Complaint Review: PayPal

It is not a flame war..it is legal common sense..and business reasoning and protection.

It does not matter what you feel the reason is they are holding the account. What matters is..PayPal has a right to protect itself.

They want proof of residency..can you blame them? Just like when you apply for a license...they ask for a utility bill..correct? What is to say someone who is a scamming fraud rip off artist uses a license from a residence they have not been living at for years? A utility bill is a a better form of proof that the address is current..would you not agree?

It AMAZES me how the handful of people that are unwilling or able to comply with PayPals rules, regulations, terms and policies..look for some kind of conspiracy. I have been ripped off by banks...and I have had my problems with PayPal as well. But my problem with PayPal was NOT about them ripping me off...as I stood back..took a breath..and realized they are not profiteering from their policies..but protecting themselves...and their customers from potential fraud.

Think about what they do.....hopefully it will not cause a mental strain or aneurysm.

Your email address was redacted. Simple way around this. For example...post it as [nutjob (AT) loser (DOT) com] etc. Be smarter then the system.

I read your report and the email greet you by your name or dear paypal user.

If it igreeted you by your name its the real paypal site and if it greeted you by saying dear paypal user its a phony site .  I forwarded the email from the phony site to the real 1 by sending it to (((Redacted))). Everytime I get 1 of these emails I do this everytime

"I am of the opinion I have provided PayPal more than enough information to conduct business in the United States. "

  Your opinion and $5 might buy you a cup of coffee at Starbuck's, but it's not going to get you a corporate Paypal account.   Your opinion that this has anything to do with your constitutional rights would make a high school civics student chuckle.

  You have no "right" to do business with Paypal. 

ASC,

"I believe they are violating my privacy and unalienable rights, given the documentation provided and the demand for more."

..but "simply" put..regardless of your opinion..you did not provide enough information for PayPal to open the account. If you "simply" comply..they will open the account because believe it or not,,in an effort to turn a profit..they actually want customers.

PayPal is a business that is in place to help prevent internet fraud. They certainly do not want to be stuck holding the bag if a seller conducts fraud. At the same time, they want the customers who use PayPal to pay online, to be protected.

They can ask for a utility bill..or DNA testing if they choose,...they are not a government agency or an employer to you. Why can't you show them a utility bill? Principle? Well you see where the principle got you..no PayPal account. If you really want this account and are not a fraud...show the d**n utility bill and get on with business.

To put it simply.

I am of the opinion I have provided PayPal more than enough information to conduct business in the United States. And I believe they are violating my privacy and unalienable rights, given the documentation provided and the demand for more.

You have supplied PayPal with the address on your driver's license so there should be no reason to withhold a copy of a utility bill that proves that information is current.

Perhaps this is being brought into question.

First to Robert...yes, there was some confusion. I did not mean to imply that you stated PayPal was a bank...I stated "That PayPal is not a bank as Robert stated, and hence not subject to the same regulations." Meaning to imply that you stated PayPal is NOT a bank.....as you stated.

My second reply only had to do with some comments left for me in older reports. I was just explaining that there are 2 sides to PayPal, and with one of the sides...it IS a bank..or simply has it's logo along with a MasterCard logo on the front..and Chase bank on the back. Pretty much....a bank. When I use this card...it is funded by my PayPal account..which is subject to PayPals rules and terms...but the card itself..is subject to the same rules and regulations as any other bank debit card. Confusing?? Perhaps. But it is what it is.

As far as this report..this is similar to almost every other disgruntled complaint about PayPal..which is someone simply does not like the policies..and does not understand that PayPals policies are not a fraud, crime, ripoff, violation or swindle of anything... in any way shape or form.

How can I make this claim? Simple. How is PayPal profiting from this? They are NOT. They profit by opening and KEEPING accounts. If they will not open an account they lose money. So why would they do this? Simple ...one reason only..to PROTECT themselves and others from scams. You don't like the policies or don't want to send them a utility bill to prove where you live (a license does not "prove" where you live..it only proves where you "may" have lived when you got the license), then don't use PayPal.

The answer...this is what PayPal is...

PayPal is an e-commerce business allowing payments and money transfers to be made through the Internet. PayPal serves as an electronic alternative to traditional paper methods such as checks and money orders.

However, if you have and use a PayPal debit card...it is a bank (or at least working through the banking system) and subject to the same regulations as any other bank and debit card uses.

nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

^^ read it

No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws."

- When did Paypal become a State?

I've been around involved in the investigative consulting field for quite some time. I can break down to you exactly how information flows through the various inter-corporate databases, the state public or confidential information programs, this datas' root source(s) In fact unless they find an OFAC on us...which they won't. But I guess that depends on who I enrage

- I think there might be someone in Colorado, Highlands Ranch to be specific, that you may want to talk to..sounds like you may have a lot in common in your beliefs.

I do have to say that there are just some Reports that really bring the comic relief that we all need from time to time.

"Combining adverse action with PayPal's other actions, makes this adverse action without disclosure, which according to federal law that governs interstate commerce is a violation of rights and my ability to function as a human being and resident of the United States.

Paypal is violating your ability to function as a human being?

And people ask me why I read Ripoffreports - LOL

I've been around involved in the investigative consulting field for quite some time. I can break down to you exactly how information flows through the various inter-corporate databases, the state public or confidential information programs, this datas' root source(s) and I can tell you from a professional stand point that what PayPal has on file is more than any company needs to confirm any person or individual and conduct lawful commerce in the United States. In fact unless they find an OFAC on us...which they won't. But I guess that depends on who I enrage. PayPal has more information on file than accepted business requires and quite frankly it's an invasion of privacy of not only person, but individual. With no notice of intent or degree of investigation.

Understood legal definition of person online
n. 1) a human being or individual. 2) a corporation treated as having the rights and obligations of a person. Counties and cities can be treated as a person in the same manner as a corporation. However, corporations, counties and cities cannot have the emotions of humans such as malice, and therefore are not liable for punitive damages unless there is a statute authorizing the award of punitive damages.

Text of Section 1 of the Fourteenth Amendment to the United States Constitution
All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws."

My individual information is my individual property. My corporation is another citizen that is being discriminated against without cause because of another individual's consumer information.

We have a right to privacy, and immunities PayPal seemly disregards. They have government documents with our information on it they do not need my individual utility bill at my residence.

To recap PayPal has be given the following information;
Washington State issued Driver's License, Information w/ Photo
Full Legal Name
SSN
DOB
Address History
Bank Name
Bank Account Number
State Business License
City Business License showing DBAs
IRS Documented EIN
Credit Card Number
Name on Card
Billing Address
Previous Commercial Address Lease
Current Utility Bill w/ account number and new commercial address
A list of 6 months or more of phone bill payment transactions, w/ account number w/ current commercial address the last 4 digits of every credit card used to pay that bill.
A hand written voided check drawn off our bank account attached to the PayPal account with my signature.

BTW I was previously vetted for a merchant by them and approved. I don't have a negative balance and no disputes with consumers.

PayPal says this is not enough to remove the limitation off my account.

So to remove the limitation off my account they want proof of my individual residential address which is located on my government issued driver's license, of which they have a copy.

Why haven't you supplied PayPal with a utility bill as proof of your residential address?

First I NEVER stated that Paypal was a bank.  I was comparing the "Cybercash" business model which has minimal regulations(mainly their terms and conditions), with a actual bank that has tons of regulations from various regulatory agencies.  If that confused anyone I am sorry.

Also, even though you are being asked for your "personal" information it is still with a "business" account.  If you think you can make some Constitutional claim that they are violating your rights.  Good luck and more power to you. 

When a corporation uses internal policies to cause a direct violation of individual rights through another person that is foul ball.

When PayPal requested my individual information, such as ssn and dob they brought my consumer information into the person realm. They are limiting my account based on my individual personal address.

They have the following information on me;

Washington State issued Driver's License, Information w/ Photo
Full Legal Name
SSN
DOB
Address History
Bank Name
Bank Account Number
State Business License
City Business License showing DBAs
IRS Documented EIN
Credit Card Number
Name on Card
Billing Address
Previous Commercial Address Lease
Current Utility Bill w/ account number and new commercial address
A list of 6 months or more of phone bill payment transactions, w/ account number w/ current commercial address the last 4 digits of every credit card used to pay that bill.
A hand written voided check drawn off our bank account attached to the PayPal account with my signature.

BTW I was previously vetted for a merchant account by them and approved. I don't have a negative balance and no disputes with consumers.

PayPal says this is not enough to remove the limitation off my account.

So to remove the limitation off my account they want proof of my individual residential address which is located on my government issued driver's license, of which they have a copy. They are denying me the ability to fully utilize my business account based on not having enough information to confirm my individual address...  That is my individual information that they are using to deny another person, my business. PayPal is the one bringing my individual information into the person realm.  Now they want me to provide some utility bill at my individual residence... I could go 14th amendment all over this.

Now enough is enough when do my individual rights come into play...they're prying into my individual life without balanced cause or lawful warrant. When PayPal is allowing undiscriminated access to the PayPal system to users that have provided less information than we have.

I am and will cry foul ball.

That PayPal is not a bank as Robert stated, and hence not subject to the same regulations. But what Robert may not be aware of, is that there is also paypal "credit"..which is certainly subject to the same regulations as any other bank in the USA. My PayPal debit card is FUNDED by my PayPal account..not much unlike a bank debit card is FUNDED by a checking account.

I have replied on this site before how my PayPal account was not ripping me off like Wachovia was at the time. I was using this PayPal card just like any other debit card. I was told that I was not being ripped off by PayPal like I was with Wachovia because "PayPal is not subject to the same regulations as Wachovia since PayPAL is NOT a bank". Horse s**t.....

How do I know this?...

Number 1) My PayPal card has a "MasterCard" logo on it.

Number 2) I notice my account policies have changed since other banking industry regulations have, for example..I can pay my bill by electronic payment and it is NOT considered late as long as I pay online the day it is due. It used to be like other banks..that if you paid electronically..it was a crap shoot if the payment would be posted on or before the due date. You know..the overdraft fee scams and rip offs?

Number 3) it says on the back of my PAYPAL card..."issued by JPMorgan Chase Bank, N.A."

Perhaps this is why transactions were never re-sequenced since I have had the card..and why the card can not overdraft at a point of sale or ATM. Because it is subject to the SAME regulations as any other bank card..and it seems to follow Chase policies pretty much to the letter.

I have been using them for over 10 years. I have also had my share of uphill battles with them.

But I also realize...well look at what it is they are trying to do ...

...make online transactions safer.

Would you want that job knowing the amount of scams that go on with the internet?

Now..unless you can propose a better way...a way that protects online consumers AND sellers...and PayPal (they have a right as well to protect themselves), I would think you should not complain.

If you can suggest a better way then I am more then willing to listen. Otherwise...you like EVERYONE and ANYONE else that CHOOSES to do online commerce through PayPal....must live with their terms...or, use your freedom of choice to not deal with them at all. Just accept credit cards and checks only like the good old days.

We may be in a fascist corporate engineered society, but we are still a republic country.

I am an American citizen. A Washington State resident. And a free American granted equal rights by God and the United States constitution, governed by the People.

PayPal has provided no documentation or authority proving their ability to set aside or violate these rights.

Because they are a BIG corporation, and their internal conveniences demanded inter-corporate policies, that does not give PayPal the right, to violate or set aside my rights in any fashion, regardless of opinion(s).

Every American has the right to conduct commerce in the United States. And every company has the right to declare internal policies, BUT when a corporation becomes a widely used, or almost dominate easement on the Internet or the economical financial system, those corporations policies require due diligent scrutiny from Congress, the governors of the United States and those corporations have a duty to the People to ensure no harm comes to any person or personal security by enforcing internal corporate policy actions.

a) We have met everyone of PayPal's terms to be a "verified paypal user" 
b) PayPal while verbally promising reinstatement for release of certain personal information and documents, demands more upon receipt. Which shows discrimination based upon documentation, equaling adverse action. Combining adverse action with PayPal's other actions, makes this adverse

action without disclosure, which according to federal law that governs interstate commerce is a violation of rights and my ability to function as a human being and resident of the United States.
c) PayPal has all the documentation needed by commonly agreed to and accepted business practices in the United States.
d) PayPal has failed to provide notice of a intense background check, the depth of the investigation, or provide lawful notice of adverse action, or provide a copy of FCRA rights.
e) I gave no authority to PayPal to have a third party govern our documents released to PayPal. Or any person the ability to deny me rights based upon documentation provided.
f) PayPal never indicated that providing documentation to them would result in any type of incrimination, discrimination or adverse action. PayPal agents assured reinstatement of account if we provided lawful documentation.
g) PayPal committed consumer fraud by their actions and without due diligence, unlawful adverse action. By gathering information from me through false promises of security PayPal has demonstrated it's inability to function with current internal polices without committing harm to consumers, securities, or persons.

I'm sure if PayPal ever goes through a lawful investigation via a clerk's subpoena more will be discovered and entered as evidence.

I really hope they file for defamation, of which I deny on all counts. However I'd love to walk in the court room as a plaintiff.

If you have an S-Corp this is a BUSINESS and there are different regulations for consumer vs. business.  So in your case "consumer rights" don't apply.

They are not violating your "rights" to conduct commerce and trade, there is no law that says you must have Paypal.  This is no different than a Visa or Mastercard.  There are a lot of businesses that don't accept credit cards and they are conducting commerce and trade every day.  If paypal doesn't want you then find another method.

Paypal and other "Cybercash" companies are fairly new in the overall picture and compared to something such as a regular bank or credit cards there is significantly less regulation with them.  If fact they are not directly regulated by any government agency that would regulate regular banks, such as the OCC, FDIC. 

If a "regular" bank did what you read some reports about Paypal, you would have people coming here telling you how "evil" they are and how they need to be sued.  Yet because it is Paypal they give them a "pass".  Oh, and they give them a pass because they use them for their business.

I am not defending paypal here.  I am just telling you that if you are running a business you need to go after them from the "business" perspective and not the "consumer" perspective.

Good Luck.