Complaint Review: Primerica

The fact that there are 28 pages of complaints says it all. I would not touch a company that had that much about it on here with a 100 foot pole.

Primerica people rank right up there with Amway/Quixtar in sleazyness.

The fact that there are 28 pages of complaints says it all. I would not touch a company that had that much about it on here with a 100 foot pole.

Primerica people rank right up there with Amway/Quixtar in sleazyness.

The fact that there are 28 pages of complaints says it all. I would not touch a company that had that much about it on here with a 100 foot pole.

Primerica people rank right up there with Amway/Quixtar in sleazyness.

Jack,

I recently came to my senses about what this company (Primerica) is all about. It is not helping the consumer get out of debt, it is not helping the consumer become finanically independent, it is not even about educating the consumer. It is about robbing the consumer by under educating them.

Sure Primerica works with the American middle-class and sparks them to discuss their finances. But that is where the education stops and the greed begins. Remember the saying that "A little knowledge is dangerous". In this case Primerica feeds the middle-class just enough to snatch their purses and wallets.

Jack, you seem to be proud of your educational background (nothing wrong with that), just as I am proud of mine (Computer programming). But as a Computer Programming I deal in "0's" and "1's". Either something is "ON" or something is "OFF". Either Primerica does what it claims or it doesn't. How many consumers of Primerica do you know have stuck with the plan that Primerica developed for them. How many have millions of dollars in their checking account. Primerica has been around (in one form or another) since the 1970's. Show me a million dollar consumer from Primerica. Oh, I am sure you can show me a million dollar agent, but what about the consumer.

Okay now you are going to say that it is the consumers fault for not sticking with the plan but you would be wrong. Once the consumer realizes he or she has been taken, they become angry, discouraged and quit. When the consumer finally wakes up and sees the numbers, they are gone. But you know the real scandal is that now the consumer is bitter and nervous about letting anyone into their home or their finances.

If you want to educate the consumer than educate him or her. Point out that your interest rates are higher than they need to be. Point out that your insurance rates are the bomb (they will blow your mind). Point out the high front-end and the high back-end fees on your mutual funds. These are things that Primerica agents gloss over, but if you believe you will make the consumer millions of dollars, I am sure the consumer wouldn't mind paying upfront for a million dollars later. But you and I know that most (if not all) of Primerica clients will never see a million dollars in their bank accounts.

Now you may agrue that at least Primerica got them to save some money for their future. But it is sort of a bait and switch. Primerica knows what percentage of consumers stay with them and what percentage of consumers leave (turnover). You show them all these numbers to convince them that they will have millions in their bank accounts, when Primerica already knows that the majority of consumers will ever see that money. Primercia plays on greed...greed on both ends, consumer and agent.

I agree that middle-class America needs to be educated on saving more and spending less. I agree that one can accumulate millions of dollars during their lifetime. But I do not agree that Primerica can help consumer save millions of dollars during their lifetime because the products that Primerica sells do not lend themselves to that purpose. The products do favor the agents greatly and those who are fortunate (or slick) enough to recruit other individuals.

Primerica is a big disappointment to me, not because I did not succeed there; but because Primerica didn't care if I succeeded, it only cared about the warm market I had. Primerica only cares about the next sale, the next recruit. Not about creating millionaire consumers or even about creating educated consumers.

Jack

After reading your long and drawn out post I come to the conclusion that you are just a PFS agent. Everything from what a opportunity PFS is to the canned remarks you make against Stuart. While I do agree Stuart over exaggerates a lot, but he also does put out some relevant info sometimes. I was once a PFS agent so I know the canned comments you are taught to make to people who disagree with the PFS mindset, and you sound just like a PFS agent you talk about having a masters, but I want to know what university did you attend and what year? also what do you do for a living. I know in one of your past post you mentioned that you worked for a big corporation, but who? The thing here Jack is that I really don't believe that a person claiming to have a masters in corporate finances, and working for some big time corporation with all these years of education and experience will "stumble" onto this website and defend a pyramid scam company who has uneducated, incompetent people selling overpriced crap! If your as educated as you claim to be I think you would not be defending PFS at all. That's why I believe your just a PFS agent posing as somebody with half a brain.

Jack, do you know the mission of Ripoff Report? In case you don't I'll quote:

"Victim of a consumer Rip-off? Want justice? Rip-off Report is a worldwide consumer reporting Website & Publication, by consumers, for consumers, to file & document complaints about companies or individuals who ripoff consumers."

Trying to do damage control is not helping ripped off consumers. What are you doing about this Jack?

I'm trying to alert the visitors and others what type of company Primerica really is to help those who have been and are still being victimized and keep others from falling into the same trap. The frontline agents are among those being victimized. Even the website you mentioned, http://ww3.primerica.com/public/jan05-bests-review.pdf,
clearly shows that the agents are being victimized.

How so? The 2004 financials indicate that maybe
300,000 life policies would be issued during 2004.

Divide that by 107,000 agents and you get less than 3 policies being sold per agent on average.
And don't give us that the agents are part time.
Since term is still the basis for Primerica, then
a rational person would agree that it's very pathetic what a Primerican frontliner has to look
forward to.

I want to comment on something Jack has said
which I'll quote:

"The article was illustrating that other companies have bigger problems with deceptive sales practices and actually was praising PFS, acknowledging that all companies have problems, but PFS's are relatively smaller. Why did Stuart not mention that? You decide"

I did mention it Jack. I quote myself:

"(I'm aware of other insurance companies also having fines and settlements - this still doesn't
make it right)." I did give the website address and as I already mentioned, two wrongs don't make a right.

Why didn't the other Primerican posters mention that AM Best's upgraded rating on Primerica was
about compliance (which is what you would expect
from any company)? Why did Primerica leave us
hanging thinking it had to do with financial stength? You decide.

Quoting Jack again:

"I thought that it was strange that Primerica would have such negative information on their site." I agree with you on this one.

Another Jack quote:

"This means this response has a short window, because I will not continually return. I found this site on accident and piped in..."

Isn't it amazing that Primericans trolling in
always find this site by "accident"? As far as
Jack coming back here, if it's not him, it'll be
another Primerica stooge.

So Jack, what are you doing internally at Primerica to help out the victims of Primerica?
(BTW it appears you're in the wrong type of job,
you should be doing PR work with a good company).

Next one puppetmaster.

Now this is more like it. Jack, you are obviously an educated person and I compliment you on your writing style it is concise and cogent.

You will probably say that I have ulterior motives because I left PFS to pursue a more independent career in financial services, but while I may be critical in my opinions, I have never been malicious or unwilling to compare products and strategies. It is specifically these areas where I believe PFS is weak.

I must respond to your comment:

Conclusion: PFS smokes the competition whose only response is slander. The business created a streamlined distribution system and allows anyone willing to learn what's needed to get the job done without a lot of irrelevant information that's not pertinent to the job

What is the irrelevant information you speak of? From my experience, PFS believes that a thorough understanding of tools, strategies and techniques of financial planning are irrelevant. I have not been independent for very long and I certainly saw no increase in sophistication of the training at PFS. In fact, PFS has been petitioning for the establishment of a term only insurance license. This seems to be a move away from better-trained agents and in my opinion will be a dumbing down of the industry.

While I have given credit to Art Williams for changing the industry and have recognized that the PFS marketing system is very successful, that does not necessarily mean that they are above reproach or that the PFS strategy is completely sound. I don't really worry too much about regulatory action. When I see a company that has some sort of action taken against it, I know that the regulatory system is working. It is extremely difficult to find a company that is unblemished. I don't have a problem with the Network Marketing system that some do. My major issue is that recruiting is given precedence over training in sound financial principles and strategies at PFS. You say that PFS reps do the job well, and they sell insurance and mutual funds well, but shouldn't a representative of a financial services company that educates people how to retire wealthy have at least some understanding of the long-term ramifications of the strategy they recommend? Shouldn't they at least know something about wealth preservation and transfer?
You seem to be implying that building a large business somehow precludes the need for having agents be knowledgeable. I could not disagree more. In fact, as the size of an organization grows, the emphasis should be on higher standards of training and education to ensure the continuing success of the company and its agents.

Stepping away from PFS was enlightening. Now I must say that I have been fortunate to find a very good teacher and I have learned more about finances and insurance in the short time I have been working with my new associate than I learned in more than two years at PFS. There are some very simple strategies that can increase ones retirement income that would blow your mind. These would be easily incorporated into the PFS strategy, but PFS as a company is so rigid that they can't adapt. This is the major reason that their products are not competitive. They have a large sales force so they sell a lot of products but that does not necessarily mean those products, especially the insurance, are the best available.


I am more than willing to do a purely objective comparison of products, strategies and business models without all the emotion and vitriol. I have done that comparison myself and that is the major reason I left PFS. I could no longer believe I was doing the absolute best thing for my clients with the limited tools and resources I had available to me at PFS. I am confident that I am doing the best job for my clients now because I can offer them an infinite combination of choices to fit their needs. I no longer have to come in with a one size fits all program. My agents are learning to be true financial professionals and are building their own businesses at the same time. One does not exclude the other.

Now this is more like it. Jack, you are obviously an educated person and I compliment you on your writing style it is concise and cogent.

You will probably say that I have ulterior motives because I left PFS to pursue a more independent career in financial services, but while I may be critical in my opinions, I have never been malicious or unwilling to compare products and strategies. It is specifically these areas where I believe PFS is weak.

I must respond to your comment:

Conclusion: PFS smokes the competition whose only response is slander. The business created a streamlined distribution system and allows anyone willing to learn what's needed to get the job done without a lot of irrelevant information that's not pertinent to the job

What is the irrelevant information you speak of? From my experience, PFS believes that a thorough understanding of tools, strategies and techniques of financial planning are irrelevant. I have not been independent for very long and I certainly saw no increase in sophistication of the training at PFS. In fact, PFS has been petitioning for the establishment of a term only insurance license. This seems to be a move away from better-trained agents and in my opinion will be a dumbing down of the industry.

While I have given credit to Art Williams for changing the industry and have recognized that the PFS marketing system is very successful, that does not necessarily mean that they are above reproach or that the PFS strategy is completely sound. I don't really worry too much about regulatory action. When I see a company that has some sort of action taken against it, I know that the regulatory system is working. It is extremely difficult to find a company that is unblemished. I don't have a problem with the Network Marketing system that some do. My major issue is that recruiting is given precedence over training in sound financial principles and strategies at PFS. You say that PFS reps do the job well, and they sell insurance and mutual funds well, but shouldn't a representative of a financial services company that educates people how to retire wealthy have at least some understanding of the long-term ramifications of the strategy they recommend? Shouldn't they at least know something about wealth preservation and transfer?
You seem to be implying that building a large business somehow precludes the need for having agents be knowledgeable. I could not disagree more. In fact, as the size of an organization grows, the emphasis should be on higher standards of training and education to ensure the continuing success of the company and its agents.

Stepping away from PFS was enlightening. Now I must say that I have been fortunate to find a very good teacher and I have learned more about finances and insurance in the short time I have been working with my new associate than I learned in more than two years at PFS. There are some very simple strategies that can increase ones retirement income that would blow your mind. These would be easily incorporated into the PFS strategy, but PFS as a company is so rigid that they can't adapt. This is the major reason that their products are not competitive. They have a large sales force so they sell a lot of products but that does not necessarily mean those products, especially the insurance, are the best available.


I am more than willing to do a purely objective comparison of products, strategies and business models without all the emotion and vitriol. I have done that comparison myself and that is the major reason I left PFS. I could no longer believe I was doing the absolute best thing for my clients with the limited tools and resources I had available to me at PFS. I am confident that I am doing the best job for my clients now because I can offer them an infinite combination of choices to fit their needs. I no longer have to come in with a one size fits all program. My agents are learning to be true financial professionals and are building their own businesses at the same time. One does not exclude the other.

Hi Stuart,
I have read many of the postings trying to weight out the information. I have commented a few times to provide points of view from my education and business experience that I believe people seeking answers will appreciate. Thank you for pointing out the article as I found it very informative. The article was also influential in getting a clearer picture you.
To All:
It seems that like the Bible, you can put whatever spin you want, but if without preconceived notions or agendas, readers will see a clear picture. If you have a negative view, or are the competition, you'll naturally be a critic. I have raised the question to myself, is this site just a haven for competition trying to kill a competitorall normal business?

I would like to reference a few of the article's points myself momentarily. I noticed the source was an industry watch: (Source: Best's Review, February 1997). Interestingly, I went to the web and found an even more recent article that people should take the time to read: http://ww3.primerica.com/public/jan05-bests-review.pdf. It will provide more objective information for people seeking unbiased information. Take that and run, and if you want to put Stuart's credibility to the test, continue reading below as well.

Sadly, I believe that there is a group investing a lot of time ensuring that their negative spin is most likely seen first by people that will read a short bit and form an opinion as I've noticed that the most recent responses/articles are pushed to the top, leaving someone that is not constantly around buried where they will most likely not be found. One has to wonder why. This means this response has a short window, because I will not continually return. I found this site on accident and piped in, and have found many seem to be defending positions verses trying to provide real information and a better understanding of business and an opportunity to build wealth while helping people in the real world.

Comments to Stuart's information from page three:
1) The article was illustrating that other companies have bigger problems with deceptive sales practices and actually was praising PFS, acknowledging that all companies have problems, but PFS's are relatively smaller. Why did Stuart not mention that? You decide
But PFS stands above the fray as one mainline insurer after another falls victim to multimillion-dollar policyholder lawsuits alleging deceptive sales practices. Moreover, PFS has one of the strongest compliance programs in the industry, said Michael L. Albanese, vice president in the life/health division of A.M. Best Co.

2) Also, in context, the article mentions that the industry was beat up by this company that was started by consumers for consumers; the industry retaliated against people getting smart by taking cheap shots to help stop truth from destroying their livelihood.

PFS agents still have a reputation within the industry as unsophisticated, poorly trained part-timers who sell overpriced, simple products -- and then drop out. While some of that rap is warranted, it's hard to argue with success. Primerica has been the top seller of term insurance for the past 13 years and the top seller of all types of individual life insurance by face amount for at least nine of those 13 years.

Conclusion: PFS smokes the competition whose only response is slander. The business created a streamlined distribution system and allows anyone willing to learn what's needed to get the job done without a lot of irrelevant information that's not pertinent to the job. From reading other information, the industry has a high turnover rate, not just PFS. There are a lot of people with technical training (me being one with a Master's in Corporate Finance), but many miss fundamental reality checks with practical business applications and get stuck in over analysis and miss the boat. It is the feedback of many executives that many B-School students miss opportunities in the market place because they are too narrow in application of education. When I read, While some of that rap is warranted., I am hearing that the industry still kicks the dirt in anger at getting their but kicked and simply resorts to name calling. It was not a statement confirming that PFS agents are unsophisticated, etc, but a statement about what the industry has resorted to using as counter-business retaliation.

3) Nothing negative about this:
Other large insurers share the goal of penetrating the middle-market but few are doing it effectively, Albanese said. While other companies increasingly turn to mass-marketing to sell term, PFS resists the commodity approach. The company doesn't even advertise. Instead, its agents are becoming the hand-holding financial planners for the middle class. "PFS is differentiating itself in the term marketplace by selling a package of services to the middle market," Albanese said. "It's one of the select few companies in the industry with a formalized needs-based sales program."

4) The competition appears envious:
PFS is succeeding by filling a void in the market. ALW, Primerica, Travelers -- whatever you want to call it -- has made a bundle from selling to the very people we've neglected,' wrote Edward Keenan, managing editor of Probe, a life-insurance newsletter published by Alan Press, a former NALU president who is the company's staunchest critic.

5) Bottom line, it works and it works for those willing to work:
'PFS has really become a fairly powerful source of distribution for the whole Travelers Group,' said Morgan Stanley analyst Michael Blumstein. For all the rap that PFS has gotten over the years, it turns out that a sales force of motivated part-timers across the country can be pretty powerful.'"

The article also mentions that the company is becoming more sophisticated and has initiated more training programs. It goes on about getting tougher on compliance, thus part of the rating increase I infer. As I studied in college and observed in the business world since, it is not uncommon for competition to use regulations/laws to beat the competition. Why? Because when you are losing on merit, hit em where you can. Especially heavily regulated industries. The above shows there is history of attacking the company because they started a crusade to better inform and help consumers about insurance and money. The below from page 4 seems to indicate that the industry tried, and still is I am sure, using politics and legislation. As a practitioner of business/finance, this is a red-flag indicator that they could not compete on merit.

"Art's rhetoric incited political activism on the part of traditional underwriters. The industry tried to seek help where it could, and that meant trying to crush the behemoth they were having to deal with," Olson said. "Today PFS is way ahead of the curve in compliance because it always had to run a little faster to keep the dog from biting."

Personally, what gave me the biggest burr was when I found that the comment about the fines from page 4 left off that the rest of the paragraph was this: By contrast, settlements and fines from market conduct problems will cost Prudential Insurance Co. of America, Newark, N.J., as much as $2 billion; Metropolitan Life Insurance Co., New York, $100 million; Phoenix Home Life Mutual Insurance Co., East Greenbush, N.Y., $100 million; and New York Life Insurance Co., New York, $65 million. Those are just the top of the heap.

Taking Stuart's comments as the word without reading the information for myself would have left me with a negative opinion of the company. I was extremely disappointed and ticked off, but then I remembered in college, it was warned be careful of the sources of on-line information. What I found by reading Stuart's source was that it was complimenting the company on its great job overall. That only further cemented my conclusion that all the negative information on this site is the competition and not a credible source of objective information.

The whole article is talking about the company, competitors, the industry and a little history. Stuart took extracts and used them in manipulative ways to fit an agenda. I thought that it was strange that Primerica would have such negative information on their site. Apparently, Stuart thinks that most people are too lazy to check things out for themselves. I encourage anyone trying to get real information, to read the article themselves with a business hat on and without preconceived notions, and to stop paying attention to a bunch with ulterior motives.