Lyoness, Lyoness Australia Pty Limited STAY AWAY FROM LYONESS. SCAM SCAM SCAM. Sydney, Australia NSW
I am a gold member of lyoness. Lyoness is a true scam. I can responsibly tell you this. STAY AWAY FROM LYONESS. Do not ever buy gold membership. I am going to tell you why.
First of all, I just spoke with their representative on the phone. They officially confirmed to me that all the discounts that you get in a form of cash back to your account are only redeemable towards purchases through Lyoness. You will never get any real money from them. I called to find out how to withdraw the accumulations in my cash account. They said - only by purchasing vouchers. Period. This means the stories of people making large amounts of money monthly are simple lies. Anyone who states otherwise is either a dreamer or is paid by Lyoness to say so.
Secondly, if you've seen the Lyoness videos, you've noticed that there is a complicated system of units that is very hard to grasp. Why do you think these units were created? Why not just stick with good old numbers - you spend this much, you get this much in cash, this much in bonus, this much in affiliated bonus, whatever else they may offer, everything can be expressed in dollars. No! Lyoness created units for you not to think of numbers. Why? Because if you start thinking numbers, you'll be running away from Lyoness as fast as you can.
Let's translate units into dollars.
When you, being a Lyoness member, make a purchase from a Lyoness merchant, you receive a small discount (0.5% for buying from Coles Express, for example), and a larger loyalty bonus. Of course, knowing that Lyoness charges up to 10% from the merchants, no one would go for 0.5%, so they created a loyalty bonus system. tOn top of 0.5% cash (just discovered that this cash is only redeemable towards purchases from Lyoness merchants), you receive 2-3-5% of loyalty bonus that eventually forms your UNITS. Every time you loyalty bonus accumulates to $75, you get one unit of Accounting Category I (ACI). How much do you have to spend to get an ACI? If you only buy expensive things from merchants Lyoness scammed for a higher discount, you might be able to get a unit by spending $1,500.00. But if you do what Lyoness advertises – “spend money on your everyday needs, just like you always do”, the realistic number will be closer to $2,500.00 You don’t get anything by forming a unit. The first bonus of $675 Lyoness pays you is when that unit “matures”. In order to mature one unit of the Accounting Category I (ACI) and receive $675, your entire lifeline (you, people you subscribed, people they subscribed) has to make purchases for $183,750.00, provided that the your lifeline only loses 5% of the units because of the imbalances. Yes, remember that in order to mature a unit, you have to deliver 70 units under it. 35 above the centreline and 35 below. So, if you have 335 units above the line and only 34 below, your initial unit will not mature until you get one more unit below the centreline. Smart, isn’t it.
Let’s take this number for further calculations. Since you are not allowed to market Lyoness to people you don’t know, and you are only limited to your friends and acquaintances, you can organise them yourself to make large purchases collectively and realise much higher discounts without being a Lyoness member. A 10% discount on total purchases of $183,750.00, which is relatively easy to negotiate these days, is $18,375.00, not $675 generously promised to you by Lyoness.
To mature a unit of the Accounting Category II (ACII), you have to accumulate 60 units of the ACI, so multiply $183,750.00 by 60. You underline will have to spend a total of $11,025,000, to mature one ACII. All for you to receive the most generous bonus of $1,275.00 from Lyoness. When is that going to happen?
To mature an ACIII and proudly receive $2,400.00 from Lyoness. Remember, this is not real money. Only spendable within Lyoness merchant network. So, to mature an ACIII, you lifeline will have to accumulate 50 ACIIs, meaning to spend $11,025,000.00 multiplied by 50 for a total of $551,250,000.00.
To mature an ACIV, your lifeline has to accumulate 25 ACIIIs, so multiply $551,250,000.00 by 25. You lifeline will have to spend $13,781,250,000.00, and you will receive $7,200.00 from Lyoness.
Finally, to mature an ACV and receive $24,000.00 from Lyoness... Wasn't that you goal? Are you ready?... Completely ready? Sitting down, listening to the drum beat, waiting for the number?.........
To mature one ACV, your lifeline will have to accumulate 25 ACIVs, meaning they will have to spend $13,781,250.000.00 multiplied by 25 for a total of $344,531,250,000. Three Hundred Forty Four BILLION, Five Hundred and Thirty One Million, Two Hundred and Fifty thousand dollars spent by your lifeline to receive a generous bonus of $24,000. So, when do you think all your relatives and friends that are stupid enough to subscribe for Lyoness membership will spend that much money if they start today?
This is 0.00000007% of a discount. Imagine yourself walking to a local retailer and asking for a 0.00000007% discount on your purchase. (Especially if the purchase is for one third of a trillion dollars) There is no way for you to get that discount without Lyoness, of course.
As internet marketers say, BUT WAIT! THERE IS MORE!
So, if Lyoness negotiates a discount of 10% with the merchants, and you only get 0.00000007%, where does the difference go? Oh, yes, you get a regular discount of about 2% that is given to you in a form of cashback and is, by the way, taxable. We are still missing about 8%. Let’s not count 0.00000007% anymore. You’ve got to be Lyoness to call it money. So, on a $344 billion dollar purchase, Lyoness pockets about 8%, which is somewhere in the vicinity of $30 billion dollars. Not that it’s going to happen. All I’m trying to illustrate is that Lyoness gets you to run around subscribing people for 0,00000007% savings (not real money) and they get 8%. Isn’t it a little bit too fat? And if you have so much free time, wouldn’t you be better off just visiting your local stationary wholesaler, buying $10,000 worth of stationary from him at a 20% discount and selling it to the same relatives and friends? You’d make a solid $2000 profit over a school season, and your relatives and friends wouldn’t call you a scammer.
Another thing Lyoness doesn't tell you is that to use their system, you, all the people you refer and all the people they refer will have to permanently change their shopping habits. Have you seen many people happily changing their good lifelong habits over a 2% discount? Well, these are the people you will have to find and subscribe to earn your pennies from Lyoness. Now, if you want to make a little more pennies from Lyoness, these people will have not only change their shopping habits, they will have to be actively running around finding others alike and subscribing them to Lyoness. What a job! What a pay!
Do you buy from Woolworth? Well, forget it. With Lyoness you only earn your bonuses if you purchase from Coles. You probably know, that in most cases you have to purchase vouchers and gift cards of the merchants you want to use before you can get any benefit from Lyoness. That means, you buy a $300 gift card from Coles, wait for a week or two for it to arrive in the mail, and then, every time you walk by your favourite produce shop that's not a part of Lyoness, you have a dilemma. You can go and buy low priced quality produce from your favourite shop or you can buy Coles crap for about 50% more, but you'll get a 2.5% discount. And you will go and buy from Coles because you've already spent this money. That's right. You've already bought the gift card. Whether you use it or not, it is your problem now. Lyoness has already made their money and Coles too.
One of the few freedoms we have left in the modern society is the freedom to buy what you want and to spend your hard earned money the way you want. You don’t vote for the Prime Minister of this country. You don’t vote on carbon tax, bank deposit levy or cigarette tax. You don’t have those freedoms. Yet you still have a freedom to vote for your favourite shop by going there and spending your money. Lyoness takes this freedom away from you. From the moment you join Lyoness, you'll be buying from merchants that pay Lyoness to be in the system. You will have one freedom less. Form many people this is their last freedom.
This all means that you will be running with your tongue on your shoulder subscribing other people (paying $1.5 for each subscription from your pocket, by the way), convincing your friends and relatives to join Lyoness in a hope to get some retirement passive income for yourself, and at the end your entire lifeline, including yourself, will realise that the system is a pure scam. It takes your freedom away; it pays pennies for major inconveniences; and a little bit more pennies for hard work of selling memberships.
Stay away from Lyoness. Spread the world about this scam.
2 Updates & Rebuttals
Tamara in Canada
Calgary,Alaska,
Canada
A Legitimate Business
#3General Comment
Sun, May 28, 2017
Now in May 2017 - The original post was from 2013/2014 I believe, as the first rebuttle is from April 2014.
Firstly, this is a legitimate business. I will speak first about the company and business opportunity then address the complaint. I am an independent business rep (a marketer), and have been part of Lyoness/Lyconet since Oct 2013.
Company & Business Opportunity
Lyoness is an International Customer Rewards company, established in 47 countries with over 85,000 merchant participanting and 8 million members. Their vision is to grow to 1 billion members and 10 million merchants.
They are achieving this vision through partnering and sponsoring numerous European sports teams, golf, soccer, hockey, motorbike racing. This is already taking place, and millions of sports fans are being provided with FREE "fan" cards from their favourite team.
In Europe the company is well established, and it is easy and convenient for day to day shopping through our merchant network. Gas, Groceries, Hardware, Electronics, Restaurants, Clothing and more.
It is unique business model - "We sell nothing, but earn when people buy everything."
The membership is free for shoppers; you can carry a physical card or use the free mobile app (apple/android) which has a digital card.
As a shopper you receive up to 5% Cashback; Shopping Points valued at $7.5 - $15, and you can sign up your friends/family and receive 0.5% of all Lyoness shopping (both direct and indirect).
Example: You choose to join (maybe you receive a card from a local merchant), you like the idea share the membership, so you sign up your son (18+ yrs) who in turn shares it with your spouse. Now, as a family you choose to use your spouses membership to buy the families monthly expenses. Your family now receives an additional 1% back on all purchases made through Lyoness merchants. Online / Local Merchants / Large key account via gift card purchases.
Over the course of a year this 1% may be turn out to pay you $100's of dollars depending on your families spending. Plus you receive your cashback as you shopped and the Shoppings points are going to get you significantly more. Say 1 Shopping Point will get you a free appetizer at your favourite local restaurant, or 10 Shopping Points offers you $100 off your car repair bill or 30% off a hair cut.
The Business Opportunity
As of Nov 2014 the Shopping membership and Business Builder membership where separated. Lyconet is for those who want to build a business.
You CAN join Lyconet for free, but it is a business afterall thus you will likley want to pay $49 for a business kit of cards and brochures for presenting and training. We are paid to create a shopping community, we can introduce shoppers, other marketers and small merchants into Lyoness. As shopping happens and Shopping Points (SP) are generated in your network, you get paid 13 different ways. You get the 3 identical advantages as a shopper only member, plus you paid on the shopping volume throughout your network.
When 50 SP's are generated it creates something called a "unit" which pays you as more and more as units are generated (through your shopping community) and fall in behind yours. These units are placed in what's called a balance program, and you get paid little payouts when the units behind your hit markers such as 3/3 5/5 10/10 15/15 20/20 25/25 = $165 and is paid in cash (in your Lyoness account) that can be deposited into your bank account. Plus a large payout of $600 when that very first unit hits 35/35, which is 'credit' towards our merchant shopping. This $600 is easy to use for buying gift cards such as gas, groceries, hardware.
So what did you have to do for this $765 in income? You generated shopping in your shopping community/team.
OR they offer a short-cut. When you first start you don't have any shoppers, merchants or other marketers signed up, but you are excited about the program and eager to build. You can purchase a discount voucher for $75, which is a promise of future shopping. This discount vouches gives you 50 SP's and a unit. Understanding the future-value of a unit is $765 ++, and feeling confident that you can build a shopping community around something that people do every day = SHOP. People were given the opportunity to purchase up to $3,600 worth of units which was at one point refered to as "gold membership" or later "Premium Membership" and if I remember correctly made you commission qualified for the year.
None of this is required or necessary, but frankly when you see the business model (and I've only mentioned 5 of 13 ways to get paid) people get pretty excited and are eager to buy units/discount vouchers. Without shopping, nothing happens and the units just sit there. The only way to get your funds back is by shopping and as you shop you get $1.5 back for every shopping point generated - it literally draws down on the $3600 (ie RE-CASH). You still get cashback and Shopping Points and generate more units as you shop.
My recommendation if you really want to do this business is to get started with $124 to $349. This is your $49 starter pack plus 1 to 4 units. This makes you immediatly commission qualified (for 5 weeks). Then use the leverage of sharing this with other marketers and join arms with another 2-5 people who want to grow the business. Help them do the same, and you're off to the races.
How do I get my money back?!
I'm very sorry to hear that the original poster has had a bad experience. From what I wrote in the 3 paragraphs just above you can understand how people get caught up in the excitement of what is offered. As with any network marketing company you have little control over what any individual marketer may express in their sharing of the program.
There have been many changes corporately as they attempt to share the program as clearly as possible without people thinking it is some kind of investment. Some of the benefits like "bonus units" can appear so glorious, as you actually get paid on the shopping of your Nation or Continent or World, but there must be shopping volume in order to get those $$ engines rolling. Plus you must also be commission qualified - 50 SP generated in one month qualifies you for commissions for 5 weeks.
It is important to note that any commissions earned while not qualified are kept available for you. There have been many people recently who either by shopping enough in 1 month to generate 50 SP's (50 SP = a unit = commission qualified) got a surprise payout. Plus if you think you have commissions coming to you could purchase 1 Discount voucher/unit $75 and receive your commissions, as you will be comm qualified for 5 weeks.
Ultimately the only way to get your money back is by shopping. By you personally or by those in your team. That RE-CASHES the discount vouchers and you get $1.5 for every SP you generate, plus the cashback from shopping.
A handful of countries, including Australia created a case to charge Lyoness as being a Pyramid/Ponzi Scheme but each time we win these cases. Consider that for 14 years we have been paying commissions weekly in 37 different languages and 27 different currencies.
We continue to grow and are flourishing in many countries... maybe its time to consider re-engaging. Shed a new light on this company and revive your former excitement, you found something unique and special and your unit's are still there bursting with the same potential.
Best regards, Tamara
Paul
Coal Point NSW Australia,Alabama,
Falsehoods
#3General Comment
Sun, April 27, 2014
Not only is this report misleading, in some parts it is totally false, usually complaints of this kind originate from lazy people who expect the business to grow without work, life is like a sewer what you get out of it is what you put into it, the same goes with every business enterprise.
There are reasons why you cannot cold call, the rules are simple you only invite someone you know personally, this is to stop people and businesses being inundated with people they don't know pestering them to join, this to me is fair, for those that contravene this rule can have their membership terminated, a definite sign of a rip off.
Members have two choices in accepting the free membership,
1. They can shop and take advantage of the discounts they receive.
2. They can treat it as a business opportunity, which like all businesses require an investment of time and money, this is no different to any other business.
I have personally checked the ASIC, ACCC, The Consumer Fraud Watch websites there is no mention of Lyoness,I then checked the sites inthe USA, FBI Fraud Watch, National Consumer League, The Fair Trade Commission, The Federal Trade Commission Scam and Fraud Alert, The National Consumers League of America, The USA Internet Fraud, The Consumer Watchdog, which has 2 sites, there is absolutely nothing, no mention of Lyoness and it's so called Scam, are all the government bodies lazy? not doing their job? I think not.
I believe the author is just a disgruntled person who doesn't want to work, and his expectations exceed his ability and work enthic.
I am a Lyoness free member, now I have 3 Premium members, from which I missed the Career points, and 2 merchants last week, so I have to make a decision, do I invest my money in becoming a Premium member and take advantage of the income this will produce, or let it pass me by, to me it is a no brainer, so I will become a Premium member, as I have done my due diligence, and understand how it works.
If Lyoness is scam as this author proposes, wouldn't one of these Consumer Watchdogs have it on their radar, yet there is nothing, there are plenty of private blogs against Lyoness, but you need to ask, what is their agenda, as they hide behind anonymity, as all cowards do, I have asked who they are and what do they have to gain, of course there has been no response, like the Complaint Centre Lyoness, who keep deleting my comments.
I would suggest to anyone who has been approached and is considering becoming a member, please check the sites above, then make an informed decision, this is not for everyone, but I see it as agreat opportunity for me.
If the author has a complaint, why does he not take it to the relevant Govt. Watchdog and have Lyoness investigated, yet he has failed to do so, so it begs the question why not?????? maybe he will enlighten us.
if he responds to this, I will wait patiently, but will not hold my breath.