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  • Report:  #145581

Complaint Review: Primerica

Primerica My Observations on the PFS Experience and the Quality of Its Service ripoff Duluth Georgia


*UPDATE: Primerica offers a good business opportunity & stands behind its products & services- - Company Executives have told Rip-Off Report that Primerica pledges to resolve complaints & address any inquires from the past, present & in the future.

  • Reported By:
    New York New York
  • Submitted:
    Thu, June 09, 2005
  • Updated:
    Tue, June 28, 2005

Forgive the length of this article, but I had to get a few things off my chest.

I am currently a Regional Leader for Primerica Financial Services (PFS), although I have been inactive for over a year. I joined PFS full-time with intense interest, and was VERY committed to the work being done there. Having been laid off, with nowhere else to go, how could I turn down an opportunity to build a business with the backing of a company like Citigroup??

I gave it a great push for a few years, and was a key participant in our office and its work. But things change. After several years of always being there for virtually every meeting and special events, people were shocked to see me simply vanish. I wasn't earning enough to pay the bills. I had to either get a job, or force our family to move away from parents, family and friends and set up my PFS business elsewhere. I chose the former.

PFS leaders talk insessantly about not quitting and giving up on your dreams. That you need to make the big sacrifices for the bigger rewards down the road. Nice words, but in practice, very hard to deal with. Living in one of the most expensive places in the U.S. and trying to build a PFS business is very hard. And even the PFS stars' in our office barely earned what I needed to earn to survive. In looking at their lives, and what they had to do to make that income, it would only make me nauseous and worry even more about what I would have to put my family through just to balance our home budget.

Even earning a minimal income, the impact of a PFS career on my lifestyle and my family was significant. It required me to neglect what I felt were the more important parts of life. You know, those things which many in PFS would agree that you have to sacrifice in the short term to regain in the long term. For me, the long term at PFS would likely have achieved at the cost of my marriage, and who knows what else.

Being honest, this is not PFS's fault. Any business or career that has a large financial objective requires a lot of work. I just learned through my PFS experience that I wasn't the sort of person, that we were not the sort of family, that wanted to make those sacrifices for a financial ideal. Love and family is a much stronger motivation for us. Whether our daughter goes to Yale, or a community college, she will rise to her potential as God intends her to be.

An example of how PFS affected our lives. My wife was not a PFS adherent. She hated the hype she experienced at the events she attended. She hated seeing me transformed into something other that what she married. She became increasingly embarrassed when our trips to the mall, or visits to friends, became recruiting exercises. When money is tight and things get tough, and you are frantic about your lack of income, everyone you look at will have this dollar sign pop over their heads. They stop being people to you. They are simply a means to an end. She would see this attitude in me, and hated PFS even more for this.

Having stepped away from PFS, I cannot tell you the relief we experienced. I recall visiting a restaurant with a friend a few weeks after my decision, and for the first time in a long time seeing people as people. Mothers with kids in their strollers chatting with friends. Guys surfing the net on their laptops. And me, being there with no interest in figuring out a way to strike up a conversation with them so I could invite them to a PFS meeting. PFS speaks of financial freedom, but what I experienced was a freedom that transcended money. I was once more able to go back to being, in PFS terms, average and ordinary. A shame from their perspective. A joy from mine.

But leaving PFS also made me think further about the PFS Scam we read about on this website, and the never ending rebuttals. As a PFS agent, such negative information was always an issue when recruits or clients did their own web search on Primerica. We shrugged it off as the rantings of a few, and that big targets such as Citigroup and PFS always attracted such venom. I've also noticed that there is little real valid discussion about how good, overall, is PFS at actually helping its clients with their finances.

There are always the stories about getting screwed with term insurance that is too expensive, or misleading statements made by a PFS agent. My bigger concern is the fact that PFS is a very large organization, representing a very large financial services company, and are selling products to a very large market of middle income families. Are those families getting the best possible financial help? PFS thinks they are. After all, they always say We do what's right 100% of the time.

It became obvious to me, though, that it is impossible for PFS to fulfill that creed, even though I would chant it with the others at the meetings, and tell my clients that creed across the kitchen table.

Today, I believe this mantra should be restated as such: "We do what's right 100% of the time within the constraints of our current product line, our financial knowledge, and our motivation for profit and recruiting".

Why do I say it this way? First, let's take a look at the PFS agent.

Taking a financial novice off the street, recruiting and training them, putting them through field training (which is controlled by their upline, not some structured field training monitored by the company as a whole), then unleashing them on the public as a financial coach, is a big concern.

Most people joining PFS are eager to find a career alternative. Few have any background related to the financial industry. Few have even demonstrated in their own lives the ability to save money, get out of debt, and make decent investment decisions. Certainly, being a PFS agent helps you to learn and improve those things in your life. But, only as it applies to a specific range of products which Citigroup is willing to entrust to them.

PFS agents cannot sell everything Citigroup as a company sells, even though PFS is touted by its people as the primary marketing arm of Citigroup. PFS products are especially designed for PFS sales, and as a result, narrow the financial options an agent can bring to a client.

PFS by design targets a certain niche of people who have rather simple financial woes, then tries to help by providing a solution that is often not the most affordable, and certainly not by providing a view of all available options in the market. This fits Citigroup's marketing needs, since their other organizations do not really target this segment. PFS cannot deal with sophisticated financial problems, and can be made fools of by clients with more financial savvy than they have. I've been there.

Citigroup isn't stupid. PFS MUST be very basic in its subject matter and product line for any of its recruits to understand it well enough to sell it, much less avoid screwing up too many of their clients with it. So this begs to ask: would you want to work with a financial coach who has a limited arsenal of tools, products, and knowledge to help you?

Even with the limits on the product offering, most agents rarely learn enough about all the products to either sell them effectively, or discuss them intelligently. Even the Financial Needs Analysis (which I discuss later) poorly integrates information regarding securities, variable annuities and long term care insurance, leaving an agent with no clue as to what those products could, and could not do, for their client without more expert review.

For example, few agents know anything about their Long Term Care insurance product, although that is clearly something people need right now, and the PFS product is an excellent one. Instead, they know mostly how to replace cash value insurance with term. Sure, this could be important in some cases, but often isn't the biggest financial problem a client may have. Yet, if the agent is rather new to PFS, replacing cash value may be the only thing they really understand. But is this fair for the client?

I am sure there are a lot of cases where a PFS agent could have helped a client in different and more effective ways if they just had more knowledge about the product suite they represent. There is no way to determine this, though. There is no formal way for an agent's upline to monitor this lack of knowledge unless they are really involved in that agent's training (and assuming the upline knows what they are doing), so you can predict that there would be huge inconsistencies in how clients experience PFS across the board.

This is a problem in general throughout the financial services industry, but the downfall with the MLM structure is its loose supervisory approach and its the dependency upon the leadership of upline agents who may not have any more product knowledge or financial background than their recruits. Agent accountability is rarely to someone very experienced in financial matters who also take the time to review every financial solution that their agents sell.

Upline agents are also focused on recruiting and trying to build their business, so when a recruit makes a sale, they have little motivation to question if it was a good thing for the client. From a compliance perspective, the client signed all the right documents, understood all the limitations, and so on. It looks good to an auditor when they check the PFS records. But whether it was in the client's best interest or not, it can be hard to judge.

After all, PFS agent performance and accountability is measured by their income and recruiting numbers, not by the integrity of the financial solutions they bring to the client. Unfortunately, find any other financial services company that cares that much about their clients. Client success stories are exploited and displayed at meetings as evidence of PFS quality, but I doubt this reflects the majority of PFS clients.

The overlying assumption is that if you sold term insurance, that is what the client needed and you did what was right for them. If you made a big variable annuities sale, then obviously that was the client's only viable investment option (it often isn't). So, the more money you make and the larger your team, the more clients you are helping. There is rarely a question about whether they were helped in the best way possible.

So, regarding the PFS agent, between the lack of previous financial experience, the challenges in understanding their own product line, and their focus on recruiting and selling to those recruits and to their warm markets, you have to seriously wonder if the best interests of the client are objectively understood.

What about the quality of the products? In general, the products on their own are solid and in a few cases, better than most competing products. However, they can be expensive. Where there are overrides, you know the products are more expensive just to fund those overrides and sustain income up an MLM hierarchy. And to make money on securities, you have to sell front-load mutual funds, which was becoming hard for me to justify considering the other lower cost alternatives available to people. Telling someone to buy a no-load fund, unfortunately, doesn't pay the bills.

How do agents get over the cost objection? Well, they have to sell the value of the Financial Needs Analysis (FNA) which the PFS agent provides, as well as the personal relationship the agent has with the client. Clients often buy from you because you provide a complete' solution, and that you took the time to visit them in their homes to help them. But they also buy because you took the time to give them a complementary FNA to help them see their financial situation clearly.

The Financial Needs Analysis (FNA) is a tool intended to help the client understand their financial profile, then learn about possible solutions to help them solve financial problems. The FNA is prepared using a standardized computer program. However, the quality of the FNA output is still subject to the experience and thoughtfulness of the PFS agent.

In untrained or unthoughtful hands, which dare I say applies to many PFS agents, the FNA can intentionally or unintentionally build a case for a client to acquire many of the PFS products even though those products may not be the best option for them.

When I had enough experience with the FNA to do them on my own, I found it very hard to prepare them while providing a fair view for the client. The more I looked at the FNA, the more I realized that I could accidentally force wrong financial decisions with it. I decided I needed to create a number of scenarios for clients (not something the FNA tool makes easy for you), and would try to figure out in a more accurate way to represent the actual costs of, say, our SMART mortgage solution compared with other options using my own spreadsheets. In many cases, I had to tell the client that our solution would not be optimal for them, since the numbers didn't lie. But that was me.

With every FNA I produced, I realized errors I had made on previous FNAs, and noted that some of my clients had been misinformed and in some cases, prodded to buy something that either they didn't need, or in the case of insurance, covered them for more than they actually needed (thankfully a problem that is easily solved if you are willing to admit your error to the client).

But what about all the other PFS agents trying to do these FNAs? The FNA is not sophisticated enough to question its own findings, obviously. And I would be sitting at PFS meetings, and seeing part-time agents barely 20 years old with jobs working in retail stores or loading docks, wearing tee shirts and Levis, running up and grabbing term insurance commission checks. I had to wonder what they told their clients, and whether the right things were done in every case. In most cases, they were selling term insurance to their recruits. After all, the message to recruits is that you can't sell what you don't own. This is not a requirement of recruitment, but the pressure is there, whether the recruit needs the products or not.

Based on what I have observed, the FNA is just a sales tool in the guise of being a financial plan, and only a small percentage of clients follow even a good FNA plan to, say, prevent further debt problems from occurring over time. The FNA sets an expectation for long term debt elimination and increasing financial health, but I can't imagine them actually experiencing those benefits over time unless they have fully bought into the plan and that it is consistently updated by someone who fully understands what the FNA is, and isn't.

Only the most thoughtful PFS agents will return to update a client's FNA later on unless the client bought something from them when they first presented the FNA. Despite the idea that the FNA is complementary, it does take time to prepare, and most PFS agents will blow off clients who appreciated the FNA, but decided not to follow the plan (and therefore not buy a few products).

Also, there is an expectation the agent builds in their presentation to the client that the agent should receive referrals as 'compensation' for the FNA. Nothing wrong with this, but clearly the main thing agents need from a prospective client is their referrals and to convert them into a recruit. More money will come from that than any single product sale.

There is now a new version of the FNA with a questionnaire specifically designed to lead clients down the path of saying Yes, and creating an overall psychological need to acquire certain products. In some cases, clients really do need some form of life insurance, and such scripts do help them realize this need. This makes it potentially important for the client, and is a service that PFS can do very well.

However, the questionnaire also drives clients to make decisions about being recruits. In many cases, agents are told that this is the PRIMARY reason to meet with clients. That a client can solve their income problems by being a PFS agent part-time.

The FNA, by design, sells the client on being a recruit. For a majority of clients, the FNA will show a financial shortfall, especially when the agent takes into account all of the client's financial aspirations. Much of the information in the FNA are financial ideals the client would want (fully funded education funds, huge retirement amounts, 100% cash purchase of a care, etc.), which obviously overstates their cash requirements. Therefore, the FNA will show their income to be insufficient to meet those needs, even if their current income is capable of helping them meet many of their desires. Also, since the FNA can only propose the most expensive mortgage option (30 year fixed) when addressing debt consolidation, this will also overstate client expenses when you consider there may be other cheaper loan options which PFS simply do not have in their product portfolio.

The net result of the FNA, then, is to show the client that they are not making enough money to reach their "goals and dream", and when asked if they will likely get a raise, or another income source, the client sees that they need to find a way to make money part time to make up the difference. Guess what? PFS offers such an opportunity! Therefore, recruit the client and increase their income. PFS is now the solution to solve their financial deficit.

The PFS agent fully believes this is a viable option for their clients, even though we know that in all likelihood, the client will not make enough money fast enough to help them meet their FNA plan. But what actually happens is that the client becomes a recruit, the recruit is field trained in their warm market, earning income mostly for the recruiter. Then, if enough referrals are obtained at those training appointments and the recruit gets their licensing training and testing completed quickly, the new recruit has a good start in building their new business. However, most recruits do not have such a successful field training experience, which is why the fall out rate of new recruits is so high.

There is more, but I've run out of steam. Before I close, though, I want to share one personal story about why I feel like I do about PFS.

I had a new recruit, a very nice gentleman in his early 60's who had just been laid off. I pumped into him the PFS dream. He had a small warm market to start, and we were very good about getting him out to that warm market to train him. He didn't have his license in term insurance yet, so I made all the money on those sales. This is standard practice. He had a license for mortgages, but those are a hard sell in our area. I kept giving him hope about selling mortgages, since you can make a lot of money, but not one of his clients had a situation that warranted a refinance (even though we tell PFS agents to take a SMART application at every appointment regardless).

Once we visited his market, and after promises I would get some for him, we had obtained almost no referrals. We tried hard to get them, but we failed. So, all he had left to do was try to recruit people. We had already sold to those he knew. He tried to recruit. We went to malls together and tried. But he was facing financial issues, and was a gentle spirit. He wasn't the type to be too aggressive when meeting with people.

Soon, there was little more I could do. We got him to the meetings, he had a great attitude, but I was also spending more time with other recruits who were more active, more aggressive, and more demanding of my time. We talked about tactics for getting names, getting his securities license which could open more doors, and so on. But he slowly faded from the scene, and eventually relocated back east with his wife.

In PFS, you just write this off as a failure of the recruit to catch the dream', or a failure of your leadership. Point is, although I thought my intentions were honorable, the net result was that I basically exploited this recruit's warm market while selling him a dream that only becomes a reality for a very small percentage of the total PFS agent population. I knew in the back of my mind that this recruit was likely going to fail, given his wife's weak support, his gentle nature, and his lack of a real profit motive. But I still tried to sell him the dream, since it was mostly to benefit me, not him.

Sure, he learned a lot about sales, finance, and their own financial situation. But those benefits are overshadowed by the overall reason that any of those things happened for him. This wasn't the only situation like this I've experienced, and I can't help but feel sorry for the thousands of others who have been exploited by PFS agents who, like me, had good intentions, but in the end just wrote them off as a casualty of the business while moving on to the next recruit.

I am sure a lot of PFS folks will argue about what I've said, but whatever they say, they will site the examples of the minority. There are people of integrity at PFS. Part timers are making good money. And so on. But if you look at the numbers, which can be done when you access the PFS agent website, you know that only a rare few truly achieve their goals, and that so many others struggle year in and year out, in pursuit of a dream that seemed so easy for others to achieve.

My heart goes out to my friends that I've left behind at PFS. They still believe in the dream. Perhaps a few will actually experience it. My gut, though, tells me that most won't even though they are always told otherwise. Besides, the PFS social experience for them is often as important as the income. They will stay there even if they are not making money. It supplements their need for recognition and acceptance. It does this very well, but for me, it had a ever so slightly slippery veneer that I couldn't take any more.

Where I am today? In lieu of all I learned at PFS, I still had a financial crisis. I had to get an average and ordinary job. I refinanced with an Option ARM at another financial institution. I know all the risks with these loans, but it has bought our family some time to sort out our financial future. This is something PFS could not do for me. Their solution for me was just one thing: make more income, and PFS is the best way to do it.

The PFS plan obviously didn't work for me. And I was one of many bright and shining stars rising in the PFS heavens that crashed and burned and faded into its very, very short memory.

I became like that recruit I exploited. Sure, it was all with good intentions. I don't blame anyone for it. I just had to move on with my life, like he did, and learn that you can still be happy, and even proud of yourself, when you resort to being average and ordinary.

James
New York, New York
U.S.A.

Click here to read other Rip Off Reports on Primerica

7 Updates & Rebuttals


Jacquelyn

Southbridge,
Massachusetts,
U.S.A.

What is the big deal if you make it in the company you will make your 199.00 back. If you fail then you lost 199.00. I spent over 45,000 dollars on a college degree that did not guarantee me a job.

#8UPDATE Employee

Tue, June 28, 2005

I have heard all the comments about Primerica.
What I don't understand is that everyone main complaint is Primerica made them pay 199.00 for l license fee. What is the big deal if you make it in the company you will make your 199.00 back. If you fail then you lost 199.00. I spent over 45,000 dollars on a college degree that did not guarantee me a job. As a matter of fact I even went on for my master's in the field in the attempt to find a job that would even allow me to pay back my student loans. I had to pay for all my books, I hade to pay for my license to be a social worker. No one ever paid me back for any of that. Insted the state laid half of MA Social Workers off. We also had a case load to big for us to actually care about our clients. I went to college to help people not to put them on the back burner. Most of the people Primerica rep's see are people who do not even have life insurance or have any idea about it. So what is wrong about providing them with that service. You do not care about the people Primerica helps. If you did you main complaints would be about the life insurance. However, you complaints are about the 199.00 dollars you had to pay. Or how you failed at attempting to recruit people. Please Note: Primerica was one of the first LIFE INSURANCE companies to payout to the for the victims of September 11. Educate yourself and maybe next time you will suceed.


Jacquelyn

Southbridge,
Massachusetts,
U.S.A.

What is the big deal if you make it in the company you will make your 199.00 back. If you fail then you lost 199.00. I spent over 45,000 dollars on a college degree that did not guarantee me a job.

#8UPDATE Employee

Tue, June 28, 2005

I have heard all the comments about Primerica.
What I don't understand is that everyone main complaint is Primerica made them pay 199.00 for l license fee. What is the big deal if you make it in the company you will make your 199.00 back. If you fail then you lost 199.00. I spent over 45,000 dollars on a college degree that did not guarantee me a job. As a matter of fact I even went on for my master's in the field in the attempt to find a job that would even allow me to pay back my student loans. I had to pay for all my books, I hade to pay for my license to be a social worker. No one ever paid me back for any of that. Insted the state laid half of MA Social Workers off. We also had a case load to big for us to actually care about our clients. I went to college to help people not to put them on the back burner. Most of the people Primerica rep's see are people who do not even have life insurance or have any idea about it. So what is wrong about providing them with that service. You do not care about the people Primerica helps. If you did you main complaints would be about the life insurance. However, you complaints are about the 199.00 dollars you had to pay. Or how you failed at attempting to recruit people. Please Note: Primerica was one of the first LIFE INSURANCE companies to payout to the for the victims of September 11. Educate yourself and maybe next time you will suceed.


Jacquelyn

Southbridge,
Massachusetts,
U.S.A.

What is the big deal if you make it in the company you will make your 199.00 back. If you fail then you lost 199.00. I spent over 45,000 dollars on a college degree that did not guarantee me a job.

#8UPDATE Employee

Tue, June 28, 2005

I have heard all the comments about Primerica.
What I don't understand is that everyone main complaint is Primerica made them pay 199.00 for l license fee. What is the big deal if you make it in the company you will make your 199.00 back. If you fail then you lost 199.00. I spent over 45,000 dollars on a college degree that did not guarantee me a job. As a matter of fact I even went on for my master's in the field in the attempt to find a job that would even allow me to pay back my student loans. I had to pay for all my books, I hade to pay for my license to be a social worker. No one ever paid me back for any of that. Insted the state laid half of MA Social Workers off. We also had a case load to big for us to actually care about our clients. I went to college to help people not to put them on the back burner. Most of the people Primerica rep's see are people who do not even have life insurance or have any idea about it. So what is wrong about providing them with that service. You do not care about the people Primerica helps. If you did you main complaints would be about the life insurance. However, you complaints are about the 199.00 dollars you had to pay. Or how you failed at attempting to recruit people. Please Note: Primerica was one of the first LIFE INSURANCE companies to payout to the for the victims of September 11. Educate yourself and maybe next time you will suceed.


Jacquelyn

Southbridge,
Massachusetts,
U.S.A.

What is the big deal if you make it in the company you will make your 199.00 back. If you fail then you lost 199.00. I spent over 45,000 dollars on a college degree that did not guarantee me a job.

#8UPDATE Employee

Tue, June 28, 2005

I have heard all the comments about Primerica.
What I don't understand is that everyone main complaint is Primerica made them pay 199.00 for l license fee. What is the big deal if you make it in the company you will make your 199.00 back. If you fail then you lost 199.00. I spent over 45,000 dollars on a college degree that did not guarantee me a job. As a matter of fact I even went on for my master's in the field in the attempt to find a job that would even allow me to pay back my student loans. I had to pay for all my books, I hade to pay for my license to be a social worker. No one ever paid me back for any of that. Insted the state laid half of MA Social Workers off. We also had a case load to big for us to actually care about our clients. I went to college to help people not to put them on the back burner. Most of the people Primerica rep's see are people who do not even have life insurance or have any idea about it. So what is wrong about providing them with that service. You do not care about the people Primerica helps. If you did you main complaints would be about the life insurance. However, you complaints are about the 199.00 dollars you had to pay. Or how you failed at attempting to recruit people. Please Note: Primerica was one of the first LIFE INSURANCE companies to payout to the for the victims of September 11. Educate yourself and maybe next time you will suceed.


Dawn

Virginia Beach,
Virginia,
U.S.A.

James.. I appaud your honesty ..I'd like to find my "old" freind again:( ..If their services are so good, why do they need to chase people down

#8Consumer Comment

Mon, June 27, 2005

One of my closest friends is a representative for Primerica. I've known her for over 20 years and she is a different person since her involvement with PFS. She asked my husband and I to attend a meeting. After the meeting, she wanted our opinions. We were both skeptical and told her so. She came by our house and dropped off a tape for us to listen to. I didn't even take the wrapping off it because I had no interest in getting involved. It's been over a year now and I am at a point where avoidance seems the only way to deal with her. My husband and I have no debt besides our home. We have a business that we run on the side and really are not looking for the "smart loan" she's told us about. She is going for her "security" license and would like me to invest with her. She doesn't take no for an answer and I'm at my wit's end on how to handle this. She never calls to see how anyone is, or just have a normal conversation. Every word out of her mouth leads to PFS. And the "I just helped another family" line drives me crazy. It appears that her branch of PFS targets lower middle class people that aren't educated at all in finance. She's even given classes at a rec center to children on how to manage money and sent PFS material home for their parents. It doesn't seem ethical. If their services are so good, why do they need to chase people down in the local grocery stores and rec centers?

My only hope is that she sees the "light" the way you have. Your post has given me hope that she'll also see how totally consumed she's become. I'd like to find my "old" freind again:(


Paul

Anaheim,
California,
U.S.A.

James, what in the hell were you doing wasting your skill at a hack shop like primerica?

#8Consumer Suggestion

Sun, June 26, 2005

You know, I usually skip over long comments like yours. Especially when they involve primerica. The idiots from the company get going on long, drawn out diatribes that result in little, if any, intelligent discourse.

Typically, it's the same old term vs. whole life comparison.

But, in your case, after I began reading, I was simply amazed at your comprehension of the whole primerica culture. Your ability to define and assess the situation was simply astounding. Few people in society as a whole today have the insight to even understand the concepts as well as you. An even smaller subset can translate those concepts into meaningful explanations. You managed to accomplish both.

As I continued reading your comment, I was overwhelmed by one nagging question. How in the hell could the idiots at primerica ever attract or retain someone with this degree of intelligence?

Suffice to say, you are the only one in the whole company that has any brains. The rest of the agents are these dumb f**ks who can't even spell annuity, much less define it or explain its intended goal. They will never realize they're in a sinking ship.

You know, I don't mind if only the stupid get taken by primerica. They belong there. Show me any other company that would even entertain the remote possibility of hiring them. Not possible. But, when I see intelligent people getting sucked into the whole primerica scam, I'm disheartened to see them being taken advantaged like that.

As I reflected on your analysis, one explanation gradually came into focus. It's your personality that kept you there for so long. You appear to be a kind, gentle person who accepts the shortcomings of others. You don't focus on people's faults. Rather, you appear to recognize them, but choose instead to focus on positive traits in others.

You are the exact, polar opposite of someone like me.

For example, you hold citigroup in high esteem. I look at the correlation between citi and significant events like the worldcom and enron scams. Citi went in and engineered both of those events. In one fell swoop, they undid any possible good that the whole of primerica has done since its inception. Citi is a trash company. Had it been their building on 9/11, Osama would be widely recognized as a hero, instead of a plague.

You describe yourself as intensely motivated and committed. Yet, you were unable to support your family. That one admission, alone, demonstrates beyond reproach that primerica simply has a defective business model. When an intelligent, highly motivated individual such as yourself still cannot succeed, it can only lead to one conclusion. It's simply not possible to succeed with primerica.

Their business model simply doesn't work. The primary failure was not yours, but the company's. You simply failed to acknowledge that. Again, you looked at the positive instead of reality.

Successful people don't need to talk incessantly about sacrifice and never giving up. Why? Because they don't face a continual stream of failures. By its very definition, success is not having to spend long hours depriving yourself of time with your family and loved ones. Successful people end up with rewards to show for all the time they put into something.

But, to spend all your time working, and still not have much to show for it? Barely eking out a futile existence? That not success by any means. That's the epitome of failure!

You didn't make great money. Neither did the stars. Common sense tells you it's simply not possible. Again, fatally flawed business model. Devised by idiots. You go on to say it's not the fault of PFS. Wrong. Who else is left? You can't blame the janitor.

You know, Jim, success is defined as having money AND a life too. You shouldn't have to give up your family for primerica. Especially when there's no money to be made there anyway. Can you imagine? A company that expects you to give up your family and your marriage for chump change?

You'd have to be living in the twilight zone to accept something as ridiculous as that!

Your wife sounds smart. Too smart to fall for that primerica nonsense. Who the hell wants to turn a shopping trip into a situation where you need to hassle other shoppers into buying trash they don't want or need? No wonder the woman was embarrassed. It's like you're begging for spare change.

Again, loser business model. Hassling strangers in malls? Who in their right mind would possibly think that up? Trust me, you were the only one in primerica with any kind of brains.

You claim that PFS was good for its clients. Then, you go on at length to explain they only sell the limited range of products available to them. We're good for people, as long as you need something that we carry. What about when that's not the case? You end up selling them the trash anyway! Is that still good? I don't think so!

There's no way in hell your daughter would ever go to Yale on your primerica income. Not unless she told them what you did, and they felt so sorry for her that they offered a full scholarship.

Of course you're relieved that you no longer have to pester strangers in the mall! Who wouldn't be? They don't want primerica trash. But most people try to be nice. They stand there and listen to you, instead of telling you to simply move on and hassle someone else.

That's demeaning. Having to bother people like that. Did the mall security ever throw you out for doing it?

The comments on this site are NOT the ranting of lunatics. Or, pissed off agents from other companies. They are made by people with a firm grasp in reality. People who don't let some dumb f**k recruit them into nonsense where they end up chasing their tails around in circles.

Had you been able to come here BEFORE you joined up with this nonsense, you could have saved yourself, and your family a lot of heartache and aggravation. Not to mention, all the extra money you could have earned while working in a REAL job.

As for the coveted FNA, it should be renamed as primerica needs analysis. This is what primerica needs. Every time you buy up some of this trash, they pay me $50, so what do you think there, bud? See anything that interests you on here? How about this term thing? Can you please buy something, so I'll have enough for gas next week to continue to hustle this trash off? Do it to help me.

It's merely a sales pitch on a computer. That's fine, right up until the time where you choose to present it as an unbiased appraisal of your client's financial needs.

The one thing that bothered me most in your story was not the fact that you wasted years of your life on this foolishness. Pissed off your family. Or, screwed around making little or nothing when you should have been out trying to maximize your income.

Nope. It's the way you treated the elderly man you recruited. You took the money from the sale of things to his friends. You didn't share s**t with him. No split, even though he was there too. Training him. How the hell's he gonna buy lunch with training?

He influenced the sales. They were his friends. Had it not been for that, you would have been relegated to another day of hanging around the mall. You should have split the money with the guy.

You use the word mostly. Wrong! It was ALL you. He didn't benefit all. He simply wasted good time and money. At 60 years of age, how much time does he really have left?

You f**ked over a nice gentleman with a gentle spirit. Nice. Share that experience with your daughter some day.

Catch the dream? You really mean live the daydream don't you?

People come here and claim that primerica is this huge, successful company. Huge? No doubt. They sell overpriced trash. They got no sales offices to pay. No phones for clients to call in on. No advertising to support the agents.

And, hardly any commissions to pay out. Hell, I'd be rich too if I had 100,000 people out hustling trash. And then, I got to keep all the money for myself.

Trust me. That's what will happen to you too if you allow yourself to get sucked into this scam.

Just read James' comment. He's smart. If he can't make a living at primerica, what in the hell kind of chance do you have?


Primerica

Indianapolis,
Indiana,
U.S.A.

Primerica was Designed to be Part-Time; Don't Get too Greedy with it.

#8UPDATE Employee

Sat, June 25, 2005

To my colleague, James in NY,NY:
I really enjoyed your heartfelt testimonial. And, I have noticed that comments with rebuttals stay at the top of this site; whereas, those without comments quickly move down. I, therefore, offer this rebuttal to keep your story near the top for a while longer.

Primerica is primarily designed as a part-time income. It must be compared to Avon, not to MetLife. Instead of selling cosmetics or plastic kitchen ware, Primerica sells financial products. And, just as we can hear stories of people making a successful living selling Avon fulltime, we must acknowledge that most Avon dealers make occasional sales to friends, neighbors, and other social contacts. This is also how most Primerica sales reps operate too.

Partnership is important in Primerica. Alleviating one's spouse of domestic chores was an important element in the partnership workshop at the recent convention in Georgia. By the rep assuming the housework, the spouse is able to work fulltime without the stress of working all night too. I know of no RVP, or below, with whom the spouse is not a significant source of the family income. But, very few families have a single income earner today. Primerica offers a respectable secondary, or part-time income. Too many recruits assume Primerica is a primary income, it was never intended to be.

Family is what is to be most important. Primerica allows flexibility to place the family as the rep's priority. Primerica allows you to be there for your children. Primerica represents flexible hours: start when you want; end when you want; work around your family's schedule. Very few companies give you that.

Sacrifice for your dreams? Our dream is to live a leisurely life, to enjoy the time we have. Needing money to do anything is unfortunate in our society today. That is the point of each person's concerns. It is a delicate balance between having enough money to live our lives while maximizing our free time to enjoy the life we live.

Your goal in striking up conversations with people was not to sell products. It was to make acquaintances. People are animals of habit. We tend to develop routines. Our daily, weekly, and monthly routines bring us into rhythmic contact with others. By buying our groceries at the same place, at the same time each week, we will begin to see others that have the same grocery schedule. We buy gas at the same station, and at the same hour, to become familiar with the same attendant.

Rather than being two ships passing in the night, your Primerica training was to teach you to recognize reoccurring faces. This is what, in business, is called networking. As you get to know these acquaintances, they get to know you too. And, when they know someone looking to refinance or begin investing, they can say, I know of someone who can help you.

By continually broadening your social circle, you broaden your network of referrals. The goal is not to track down each person needing help; the goal is to disperse into your sphere of influence the knowledge that you are a source of help for others to come to.

As for training: The people that you help are not your clients. You have an agency relationship with Primerica. You are Primerica's agent, which makes Primerica you client. The people are your customers. These customers then become Primerica's clients when Primerica represent them as an insurance carrier. But, the people are always your customers, never your clients.

Primerica has financial experts that make the real decisions. When a Primerica Rep does an FNA for his customer, he submits the SMART application to the financial experts. The sales rep then reports back to the customer what the results were. Representatives only facilitate the sales; they do not make any important decisions. We do not personally assess a customer's situation to recommend the best suited mutual fund for their particular need. We recommend the mutual fund that Primerica's financial experts have determined is the best options to satisfy the needs of the greatest number of people.

Primerica sales reps do not have financial degrees. Primerica sales reps are not Personal Financial Analysts, which requires 24 hours of college credit in finance beyond the undergraduate level; nor are we Certified Financial Advisors or Financial Planners. Primerica sales reps are customer services representatives that provide basic explanations of the various products that are available through the Primerica outlet.

Field training teaches the recruit recognized sales techniques and familiarizes the recruit with our line of products. Nothing at Primerica teaches the rep how to analyze risk to determine a note's interest rate. Nor is anyone trained to determine which stocks and bonds would make up the best portfolio for an individual's needs. No Primerica rep is ever taught how to explain to their customer how to diversify their portfolios with funds, real estate, and other investments. Most Primerica reps do not even know what alternative investments are available. They are only taught what to say about their product offering.

Primerica reps are not financial decision makers. The FNA is designed to provide a game plan that is based on statistical probabilities [the law of large numbers]. It is a sales tool. The real financial coach is the designer of the FNA; who says, Under this circumstance do this; under that circumstance do that. Primerica reps are the cheerleaders that encourage the players, your customers, to do as the absent coach determined the right move would be in any given circumstance.

Our society is highly segmented. Marketing is designed to segment the market into workable parts. Yes, Primerica is designed for a specific segment of society. And, the Primerica training teaches its recruits how to identify that segment. So, what would be the point of wandering the malls to harass everyone you come in contact with? Potential customers must be qualified. Primerica offers very good products for the average middle-class family experiencing the average life situations. This is a very large segment that is easily tapped into.

Primerica offers Citigroup an inexpensive way of tapping into a market that was overlooked in the past. The costs of personal service was quite high in the past. Real financial analysts have to focus on wealthy clients. Computers revolutionized finance. Now cost effective instruments can be marketed to people with less money. Financial services do not have to make as much on any one customer.

You seem to embrace the notion that you are a regional leader. You have not resigned; you simply chose to become dormant. I would encourage you to return to your old base shop if you current occupation is now stable. You can enjoy the experience on a part time basis without feeling pressured. You can enjoy the status without the anxiety.

We have witnessed banks opening up in grocery stores for several years now. The internet is a prime source to purchase term-life today. Everything is becoming individual focused. And, finance is becoming an in-house opportunity. If you and your spouse work in businesses that are not insurance or finance, then all you need to do is let your co-workers know what you do part-time. They will eventually refer people to you, and you will have the part-time business that Primerica was designed to be.

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