Complaint Review: Mentor Financial Group

I have been involved with RBF program for a year, submitted numerous deals qualified by the company's submission website, but hold out no hope of these deals ever closing.  It is dubious whether offers actually get submitted to the banks and follow-ups are even more elusive.  In the year I've been enrolled, I believe I have only received one email from the company and that just announced a new bonus module to their training program.  Any other communications I had to initiate.  The transparency in which they operate is as clear as mud. 

There are no postings of the offer letters or bank communications on deal interface website.  No updates.  No communications regarding changes in the market that students would need to know about.  Although recently pulled from their products page, the Residential Back Flip course was still being sold with information that was no longer valid in the current market and financial arena and was contradicted on the live coaching calls.  I think the guys on the coaching calls were just left holding the bag. 

When an inquiry is made on an owner behalf, the company line is we'll contact you when we have something.  That might be acceptable for a month, but it is unconscionable that the company would treat clients like that.  So it winds up just being a big numbers game for them.  The goal is to get as many deals can possible submitted and try to get low ball offers accepted by the banks, regardless of the real people in the houses that most likely are experiencing severe financial and emotional difficulties. 

Although I believe they probably did get a bank to accept a low ball offer a couple years ago and then created a marketing piece to go behind it, I don't believe this is a valid or repeatable concept.  I'm sure any banker you speak with will say the same thing.  We put a man on the moon and have probably cured at least one person of cancer, but does that make it a valid concept to be marketed and sold.  Don't remember any "Moon Travel for Dummies" on the bookshelves.   

So is it a poor business plan or misrepresentation?  MFG will not quote any statistics as to how many deals have been submitted and closed, even to affiliates that have a substantial amount of money at risk.  The company line is that there are no stats because each deal is stands unto itself.  IF deals are actually being completed, it would seem to make marketing sense to reference some of those.  Hence the title of this post. 

I would implore MFG or any agent that has completed a residential back flip to post that information or address, as that should be public information within the county records.  If the deals can't be verified, if the offers can't be verified, if the transparency can't be verified, then I suggest that the program, and company itself, can't be validated.   That is why questions of legality arise because it appears and functions as a classic Pump & Dump marketing ploy.

Thanks J Smith (September 2012). Thanks for your report on "MFG" from last year. I found it very helpful. Are you still in the business and if yes, how is it going? Thanks again.

I tried to go to the suggested website given by the business owner. www.welovehappycustomers.com- bogus and/or his idea of a joke?

I was very interested in this opportunity, and I can imagine how important timely info and guidance would be during a deal. Lack of support for the field is unacceptable. I want and need profit too- not a wild goose chase to waste my time. I will not purchase this virtual course (nothing is received in the mail.) And the rules for money back guarantee on virtual products is limited and reduced- not like on tangible product received.  My guess is too many people requested a refund within 30 days- less people will within 10 days.

I'm sorry to hear that you did not have a good experience. Even though no one else does this, Jerry and Peter insist on helping clients to find great deals and provide 99% of the cash to complete deals quickly.  Please contact us so that we can assist you with your concerns at www.WeLoveHappyCustomers.com

I have read all of the negative comments regarding Mentor Financial Group (MFG) and would like to offer a different more positive perspective. First let me address the fact that I am an active MFG student. I am not and have not ever been employed by MFG or any of its affiliates. I have over 10 years of residential real estate experience as both a Realtor, and investor (rehabs, short sales, note purchases).

Although I'm sorry to read that some of the posters on here have not had the outcomes that they originally anticipated, I can say with pride that I have successfully completed my first transition with MFG, and have a number of great
deals in my pipeline.

One of the recurring criticisms is that MFG is constantly changing the program and it is frustrating to the student. While I certainly understand how the change may seem frustrating, I actually welcome the change and appreciate the fact that MFG is willing to stay on top of current events. The course is fluid and always up to date. If one way of doing things isnt working, MFG updates its students immediately so they can implement the new ideas to achieve the end result which is ultimately to get a loan sale approval at a discount. I have invested tens of thousands of dollars in real estate training and courses and I am thrilled to have finally found a course that actually goes above and beyond to stay up to date. 

MFG has said from the very beginning that their particular investment approach (the residential backflip) is a relatively new strategy. We are in a very peculiar real estate market, one where banks are changing their policies and regulations on almost a weekly basis; therefore, investors like MFG have no choice but to stay one or two steps ahead of the constant change. If as a student you find it frustrating to not be able to keep up with the changes, this may not be the right opportunity for you because it will certainly require that you stay current and continually educate yourself on the issues at hand.

With that said, because of the changing market and also the fact that not every bank operates the same, there are going to be times when some of the lessons that you learn in the course will not necessarily apply.  This is not a cookie
cutter course, but rather a real world work in-progress that offers a viable solution for distressed banks and  homeowners, while creating an income stream for us as investors. There will be times where you have to think outside of the box when you run into problems.

For example: Its not always an easy task to get your offer to purchase the note into the hands of the decision
maker. If you follow the course line by line and run into a dead end what do you do? Is it MFGs fault that you cant find the decision maker? Is the course now not legitimate because everything didnt happen according to plan? Or does
it just mean that you need to come up with some alternative ideas on your own so that you can get your offer properly submitted, read and negotiated? Now admittedly this may be just one example, but in my case that is exactly what
happened to me. But after being politely persistent, I was able to come up with an alternative that ultimately got me in the door so that I could commence negotiations. In fairness to MFG, they now have an option where they will do ALL
of the negotiations for you if you so choose. I personally like to have a bit more control of the deals that I submit.

With regard to the claim that MFG is illegally doing business: Mentor Financial Group with Peter Conti and Jerry Norton are illegally doing business in the online training program they are constantly revising for back-flipping commercial real
estate.

I would be very careful about throwing the word illegal around. We are very quick to deem something to be illegal when we dont (a) completely understand a concept, or (b) dont have the successful outcome that we thought we would originally have (so therefore the activity must be illegal).

Seriously?? I am by no means an attorney, but security instruments are bought and sold on a daily basis by small and large institutions and the activity is hardly illegalits called commerce. Now yes there are certain licensing requirements that must be adhered to when dealing with the sale of a mortgage instrument; however, (a) all documentation regarding the sale of the note are drawn up reviewed and approved by the attorneys for both the seller (bank) and purchaser (MFG). Because MFG is purchasing individual notes, the licensing requirements are less stringent (with the
exception of the state of Georgia) than when notes are bought and sold in bulk.

Unless you can cite the particular statute that explains how and why this type of commerce is in fact illegal, lets not be so quick to call it such. Most attorneys cant tell you if something is in fact legal, they can only tell you that its illegaland they will only do so if you pay them for the time that it takes them to research the statute(s). So rather than spending our time slandering MFG, lets look at the company for what it is..a private investment company that is constantly evolving to bring solutions to this US housing crisis that is far from over. MFG is far from perfect (just like any other organization) but it is doing its best to create a solid income stream for its students, while helping homeowners and banks (who are mostly responsible for this mess) out of a tough situation.
 

Jerry Norton and his investment group provided financing for us to purchase the note from the bank when no other entity would. Jerry and his investment group provided a loan to us in excess of the term of the mortgage and enabled us to secure a loan with a bank. They honored there commitment to us and provided the necessary time to enable a successful conclusion to the process. I would recommend using Jerry and his investment group in any similar transaction based upon our successful loan.

Regarding the residential and commercial back flip programs, which I was really interested in, MFG would not tell me approximately how many back flip offers they have submitted to the lenders over the past 12 months or what the bank's acceptance rate was running.  You have to wonder why.  They did cite 4 case studies but nothing verifying the probability of the lenders accepting 60-65% of the current market value.  Remember, their loan balances are higher, so they would be writing off 50-60% or more of the debt.  I believe some would take that, but not many in my humble opinion.  In theory, it's a great program.  But reality?  Just my observation.

This is not a complaint but rather a summary of my recent experience with MFG.  I signed up for the residential and commercial back flip training/deal submission after hearing an online marketing presentation from the principals.  It sounded very interesting and a great opportunity to pursue for me.  I'm not a real estate agent but have extensive bank lending/financial services experience.  It's also something I can do as a side business.

The cost was $997 (I always use credit card in case I need to dispute) for access to one of the residential or commercial training tools, marketing ideas, deal submission process, and capital.  $1,492 for both.  They offered a money back guarantee during the 10-day trial period and mentioned a 90-day guarantee to generate some business but I didn't get the specifics of that offer.

During the first 9 days I found their training and marketing tools to be helpful and sensible.  The deal submission calculator showed how they arrive at a note buyout price.  I participated in two coaching calls which I found to be frustrating as the information is taped and you have to submit questions in an email prior to the call.  There wasn't any opportunity to ask live questions.  That did not set with me well.

I also found it frustrating that you can't call in to a service department to ask questions.  You either have to send an email or complete a "ticket" to submit your questions.  I suppose they don't want their people on the phone all day long helping us out in the field.

It's hard to do due-diligence on this company and they won't share how many deals or dollar amounts they have done over the past year or years - only that they have "deep pockets".  I do see that the BBB gives them an A accredited rating using the Denver address at this writing.  I surely want to know their capabilities and reputation before I spend my time searching for potential deals (only high-end residential and commercial back flips) in my area.  I'm not a fix and flip guy.

I did not have enough time to really research my market to determine if lenders will ultimately accept the steep discount connected with this program.  That's the big catch here and I am still trying to gather information from lenders, loan brokers, attorneys, real estate agents. 

So with that, I decided to cancel my membership at the end of the 10 day trial period (June 14, 2012) and they did promptly issue a credit to my card within 1 day after I explained that I didn't feel I had enough market opportunity in my area to support their services. 

Their program is pretty detailed, fairly easy to follow, and does have potential.  They just lack service at this point in my humble opinion.  If I can verify that someone has actually processed deals successfully, have a better feeling of trust in their services, and find that I can generate business in my market area, I will sign up again and move forward.

I don't view this as illegal business as you are just acting as an independent agent referring the business deals to them for a fee.  Of course you need to pre-qualify the deal to make sure it is worth spending the time to underwrite.

I hope this helps those who are considering the back flip deal program.  I would love to hear from someone who has been successful in this endeavor.