Lou Grubb Dodge ripoff Financing games Phoenix Arizona
Much like the previous report on Lou Grubb Financing department the Names remain the same the next customer arrives with another complaint about unfair, unethical, and plain fraudulent lending.
I started my quest for a 05' Dodge Magnum RT in early spring. I had been waiting for this car for a long time and was eager to purchase one but not at the sticker price. I walked out of at least half a dozen dealerships within the course of a month. This seams to be the only way to get their attention that you are serious and less likely to take any fuzzy math or empty promises.
Well I got it half right I got the car for the price I wanted to pay (Thank you Mike Gardner) but what I didn't count on was the games the finance department had in store for me. They approved me for 8.9% on a 585 FICA which is reasonably good. I tried to wait till financing was final, as I had no problem waiting and didn't want to suffer the last minute we got a problem we need to turn your wallet inside out speech.
My salesman Mike Gardner and the acting finance guy Steve Jakeman insisted please take the car home, don't worry, things look great. The scam was to follow shortly. I didn't hear a word from the finance department for weeks despite repeated phone calls to the first finance guy Steve Jakeman, the new car sales manager Thomas Sherby, and the infamous Lonnie Mr. Eastcoast finance director.
I knew the gig was up after the first week and I held my trade at my house due to no phone call. I was not going to let them hook me into a worse deal by selling my perfectly good trade from underneath me, leaving me no choice but to take what ever they would give me. The phone calls continue no word. Finally I get my salesman Mike on the phone and I ask what the F is going on? He gets them to call me and the haggling begins!
Steve Jakeman
We need another 5000 dollars down, to get this deal done
Me
You mean on top of the other 5000 in my trade?
Steve Jakeman
I see only 3000 in the trade
Me
So my trade is worth less than two weeks ago
Steve Jakeman
That's what's on the paper work
Me
Steve what did we agree on when I left the dealership Tues (Jun 26th)"?
Silence
/////////
Me
This is exactly the kind of F'n bullsh** I didn't want to deal with
Steve Jakeman
Well it's not our job to provide financing we're just doing the best we can
Me
Yes, at ripping me off. I didn't need to leave your dealership in that car I left my perfectly good corvette in the parking lot for a night because you and Mike insisted I take it home and to not worry about it
Steve Jakeman
daaaaaa
Me
You will have to find a way to make it work Steve; this is not going to be my problem
Oh but It already was my problem, much like the single mother who wanted a fair shake on a new pickup. Another week passes, no calls, no trade at the dealership because it's in my front drive way, and not a single stress free moment in my mind.
After contacting Mike Gardner a fifth time (who has been sick, mother in the hospital, on vacation) I would like to believe him 100% because he did his part and he always came through when I called. Hopefully Mike can understand this as I believe he is sand up guy, but I have concerns and it's just hard to know how deep these scams go.
I get a call from Thomas and go down to the dealership to sign the paperwork. They now say they have a conditional approval from Chrysler. Ok I think cool a Rebate of 1000 is currently being offered. (And my previous truck was with them, one late payment in 4.5yrs) they still need more money 4000 dollars. I think ok I will meet them in the middle it's coming of he principle balance right? And I'm getting an addition 1000 rebate!
Wrong he comes back with a 17.53APR!!!! I nearly exploded; I couldn't believe my eyes.
Me
What kind of games are you guys trying to play back there?
Thomas Sherby
What games!
Me
Look, I met you half way on your screw up and then you try and change the APR
Thomas Sherby
Well that's what he conditional approval was for
Me
You're going to sit there and tell me that B+ credit is fetching a 17.35 these days?
Thomas Sherby
We don't have to provide financing
Me
I know just like you don't have to stand behind your promises
I finally take the key of my key chain and toss it on the table
Me
I think we are done with the bullsh**, take your car and give me back my deposit
Then Mike Gardner comes over and tries getting me to calm down, I'm so upset I had to fight back the urge to go postal on every one of the finance guys. I understand that numbers may have to swapped around to make it work for the individual, but what they were doing was out and out fraudulent.
The part the dealership doesn't know that I received a letter of conditional approval from Chrysler one day prior to our meeting (good thing they dragged their feet) I called a number and no not the one on the letter, the real number the one that reaches Chrysler senior loan purchasers (maybe I should list that as well)
See only the dealerships are supposed to have it. The public isn't supposed to know that the rebate from Chrysler actually comes from the a** end of the loan, that's right your money!!!! And to make matters worse for the consumer its violation of fair lending practices. They drive your credit into the ground by putting it through at a higher price, one you may not be able to afford then bottle neck you through Chrysler Financial for profit.
The above and the real APR that was approved by Chrysler Financial (which I will not disclose for legal recourse matters) Is soon to be in the hands of the BBB and the Arizona attorney general, and broad cast via live the internet. Thanks to Rip-Off Report and many others.
Lonnie remembers you told me you've been off by more than 8 points before. Explain that to Joe Public and the powers that be how that is .Mr. East coast.
Dustin
85032, Arizona
U.S.A.
Click here to read other Rip Off Reports on Chrysler & Chrysler Products
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11 Updates & Rebuttals
Dustin
85032,Arizona,
U.S.A.
More interesting news
#12Author of original report
Thu, December 16, 2004
Been A while but still hacked off that pretty much everything listed above has not only transpired but that they pretty much got away with it. The effort and time it's taken for me to combat the issue feels like a complete waste of time.
only one thing that has been productive in my mind, providing this information so others do not follow in my footsteps. I still have not been able to get the Gap insurance dropped, I ended up paying the third party 2,000.00 dollars becuase on paper it was legally owed to them regaurdless of if Lou Grubb kept their end of the bargain. I have been scrutinizing my credit over the period I did buisness with them. I discovered they had repeatidely run my loan through 18 individual lenders at an inflated amount. This wouldn't ordinarily be a problem but they conducted this fradulent activity over the course of two months. Basically taking my slightly above average credit (685 in june) and dragging it through the gutter to 575 by the end of august.
This is what really steams me, they had approval through Chrysler Financal the entire time. They were just running my credit into the ground then spiting the difference between themselves and Chrysler Financial. I'm letting the state attourney handle this becuase frankley I'm tired of the bullshit and games/wasted time. DON'T LET THIS HAPPEN TO YOU!!!
A buisness associate of mine recently purchased a Brand new F150 Crew Cab from them and had some issues with it. Get this they practically gave him a new truck and did about everything possible to make him happy with the situation. I can't even get them to drop an unessesary insurance policy or return a phone call.
Come to find out they've cleaned house down at Lou Grubb, all new staff. The other group of bastards finally got what was coming. I pray they met asphalt face first at 50mph.....but in reality they are working at another dealership like vultures in heat. Be Careful out there people car salesmen are like lawyers only they don't provide a service.
Maggie
Phoenix,Arizona,
U.S.A.
found out that I was actually better off in the small town I am from
#12Consumer Comment
Thu, September 30, 2004
Thank You All... I first came onto this website to find a good dealership, because I thought, now that I can look in the big city, I can find a better deal.
Well, I found out that I was actually better off in the small town I am from. I went there this last week. Two/three hours from Phoenix, but I didn't worry about being screwed over. You want a good deal on a good vehicle?
sorry, allowing you to give a competitors name would instigate others to just file against their competition, to only come back later to suggest their company your comments on this policy are welcome! CLICK here to see why Rip-off Report, as a matter of policy, deleted either a phone number, link or e-mail address from this Report.
This company has been ran by the same family for something like 50 years. The salesman who just sold me my windstar has been in this town selling cars for a long time. His name is Julian. Couldn't be happier with the van I brought home. No bullshit either. I even looked on the Kelley Blue Book. They listed my van $200.00 more than what I paid. No "hostage" crap, no BS, If they can't make the deal, they'll let ya know.
Maggie
Phoenix,Arizona,
U.S.A.
found out that I was actually better off in the small town I am from
#12Consumer Comment
Thu, September 30, 2004
Thank You All... I first came onto this website to find a good dealership, because I thought, now that I can look in the big city, I can find a better deal.
Well, I found out that I was actually better off in the small town I am from. I went there this last week. Two/three hours from Phoenix, but I didn't worry about being screwed over. You want a good deal on a good vehicle?
sorry, allowing you to give a competitors name would instigate others to just file against their competition, to only come back later to suggest their company your comments on this policy are welcome! CLICK here to see why Rip-off Report, as a matter of policy, deleted either a phone number, link or e-mail address from this Report.
This company has been ran by the same family for something like 50 years. The salesman who just sold me my windstar has been in this town selling cars for a long time. His name is Julian. Couldn't be happier with the van I brought home. No bullshit either. I even looked on the Kelley Blue Book. They listed my van $200.00 more than what I paid. No "hostage" crap, no BS, If they can't make the deal, they'll let ya know.
Maggie
Phoenix,Arizona,
U.S.A.
found out that I was actually better off in the small town I am from
#12Consumer Comment
Thu, September 30, 2004
Thank You All... I first came onto this website to find a good dealership, because I thought, now that I can look in the big city, I can find a better deal.
Well, I found out that I was actually better off in the small town I am from. I went there this last week. Two/three hours from Phoenix, but I didn't worry about being screwed over. You want a good deal on a good vehicle?
sorry, allowing you to give a competitors name would instigate others to just file against their competition, to only come back later to suggest their company your comments on this policy are welcome! CLICK here to see why Rip-off Report, as a matter of policy, deleted either a phone number, link or e-mail address from this Report.
This company has been ran by the same family for something like 50 years. The salesman who just sold me my windstar has been in this town selling cars for a long time. His name is Julian. Couldn't be happier with the van I brought home. No bullshit either. I even looked on the Kelley Blue Book. They listed my van $200.00 more than what I paid. No "hostage" crap, no BS, If they can't make the deal, they'll let ya know.
Stick - Consumer Advocate
Phoenix,Arizona,
U.S.A.
Dustin you might find this info helpful. Can't say who is right or wrong,
#12Consumer Suggestion
Thu, September 23, 2004
"Disclaimer" I Stick am not saying who was right or wrong in the info below. I am saying that Dustin might find helpful info. I Feel that Dustin should have a chance to talk to the plaintiffs in the cases below.
Hey Dustin Not here to bash anybody but you might find some good info in the below URL's. Below are a few cases that might be informative reading.
Can't say who is wrong or at fault in the below. But contact the plaintiffs in these cases, maybe you might find info that will help you in your situation.
Maybe there is a trend that you have not found yet. Many car dealers have all kinds of scams that are never reported to the car buying consumers by the TV and newspaper media because of all of the advertising money they get from car dealers.
My labor of love is to find info that "I FEEL" might be helpful and post it for you.
http://www.superiorcourt.maricopa.gov/docket/civil/caseInfo.asp?caseNumber=CV2003-005333
Plaintiff is
BillieJean Esses
http://www.superiorcourt.maricopa.gov/docket/civil/caseInfo.asp?caseNumber=CV2004-009856
Plaintiff is
FrancesFessler
http://www.superiorcourt.maricopa.gov/docket/civil/caseInfo.asp?caseNumber=CV2003-016832
Plaintiff is
StevenK Mills
This one is good reading, I wonder what happend in this case!
http://www.superiorcourt.maricopa.gov/docket/civil/caseInfo.asp?caseNumber=CV2004-011164
http://www.superiorcourt.maricopa.gov/docket/civil/caseInfo.asp?caseNumber=CV2003-003427
The Plaintiffs in this case are
JasonSchechterle
SuzieSchechterle
FrederickSchechterle
BetteSchechterle
http://www.superiorcourt.maricopa.gov/docket/civil/caseInfo.asp?caseNumber=CV2004-017675
Plaintiffs are
SherylA Carder
StephenJ Carder
Just trying to be a good Rip Off Report Advocate.
By the way, If you love what ripoffreport.com stands for, Show your appreciation in anyway you can. The Editor is doing some things that will make it even better for a consumers and he could use all the help he can get.
Bruce
Salt Lake City,Utah,
U.S.A.
585 is not B+ credit
#12Consumer Suggestion
Thu, September 23, 2004
It looks like your are nearing an end with these guys, and may come out having not played all the dealership games, good work!
One comment though. A 585 is hardly B+ credit. The AVERAGE credit score in the USA is 650(ish). If that is average (C), a credit score below 600 is D- at best.
Dustin
85032,Arizona,
U.S.A.
spoke with a third party consulting group, Employed by AutoNation (Lou Grubb Dodge). It's such a sham how these finance people not only rip off the consumer
#12Author of original report
Tue, September 21, 2004
Employed by AutoNation (Lou Grubb Dodge). It's such a sham how these finance people not only rip off the consumer but insurance companies and litigation firms.
Example - Use a company to insure a check issued from the vehicle purchase. Continue to stonewall the customers' attempts to resolve gap insurance policy that is not necessary. Consumer puts stop payment on check due to no paperwork filed with lender yet (45 days???) and no gap insurance policy was even necessary to begin with due to the size of the down payment.
Litigation or check Guarantee Company is now on the hook check and is just about as miffed as I. They have all the paperwork except for the numbers and they're Xerox copies!!! Isn't that strange..... I mean why not send a ligitament copy, don't they want to prove that the check was a legitimate part of the deal?
This should make everyone wake up to the fact that most car dealerships do not care at all. They bend and tweak the rules as much as possible without getting caught and they are so used to the game it's child's play for them and a battle for you. You're already at a disadvantage once you've set foot through the door. Although I do find the little psychological games they play humorous, but when it comes to my money and cheating the system well that's where it ends.
I asked the Litigation consultant to send me a notarized copy of my contract certified mail so that I can check the numbers. They are interested in these numbers as well since if I don't pay the money they will have too. And from the sounds of it they do a lot of shelling out to misleading sales people so much in fact that they are filing a claim within their own company and I made mention of ripoffreport.com as well.........they had already seen it and I think they are going to pursue this matter further.
Either way my attorney and I remain confident that this will be resolved soon. It's getting to be pretty high profile now that this has taken place. Sure tells you something when the litigation company has heard a lot about the company that you tried to do business with, let's see if Lou Grubb can make these numbers appear on a legitimate piece of paper? This will not go away until they produce the original Paperwork!!!!
Stay tuned for more of the same to come I'm sure
Dustin
85032,Arizona,
U.S.A.
They got me on the window tint as well.....
#12Author of original report
Sat, September 04, 2004
Mike......Thank you for taking the time to write in on my topic. I need all the motivation I can get when it comes to dealing with Lou Grubb. It absolutly exhausting to say the least, you'd think you're safe at a dealership that has a no commition sales structure but there's always some way it seems that this kind of misleading and basically immoral buisness practice is common place in the auto sales industry.
It's a d**n shame too!!! because I waited a d**n year for this car to come out and it has been hell just trying to get one. At every step of the way the dealerships in this valley have jerked me around just to get me to show up at the dealership. I've written a long letter to Chrysler/Dodge explaining my whole ordeal and how a loyal Dodge enthusaist almost had to purchase another brand of vehicle due to it.
I will tell you this Mike, The car is absolutly the best Dodge product I've ever driven, incredably fast, smooth and will cause accidents with rubberneckers trying to sneek a glimce. Don't give up on this car if you really want it, you won't regret it!!!
Thanks again, much luck to you on your quest to purchase a Magnum. I'm glad someone benifited from my info, certainly means a lot to me that Lou Grubb will be selling one less car this year and frustrating another consumer.
Can't say enough to thank Rip Off Report/BadBB for giving a place to the people for getting the facts straight from the consumer, it's worth it's weight in gold!
Michael
Yuma,Arizona,
U.S.A.
Lou Grubb almost got me!!! Thanks Dustin, and ripoffreport.com for the heads up!
#12Consumer Comment
Sat, September 04, 2004
I too am looking for an '05 Dodge Magnum RT. Frederick Zolicoffer from Lou Grubb contacted me and we started negotiations for a car. They didn't have any in stock I wanted but one was "Coming". I gave him my information to submit to Chrysler Financial and I thought everything was fine. But when I started pressing for actual figures for fees and options on the "soon-to-be-here" car, Fred "hemmed and hawed" and would not give me direct answers. I then asked him what was the exact APR rate I was going to get but all he would say is it was low but he would call me back with an answer. After three tries the next day I got ahold of him. Again you could tell he did not want to give me answers but I pressed anyway.
Two things came up during this call started me thinking something was up. 1) He was charging me for window tint and another couple of options that he would not define. 2) He quoted me a very low APR which I thought was odd. I already know my FICO Score and already have alternate financing through Capital One. The APR Fred quoted was much lower than Capitals which is already supposed to be the lowest in the industry I could qualify for. I then asked him again to verify what I was getting and call me back as I had alternate financing (I didn't specify details) and if Chryslers APR was actually better I would use them instead.
The price I was getting on the car was pretty good and if I could actually get that APR things would be dandy indeed.
The window tint charge bugged me though so I went back to the Dodge web site and looked up the standard RT features. IT ALREADY INCLUDES PRIVACY GLASS as a standard feature!!!! They were going to try to charge me for it!
Its been two days now and Fred has not called me back. I was thinking of driving over and going face to face but now that I read Dustins (and that single mothers) experience, which basically confirmed my suspisions, there is no way I am going to deal with them.
Dustin
85032,Arizona,
U.S.A.
Paper work still has not reached Chrysler Financial
#12Author of original report
Fri, September 03, 2004
Chrysler financial still has no record of my contract...... Stalling the paperwork? Changing the Paperwork? Who knows because I have not received not one call in regards to my request for information or resolution......
Gap insurance is still in the numbers, called Chrysler can't get that done until the paperwork arrives! Imagine that....Gave the state Attorney another call with that update on Lou Grubb
Of course they are not going to call, but I'm keeping track of every single call that is placed. My attorney is very confident that this will be settled soon, which doesn't concern me as much as I will take it to the very end . I'm not filing for damages either, just to cover my legal fees and to make sure this deal is fair and honest for me and the next guy ..that's the plain truth. I'm sick and tired of this kind of atmosphere every time I've purchased a car, I love the vehicle but the sales people and finance crew make it a absolutely miserable experience with misdirection and trickery.
more to follow
*Lou Grubb dragging feet slowly behind*
Dustin
85032,Arizona,
U.S.A.
Called Chrysler Financial, Truth in lending will set you free
#12Author of original report
Thu, August 12, 2004
---------Interesting!!!--------------
Usually when you sign a deal for a car at an agreed upon amount it stays the same with the lender. Evidently the fuzzy math at Lou Grubb Dodge has spilled over to Chrysler financial. The 26,785.00 I financed on paper has grown to 28062.15, a mistake? oversight? Better get it together Mr. East Coast looks like a dark forecast for your shady ways.
Other interesting phone calls today
Arizona State Banking Department - In regards to the 499.00 ANFS - gap insurance policy through L.G.D.'s partner in crime Auto Nation. Fortunately for me I have insurance and a gap policy that cost 100.00 for the same coverage, actually better! Because it's not amortized over a six year period, get your hand stuck in the cookie jar Lonnie?
A lawyer - This was unfortunately necessary due to the contract I signed. But Lou Grubb Broke it not I. Truth in lending will set you free I say. And there is no better way to get message across than with a blood thirsty attorney.......
There's a 2,000$ check you're holding till the 14th of Aug. I dare you to cash it, It will certainly be your undoing
enjoy the meal guys, more to come