Complaint Review: Prosper - PMG - PMG Mentors - Robert Allen

Hey there Bridgett,

I hope that this rebuttal finds you in good spirits and health.

I am glad to hear you have settled with Devin "the snake" Willis. Just as I knew he would though, he has managed to weasel 50% of the $500.00 asking, by luring you to contact him "behind the scenes", while somehow managing to justify the fraudulent $250.00 charge.

If you honestly feel that the materials which are in your possesion are worth $250.00 and that Devin Willis and his team of cons haven't mislead you in some way, then you are somewhat of a "success story" in your own right.

I guess half of something is better than all of nothing. Maybe $250.00 is not worth all the unecessary headache. Only yourself and your husband can truly say what's fair to the both of you. Please do keep everyone informed should this fraudulent company try to pull something on you.

Until next time, take care Bridgett cause I care, Aloha from Hawaii and God Bless.

Hey there Bridgett,

I hope that this rebuttal finds you in good spirits and health.

I am glad to hear you have settled with Devin "the snake" Willis. Just as I knew he would though, he has managed to weasel 50% of the $500.00 asking, by luring you to contact him "behind the scenes", while somehow managing to justify the fraudulent $250.00 charge.

If you honestly feel that the materials which are in your possesion are worth $250.00 and that Devin Willis and his team of cons haven't mislead you in some way, then you are somewhat of a "success story" in your own right.

I guess half of something is better than all of nothing. Maybe $250.00 is not worth all the unecessary headache. Only yourself and your husband can truly say what's fair to the both of you. Please do keep everyone informed should this fraudulent company try to pull something on you.

Until next time, take care Bridgett cause I care, Aloha from Hawaii and God Bless.

Well I spoke to Devin Willis today. Once again he was very nice. He apologized about Tim and said they would send me a refund. I feel that he has delt with me fairly and so does my husband. It will not be a full refund. But then I have the books which sell retail for around $250.00 and a did do the 8 phone "mentoring sessions" and then if you count all the people I talked to, how much they are paid, and over head I feel what they are keeping is fair.

I have not yet recieved the refund or even the document saying they will give me a refund. But I expect it today and the check on the way this week. I will keep you posted. If anything goes wrong you will all know. I will not contact the BBB until the refund has cleared the bank.

Well I spoke to Devin Willis today. Once again he was very nice. He apologized about Tim and said they would send me a refund. I feel that he has delt with me fairly and so does my husband. It will not be a full refund. But then I have the books which sell retail for around $250.00 and a did do the 8 phone "mentoring sessions" and then if you count all the people I talked to, how much they are paid, and over head I feel what they are keeping is fair.

I have not yet recieved the refund or even the document saying they will give me a refund. But I expect it today and the check on the way this week. I will keep you posted. If anything goes wrong you will all know. I will not contact the BBB until the refund has cleared the bank.

Well I spoke to Devin Willis today. Once again he was very nice. He apologized about Tim and said they would send me a refund. I feel that he has delt with me fairly and so does my husband. It will not be a full refund. But then I have the books which sell retail for around $250.00 and a did do the 8 phone "mentoring sessions" and then if you count all the people I talked to, how much they are paid, and over head I feel what they are keeping is fair.

I have not yet recieved the refund or even the document saying they will give me a refund. But I expect it today and the check on the way this week. I will keep you posted. If anything goes wrong you will all know. I will not contact the BBB until the refund has cleared the bank.

Well I spoke to Devin Willis today. Once again he was very nice. He apologized about Tim and said they would send me a refund. I feel that he has delt with me fairly and so does my husband. It will not be a full refund. But then I have the books which sell retail for around $250.00 and a did do the 8 phone "mentoring sessions" and then if you count all the people I talked to, how much they are paid, and over head I feel what they are keeping is fair.

I have not yet recieved the refund or even the document saying they will give me a refund. But I expect it today and the check on the way this week. I will keep you posted. If anything goes wrong you will all know. I will not contact the BBB until the refund has cleared the bank.

Hey there Bridgett,

I hope that this rebuttal finds you in good spirits and health.

I like your fitness center analogy Bridgett, however, Real Estate "mentoring" programs are nothing like fitness center memberships. Real Estate Mentoring programs are more like envelope stuffing programs in the mid seventies to present day. They're scams!

There is no such thing as Real Estate "gurus" that are sharing "wealth building" Real Estate secrets to total strangers, for less than the "earning potential" claimed possible.

Sharing ones "wealth building" strategies to total strangers would be a losing proposition for any so called "guru." Mentoring strangers to earn thousands a month for $500.00?

Never happen. These $h!t peddlers are nothing but leaches, that are results of two closely related individuals having engaged in taboo activities.

If you have any questions or concerns, feel free to post them and I am sure either myself, or one of the many other victims of the "mentoring" scam and or supporters will respond.

Keep up the fight Bridgett! I wish you the best of luck.

Until next time take care Bridgett cause I care, Aloha from Hawaii and God Bless.

This is how I got into the fraudulent Mentoring Program located at 5072 N. 300 W Provo Utah 84604 Called Professional Mentoring Group now called Prosper Inc.

I bought an e-book and then was directed to a site that advertised looking for a 100 people in your city to be their next set of success stories. It went on to say you could be mentored by Robert Allen and his staff. Then it asks you to fill out a form so they can determine if you might be one of these people able to be a success story. After you finish they ask you to call an 800 number to receive a "free gift". I got a voice mail and left a message. The next day I get a call, it's a "screener" who asks a bunch of questions. One statement made was "we will show you how to use OPM (Other Peoples Money) to get you going to your future. So how much credit do you have?" When he found I had very little he asked if my husband would be partnering with me. And how much credit he had. He then set up a call for the evening with his supervisor who "if he thought we'd be good partners in the program, would invite us to join the group. Then he'd let us know the investment we'd need to make for our future." That night (March 9 2005) we were welcomed aboard for $7500.00 and everything went down hill from there. Our supplies took two weeks to arrive. Our mentor was always calling late, gave us no personal help or advice, only spent 15 to 20 minutes on the phone with us. I paid that money to be "mentored" I was lectured to for, at the most, a half hour on the phone, 8 times, and then left to myself. I called for a refund and had a conversation with a Devin Willis (June 30, 2005) and played phone tag for 3 days before he went on vacation. Now the guy handling my case (July 5 and 7, 2005) is short and tells me the company does not give refunds. No where in the agreement I read does it say that I can not receive any of my money back, and I WANT MY REFUND. The company did not come close to providing me anything worth the amount I paid, let alone any service. And from what I've gathered by talking to these people, it will not ever do so.

First off the way they contact you is bogus. I get a Robert Allen Real Estate e-book. It redirects me to a page I don't want to go to. Then on that page they state they are looking for a 100 people in your city to be the next set of success stories. I bet an 100 dollars that if you live in Seattle, New York, Denver, Phoenix, Huston, and any other large city they have sold this scam to way over 100 people. Next I bet Robert Allen has never set foot in the Prosper/ PMG building in his life and that no more then 5 of the people there ever worked with him or any of the other gurus they represent. Then there is the fact that they make it sound, on the web page and almost all the way through the interview, that this has nothing to do with money, only the success story they want. At the most you think it will be a very minimal fee. When they ask for your credit information they make you think it is so they can evaluate how much you can invest in your first investment, for us, our first Real Estate deal. Then when they do say you'll need to make an investment they will not tell you how much it is, that's the supervisors job if he thinks you make the cut because we don't offer this opportunity to just anyone.

The next thing you know you are told that you are so awesome because you are ready for this advancement in your future and are far above the average Jo. It will only cost you just $7500.00...(fill in the blank as I've seen anywhere from $1500 to 10,000 for the program I bought.) Next they hand you to the payment processors who has you get on the computer and go to a site where a document comes up with fill in the blanks and they want you to type your name in saying you agree to it. When I asked if I could read it she said sure and then started asking if I was done ever minute. She never once went through the agreement with me only asked once if I understood everything. When I asked if I could copy it right now she said it will be attached to my website I could get it there, later. Then she asked if we were done. I finally typed in my name just to get her off my back.

We told each of the interviewers that we had no money other then what was on our credit cards and that we had no extra cash coming in. But they only replied that they'd teach us to use OPM so that we could pay for stuff and then how to get it off or cards before interest kicked in or within the first 90 days if we did our part too, and then we'd be fine. After all they have to help us succeed in order to get our story.
So far by synching our belts really tight we've been able to make the payments on that credit card after having to transfer it to a lower interest card.

The next day I went on line and found the Ripoffreport.com and found I might have made a real big mistake. But I couldn't find the copy of my contract and I figured I'd give them a chance. The next day I had my first mentoring Phone Call. Jeremy didn't even talk for more then 10 minutes about Real Estate he just got to know us. It was our longest phone call of all eight. He told us that none of the houses we'd gotten the day before where really feasible. That we probably should wait to do anything until we were networked. From then on he called us 15 to 45 minutes late. On the 45 minutes late, we missed it because we'd gone on with our day. Then he called an hour early the next day for the make up session, which I think might have been right on the hour. Then I missed one session do to my phone dieing. That was made up at the regular time, which means 15 minutes late. Then absolutely nothing. He never more then twice mentioned the work books or reading the books or the home work. And when we asked about our over inflated, bidding war, lease option to the max market he just said keep networking. Our market is so tuff that when the agents we talked to found out we only qualify for 170 grand they just drop us. So do most mortgage brokers. Houses here are 180 to the sky's the limit. We only qualify for the way out in the boondocks one and two bedrooms where no one will rent or flip, or really sad condos, or trailers, or mobiles in parks. And didn't I already mention that if not rented we can't even come close to making a payment. Even the fixers in our area are going for more then asking price. IF we could even get anything, we'd have to turn it in a month or go bankrupt. And we have a year old baby and I work in apartments so I'd loose my job if we did that. It happens to be not an option. So there goes OPM and the promise that they'd help us make back the investment.

And as all of this goes on I finally find the agreement only to find that the three day period is over, what I didn't do was see that they have 2 refund sections and different policies in each. I don't receive my supplies and finally called customer service a week and a half after sign up. They say they don't own that department I'd have to call so and so in shipping. So I call and leave a message, no one calls back. I call the next day and leave a message again. And finally that after noon someone calls back to tell me they have no idea what happened but the stuff got shipped ground so they'll refund the air shipping price. When asked about a full refund she tells me they don't have control over that but she'll refund the shipping price and that everything shall arrive in 3 to 4 days, 5 days later the books arrive.

Thinking that my time for a refund was passed I open the books and start reading, thinking that though I didn't like my first 3 mentoring sessions I'd try and make the best of it. So I read, and so far even to date the books are the only good thing in the program and the only thing worth any money. I found that the mentor was just highlighting the chapters in the student books, which I read in two days. I continue to look for homes. Everything we looked at has 5 to 25 offers on it. Everyone was/is getting 10 to 50 thousand over asking price. At least in the range that we could even contemplate looking in. So after the last phone lecture session, my sisters wedding, a crises at work, and my whole family getting over an illness, I email for a refund. It took two emails and I got a message from Devin Willis. I called back we had a conversation on very civil terms. He tells me he's really sorry about the level of service I got. And asks why I didn't complain before. Then we go through the, we have an agreement thing. And the, we'd like to set you up starting over with a new mentor with a different focus in Real Estate, and if that doesn't help then I'm willing to negotiate a far price for the mentoring received and take that to the board of directors. I tell him I must speak to my husband first. Then we play phone tag for 3 days and Devin leaves on vacation. He doesn't give me a name or number for the person handling my case in the time he is gone. Annoying, but not unforgivable.

Then I get a call from a cocky guy Tim from Student Care wanting to get me signed up for the new mentor. I tell him we don't want a new mentor we want out of the program and our money back. That Devin and I had spoken of negotiating an agreeable price for services rendered and that is what I wanted. He tells me that it is Funny that Devin mentioned a refund since we don't give refunds. And having just gotten off the phone with Tim I'm now very livid. What a stuck up, pretentious, uncooperative, patronizing, unhelpful, pushy, condescending, threatening, CREAP! The conversation started off with now where were we? If you could call it a conversation, because as soon as I told him how I felt about the service the company had given me I almost couldn't get a word in edge wise. I told him about the crappy service and he immediately goes to the Agreement. He said something along that line of someone explaining it to me before I signed it and I told him I would disagree with that. And told him no one ran through it with me. And that when I asked to read it I felt hounded. He said but you signed it. By the way PMG doesn't have my signature. Every online business entity that I have bought other large services from had a copy of the agreement/ contract and receipt sent to me that I had to sign and send back so they have a legal document. So I tell him yes that I typed my name on the page. He then directs me to section 4 a paragraph called Right of Rescission

You, the buyer may cancel this Agreement at any time prior to midnight of the third business day after the date you receive your materials (or such later date as provided under state law), which excludes Sundays and holidays. To cancel this agreement, you must transmit a signed and dated notice of cancellation to us either via fax or in writing within that three day period. The notice must state that you are canceling the agreement, or words of similar effect. The notice must be sent to us.

I told him that I did not find the agreement until at least 4 days after I'd signed it and that I found the other statement in the contract stating:
You have the right to cancel for any reason within three days of your initial sign up to receive a full refund. Notification of cancellation must be received via email. Cancellation request should be sent to activate@pmgmentors. Com and must include you name, email address, and the reason for cancellation. You may cancel your account at any time after the first three days.
All set-up and design charges will not be refunded for work already performed.

Tim didn't even let me finish reading it. He just went off about my receiving my materials and not having canceled. I told him I didn't even get them for 2 weeks or more and that when I asked about a full refund she said that they didn't handle that but she'd give me a refund of the shipping charge and that was it. He just said well then you had a full two weeks to get a refund that is more then any other company gives. What he neglected to care about was I was told that they ship next day air and that means that normally they would be here within that original 3 day period so at the most you'd have 6 days to reject the program and get a full refund. Or that they where so late, or that I told him I didn't remember that part of the contract that I may have even stopped reading after finding the paragraph I stated as it is the first one in the agreement the way it came up on the computer. And why in the world would someone put two conflicting cancellation paragraphs in the same document. He just said that 3 days after accepting the materials all transactions are final. SHOW ME WHERE THAT IS IN THE AGREEMENT!!!! If you can do that then I might not be so livid. But I'll guaranty that it doesn't say that anywhere. And once again if I had thought that, that was true I'd never have agreed to put my typed name on that document. The whole thing was an unknown quality, and for that kind of money if I'm not given the service I deserve I expect to get at least most, if not all, my money back.

So then he tells me that he will give me up to 10 mentoring sessions with someone in Real Estate focusing on what I want to focus on and that is the best he can do. When would I like to start. I tell him that I have to talk to my husband. Up to that point his voice was coming across condescending, like I was an idiot, that I was trying to rip them off, like I was the one in the wrong, and that I was a cheat and a lire, but still completely civil and even happy. But then he got really aggressive and pushy and asked me when I'd call him back. I told him I didn't know as my husband works two jobs and I didn't know his schedule for today. He got kind of huffy, threatening, and forcefully said well it had better be soon, like the first part of next week, Monday or Tuesday. As if, if I didn't do it then I'd loose out on the opportunity to get the new mentoring sessions or something else might happen, that wasn't good. By then I just wanted to hit the guy.

HE then had the nerve to ask me if there was anything else he could do to help me. HELP ME, he didn't help me, he was a p***k. I have since went to the Utah BBB and am writing this to add to my ripoffreport.com complaint and to send to the Attorney General of Utah, The FTC and any other Consumer oriented place in the USA. I will also file it with Washington States BBB and Attorney General and then I'll keep going for all 50 states they do business in. Possibly even Canada and Australia as I've found they do business there too. I may have been willing to try mentoring again. But after speaking to this guy I want nothing to do with this company at all. I told him after speaking to him for 30 seconds the first time he called that I'd rather wait and speak to Devin again. But he went off about how he could do everything Devin could do and this needed to be taken care of now. So I was to work with him. Excuse me I'm the one with the complaint I'm the customer, and thought the customer is not always right, I was very nice and civil and just wanted not to have to go through the whole rehash game again. And after 30 seconds of the guys attitude I knew I'd get nothing but crap from him. Upon ending the conversation he said he'd send me an email and that he I was to send him an email as soon as I'd spoken to my husband. So here are my complaints. They mislead you into paying for this Mentoring Program then they don't let you read your agreement. Then they give you REALY crappie service. Then they refuse a refund when no were in your agreement does it say that you can't get a refund. And they treat you like dirt for asking for one. This is definitely a company that needs to be checked into further to see if they have more issues that need to be addressed.

I sent two emails to Devin Willis. The same day as the second email I got a call. We had a nice phone conversation that lasted just over 32 minutes. At the end of the converstation Devin offered to start the mentoring sessions over from the begining, with a new mentor, with a new focuse.

And if that did not work then we'd disscuss what was a fair cost for services already performed and he'd take that to the "Board of Directors". I told him I'd have to speak to my husband. He said he understood that and we'd speak the next day. So the next day we played phone tag, same the next day and the next. Then Devin went on vacation for 11 days.

I was not given information for the person now handling me but I did recieve a call from a Tim. Who said they do not give refunds. I told him I'd really rather wait for Devin to come back and speak with him. He told me he could do anything Devin could. I had to end the conversation do to timing.

Though I was not impressed with Tims handling of the situation.

Now I will quote from the Agreement I typed my name on over the internet.

"You have the right to cancel for any reason within three days of your initial sign up to receive a full refund. Notification of cancellation must be received via email. Cancellation requests should be sent to activate@pmgmentors.com and must include your name, email address and the reason for cancellation. you may cancel your account at any time after the first three days." "All set-up and design charges will not be refunded for work already performed."

NO WHERE does it say that you WILL NOT recieve a refund. NO WHERE does it state a "mentoring", "restocking", "coaching" or any other fee at cancellation. Then the same agreement states in another place a completely different statement.

"Right of Rescission"

"You, the Buyer, may cancel this Agreement at any time prior to midnight of the third business day after the date you receive your materials(orsuch later date as provided under state law), which excludes Sundays and holidays. To cancel this agreement, you must transmit a signed and dated notice of cancellation fo us either via fax or in writing within thath day period. The notice must state that you are canceling the agreement, or words of similar effect. the notic must be sent to us."

I read the first one 2 weeks after signing up and before I got my matterials. So I did not send them back and cancel. How decieving is it to have 2 different statements in two different places. Neither of which said you can't get a refund and on of which tells you you can't cancel when one said you can.
I WOULD NEVER have agreed to this document if I thought I couldn't get my money back if I was dissatisfied. Who would when they are asking what they ask for this joke of a "Mentoring Program".

Now I get a call from Tim again today saying "I just don't understand why you want to cancel with the program." That after apologizing for not getting back to me sooner but yesterday was so "busy" that it "wasn't even funny". I wonder if that is because there are so many unsatisfied people out there.

I did not speak with him yet because I had a guest over and had to leave the phone.
But lets just say I am still not at all impressed with this company.

Also I bought some grant writing materials on line and then got called by a company saying they wanted to sell me grant writing coaching. It sounded just like PMG/Prosper and is also out of Utah. Any idias anyone?

I paid for what I was told was a course that would have a "Mentor" who would help me to reach my goal. As I said what I got was not worth the price paid, not close. One guy said that he cancelled the program and was not given a refund because of "services rendered." The "service" I got was no where near what I paid for.
It would be like getting a call from a fitness place who sells you a membership for a sign up fee of $400 and tells you you will be getting a personal trainer, the full range of body building equipment, and bikes, stair steps, a swimming pool and so forth. And that the monthly dues are $80. Then they tell you you can get a refund in the next 3 days. You can't make it to the club in 3 days and when you get there you find the pool is 10 feet long, and 3 feet deep they have two bikes, a stair step, and a bow flex. And they have signed up 100 other people to use it too. You were ripped off right?
When a company tells you something, leading you to believe another and then tells you, we provided our end you just arn't doing yours they are still liable.

Let me tell you if I'd been lead to believe I'd get what I got I wouldn't have paid $500.00 for it.