Complaint Review: Larry H Miller - Karl Malone Toyota - Sales Manager Brandon

I don't mean to be rude, but comparing cars to toasters is just dumb. Car dealers deal in cars. Cars are big ticket items. The markup on cars is high in dollar figures, but low compared to overall cost.

Wal-mart sells a variety of consumers goods. It is not a toaster dealer. Toasters represent a miniscule portion of Wal-marts overall profit margin. Only a real idiot would plop a toaster down on the counter and ask for $20 off. However, if you take that toaster to an assistant manager and ask for a reasonable discount compared to the value of the toaster (say maybe $2) and the conditions are right (e.g., the store has an overstock of that toaster, etc.) you most certainly can get a discount. That's called being a smart consumer, and there's absolutely nothing wrong with that.

As said before, buying a car should be a good experience, no doubt! I have personally been selling cars for about 4 years so I have encountered just about everything you could think of in the business. Also as said before, KBB, N.A.D.A, Edmunds, etc... are all just rough guides. If KBB says your car is worth more, then sell it to KBB! You obviously can't do that so it is your responsibility to be educated before you come into a dealership.

Why would I give you 10,000 for your trade if I could go to the auction and buy the SAME car for 8,000? I wouldn't, so, your car is worth 8,000. Now, if you pay FULL RETAIL price for mine, than I can probably give you a little more than wholesale for yours. But, now since you have negotiated with me and I am selling my car for lets say 500 over invoice, you also want RETAIL for your car? Lets say 10,000, so not only have we discounted our car 2,000 but we should give you 2,000 more for yours than it is worth? I think not. If you buy mine for retail than I will give you retail for yours, but, if you pay wholesale for mine than I will give you wholesale for yours! You can't have your pie and eat it too!

This is how we pay our bills, feed our kids, etc... If we sold everyone a car for invoice and gave you retail for your trade then we would go out of business! Oh, one more thing...go to Wal-Mart, pick out a toaster, bring it to the check-out lane, and offer them 20 bucks less than what the price is.... what do you think they would say? Why is it any different with cars? "what is the real price on this car?" customers say...ITS RIGHT THERE ON THE WINDOW!!!!!

I have worked for the Larry H Miller group on a few different occasions for some years now and Karl Malone Toyota utilizes the Larry H Miller Management Group but has only an investment in the Karl Malone Dealership and not full ownership.

If you did some more research you would be very suprised to see how much money has been put into "non-Larry Miller Dealerships" as well as other companies completely unrelated to his larger projects.

I truely wish that everyone that purchased cars always had a good experience, however, anytime prices are negotiated and not set there will always be someone (usually in hindsight) rethinking how the deal worked out. Sometimes it's the purchaser, sometimes the dealer (even though you will never hear those stories unless your work within a dealership).

With many, many meetings held the biggest topic is always how to better take care of our customers, this tells me that whenever this happens there was either large mis-communications or a failure on our part to reach our ultimate goal. Selling a car, part, or repair and having a happy customer in the process.

I wish you better car experiences in the future!

Greg
Kearns, UT

As a local automotive professional, the first thing I can tell you is Karl Malone Toyota is owned by Larry Miller, so look at both companies when looking for Rip-off reports. This was Larrys way of getting two Toyota dealerships in the same PDA, a great start in showing the mentality of these guys. If the owner is kinky, the rest of the organization is as well.

This should be a great experience, buying a car should be exiting and fun. Unfortunately, there are some who ruin the experience.

Remember, if you are unhappy with the deal, or the way you are treated, get up, and walk out. Get a second opinion. Period. I close deals for my dealership every day. I always tell people on the edge, "If you dont feel comfortable with anything that has happened here, please go home and think about it." I know that sounds unbeleivable, but I would rather have repeat and referral business than a one-time sale.

I will not name my dealership because I feel it would be unethical, but we are out here. Selling new Toyotas. Get a second opinion!!!!

Our philosophy is this... All we sell is service, we want our service to be the best. Anything less and you are cheating yourself out of what should be a great experience!

KBB and Nada ARE great guides, but that is exactly what they are... Guides. You are emotionally attached to your car, it has most likely served you well. To me it is steel, rubber, and glass. I do look at it as a wholesale piece, in other words, what its worth is at auction. If I cant sell it to a retail buyer, I will sell it to a wholesale buyer, and I dont want to lose money when I do. Often we'll call several wholesalers or franchised used-car managers, and get a "bid to buy", the ACV (actual cash value) of your trade in. I know it is never enough, but it is an unemotional "real" value.
Now they may tell you it is worth less (called an under-allowance) and remember it is like buying the new or used car, NEGOTIABLE! The dealership is buying your car while you are buying thiers! Its that simple... NEGOTIATE!

BTW - Black book is not used in this part of the country, nor is Galvin(?) . You can ask for a MMR report here in SLC, and it will tell you the true wholesale value, as it is what your car brought at auction. Remember, though, it too is a guide, you may have a better car than the one that sold at auction, or yours may be worse. As I said earlier, get a second opinion!

Good luck and have fun, or, stand up and leave!

I'll be here to treat you right.

Buying a car can and should be a pleasant experience. Unfortunately, it often turns into a "battle" between the salesman and the buyer.

If you start to get nasty, negative comments from the dealer, then you have a simple, easy option: walk out. You can smile, be pleasant, and say "thank you for your time"...and then leave. Simple and easy.

Now...with that being said, many (underline the word MANY) folks have delusions about what their current vehicle is worth. KBB and Edmunds can give you a ballpark estimate of the value, but they are not written in stone. For example, If you're trading in a 2002 Toyota Sienna with 55K miles, it glows in the dark, no french fry invasions in the back seats, no overnight affairs with Maaco, the seats look hovered in, and it feels/looks/drives like 20K miles, then the dealer will step up to the plate and offer you WHOLESALE value. Yes, that is not a misprint. WHOLESALE. It doesn't matter if KBB says your Sienna is worth $18,0 in "excellent condition", if the dealer can buy them all day long at the local Manheim dealer auction for $16,5, then that's what your van is worth to them. In fact, most dealers try to stay $500 to $1000 back of auction price.

So the point is, use KBB and Edmunds as a guide, not as a guaranteed value.

You will ALWAYS get more money by getting with the local detail doctor, putting a big 5-liner fat daddy ad in your local sunday paper, and retailing it yourself. If you have all the service records and do a great job on the detail, and price the vehicle right, it won't last long. Ask too much for it...and it'll sit and rot in your driveway...

Anyway, that is my advice as ol' Paul Harvey says...for what it's worth.

By the way...the next time you are at a dealership and they give you a value on your trade, ask to see the "black book" or "Galvans" value. The Black Book is the values from the dealer auctions, and that is what most dealers use for setting the trade in price.