Complaint Review: Primerica

Thursday, 3/24, two young men come into my store. One well dressed, the other not so well dressed. I'm wondering what they are selling. The well dressed one says, we're in the banking business and we're looking for mid to upper level management. My wife left her place of employement of 15 years as credit union manager 3 weeks ago and last week started looking for work. He gives me his name and number. Friday, 3/25 she goes to she him. He wants FIVE personal references. Now this is at noon. By 3 pm he had called her brother, one of the references, who has an MBA, and was asking him if he was happy with his job and could he refer FIVE people. My wife's job "interview" is scheduled for Tuesday night, 3/29 and she is encouraged to bring ME along. I've been approached by amway and quixtar in much the same way. They just use the IBO line of BS. If you have to con someone into listening to your pitch, that's not a good way to start a business relationship.

Jack,

I appreciate the time you took to respond to my post regarding the Primerica business model. I imagine that some lively forensics could emerge as a result of our differing opinions.

You seem to think that I don't believe there is a place in the free-market system for a business model such as that which Primerica offers. On the contray. I wholeheartedly concur. That doesn't mean, however, that I believe the business model is one that benefits society and the members of society.

Specifically, what exactly is the point of the Primerica product? That's my question. If, the point is for the Primerica agent to make as much money as possible misrepresenting their products and the opportunities the company offers, then I believe they do a very good job in completing their mission. The Primerica products are, in my opinion, overpriced and have a narrow focus. The term insurance is more expensive than comparable coverage offered by the competitors. The mortgage refi's that they represent carry higher interest rates than other companies and have unattractive prepayment penalties. Their simple interest and accelerated payment options are no different than those offered by most other mortgage companies these days. And, Primerica's mutual fund offerings have high adminstrative fees and front-end commissions.

Again, I ask, what is the mission of Primerica? If their mission is to benefit their sales force, then they do a good job. But, I take issue with the company, because that is not what they advertise. They say they want to "help people," but at what cost?

On the employment side, the picture is, in my opinion, just as murky. In some ways, the process of Primerica accepting just about anyone that walks through their doors as a business associate is truly the free market system to the highest extreme. But, again, I believe the mission to be not in the best interests of those it attracts. If...if...if...Primerca was upfront about the possiblities it offers (i.e. how many people actually transverse from part-time to full time, how many people actually make more than $100,000 a year AFTER EXPENSES, how many people remain as Primerica associates after 2 years? 5 years? 10 years?) If, that information was fully disclosed to potential associates, then I might feel better about the role Primerica plays in society as an "employer".

I am loathe to say that society needs to be protected from itself, but if you read the other, non-Primerica postings of this site, you will see everyday people -- your neighbor, your barber, your's child's teacher -- duped by the "well meaning" opportunities that offer unlimited income such as this. And I wonder, just where does the Primerica model fit within that paradigm?

And, all this long-winded observation brings me back to my original post...I posted some mathematics that represented the inherent flawed nature of the Primerica model. Again, I ask -- how does the solidity of the Primerca model fit into those mathematical models?

The theory of capitalism and free enterprise really is not the discusion here although it is interesting. Does PFS fit into the free enterprise system? Absolutely. Does PFS offer an opportunity? Absolutely. Does PFS misrepresent its opportunity? This is the question many people ask and is a major topic here. Is the advice that PFS gives sound? In part. Is the PFS philosophy and strategy complete? Absolutely not. Are PFS reps competent and knowledgeable financial professionals? I don't think so.

As a former PFS rep who went independent, I can tell you that the basic Buy term and invest strategy is a good place to start, but it is in no way a complete financial strategy. I had a hard time telling my clients that a term policy and a Roth IRA was all they needed to retire wealthy.

I can understand why many people gravitate to PFS. They do everything they can to make you feel good, but that is not going to make you a financial professional. I joined PFS and fully expected to receive some sort of financial education. I got this: Term insurance is good evreything else is bad and all other insurance agents are crooks. Now go recruit someone.

If you want to go into the financial services industry, don't you owe it to yourself, your clients and agents you train to be the absolute best financial professional possible? That's how I felt and the only way I know how to do that is through education and study. A financial services company that actively discourages reading books on financial planning and earning advanced designations is not one I would trust my money to, and I could not ask my clients for their trust if I did not believe that I was doing the best I could as a financial professional. It's pretty naieve to assume that someone can't study to be a good professional and build a business simultaneously. People do it all the time. I "jumped on board " to learn the financial services business, but PFS does not teach that.The fact is at PFS you are not trained to be a financial professional, you are trained to be a recruiter. If the company was just up front about that, there would not be as many complaints.

I guess its all with what you can live with. Did I want more income and a better lifestyle? Yes, but I didn't want to attain it by giving advice and recommending strategies that I learned through my studies are incomplete and will probably end up costing people money in the long run. Absolutely not. I learned there are better business models and strategies than PFS (maybe that's why they are so anti-education). So if you want to be a financial professional and a truly knowledgeable resource for your clients, it is possible and you can build a business with all the possibilities of high level income that PFS promises, you just have to do your reaearch and decide what you can live with.

Tell me what incomplete facts and out right lies I have posted. Many people come to sites like this to research a company before getting involved with it. If you have to weed through the name calling and ignorance to find a person who answered your questions, it's worth it. Especially when PFS won't or can't answer them.

Hi Lynn,

The same concerns that you mention apply to any business in the market, just in different ways. Henry Ford had a mission for every American to own an automobile (built by Ford). Did he fail? I don't think anyone thinking out of the box would say so. He was a big thinker and accomplished big things. Did he really expect there to be no competition? Did he fold when they came? Did they have challenges to overcome? These questions are still ever present.

I certainly understand what you are saying, and if one where to make assumptions about any given business, an argument could be made that the business model is flawed. But then there is reality and the real market. One could say that Ford's vision was flawed by viewing population in a fixed manor and stating that Ford would saturate the market and then fold and create financial havoc on the economy.

Capitalism itself was said it would fail for many such reasons. Every year since the twenties and before, naysayer's about the investment markets have said why it was not a goodtime to invest. A professor from Harvard stated in 1929 that the markets had reached a permanently high plateau. History has proved them wrong. At minimum, since 1935, the market has produced positive returns over every ten-year period. Why were these naysayers wrong? Because they did not understand the markets and held incorrect assumptions. Those that acted upon that information deprived themselves of a lot of wealth. I hope that one can infer the message here.

These days, I have heard a lot of people talk bad about investing and proclaim losses of wealth due to the markets. In every case, the facts have been that they did not know what they were doing and created the loss themselves and blamed the market. Even if they were working with someone, when asked if they acted against the advice of their planner, the answer has been yes. They do not always directly admit that, but conversations reveal it. How many people really have been ripped of by this company, verses other facts or explanations?

It is about understanding one simple thing. It's there for the taking for those that want it. Is it easy? What business is? Some one working just part time to earn extra income, say $500 a month can change their future by doing the right things with that money. People that only see $500 as $500 do not appreciate the time value of money and could be helped by this company. I would not expect if one wants a six-figure income that they would do it on their own. A similar corporate pay would require a staff. Can it be done alone? I suppose it's the exception.

How many companies open six-figure income potential to anyone? Actually, all which have them available. It is up to whom ever wants them to do what is necessary to get them. How many people complain about not being compensated enough and compare their pay to higher-level executives and feel that the differential is unfair? How many of those complaining do anything about it? How many feel that college is too expensive and that there are no guarantees that it will payoff? It is all in the attitude of the individual.

Attitudes are largely shaped by association. Associating with successful people increases the odds of becoming successful because it influences thinking, and ultimately actions. The more one associates with people that have benefited from college, the more belief they have to take that step. If one where to hang around people that have been to college, but not benefited and spout college doesn't work, one is likely to believe that they should not go to college. If seeking answers, be careful about taking no action based upon negative responsesyou may be worse off than giving something a shot and getting out of it what you can. Asking what if? looking forward is much better than looking backwards. Worst case, learn things that can be used forever and make extra money. Advantages and drawbacks exist in all options that we consider in our lives. Getting a license and being able to help people according to your own schedule has awesome advantages verses working according to some body else's schedule.

Primerica is obviously just different. Flawed? Every bit as much as capitalism itself, but both have been around a while. Any businesses' growth is obtained by increasing distribution. This can be done through a smaller sales force and spending millions on corporate advertising. Alternatively, a company can spend that money on its sales force and create word-of-mouth advertising, which studies have shown to be far more effective. Those willing to do that will recruit and be more successful.

I read that someone was discouraged from getting the CFP designation. I would read the message as this: it is taking time from building your business and earning income; we may not always agree with the advice of a mentor, but it begs the question, do they have results that I want and is the advise aimed toward my goals of achieving their results? If you learn through the business, is getting a CFP required? Personally, I value education too. However, if I jumped on board to do something, I am apt to listen to what's going to get me my results that I jumped on board to get. I would not expect a corporation that hired me to encourage me to take away from company time to pursue another degree. It is all in the attitude and if one is looking for reasons to do something, they will keep a positive attitude. If they are seeking a reason not to, or have a negative attitude to start, they will look at things from that mindset.

I do not give this site much credibility, but I guess I got a little sucked into the debates myself. I have read from people who have formed opinions based upon negative attitudes and what appears to be competitors taking pop shots with incomplete facts or flat out lies, and so on. I don't care whom the company is, its like walking down an alley and seeing someone getting mugged. It doesn't matter who the person is, they are being wronged and I felt strongly about piping in for those seeking facts and intelligible views upon which to make a decision. No one has been ripped off that I have seen. The company is selling opportunity for agents and clients, and some are just not the right candidates. To them, move on!

In business, technical data must be augmented into the business world or reality. Can one make a living without recruiting in Primerica? I don't know, and frankly, I don't care. To me, the readings have been humorous and many transparent about those people. I'll leave that at that.

Best wishes and regards to all,

Jack,
I and I think most people would agree with you that our free enterprise sysytem is the best way to do business. But part of the free enterprise system is competition. A business must evolve or die.

A company's mission statement does not always reflect the reality of working for the company. I have experience as a PFS rep and as an independent agent and I can tell you that I can do much more for my clients as in independent agent than I could as a PFS rep.

There is nothing wrong with the PFS mission statement, but the in the long run, the PFS philosophy will cost their clients more because their plan in a rigid one size fits all program that does not allow flexibility. And couple this with the fact that PFS sells some of the most expensive financial products on the market, you start to wonder how they are helping the average person.

The term v. whole life argument is a good subject. The real answer to "Should I buy term or cash value?" is "It depends". There are times when term is not the best choice just as there are times when any other type of life insurance is not the best choice. It is up to a financial professional to know this and to be able to guide clients properly.

Life insurance was not designed to be a tax shelter persay, but the tax advantaged status of the money in a life insurance policy can be used to your advantage. Life insurance is designed as a wealth transfer tool. Life insurance and trusts together are one of the best wealth transfer strategies since you can eliminate most, if not all estate taxes. The cost of the insuance in any life policy is about the same. The increasing cost of a term policy mirrors the insurance costs in any WL or UL policy. And good a good Indexed UL policy will have the option of paying the cash value and the death benefit.

You have a degree in finance, but you don't seem to be a versed in how life insurance works. For example, you don't have to cash out a policy to access the money built up in a policy. I'll used Equity Indexed UL as an example. In EIUL, you have the option of paying varying levels of premium. You can actually pay more than the cost of insurance so that more money can be used in the cash account. AN EIUL can have its account performance linked to the S&P 500 so you can participate in market growth, usually up to some cap of around 18%. But you also have a guaranteed minimum return of 2-7% depending on the policy so you are not exposed to market down turns. Tha amount of premium you can pay and still maintain the status of a life insurance policy is regulated by the IRS. As long as you stay within the guidelines you will have no tax problems. Because of these guidelines, you see that in a maximum funded EIUL, even at conservative returns of 7-8%, the death benefit actually increases over time to maintain the guidelines. You can access the cash in an EIUL tax free through a policy loan. Many policies offer a zero wash loan where the interest charged is the same as the minimum interest earned and you never have to pay back the loan, the principle is simply deducted from the death benefit when you die and the remainder is passed on tax free to your heirs.

This is a short course, so i can't get into all the ins and outs of financial strategy, but suffice it to say that there are many tools available that are designed to do specific things. If a financial professional does not know these tools and how and when to use them, he is not helping his clients.

As for the business model of PFS, it has its flaws as well. I don't agree with some that say the recruiting saturation is the biggest even though it is one of the flaws. The PFS business model is basic ntework marketing. I think that NM or some variations of it can be a viable business model, but PFS is a cross between a captive agency and NM.

Since recruiting drives NM, PFS is driven by recruiting. More emphasis is given to training reps how to recruit than to training reps to be good financial professionals. In fact PFS actually discourages financial education. So its not the recruiting aspect, but rather the focus on recruiting to the detriment of other important areas of the financial services industry that is in my opinion a major flaw.

As you get to know the PFS business model, you see that you really never own your business. Your clients and sales team actually belong to the company. You may qualify for what PFS call ownership at around the Senior V.P. level, but you cannot leave and take your business with you at any level. You can only sell your business with home office approval to another PFS person. There really is no freedom of ownership here. We can get into replacement and other issues later.

Now because I am an independent agent does not mean that I cannot recruit other agents and earn overrides on business. I have found that you can do all the things PFS does, with superior products that allow more flexibility and are a better value for the consumer. I can build a business in this manner and earn overrides and residual income for life and actually own my entire business. So PFS may have been the first evolution of this type of business, but it has not evolved enough to compete in the market. Feel free to e-mail me at cullen@summitteam.org.

Jack,

I have no quibble with Primerica's stated purpose, but I do not believe that Primerica tells a balanced story -- to either its prospective customers or its prospective recruits.

My own experiences with Primerca agents is moot - I am more concerned about the generally flawed nature of the entire business model that Primerica promotes.

Primeria agents get ahead by recruiting. Jack, if you are one of those front=line agents that have been able to make a living without recruiting, those of us who read this forum would be most interested in hearing specifics. We have asked this question over and over -- can a front-line agent make a decent living through Primerica without recruiting, however no Primerca agent has yet answered with specifics. So, I hope you can understand that those of us here are skeptical given that we have never received a solid answer.

It is my understanding that in order to succeed in Primerica, a representative should recruit a minimum of six individuals to work for them. That's where the entire model breaks down. You're from Michigan -- I'm from Michigan. According to the US Census Bureau, Michigan's population in 2000 was approximately 10 million. If every Primerica agent has a goal to recuit six individuals beneath them, it only takes 10 revolutions for the model to max itself out where everyone in Michigan is a Primerica agent. Do the math yourself -- it's nothing beyond beginning to intermediate algebra -- i.e. (1 times 6 to the 0 power) + (1 times 6 to the 1st power) + (1 times 6 to the 2nd power) + (1 times 6 to the 3rd power) and so on. After 10 iterations, there would be more Primerica agents in Michigan than residents. This is the largest flaw in the Primerica model.

How many times has it been posted on this site that an individual received a call about management opportunities within Primerca because the company was opening "50 offices in the area?" (this is the number a Primerica representative gave me when I asked about the company). If indeed 50 offices were opened in an area, and each office was only staffed with 3 levels of representation, that would still account for a total of 2150 Primerica representatives in a given area (1 times 6 to the 0 power + 1 times 6 to the 1st power + 1 times 6 to the 2nd power all multiplied by those 50 offices that are supposedly being opened). Now short of Detroit, I simply don't know of any area in Michigan that can support that kind of saturation. Yet Primerica agents in Kalamazoo are giving this exact spiel to those they recruit. Kalamazoo in 2000 had a population of approximately 77,000. In the above model 2150 agents would serve 77,000 people, or approximately 35 customers per agent. This model assumes everyone in Kalamazoo would go with the Primerica program, which is, of course, unrealistic. But even if the entire population of Kalamazoo jumped on the Primerica bandwagon, I hardly doubt that 35 customers could sustain a viable income for a Primerica agent.

Just my thoughts,

I was curious to see my suggestion and if any comment was made. I was surprised that in such a short time so much was said. I wanted to add my comments. Again, drawing from my education (Masters in Finance with a Concentration in Corporate Finance), I have studied different forms of government and how people earn a living under various forms of them, and about businesses.

Countries based upon capitalism have created more wealth for their citizens (are wealthier nations), and, significantly, allow them to own capital vs. the government or sanctioned parties/organizations. Why? Wealth: people will do the required work for themselves verses someone else. Let's take a moment and appreciate our country and those protecting it.

Capitalist/business owners are about opportunity/creating success, seeing a market opportunity and seeking to capitalize (make money) on it. Business is a competitive thing, and not easy. It is apparent that Primerica's mission is to combat the financial illiteracy imbedded in our culture. I would not expect it to be easy, just worth it. I graduated with honors in college and despite my technical expertise, soon found that in the working world it was a challenge getting points across to executives or peers that did not understand finance. Especially when the organizational structure is more like a martini glass than a pyramid, which is why the biggest things for a publicly traded company are financial transparency and a management that has the shareholders wealth as priority verses personal protectionism, and such.

I see what Primerica's mission is and understand the points that I have read. Simply, if a consumer is going through life with debt and an inadequate savings plan, worse add a family and no insurance to fill gaps in assets, show them a plan to get out of debt quicker and fill the other needs, it's a no-brainer. Talk about other mortgage companies and costsplease. Then why do they stick someone in a mortgage for 30 years? Because they are selling a financial product and not full-service financial freedom. If thinking big-picture, look at the value of full-service. Return is more important than cost and as I learned in economics, there's no such thing as a free lunch. Cash valueplease, there are better tax-sheltered or deferred investments for highnetworth people. Cash value just creates a perminate insurance load. Not to mention that most policies don't pay your family the cash value if you dieit's only if you live and cash outand even in policies that do, the extra costs are coming at the exspense of investment money.

I think that it is very ingenuitive that a company set up a system that allows someone that is hungry to build a business and fight this fight. The principles of finance are simple, and when a system has been solidly built by experts and allows for quick distribution, it's quite impressive that the company make recognition of the fact that the person who wants it most is the best candidate.

Many successful businesses were started by men that had a vision and no education (college or even high school, or dropped out). We've all heard those stories. It is not always about education but drive, the willingness to learn and do what's necessary.

Our society conditions people to become employees. My father was a doctor and always stressed education, but he worked for himself and never pushed working for anyone else, although I have most of my working years, so understand both sides very well. Employees are of a different mindset, and not that it is a wrong or bad one, but is different from self-employed or capitalists. A capitalist seeks to gain wealth by building a business. An employee asks how much can I get for my skills from a business. Would you rather have the wealth to pay employees big bucks, or be one to receive those bucks? The answer probably lie in how hard one is willing to work and risk tolerence. The risks of a capitalist are much greater and may suffer multiple failures before success, but, the rewards of a successful capitalist are far greater. Ask a capitalist if he is interested in an opportunity to make money, and he would perhaps be disappointed to find he was being offered a job. He just wasn't the right market for the position. Would he create a rip-off web site over it? Sure, if there was potential money in it.

Since Paul has made it his business to slither his way onto MY thread, I'm going to be particulary nasty to him over here without any name calling.

I want to contrast Paul with Drew F. Even though
Drew is also a Primerican, he talks to you respectfully even though we may disagree. Paul,
however, is a different kettle of fish and I'm going to fry him over here.

First, Paul, which part of the following paragraph don't you understand?

"Victim of a consumer Rip-off? Want justice? Rip-off Report is a worldwide consumer reporting Website & Publication, by consumers, for consumers, to file & document complaints about companies or individuals who ripoff consumers."

How are you helping the victims Paul besides spouting how "good" it is to be working for Primerica? What are you doing at Primerica internally to help straighten out the mess there?
Are you going to give your copout advice and tell
the victims to call corporate Primerica and
report their problems? If you want to say nice
things about Primerica Paul, you have plenty of
rah-rah meetings you can go to and you can hear all of the nice fairy tales at these meetings too.

Now wouldn't that be nice Paul instead of slithering your way onto this website and hearing
all the bad things people are saying about Primerica? (Primerica must be desperate sending
their trolls to this website).

I quote my earlier post:

"Primerica is directly opposed to this as they're openly hostile towards banks and the lending system saying why you shouldn't do business with banks (in the meantime attacking Citibank which is one of their affiliates) which is actually helping to destroy the American economic system."

The only way to create money (and I don't count
counterfeit money) is through borrowing and lending and it takes money to create jobs and
businesses. This is one of the basic flaws with
Primerica.

Here's another basic flaw with Primerica. I quote
myself again:

"As Drew F admitted everyone is welcomed to work at Primerica. But, as Drew F. also admitted, if everyone were to work at Primerica, then there'd be nobody left to sell to."

Let me expand upon that. Way before you reach the hypothetical situation of all adults belonging to Primerica, you'll always have a certain percentage of the population that will never be interested in what Primerica is offering. And as the job market keeps improving, there'll be less opportunity to recruit which you must do to make those "six-figured" incomes (which is practically impossible as the odds are astronomically high against this).

Paul is making some mistakes with a particular quote on me. First the quote:

"who is having their problems in court being charged with predatory lending." Then Paul follows up his commentary:

"This is a total and complete lie. But that never stopped Stuart from posting any old crap he finds on unvetted sites. I investigated the court case incorrectly reported by Stuart. I found the truth on the fed's web site. Never once in the indictment was CitiGroup mentioned as the plaintiff. What Stuart deceitfully reported came from a slanted editorial and did not contain all the facts. But the facts have never, ever stopped Stuart from posting lies. For those who are interested, CitiGroup bought a Southern Bank that did this predatory lending. CitiGroup cleaned-up the bank's policies (but Stuart won't tell you that!). And as any one in the legal profession will verify, the legal successor, CitiGroup has to clean-up the legal mess also. Stuart listen for once! As a Successor Stuart; not as the plaintiff. What an idiot you are!" (I like your name calling
Paul).

Paul, first you shouldn't be complaining to me,
rather to the website owners who've put up those
websites. The first website that I quoted (and I'll requote now) is the following:

http://www.innercitypress.org/citi.html

"There's a problem, however. Citigroup has been charged with predatory lending to the poor, not only by consumer advocates, but by the Federal Reserve Board, the Federal Trade Commission, and other governmental agencies. Citigroup's seeming capture of microcredit as-industry does not bode well."

The next two websites (with my requoting of the
second) are the following:

http://www.disclosure-us.org/disc-april2001/sharks-ftc-calls-citigroup.htm

http://multinationalmonitor.org/mm2002/02april/april02corp2.html

"Citigroup has tried desperately to deflect the legal and public relations problems by suggesting that all the really bad practices had been the work of Associates First Capital before it became a member of the Citi family. The corporation feigned shock and dismay that such practices had been going on and urged the Federal District Court in Atlanta to dismiss Citigroup and its consumer finance unit, CitiFinance, from the FTC lawsuit.

Instead of extricating Citigroup and its affiliates from the lawsuit, the dismissal motion dug the hole deeper for the corporation. FTC produced affidavits from a former employee charging that the corporation's consumer lending affiliate CitiFinancial had engaged in unethical lending practices long before Associates First Capital had been acquired. The court refused to sever Citigroup and its consumer credit affiliate, CitiFinancial from the suit.

According to the FTC complaint, the Associates charged its customers prices that were substantially higher than those available to borrowers in the prime market. The FTC said Associates charged as many as eight points on mortgage loans each point equaling 1 percent the amount financed on top of inflated fees."

Paul is trying to deceive us that the predatory
lending is limited to a subsidiary that Citigroup
picked up but, of course, Paul is a Primerican so
what would you expect him to say? (you can find
more websites by typing "Citigroup - predatory
lending into your Google or Yahoo"). So Paul where's the "complete lie?"

Another Paul quote:

"Stuart loves to equate us to Enron, WorldCom and any other failed institution as if that means that we are about to fail also. Let's see if I can extend his irrationality to himself. I guess we should watch out for Stuart as he might shoot or kill us because he is a man just like Dalmer or Peterson or Nichols. See how stupid Stuart's extrapolations are? We are regulated by all 50 states, the feds, the SEC, the NASD and others. Enron had AA and they are out of business now. There is no equivalence."

I equate Primerica with those failed institutions
as they're deceptive and lied along with having
their other problems. In fact the same can be said
about you with your self-serving Primerican cronies.

Another assinine remark by Paul. I quote:

"Stuart Posts:
On top of that all Primerica is to Citigroup is just an investment as Citigroup won't guarantee what Primerica sells.

I answer:
This particular line shows how really (I'm running out of synonyms for stupid) Stuart is. All business divisions that are bought by corporations are investments. Are you really that dumb to think that CitiGroup buys companies to lose money? Your positions are laughable. And again you lie. All our products are guaranteed."

Paul I take it to mean that Citigroup guarantees
Primerica's products. I'm going to quote from the
following Primerica website, http://ww4.primerica.com/public/primerica_disclosures.html,
under the section, Subsidiary of Citigroup:

"Primerica and its affiliates are subsidiaries of Citigroup Inc. Each subsidiary of Citigroup, and not Citigroup itself, is responsible for its obligations to its customers. Insurance and securities offered through Primerica Companies are not deposits. There is no bank guarantee. They are not FDIC insured. Securities may lose value."

Clearly Citigroup is not guaranteeing Primerica's
products, the banks aren't and FDIC isn't. You are
lying again which goes in hand with your being a
Primerican (nothing against Drew).

One more quote:

"Stuart Posts:
A Primerica California agent (actually an executive) went to jail last year for ripping off a senior citizen and her daughter.

I answer:
Again you lie. The person who is named is an independent agent and NOT an executive. And what you conveniently leave out of the story is that as soon as Compliance learned of the transgression, Primerica fully paid back the client BEFORE any legal judgment was rendered. What is the moral? The company did the right thing. As soon as Primerica learned that an agent broke the rules, it did the ethical thing long before the legal system forced that restitution. But Stuart would have you believe that we are infested with corrupt and devious individuals. The only thing I think is infested is Stuart's apartment."

That agent, Paul, was a RVP (regional vice-president) which means he was an executive at
Primerica. Again you're the one that's lying (it's
interesting that you used one of your favorite tactics in trying to delete out a part of my post
to try to deceive).

I post this for the benefit of those who aren't
acquainted with Primerican Paul to set the record
straight. It's odd that a Primerica agent runs
over to Ripoff Report in his desperate manner
thinking he's saving Primerica (he doesn't care
about the victims of Primerica). I also find it
laughable that Paul says he won't post anymore
like where did I hear that one before because if
he isn't then Primerica will send over another
stooge that will.

Next one puppetmaster.

I've been reading these juvenile quarrels for a while now and I don't think either side has proven their points very well.

As Always, I'll say up front that I was a PFS rep so I think I know the company, its practices and policies as well as anyone. With that in mind, I'll try to address some of the issues here.

PFS is a network marketing company. To call it anything else in incorrect. Network marketing is driven by recruiting therefore PFS is driven by recruiting. You only have to be around for a short time to realize that more emphasis is placed on recruiting than any other aspect of the business.

Much of the hooplah here stems from what people see as deceptive recruiting practices. I think that PFS should be more honest in their recruiting scripts. For example instead of saying:

"I am calling on behalf of an international subsidiary of Citigroup. We are looking to fill management positions in your area and your name came across my desk as someone who might have what we are looking for..."

That may not be dishonest but it is deceptive.
Why not just say:

"I represent Primerica and we are looking for people who want an opportunity to ..."

Isn't this the honest way to recruit. Those deceptive scripts are still being used. I got that line just the other day from someone. And this practice was one of the reasons I was not comfortable at PFS.

Citigroup owns PFS, but PFS is responsible for its own obligations. Citigroup does not guarantee PFS's products or anything else. PFS did not buy Travelers. PFS was part of Travelers and when Citi and Travelers merged, PFS went along for the ride. There is some speculation that Citigroup is getting out of the insurance business all together and it will be interesting to see what happens to PFS if Citi continues its trend of selling off its insurance companies.

I have issue with a financial services company that discourages reps from pursuing education in finance. I was told not to pursue a CFP or any other advanced training in finance and to concentrate on recruiting instead. Most other financial services companies encourage education. PFS may have the largset sale force, but they are the least trained sales force. PFS is continuing with this dumbing down of the industry by petitioning for a term only license so that its reps will know even less about the insurance business. This cannot be good for the industry or its consumers.

The pros and cons of the business model are another issue. I have asked for a PFS rep to start a thread on that, but alas no takers.

I'll just say that the business model is not all they say it is and it has its downsides as well.


Now PFS reps are going to say that I am an enemy agent and I have an axe to grind etc. Not true. For one thing, since I went independent, I learned that PFS really can't compete with what I can do now. The products I sell are superior and cost less. I have access to more products so that I can find what is truly the best mix of products for my clients. The financial industry has been around a lot longer than PFS and will be around long after PFS is gone. That is not to say PFS did not have some impact. Actually Art Williams should be given credit for helping to change the industry. Because of him, more agents not involved in PFS sell term first. But there are times when term is not the best choice for someone and to deny that is naieve.

People's financial future deserve more than a one size fits all approach. That is the major flaw in the PFS philosophy. Options are the key to any good plan and the PFS plan does not have the fkexibility to offer those options. Worst of all, PFS reps don't know what those options are.

It is always a pleasure to hear from Stuart (NOT).

I also read Jack's posting and found it to be intelligent. (If you think that I am implying that Stuart's is stupid, you are right!)

First, let me introduce Stuart to the new people on this site or to this thread. Stuart is the most prolific poster having posts on almost every thread. And, after his statements have been debunked and shown to be fraudulent, he simply starts new posts as he did here. The purpose of RipoffReports is for a consumer to post a grievance. But Stuart never states what happen to him; never states how he was hurt; never states anything about why posts here. I believe that he is a rival agent who is miss-using RipoffReports to denigrate Primerica unjustly, that is, a competitor using RipoffReports to falsely spew negatives about the competition.

So, once again, allow me to show how completely wrong, disingenuous and a liar that Stuart is. And I apologize upfront to all (except Stuart) for the very harsh tone I will take with Stuart.




Stuart Posts:
(1) It (I guess Primerica) helps destroy the banking system:

I answer:
The stupidity of this is beyond belief (but not for Stuart). The points made are so ludicrous as to be nonsensical. But allow me to state that Primerica is dedicated to removing the cancer of debt that pledges our society. Stuart believes that is good, meaning you should be sick and die penniless (figuratively) from your debt. He completely ignores that bankruptcies are at an all time high. He ignores that thousands upon thousands of baby-boomers are going into retirement in debt. It is better to ignore Stuart.


Stuart Posts:
(2) everyone is welcomed to work at Primerica. But, if everyone were to work at Primerica, then there'd be nobody left to sell to.

I answer:
As usual, Stuart takes a positive and positions it as a negative. He is very clever(?) in doing this but is really very deceptive in his postings. We have every walk of life, every nationality, every religion, every skin color, and every education level, etc., etc. I guess Stuart is against diversity. I guess most of us don't fit into Stuart's perfect world. We would all be better if Stuart is not in ours.


Stuart Posts:
Here are additional problems with Primerica.

I answer:
Stuart loves throwing his opinions into his postings as if they are fact. The truth is, as I explained, the above are NOT problems. But you have to get used to this type of subterfuge from Stuart.


Stuart Posts:
(3) It's a pyramid-schemed company

I answer:
Come on Stuart; are you so dumb that you can't learn? I've explained this to you several times. All hierarchical structures are pyramidal in shape. Therefore all corporations are pyramids. What you disingenuously are implying (something you do all the time) is that we are a Ponzi scheme. Ponzi schemes are illegal. We are not a Ponzi scheme no matter how many times you falsely imply it.


Stuart Posts:
meaning that only the fat cats at the top get to make the real money

I answer:
Stuart has stated this in different ways on different threads. On one thread he asks for proof that front-line agents make the big bucks, that is, over $100,000. Of course this is a trick question. Let me rephrase it; do the clerks at WalMart made the big bucks or just the WalMart family? Or, do the assemble line people make the big bucks, or just the top executives at GM. Do you make the big bucks at your job or do the top executives? See how stupid and ludicrous Stuart's positions are?


Stuart Posts:
(numerous requests for documentation to this website disproving what I say have fallen on deaf Primerica ears).

I answer:
This is a complete lie. I have answered Stuart's junk time and time again. And then he just goes and posts more untruths on a new thread.


Stuart Posts:
(4) Instead of coming over here to help out the victims of Primerica, you have trolls and shills from Primerica (their agents) coming by to either tell us how wonderful Primerica allegedly is or to tell the victims to contact corporate Primerica which is a copout.

I answer:
A little history is necessary here. Stuart has been complaining that we simply come on the site and (in his words) tell how wonderful Primerica is (as if that was a lie). So I noted for anyone who has a problem to contact our compliance department. Compliance investigates any wrong doing by any agent in Primerica. If validated, that agent loses his or her ability to be a member of the Primerica family (in corporate terms, they get fired). Stuart, in his deranged mind, thinks that is a copout. Does anyone think that posting here gets rid of the bad apple? Of course not! I posted the true solution. So I wonder what Stuart would rather have us do.


Stuart Posts:
(5) Primericans keep referring to being part of the big Citigroup (remember Enron?)

I answer:
Stuart loves to equate us to Enron, WorldCom and any other failed institution as if that means that we are about to fail also. Let's see if I can extend his irrationality to himself. I guess we should watch out for Stuart as he might shoot or kill us because he is a man just like Dalmer or Peterson or Nichols. See how stupid Stuart's extrapolations are? We are regulated by all 50 states, the feds, the SEC, the NASD and others. Enron had AA and they are out of business now. There is no equivalence.


Stuart Posts:
who is having their problems in court being charged with predatory lending.

I answer:
This is a total and complete lie. But that never stopped Stuart from posting any old crap he finds on unvetted sites. I investigated the court case incorrectly reported by Stuart. I found the truth on the fed's web site. Never once in the indictment was CitiGroup mentioned as the plaintiff. What Stuart deceitfully reported came from a slanted editorial and did not contain all the facts. But the facts have never, ever stopped Stuart from posting lies. For those who are interested, CitiGroup bought a Southern Bank that did this predatory lending. CitiGroup cleaned-up the bank's policies (but Stuart won't tell you that!). And as any one in the legal profession will verify, the legal successor, CitiGroup has to clean-up the legal mess also. Stuart listen for once! As a Successor Stuart; not as the plaintiff. What an idiot you are!


Stuart Posts:
On top of that all Primerica is to Citigroup is just an investment as Citigroup won't guarantee what Primerica sells.

I answer:
This particular line shows how really (I'm running out of synonyms for stupid) Stuart is. All business divisions that are bought by corporations are investments. Are you really that dumb to think that CitiGroup buys companies to lose money? Your positions are laughable. And again you lie. All our products are guaranteed.


Stuart Posts:
So what is Primerica without Citigroup?

I answer:
For the uneducated such as Stuart, WE bought Traveler's. So I guess we were nothing back then. The merger with CitiGroup helps both us and CitiGroup. For example, CitiGroup gained a powerful marketing arm; we gain by having more products to sell. And it is very successful. We sell more Smith Barney then Smith Barney sells! So, again and again, your innuendos are baseless.


Stuart Posts:
(6) Fraud and deception is rampant throughout Primerica i.e. at the executive level.

I answer:
Outside of this web site, that statement would have you in court. But as you hide behind this web site, and because RipoffReports does not care if what you post is truthful or an out-and-out lie, there is nothing we can do to you. So that simply encourages you to lie more and more.


Stuart Posts:
A Primerica California agent (actually an executive) went to jail last year for ripping off a senior citizen and her daughter.

I answer:
Again you lie. The person who is named is an independent agent and NOT an executive. And what you conveniently leave out of the story is that as soon as Compliance learned of the transgression, Primerica fully paid back the client BEFORE any legal judgment was rendered. What is the moral? The company did the right thing. As soon as Primerica learned that an agent broke the rules, it did the ethical thing long before the legal system forced that restitution. But Stuart would have you believe that we are infested with corrupt and devious individuals. The only thing I think is infested is Stuart's apartment.


Stuart Posts:
(7) In conjunction with no. 6, there are numerous reports on this website alone reporting how Primerica misrepresents positions it offers as being salaried.

I answer:
I have invited many people down to our Money and Business Seminar. I am always VERY careful to NEVER state salary, job, or position. Yet I am always amazed by the number of people, who after attending the seminar, are upset that it wasn't a salaried job!!! I can only surmise that people hear and think according to their preconditioning in the corporate life style: get educated, get a job, and make a salary. They are looking for a job. As for numerous, check out other venues besides this one. In your search-engine type in Pepsi Sucks and see how many hits you get (376,000). Try AT&T Sucks (160,000). Try Gap Sucks (613,000). Now try Primerica Sucks. Only 618. Not 618,000. 618!!! Guess we can't be all that bad!!

So remember, one must be intelligent about what one believes. Investigate using reliable sources, not just a bulletin board (which this is) where any jerk can post any crap they want. Go to financial magazines such as Money, Forbes, AMBest etc. and check us out and our buy term and invest the difference motto.





In conclusion:
I know that Stuart will come back and call me a shill or a clown. I know that Stuart will ignore all the logics here and continue to fanatically post everywhere possible. I know that this will not stop Stuart and his delusional thinking.

It is my belief that Stuart is a competitor. I believe he sells insurance and/or mortgages. And I believe that he has and is losing business to us. So what does he do? He slithers (his word) across the internet looking for anything negative, even if it is false. Then he posts as much garbage here as possible. He answers various people on numerous threads spreading the same junk. He probably tells any client to check out Primerica on this site knowing full well he has filled it with his excrement.

So I will not post again. I now realize the fruitlessness of retorting over and over again the lies, half-truths and innuendoes posted here. I realize that those posting here who hate Primerica will continue to do so in spite of facts and logic. I realize that those who misunderstood what the opportunity was will continue to believe this is a scam. I realize that those who were approached by an agent, who bent or broke the rules, will apply that rip-off moniker to all of us. I realize that those who think are products are 2 or 3 times the going rates (not true) will continue to think that the products are rip-offs also. Those who do not understand how Primerica works will continue to lambaste it, most of the time without merit.

So if a victory for you Stuart is not having me here, then you won. The losers are those whom you infect with you crap. To all Primericans. Do not answer the garbage here. All logical retorts are ignored. The best thing is no answer. And I know that Stuart will use that silence as an affirmation of his incorrectness. So be it.

And if you answer, all you are doing is increasing the eye-ball count so that RipoffReports gets more ad money. When you post, you increase the search-engine hits and move this garbage to the front. And of course, once you have registered with RipoffReports, you start getting requests for money. Best to ignore this site.

So everyone, watch where you step, Stuart's here.
Bye.

It is always a pleasure to hear from Stuart (NOT).

I also read Jack's posting and found it to be intelligent. (If you think that I am implying that Stuart's is stupid, you are right!)

First, let me introduce Stuart to the new people on this site or to this thread. Stuart is the most prolific poster having posts on almost every thread. And, after his statements have been debunked and shown to be fraudulent, he simply starts new posts as he did here. The purpose of RipoffReports is for a consumer to post a grievance. But Stuart never states what happen to him; never states how he was hurt; never states anything about why posts here. I believe that he is a rival agent who is miss-using RipoffReports to denigrate Primerica unjustly, that is, a competitor using RipoffReports to falsely spew negatives about the competition.

So, once again, allow me to show how completely wrong, disingenuous and a liar that Stuart is. And I apologize upfront to all (except Stuart) for the very harsh tone I will take with Stuart.




Stuart Posts:
(1) It (I guess Primerica) helps destroy the banking system:

I answer:
The stupidity of this is beyond belief (but not for Stuart). The points made are so ludicrous as to be nonsensical. But allow me to state that Primerica is dedicated to removing the cancer of debt that pledges our society. Stuart believes that is good, meaning you should be sick and die penniless (figuratively) from your debt. He completely ignores that bankruptcies are at an all time high. He ignores that thousands upon thousands of baby-boomers are going into retirement in debt. It is better to ignore Stuart.


Stuart Posts:
(2) everyone is welcomed to work at Primerica. But, if everyone were to work at Primerica, then there'd be nobody left to sell to.

I answer:
As usual, Stuart takes a positive and positions it as a negative. He is very clever(?) in doing this but is really very deceptive in his postings. We have every walk of life, every nationality, every religion, every skin color, and every education level, etc., etc. I guess Stuart is against diversity. I guess most of us don't fit into Stuart's perfect world. We would all be better if Stuart is not in ours.


Stuart Posts:
Here are additional problems with Primerica.

I answer:
Stuart loves throwing his opinions into his postings as if they are fact. The truth is, as I explained, the above are NOT problems. But you have to get used to this type of subterfuge from Stuart.


Stuart Posts:
(3) It's a pyramid-schemed company

I answer:
Come on Stuart; are you so dumb that you can't learn? I've explained this to you several times. All hierarchical structures are pyramidal in shape. Therefore all corporations are pyramids. What you disingenuously are implying (something you do all the time) is that we are a Ponzi scheme. Ponzi schemes are illegal. We are not a Ponzi scheme no matter how many times you falsely imply it.


Stuart Posts:
meaning that only the fat cats at the top get to make the real money

I answer:
Stuart has stated this in different ways on different threads. On one thread he asks for proof that front-line agents make the big bucks, that is, over $100,000. Of course this is a trick question. Let me rephrase it; do the clerks at WalMart made the big bucks or just the WalMart family? Or, do the assemble line people make the big bucks, or just the top executives at GM. Do you make the big bucks at your job or do the top executives? See how stupid and ludicrous Stuart's positions are?


Stuart Posts:
(numerous requests for documentation to this website disproving what I say have fallen on deaf Primerica ears).

I answer:
This is a complete lie. I have answered Stuart's junk time and time again. And then he just goes and posts more untruths on a new thread.


Stuart Posts:
(4) Instead of coming over here to help out the victims of Primerica, you have trolls and shills from Primerica (their agents) coming by to either tell us how wonderful Primerica allegedly is or to tell the victims to contact corporate Primerica which is a copout.

I answer:
A little history is necessary here. Stuart has been complaining that we simply come on the site and (in his words) tell how wonderful Primerica is (as if that was a lie). So I noted for anyone who has a problem to contact our compliance department. Compliance investigates any wrong doing by any agent in Primerica. If validated, that agent loses his or her ability to be a member of the Primerica family (in corporate terms, they get fired). Stuart, in his deranged mind, thinks that is a copout. Does anyone think that posting here gets rid of the bad apple? Of course not! I posted the true solution. So I wonder what Stuart would rather have us do.


Stuart Posts:
(5) Primericans keep referring to being part of the big Citigroup (remember Enron?)

I answer:
Stuart loves to equate us to Enron, WorldCom and any other failed institution as if that means that we are about to fail also. Let's see if I can extend his irrationality to himself. I guess we should watch out for Stuart as he might shoot or kill us because he is a man just like Dalmer or Peterson or Nichols. See how stupid Stuart's extrapolations are? We are regulated by all 50 states, the feds, the SEC, the NASD and others. Enron had AA and they are out of business now. There is no equivalence.


Stuart Posts:
who is having their problems in court being charged with predatory lending.

I answer:
This is a total and complete lie. But that never stopped Stuart from posting any old crap he finds on unvetted sites. I investigated the court case incorrectly reported by Stuart. I found the truth on the fed's web site. Never once in the indictment was CitiGroup mentioned as the plaintiff. What Stuart deceitfully reported came from a slanted editorial and did not contain all the facts. But the facts have never, ever stopped Stuart from posting lies. For those who are interested, CitiGroup bought a Southern Bank that did this predatory lending. CitiGroup cleaned-up the bank's policies (but Stuart won't tell you that!). And as any one in the legal profession will verify, the legal successor, CitiGroup has to clean-up the legal mess also. Stuart listen for once! As a Successor Stuart; not as the plaintiff. What an idiot you are!


Stuart Posts:
On top of that all Primerica is to Citigroup is just an investment as Citigroup won't guarantee what Primerica sells.

I answer:
This particular line shows how really (I'm running out of synonyms for stupid) Stuart is. All business divisions that are bought by corporations are investments. Are you really that dumb to think that CitiGroup buys companies to lose money? Your positions are laughable. And again you lie. All our products are guaranteed.


Stuart Posts:
So what is Primerica without Citigroup?

I answer:
For the uneducated such as Stuart, WE bought Traveler's. So I guess we were nothing back then. The merger with CitiGroup helps both us and CitiGroup. For example, CitiGroup gained a powerful marketing arm; we gain by having more products to sell. And it is very successful. We sell more Smith Barney then Smith Barney sells! So, again and again, your innuendos are baseless.


Stuart Posts:
(6) Fraud and deception is rampant throughout Primerica i.e. at the executive level.

I answer:
Outside of this web site, that statement would have you in court. But as you hide behind this web site, and because RipoffReports does not care if what you post is truthful or an out-and-out lie, there is nothing we can do to you. So that simply encourages you to lie more and more.


Stuart Posts:
A Primerica California agent (actually an executive) went to jail last year for ripping off a senior citizen and her daughter.

I answer:
Again you lie. The person who is named is an independent agent and NOT an executive. And what you conveniently leave out of the story is that as soon as Compliance learned of the transgression, Primerica fully paid back the client BEFORE any legal judgment was rendered. What is the moral? The company did the right thing. As soon as Primerica learned that an agent broke the rules, it did the ethical thing long before the legal system forced that restitution. But Stuart would have you believe that we are infested with corrupt and devious individuals. The only thing I think is infested is Stuart's apartment.


Stuart Posts:
(7) In conjunction with no. 6, there are numerous reports on this website alone reporting how Primerica misrepresents positions it offers as being salaried.

I answer:
I have invited many people down to our Money and Business Seminar. I am always VERY careful to NEVER state salary, job, or position. Yet I am always amazed by the number of people, who after attending the seminar, are upset that it wasn't a salaried job!!! I can only surmise that people hear and think according to their preconditioning in the corporate life style: get educated, get a job, and make a salary. They are looking for a job. As for numerous, check out other venues besides this one. In your search-engine type in Pepsi Sucks and see how many hits you get (376,000). Try AT&T Sucks (160,000). Try Gap Sucks (613,000). Now try Primerica Sucks. Only 618. Not 618,000. 618!!! Guess we can't be all that bad!!

So remember, one must be intelligent about what one believes. Investigate using reliable sources, not just a bulletin board (which this is) where any jerk can post any crap they want. Go to financial magazines such as Money, Forbes, AMBest etc. and check us out and our buy term and invest the difference motto.





In conclusion:
I know that Stuart will come back and call me a shill or a clown. I know that Stuart will ignore all the logics here and continue to fanatically post everywhere possible. I know that this will not stop Stuart and his delusional thinking.

It is my belief that Stuart is a competitor. I believe he sells insurance and/or mortgages. And I believe that he has and is losing business to us. So what does he do? He slithers (his word) across the internet looking for anything negative, even if it is false. Then he posts as much garbage here as possible. He answers various people on numerous threads spreading the same junk. He probably tells any client to check out Primerica on this site knowing full well he has filled it with his excrement.

So I will not post again. I now realize the fruitlessness of retorting over and over again the lies, half-truths and innuendoes posted here. I realize that those posting here who hate Primerica will continue to do so in spite of facts and logic. I realize that those who misunderstood what the opportunity was will continue to believe this is a scam. I realize that those who were approached by an agent, who bent or broke the rules, will apply that rip-off moniker to all of us. I realize that those who think are products are 2 or 3 times the going rates (not true) will continue to think that the products are rip-offs also. Those who do not understand how Primerica works will continue to lambaste it, most of the time without merit.

So if a victory for you Stuart is not having me here, then you won. The losers are those whom you infect with you crap. To all Primericans. Do not answer the garbage here. All logical retorts are ignored. The best thing is no answer. And I know that Stuart will use that silence as an affirmation of his incorrectness. So be it.

And if you answer, all you are doing is increasing the eye-ball count so that RipoffReports gets more ad money. When you post, you increase the search-engine hits and move this garbage to the front. And of course, once you have registered with RipoffReports, you start getting requests for money. Best to ignore this site.

So everyone, watch where you step, Stuart's here.
Bye.

It is always a pleasure to hear from Stuart (NOT).

I also read Jack's posting and found it to be intelligent. (If you think that I am implying that Stuart's is stupid, you are right!)

First, let me introduce Stuart to the new people on this site or to this thread. Stuart is the most prolific poster having posts on almost every thread. And, after his statements have been debunked and shown to be fraudulent, he simply starts new posts as he did here. The purpose of RipoffReports is for a consumer to post a grievance. But Stuart never states what happen to him; never states how he was hurt; never states anything about why posts here. I believe that he is a rival agent who is miss-using RipoffReports to denigrate Primerica unjustly, that is, a competitor using RipoffReports to falsely spew negatives about the competition.

So, once again, allow me to show how completely wrong, disingenuous and a liar that Stuart is. And I apologize upfront to all (except Stuart) for the very harsh tone I will take with Stuart.




Stuart Posts:
(1) It (I guess Primerica) helps destroy the banking system:

I answer:
The stupidity of this is beyond belief (but not for Stuart). The points made are so ludicrous as to be nonsensical. But allow me to state that Primerica is dedicated to removing the cancer of debt that pledges our society. Stuart believes that is good, meaning you should be sick and die penniless (figuratively) from your debt. He completely ignores that bankruptcies are at an all time high. He ignores that thousands upon thousands of baby-boomers are going into retirement in debt. It is better to ignore Stuart.


Stuart Posts:
(2) everyone is welcomed to work at Primerica. But, if everyone were to work at Primerica, then there'd be nobody left to sell to.

I answer:
As usual, Stuart takes a positive and positions it as a negative. He is very clever(?) in doing this but is really very deceptive in his postings. We have every walk of life, every nationality, every religion, every skin color, and every education level, etc., etc. I guess Stuart is against diversity. I guess most of us don't fit into Stuart's perfect world. We would all be better if Stuart is not in ours.


Stuart Posts:
Here are additional problems with Primerica.

I answer:
Stuart loves throwing his opinions into his postings as if they are fact. The truth is, as I explained, the above are NOT problems. But you have to get used to this type of subterfuge from Stuart.


Stuart Posts:
(3) It's a pyramid-schemed company

I answer:
Come on Stuart; are you so dumb that you can't learn? I've explained this to you several times. All hierarchical structures are pyramidal in shape. Therefore all corporations are pyramids. What you disingenuously are implying (something you do all the time) is that we are a Ponzi scheme. Ponzi schemes are illegal. We are not a Ponzi scheme no matter how many times you falsely imply it.


Stuart Posts:
meaning that only the fat cats at the top get to make the real money

I answer:
Stuart has stated this in different ways on different threads. On one thread he asks for proof that front-line agents make the big bucks, that is, over $100,000. Of course this is a trick question. Let me rephrase it; do the clerks at WalMart made the big bucks or just the WalMart family? Or, do the assemble line people make the big bucks, or just the top executives at GM. Do you make the big bucks at your job or do the top executives? See how stupid and ludicrous Stuart's positions are?


Stuart Posts:
(numerous requests for documentation to this website disproving what I say have fallen on deaf Primerica ears).

I answer:
This is a complete lie. I have answered Stuart's junk time and time again. And then he just goes and posts more untruths on a new thread.


Stuart Posts:
(4) Instead of coming over here to help out the victims of Primerica, you have trolls and shills from Primerica (their agents) coming by to either tell us how wonderful Primerica allegedly is or to tell the victims to contact corporate Primerica which is a copout.

I answer:
A little history is necessary here. Stuart has been complaining that we simply come on the site and (in his words) tell how wonderful Primerica is (as if that was a lie). So I noted for anyone who has a problem to contact our compliance department. Compliance investigates any wrong doing by any agent in Primerica. If validated, that agent loses his or her ability to be a member of the Primerica family (in corporate terms, they get fired). Stuart, in his deranged mind, thinks that is a copout. Does anyone think that posting here gets rid of the bad apple? Of course not! I posted the true solution. So I wonder what Stuart would rather have us do.


Stuart Posts:
(5) Primericans keep referring to being part of the big Citigroup (remember Enron?)

I answer:
Stuart loves to equate us to Enron, WorldCom and any other failed institution as if that means that we are about to fail also. Let's see if I can extend his irrationality to himself. I guess we should watch out for Stuart as he might shoot or kill us because he is a man just like Dalmer or Peterson or Nichols. See how stupid Stuart's extrapolations are? We are regulated by all 50 states, the feds, the SEC, the NASD and others. Enron had AA and they are out of business now. There is no equivalence.


Stuart Posts:
who is having their problems in court being charged with predatory lending.

I answer:
This is a total and complete lie. But that never stopped Stuart from posting any old crap he finds on unvetted sites. I investigated the court case incorrectly reported by Stuart. I found the truth on the fed's web site. Never once in the indictment was CitiGroup mentioned as the plaintiff. What Stuart deceitfully reported came from a slanted editorial and did not contain all the facts. But the facts have never, ever stopped Stuart from posting lies. For those who are interested, CitiGroup bought a Southern Bank that did this predatory lending. CitiGroup cleaned-up the bank's policies (but Stuart won't tell you that!). And as any one in the legal profession will verify, the legal successor, CitiGroup has to clean-up the legal mess also. Stuart listen for once! As a Successor Stuart; not as the plaintiff. What an idiot you are!


Stuart Posts:
On top of that all Primerica is to Citigroup is just an investment as Citigroup won't guarantee what Primerica sells.

I answer:
This particular line shows how really (I'm running out of synonyms for stupid) Stuart is. All business divisions that are bought by corporations are investments. Are you really that dumb to think that CitiGroup buys companies to lose money? Your positions are laughable. And again you lie. All our products are guaranteed.


Stuart Posts:
So what is Primerica without Citigroup?

I answer:
For the uneducated such as Stuart, WE bought Traveler's. So I guess we were nothing back then. The merger with CitiGroup helps both us and CitiGroup. For example, CitiGroup gained a powerful marketing arm; we gain by having more products to sell. And it is very successful. We sell more Smith Barney then Smith Barney sells! So, again and again, your innuendos are baseless.


Stuart Posts:
(6) Fraud and deception is rampant throughout Primerica i.e. at the executive level.

I answer:
Outside of this web site, that statement would have you in court. But as you hide behind this web site, and because RipoffReports does not care if what you post is truthful or an out-and-out lie, there is nothing we can do to you. So that simply encourages you to lie more and more.


Stuart Posts:
A Primerica California agent (actually an executive) went to jail last year for ripping off a senior citizen and her daughter.

I answer:
Again you lie. The person who is named is an independent agent and NOT an executive. And what you conveniently leave out of the story is that as soon as Compliance learned of the transgression, Primerica fully paid back the client BEFORE any legal judgment was rendered. What is the moral? The company did the right thing. As soon as Primerica learned that an agent broke the rules, it did the ethical thing long before the legal system forced that restitution. But Stuart would have you believe that we are infested with corrupt and devious individuals. The only thing I think is infested is Stuart's apartment.


Stuart Posts:
(7) In conjunction with no. 6, there are numerous reports on this website alone reporting how Primerica misrepresents positions it offers as being salaried.

I answer:
I have invited many people down to our Money and Business Seminar. I am always VERY careful to NEVER state salary, job, or position. Yet I am always amazed by the number of people, who after attending the seminar, are upset that it wasn't a salaried job!!! I can only surmise that people hear and think according to their preconditioning in the corporate life style: get educated, get a job, and make a salary. They are looking for a job. As for numerous, check out other venues besides this one. In your search-engine type in Pepsi Sucks and see how many hits you get (376,000). Try AT&T Sucks (160,000). Try Gap Sucks (613,000). Now try Primerica Sucks. Only 618. Not 618,000. 618!!! Guess we can't be all that bad!!

So remember, one must be intelligent about what one believes. Investigate using reliable sources, not just a bulletin board (which this is) where any jerk can post any crap they want. Go to financial magazines such as Money, Forbes, AMBest etc. and check us out and our buy term and invest the difference motto.





In conclusion:
I know that Stuart will come back and call me a shill or a clown. I know that Stuart will ignore all the logics here and continue to fanatically post everywhere possible. I know that this will not stop Stuart and his delusional thinking.

It is my belief that Stuart is a competitor. I believe he sells insurance and/or mortgages. And I believe that he has and is losing business to us. So what does he do? He slithers (his word) across the internet looking for anything negative, even if it is false. Then he posts as much garbage here as possible. He answers various people on numerous threads spreading the same junk. He probably tells any client to check out Primerica on this site knowing full well he has filled it with his excrement.

So I will not post again. I now realize the fruitlessness of retorting over and over again the lies, half-truths and innuendoes posted here. I realize that those posting here who hate Primerica will continue to do so in spite of facts and logic. I realize that those who misunderstood what the opportunity was will continue to believe this is a scam. I realize that those who were approached by an agent, who bent or broke the rules, will apply that rip-off moniker to all of us. I realize that those who think are products are 2 or 3 times the going rates (not true) will continue to think that the products are rip-offs also. Those who do not understand how Primerica works will continue to lambaste it, most of the time without merit.

So if a victory for you Stuart is not having me here, then you won. The losers are those whom you infect with you crap. To all Primericans. Do not answer the garbage here. All logical retorts are ignored. The best thing is no answer. And I know that Stuart will use that silence as an affirmation of his incorrectness. So be it.

And if you answer, all you are doing is increasing the eye-ball count so that RipoffReports gets more ad money. When you post, you increase the search-engine hits and move this garbage to the front. And of course, once you have registered with RipoffReports, you start getting requests for money. Best to ignore this site.

So everyone, watch where you step, Stuart's here.
Bye.

It is always a pleasure to hear from Stuart (NOT).

I also read Jack's posting and found it to be intelligent. (If you think that I am implying that Stuart's is stupid, you are right!)

First, let me introduce Stuart to the new people on this site or to this thread. Stuart is the most prolific poster having posts on almost every thread. And, after his statements have been debunked and shown to be fraudulent, he simply starts new posts as he did here. The purpose of RipoffReports is for a consumer to post a grievance. But Stuart never states what happen to him; never states how he was hurt; never states anything about why posts here. I believe that he is a rival agent who is miss-using RipoffReports to denigrate Primerica unjustly, that is, a competitor using RipoffReports to falsely spew negatives about the competition.

So, once again, allow me to show how completely wrong, disingenuous and a liar that Stuart is. And I apologize upfront to all (except Stuart) for the very harsh tone I will take with Stuart.




Stuart Posts:
(1) It (I guess Primerica) helps destroy the banking system:

I answer:
The stupidity of this is beyond belief (but not for Stuart). The points made are so ludicrous as to be nonsensical. But allow me to state that Primerica is dedicated to removing the cancer of debt that pledges our society. Stuart believes that is good, meaning you should be sick and die penniless (figuratively) from your debt. He completely ignores that bankruptcies are at an all time high. He ignores that thousands upon thousands of baby-boomers are going into retirement in debt. It is better to ignore Stuart.


Stuart Posts:
(2) everyone is welcomed to work at Primerica. But, if everyone were to work at Primerica, then there'd be nobody left to sell to.

I answer:
As usual, Stuart takes a positive and positions it as a negative. He is very clever(?) in doing this but is really very deceptive in his postings. We have every walk of life, every nationality, every religion, every skin color, and every education level, etc., etc. I guess Stuart is against diversity. I guess most of us don't fit into Stuart's perfect world. We would all be better if Stuart is not in ours.


Stuart Posts:
Here are additional problems with Primerica.

I answer:
Stuart loves throwing his opinions into his postings as if they are fact. The truth is, as I explained, the above are NOT problems. But you have to get used to this type of subterfuge from Stuart.


Stuart Posts:
(3) It's a pyramid-schemed company

I answer:
Come on Stuart; are you so dumb that you can't learn? I've explained this to you several times. All hierarchical structures are pyramidal in shape. Therefore all corporations are pyramids. What you disingenuously are implying (something you do all the time) is that we are a Ponzi scheme. Ponzi schemes are illegal. We are not a Ponzi scheme no matter how many times you falsely imply it.


Stuart Posts:
meaning that only the fat cats at the top get to make the real money

I answer:
Stuart has stated this in different ways on different threads. On one thread he asks for proof that front-line agents make the big bucks, that is, over $100,000. Of course this is a trick question. Let me rephrase it; do the clerks at WalMart made the big bucks or just the WalMart family? Or, do the assemble line people make the big bucks, or just the top executives at GM. Do you make the big bucks at your job or do the top executives? See how stupid and ludicrous Stuart's positions are?


Stuart Posts:
(numerous requests for documentation to this website disproving what I say have fallen on deaf Primerica ears).

I answer:
This is a complete lie. I have answered Stuart's junk time and time again. And then he just goes and posts more untruths on a new thread.


Stuart Posts:
(4) Instead of coming over here to help out the victims of Primerica, you have trolls and shills from Primerica (their agents) coming by to either tell us how wonderful Primerica allegedly is or to tell the victims to contact corporate Primerica which is a copout.

I answer:
A little history is necessary here. Stuart has been complaining that we simply come on the site and (in his words) tell how wonderful Primerica is (as if that was a lie). So I noted for anyone who has a problem to contact our compliance department. Compliance investigates any wrong doing by any agent in Primerica. If validated, that agent loses his or her ability to be a member of the Primerica family (in corporate terms, they get fired). Stuart, in his deranged mind, thinks that is a copout. Does anyone think that posting here gets rid of the bad apple? Of course not! I posted the true solution. So I wonder what Stuart would rather have us do.


Stuart Posts:
(5) Primericans keep referring to being part of the big Citigroup (remember Enron?)

I answer:
Stuart loves to equate us to Enron, WorldCom and any other failed institution as if that means that we are about to fail also. Let's see if I can extend his irrationality to himself. I guess we should watch out for Stuart as he might shoot or kill us because he is a man just like Dalmer or Peterson or Nichols. See how stupid Stuart's extrapolations are? We are regulated by all 50 states, the feds, the SEC, the NASD and others. Enron had AA and they are out of business now. There is no equivalence.


Stuart Posts:
who is having their problems in court being charged with predatory lending.

I answer:
This is a total and complete lie. But that never stopped Stuart from posting any old crap he finds on unvetted sites. I investigated the court case incorrectly reported by Stuart. I found the truth on the fed's web site. Never once in the indictment was CitiGroup mentioned as the plaintiff. What Stuart deceitfully reported came from a slanted editorial and did not contain all the facts. But the facts have never, ever stopped Stuart from posting lies. For those who are interested, CitiGroup bought a Southern Bank that did this predatory lending. CitiGroup cleaned-up the bank's policies (but Stuart won't tell you that!). And as any one in the legal profession will verify, the legal successor, CitiGroup has to clean-up the legal mess also. Stuart listen for once! As a Successor Stuart; not as the plaintiff. What an idiot you are!


Stuart Posts:
On top of that all Primerica is to Citigroup is just an investment as Citigroup won't guarantee what Primerica sells.

I answer:
This particular line shows how really (I'm running out of synonyms for stupid) Stuart is. All business divisions that are bought by corporations are investments. Are you really that dumb to think that CitiGroup buys companies to lose money? Your positions are laughable. And again you lie. All our products are guaranteed.


Stuart Posts:
So what is Primerica without Citigroup?

I answer:
For the uneducated such as Stuart, WE bought Traveler's. So I guess we were nothing back then. The merger with CitiGroup helps both us and CitiGroup. For example, CitiGroup gained a powerful marketing arm; we gain by having more products to sell. And it is very successful. We sell more Smith Barney then Smith Barney sells! So, again and again, your innuendos are baseless.


Stuart Posts:
(6) Fraud and deception is rampant throughout Primerica i.e. at the executive level.

I answer:
Outside of this web site, that statement would have you in court. But as you hide behind this web site, and because RipoffReports does not care if what you post is truthful or an out-and-out lie, there is nothing we can do to you. So that simply encourages you to lie more and more.


Stuart Posts:
A Primerica California agent (actually an executive) went to jail last year for ripping off a senior citizen and her daughter.

I answer:
Again you lie. The person who is named is an independent agent and NOT an executive. And what you conveniently leave out of the story is that as soon as Compliance learned of the transgression, Primerica fully paid back the client BEFORE any legal judgment was rendered. What is the moral? The company did the right thing. As soon as Primerica learned that an agent broke the rules, it did the ethical thing long before the legal system forced that restitution. But Stuart would have you believe that we are infested with corrupt and devious individuals. The only thing I think is infested is Stuart's apartment.


Stuart Posts:
(7) In conjunction with no. 6, there are numerous reports on this website alone reporting how Primerica misrepresents positions it offers as being salaried.

I answer:
I have invited many people down to our Money and Business Seminar. I am always VERY careful to NEVER state salary, job, or position. Yet I am always amazed by the number of people, who after attending the seminar, are upset that it wasn't a salaried job!!! I can only surmise that people hear and think according to their preconditioning in the corporate life style: get educated, get a job, and make a salary. They are looking for a job. As for numerous, check out other venues besides this one. In your search-engine type in Pepsi Sucks and see how many hits you get (376,000). Try AT&T Sucks (160,000). Try Gap Sucks (613,000). Now try Primerica Sucks. Only 618. Not 618,000. 618!!! Guess we can't be all that bad!!

So remember, one must be intelligent about what one believes. Investigate using reliable sources, not just a bulletin board (which this is) where any jerk can post any crap they want. Go to financial magazines such as Money, Forbes, AMBest etc. and check us out and our buy term and invest the difference motto.





In conclusion:
I know that Stuart will come back and call me a shill or a clown. I know that Stuart will ignore all the logics here and continue to fanatically post everywhere possible. I know that this will not stop Stuart and his delusional thinking.

It is my belief that Stuart is a competitor. I believe he sells insurance and/or mortgages. And I believe that he has and is losing business to us. So what does he do? He slithers (his word) across the internet looking for anything negative, even if it is false. Then he posts as much garbage here as possible. He answers various people on numerous threads spreading the same junk. He probably tells any client to check out Primerica on this site knowing full well he has filled it with his excrement.

So I will not post again. I now realize the fruitlessness of retorting over and over again the lies, half-truths and innuendoes posted here. I realize that those posting here who hate Primerica will continue to do so in spite of facts and logic. I realize that those who misunderstood what the opportunity was will continue to believe this is a scam. I realize that those who were approached by an agent, who bent or broke the rules, will apply that rip-off moniker to all of us. I realize that those who think are products are 2 or 3 times the going rates (not true) will continue to think that the products are rip-offs also. Those who do not understand how Primerica works will continue to lambaste it, most of the time without merit.

So if a victory for you Stuart is not having me here, then you won. The losers are those whom you infect with you crap. To all Primericans. Do not answer the garbage here. All logical retorts are ignored. The best thing is no answer. And I know that Stuart will use that silence as an affirmation of his incorrectness. So be it.

And if you answer, all you are doing is increasing the eye-ball count so that RipoffReports gets more ad money. When you post, you increase the search-engine hits and move this garbage to the front. And of course, once you have registered with RipoffReports, you start getting requests for money. Best to ignore this site.

So everyone, watch where you step, Stuart's here.
Bye.

This isn't just about primerica. This is about all jobs.

Why would someone have to work hard to sell you on a really great job? Think about that.

It's the same thing in a club. Why would an attractive woman have to work to convince you to have sex with her?

She wouldn't. That's the answer. In fact, a hot looking girl gets to pick and choose who she wants. She doesn't have to say one word to convince anyone to have sex. Men line up, eager and ready. Many offer gifts or are willing to pay for her time.

Jobs work the exact same way. Nobody has to work hard to fill a good job. Any job where the employee can earn a fabulous income with great working conditions and good benefits sells itself. There is always a long list of qualified applicants just waiting in line to take the position.

Nobody needs to sit down with a room full of people and brag about the company to get people to take a good job. Just like the girl, people are ready and willing.

So, you have to wonder why people have to work so hard to get people into this primerica nonsense. Why is it the company has to search the internet job boards and cold call hundreds of people and get them to attend group interviews?

Obviously, the jobs can't be that good. Or, else they'd all be taken. Right?

Anytime someone has to sit you down and talk you into something, it can't be worth very much.

That's how I know primerica is nonsense. No money. Big promises that never materialize.

The primericans come here and tell me that. They are here, on every complaint or comment listed in these pages. They come and talk the company up.

Why is that? Why do they need to convince people? Why don't they let the job speak for itself?

That's easy. Because the job doesn't offer anything. It's not even a real job. You don't get a regular salary. There's no set hours. You try to sell stuff to your friends. If you make a sale, you get a few bucks. If you don't, you have to go back and find a new person to sell to.

When you have a job like that, about the only thing you can do is lie about it. Pretend there's big money. Pretend the products are so great that customers are eager to buy. About all anyone can do is try to hide the facts behind a mountain of bullshit.

Naturally, that won't fool the smart people. They'll see right away what's going on.

But, it will fool the idiots. Just like the envelope stuffing cons listed here, the idiots will readily believe just about anything you tell them.

So, what's the lesson here?

Anytime someone has to try to talk you into a job, it can't be any good. If it was, it would already be filled by eager applicants.

That's how I know a good job when I see one. A good job has 200 applicants lining up for 2 openings.

A bad job calls me out of the blue and offers me something I never heard of. I get to sit in a large room with 200 other people while some idiot tries hard to convince us to take the position.

Easy to see the difference!

I stumbled across this site and was compelled to add some comments. After reading a volume of information, I blended my own knowledge from understanding people and my Masters in Finance with a Concentration in Corporate Finance.

When I was a manager working for other corporations, I found that the corporate management structure is cutthroat and too often rewards those with better political skills than true business knowledge. I also know that too many people do not know enough about money and are taken advantage of through short-term, today-mentality thinking. There is no quick way to legally and ethically earn money or payoff debt, but often people look for the path of least resistance--large sums can come at one time--after a lot of ground work--but that's still not quick and easy.

From that, looking into an opportunity that is performance based, allows you to not be in competition with a boss, provides a mentor, and offers this to anyone seeking financial freedom or even just supplement income and increase financial knowledge, sounds like a company offering an all-around win: 1) help people get on a better finance track; 2) earn extra money for personnel production; and 3) be compensated for contributions to expanding distribution. From a business standpoint, it's great and you do not have to fire anyone.

I know that insurance premiums need to be priced competitively, not cheapest (read Warren Buffett's 2004 Annual Report to the shareholders of Berkshire Hathaway Inc for outside testimony), as the company needs to be there when you need it most; I know that interest matters on debt, but weighted average interest rate and loan structure are often ignored in personal finance; I know that most Americans are not acting for their retirement until too late--S.S. and pensions are not money in the bank or guaranteed--I know that investing is good for everyone and that money market savings accounts and CD's are not retirement vehicles.

I was seeing a lot of opinions thrown out and people appearing to defend a position based upon incomplete facts, emotions or lack of understanding of how to create wealth rather than big-picture evaluations of where most Americans are financially, and what the objectives and rewards are with Primerica for both consumer and agent. When people are nit picking about spelling, clearly, things have lost focus.

As in any business, there will be bad apples. Consumers beware, but I have seen horrible things done to people from other industry companies. As I see Primerica, they are out to educate and sell the consumer long-term financial wealth and use products to achieve that verse just selling finance products like most competitors. If there is a little premium built in to compensate them, it's cheaper than buying life insurance for your entire lifeit's not called life insurance because you need for lifebuying a mortgage and either paying on it for thirty years, or refinancing into or delaying retirement, and those other little bits that cost far more by not having the retirement like or when expected because one was never focused on building long-term wealth starting now. Success is not supposed to be easy, just worth it.

I think people should look at Primerica for what it offers them and start with what's comfortable. If it places you on a better pathas a consumer or agentgo for it. If it doesn't, pass as you would anything else. If it doesn't, based upon what? I wouldn't be quick to judge it on less training than a PFA. I read from people who felt that it might not be for them, but for $199, what a steal. Where's the risk? It makes business sense to ask that you put in some chips that are returned upon covering costs and following through with commitment. No different than earnest money in buying a house. I spent a lot more on college based upon a lot more speculation. I think people should question it positively with big-picture thinking and realize that every company has its criticsnot all credible or giving the whole storyI would lend little credibility to someone without a four-year (plus) degree in business or finance or has never run a successful business as an owner, or is the competition, a.k.a. rumors, hearsay and popular opinion spurred by ignorance or hidden agendas. Any person making money, or at the top so to speak, did so through hard work. Why would one expect any different at Primerica? Corporate America is structured like a pyramid. The difference is mentorship and having the possibility to surpass those above you without politics. I just don't see labeling Primerica as being the real Rip-off.