out. At this time there is no use keeping any freon in the car so i suctioned out the remaining freon.

It is my policy that if an a/c problem is encountered, usually imbalance in the pressure readings, before the recycle/recharge process has been started I stop work and don't charge the customer. In this case there was no apparent problem so the service was begun. Once the machine has been hooked up and the service started you must charge the customer for the machine and labor involved.

We do not do any diagnostics or any major auto repair. We focus on preventative maintanence only and refer all customers to qualified mechanics for major repairs.

I did refund the money to the customer as I always strive for 100% customer satisfaction. He has not updated his complaint to state that all his money was refunded. I believe he was being unreasonable in not wanting to pay for the time and effort I put into his daughter's car, especially since he was not present at the time of service but I did refund the total amount of the invoice.

Also, it was his daughter's husband that brought the car in and he was ok with what I did. It wasn't until later in the day that I received a call from this man. He was not present at the time of service.

I don't know what his complaint is about having the proper equipment to do the work. I have an A/C System recycle/recharge machine and what is all I do.

To Jerry

Your post is a bit confusing. What exactly is your complaint? You admit that your wife went into Kwik Kar for a freon "refill" NOT a repair.

It seems that that is exactly what she recieved, from the price that was charged, about $40.00; it sounds like your wife had a pound of freon pumped into her vehicle.
It also sounds like the shop was nice enough to inform her that a future repair would be needed. This was not a "sell" tactic; because they admit that they could not do the repair.

This whole incedent sounds like a lack of knowledge by the customer, and maybe a lack of communication by both parties.

Here is a little "car care 101" :

Freon does not evaporate, the only reason that your wifes car (or ANY car, for that matter) would need a "refill" of freon is if there is a leak somewhere in the a/c system.
This means that a repair is needed, which means a part typically needs to be replaced. An a/c "repair" can be quite costly, even on a 1998 cavalier an a/c repair could cost well over $1,000.00 depending on what part(s) have malfunctioned.

Sometimes the leak in your car's a/c system can be small, and a $40.00 "refill" could keep you cool for 6 months, or more. Sometimes the leak is big, and the freon refill will only last a week, or better yet, a few minutes. This is the risk you take, as a customer who goes to a repair shop asking for a freon refill instead of asking for a diagnosis.

This time of year, shops all over the country will be swarmed by customers asking for a "freon refill". Most of the customers already know that an expensive repair is required, but they are hoping that a pound of freon will get them through summer, and sometimes it does...sometimes it doesn't, but it's worth the risk of the cost of a "refill".

Please do not blame Kwik Kar for giving your wife what she came in for; a "refill"....NOT a repair or diagnosis.

When you are ready to actually "fix" your a/c problem, bring the reciept from Kwik Kar to an a/c repair shop, if they are reputable, and want your business, they should work with you on your $40.00 "loss".