Complaint Review: Optionetics

Richard, owner, is a f**king BS and a big moot.  

Richard's wife is a f**king BS and a big moot.

Optionetics is a f**king BS and a big moot.

Optionetics instructors are f**king BS and a big moot.

Optionetics helpers who sit at the back are all f**king BS and a big moot.

Jacqueline makes a number of disparaging statements about our company which I would like to set straight for the record. For the past eleven years, Optionetics has maintained the highest standards in investor education. With over 40,000 graduates and Optionetics educational products sold in over 70 countries, Optionetics values the integrity of our brand and our commitment to our students.

The primary focus of our trading instruction is risk management and evaluation on every trade. Jacqueline is correct when she states that we specialize in teaching spread trades but we also teach other strategies too. By using combinations of options in a properly structured way, the trader is able to absolutely control their maximum risk and maximum reward on each trade. The individual legs (option components) of a trade often have tremendous risk if placed independently.

In fact, if you place the legs of a spread trade as 2 separate trades, any broker will tell you that the margin requirement (based on the risk) can be multiplied a great deal and sometimes the risk can actually become unlimited. It is because of this difference that you cannot refer to a spread trade accurately as 2 trades. In order to maintain the limited risk profile of the trade, the brokerage will require that you place all legs at the same time, tied together, and as a single event.

Placing the legs separately, as two trades, is called legging in and is covered at the seminars. It is not ever recommended by Optionetics instructors because there is no guarantee that both legs will be executed at the necessary prices or at all. If the wrong leg gets executed first, the trader may find themselves on the wrong end of an obligatory high risk trade. Our guarantee calls for a specific number of managed risk trades as taught in the class. If we considered Jacqueline's trades individually, then those individual trades would have included numerous reckless and dangerous trades without any risk management component.

Jacqueline goes on further to discuss her history of losses. We teach a variety of stock selection techniques and exit strategies in our class. What Jacqueline did not say was that for students who did not fully grasp the stock selection or exit techniques, we offer free technical support to our students as well as the ability to re-attend seminars at no charge to refresh the material in their minds. Having checked our customer contact records, I see that Jacqueline never made any attempts to utilize our technical support staff. If any student is having difficulty properly applying the techniques taught in the class, we encourage them to do so rather than repeating the same expensive mistakes over and over again as she apparently did. With the loss record she describes, I am surprised that she did not seek any help.

In our 11 year history, our growth has come largely as a result of word of mouth advertising from successful graduates. It would be impossible to grow a business if Jacqueline
experience was typical. Optionetics is not a single class or seminar; it is about a lifetime of learning. Our students come back to us on a variety of investment topics because they have seen the value in our classes. Again, taking full advantage of the resources we make available is part of the route to success which Jacqueline chose to forego.

As a company, we can commit to provide all of the education, tools and support to help someone understand the strategies and be successful. What we can't do, is make sure that they use what is offered.

Our money back guarantee is real and we honor it. We provide all the materials in advance of classes with full money back rights up to noon of the first day. But we believe that if you use the lifetime free repeat to learn, the technical support and risk management techniques you should be successful so we offer a 6 month performance guarantee requiring 36 open and closed trades (Jacqueline by her own admission did only 27). However, Jacqueline was given her money back by a credit to her card - although she believes otherwise. But Jacqueline has fixed opinions which is why we are still discussing this 2 years after purchase and one year after her refund.

We are not brokers but the trading commissions to trade do vary between brokers but can be found to be much lower than Jacqueline quotes (and Jeff correctly states - see Ameritrade, E-Trade, Optionsxpress, Think or Swim). Some also offer incredible deals on spread trading which make all Jacqueline's comments moot.

We are truly sorry that Jacqueline's experience with us was not a good one but that does not translate to mean our company lacks credibility or a fantastic product. We stand by our guarantees and our product by allowing the free lifetime repeat seminar rights to always be there to show the willing student the solution. As the teacher with a vaiety of students we know it may take a little longer with some people than others to find the path to success whereas some people might get to be successful immediately. We keep on giving 100% to make our students successful and anyone that is our customer knows that to be true.

Thank you for reading.

I am the original complainant (note I've moved from Delray Beach to Boynton Beach). I have three comments:

1. Richard (who classifies himself as "owner of the company") states that "Jackie received her money back in 2003 and received her goods back if she did not qualify for a refund". I want to reiterate that the ONLY reason I received my money back was that I disputed it through my credit card company which is very consumer (rather than merchant) oriented - otherwise I would never have gotten my money back from Optionetics. Note also that this money back was ONLY the cost of the course - I still lost the $1495.00 I paid Optionetics for newsletters and computer software and about $6500.00 trading their system. BTW - I have no idea what "goods" Richard claims were returned to me.

2. Richard claims that because I received my money back my comments are "moot". At the time I made this complaint I had already received my course money back, so the point of the complaint was not that - the point was to try to prevent others from being sucked in to Optionetics' misleading claims and exaggerated promises and losing money.

3. Richard is probably right about one thing - clearly "Jeff" is not an employee as he completely misunderstood my comments about the connection between trade commissions and the cost of trying to make this system successful. It is important to clarify that. It is not that the commissions on 72 trades would be $10,000, as "Jeff" seems to have interpreted - it is that because (a)there is a minimum set commission per trade (even if it is only one contract) and then a very small charge for additional contracts on that same trade, and (b)each trade on a spread incurs two of these minimum set commissions in and two out - in order to keep commissions from eating up whatever profits you might make, you cannot just trade one or two contracts on each recommended trade as Optionetics claims in their course. You need to buy at least 4-6 contracts on each trade and that is what gets expensive. If you're making profits its no problem - but if you're not, it can quickly get very costly.

My point was that becuase of the above facts - in order to take advantage of Optionetics' success rate (which is based on many different recommended trades lot of trades), and get the 72 required trades over six months to qualify for the warranty - you need to be prepared to invest about $10,000. Optionetics sucks you in by claiming that you can successfully trade their system with just a couple of thousand dollars. That MIGHT be possible if you had 100% success rate on your early trades - but based on the law of percentages that is illogical, and the truth is you need to be prepared to spend up to $10,000 in order to achieve Optionetics' success rate.

My complaint about Optionetics was not that the system itself is a scam - I am sure that they make money with it. It is that Optionetics' advertising about the success RATE of their system and the AMOUNT of money needed to be successful is false and misleading, AND they do not honor their warranty.

Thank you for allowing me to respond and clarify this.

Hi:

We did not respond to this post. Easy for us to know as we have no employee named Jeff.

Jackie received her money back in 2003 and received her goods back when she did qualify for a refund.

I respectfully disagree with her comments but it is at this stage moot.

Hello,

I am doing research into the optionetics opportunity and found the rebuttal of an optionetics employee to be off base. He explained that an alleged disatisfied customer (who did not have his refund honored) did not explain the mathematics correctly.

First..to have an employee of optionetics (which would be speaking as an agent of the company). Should be VERY dissapointed if this customer was given the RUN AROUND at all!! Any member of the company should not be defensive, but attempt to rectify it. The same care that was taken when the customer pays for the product, should be given when dealing with a complaint. Honesty + truth + caring = Longevity/good repute/clean concious/job security(nobody has 2-5k to part with easily) .

I understand that there are people that try to get over on customer service, but telling the last guy to check his math is suspect.

Jacqueline,

You wrote:

>2. In order to get 36 spreads (72 actual trades)>during the 6 months it will probably cost >upward of $10000.

72 actual trades with my online broker would cost me $2,152.80 ($14.95 per trade execution). Check your math or get a cheaper broker before telling people what their commissions will "probably" be.