Complaint Review: PRIMERICA

Well, dumbfounded, if you needed any validation of your original sentiments, it looks like the Primericans themselves have provided plenty of it!

Let's take a look at this:

"1. PFS has more people in this company earning between $100,000 to $999,999 than any other company in the world, that is public record look it up."

This may be correct, but how many other companies recruit 180,000 new employees every year? The "most six figure earners in the world" isn't that impressive when you blaze through 2 million recruits per decade, is it?

"2. PFS has more million dollar earners than any company on the planet, look it up."

I incorporate my above statement herein.

"3. PFS leads the industry consistently in placing in force more face value life insurance than any company in the world, look it up."

So what? As far as I know, you're the ONLY company who focuses so heavily on doing this. And, again, with millions fo recruits coming and going, it's only natural that the BUSINESS would be successful. What does that say about the caliber of the opportunity? NOTHING!

Empty statistics are worthless. UNfortunately, empty statistics are all that Primerica has going for them. The unsophisticated may be wowed by such half-truths. The rest of us realize that these stats are used only when the whole truth works against you.

The rest of the comments were, pretty much, nothing but ridiculous character attacks. Wasn't unprofessionalism the first big turn off for dumbfounded? Way to confirm his suspicions. You Primericans are a real class act.

Thank you so very much I have just recently moved to Charlotte and posted my resume on online sites. I received a call today from a very nice woman who saw my resume and thougth I would be perfect as I had a strong background in Automtive Finance and Real Estate. She also told me it was to open and run an office as they were opening 10 new offices in Charlotte. She also used the Citigroup connects as a crutch and put it in everyother word. As we are long standing citibank customers I agreed to go to an interview next tuesday night as I didn't want to rush into anything the first day I was contacted.

I have decided that every call I get from unsoliscited companies needs to be researched, as it could be a scam. I also found it odd that the woman calling me was using her home phone and not a business number. She never mentioned that the meeting would be a group meeting, that a training fee is involved . It was represented as a legitimate job. Thank you for posting as they seem to be making the rounds of charlotte and I am not interested.

Thank you so very much I have just recently moved to Charlotte and posted my resume on online sites. I received a call today from a very nice woman who saw my resume and thougth I would be perfect as I had a strong background in Automtive Finance and Real Estate. She also told me it was to open and run an office as they were opening 10 new offices in Charlotte. She also used the Citigroup connects as a crutch and put it in everyother word. As we are long standing citibank customers I agreed to go to an interview next tuesday night as I didn't want to rush into anything the first day I was contacted.

I have decided that every call I get from unsoliscited companies needs to be researched, as it could be a scam. I also found it odd that the woman calling me was using her home phone and not a business number. She never mentioned that the meeting would be a group meeting, that a training fee is involved . It was represented as a legitimate job. Thank you for posting as they seem to be making the rounds of charlotte and I am not interested.

Thank you so very much I have just recently moved to Charlotte and posted my resume on online sites. I received a call today from a very nice woman who saw my resume and thougth I would be perfect as I had a strong background in Automtive Finance and Real Estate. She also told me it was to open and run an office as they were opening 10 new offices in Charlotte. She also used the Citigroup connects as a crutch and put it in everyother word. As we are long standing citibank customers I agreed to go to an interview next tuesday night as I didn't want to rush into anything the first day I was contacted.

I have decided that every call I get from unsoliscited companies needs to be researched, as it could be a scam. I also found it odd that the woman calling me was using her home phone and not a business number. She never mentioned that the meeting would be a group meeting, that a training fee is involved . It was represented as a legitimate job. Thank you for posting as they seem to be making the rounds of charlotte and I am not interested.

Thank you so very much I have just recently moved to Charlotte and posted my resume on online sites. I received a call today from a very nice woman who saw my resume and thougth I would be perfect as I had a strong background in Automtive Finance and Real Estate. She also told me it was to open and run an office as they were opening 10 new offices in Charlotte. She also used the Citigroup connects as a crutch and put it in everyother word. As we are long standing citibank customers I agreed to go to an interview next tuesday night as I didn't want to rush into anything the first day I was contacted.

I have decided that every call I get from unsoliscited companies needs to be researched, as it could be a scam. I also found it odd that the woman calling me was using her home phone and not a business number. She never mentioned that the meeting would be a group meeting, that a training fee is involved . It was represented as a legitimate job. Thank you for posting as they seem to be making the rounds of charlotte and I am not interested.

Hi Juliet,

You've made an excellent point. To date the only
thing Primerica does is check for a criminal background. They don't run a credit check on any
applicants.

It would make sense to do that since you have people who are supposed to be financial reps selling insurance and investments products (and advising too).

Role of PFS reps is to act as a middle man between you and Citigroup companies. Hence the name, Primerica is a marketing division of Citigroup. Why Primerica recruit anybody (besides criminals)? To increase distribution. Most reps who join don't have any financial experience. When they get their life license within a month or so, they're going to know everything about life insurance that a normal person wouldn't know. About two months to 5 months (if they attend weekly training), they going to gain general knowledge about Debt Consolidation/Refinancing and Mortgages. We're not suppose to understand everything about Debt Consolidation and Mortgages because we don't analyze what type of loan you qualify for. Other companies does it for us. After they pass the NASD Series 6 exam, they going to know everything about Variable Annuities and Mutual Funds and different retirement accounts such as IRA, Roth IRA, 401(k), 403(b), etc.

The Primerica products you talk about? They only own two products: Primerica Life and PFS Investments Inc. Other things such as SMART loan, HOME loan, Prepaid Legal, Long Term Care, and Variable Annuities are owned by other companies. By getting clients to these companies, the companies pay us commissions, similar to a travel agent.

Primerica believes Citigroup products and the companies we work with are great, hence the reason why we don't market other companies. We don't market any other life insurance companies because we believe term insurance is the best product for most clients. Plus, Primerica Life does not sell multiple policies per household. We combined them all so that there is only 1 policy fee. For others, variable life/variable annuities maybe the best way to go for them (most reps can't market those until they get their securities license). "Don't Metlife own Traveler's Life and Annuity?" Yes they do, but we still got a contract to do business with them. As for investments, that lies in the hands of Legg Mason, Inc. (Citigroup got rid of Citigroup Asset Management business in exchange for broker-dealer business of Legg Mason on June 24, 2005)

You only get a charge back for the life sale if the client decides to switch to another company during the first 2 years. Why? Because PFS use all the premiums of the first two years and pays it out to the sales force. If client leaves during the third year or after, the only one losing money is the company itself.

An average premium is about $1000. If you just joined the business and get licensed, you get $250 ($350 is you recruit 3 people. Doesn't matter if they all quit because once you get promoted, you can't get demoted). RVPs make $950 plus 30% bonus on top of that. For just 3 to 4 hours of work, that's a lot of money on a part-time basis. If the RVP get a chargeback, he/she loses $950, but keeps the bonus.

I find Primerica scary mainly because they are willing to recruit ANYONE to be a financial representative. This is not smart. I really do not want the person who is "helping" me to have, in actuality, more debt and past due accounts than I ever will. By making it so easy to become a rep, they are guaranteeing that some not so financially astute people are going to be messing around with families' finances when the "rep" can't keep themselves out of bankruptcy, or close to it.

Primerica's "products" also give me cause for concern. I would no more want to buy a policy for insurance, or anything else, from a "captive" Primerican than any other "captive" agent. If I can review a number of companies and then make my choice based on those reviews, if it all goes wrong, I'm the only one to blame. If my "expert" Primerican leads me to disaster, well, whoopee - I got someone to blame.

Hi,

Where you say "you will be under the PFS thumb for two years." I have to disagree with. More like
permanent because your commission can be charged back anytime (even after you leave Primerica) when a
client cancels his or her policy (just check your
contract).

I'll take your points one by one

PFS is sales in the traditional sense, not nontraditional as you say. The FNA is designed to make a client worried enough about their financial situation so they'll buy a product from you. You really don't educate anyone. Do you think that saying all permanent insurance is bad and showing the rule of 72 and the theory of decreasing responsibility is education? For one, I have yet to meet a PFS agent who truly understands insurance and proper insurance planning. And two, the theory of decreasing responsibility is a perfect case scenario and therefore is a poor premise to base one's financial future on because we all know this is not a perfect world.

Commission only is no big deal; many people do extremely well in commission only sales.

You imply that you don't have to sell insurance if you don't want to. Aren't all promotions based on insurance sales and recruits? You have to sell insurance if you want a higher commission. And don't get confused, as a rep you don't do asset management, and all asset allocation means is that you give people a few choices of mutual funds. By debt management, you mean you sell them a SMART loan. I've talked about that in another thread. Here is a link: http://www.ripoffreport.com/reports/ripoff147643.htm

PFS is owned by Citigroup, but is responsible for its own financial obligations. I don't see why you all think that is so great. Many insurance companies are owned by other companies. GE owns insurance companies, as do many other Fortune 500 companies

The $199 is no big deal either, but some states do not require that you take a class to get licensed, so it is not required by law in all states.

All businesses have expenses and you can be as frugal or as extravagant as you wish, but you will have to spend some money on your business.

You have to be clear that you don't ever really own your business at PFS. If this was true, then you could take your book of business and your sales team with you if you leave. You can't. Further more, if you leave, you will be under the PFS thumb for two years. It's all spelled out in the contract. You should read it carefully.

To be an RVP requires that you give up as many legs as your upline wants. I know a guy whose upline wanted to take his 2 best producers before he could go RVP. You're trying to tell me that he owns his own business even though he can't keep his best agents? You also can't work at any other job if you want to be an RVP. So again if you own your own business, shouldn't it be your choice if you want to work a part time job that provides health benefits?

How do you make money? You recruit a new person and sell insurance and mutual funds to his friends and family. Shouldn't you let him make those sales when he is licensed instead of feeding off of his best market? Get your own clients and take a new guy along on those appointments for training and then supervise him with his warm market after he is licensed. I see PFS reps that care more about their recruit's top 25 list than they do about the recruit.

And generally it's only the first year's commissions that are given to the sale force, not the first 2 yrs. And if your clients are only staying with PFS for 7 yrs, then how can you say you are helping them become financially independent? They don't stay because hopefully after they see a PFS rep and get put into an inflexible plan with products that are too expensive and not competitive, they meet up with an insurance agent that can show them how to use insurance and not just buy it. Someone who understands insurance can show people how to get more money to live on out of a 401K if they have the right term insurance in the right amount, or how to offset future investment gains from taxes with a term policy. Or how to get a guaranteed 7% return even in down markets. PFS does not teach you how to do any of that.

Take the time to study insurance and financial planning and stop believing everything your RVP tells you.
.

Where John says:

"All primerica reps are independent business owners"nisn't true, even for RVPs (just check your IBA contract).

Welcome back Paul,

Where you say "...just noticing that ANYONE can write whatever they want on the Internet, without regard to its validity or veracity....", all you have to do is say "prove it" by sending documentation to Ripoff Report who'll post it. And there are other websites including Primerica's where you can check out things. So we don't have to just take the word of anybody.

I love it when I see a post by someone who is intimidated, and afraid to step outside thier little box and open thier eyes.
The company you openly slam is not a scam at all. As a matter of fact in many respects PFS is one of the most successfull companies on Earth.

The facts

1. PFS has more people in this company earning between $100,000 to $999,999 than any other company in the world, that is public record look it up.

2. PFS has more million dollar earners than any company on the planet, look it up.

3. PFS leads the industry consistently in placing in force more face value life insurance than any company in the world, look it up.

So before you let your ignorance and your limp wristed personality take over, do your research. Don't let the "tall and handsome,big guy" intimidate you. Be a man, and take responsibility for your own failures.

I am glad you didn't join our company, you obviously dont have what it takes to make it in the open market. So just go back to work, and keep kissing your bosses butt for the next thirty years and retire broke.

Have a nice day!

When I was approached by a family member to attend a Primerica meeting, I was initially hesitant, especially since nothing was explained to me regarding what would be discussed in the meeting to come. Such a lask of forthcoming worries me.

The day of the meeting, I arrived late, and met up with a friend. Her first words to me were, "This is a cult." I became upset beacuase 7 years earlier,I was suckered into an Amway meeting, and was frightened by their representatives. The Primerica meeting reminded me of that. And at the risk of sounding like a snob, I have a hard time listening to the script that these reps follow (which was eerily reminiscent of what was heard at the Amway meetings), from a person in a cheap suit. I believe that when you are looking for new costumers, you are too look, and dress the part. It makes it that much more believable, for me at least. Something else bothered me, some of the reps that spoke, butchered the english language. This is not to say that my grammar is on par with that of an english proffessor at say a prestigious university, but I believe that we should speak the way we were taught in school.

After the high octane meeting, I too was told to provide 6 references. I told them that I was uncomfortable in doing so because I do not like giving pesonal information to complete strangers. Also, I made them painfully aware that I DID NOT WANT TO BECOME A REPRESENTATIVE. I did however, agreed to meet with one of the reps on securing my financial future. My debts are little to none, my savings, and checking accounts are low, but I have two 401k's, and Life Insurance which at the time of my retirement can be used as supplemental income.

I am not savvy in all things financial, but I think I have substantial knowledge. After hearing his sales pitch, and going through the FNA, I agreed to buy insurance as well as rollover one of my 401k's into their annuities. I did this inspite of the rep making me look as if I haven't a clue as to how to make my money work for me. As well as trying to pressure me into cancelling my current insurance policy. He put me down for having more two savings accounts, and peppered me with questions as to why I would be foolish enough to do so. He also tried to ridicule me on how I paid off my previous credit card debts, but after having explained it to him on how it was accomplished...he dumied up. And all this from someone who has been at this for less than two years, has absolutely no formal training in this field. I've been planning my retirement for 4 years now, I'm only 34. How dare he.
Now, what I need to know is....are their products on the up and up? I want to meet people who have invested with them, and have seen good returns. I haven't signed any contracts yet, since I'm researching the company to see if anyone has lost any money in their insurance/annuities programs.

SERIOUSLY CONCERNED,

I am glad to see someone was asking questions and not just shelling out money. If a company has that many complaints something is wrong. Paul and Primerica, instead of boasting about how great the company is and putting the person how about ANSWERING the questions, at least someone was nice enought to answer the questions instead of doing the proverbial "two step" around the issues that were brought up. You can bash the fact a person was laid off and have an education and was making six figures but you two couldnt answer simple questions. This company is a joke and since I see what the breed of people they have working for them I will be sure to inform anyone who asks to avoid this company at all costs

Anyway, it seems your experience at the office wasn't pleasant. The sales force is constantly changing. Some people join and some of them quit. Those who stick may stick around a little longer and then quit or is really working hard to make this business work. Why you weren't getting any straight answers? Most people are new and inexperience. HOWEVER, if you were talking to a RVP or NSD, they should be able to answer all your questions. What questions did you ask? Maybe I can help (even if you're not interested). What's my level? Just a senior rep (the first promotion you get) and I've been working there just over 8 months. Money is pretty good for part-time basis. On average, I make about $400 on just spending 3-4 hours with a client. I'm going to answer some common questions I generally get:

1) Is this sales? Yes in a less traditional sense. Instead selling people our products and saying stuff like "this is great! you got to try this product!", we educate them. If the concepts makes sense, they make the choice of whether to do business or not. We basically show them their current situation and show what could happen if they went ahead with our program.

2) Is this commissions? Yes! Is there something you don't like about it? It's not steady at the very beginning because you don't have a large team. Most reps who start the business work part time while making money at the other job.

3) Is this life insurance? It's one of things we do. We also do mortgages, refinancing, prepaid legal, retirement plans, college plans, debt management, asset management, and asset allocation. If you don't like doing life insurance, then you don't have to sell it. But you still need to get a life license to get paid in all the other areas we do.

4) Are you really a member of Citigroup? Check the Citigroup website yourself. www.citigroup.com

5) What's the $199 fee for? 1)To go to life licensing school that is required by law 2)$40 of that fee would be used to do background check (non-refundable) 3)It allows you to do prepaid legal 4)To be certified to do HOME loans and debt consolidation.

6) Is there any other expenses? Not really. Only expenses you will have is traveling and your own personal business expenses (business cards, presentations, brochures, and communication). Your upline or your RVP may supply brochures and other literatures for you.

7) What are the benefits? You get to own your business, unlimited income potential, the opportunity to be financially independent if you work hard at the beginning, owning multiple licenses such as life and securities, the right to recruit and build a team, the chance to go on company trips!

8) What about health benefits? As a independent business owner, you are responsible for getting your own health coverage. If you really think about it, whether a company provides it or you get it on your own, the cost is still coming out of your paycheck. Which way is cheaper? I really don't know.

9) Any quotas? Nope. You work at your own pace on your own schedule.

10) What are the company trips like? Unbelievable! Everything is paid for! When you land at your destination, there would be someone holding a sign with your name on it and he/she will take you to the limo and drive you to the hotel. Every night, when you return to your room, there would be a free gift waiting on your bed (candy, t-shirt, hat, um.. more candy baskets. lol). You will get to hang out with some of the millionaires and the top producers in the company.

11) How do you make money? Through my own personal sales and when my teammates make money.

12) So, how does the company make money if they pay so much commissions? An average client usually sticks with Primerica for about 7 years. For the first 2 years, Primerica gives all that money to the sales force. After that, they keep the rest.

Dear Dumbfounded:

If you had no outlay, which was lost due to deception, I fail to understand how you claim to have been ripped off? Six figure income? 32 years old? Laid off? Living near a moderate income person pursuing a career with Primerica? I am sorry, I do not believe the six figure income; it does not fit with some of your other alleged facts.

"She drove me to this office where we were greeted by a host of mostly men wearing suits but none of them spoke a word." No one spoke? What were they, a wall of thugs? Only you asked legitimate inquiries? So, everyone was stupid compared to you? They simply nodded to the manipulation?

Another thing that makes little sense as well: If you had a six figure income, you would be familiar with business seminars. These seminars often do have very condensed information compared to information taught over several weeks at college. After all, college courses are 3 credit hours, which is to say - 3 hours per week x 15 weeks, or 45 hours. A one-day seminar of 8 hours is equal in time to 3 weeks of college classroom time. Plus, lots of time in college courses is spent reminding the students of what was previously covered. Seminars are several hours of uninterrupted information specific to the subject at hand. Seminars often cover in just a day what would take a half semester to cover in school.

But, Your Primerica experience did not talk about a seminar equal to six months of college courses as you implied. The weekend in DC was a seminar that would expose you to the information that would routinely be provided over a six month period during the Saturday morning base-shop training sessions, which was a very reasonable assertion to make by your local RVP.

Your entire complaint is one exaggeration after the other, none of which can be believed. Nor are you even able to offer a complaint of being ripped off since you never lost anything. You never even gave the Primerica opportunity a chance to work; so you do not know if the opportunity may have worked for you.

You offer nothing but rumor and inuendo in an attempt to build your own ego. You simply want to impress upon yourself that you are more than what you actually are because you were able to tell a tale on a website.

Point of fact: You were laid off. Anonymous vanity is unbecoming.

Over the past 5 years, Primerica recruited an average of some 15,000 associates per month. Yet, we maintain an average of 110,000 representatives. This is to say that some 180,000 people are recruited and 180,000 people quit every year. 15 complaints per page x 30 pages = 450 complaints. These are not complaints by Primerica clients. These complaints represent disguntled get-rich-quick schemers who paid $199 for magic beans that did not grow over night. The 442 actual complaints span 5 years. And, many of the complaints are a few same people. Still, 180,000 x 5 year = 900,000; of which 442 is less than 0.05% of all that have come and gone from Primerica.

Primerica is not the rip off that you suggest. The overwhelming number of recruits recognize Primerica as a legitimate opportunity with legitimate products that they simply did not dedicate enough effort to capitalize on. It is an extremely minute few - the get-rich-quick schemers - that come to these tabloid sites to spread rumor and inuendo in an effort to deny their own responsibility for their failures.

Welcome back.

You commented "ANYONE can write whatever they want on the Internet, without regard to its validity or veracity." That's why Ripoff Report offers anyone
the opportunity to back up what they're saying with
documentation (which Primericans won't do as they
have a long yellow streak running down their backs).

I myself have documented referring to websites
including Primerica's. So it's just not a simple case of somebody running off his or her mouth (such
as the other Paul). All you have to do is to say
"prove it."

Welcome back.

You commented "ANYONE can write whatever they want on the Internet, without regard to its validity or veracity." That's why Ripoff Report offers anyone
the opportunity to back up what they're saying with
documentation (which Primericans won't do as they
have a long yellow streak running down their backs).

I myself have documented referring to websites
including Primerica's. So it's just not a simple case of somebody running off his or her mouth (such
as the other Paul). All you have to do is to say
"prove it."

Welcome back.

You commented "ANYONE can write whatever they want on the Internet, without regard to its validity or veracity." That's why Ripoff Report offers anyone
the opportunity to back up what they're saying with
documentation (which Primericans won't do as they
have a long yellow streak running down their backs).

I myself have documented referring to websites
including Primerica's. So it's just not a simple case of somebody running off his or her mouth (such
as the other Paul). All you have to do is to say
"prove it."

Wow. I am so sorry that you found yourself on the wrong end of a person and/or office that was not very friendly. Hopefully, someone will talk to them soon. I know my office here in Southwest Florida is very open about everything involved with the business, and I know the home office encourages all offices to be that way. Unfortunately, since they are independent, sometimes people get the wrong impression from people who lack personal skills or have been improperly or inadequately trained. I would hope that this experience does not totally turn you off to PFS, since the company does do great things for their clients, and some people do find success at the business.

I do find it interesting that you say the following, "According to Primerica, your website is completely bogus and they thought I was smarter than to investigate some website that has over 30 pages of complaints about their business. Who's laughing now?"

It is true that there are legititmate complaints about some Primerica offices on this website. Yours appears to be one of those. It is also true that some of the reports are exaggerated and added to by people who simply disagree with Primerica's priciples. I find it interesting though, that you worry about 30 reports on this website, when there are at least a dozen websites that report on the business practices and outstanding warrants for some of the people responsible for this website. I'm not saying those are true or false, just noticing that ANYONE can write whatever they want on the Internet, without regard to its validity or veracity. Just some food for thought.