Complaint Review: Q4 Marketing AKA Cydcor AKA DS Max

You mentioned that if I found something better then to let you know. Amway is way better, doesn't require 60 hour work weeks and you aren't used as a whipping post by management since you don't have a manager. Plus you don't have to wait until a person that you trained "opens up their own office" before you see a return from your investment in to them.

Hey everyone,

I was an Assistant Manager. I was frequently one of the top reps on my campaign and I had a large team. I love sales and I still work in sales and business development. So why did I leave? It has something to do with business ethics.

I not going to insult the field. However, I can say that the business is not what it appears to be and I found most Cydcor managers to be nave, ignorant, and completely unfit to be running a business. After my experience with Cydcor offices and Id advise you not work there if you are a female or find any of the following behavior or scenarios inappropriate . . .

1. A 30 something year old assistant manager sleeps with a teenage girl on his team . . . and gets her pregnant . . . about 15 feet from where the Sean sleeps (they mightve tried to hide that one but 40 weeks makes it pretty obvious).
2. Your boss actually argues with you that when a girl says NO! she usually means Yes . . . and then tries to prove it to you.
3. Your boss refers to his admin as the third base coach in reference to her sexual activity before her boyfriend.
4. Your boss tells you, I want to f**k you!
5. Your manager tells you that every guy in the business wants to f**k you.
6. Your boss, while in the office, refers to a girl on your team as  c*m-dumpster
7. While trying to train the new admin she freaks out and looks up at you in disgust as a response to the pornographic photos floating across the screen of the bosses laptop.
8. Someone you see as a mentor calls you late at night to get you to come over to his hotel room.
9. You tell a superior you arent interested and he is then a complete d**k to you.
10. While in the office, your boss asks you or the admin if youve ever kissed a girl. . . . then he asks you if you would have a threesome with one of the Cydcor employees.
11. Your manager says he wants to f**k Vera (sorry, I think she deserves a little more respect than that)
12. Your manager/owner and another manager frequently joke in front of you about one of them f**king the others admin.
13. Another manager in your sales organization cheats on his wife with an employee.
14. There is no HR.
15. The punishment for sexual harassment is getting yelled at (that's how you handle it professionally  . . . right?).
16. A manager/owner asks you for a 1 on 1 . . .  you think it is because you high rolled the office that day by making $250 . . . you then realize that he simply wanted a chance to hit on you and grope you.
17. Your boss tells you that you should expect to be hit on at work. When you ask what you do differently that dozens of other people in the office you are told Have you looked in the mirror? You dont look like [them]
18. The bosss response to being called unprofessional is to tell people their idea of a professional environment doesnt exist.
19. You boss tells you that a girl who had barely sold anything during her 6 weeks of employment was allowed to stick around bc shed come to work with her shirt half un buttoned and it was entertaining to the guys.
20. Two superiors constantly talk about implying a NO GIRLS ALLOWED rule because females are high-maintenance (all females I ever saw get anywhere were considered so).

Im so embarrassed that I was associated with these people and managers who know about this behavior and do nothing about it. Furthermore, Ive felt incredibly guilty not talking about this when I know people are constantly interviewing to work in these offices. Hopefully, this will keep other young, bright, ambitious driven and somewhat nave people from making the same mistakes I did . . . looking the other way when the above kind of behavior was happening all around me.

Furthermore, my time with Cydcor and LA Marketing taught me never to work for someone who . . .

1. Doesnt pay you
2. Teaches you to fudge #s in Merlin and yells at you when you do it correctly. 
3. Owes you over $1000
4. Owes one of your guys $200
5. Lies to you
6. Lies to a new hire in front of you
7. Plays video games instead of hitting the field
8. Reads gossip columns while you work.
9. Tells you he is hitting the field and goes home to sleep

Btw . . . don't fool yourselves about that promoted on performance s**t. In a "managers only" meeting the truth came directly out of an Org. Consultants mouth . . "You choose who you promote."

Oh, and about making decent money . . .  after its all said and done . . . most rookie managers don't make much more than field reps.

alpinesettlementgroup.com is the website. address is 11811 n tatum phoenix az ste 3031. had an interview and came home did research and discovered the website was created 7 days ago and had a link to a esquire marketing site and the info s****.>

I just started at a cydcor in Birmingham, AL. and it is the greatest thing to ever happen to me. I caught to all the sayings very quickly. I can impulse anybody, I impulsed my own mother into getting DSL and Dish even though she was paying less with cable with no contract. Ya'll are just mad cause yall can't get on the bell. You can't find six people in a day to sign a piece of paper. How are yall gonna make it in any other business when that is all that is required of you. And if you can't find those six people all you have to do is use a phone book, all the information you need is in there. But it shouldnt come to that bc all you have do is quote the price without fees. Or you just add worlwide occasional and tell them its free. Or you can tell that you are going to give them $175 to try out DSL and "forget" to mention they will be charged for the modem and the services.
Oh. and all you people who say i am unethical. AT&T can always refund the money. So its a win win situation.

HEY GUYS!!!!
HEY WHAT!!!!!
YALL READY FOR IMPACT!?!?!?!?!
YEAH!!!!!
I LOVE THIS JOB!!!!!!

I graduated from college in May and started looking for my first job. I read an ad for a marketing firm that prided itself on its "unique" approach, so naturally I was interested. I applied for a job with JNL & Associates, went to my first interview which lasted maybe 20 minutes. I asked what exactly made JNL's approach different and unique. The owner gave me vague answers. I was disheartened, because every other job interview I've had lasted for 45 minutes to an hour. I just knew I wasn't getting called back.

To my surprise I get the call rewarding me for getting a 2nd interview and I show up only to see the same 4 candidates in the lobby that were there when I was there previously. what the heck? They said only 1 or 2 out of a few hundred would get called back...that's when I first thought something was up. I get called into the owner's office and meet him as well as "the person I need to impress today". We head out.

I follow her about 20 miles up the interstate to a shopping center. We meet at an AT&T wireless store and head in. I watch her approach customers and try to sell them services. I'm blown away. What the HELL is this about? I head back to meet with the owner and he offers me a job, and I take it reluctantly. I mean, it's my first job out of college why not?

The next 3 weeks are up and down. I go from almost walking out of the store within the first 2 hours of my first day to being excited for a new campaign that may arrive soon. Every day I talk myself out of quitting with dreams on 6-figures. I came in with 6 other people, and now it's only me and another person left. I kinda feel good about lasting so long, but I'm also jealous that the other guys were smart enough to not come back.

So, I quit today.

Other offices in Atlanta that I'm aware of: Global Expectations, KSL Concepts

I understand that this individual had a frustrating experience with a Cydcor office. I would feel the same way under said circumstances.

I am with a Canadian Cydcor office and we are work for a major Canadian service provider. I wish I could be more specific as our client is very reputable in a positive light.

I'll get straight to the point. I've been with the company for 10 weeks. I'll admit that during the first week or two, I was very skeptical but the bottom line is that I am making well over a thousound bucks a weeks and am actually enjoying my job. Perhaps I'm a rarity. Oh and I'm paid every week. The cheques clear.

I bartended for roughly the last 5 years at very high end bars and made a decent living. The hours began to bug me and I was referred to the company by a friend. I agree that the ads are misleading but the cold hard truth is that most people won't give this a try if we are super specific about the face to face, door to door aspect. The way that your interview was handled is ridiculous.

Is this job for everyone? F* no. But I'm having a blast making good money and building a team. I've already gained invaluable experience and am well on my way to opening my first office.
To the person who wrote this report, maybe you came across a joke of an office and that IS OUR flaw but if you think that this idea can't work with a good client then you are truly close minded and will for ever be a middle class earner.

On behalf of my fellow workers. I apologize for such a louzy effort.

So everything on this site is true. I was so intrigued while reading this. It is 3am and I feel compelled to read every single entry and NOW I am even responding.

So..

I worked at the Arsene Lee Advertising group in San Francisco. It was my first "real" job out of college. I was very excited to start working there. I am SUCH a people person and everyone seemed great, even "the short 27 year-old guy" who interviewed me (I thought that was a funny description of him that I read in on of the entries).

Anyway, during my time there I realized a few things. I learned A LOT about myself, about what I am capable of, about how I need to protect myself and my self worth. I also learned a great deal of professional skills, about talking to people, about learning how to read people, about learing how to build quicj relationships, and about learning how to realate to a variety of people.

While I learned these things, I also made great friends that I still talk with to this day. So I guess after all is said and done. YES I do feel as though I was mislead and I DO feel like I was taken advantage of, but I try to look at the experience as a glass that is half full, and see the good things that I took out of that experience. GEEZE, I even moved ALL THE WAY TO DALLAS TEXAS to help open an office (boy was that an experience!)

It seems as though people think that opening an office of their own in completely impossible. However, I personally know 6 people from my office that opened their own deal.And after a couple years of the business, they took their profits and left. I hear one took the profits and used that to start a business of her own that she REALLY wanted to run. And I hear that "short 27 year old" even closed down the office that I was once a part of! Crazy!

I guess the point I am trying to make is that this job is NOT for just anyone, and NOT everyone is going to open an office, but there is a very high possiblilty that if you work hard enough you WILL get an office. Now the amount of success that you have while you have your own office is again, up to you.

I am not one to badmouth people for their career choices, so I am not going to go into all the hairy details that surrounded my xit of the company, but I will say this. THIS IS NOT A BUSINESS FOR PEOPLE WHO ARE "NICE" AND WEAK MINDED!! YOU NEED NOT APPLY! But I guess if you have read all of these, you know what you are up against, but you ALSO know what could possibly be in store for you.

--Neena
Grateful for the experience. GLAD to be gone!

PS the emeryville office, is that the one with the manager that wears bowties?? he gave me the creeps!

PPS pardon the spelling errors and type-os; there should be spell check on this thing.

SO I am walking home on a beutiful day and who do I see one of my ex managers walking down the street training some girl. She said "I saw wehat you wrote on the website and that's BS". Well my question is if you've read all this why would you still worrk for the company. This poor girl was supposed to go out and open her own office in January, why is she still here pounding the pavement in June? Cause it's a nowhere job with minimal opportunity at best. I really hope that she gets the picture soon because she is abright girl with a future ahead of her, only she is being led astray like so many others. I hope the best for you folks especially that kind, intelligent, beautiful girl I just saw on the street.

hi everyone my name is adam i am from the toronto area in canada i was living a descructive lifestyle in canada and moved to atlanta georgia with my wife and two small children i responded to the same ads you all did but on monster.com, i met the office owner of wentworth marketing his name is ed and he is a very nice and honest man he gave me the job and within 9 days i was leader, i have been there 1 month and got 3rd best sales rep in the country in my 2nd week making 1450 dollars that week working the bellsouth campaign. im in my 5th week and my wife left me and went back to canada with my daughter and now i have my son with me ed gave me time off to figure out what i want to do and if i can find someone to watch my son i can go back to the office and work. my leader derrick has been awesome to me and very helpful and they all want to see me succeed and come back. i understand the hours are long and not for evryone but it is not a scam its an opportunity, if you all met ed and worked in this office you would feel the same, nothing comes easy in life and you can own your own office i guess you all met the wrong people and that sucks but there are very good people in this company under cydcor, and you can be successful and financially independent.

ed does go on trips and not just to managers meetings. he went to england for a week to see his parents, you have to be good at the job to go far in the company and i know i can do it. if i have to move back to canada im going to find an office in toronto to work at because i believe in it so good luck to you all and think about why you failed it might be you not the company!!

I am writing a report of a cydcor ICL by the name of Niko-Laos. The manager of this ICL is named Eddie Sardinha. He is the most passionate, energetic, and motivated liar that I know. He will act as if you are the best of friends and than stab you in the back when you are not looking. He always preaches about honesty, integrity, and loyalty. On a daily basis, he does not demonstrate any of the above. I suggest that you stay away from this company unless you want to work 6 days, 70 hours a week and sit in a cingular store selling bellsouth to customers that dont need what you are trying to give them.

Look the truth of the matter is that Cydcor and it's "independent" sales organizations are a complete scam they disclose nothing in the beginning and will only tell you how the organization works as need be.

I worked for Gibson Rose in Emeryville AKA Cydcor and was bamboozled by other people in the company who themselves are jaded by the management.

When I was hired I was told that I would be able to start my own office in a year and all promotions are based on personal performance. Yeah right, you have to be a leader, build a team, INVEST $10,000 of money paid to you for YOUR work in overides which is your salary but your manager puts this money into a business account you can't touch???? OK! the truth is that there are some success stotries but the truth is that they are few and far between. Every office is competing to be the best... why? because they make no money unless the people sell. It's a no lose for Cydcor if you make they make money if you fail, they lose nothing.

Everything written above is true, I love how the owners have posted rebuttals about how it's not really like that. OH what crap! They care nothing about thier employees all they want to do is bend the truth to get as many people working for them as they can.

Oh and I worked for them for 3 months went to Top Gun and was told to go help open a new office.

Thank God I quit I hope other people will learn from our mistakes and stay away.

The name is MOON WHANG,my bad..

The name is MOON WHANG,my bad..

The name is MOON WHANG,my bad..

The name is MOON WHANG,my bad..

I came across this site just recently. I have filed my own report on Maxwell Makrketing..Just wanted to post it here too so that more number of people will know...
**********************************************
I'm writing this report after I read few other reports about this Company....I guess I'm not as lucky as the other guys who wrote those reports...

ok...so, I was a fresh graduate looking for jobs & I saw the ad on the web.Even though it was not exactly what I wanted to do, I thought I'll give it a try..The first interview lasted about 10 min. I was told that they would get back to me if my resume matched their needs....I got a call the next day & was asked to come in for a second interview. I was told that it would be a full day interview. I didnt have a car & so my friend dropped me off for the interview. I was sent with "Jess" (not her real name..let me spare her the trouble of having her name ripped off on the web) & spent the whole day going business-to-business. She told me that they have a couple of other people who also interviewed for the same position & based on her recommendation they would or would not invite me for a 3rd round of interview. so, naturally i was trying to impress her to get into her good books.

She was fully incharge of the situation & painted a very bright picture of what working in the company would be like...Ofcourse, she was very nice, friendly & easy going..It must have been a good day for her as she made around $150(dont exactly know) that day. She told me that the company pays commission for every sale that she makes.She was extra friendly on the ride back to the office(it was 6 PM...) & I really liked her. She told me that since I didnt own a car, it was a major drawback for me & asked me to get back to her when I have a car.

I waited for a few days & when I didnt hear from any other companies, I went ahead & called "Jess" & told her that I was planning on buying a car if I had an offer from the company(foolish me...little did i know that i was to regreat it later). I thought that i might as well as work at maxwell until

I get other job offers (also, i might also gain some experience). She called me for a 3rd interview & again my friend dropped me off...The interview hardly lasted 5 min(i was sure it was 3min)...& was conducted by Mr. Moon chang..i was told that i could join the next day or as soon as i have the car ready.

I started working there soon & gradually realised that it was not exactly as the way "Jess" put it for me...I left home at 6.30am & returned by 8pm...By then, I already had a car loan & no offers yet from other companies. I was basically working to pay off my car loan. Most of the money I made(I guess i was not that bad in sales as i thought to be) went towards gas & car loan. I was promoted to the next level(level 2 or a 'leadership' level). I was told that now since i was a 'leader', I would have to come in earlier than the rest. I was now leaving home at 6am & returned even later 8.30pm. I worked my xxxx off but wasnt happy at all.

When I became a 'leader', I was told to interview others & was 'trained' on the do's & dont's of interviewing. I was given a list of questions that can be asked & also on how to 'take-charge-of-the-situation' "Jess" also told me that if I get too bored interviewing people, I could always ask people questions about them as people loved to talk about themselves (She also said,"remember when i interviewed you, we didnt have anything in common & yet we could talk for our entire journey to the office?"). I was sick to my stomach & lost all the respect that I had for "Jess" these were a bunch of people teaching other people on how to carry their 'legacy' of interviewing.

i was taught all the 'skills of the trade'told what questions to ask, how to take charge of the interview, how to create an atmosphere of "fear-of-loss" ( and to think that i liked "Jess" & desperately bought a car to get to work for them...foolish me).i hated it.

also, i learnt that the way u get to the 3rd level(manager level) is when you have interviewed & hired an "x" amount of people...Basically, you are judged by how many people you bring in & how quickly you train them to be like you & produce "x" amount of sales a month. nothing short of a 'multi-level marketing' type situation.

when i could no longer take it,i quit my job(if u can call it a job) sold my car & learnt an important lesson in my life(which sadly to say i didnt learn at my university. NEVER TAKE PEOPLE AT FACE VALUE).

Unfortunately, I didnt check these rip off reports. If you are lucky, you get to see some of these rip off reports before you get a chance to make a decision..
************************************************

Did I also mention that MOON WHANG,the owner at maxwell marketing bragged to me about getting new people in. One time, the guy I interviewed, decided not to join the company because I gave him a honest idea of what it would be like..Moon whang just 'ripped-me-off'. he said,"do you have any idea how much it costs me to keep these people walking in through the doors?"...what kind of a owner would be mad at you for telling the truth??!!! Also, when he calls people for the 2nd interview, he doesnt use his real name...He answers the phone as some "andrew" or "john"...he joked about it at leaders meeting...Apparently it makes the interviewee think that he's 'American'...what a joke...

I came across this site just recently. I have filed my own report on Maxwell Makrketing..Just wanted to post it here too so that more number of people will know...
**********************************************
I'm writing this report after I read few other reports about this Company....I guess I'm not as lucky as the other guys who wrote those reports...

ok...so, I was a fresh graduate looking for jobs & I saw the ad on the web.Even though it was not exactly what I wanted to do, I thought I'll give it a try..The first interview lasted about 10 min. I was told that they would get back to me if my resume matched their needs....I got a call the next day & was asked to come in for a second interview. I was told that it would be a full day interview. I didnt have a car & so my friend dropped me off for the interview. I was sent with "Jess" (not her real name..let me spare her the trouble of having her name ripped off on the web) & spent the whole day going business-to-business. She told me that they have a couple of other people who also interviewed for the same position & based on her recommendation they would or would not invite me for a 3rd round of interview. so, naturally i was trying to impress her to get into her good books.

She was fully incharge of the situation & painted a very bright picture of what working in the company would be like...Ofcourse, she was very nice, friendly & easy going..It must have been a good day for her as she made around $150(dont exactly know) that day. She told me that the company pays commission for every sale that she makes.She was extra friendly on the ride back to the office(it was 6 PM...) & I really liked her. She told me that since I didnt own a car, it was a major drawback for me & asked me to get back to her when I have a car.

I waited for a few days & when I didnt hear from any other companies, I went ahead & called "Jess" & told her that I was planning on buying a car if I had an offer from the company(foolish me...little did i know that i was to regreat it later). I thought that i might as well as work at maxwell until

I get other job offers (also, i might also gain some experience). She called me for a 3rd interview & again my friend dropped me off...The interview hardly lasted 5 min(i was sure it was 3min)...& was conducted by Mr. Moon chang..i was told that i could join the next day or as soon as i have the car ready.

I started working there soon & gradually realised that it was not exactly as the way "Jess" put it for me...I left home at 6.30am & returned by 8pm...By then, I already had a car loan & no offers yet from other companies. I was basically working to pay off my car loan. Most of the money I made(I guess i was not that bad in sales as i thought to be) went towards gas & car loan. I was promoted to the next level(level 2 or a 'leadership' level). I was told that now since i was a 'leader', I would have to come in earlier than the rest. I was now leaving home at 6am & returned even later 8.30pm. I worked my xxxx off but wasnt happy at all.

When I became a 'leader', I was told to interview others & was 'trained' on the do's & dont's of interviewing. I was given a list of questions that can be asked & also on how to 'take-charge-of-the-situation' "Jess" also told me that if I get too bored interviewing people, I could always ask people questions about them as people loved to talk about themselves (She also said,"remember when i interviewed you, we didnt have anything in common & yet we could talk for our entire journey to the office?"). I was sick to my stomach & lost all the respect that I had for "Jess" these were a bunch of people teaching other people on how to carry their 'legacy' of interviewing.

i was taught all the 'skills of the trade'told what questions to ask, how to take charge of the interview, how to create an atmosphere of "fear-of-loss" ( and to think that i liked "Jess" & desperately bought a car to get to work for them...foolish me).i hated it.

also, i learnt that the way u get to the 3rd level(manager level) is when you have interviewed & hired an "x" amount of people...Basically, you are judged by how many people you bring in & how quickly you train them to be like you & produce "x" amount of sales a month. nothing short of a 'multi-level marketing' type situation.

when i could no longer take it,i quit my job(if u can call it a job) sold my car & learnt an important lesson in my life(which sadly to say i didnt learn at my university. NEVER TAKE PEOPLE AT FACE VALUE).

Unfortunately, I didnt check these rip off reports. If you are lucky, you get to see some of these rip off reports before you get a chance to make a decision..
************************************************

Did I also mention that MOON WHANG,the owner at maxwell marketing bragged to me about getting new people in. One time, the guy I interviewed, decided not to join the company because I gave him a honest idea of what it would be like..Moon whang just 'ripped-me-off'. he said,"do you have any idea how much it costs me to keep these people walking in through the doors?"...what kind of a owner would be mad at you for telling the truth??!!! Also, when he calls people for the 2nd interview, he doesnt use his real name...He answers the phone as some "andrew" or "john"...he joked about it at leaders meeting...Apparently it makes the interviewee think that he's 'American'...what a joke...

I came across this site just recently. I have filed my own report on Maxwell Makrketing..Just wanted to post it here too so that more number of people will know...
**********************************************
I'm writing this report after I read few other reports about this Company....I guess I'm not as lucky as the other guys who wrote those reports...

ok...so, I was a fresh graduate looking for jobs & I saw the ad on the web.Even though it was not exactly what I wanted to do, I thought I'll give it a try..The first interview lasted about 10 min. I was told that they would get back to me if my resume matched their needs....I got a call the next day & was asked to come in for a second interview. I was told that it would be a full day interview. I didnt have a car & so my friend dropped me off for the interview. I was sent with "Jess" (not her real name..let me spare her the trouble of having her name ripped off on the web) & spent the whole day going business-to-business. She told me that they have a couple of other people who also interviewed for the same position & based on her recommendation they would or would not invite me for a 3rd round of interview. so, naturally i was trying to impress her to get into her good books.

She was fully incharge of the situation & painted a very bright picture of what working in the company would be like...Ofcourse, she was very nice, friendly & easy going..It must have been a good day for her as she made around $150(dont exactly know) that day. She told me that the company pays commission for every sale that she makes.She was extra friendly on the ride back to the office(it was 6 PM...) & I really liked her. She told me that since I didnt own a car, it was a major drawback for me & asked me to get back to her when I have a car.

I waited for a few days & when I didnt hear from any other companies, I went ahead & called "Jess" & told her that I was planning on buying a car if I had an offer from the company(foolish me...little did i know that i was to regreat it later). I thought that i might as well as work at maxwell until

I get other job offers (also, i might also gain some experience). She called me for a 3rd interview & again my friend dropped me off...The interview hardly lasted 5 min(i was sure it was 3min)...& was conducted by Mr. Moon chang..i was told that i could join the next day or as soon as i have the car ready.

I started working there soon & gradually realised that it was not exactly as the way "Jess" put it for me...I left home at 6.30am & returned by 8pm...By then, I already had a car loan & no offers yet from other companies. I was basically working to pay off my car loan. Most of the money I made(I guess i was not that bad in sales as i thought to be) went towards gas & car loan. I was promoted to the next level(level 2 or a 'leadership' level). I was told that now since i was a 'leader', I would have to come in earlier than the rest. I was now leaving home at 6am & returned even later 8.30pm. I worked my xxxx off but wasnt happy at all.

When I became a 'leader', I was told to interview others & was 'trained' on the do's & dont's of interviewing. I was given a list of questions that can be asked & also on how to 'take-charge-of-the-situation' "Jess" also told me that if I get too bored interviewing people, I could always ask people questions about them as people loved to talk about themselves (She also said,"remember when i interviewed you, we didnt have anything in common & yet we could talk for our entire journey to the office?"). I was sick to my stomach & lost all the respect that I had for "Jess" these were a bunch of people teaching other people on how to carry their 'legacy' of interviewing.

i was taught all the 'skills of the trade'told what questions to ask, how to take charge of the interview, how to create an atmosphere of "fear-of-loss" ( and to think that i liked "Jess" & desperately bought a car to get to work for them...foolish me).i hated it.

also, i learnt that the way u get to the 3rd level(manager level) is when you have interviewed & hired an "x" amount of people...Basically, you are judged by how many people you bring in & how quickly you train them to be like you & produce "x" amount of sales a month. nothing short of a 'multi-level marketing' type situation.

when i could no longer take it,i quit my job(if u can call it a job) sold my car & learnt an important lesson in my life(which sadly to say i didnt learn at my university. NEVER TAKE PEOPLE AT FACE VALUE).

Unfortunately, I didnt check these rip off reports. If you are lucky, you get to see some of these rip off reports before you get a chance to make a decision..
************************************************

Did I also mention that MOON WHANG,the owner at maxwell marketing bragged to me about getting new people in. One time, the guy I interviewed, decided not to join the company because I gave him a honest idea of what it would be like..Moon whang just 'ripped-me-off'. he said,"do you have any idea how much it costs me to keep these people walking in through the doors?"...what kind of a owner would be mad at you for telling the truth??!!! Also, when he calls people for the 2nd interview, he doesnt use his real name...He answers the phone as some "andrew" or "john"...he joked about it at leaders meeting...Apparently it makes the interviewee think that he's 'American'...what a joke...

I came across this site just recently. I have filed my own report on Maxwell Makrketing..Just wanted to post it here too so that more number of people will know...
**********************************************
I'm writing this report after I read few other reports about this Company....I guess I'm not as lucky as the other guys who wrote those reports...

ok...so, I was a fresh graduate looking for jobs & I saw the ad on the web.Even though it was not exactly what I wanted to do, I thought I'll give it a try..The first interview lasted about 10 min. I was told that they would get back to me if my resume matched their needs....I got a call the next day & was asked to come in for a second interview. I was told that it would be a full day interview. I didnt have a car & so my friend dropped me off for the interview. I was sent with "Jess" (not her real name..let me spare her the trouble of having her name ripped off on the web) & spent the whole day going business-to-business. She told me that they have a couple of other people who also interviewed for the same position & based on her recommendation they would or would not invite me for a 3rd round of interview. so, naturally i was trying to impress her to get into her good books.

She was fully incharge of the situation & painted a very bright picture of what working in the company would be like...Ofcourse, she was very nice, friendly & easy going..It must have been a good day for her as she made around $150(dont exactly know) that day. She told me that the company pays commission for every sale that she makes.She was extra friendly on the ride back to the office(it was 6 PM...) & I really liked her. She told me that since I didnt own a car, it was a major drawback for me & asked me to get back to her when I have a car.

I waited for a few days & when I didnt hear from any other companies, I went ahead & called "Jess" & told her that I was planning on buying a car if I had an offer from the company(foolish me...little did i know that i was to regreat it later). I thought that i might as well as work at maxwell until

I get other job offers (also, i might also gain some experience). She called me for a 3rd interview & again my friend dropped me off...The interview hardly lasted 5 min(i was sure it was 3min)...& was conducted by Mr. Moon chang..i was told that i could join the next day or as soon as i have the car ready.

I started working there soon & gradually realised that it was not exactly as the way "Jess" put it for me...I left home at 6.30am & returned by 8pm...By then, I already had a car loan & no offers yet from other companies. I was basically working to pay off my car loan. Most of the money I made(I guess i was not that bad in sales as i thought to be) went towards gas & car loan. I was promoted to the next level(level 2 or a 'leadership' level). I was told that now since i was a 'leader', I would have to come in earlier than the rest. I was now leaving home at 6am & returned even later 8.30pm. I worked my xxxx off but wasnt happy at all.

When I became a 'leader', I was told to interview others & was 'trained' on the do's & dont's of interviewing. I was given a list of questions that can be asked & also on how to 'take-charge-of-the-situation' "Jess" also told me that if I get too bored interviewing people, I could always ask people questions about them as people loved to talk about themselves (She also said,"remember when i interviewed you, we didnt have anything in common & yet we could talk for our entire journey to the office?"). I was sick to my stomach & lost all the respect that I had for "Jess" these were a bunch of people teaching other people on how to carry their 'legacy' of interviewing.

i was taught all the 'skills of the trade'told what questions to ask, how to take charge of the interview, how to create an atmosphere of "fear-of-loss" ( and to think that i liked "Jess" & desperately bought a car to get to work for them...foolish me).i hated it.

also, i learnt that the way u get to the 3rd level(manager level) is when you have interviewed & hired an "x" amount of people...Basically, you are judged by how many people you bring in & how quickly you train them to be like you & produce "x" amount of sales a month. nothing short of a 'multi-level marketing' type situation.

when i could no longer take it,i quit my job(if u can call it a job) sold my car & learnt an important lesson in my life(which sadly to say i didnt learn at my university. NEVER TAKE PEOPLE AT FACE VALUE).

Unfortunately, I didnt check these rip off reports. If you are lucky, you get to see some of these rip off reports before you get a chance to make a decision..
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Did I also mention that MOON WHANG,the owner at maxwell marketing bragged to me about getting new people in. One time, the guy I interviewed, decided not to join the company because I gave him a honest idea of what it would be like..Moon whang just 'ripped-me-off'. he said,"do you have any idea how much it costs me to keep these people walking in through the doors?"...what kind of a owner would be mad at you for telling the truth??!!! Also, when he calls people for the 2nd interview, he doesnt use his real name...He answers the phone as some "andrew" or "john"...he joked about it at leaders meeting...Apparently it makes the interviewee think that he's 'American'...what a joke...

This company is a scam. I worked for Cydcor for about 3 days, a few months back. Funny story, I ran into one of my fellow co-workers who had been there for a few months. He said that after I quit, people began to quit consecutively, including him. He told me to look it up myself on google for the reason he had quit, so I did. I mention this story because I knew something was fishy about this "company" yet blacked-out the bad experience all together until now. It is so funny hearing about the 3 room offices with the cheerful, well-endowed secretary and the catch phrases because they are completely true.

And to the supporters of this company; have you noticed that you along with the other owners all spout the same nonsense? Basically, you talk up your company, directly insult others who talk bad about it, say we shouldn't directly insult the company (double-standard), then talk about how you are making tons of money and that we are losers. Or something to that degree; I really had a hard time deciphering this load of nonsensical rubbish.

I also liked how much you guys value people in your "people" business here because when a teammate has a bad attitude one day out of 500 days, you guys give them moral support instead of cutting them from the business...oh wait that didn't happen.

Potential employees: don't waste your time.

SF Marketing, South San Francisco
On-Track Marketing, Pleasanton, CA

I had interviewed with both places and their offices were strange.. Two-three person runned operation out of an office space.

Every person who explains their situation throughout this website with these pyramid schemes will in return, continually recieve critisism from these "juice" supporters.

I for one am so sick of their repetitive comback..."FAILURES". Who the hell are you idiots calling failures? Look in the freaking mirror. You are so obsessed with this false "opportunity" that just to reassure yourselves that this is what you really want, you go around naysaying those of us who were sane enough to catch on the whole pyramid idea from the very beginning.

Do us all a favor... Kiss our asses. We don't give a rat's a*s about what you have to say. To the majority of us who actually have careers and an education, your speeches mean absolutely nothing!!!

I was the administrator for one of these offices a while ago and I saw a whole lot( innovage corperations: they sell random merchandise). Not only with mine but all of the offices on the west coast. I saw the names of all the owners, where they were located, and what they made every week... I know that the majority of you people make jack s**t. I also knew the majority of them on a personal level.

In the end this is how my office worked. Now like I said, this is just how the office that I worked in ran things, I am not stating that all other businesses run the same.

First the owner orders a bunch of random merchandise, i.e.; puzzlebooks, lotion, irons, backpacks, watches,etc... For a "wholesale" price.
For instance; the largest item costs $6.12...now that is also without tax. Innovage taxed our corp. 3.5%. that would make the total for this item out to be $6.33.

Next, he the owner decides the distributor's cost which for this amount would be around $8 to $9. Then he tells them during their morning pep rally that they will be selling them for $10 to $12. Thats $3 maximum profit per item.

Now, when the distributor comes back from a9 hour day he gets "settled up". These distributors don't realize that the owners have already taken taxes out when the distributors have charged all of their customers 7% tax. Half of that is given to the owner and the other half is pocketed by the distributor.

A distributors return is less than 25% of the total sale. Now if a guy has a "good" day he did about $300 in business. That would equal about $75 in profit. Now multiply this by 6 days a week and you come up with $450. Divide this by 60 hours per week and you come up with $7.50.

Mind you, after $40 for a weeks worth of gas, $45 for a weeks worth of fast food you are left with $365 and that is equal to about $6.08 an hour. And remember, this is if you do at least $300 a day.

Now for all of you idiots that call people who have real jobs that give you a real paycheck, failures, shut the hell up. Failures of what??? Failures because we don't have criminal records that prevent us from getting a real job? Are we failures because we don't want to spend 75% of our time walking around aimlessly peddling worthless s**t to poor unsuspecting individuals? Are we failures because we actually caught on to the scam before YOU and then quickly left it? Are we failures because we have high goals in life far above the degradation of being a D2D or B2B peddler? Or do you call us failures because you envy us???

We go to work for 8 hour days and 40 hour weeks. We recieve paychecks steadily. We know that we will always have time for friends and family. We know that we will always have a permenant place to live. We know that we will be able to put food on the table. We know that we can afford to own a car.

Really what I want to know is... WHAT DO ALL OF YOU KNOW???????

Get a grip on reality and start looking for steady paying jobs you morons!! Otherwise you are just going to keep digging yourself deeper and deeper until you have ultimately burried yourself.

First off, all the other cydcor entries are 100% true! believe what you are reading. this company is a scam in every way imaginable. The list of grievances that i have with cydcor and their offices could go on for pages. What company in the world forces their "leaders" to pay for interviewees' lunch as well as paying the people that they train out of their own pocket.

I worked for a cydcor office for about 6 months and was then moved across the country for the "opportunity". I also footed the bill for it...which was not brought to my attention!

But i was also in a unique position of being able to see what goes on behinds the scenes. And the truth is ... It only gets worse as you move up - including management. After all the hard work and effort to get your "opportunity" you're rewarded by even longer hours, still meager paychecks, and a ton of financial liability. Does anyone else find it suspicious that they let you OWN your company. That is because you become the one that is liable. Yet Cydcor still can control everything about your business - including shutting you down!

Now i think its time we do the same! They have lied to and scammed too many good people and that needs to stop. And there is a good way to start doing that...

The main reason a company like this thrives is because they can continually recruit new suckers to replace the ones that are always leaving. By eliminating their presence on job boards - it will crush their recruiting and shut them down.

Cydcor and their offices have already been threatened by monster.com to pull their job postings due to their deception. "competitive benefits package"... please! Mr. Wiggens and some other higher beings have been getting on managers hard lately about making sure they treat people better on interviews because they were complaining to monster.

Without Monster, Careerbuilder and other job boards - they know they are sunk. So if you want to help save other people from this aweful company - file complaints with Monster and others about their untruthful job postings and your undoubtedly bad experience. If everyone who reads this board sends a complaint about cydcor & their affiliates - i'm sure we could shut them down!

Johannes, what was the office name you worked for in FL and who was the Manager?

I decided to leave the job because it did not really match what I wanted to do or my personality. I believe you can be successful in this job, making very good money, if you have the personality traits needed for it. I saw that those who were the most outgoing and persistent, above a cutoff in intelligence (say, an IQ of 110), were able to consistently make the sales.

I also found out that you get medical and dental benefits after 2 months, just to correct what I wrote before.

Again, I decided to leave the job and was free to do so. No one forced me to stay, although I was urged to stick it out a little longer. I do not feel as though I was brainwashed, nor am I angry with anyone. I was just not meant to be a salesman, or at least the type of salesman Cydcor wanted me to be. I was not a born hustler like some other guys.

Where else could those without a college degree make 40 to 50k starting off? Where else could someone without a solid education make it to assistant management in just a few months? Some people were meant for this job. I was not.

If I were a really outgoing person this just would be great for me. But I am not outgoing. Those who are extroverts and don't have a very solid educational background should consider a job like this. I have seen some people do really well, starting from scratch.

I don't think Cydcor is the best company out there, but I don't think it's the worst either.

I know that you say that this company is only 10 years old, and I mean that makes sense, on their website, it says they were established in 1994. "CYDCOR, established in 1994, is the largest face-to-face customer acquisition company in North America and around the world." Now the question I have to ask is, if the founder Avie Roth started in Canada selling I think it was like pots from SEARS door to door, and that eventually blossomed into Cydcor, around how many years ago was that. 15 maybe even 20 years ago. Now if you look at Avie Roth, you would think that if he had started this business, he would most likely be much younger. That's just my own personal opinion.

Ask yourself as you spend more and more time there is there ever a time when you feel like you are being misleading to potential entry-levels, or even "Day's of O." By this I mean being urged to withold information. Now remember you are supposed to encourage them to ask questions because with any job or career, that shows interest. Ask them what they know about the company and what they learned from the first interview. Ask them if they had a first interview with another person sitting there. Now this again may be my personal opinion, but it does not seem professional to have a non-company person sitting in a room while you discuss your personal information with a manager.

Now if you are told to withhold how the payment system works, you should ask yourself if that benefits the person more or the company. I mean if the person is going to be discouraged by the simple fact of 100% commission, than he wasn't going to be that good for the company anyway, so why would it matter. Start asking yourself why it is important to never have anything negative to say about the business, your day, your life, etc. I understand that you don't want to bring down the morale of the office, but absolutely nothing negative, that is an extreme. Negative like positive things happen in life, and to completely cut it out can have long term effects on morale anyway. If you aren't getting any health benefits, ask yourself how sure you are that you will NEVER get sick. Remember you are out going business to business everyday regardless of weather conditions.

These are just certain things that I want you to ponder because I was all for the company to and only stumbled upon this site after I had quit because of my ethical conflicts. I leave you with a link to another site made by somebody who wanted to give a more in depth overview of Cydcor than anybody I have seen on this site, hopefully the editor will allow it. http://wolfram.org/scam/ds_max/
Good luck in whatever you do, and don't be surprised if after somebody leaves, they are encouraged to be totally cut off from the office no matter how close they seemed to people.

Jessica:

Like I said, I have just started working for the company. When the money starts coming in I will (if you want) start breaking it down into how much I make an hour. I am curious about how this company works, and I am neither for nor against those who claim to have been victimized by the company. I should point out that regardless of the outcome, it was my choice to join the company, and should I feel it to be taking advantage of me or abusing me too much I can always leave. Right now I see a very positive environment that can help me professionally and personally.

You point out that the average rookie owner's salary is $30,000, but keep in mind that most small businesses take YEARS to earn a profit. So whether or not that is "successful" is somewhat subjective. Come to think about it, it's not so bad compared to what most business owners go through initially.

Because most offices will be dependent on having a sales force, and because most who start work will not likely become managers, I can see how certain claims by the company regarding advancement possibilities could be seen as hype. On the other hand, Cydcor is only 10 years old, which makes it a very (very!) young company, so if the company (like many others) has aggressive expansion plans it has no choice but to start looking hard for managers wherever it can, thus giving those who come in with motivation and determination a better chance. The chance might even be better than 1%, especially if the company screens applicants (which occurs at my office).

In any case, if there were no possibility of advancement and the failure rate were too high, there would be no way to hide such defects from aspiring managers, thus poisoning the corporate environment. Cydcor employees may not be the brightest employees in the world (maybe some of the hi-tech companies have them), but they are not the dumbest, either. To some extent, they look at the environment around them and assess what the possibilities are each and every day.

Johannes:

Have you figured out that based on your earnings and the number of hours you work, what is the hourly rate? That hourly rate has no health benefits. And because it is based on commission, Labor Day is a unpaid holiday.

Yes, you should be concerned that only 1% makes it to management. You should also be concerned with the percentage of management which turned out to be successful.

Jessica - Miami, Florida.

Jessica:

When it comes down to it of course the owner will make money off of sales, but the more people within the office are promoted to management the more the owner makes in overrides. It is in the interest of the owner to see us succeed.

In my office I know at least several people who are (in my opinion) making a killing. The owner is very wealthy, which goes against the naysayers here who repeatedly insist no one becomes extremely wealthy in the business but those at the top (ie. corporate founders).

Like I said, I will be happy making 40 or 50k, and I know at least a couple in my office making more than that.

My only concern is that 1% make it to management, but for those who dream of being managers it's worth a shot. Of course there is never any guarantee of profitability with ownership, but there is, with hard work, potential to make very good money (from what I have seen, as opposed to what people post). Of course, I am glad to have seen other opinions here, and it has opened my eyes.

My impression is that some people are so bitter over their experience that they want to tarnish the reputation of Cydcor or not make any concessions in a debate over the company. Perhaps they were abused in their particular situation, even horribly. I too would feel bad about working 60 to 70 hours a week, and losing my weekends (which is not the case for me), and finding out over time that it was all for naught.

I also think it's a little silly to claim that Cydcor, or whatever its manifestations at a local level, is a cult. I have only been with the company for a short while, and most of the time I have actually spent on the field, practicing my sales and pitch. I haven't had that much time nor opportunity to be brainwashed. However, of the time I have spent with the company, I feel it's absurd to compare it to a brainwashing camp of some sort.

What I see in Cydcor that is an advantage (for me at least) is that it provides an environment of mutual support and reinforcement. This is in contrast to other environments where there is internal competition for limited benefits due to corporate cuts and layoffs.

It also concerns me that I get no health or insurance benefits of any kind, but that goes with the territory, something I agreed to by getting hired, and if I make as much as some of my colleagues eventually that won't be an issue for me as far as affordability.

First off, Johannes, you were not hired by Cydcor. You were hired by an ICL.

"Where I work we do not work weekends, and the emphasis is not on selling so much as building leadership skills to *potentially* manage a business."

Does your company make money by selling or by building leadership skills?

"I would like to at least become an assistant manager or at least make 40-50k, which I know some in the office are making."

Rookie owners make an average of $30,000 a year.

I just want to say that I just got hired by Cydcor. I have been there for a short while so I am glad to hear the other side of the story. I appreciate the information given by everyone.

Obviously, every office is different, because some of the complaints posted here do not apply to my office. Where I work we do not work weekends, and the emphasis is not on selling so much as building leadership skills to *potentially* manage a business. Of course, not everyone can be a manager, logic and facts dictate this, but I have seen individuals rise up in the company and do well. In my office the owner has done very well and has set an example for all of us.

I will tread through this experience cautiously. If I see myself hitting too many roadblocks or fail to see advancement I will know it's not for me (at least for the long-term). I do, however, intend to stick it out for a while, to build my sales and managerial skills. Any money I make along the way is a bonus.

I would like to at least become an assistant manager or at least make 40-50k, which I know some in the office are making. We do subcontracting work for a very reputable company in our area, so what we offer to local businesses is entirely legitimate.

I will report back as time goes on about my experience, so as to provide some balance. I am neither for nor against anyone here; I merely want to give a new perspective and voice to the debate.

After working for a Cydcor subsidiary for almost five months, I left yesterday. My reason: my car broke down, and it's going to take more to repair or replace it than I have. Without a car, obviously, a job like this is impossible (or at least highly difficult) to do.

Did my leaving have anything to do with dissatisfaction with the company? No. Do I feel like the owner, my leader, or the other leaders lied to me? Not at all. From the very beginning, they were upfront about the fact that it was a commission-only sales job, and that while yes, there was great opportunity, it was just that: opportunity. They were clear on the fact that the work was very hard, and not always fun (although I usually found ways to have fun with it), and that of all the people who came into the business, maybe 1% would make it into management. Hell, anyone with halfway decent math skills could figure that out. I went into the business with my eyes open, knowing it was a risk but choosing to take it. I believed in my own abilities. As I said, it hasn't worked out - it took me longer than I'd hoped to master the sales model, so I didn't get to save much, and then the whole car situation came up. But that wasn't the company's fault - I've seen people come in with no more experience than me and make $1000/wk from the get-go. (No lie. A girl who started the same day as me, under the same leader, did it.) I just had to get over some natural shyness.

I'd like to address some things people have been saying. First of all: while I understand that no one can say with absolute assurance "No, I haven't been brainwashed," I don't feel like I have been. Again, everyone was very open and honest with me. Yes, morning meetings were loud and exuberant, for which I was actually pretty grateful. Not being a morning person, getting surrounded by that much energy made it so much easier to go out to the field in a good mood - and it's accurate, if you're in a good mood in the field you'll make more money. It's not some weird mind-control technique to enforce certain emotions, it's just the way human nature works: people are drawn to happy people. Anyplace that deals with the public, whether it's sales, customer service, or whatever, will tell you the same thing. The difference between this job and the last place I worked was, the other place just told me to be in a good mood, while the Cydcor office had a tool in place to help me do so.

I also hear people complaining about long work weeks. Yes, I worked about a 60-hr week. Most serious career-oriented jobs will have you working that much - putting in extra hours, etc., because you are trying to improve and move up in the company. I took this job specifically because I was tired of "quick-fix" jobs - the idea of putting in a lot of work towards something I could do for years appealed to me. Yes, it took time away from family and friends, but I still managed to have a life outside of work - and, again, anyone who is serious about their career is going to have to balance their time some. This isn't a Cydcor-only problem.

Finally, I can't help but be amused by the people who seem to think that the door-to-door or business-to-business sales model is itself the devil incarnate. Maybe I have a different perspective, being raised by a man who for most of his life worked in sales, but I really don't see it as being that strange. My father always taught me, as long as you're honest with your customers and you're selling a product you can stand behind, there's nothing wrong with sales. The client I represented was reputable, our prices were fair, and I was always honest with the customer about what I was doing and what the benefit to them would be. For every person who got irritated with me for "bothering" them, there were, on average, 5-10 people who would genuinely thank me for coming in.

In essence, I'm not sorry in the least that I worked there. It taught me some valuable things about myself, it made me infinitely more assertive and confident, and it gave me good experience. If circumstances were different, I would love to stay there. No, it's not for everyone. But it's not a bad company because of that.

After working for a Cydcor subsidiary for almost five months, I left yesterday. My reason: my car broke down, and it's going to take more to repair or replace it than I have. Without a car, obviously, a job like this is impossible (or at least highly difficult) to do.

Did my leaving have anything to do with dissatisfaction with the company? No. Do I feel like the owner, my leader, or the other leaders lied to me? Not at all. From the very beginning, they were upfront about the fact that it was a commission-only sales job, and that while yes, there was great opportunity, it was just that: opportunity. They were clear on the fact that the work was very hard, and not always fun (although I usually found ways to have fun with it), and that of all the people who came into the business, maybe 1% would make it into management. Hell, anyone with halfway decent math skills could figure that out. I went into the business with my eyes open, knowing it was a risk but choosing to take it. I believed in my own abilities. As I said, it hasn't worked out - it took me longer than I'd hoped to master the sales model, so I didn't get to save much, and then the whole car situation came up. But that wasn't the company's fault - I've seen people come in with no more experience than me and make $1000/wk from the get-go. (No lie. A girl who started the same day as me, under the same leader, did it.) I just had to get over some natural shyness.

I'd like to address some things people have been saying. First of all: while I understand that no one can say with absolute assurance "No, I haven't been brainwashed," I don't feel like I have been. Again, everyone was very open and honest with me. Yes, morning meetings were loud and exuberant, for which I was actually pretty grateful. Not being a morning person, getting surrounded by that much energy made it so much easier to go out to the field in a good mood - and it's accurate, if you're in a good mood in the field you'll make more money. It's not some weird mind-control technique to enforce certain emotions, it's just the way human nature works: people are drawn to happy people. Anyplace that deals with the public, whether it's sales, customer service, or whatever, will tell you the same thing. The difference between this job and the last place I worked was, the other place just told me to be in a good mood, while the Cydcor office had a tool in place to help me do so.

I also hear people complaining about long work weeks. Yes, I worked about a 60-hr week. Most serious career-oriented jobs will have you working that much - putting in extra hours, etc., because you are trying to improve and move up in the company. I took this job specifically because I was tired of "quick-fix" jobs - the idea of putting in a lot of work towards something I could do for years appealed to me. Yes, it took time away from family and friends, but I still managed to have a life outside of work - and, again, anyone who is serious about their career is going to have to balance their time some. This isn't a Cydcor-only problem.

Finally, I can't help but be amused by the people who seem to think that the door-to-door or business-to-business sales model is itself the devil incarnate. Maybe I have a different perspective, being raised by a man who for most of his life worked in sales, but I really don't see it as being that strange. My father always taught me, as long as you're honest with your customers and you're selling a product you can stand behind, there's nothing wrong with sales. The client I represented was reputable, our prices were fair, and I was always honest with the customer about what I was doing and what the benefit to them would be. For every person who got irritated with me for "bothering" them, there were, on average, 5-10 people who would genuinely thank me for coming in.

In essence, I'm not sorry in the least that I worked there. It taught me some valuable things about myself, it made me infinitely more assertive and confident, and it gave me good experience. If circumstances were different, I would love to stay there. No, it's not for everyone. But it's not a bad company because of that.

After working for a Cydcor subsidiary for almost five months, I left yesterday. My reason: my car broke down, and it's going to take more to repair or replace it than I have. Without a car, obviously, a job like this is impossible (or at least highly difficult) to do.

Did my leaving have anything to do with dissatisfaction with the company? No. Do I feel like the owner, my leader, or the other leaders lied to me? Not at all. From the very beginning, they were upfront about the fact that it was a commission-only sales job, and that while yes, there was great opportunity, it was just that: opportunity. They were clear on the fact that the work was very hard, and not always fun (although I usually found ways to have fun with it), and that of all the people who came into the business, maybe 1% would make it into management. Hell, anyone with halfway decent math skills could figure that out. I went into the business with my eyes open, knowing it was a risk but choosing to take it. I believed in my own abilities. As I said, it hasn't worked out - it took me longer than I'd hoped to master the sales model, so I didn't get to save much, and then the whole car situation came up. But that wasn't the company's fault - I've seen people come in with no more experience than me and make $1000/wk from the get-go. (No lie. A girl who started the same day as me, under the same leader, did it.) I just had to get over some natural shyness.

I'd like to address some things people have been saying. First of all: while I understand that no one can say with absolute assurance "No, I haven't been brainwashed," I don't feel like I have been. Again, everyone was very open and honest with me. Yes, morning meetings were loud and exuberant, for which I was actually pretty grateful. Not being a morning person, getting surrounded by that much energy made it so much easier to go out to the field in a good mood - and it's accurate, if you're in a good mood in the field you'll make more money. It's not some weird mind-control technique to enforce certain emotions, it's just the way human nature works: people are drawn to happy people. Anyplace that deals with the public, whether it's sales, customer service, or whatever, will tell you the same thing. The difference between this job and the last place I worked was, the other place just told me to be in a good mood, while the Cydcor office had a tool in place to help me do so.

I also hear people complaining about long work weeks. Yes, I worked about a 60-hr week. Most serious career-oriented jobs will have you working that much - putting in extra hours, etc., because you are trying to improve and move up in the company. I took this job specifically because I was tired of "quick-fix" jobs - the idea of putting in a lot of work towards something I could do for years appealed to me. Yes, it took time away from family and friends, but I still managed to have a life outside of work - and, again, anyone who is serious about their career is going to have to balance their time some. This isn't a Cydcor-only problem.

Finally, I can't help but be amused by the people who seem to think that the door-to-door or business-to-business sales model is itself the devil incarnate. Maybe I have a different perspective, being raised by a man who for most of his life worked in sales, but I really don't see it as being that strange. My father always taught me, as long as you're honest with your customers and you're selling a product you can stand behind, there's nothing wrong with sales. The client I represented was reputable, our prices were fair, and I was always honest with the customer about what I was doing and what the benefit to them would be. For every person who got irritated with me for "bothering" them, there were, on average, 5-10 people who would genuinely thank me for coming in.

In essence, I'm not sorry in the least that I worked there. It taught me some valuable things about myself, it made me infinitely more assertive and confident, and it gave me good experience. If circumstances were different, I would love to stay there. No, it's not for everyone. But it's not a bad company because of that.

I keep reading that you don't know another company that will give you an equal opportunity to make money and how you are happy to bust your a*s. That's great you are willing to bust your a*s, but if you did a little research you would know that there are many opportunities out there if you want to be in sales. Maybe it's time to give your a*s a break.

First of all, if you are going to work on commission alone, you can get a job in hundreds of places. They have nothing to lose--they aren't paying you! Generally, though, if you are working on straight commission with a reputable company, your percentage is much higher to compensate for having no salary. Having said that, most reputable companies will at least offer you benefits, and many will give you a base salary.

It is also true that you are learning by being out in the field, but really, you can do that on your own. A good company will back you up with real training with proven, and honest, sales strategies and methods. They will also usually keep you updated with advances in the field through seminars and various other events centered around professional development.

Next, for as many hours as you a*s-busters are working, you should be making a lot more money. $40,000.00 is nothing for the effort and hours you are putting in; you should be making at least(the very least) twice that much.

So, to all of you who do not know of a better opportunity to make money, do yourselves a favor and look around. Find a company that has products you can be proud of, a situation that will make you want to leave your business card with people(ever heard of referrals?) and with whom you might actually get some benefits and have a life. They don't even need to be hiring, after all, you are willing to work for commission only. As long as you aren't a total slob who will ruin their reputation, they have nothing to lose. You, on the other hand, have a whole lot to gain--a life, for example.

Good Luck!

Please excuse the typos and spelling mistakes, but I have been up all night reading complaints against these companies and trying to get the warning out about our local versions of this cancer.

First I would like to say thank you to all the people who have filed reports here and elsewhere on the Net about this group.

I recently began job hunting in Miami, and I decided to post a preliminary draft of my resume on sites like Monster, Careerbuilder, etc. to see if I would get any response while I was reworking my resume and doing the typical job hunting research. Within 12 hours of posting I received responses from 3 companies: Pro Marketing Group, The Niko Group, and Miami Marketing Works. When I took a look at their ads and called to speak with the companies, I was immediately struck by a few observations, most notably:

- All the ads were remarkably similar
-They all encouraged those with no experience to
apply and and seemed to almost (very subtly) discourage
responses from experienced canidates
-They all boasted of having Fortune 500 companies as clients,
but did not give any real information in their ads or on the
phone (vague job descriptions, no specification of the
company's actually operations)
-They were all in an incredible rush to interview me

I told one company that I couldn't come in for an interview until later in the week, and they said that would be too late, someone would be hired by then. I told them sorry, but it was impossible and wished them luck. Several hours later they called with a change of heart and scheduled the interview with me.

By this point, the alarm bells were ringing in the back of my mind. They were way too desperate and way too vague. I figured I'd still go to the interview for some practice, though, so I started to do some company research. The only problem was, there was no information on these companies in the normal places--better business bureau, local business rags, and so on. I decided to check out their ads again via a Monster search. I then discovered how many ads they had placed, especially in the headings that were not sales or marketing. Then I started doing phone number searches in reverse directories, and it turned out that 2 of the 3 companies were listed under other business names and all had only been in business for a year. I checked other job sites and found other similar ads by different companies. One particular company, R3, had the same phone number as Pro Marketing Group!

By now it has become obvious that something shady is going on and that the only reason to go to any of these interviews is to warn other people. I decide to do a little more digging and that is when I discovered these postings and quite a few other sites with the dirt from former employees. I have now confirmed that R3, PMG, and the Niko Group are definately one of these DS Max affiliates, and there is about a 95% chance the other company is too. It does not take that much common sense to realize that people should stay away from these organizations.

There are many, many branches of this group, and I do not doubt that there are good people involved, nor that a few (very, very few) are able to achieve the dream, but it is impossible to argue with so many charges. I must wonder why some of you even try. Even in a large organization of stellar reputation there is bound to be a few miscreants, and most employees realize this and would not defend them. In fact most people who are happy with their jobs don't feel the need to defend it at all. So my question to those defenders of the many faces of DS Max and Cydcor is what are you so afraid of? Or, what is it you have to lose? Or, how could you possibly think that you know what happens in every faction of this extended group? And finally, how do you think 3 or 4 people can successfully discount over a hundred (yes, over 100--do your homework!) testimonies of deception and other misconduct?

To the rest of you, question, question, and then ask more questions. It is amazing to me how many people were manipulated by such a transparent gimmick. This just supports my premise that the most imminent danger to our society is a lack of independent and critical thought. Please do not think I am insulting anybody who was taken in by these people. I am just trying to make the point that we all need to be aware and attempt a little critical thinking. Especially in the US, where we are taught to regurgitate information instead of examine it.

To everyone who is regretting their involvement with the DS Max extended family, don't waste your energy on regret--just learn from the experience. Thanks for warning the rest of us and keep spreading the word. Those of you loving the company, be honest and demand honesty. Best of luck, you'll probably need it.

Making big bucks undeniably takes big work, but rest assured, there are definately better alternatives than the DS Max (and family) way.

Hey, I read a bunch of responses from the guys from HAMILTON, ONTARIO (Example Jason)

I saw the date you posted and realized. I got sent out to help replace the office you guys had.
I heard from ex employees in Hamilton when they saw me they filled me in on the dirt that happened.

I was told that the manager of the Hamilton office went bankrupt and couldnt pay his workers. Isnt that funny? You guys bragging about how great it is and THEN getting cheques bounce! I feel sorry for you because I was pro-TNI and Pro DSMAX before, and then you realize it all later on. when youre not under constant brainwashing.

I have noticed the people who brag about being great on the field, get so full of themselfs when they go through a bad week it shatters their image and they quit. Or when a manager brags about how great everythng is going for him and then going bankrupt because nobody on the field is performing for him.

Dont get too full of yourself, you will feel like crap afterwards.

Hi im responding to the lady with her husband in DSMAX. Drag him out of that business as soon as possible. My best friend and I joined that business in the winter and we worked together through good and bad. One problem I noticed that he had was that he was married for 3 years before he went into DSMAX-TNI the network inc. (its probably the newest version of DSMAX, with the same high ranking people ina different name)
He was on the job 12 hrs a day and she grew impatient. He went on road trips, and she grew more and more apart with him, not only that he was barely bringing in enough money to really make her happy by helping with bills. Well anyways. He lost his girlfriend and was devastated, but he insisted to himself to keep going in the business. And we helped retain each other when we both felt like quitting. haha, but then we began to train each other in closing and we became the top guys for a while. His leader got promoted to a*s-man. and he was being sent out immediately without being properly trained. The owner offered me and my friend to go to Hamilton Ontario where we would open up a new office for the new manager. We agreed to go, I took 2 of my 4 team guys with me. We got there to have no office as promised. We were told to hold on while they looked for a suitable location. In the mean time we were on the field working our a*s off. New Manager included. We were each told to borrow 1,000 bucks from our family before we left so we had some cash with us. We worked hard for almost 3 months and NOTHING was done to improve our situation. Eventually my pay was diminishing. NOT through me not ringing bell. But because the manager had so many expences to take care of he only gave me a 50 dollar living allowance per week. IMAGINE LIVING OFF OF 50 DOLLARS PER WEEK! especially when you know you made a hell of a lot more than that. same happend to everybody else. including the new manager... Well anyways. We had no idea the office in the Vancouver location was collapsing while we were in Hamilton, that was why we couldnt get our full pay. After we went to hamilton the rest of the crews quit.

It was horrible what happened to me in hamilton, i have never had to go through so much hunger and stress in my whole life. my girlfriend in Vancouver realized what was happening, she flew all the way to Hamilton to throw me on a plane and bring me back home. I WAS LUCKY. Everybody had to leave the city and go back to their families to lick their finanial wounds. I lost a total of at least $3500 (the manager was using my phone to rack up 1000 bill + 1000 loan from mom. and 1000 of savings i lost.

People be aware a new branch of DSMAX is now open with TNI as the name. spread the word. Its still a baby company. It will explode though.

Here is the website adress. www.tninetwork.com

Sorry but my writing isnt excellent. but its true. This company is a huge fraud. the big guys always try to weed out the little guys with the good territory so they make more money.
STEER CLEAR IF YOU ARE NEW OR ARE CONSIDERIGN WORKING FOR ANY OF THESE COMPANIES! SUCCESS RATE IS SLIM AND THEY WONT PROMOTE BASED ON ACTUAL CRITERIA. THEY WILL PROMOTE U FOR PERSONAL REASONS.

Hi im responding to the lady with her husband in DSMAX. Drag him out of that business as soon as possible. My best friend and I joined that business in the winter and we worked together through good and bad. One problem I noticed that he had was that he was married for 3 years before he went into DSMAX-TNI the network inc. (its probably the newest version of DSMAX, with the same high ranking people ina different name)
He was on the job 12 hrs a day and she grew impatient. He went on road trips, and she grew more and more apart with him, not only that he was barely bringing in enough money to really make her happy by helping with bills. Well anyways. He lost his girlfriend and was devastated, but he insisted to himself to keep going in the business. And we helped retain each other when we both felt like quitting. haha, but then we began to train each other in closing and we became the top guys for a while. His leader got promoted to a*s-man. and he was being sent out immediately without being properly trained. The owner offered me and my friend to go to Hamilton Ontario where we would open up a new office for the new manager. We agreed to go, I took 2 of my 4 team guys with me. We got there to have no office as promised. We were told to hold on while they looked for a suitable location. In the mean time we were on the field working our a*s off. New Manager included. We were each told to borrow 1,000 bucks from our family before we left so we had some cash with us. We worked hard for almost 3 months and NOTHING was done to improve our situation. Eventually my pay was diminishing. NOT through me not ringing bell. But because the manager had so many expences to take care of he only gave me a 50 dollar living allowance per week. IMAGINE LIVING OFF OF 50 DOLLARS PER WEEK! especially when you know you made a hell of a lot more than that. same happend to everybody else. including the new manager... Well anyways. We had no idea the office in the Vancouver location was collapsing while we were in Hamilton, that was why we couldnt get our full pay. After we went to hamilton the rest of the crews quit.

It was horrible what happened to me in hamilton, i have never had to go through so much hunger and stress in my whole life. my girlfriend in Vancouver realized what was happening, she flew all the way to Hamilton to throw me on a plane and bring me back home. I WAS LUCKY. Everybody had to leave the city and go back to their families to lick their finanial wounds. I lost a total of at least $3500 (the manager was using my phone to rack up 1000 bill + 1000 loan from mom. and 1000 of savings i lost.

People be aware a new branch of DSMAX is now open with TNI as the name. spread the word. Its still a baby company. It will explode though.

Here is the website adress. www.tninetwork.com

Sorry but my writing isnt excellent. but its true. This company is a huge fraud. the big guys always try to weed out the little guys with the good territory so they make more money.
STEER CLEAR IF YOU ARE NEW OR ARE CONSIDERIGN WORKING FOR ANY OF THESE COMPANIES! SUCCESS RATE IS SLIM AND THEY WONT PROMOTE BASED ON ACTUAL CRITERIA. THEY WILL PROMOTE U FOR PERSONAL REASONS.

I was searching for a part time job on Monster.com for some extra money, and found positions at Kinetic Solutios, Inc. I applied and was contacted the next day for an interview. This particular company was based in Powell, Ohio.

I went in for an interview the next week. It was your basic first interview, a lot of personality and work etic questions. He specified it was an account management/marketing position for a large and well known office supply company. They also dealt with a local Cable company.

After the 1st interview I was called back for a 2nd interview the next day. They told me to block off 9:00 am to 5:15 pm.

I walked into the office in professional attire and was introduced to an employee that was going to take me to meet some "clients".

We ended up driving about an hour and fifteen minutes outside of Columbus, Ohio to meet with these "clients". On the way down the employee explained to me what the job ws all about. Basically going business to business trying to sell ofice supplies.

At this point I wanted to tell this guy to turn around and take me back to my car. I decided to give it a chance, and boy was that a mistake.

He drove me around for 6 or 7 hours trying to sell office supplies to small businesses. Walking into businesses without appointments, basically interrupting their employees while trying to work.

This guy was so desperate for a sale that he actually grabbed for an invoice sitting on this ladies desk to show them how much they would save buying form him. Thankfully the lady snatched it up before he had a chance to get it.I was livid at this point

At the end of the day the employee of Kinetic Solutions made one sale, about $490.00 worth of office supplies. He made around $100.00 for the sale.

About this Job:

1. Comission based only (you don't sell, you don't eat)
Cell Phone is not paid for (which you do use a lot)
2. Pay for your own gas and car
3. It is a door to door sales job (think of the old door to door vaccuum salesmen)
4. You do not have any "real clients". Once you sell to someone you can not go back for at lest 6 months.
They do promise you and deliver quick promotions. This is how it works:

1. Trainee: In training about 4-6 weeks, some peope progress faster, making about 45% commission of sales.
2. Account Manager: Typically lasts 6 months, or until you get enough people underneath you to be promoted to Assistand Manager. You receive 28% comission on sales
3. Assistant Manager: This position is reached once you have your own team. You receive about 1k per week in salary, and are still required to go out in the field at least 2 days a week.
4. Manager: Once you reach this stage, you are set out to run your own office. Basically you are set up in a different city/state to recruit more employees.

Companies that are falling in sales pay these companies to promote thier product door to door offering huge discounts.

These types of companies target people right out of college and high school, promising all this money. Basically telling you that you will be able to retire by the time you are 40. Most of the graduates have never worked in a true business environment, and have no idea how bad these guys are taking advantage of you.

The Manager just sits on his a*s all day, or traveling all over the US on your hard earned dollar.

I remember this guy in college came up to me and asked me if I wanted to be apart of this pyrimid of money with him. He would be at the top of the pyrimid. I would give him $50.00, then I was responsible for recruiting 2 to 4 more people at $50 each and give him half. Then those 2 to 4 people would recruit 2 to 4 more, etc. I looked at him a laughed, what a scam.

That is how I believe this company operates.

I had no idea that there were actually companies out there like this and hope that more young people do not fall into their trap.

i am an ex owner
was with the company for a number of years and came across this website by accident.
it has given me great entertainment to read all of your stories.
I too left because i was sick of promises i knew i couldn'd deliver.
the only way to stop these guys is to kill their recriuting.
you need people at every location telling all potential interviews what goes on before they go in.
no recruiting, means no growth, means no money , means no business.
kill their lifeblood don't just whinge on the internet.

Thank goodness I came across this website in time! I posted my resume on Careerbuilder.com, and was extremely excited to be contacted by Noble Marketing (Cincinnati, Ohio) DK Promotions (Columbus,Ohio), and Kinetic Solutions (Powell, Ohio) After going to all 3 interviews, I noticed some definite similarities, but thought nothing of it.

Each company had a small office, with limited decorations, and a definite lack of personnel. The same person that called me was the one who interviwed me, and I never saw anyone else in the office. They all said the same thing, that it was a "cross training" program for a "management position." The first interviews were very brief, and each company said they'd call back later that evening.

I was called back, and when they said not to wear high heels, I started to wonder why. That's when I started poking around on the internet, and came across this sight. Thank you so much for posting things like this, I just saved myself a trip to Columbus tomorrow, THANK YOU!!!

Thank goodness I came across this website in time! I posted my resume on Careerbuilder.com, and was extremely excited to be contacted by Noble Marketing (Cincinnati, Ohio) DK Promotions (Columbus,Ohio), and Kinetic Solutions (Powell, Ohio) After going to all 3 interviews, I noticed some definite similarities, but thought nothing of it.

Each company had a small office, with limited decorations, and a definite lack of personnel. The same person that called me was the one who interviwed me, and I never saw anyone else in the office. They all said the same thing, that it was a "cross training" program for a "management position." The first interviews were very brief, and each company said they'd call back later that evening.

I was called back, and when they said not to wear high heels, I started to wonder why. That's when I started poking around on the internet, and came across this sight. Thank you so much for posting things like this, I just saved myself a trip to Columbus tomorrow, THANK YOU!!!

Thank goodness I came across this website in time! I posted my resume on Careerbuilder.com, and was extremely excited to be contacted by Noble Marketing (Cincinnati, Ohio) DK Promotions (Columbus,Ohio), and Kinetic Solutions (Powell, Ohio) After going to all 3 interviews, I noticed some definite similarities, but thought nothing of it.

Each company had a small office, with limited decorations, and a definite lack of personnel. The same person that called me was the one who interviwed me, and I never saw anyone else in the office. They all said the same thing, that it was a "cross training" program for a "management position." The first interviews were very brief, and each company said they'd call back later that evening.

I was called back, and when they said not to wear high heels, I started to wonder why. That's when I started poking around on the internet, and came across this sight. Thank you so much for posting things like this, I just saved myself a trip to Columbus tomorrow, THANK YOU!!!

Thank goodness I came across this website in time! I posted my resume on Careerbuilder.com, and was extremely excited to be contacted by Noble Marketing (Cincinnati, Ohio) DK Promotions (Columbus,Ohio), and Kinetic Solutions (Powell, Ohio) After going to all 3 interviews, I noticed some definite similarities, but thought nothing of it.

Each company had a small office, with limited decorations, and a definite lack of personnel. The same person that called me was the one who interviwed me, and I never saw anyone else in the office. They all said the same thing, that it was a "cross training" program for a "management position." The first interviews were very brief, and each company said they'd call back later that evening.

I was called back, and when they said not to wear high heels, I started to wonder why. That's when I started poking around on the internet, and came across this sight. Thank you so much for posting things like this, I just saved myself a trip to Columbus tomorrow, THANK YOU!!!

I read with a lot of interest about your posts, particularly about Cydcor.

a little about myself: MBA grad-to-be, and aspiring business person. Was curious about all the fuss (because it was everywhere on Monster.com), etc.

Now, I was offered an entry level position a few weeks ago, but I never went, because selling office supplies door-to-door isn't my cup of tea, especially after my SC MBA. Plus, I intentionally did everything I wasn't supposed to do during an interview, because I simply wasn't interested in being a door-to-door salesperson. I was there to scout for future ideas. So, I was truly surprised when that office offered me a job. I figure that if this office would hire someone who behaved the way I did, there must be something wrong with it.

So, I did some research, from Hoover.com, this site, Cydcor.com's site, etc.

My conclusion: I think all of your responses are legitimate, whether from former employees who were ripped off, or from one former VP who was still making about $80,000/year but had to lie about making over $200,000 a year, and a few owners who apparently have really made it.

I have a different perspective:

I think Cydcor has a good business model. POOR execution, but good business model. Poor execution because apparently, in the name of doing business, Cydcor has really screwed up its reputation. However, we can't deny the fact that it is built on a brilliant premise: Many of their clients are legitimate Fortune 500 businesses who are looking to cut cost by outsourcing their "front line" sales force. It benefits those companies, because they don't have to pay Cydcor (or owners of the offices) until sales are made, so no fix cost, just marginal expense, like commission, etc, and probably a low fixed fee to Cydcor HQ. But, no 401K, no insurance benefits. Good cost saving for the clients.

It is really good for Cydcor, because Cydcor probably gets a cut of commission from all these offices, "leaders", and others. Probably plus a set annual fee from clients. With 1099, Cydcor is saying it does not have employees, just "contract labors". So, it does not have to pay employee benefits as well. So, good money for Cydcor.

Of course, it sucks that Cydcor mistreats the front line employees. BUT, that's why it is constantly recruiting, because it realizes the business will have high turn over rate. As the old saying goes: There's one sucker born every minute. The nifty thing about this concept is that Cydcor does not have to pay for high turn over, because cost of training new employees are bored by "business owners", or Leaders, or whoever. I know the guy who took me around on that second interview paid his own gas, and was driving a miserably used car trying to survive. He is lying to himself that if he can just weather this, he will become wealth, because that assistant manager above him is supposedly making $150,000 a year.

As for me, I think I will start my business emulating Cydcor's business model, with a few modification of course. I probably wouldn't go for commission based only, and probably wouldn't make it 1099 and "business owner" bs, so that the costs are absorbed by the firm itself, not by its midlevel managers (or "business owners"). Sure, this business would be less profitable than Cydcor, as the cost will be higher than Cydcor's basis. But at least I can rest assured that I am not cheating people off of their money and labor, and that I won't have all these disgruntled former employees trying to put a price on my head.

Thank you for mentioning the definition of marketing because you are exactly right. Sales does not equal marketing in any way shape or form. I would just like to add another term that has bugged me since the day I started for a cydcor office back in May.

Business to bussiness marketing:

Cydcor uses the term by saying it means going door to door to every business. Litterally going from one business to the next trying to pursuade people to sign up for phone service, office supplies, or shipping services.

Any educated business person knows that business to business marketing should not be taken literally. It means when one business buys something from another business that is not usually advertised in a commercial setting. It by no means means walking from one business to another. I loved when my manager used to make funy of "days of o" that did not realize they would be soliciting door to door all day when he told them they did business to business sales. He had no clue that he was misusing the term and he was the idiot, not the person being interviewed.

One more thing...."Neg out" or any form of that phrase is NOT a word!

Just FYI to clear up obvious misperceptions -

Sales is not marketing. They are very different. None of these so-called 'marketing' companies are doing any marketing. Nor are any of you getting 'marketing' experience.

Marketing is:
- A lot of research.
- Defining what a product is/will be and how that product/service will 'fit' into the marketplace.
- Before you can position (we're not even close to selling yet) a product you need to do a great deal of research to determine things such as who might buy your product, why would they buy your product, how does your product compare with substitutes, how are competitors going to react?......etc.etc.etc.

In easier terms, the goal of Marketing is not to 'make a sale', rather it is to determine the how & why a product would sale.
.....The sales people take that information and put it into action.

I am just writing this to tell all those nay sayer's who like to knock door to door sales because they only tried it for 2 days then gave up on themselves; It's your fault for not preparing your selves socially for the job. Go out and talk to all kinds of people especially those you wouldn't normally speak with. What you will learn will surprise you I guarantee. And this social knowledge cannot be learned in school or in a book; it comes with hands on practice as most character development things do.

FTB PROMOTIONS HAMILTON ONTARIO
If you then decide that marketing is your type of thing then it is in your best interests to find a company/business that works for you. 8 months ago I was thrown out of my parents house and things just weren't working out for me. I answered an ad that was for a marketing company called FTB Promotions in Hamilton. The President of the company (MR. D. HARBER) whom works very closely with all of his employees was good enough to not only give me a full time job immediately he fronted me some money and found me a place to stay. It was probably the nicest gesture I have ever encountered. And the longer I worked with the company I grew to realize that Daryl was the most respectful, generous, employer I have ever had. With his great amount of professionalism and positive attitude he should be a role model for all business owners. The company is well rounded and has a great client base. The contracts are always for great companies like sprint Canada, which makes it easy to make money as opposed to selling garbage bags and light bulbs like some other telemarketing jobs I have had. My first few days were slow at times for selling but immediately I was given a coach by the company and with an increase in confidence and product knowledge I was making between 800-1000$ weekly, I don't know of many jobs you can make this kind of cash. Most people find door to door sales a bit tedious however working with FTB is like no other company I have seen before. What makes the job different is the exciting atmosphere, constant encouragement, and being surrounded by positive attitudes. My coworkers who are now more like family members always are willing to help each other out and the sense of competition while still present doesn't prevent this from happening like it does in many workplaces. I love this job, and am advancing quickly as there are signs of expansion ownership in my future. I can only hope that when I own one of these businesses for myself I will run it as respectfully and efficiently as FTB Promotions is run.

It seems to me that Cydcor, DS MAX, TNI, Granton all came from the same womb of the Devil.

They all manipulate young growing minds into brainwashed sales drones, with promises of success and money.

I have to admit though, that these comanies are VERY VERY good for those people who have not had the oppurtunity to go to College (or took too many drugs). Where else could a non-degreed person with no entrepeneurial skills make just under 6 figures. It is good for those people. It is however, with dissapointment I add, that these companies take advantage of those who are striving for greatness.

I was said to be weak, because I left, but I have now successfully (with 60+ hours a week) opened and run a Real Estate Investment Firm in L.A. and actually had one of the Cydcor guys come in and try sell me Quill. I chuckled and out of pity without revealing my past signed on to his program. I am 21 and have succeeded, with my endeavors, but chose to do it the harder way: On My Own, so for all those people who said I was weak, shame on you for not believing in ourselves to start your own business.

I don't have endless amounts of money, and NO in all honesty my business does not pay me 6 figures, but it allows me to live comfortably, and it continues to grow. I expect to be paid much more in the coming years, and have done so through hard work. You don't need Cydcor or any other company to help you make it. do it yourself. Banks are waiting for people to start new businesses and if you look hard enough, you will find that the governemnt gives financial incentives to open a business.

For those of you who call those people who leave weak. You have no idea what they may go on to become, and serving Mc Donalds (sorry, cliche) to you in your BMW's is ridiculous:
Firstly because buying such an expensive car that devalues instead of investing in real estate that appreciates is stupid.
Secondly, because you guys may well one day walk into their office, to rebuild your fallen business, and offer them your services.

For those of you who have made it in those companies, Congratulations, you have truly accomplished something that many ave failed to do. When you see someone leave you office though, make sure you encourage tem in their next adventure, it will only benefit you to do this.

I am still very naive and oung in the business world, and have meny things to learn, and so if you are still in your early twenties and opening an office, make sure that you are professional and not act like spoilt high school kids who THINK that they are professional.

Have fun be real, and encourage people to tal about teir bad days. Find solutions for their bad days, and let them understand that everyone who works for the company is human, not a smile machine.

Congratulations, I'm Sorry and Good Luck to everyone who comes in conatct with this company, you will surely learn alot about the human race in you dealings with them.

Hi to everyone, I'm from Monterrey Mexico and I just met DS MAX.

I was looking for a simple job where to get some money for a pair of weeks and I saw an ad on the newspaper, they were offering from 1,960 to 5,000 pesos (190 to 500 dllrs) / 15 days, so I went to check what it was all about.

The story you all know it, the shitty office, and a girl telling me to go next day for the "training" (they didn't told me about the confortable shoes), from the minute I entered the place I knew that it DEFFINETELY wasn't for me, but I just wanted something for 1 or 2 weeks.
The lady said they would do an evaluation to me and see how many people I was able to manage. So the training day (saturday) I went and I went to the field to walk for 6 hours with a supervisor, a very nice man who kept telling me about all his dreams and desires, he told me almost all his life and how he was going to become millionaire with the DS MAX system, I just nodded gently and smiled but didn't said nothing about that, so he started going with people and selling this kid's books, curiously I pointed him some things he could have said or do to get a sale, and he was the one that was teaching me mmmm... at 5 pm we finally went back to the office so I could take a "test" I passed it and started monday (that is the day before yesterday), they told me that I had to be at 7 am and the work ended at 6 pm so I presented myself at 6:45 am monday, they told me to go to the "conference room" which was a little room with a table and some chairs, and I sitted there and listen the "rules" of the company and their "statements", after the supervisor finished, I started asking him all the questions I had about the place, how did it worked, where was the head managment, I told them that I wanted to reach to the place where the international business where done, and the guy couldn't answer my questions so he talked with the manager, meanwhile I went to other room where all the co workers where chatting about the day goal and one of the supervisors (an 18 year old guy) started talking to me about how to make a sale and then started doing the acting like if I was a potential costumer and I pointed him his mistakes about his way to approach and how he scanned people with his eyes, so I was actually teaching again to someone who was supposed to teach me, then the manager called me and he asked me about my wantings with the company and if I my intention was to stay for a long time, I had an epifany, and just said no, he told me that maybe my goals weren't related to those of the company, so I told him that it was fine and that it wasn't my intention to make them lose their time, I said good bye and left.

I came back home and just for curiosity I started searching about DS MAX on the web, and I found the group in MSN and yesterday night this ripoffreport, I just want to thank to those people who have posted, I give an applause to Mark, Todd, James, JJ, and all those who had expressed their opinion and managed the insulting coments of some people.

I mainly write because I read ALL the messages posted here, I spent last 6 hours just reading them all, and I saw the last one is from Leonardo from Mrida in Mxico, which is my country, and I'm horrofied about the fact of people not only deffending but supporting this methods.

As it has already been said tons of times, YES u can gain money (IF, and only IF you're one of those "lucky" 1%), but at what cost??? at ruinning several people lives??? do you sleep well knowing that everyday there's someone who's giving his life out there on the street so u can have that money in your bank account??? you do?? great!! so did Hitler!! so does Bush with those soldiers out there giving their lifes for HIS cause!!...

Now for those who might be thinking "ooh.. she might be one of those ignorant whining persons who didn't wanted to effort to make it"... I graduate from law last year, I know spanish, english and french and I'm starting learning italian and some japanese. And no, I'm not on the late 20's early 30's like someone said, I'm 21. And for that one that said that those against DS MAX might be like those bad losers from sports, I've been in lots of sports my whole life, swimming, gymnastics, basketball, tennis, I'm a black belt 1rst Dan in Tae Kwon Do since I was 10 years old, and I also did weightlifting during my college years being 3rd place in Nationals Youth Olympics and also in the National University Championship in the 2003 which was the year when I also finished my french degree, I won 9 gold medals in 3 different national tournaments in december of 2003, I've won and lost. Last year to get the law dyploma and working license I made my thesis in 3 languages being the first one in the history of my whole university in doing it, and I did all the work in 3 weeks.

SO YOU CAN'T COME AND TELL ME THAT I DON'T KNOW WHAT HARD WORKING IS BECAUSE I DO!!!!!!

I'm not afraid to have to work several hours as long as I'm having my reward, and without the need of stepping on dozens of lives to get it.

There is something called Ethic and something called Moral, I don't know if you pro DS MAX known them but they're good values.

You want to follow steps to success??? why don't u read the 7 steps for the Highly Effective People from Stephen Covey??? there are some good pointers, you should check specially the winning - winning part...

And now you're going to say, how could you know?? ... yeah I didn't even worked one day, partly 'cause they were scared of actually having someone questioning their method, but mostly because I didn't wanted to belong to that system.

What pains me is that in my country poverty is everywhere and I know a lot of people will give their lives to follow that dream, and I'm sorry but if I can do something to alert people not to get in that trap I will, and I'm going deep in this... maybe not now... but I'll follow the geology system, pression and time.

That's it...

PS I got intrigued for the names that were listed on the posts, I searched on the web and coudln't find nothing, just one web page with the Derek C. ... weird, he's a millionaire?? and he's not in the net??? and I'm a no one and u can see at least 6 pages of me.... there's one of me of the Stardust of the NASA, 'cause my name was launched to the space, there's another one of the CONDDE which is the Sports Comission of my country, there's another one of my professional exam in the portal of the UANL (my university), there's another one in universia.com also about my exam... etc etc...

YARENI VARINIA VILLARREAL CAMERO you can check if you want, I'm real and I don't hide behind a nick name or just a letter.

PSS For that person who went to Cancun on a road trip, you don't deserve to step on a sacred, beautiful place like Cancun, I think ur presence there must've been a reminding of the time when the Spanish people came to Mexico for the first time, the indians were aroused by them, they thought they were Gods and the solution to their prays, but in reality they were just a bunch of thiefs who robbed and raped everything they could... sounds familiar...........

Hi, this would be really quick cause it's late on a workday. As many of the people who wrote the reports I have read here, I started working on DS-Max 8 to 10 months ago; same as them, on streets, knocking doors, walking 5 miles a day, investing money on new guys and all that.

They are right, you got to be a hard working person for the company to hire you, and, so I was. I worked so hard that my legs are now the ones of a professional futball player, but it was worth the effort.

After finishing a professional carrer on a private university and learned 3 languages, no other company would offer me a chanse to work. DS-Max did, and now I am one of those "little percentage" guy who has a self office and wins enough money to rent a house, pay a car, go on a 24,000 dlls vacation... lies? depends on you...

For those who wanted to meet a guy who started as a promotor, became a team leader, assistant and al that... hi!

I am recent college graduate and I can tell you that looking for a job is hard. Right now, I have been blessed to work at for a State Agency, however, I still feel as though people should be warned about what to expect in these door-to-door sales.

I worked for a Cydcor company which shall remain nameless for the sake of those involved, because the people who work there are good people, but the way it is set-up just is kind of shady.

For the week and a half that I worked there, I had a feeling in the pit of my stomach that this wasn't for me and I have to admit that some people are really good at what they do,but when I went on an interview with one person, they questioned a lot of the ethics that this company practiced and I began to question them too.

For one thing, this job offers you no benefits and secondly, this is a very fickle business, one minute you're on top, everyone loves you, then the next minute, it's like you're shunned and that's the end. Lastly, it's door-to-door sales, so expect a lot of rejection.

I was let go by my leader, whom I hope God blesses in all that she does, because she felt as though I couldn't make any more sales and I'll admit that I was sad and dissapointed in myself, however, a few weeks later, I was offered a job at Kennedy Krieger Institute as a clincial assistant, then as a paralegal for the State. So, it's been a true blessing.

I want to thank my former leader for letting me go, because if she didn't, I wouldn't have experienced humility and better ways to have a positive attitude.

So, for those of you who do well in this company, may God bless and I hope that you have great success and for those who don't, it's not the end of the world, just know that God has something better out there for you.

May God bless everyone who reads this.

WHERE TO START?

i WORKED FOR FTB PROMOTIONS FOR THREE DAYS. AND THAT WAS ENOUGH FOR ME. ALL THE PEOPLE WHERE KINDA WIERD AND THEY ALL LIVED TOGETHER IN A TWO BEDROOM APARTMENT. AND THAT IS ALL 7 OF THEM. I THOUGHT THAT I WOULD BE MAKING LOTS OF MONEY BUT IF MAKING ALOT OF MONEY IS LIVING WITH 7 PEOPLE IN A 2 BEDROOM APARTMENT., ILL PASS.

THE OWNER RIGHT DOWN TO THE LEADERS ALL LIVED TOGETHER. I KNOW THEY WENT HOME EVERY NIGHT AND PITCHED THEM SELVES UNTILL THEY WENT TO SLEEP. THAT IS THE SADDEST THING,

aND i WAS NOT TOLD WHAT WAS GOING TO BE EXPECTED OF ME UNTILL I GOT TO THE SECOND INTERVIEW.

THE F***ING A** HOLE DIDNT TELL ME THAT I WOULD BE GOING DOOR TO DOOR. i LIVE IN CANADA IT IS WINTER TIME I DIDNT BRING THE RIGHT CLOTHING AND I WAS PRITTY MUCH FROZEN SOLID WHEN WE GOT BACK TO THE OFFICE.

TO NOT TELL SOME ONE THAT THEY ARE GOING TO BE OUT SIDE IN THE WINTER AND TO DRESS APPROPREATE IS NOT PORFESIONAL AT ALL.

lol I JUST LAUGH AT THESE PEOPLE I THINK THAT THEY THINK THAT THEY ARE ACTUALY GOING TO GET SOME WHERE. BUT NOW THAT I KNOW THAT THEY WILL GIVE YOU MONEY I WAS NOT GOING TO SHOW UP FOR WORK ON MONDAY BUT I WILL TO HAVE THE MANNAGER OR OWNER TO GIVE ME SOME CASH.

I LOVE THIS WEB SIGHT LOL

WELL THOSE OF YOU READDING ALL THESE MESSAGES THEY ARE TURE I DONT THIONK THAT YOU WILL BE HAPPY DOING THIS JOB.. ANY IDOT CAN BUG PEOPLE AT HOME. I HOPE THAT THEY COME TO MY DOOR ONE DAY!

I felt raped. Sore and raped. This 'industry' cut out my conscience, stripped me of my common sense, indeed it tore at my very humanity. I was a puppet, alas alack a mere pawn in Niarchos evil plan. Oh yeah and did i mention he sucks of Shane Ward who (whom?) blows goats.

The biggest complaint is misrepresentation.

Those arguing for DS-Max argue that they are their own seperate company, operating independantly. This is half-true. They only distribute products/services provided by DS-Max. They are beholden to DS-Max, and their actions reflect that. If you search Hotjobs, Monster, Careerbuilder, etc., for the terms "marketing or advertising" in any city you will find the same ad, with only subtle differences.

They talk about honesty and the second interview. They fail to mention that during the "second interview" you are instructed to hold all questions until the end of the day. After hearing so much about becoming "independantly wealthy" would you even question it? It is an opportunity for them to cram as much false info down your throat as they can. They mention the success of the "Yankees Campaign". They make comparisons to McDonalds. They do all the things they were trained to do (in the DS-Max "system") to get you to bite. And why wouldn't they? Their own "opportunity" hangs in the balance of your decision.

In the end, its all empty rhetoric. Their business overall sucks. How do I know this? For one, there exists no source to prove their success. No annual profits, no budget, nothing. They claim 15,000 offices worldwide. Is that true? How would you know? Where would you look? All they give you are words, with no chance for confirmation of their outrageous claims. In fact, just to quelch the voice of opposition on the internet, they registered a bunch of phony DS-Max sites, so that when you entered "DS-Max" into a search engine, you'd be inundated with empty hits, instead of finding DSMAXTHEAFTERMATH.COM. Go ahead and try it, and you'll see what comes up. Reputable company indeed.

Technically speaking, this may not be an MLM. Technically and practically speaking, this company is a waste of time.

But hey, I have nothing to lose or gain by saying this, unlike those still with DS-Max who are trying to protect thier investment. So go ahead if you must, and realize what the rest of us who experienced this so-called "opportunity" already know - its a waste of time, talent, and resources. Just don't say you weren't warned.

The biggest complaint is misrepresentation.

Those arguing for DS-Max argue that they are their own seperate company, operating independantly. This is half-true. They only distribute products/services provided by DS-Max. They are beholden to DS-Max, and their actions reflect that. If you search Hotjobs, Monster, Careerbuilder, etc., for the terms "marketing or advertising" in any city you will find the same ad, with only subtle differences.

They talk about honesty and the second interview. They fail to mention that during the "second interview" you are instructed to hold all questions until the end of the day. After hearing so much about becoming "independantly wealthy" would you even question it? It is an opportunity for them to cram as much false info down your throat as they can. They mention the success of the "Yankees Campaign". They make comparisons to McDonalds. They do all the things they were trained to do (in the DS-Max "system") to get you to bite. And why wouldn't they? Their own "opportunity" hangs in the balance of your decision.

In the end, its all empty rhetoric. Their business overall sucks. How do I know this? For one, there exists no source to prove their success. No annual profits, no budget, nothing. They claim 15,000 offices worldwide. Is that true? How would you know? Where would you look? All they give you are words, with no chance for confirmation of their outrageous claims. In fact, just to quelch the voice of opposition on the internet, they registered a bunch of phony DS-Max sites, so that when you entered "DS-Max" into a search engine, you'd be inundated with empty hits, instead of finding DSMAXTHEAFTERMATH.COM. Go ahead and try it, and you'll see what comes up. Reputable company indeed.

Technically speaking, this may not be an MLM. Technically and practically speaking, this company is a waste of time.

But hey, I have nothing to lose or gain by saying this, unlike those still with DS-Max who are trying to protect thier investment. So go ahead if you must, and realize what the rest of us who experienced this so-called "opportunity" already know - its a waste of time, talent, and resources. Just don't say you weren't warned.

The biggest complaint is misrepresentation.

Those arguing for DS-Max argue that they are their own seperate company, operating independantly. This is half-true. They only distribute products/services provided by DS-Max. They are beholden to DS-Max, and their actions reflect that. If you search Hotjobs, Monster, Careerbuilder, etc., for the terms "marketing or advertising" in any city you will find the same ad, with only subtle differences.

They talk about honesty and the second interview. They fail to mention that during the "second interview" you are instructed to hold all questions until the end of the day. After hearing so much about becoming "independantly wealthy" would you even question it? It is an opportunity for them to cram as much false info down your throat as they can. They mention the success of the "Yankees Campaign". They make comparisons to McDonalds. They do all the things they were trained to do (in the DS-Max "system") to get you to bite. And why wouldn't they? Their own "opportunity" hangs in the balance of your decision.

In the end, its all empty rhetoric. Their business overall sucks. How do I know this? For one, there exists no source to prove their success. No annual profits, no budget, nothing. They claim 15,000 offices worldwide. Is that true? How would you know? Where would you look? All they give you are words, with no chance for confirmation of their outrageous claims. In fact, just to quelch the voice of opposition on the internet, they registered a bunch of phony DS-Max sites, so that when you entered "DS-Max" into a search engine, you'd be inundated with empty hits, instead of finding DSMAXTHEAFTERMATH.COM. Go ahead and try it, and you'll see what comes up. Reputable company indeed.

Technically speaking, this may not be an MLM. Technically and practically speaking, this company is a waste of time.

But hey, I have nothing to lose or gain by saying this, unlike those still with DS-Max who are trying to protect thier investment. So go ahead if you must, and realize what the rest of us who experienced this so-called "opportunity" already know - its a waste of time, talent, and resources. Just don't say you weren't warned.

The biggest complaint is misrepresentation.

Those arguing for DS-Max argue that they are their own seperate company, operating independantly. This is half-true. They only distribute products/services provided by DS-Max. They are beholden to DS-Max, and their actions reflect that. If you search Hotjobs, Monster, Careerbuilder, etc., for the terms "marketing or advertising" in any city you will find the same ad, with only subtle differences.

They talk about honesty and the second interview. They fail to mention that during the "second interview" you are instructed to hold all questions until the end of the day. After hearing so much about becoming "independantly wealthy" would you even question it? It is an opportunity for them to cram as much false info down your throat as they can. They mention the success of the "Yankees Campaign". They make comparisons to McDonalds. They do all the things they were trained to do (in the DS-Max "system") to get you to bite. And why wouldn't they? Their own "opportunity" hangs in the balance of your decision.

In the end, its all empty rhetoric. Their business overall sucks. How do I know this? For one, there exists no source to prove their success. No annual profits, no budget, nothing. They claim 15,000 offices worldwide. Is that true? How would you know? Where would you look? All they give you are words, with no chance for confirmation of their outrageous claims. In fact, just to quelch the voice of opposition on the internet, they registered a bunch of phony DS-Max sites, so that when you entered "DS-Max" into a search engine, you'd be inundated with empty hits, instead of finding DSMAXTHEAFTERMATH.COM. Go ahead and try it, and you'll see what comes up. Reputable company indeed.

Technically speaking, this may not be an MLM. Technically and practically speaking, this company is a waste of time.

But hey, I have nothing to lose or gain by saying this, unlike those still with DS-Max who are trying to protect thier investment. So go ahead if you must, and realize what the rest of us who experienced this so-called "opportunity" already know - its a waste of time, talent, and resources. Just don't say you weren't warned.

Anonymous in Oak Brook,
I worked for Sessions. There is a report specifically for his company on this site. I encourage you to name the company directly or at least contribute to that report, so that others can see that there are many people speaking out against the deception.
I'm glad you got out and can see the lies.
Take care of yourself and beware in the future.

Most everything I have read it true- from the interview process to the "morning/evening atmospheres" to all the psychology behind the music and brainwashing techniques. The only thing that is not true about the office I am leaving is the people who work there are not going broke or living together because the owner has made a lot of money and actually pays for things. The roads trips are supposedly paid by him and I believe training is paid by him so that leaders are not losing money. Although I cannot be sure because whenever I ask a question I am always answered by the ever so popular "I don't know"

I was completely skeptical from day one because I wasn't informed about the "day of o" AT ALL. When I walked in at 9 I was asked if my schedule was cleared until at least 5. I was like, um, ok...

And then posted on the wall it says "OWN YOUR OWN BUSINESS ON 6-8 months - yet in an opportunity meeting I am told I have to save 10,000 to open my office. Isn't that my own investiment? When I question my assistant manager about this he snaps at me and says that is a sense my OWNER IS GIVING IT TO ME. whatever dude, I am working those hours for that money.
Yeah so since I ask a lot of questions, I knew they were surrounding me with the assistant managers to try and shut me up. Glad I found this site because it's confirmed all of my suspicions.

See, I don't really have a problem busting my a*s to make the money... my problem lies WITH the lies. If I were to walk in there tomorrow and my owner were to tell me I could transfer to another office and be an assistant manager to shut me up I couldn't do it because I COULD NEVER LIE to people like all of these people do. Leaving out all of these truths?? My god, I was never even told that I was really working for Cydor until I was on my 2nd day of training and I had to make a phone call and my Leader said tell them you're with Cydcor!

Yeah so overall I could never continue with this comonay because I could never step all over people and lie lie lie lie to new people to TRICK them into joining the company.

Good Luck to everyone who thinks this company rocks. Heh, they hire people with INTEGRITY. Why, so they can lose it?

Renee you make me laugh...In another thread on this website you were just a "friend" of Chris Auwarters (ComQuest Marketing owner)..... Now you are an owner? Sorry to disappoint you that he had never mentioned you. Good for you that you have some free time to get online and preach to all of us. I hope you feel justified. You really amuse me.

Oh and yes Com Quest is indeed a Cydcor subsidiary. They consider themselves one of the best. Ha! Yes, some of their leaders were pretty persuasive.. But I remember Chris instructing us to flat out lie on Days of O and "with hold" the truth from them AND from members of our "team" who were still new guys.. Maybe it wouldn't have been so bad (I made good money, but feel bad about it because i realize how many people were cheated in the long run!) if it wasn't for those BORING meetings... same thing over and over, Cortez, Tiger Woods... GET A LIFE! And to top it off, I know for a fact that Chris was sleeping with his employees, as were his "golden boys", and he had no problem overlooking sexual harassment. The only decent people that worked there have since quit. Oh, and Renee, tell Chris i'm sorry to hear about Jonathans office failing. Like we didn't see THAT one coming! That was the office in Indianapolis that some of you had been to. Knowing Jonathan, he must have been screwing up really bad, then Chris probably tried to save him (note: when someone has an office fail ONCE, usually you shouldn't hand them another one!) I am thankful for the money I made, but am also thankful from being out from inside that sick black hole of Cydcor..

ComQuest Marketing is a subsidairy if CYDCOR, from what I can gather.

I went for a "first" interview today, was called back almost before I got home, and am supposed to go back tomorrow for my day of Obsevation. Something seemd funny about this place from the beginning, I received the same email requesting an interview four times. Then, the guy that I talked to to set up theinterview called back ten minutes later and said he forgot that he had already talked to me.

I'm so glad I found this website, so I don't waste my time tomorrow. This is exactly the thing I was afraid of when I jumped back into the job market.

worked for 3 months for this company...got into it coz i kinda like the positive vibe..the vibe was so infectious and before i even knew it, im hooked.

i freaked out on my first day coz they were doing these lame "juice" and high fives...quite dissapointed coz most of the people that id be working with look like slobs... but got the hang of it eventually...i could say that their ads are really deceiving...i didn't know that i was go from one house to another to sell merchandise...and to make things worse, i live in the philippines and it's a very hot country and u could just imagine how really draining the work is..and i really got a tan on my first day...with really ugly blouse lines separating my fairer skin from my burnt skin...then i thought i had to buy sunblock for this work....but at the end of the day you'd soon forget about being s****.> i get through the day using my charm to get them to buy my product...i had d edge coz im more professional looking and modesty aside, im way prettier compared to my other co-workers...

but a after few months of still being broke and earning money that could barely feed me for the entire day, i started asking myself if it's really worth all these effort..then i weighed the pros and cons...

cons...company doesnt pay for tax...im not covered by insurance...i dont get privileges such as social security savings, med benefits..plus very long work hours...staying in the office till 11pm after a very exhausting day on the streets....ur just getting commissions period no extras for the effort at least...there are days when business is bad and i dont get to take home any money..just sore feet and a burnt face,

pros...i did learn a lot...i imbibed the positive attitude...i met nice people,,,i even met my boyfriend there...u get sales training at no cost to you...i added another word in my vocabulary "juice"...got no regrets whatsoever...perhaps it's really just not my cup of tea...it's not scam...there are really people from this biz who made their way to the top,earning more money than they neeeded, not the easy way though...

just my 2 cents worth.

I have several things to say about your post, Renee, but before I waste my breath, I'd really love to know what company you own here in Chicago. I am a former employee of a Cydcor company here, and I have never heard of you. Please, since you're so proud, tell us the name of your company.

I have several things to say about your post, Renee, but before I waste my breath, I'd really love to know what company you own here in Chicago. I am a former employee of a Cydcor company here, and I have never heard of you. Please, since you're so proud, tell us the name of your company.

I have several things to say about your post, Renee, but before I waste my breath, I'd really love to know what company you own here in Chicago. I am a former employee of a Cydcor company here, and I have never heard of you. Please, since you're so proud, tell us the name of your company.

WOW Renee!! How many people did you have to brainwash to get yourself to the top. I am sure as an owner you take pride in your office and tell people the truth when they come in right?

Oh and the benefits of being an owner, lets really look at what a benefit is. going to a weekend in cancun for working ungodly hours. but hey it must be cool to have no life(unless being a cydcor b***h everyday is a life) and go to phoenix.

Its also hard to do research on a company when there is no info about it. of course a cult like your own would make sure you keep all the info to yourself, so no one actually finds out the bullshit work you do

WOW Renee!! How many people did you have to brainwash to get yourself to the top. I am sure as an owner you take pride in your office and tell people the truth when they come in right?

Oh and the benefits of being an owner, lets really look at what a benefit is. going to a weekend in cancun for working ungodly hours. but hey it must be cool to have no life(unless being a cydcor b***h everyday is a life) and go to phoenix.

Its also hard to do research on a company when there is no info about it. of course a cult like your own would make sure you keep all the info to yourself, so no one actually finds out the bullshit work you do

WOW Renee!! How many people did you have to brainwash to get yourself to the top. I am sure as an owner you take pride in your office and tell people the truth when they come in right?

Oh and the benefits of being an owner, lets really look at what a benefit is. going to a weekend in cancun for working ungodly hours. but hey it must be cool to have no life(unless being a cydcor b***h everyday is a life) and go to phoenix.

Its also hard to do research on a company when there is no info about it. of course a cult like your own would make sure you keep all the info to yourself, so no one actually finds out the bullshit work you do

Let me explain multi-level marketing. To be honest, there is nothing wrong with it, but you can't call what we do here MLM, and sound educated at the same time. MLM is where one person is at the top and everyone they 'bring on' is ALWAYS below them. The way our business model works is: If I bring someone 'on' and they kick my a*s and do better than me, they are no longer under me. MLM always has a top. No matter how hard someone below the top works they can never be better. Well ours is different. Take for instance Brandie Rucks. John Wiggins promoted her out. She is now doing equally as well as John, therefore she is no longer abover Brandie. They are equals.

If you would rather, "make less and be happy" then this might not be the job for you. Sales might not be for you. Sales is a very competitive, money-driven business. If you don't like money, you won't like any kind of sales.

Then you say this isn't a job. That is the first correct thing you have said! It's a career. This career does pay you for your time. We do take taxes out and we are teaching you how to run your own business.

You said, "The 2nd interview is a joke...why aren't you just being honest about what they are doing" How much more honest can you be by taking someone out of the job with you? You can't get a read on someones ability to do this job by sitting in an office talking to them.

You also said, "I think most of the bragging by the supposed owners are made up." I have been an owner now for 14 months. Is my office nice? yes. Overly nice? no. You don't become wealthy by spending your money. Someone else talked about saving in another response... my promoting owner drilled saving into my head.

The sports marketing ads and "you quit because you can't handle it" is stupid. If there are owners out there doing that, that is unethical and dumb, i Agree. We don't do sports marketing which is why my business will never put out a sports marketing ad. And someone quits because they can't handle it? No, because this wasn't for them. It's not for everyone. Thats why managers do get all the benefits that we do, because Cydcor knows we worked hard to get there. (example: Cancun trip, Phoenix trip this year)

Again I say, you can't group all offices together. There are good ones and bad ones. I would assume someone would do their research before taking ANY job. I know I did.

Went through the same approach most of you did. Was fresh out of college, saw the "Sports Marketing" ad and sent in my resume. First interview was your typical 15 minute broad interview and I got my second interview. Didn't really hit me till I got there that this wasn't a real job. After they told me I'd be joining another "team member" for the day, I started asking questions. Couldn't get any answers out of them so I went home.

I'm sure there are people out there who make money doing this, but I feel it is very small. It's Multi-Level-Marketing, and for those familiar with it, a very small percent make money.

I read the post by the supposed owner and say good for you if you enjoy what you are doing and making good money. I don't feel calling people who chose not to do this failures. You couldn't pay me enough to do door-to-door sales. No offense to the job, but I'd rather make less and be happy. I do question your post as it seems like there are about 50000 owners by how many post here.

My biggest gripe is the way they promote their job opportunities. Let's face it, it's a bold faced lie. This isn't sports marketing, its door-to-door sales and MLM. It's not a job, it's independent work. A job pays you for your time. A job takes out taxes. If I'm going to do something where I pay my own expenses, I might as well open my own business.

The 2nd interview is a joke. Why do you need to take your interviewees 40 miles out? Why not just tell them exactly what they'll be doing? It's like you're ashamed of it. For people as proud of your jobs, why aren't you just being honest about what they are doing?

I think most of the bragging by the supposed owners are made up. I hear about all this money flying around yet can't fathom why they can't afford better than a 3rd rate run down basement office. Would think a cash cow like this would be running somewhere respectible.

You also find your typical sales tactics used on potential or failed employees. The classic "You quit because you can't handle it". More like "You quit because you don't feel like doing MLM for crap pay". There is a reason why you don't see Harvard business grads rushing toward the MLM jobs.

With that said, I don't want to say it's a scam because everyone can make up their own mind. Most people I would hope are smart enough to research what MLM is all about. I understand they feed on desperate and young guys who they can mold (brainwash).

I'm glad some of you are enjoying it, I enjoy my job as well. I don't want to rip on the job, just want to let people know what they are interviewing for. That is since you are afraid to tell them.

There was an office called Argentum in Quincy MA that shared space with D.C. Advertising. I thought that you were from there when you signed your post 'argentum', my mistake.

Never heard of it. "Paul", no it is not my name. There is a Paul on this side of the world and has recently been promoted to VP but it aint me. His name is Paul Burkett

I left in 2000.

The business outside of the US runs almost independently. With major Head Offices in Sydney and London.
If a manager needs a retrain, the last place he/she would go is the US, just too far away and too many differences. There are enough offices and VP's in Oz and UK to stand alone.

Instead of DS Max & CydCor, the parent companies are called Cobra and Appco respectively. Granton is still the name of the advertising division. Product Direct is clearance and Support Direct is Charities.

At one stage I had an office in each division.

Doesn't bother me if you believe me or not. I don't really sit on either side of the fence with this company. I have seen it do bad things to people's lives and good to others.

My only reason for posting here was to try and help others sitting on the fence make a more educated decision on the company.

One thing I did forget to mention last time was:
It doesn't get easier. The negatives get larger, but you are trained to "handle" them.
The misconception is being a Manager is easy. They make it look easy.
But, have a bad day in the field and you'll struggle for rent.
Start a campaign, give away your stroke, have a bad week, and it can actually cost you money to turn up.
Yes there is money is bigger, but so are the bills.

Feel free to throw me more questions if you doubt my authenticity OR if you're in the business and what a non-bias answer to a question.

Sweet

Never heard of it. "Paul", no it is not my name. There is a Paul on this side of the world and has recently been promoted to VP but it aint me. His name is Paul Burkett

I left in 2000.

The business outside of the US runs almost independently. With major Head Offices in Sydney and London.
If a manager needs a retrain, the last place he/she would go is the US, just too far away and too many differences. There are enough offices and VP's in Oz and UK to stand alone.

Instead of DS Max & CydCor, the parent companies are called Cobra and Appco respectively. Granton is still the name of the advertising division. Product Direct is clearance and Support Direct is Charities.

At one stage I had an office in each division.

Doesn't bother me if you believe me or not. I don't really sit on either side of the fence with this company. I have seen it do bad things to people's lives and good to others.

My only reason for posting here was to try and help others sitting on the fence make a more educated decision on the company.

One thing I did forget to mention last time was:
It doesn't get easier. The negatives get larger, but you are trained to "handle" them.
The misconception is being a Manager is easy. They make it look easy.
But, have a bad day in the field and you'll struggle for rent.
Start a campaign, give away your stroke, have a bad week, and it can actually cost you money to turn up.
Yes there is money is bigger, but so are the bills.

Feel free to throw me more questions if you doubt my authenticity OR if you're in the business and what a non-bias answer to a question.

Sweet

Never heard of it. "Paul", no it is not my name. There is a Paul on this side of the world and has recently been promoted to VP but it aint me. His name is Paul Burkett

I left in 2000.

The business outside of the US runs almost independently. With major Head Offices in Sydney and London.
If a manager needs a retrain, the last place he/she would go is the US, just too far away and too many differences. There are enough offices and VP's in Oz and UK to stand alone.

Instead of DS Max & CydCor, the parent companies are called Cobra and Appco respectively. Granton is still the name of the advertising division. Product Direct is clearance and Support Direct is Charities.

At one stage I had an office in each division.

Doesn't bother me if you believe me or not. I don't really sit on either side of the fence with this company. I have seen it do bad things to people's lives and good to others.

My only reason for posting here was to try and help others sitting on the fence make a more educated decision on the company.

One thing I did forget to mention last time was:
It doesn't get easier. The negatives get larger, but you are trained to "handle" them.
The misconception is being a Manager is easy. They make it look easy.
But, have a bad day in the field and you'll struggle for rent.
Start a campaign, give away your stroke, have a bad week, and it can actually cost you money to turn up.
Yes there is money is bigger, but so are the bills.

Feel free to throw me more questions if you doubt my authenticity OR if you're in the business and what a non-bias answer to a question.

Sweet

Did you work for Argentum or are you Paul, the "owner"? or Ex-owner now, I guess. I thought Argentum Marketing was doing shitty and Paul had to be retrained in NYC by Raf Diaz. Didn't Paul up and leave one day when Raf was out of town? I'd like to see what you have to say about Paul or Argentum whoever you are...

WOW!
I didn't know some people felt this badly about this company when they only worked there a matter of weeks or months.

Shame about the guy who slammed Derek the VP, that ain't cool.

A lot of the posting here seem to be from ex-sales guys, leaders or current leaders and a*s-managers.

To let you know I WAS in the business for 4 years. Manager for 3. Regional Manager for 1 and a half. Half way to VP before I decided enough was enough.

I have left, I have been "out" for 4 years now. And with the exception of the first 6 months I'm ok about it!

I am writing, not to say its a great opportunity, that its all "juice" or that that its a scam either, I just thought if you are thinking about joining DS Max, Cydcor, Cobra or any other subsidiary, that there there ARE some things to be weary of, think about and what smoke and mirrors to "see through".

First up. This company and its associated offices are everywhere. Not just the US. No one is going to stop it. No one person is going to prevent it from ever expanding. It'll move forward with or without anyone, even Larry or Chris Niarchos, hey it did without Murray!

Secondly. Its not the systems, its the people. The system for the business is sound theoretically. This is what gets people in. The system for opportunity is great, however, your manager decides if you get promoted and own your own company. You need his support, so even if you get you "peices" you still need the support of your promoting owner and VP. If you dont get on with him, you aren't going to last long.

Things to think about:
1 This is a LIFESTYLE not a job.
It is a fast paced rollercoaster ride. Money comes and goes. New people come and go. Turning up will NOT get you moving forward.
YES, you will lose contact with those not involved and that means you family.
YES, your friends will primarily be those with similar mind-sets in the business.
YES it is trading your "life" for financial gain.
2. It depends on your manager.
If you have a good manager, you will do well. If you don't you will struggle.
Be weary of managers that have been around for years and haven't promoted many managers themselves.
New Managers, Rookie owners will more than likely have to go on retrains themselves.
3. SUCCESS STORIES.
There are over 20,000 of these offices around the world. OF COURSE there are going to be success stories. Are there ANY near you?
4. EGO's
In the world of sales egos are the main thing. Yours will be stroked. This is for the benefit of the company.
There is a thing called "Cydcor Figures". Like chinese whispers, figures somehow manage to lift and lift.
5. MONEY
Yup tere's a lot of money to be thrown around. Shame there isnt more people educating you, like they do to sell, to teach you about proper money management.
I was a 20 year old making between $70,000-$150,000 a year, what do I do with it? Spend it! I can make heaps more next week, or month. 2 years later I have blown over 200,000 bucks on nothing!
They promote you to spend it. Its a shame.
6. LIFE SPAN
This is a biggie. Unlees you move forward fast, you will only last 3-4 years before the flame fizzles, make the most of it. AND SAVE MONEY
7. YOUR GUYS ARE PEOPLE TOO
Some leaders think that their crew are there working for them. If this is you, quit, leave now, you'll never make it ahead, you may think so getting promoted to a*s-man, but it WON'T last.
If YOU as a leader (this includes managers and VP's) take the attitude that you work for YOUR people, you will do better.
8. NOT EVERYONE WILL MAKE IT
Be very WEARY of managers who say anyone can make it. Its a lie. If they lie about this, they may lie about other stuff too.
Sure the system says anyone can, but the system doesnt take into account the human factor. Its about people. You need drive first and people skills second. (Effort will get you to finish the race, ability just determines where you place).
9. IT NEVER STOPS
You can always do better, break new PB's, open more offices. You think you're doing well, nope, do better. The long hours NEVER STOP. But again, its a lifestyle option. You love it? Go nuts.
10 THE BIG ONE
IF YOU CAN'T MAKE IT HERE, YOU CAN'T MAKE IT THERE
This business taught me so much. Attitude, mentality, pitching, human interaction, and almost how to run a business. All regarless of my prior history.
Its not true, if you can make it here, you can almost "find a way" to make it anywhere.

If you do decide to make a meal of it remember:

Its about your people. They are people, with feelings and dreams, don't damage them for your gain.

It doesn't last forever.
This company has been going for over 20 years. How many 40+ year olds are running offices? Exactly.

You decided to stay, just like others decided not to. Don't eliminate people from your life because they made a decision that you don't understand.

Remember, you manager and VP SHOULD be working to help you move forward. If you move forward, they make more money! They can't build your crew for you, but they should help you every step of the way. If they don't you manager and/or VP suck

Its not the end of the world if you leave!
If you wake up every morning, finding it hard to get out of bed to go to work everyday for about 4-8 weeks, leave. Use the skills they teach (just not the manipulation) outside in the real world.
I run a very successful business now. Sure the lifestyle isnt as "rock n roll", flying country to country, staying at $800/night hotels, but my life has a lot more balance and have a healthy savings account!

Hope this helps.

My first name is changed. Australia isn't that big and my name will give me away very easily, I was a golden child with the President for a bit! I still see those in the company every now and again. Sometimes bumping into new agents. I dont scare them out, I hjust try and take away the crap.

Stay juicey!

What's ridiculous...?

How about the fact that in the DS-Max system...

People have died, but managers will just claim they "toasted" so other leaders don't get "negged out."

Women have gotten raped, but it's been covered up, so as not to "neg out" other females in the company.

How about that people spend 2-3 years in leadership so they can move up to management, and become "financially independent," then go bankrupt 6 months after opening an office.

What other things are ridiculous about this company...?

The company is so dirty, and the managers are so desperate to make a dime, that they'll do and say anything to keep their business running.

Everyone knows that everything is a lie, and the higher you move up the DS-Max corporate ladder, the more you have to lie.

Sure, but everything is fine because of the "we treat the customer with respect" policy... But would these companies do business with DS-Max if they knew it was ruining 100,000's of lives world wide every year???

Sorry if my Derek Colantonio impression wasn't very good :p

I realize now that it was not Derek who made the post. but relax man, it's not as if it's an impossibility that something like that could be true. thanks for the news flash.

Ok...news flash...that wasn't Derek Colantonio.

That person doesn't even know that much about the guy. Derek has 3 kids and a wife. I know because i've been to his house, spoken with his wife, and played with his kids. His kids are ridiculously(sp?) cute. He doesn't live in an apartment building, its a house...and a pretty nice one at that. He came to Granton from being a manager at another company, not "finding very few opportunities". I don't feel like going through your post and correcting every part, but those are the main ones.

If you didn't enjoy your experience thats fine, but why pretend you're someone else? Its pitiful...

Ok...news flash...that wasn't Derek Colantonio.

That person doesn't even know that much about the guy. Derek has 3 kids and a wife. I know because i've been to his house, spoken with his wife, and played with his kids. His kids are ridiculously(sp?) cute. He doesn't live in an apartment building, its a house...and a pretty nice one at that. He came to Granton from being a manager at another company, not "finding very few opportunities". I don't feel like going through your post and correcting every part, but those are the main ones.

If you didn't enjoy your experience thats fine, but why pretend you're someone else? Its pitiful...

Ok...news flash...that wasn't Derek Colantonio.

That person doesn't even know that much about the guy. Derek has 3 kids and a wife. I know because i've been to his house, spoken with his wife, and played with his kids. His kids are ridiculously(sp?) cute. He doesn't live in an apartment building, its a house...and a pretty nice one at that. He came to Granton from being a manager at another company, not "finding very few opportunities". I don't feel like going through your post and correcting every part, but those are the main ones.

If you didn't enjoy your experience thats fine, but why pretend you're someone else? Its pitiful...

Ok...news flash...that wasn't Derek Colantonio.

That person doesn't even know that much about the guy. Derek has 3 kids and a wife. I know because i've been to his house, spoken with his wife, and played with his kids. His kids are ridiculously(sp?) cute. He doesn't live in an apartment building, its a house...and a pretty nice one at that. He came to Granton from being a manager at another company, not "finding very few opportunities". I don't feel like going through your post and correcting every part, but those are the main ones.

If you didn't enjoy your experience thats fine, but why pretend you're someone else? Its pitiful...

Derek,

I worked in your office in Quincy when Raf was a manager there. I am suprised to see you here on this site...suprised you are not defending the company that is.

You say that you have no wife, no kids...I have seen you with kids before, were they just a prop? I feel bad for you, to go to such extremes to defend the company and your image as a VP. Was your Lexus a rental then?

I was all too inspired by your appearances in the office, your speeches in the mornings and at rally time...you did a good job.

It's one thing to come on here and tell your story and show you have seen the error of your ways, but you were a VP...you know the company better than most. What can you do to stop them? You must have the ability to show other managers that the whole thing is a f**king sham! There is another web-site, DS max the aftermath. There is a section there for people trying to get friends and family out of the business. Why don't you use some of your power to get some offices shut down...talk to the managers who hold you in such high regard and help them see what is real. They can't all be so brainwashed to believe that YOU "just couldn't cut it, or that it just wasn't for you." which is what they will be led to believe, am I wrong? So instead of coming here and letting all of us know that you are reformed...do something good for a change and get some people off the streets!

Why don't you start with Raf Diaz and Stefan Mainhart...

Hi, my name is Derek Colontonio, and I'm currently one of the VP for Granton Marketing. After years of wasting my time in this company, I feel it's time for me to quit.

Here is my story:
As a college drop out, I found very few opportunities. I one day found an ad in an employment guide looking to train individuals for management, no experience was necessary.

So I decided to interview. I'm sure most of you know the whole process by now. I went in, moved up to leadership within three weeks, and as a leader, I was promised by my manager that I was 6-8 months away from being financially independant. So I decided to stick through the whole leadership process.

As a leader, I was taught to lie, and tell anyone coming into the company that they too (with effort and persistance) could make it up to management within 8-10 month period (maybe shorter).

Although this was a lie, because it took me 18 months to get up to management, and most leaders quit after a year to a year and a half, until they finally quit because they only have 1 or 2 leaders under them.

But I thought this was okay, because I would eventually move up to management, and become financially successful... right?... WRONG!

When I did move up to management, I found out that it was all a lie. As a manager, I was only making 30-40 thousands dollars a year. This was enough money to get by, but I could've made more had I just graduated from college.

As a manager, I had to claim that I was making 200,000 dollars a year, and granton marketing even provided me with a nice car and apartment so it would seem like I really was making all this money!

Being a manager, I was working 80-85 hours per weeking, and lying to everyone in the office, despite trying to act as a fatherly figure.


My next goal was to move up to regional manager. All I had to do was train 5 leaders to become managers. Easy enough, right...? Well this whole process took me 6 years. 6 years of working 85 hours per week, lying to everyone that I claimed to like, and act as a fatherly figure towards.

My promise was that as a regional manager, I would have to work less hours, and I would finally make 6 digits.

Both of these were lies. Even as a regional manager, I had to work 80 hours per week, but I got to fly from one city to another, instead of just sitting in some office all day. The money was a little better, my first year as a regional manager, I made 70,000 dollars. And the best part was that I didn't have to lie on a daily basis.

So as a regional manager, my goal was to promote just 1 other person to regional manager, and 3 more leaders to management, so someone else could take over my position, and I would get to stop working so hard, and make even more money.

I did this, and it only took 2 and half years. Finally, I would stop having to work so hard, and I could find a wife to settle down with, and have lots of extra money.

WRONG...!!!!! As a VP I still have to fly all over the country, train managers, tell them how to properly lie to their leaders and so on. I still don't get to live a normal life. I still don't make 6 digit figures.

I even had to make up a pretend life, where I claim to be married, and have 2 kids! This is a lie, as I haven't ever had the time to meet a woman, settle down, or have any kids.

I claim that I live in a mansion in the nicest neighborhood in Chicago.

This is also a LIE!!! I live in a decent sized apartment building with 5 other VP's, and none of us make more than 80,000 dollars a year, and most of this money is spent on our own travel expenses, as we never get to stay in the same place for more than a short period of time.

Fortunately, I have enough money saved up, so that I'll be able to quit, finish college, and hopefully meet a woman and get married.

Truth, I've only had 1 girlfriend in my 11 years at granton, and most of the VP's lie about being married or still being in contact with family members, because that's what the head people at Granton tell us to do. The head people at Granton are mostly MBA'ers who never spent a day as a distributor.

As a message from a VP (ready to quit)...

GET OUT, GET OUT, GET OUT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Hi, my name is Derek Colontonio, and I'm currently one of the VP for Granton Marketing. After years of wasting my time in this company, I feel it's time for me to quit.

Here is my story:
As a college drop out, I found very few opportunities. I one day found an ad in an employment guide looking to train individuals for management, no experience was necessary.

So I decided to interview. I'm sure most of you know the whole process by now. I went in, moved up to leadership within three weeks, and as a leader, I was promised by my manager that I was 6-8 months away from being financially independant. So I decided to stick through the whole leadership process.

As a leader, I was taught to lie, and tell anyone coming into the company that they too (with effort and persistance) could make it up to management within 8-10 month period (maybe shorter).

Although this was a lie, because it took me 18 months to get up to management, and most leaders quit after a year to a year and a half, until they finally quit because they only have 1 or 2 leaders under them.

But I thought this was okay, because I would eventually move up to management, and become financially successful... right?... WRONG!

When I did move up to management, I found out that it was all a lie. As a manager, I was only making 30-40 thousands dollars a year. This was enough money to get by, but I could've made more had I just graduated from college.

As a manager, I had to claim that I was making 200,000 dollars a year, and granton marketing even provided me with a nice car and apartment so it would seem like I really was making all this money!

Being a manager, I was working 80-85 hours per weeking, and lying to everyone in the office, despite trying to act as a fatherly figure.


My next goal was to move up to regional manager. All I had to do was train 5 leaders to become managers. Easy enough, right...? Well this whole process took me 6 years. 6 years of working 85 hours per week, lying to everyone that I claimed to like, and act as a fatherly figure towards.

My promise was that as a regional manager, I would have to work less hours, and I would finally make 6 digits.

Both of these were lies. Even as a regional manager, I had to work 80 hours per week, but I got to fly from one city to another, instead of just sitting in some office all day. The money was a little better, my first year as a regional manager, I made 70,000 dollars. And the best part was that I didn't have to lie on a daily basis.

So as a regional manager, my goal was to promote just 1 other person to regional manager, and 3 more leaders to management, so someone else could take over my position, and I would get to stop working so hard, and make even more money.

I did this, and it only took 2 and half years. Finally, I would stop having to work so hard, and I could find a wife to settle down with, and have lots of extra money.

WRONG...!!!!! As a VP I still have to fly all over the country, train managers, tell them how to properly lie to their leaders and so on. I still don't get to live a normal life. I still don't make 6 digit figures.

I even had to make up a pretend life, where I claim to be married, and have 2 kids! This is a lie, as I haven't ever had the time to meet a woman, settle down, or have any kids.

I claim that I live in a mansion in the nicest neighborhood in Chicago.

This is also a LIE!!! I live in a decent sized apartment building with 5 other VP's, and none of us make more than 80,000 dollars a year, and most of this money is spent on our own travel expenses, as we never get to stay in the same place for more than a short period of time.

Fortunately, I have enough money saved up, so that I'll be able to quit, finish college, and hopefully meet a woman and get married.

Truth, I've only had 1 girlfriend in my 11 years at granton, and most of the VP's lie about being married or still being in contact with family members, because that's what the head people at Granton tell us to do. The head people at Granton are mostly MBA'ers who never spent a day as a distributor.

As a message from a VP (ready to quit)...

GET OUT, GET OUT, GET OUT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Hi, my name is Derek Colontonio, and I'm currently one of the VP for Granton Marketing. After years of wasting my time in this company, I feel it's time for me to quit.

Here is my story:
As a college drop out, I found very few opportunities. I one day found an ad in an employment guide looking to train individuals for management, no experience was necessary.

So I decided to interview. I'm sure most of you know the whole process by now. I went in, moved up to leadership within three weeks, and as a leader, I was promised by my manager that I was 6-8 months away from being financially independant. So I decided to stick through the whole leadership process.

As a leader, I was taught to lie, and tell anyone coming into the company that they too (with effort and persistance) could make it up to management within 8-10 month period (maybe shorter).

Although this was a lie, because it took me 18 months to get up to management, and most leaders quit after a year to a year and a half, until they finally quit because they only have 1 or 2 leaders under them.

But I thought this was okay, because I would eventually move up to management, and become financially successful... right?... WRONG!

When I did move up to management, I found out that it was all a lie. As a manager, I was only making 30-40 thousands dollars a year. This was enough money to get by, but I could've made more had I just graduated from college.

As a manager, I had to claim that I was making 200,000 dollars a year, and granton marketing even provided me with a nice car and apartment so it would seem like I really was making all this money!

Being a manager, I was working 80-85 hours per weeking, and lying to everyone in the office, despite trying to act as a fatherly figure.


My next goal was to move up to regional manager. All I had to do was train 5 leaders to become managers. Easy enough, right...? Well this whole process took me 6 years. 6 years of working 85 hours per week, lying to everyone that I claimed to like, and act as a fatherly figure towards.

My promise was that as a regional manager, I would have to work less hours, and I would finally make 6 digits.

Both of these were lies. Even as a regional manager, I had to work 80 hours per week, but I got to fly from one city to another, instead of just sitting in some office all day. The money was a little better, my first year as a regional manager, I made 70,000 dollars. And the best part was that I didn't have to lie on a daily basis.

So as a regional manager, my goal was to promote just 1 other person to regional manager, and 3 more leaders to management, so someone else could take over my position, and I would get to stop working so hard, and make even more money.

I did this, and it only took 2 and half years. Finally, I would stop having to work so hard, and I could find a wife to settle down with, and have lots of extra money.

WRONG...!!!!! As a VP I still have to fly all over the country, train managers, tell them how to properly lie to their leaders and so on. I still don't get to live a normal life. I still don't make 6 digit figures.

I even had to make up a pretend life, where I claim to be married, and have 2 kids! This is a lie, as I haven't ever had the time to meet a woman, settle down, or have any kids.

I claim that I live in a mansion in the nicest neighborhood in Chicago.

This is also a LIE!!! I live in a decent sized apartment building with 5 other VP's, and none of us make more than 80,000 dollars a year, and most of this money is spent on our own travel expenses, as we never get to stay in the same place for more than a short period of time.

Fortunately, I have enough money saved up, so that I'll be able to quit, finish college, and hopefully meet a woman and get married.

Truth, I've only had 1 girlfriend in my 11 years at granton, and most of the VP's lie about being married or still being in contact with family members, because that's what the head people at Granton tell us to do. The head people at Granton are mostly MBA'ers who never spent a day as a distributor.

As a message from a VP (ready to quit)...

GET OUT, GET OUT, GET OUT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Hi, my name is Derek Colontonio, and I'm currently one of the VP for Granton Marketing. After years of wasting my time in this company, I feel it's time for me to quit.

Here is my story:
As a college drop out, I found very few opportunities. I one day found an ad in an employment guide looking to train individuals for management, no experience was necessary.

So I decided to interview. I'm sure most of you know the whole process by now. I went in, moved up to leadership within three weeks, and as a leader, I was promised by my manager that I was 6-8 months away from being financially independant. So I decided to stick through the whole leadership process.

As a leader, I was taught to lie, and tell anyone coming into the company that they too (with effort and persistance) could make it up to management within 8-10 month period (maybe shorter).

Although this was a lie, because it took me 18 months to get up to management, and most leaders quit after a year to a year and a half, until they finally quit because they only have 1 or 2 leaders under them.

But I thought this was okay, because I would eventually move up to management, and become financially successful... right?... WRONG!

When I did move up to management, I found out that it was all a lie. As a manager, I was only making 30-40 thousands dollars a year. This was enough money to get by, but I could've made more had I just graduated from college.

As a manager, I had to claim that I was making 200,000 dollars a year, and granton marketing even provided me with a nice car and apartment so it would seem like I really was making all this money!

Being a manager, I was working 80-85 hours per weeking, and lying to everyone in the office, despite trying to act as a fatherly figure.


My next goal was to move up to regional manager. All I had to do was train 5 leaders to become managers. Easy enough, right...? Well this whole process took me 6 years. 6 years of working 85 hours per week, lying to everyone that I claimed to like, and act as a fatherly figure towards.

My promise was that as a regional manager, I would have to work less hours, and I would finally make 6 digits.

Both of these were lies. Even as a regional manager, I had to work 80 hours per week, but I got to fly from one city to another, instead of just sitting in some office all day. The money was a little better, my first year as a regional manager, I made 70,000 dollars. And the best part was that I didn't have to lie on a daily basis.

So as a regional manager, my goal was to promote just 1 other person to regional manager, and 3 more leaders to management, so someone else could take over my position, and I would get to stop working so hard, and make even more money.

I did this, and it only took 2 and half years. Finally, I would stop having to work so hard, and I could find a wife to settle down with, and have lots of extra money.

WRONG...!!!!! As a VP I still have to fly all over the country, train managers, tell them how to properly lie to their leaders and so on. I still don't get to live a normal life. I still don't make 6 digit figures.

I even had to make up a pretend life, where I claim to be married, and have 2 kids! This is a lie, as I haven't ever had the time to meet a woman, settle down, or have any kids.

I claim that I live in a mansion in the nicest neighborhood in Chicago.

This is also a LIE!!! I live in a decent sized apartment building with 5 other VP's, and none of us make more than 80,000 dollars a year, and most of this money is spent on our own travel expenses, as we never get to stay in the same place for more than a short period of time.

Fortunately, I have enough money saved up, so that I'll be able to quit, finish college, and hopefully meet a woman and get married.

Truth, I've only had 1 girlfriend in my 11 years at granton, and most of the VP's lie about being married or still being in contact with family members, because that's what the head people at Granton tell us to do. The head people at Granton are mostly MBA'ers who never spent a day as a distributor.

As a message from a VP (ready to quit)...

GET OUT, GET OUT, GET OUT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

No offense to those of you who had bad experiences with this company, but suck it up guys! This job is for some and it isn't for others-just like every other job. Most of you didn't stick with the long enough to get the gist of it anyway!

I've been working over working 40hrs a week with several different jobs since I was 18 years old, AND I went through school at the same time through most of it, so putting in my time with this company to eventually own my own office is cake for me. Those of you who had probelms with this company sound like you're trying to get through life with a silver spoon in your mouth. Guess what? Life doesn't work that way. You have to start at the bottom doing crap work even if you get a job at In & Out!

if you want to contact me...contact me via ripoffreport.com [DELETED]

[Place your comments below and be sure to include your FULL contact information so Rip-off Report can contact you.]

it is a temporary address that I will use so u can let me know who you are.

I look foreward to speaking with you.

Jay, I am surprised at your response. From my perception the manager of EMC was by far the worst. I'm sure he's not a bad person, but he is a terrible manager. That's what the business does, it turns people who would otherwise be ok into greedy, selfish people. He has never and probably will never promote anyone, and he doesn't care to. He only cares about himself. I guess it's just a difference of perceptions, because I never saw the awful side of Stefan or Raf the way you described. But I do believe you. I wish I could talk to you somehow outside this forum, as I do not want to disclose my identity on here and there is alot I'd like to discuss with you. Regardless, I've read alot of your rebuttals regarding DS-Max and I think all of your arguments are valid.

I wish I knew who you were but if you want to stay anonymous that's fine...

Even though I worked on the other campaign, I knew yours and your manager very well. I have nothing bad to say about your manager...nothing at all. The campaign on the other hand I found to be a bit shady, but the whole d**n company is shady as hell.

In all of my posts I speak the truth about my experiences in the business. Every one of them is negative, but through it all...the manager at EMC was a good guy and I hold no bad feeling toward him.

The real scumbag "managers" are Stefan and Raf. I can't imagine how they can still do this s**t. At least Raf has a bit of money to get him by, but at the end of the day he is still a low-life swill merchant. Stefan is just as bad but I can only imagine how terrible his life is now, I lived with him for over a year...his life was shitty then and it's probably gotten worse.

...one can only hope.

-anonymous...I am glad you are no longer in the business. That's good...just make sure no one else you know gets into it.

A friend mentioned this site to me awhile ago and I am just getting around to checking it out now. Jay, I worked in the same office with you in Upper Darby. However, I was in the "Charities" division. My biggest regret is being convinced that we were actually doing something good.

The money doesn't go to the charity at all (a measly 5% of the owner's cut - which after doing the math amounts to almost nothing). While I worked my a*s off, my manager would go home and sleep. It was a terrible experience and the guilt I feel for being apart of such a misleading campaign was not worth it at all.

I do know that all ds-max affiliated offices in PA were sent a cease and desist order for not being registered for solicitation, but I don't know what the end result was. It is bad enough to use people, but to represent the company as a charity helping innocent children is quite possibly the most disgusting thing I have ever heard of and I will always regret being a part of that.

I wrote another link about my experience under G.G.C. & Meriam Marketing, feel free to look at it to compare your experience to mine. Right now I am simply commenting on the financial aspects of this particular subsidary of Cydcor.

There are many bad business practices not only going on but encouraged here. One is their pay, they make you believe that you are making so much money and the numbers sound good. In reality, however, I didn't make enough to pay my rent, thank goodness I still have the support of my parents or I would be homeless right now. I was on the bell nearly every day that I worked yet I never had a check that was even $200.00 (gross net pay). And yes, I just talked to ten different people who work for McDonald's and they all told me numbers higher than $200.00 for one week of work.

I also had to pay $200.00 for a convention in San Fransico THAT I DIDN'T ATTEND! Wow, I'm sure glad I can fund your expenses Gunther*! Well, I hope that everyone who is considering a position with any company connected to Cydcor in anyway, think for yourselves! Read on, and make an educated decision about your future. Please search undr company name: G.G.C. & Meriam Marketing to see the rest of my unjust experience with this company.

Thankfully free from the deception and lies,

I'm not here to critisize anyone's opinions, just to tell you my experience, which is a positive one. First of all, know that I am not "brainwashed". I clearly see both the negatives and positives of this business. It is unfortunate that there have been so many owners that have helped to taint the name of Cydcor and the rest of it's ICL's with their shady business practices.

First of all, in the office I have been in for the past 14 months, there have never been any "cult-like" chants. As a matter of fact, I have never been taught or heard a single chant. Last year I made $38,000 and that does not include any of the money I paid to help train others. Anyone who is good at sales and can take a "no" can make decent money. I was also never guaranteed that I would become rich.

I was simply told that if I wanted to bust my a*s for it, then the opportunity was there for me to make what I could of it. I am opening my own office in one month. Will I be a success story? I hope so, but even if I am not, I can not think of one other job opportunity that would have taught me as much as this one will in a short 2 years. I am much more marketable now than I was last year, and this opportunity has taught me that I can be successful anywhere, because I refuse to give up on something I have started.

Do most people make it to management? No, absolutely not, but what percentage of people make it to management in any industry? Let's be honest, most of us are much more comfortable with our $40k and 401k plan than in taking risks with our future. That's okay. As so many of us have said, this is not the business for everybody, but this experience has been an invaluable one to me, and I am so glad that I have had the perserverance to stick it out and experience it.

For the rest of you, good luck. Just know that there are good people with this company that aren't deceptive and that genuinely care about others.

I thought looking over these comments were pretty interesting. Some people made some really good points, some not so good. I think everyone needs to understand that there is always two sides to every story. As many bad companies as the United States has is just as many bad employees.

I have been with two different Cydcor companies in the last two years, now I own my own company. You can take whatever you want from the experience. I do agree that some of the ICL's (Independant Cydcor Licensee) are run very poorly. But they are all not bad companies. The two that I have been involved with run with integrity and everything that I was told about throughout the interview process.

For those of you who complained about the work week (hours vs. compensation):
It should be clearly stated in your interview process what is expected of you. It was to me. If I want to own my own company; do I think I can put in a normal 40 hour week!

Coming out of college to the level I am now, I had a lot to learn. Also, the time it takes for a business to start making money in the United STates is averaged at 6 years. Which means if I was to start a business by myself - and run it successfully - then I wouldn't start profiting for about 6 years.

Do I expect to make a lot of money in the field then? No. I am learning how to run a business - not trying to get rich in the field.

For those of you who complained about lieing and decit:
That is unfortunate. I hate that people are running unethical businesses. I know those exist in and outside of Cydcor. If you are in a situation like that. Get out. No one wants to work for an unethical company.

Make sure you do your research though. I have seen and now read some individuals stories, and I wonder how many questions they asked. (obviously, no one thinks they are being lied to by their employer - I don't mean that) But, regardless of the job I am taking, I would ask questions about the integrity and practices of the businesses.

It's funny - I applied at one Cydcor office 2 years before the one I originally started working for. I had no idea at the time that they were related. But the first one I applied to was un - real. Shady (just like you guys are talking about). The second one - was on point. Very well run and established.

Bottom line: You can't group all of Cydcor together. Escpecially not Cydcor, DS Max, and Granton. They are three seperate companies. It's like saying At&T, MCI and Sprint are the same companies! They do the same thing - just with different owners. Now that sounds silly.

There are some ethical owners out there. Myself being one of them. This business is not for everyone! If it were - everyone would be successful - clearly not everyone in America is. 2% of Americans make a solid 6 figure income. I am now one of them.

Johnnymac,

It is really sad that you cannot stand up for yourself. I do feel bad for you. But I cannot, for the life of me, understand how someone who knows how to read and write doesn't understand the basic format of a debate or discussion. Maybe I'm the first to tell you this, but it goes: Point, counterpoint. Point, counterpoint. Point, counterpoint... Get it? Pretty simple stuff, eh? And what's even more amazing is that the point and counterpoint work against each other to represent opposing views and opinions. Its INSANE, I know.

So now you know; you don't have to act so shocked the next time someone responds to your statement with an opposing point of view. No need for any more temper tantrums, fits of crying, or any other type of emotional melt-down brought on by a socially crippling ignorance.

As for The Aftermath... Playing God? Well, maybe if the Aftermath is (was) your whole universe than I suppose the administrater of the site could be viewed as God. I had no idea The Aftermath was THAT important to you, Johnnymac. I guess it makes sense that you would go and start your own group after being "banished".

Oh, and about feeling "like a loser from day one"... Sorry if that was YOUR experience. That is not the goal or intention of The Aftermath and, honestly, to date, you've been the only one to make that claim. But at least you have the consolation of having your own message board now. And I see you have taken a keen interest in drenching your site with gay porn. I'll bet nothing makes you feel more like "God" than personally hand-selecting the gay porn that will adorn the pages of your very own web-site that helps people recover from a web-site that helps people recover from an MLM.

Good Day.

For all you pro-maxers I just want to point something out very clearly to all of you about these guys who keep arguing with you and dont let you have a point of view. I agree with all of you about your take on Ds-Max. These clowns are more worried about how a positive tone will look to a new guy checking out the site. Ignore them. All they do, all day long is whine and complain about the company. Some of them for years.

This I know because these guys are all apart of a little whine group called DS-MAX THE AFTERMATH. Thye ban people who have opposing views. they are a little click that formed and thinks that they can disban, harm, whatever, anything to do with DSMAX. Ignore them. They are useless, lonely clowns. They are in their late twenties early thirties and they are either on the ROR or in their group playing GOD. I dont care how bad you hate Dsmax, do not join their group because its a waste of time. You will feel like a loser from day one.

Their code names are Anti-Max ( sheepish, nerdy loser of the grooup), Happynow ( ultimate Follower), Ds-Crack ( wow, what a posieur), Sicerestinfosec ( follower), snypyvat ( joke).
They are all former owners ( except for anti, he was an a*s-man, and Dscrack was in the business for 4 weeks). They loved the business but once they hung out together in the group, they started a little Whiner pact.

CLICK here to see why Rip-off Report, as a matter of policy, deleted either a phone number, link or e-mail address from this Report. /a>

and enjy. Peace, have fun....keep the maturity flowing and choose your own life. the same cultlike influences these people talk about, the anti-dsmax guys exude.

Your Friend............Johnnymac

For all you pro-maxers I just want to point something out very clearly to all of you about these guys who keep arguing with you and dont let you have a point of view. I agree with all of you about your take on Ds-Max. These clowns are more worried about how a positive tone will look to a new guy checking out the site. Ignore them. All they do, all day long is whine and complain about the company. Some of them for years.

This I know because these guys are all apart of a little whine group called DS-MAX THE AFTERMATH. Thye ban people who have opposing views. they are a little click that formed and thinks that they can disban, harm, whatever, anything to do with DSMAX. Ignore them. They are useless, lonely clowns. They are in their late twenties early thirties and they are either on the ROR or in their group playing GOD. I dont care how bad you hate Dsmax, do not join their group because its a waste of time. You will feel like a loser from day one.

Their code names are Anti-Max ( sheepish, nerdy loser of the grooup), Happynow ( ultimate Follower), Ds-Crack ( wow, what a posieur), Sicerestinfosec ( follower), snypyvat ( joke).
They are all former owners ( except for anti, he was an a*s-man, and Dscrack was in the business for 4 weeks). They loved the business but once they hung out together in the group, they started a little Whiner pact.

CLICK here to see why Rip-off Report, as a matter of policy, deleted either a phone number, link or e-mail address from this Report. /a>

and enjy. Peace, have fun....keep the maturity flowing and choose your own life. the same cultlike influences these people talk about, the anti-dsmax guys exude.

Your Friend............Johnnymac

Wow, can you believe it? Over a year and a half ago I gave my first introspective of my own DS Max experience in one of the Toronto offices, Been there...Done that....The truth after 2 yearsthe Good, the Bad, and the DOWNRIGHT Ugly. Honestly, it's been so long since I wrote it, I entirely forgot about it. Then I got an email that someone has posted a rebuttal, many have in fact, and WOW a lot of strong feelings both sides.
Don't be fooled. Like any business, it's really only as good as the man or woman who runs it, and really, each office runs independantly. DS Max, Cydcor, etc. are the suppliers of method, product, and clients, and they're in it to make money, not warm thoughts. Let's face it though, since they supply thousands of offices, they don't hold the hands of the owners on day to day business. Truth in fact, just because someone may have been a good salesman in the field and made it to owner level, it does not guarantee they will be a competent one. That, along with the fact that your goals my not necessarily directly benefit the owner of the office you're in, all play a huge part of your success or lack there of in the over-all company scheme.
So, how do you really decide if it's for you?
First off, you'll see a lot of posts in here of people who either did not even go on a day of observation, only stay a couple of hours, or even a couple of days. Rememberthey are not you, and either they didn't give it a chance, didn't even try, or just plain sucked as salesmen. Their opinion means NOTHING to YOU. Not everyone can do every job successfully that comes their way, and unfortunately they become very frustrated and bitter by this. Try asking a mechanic to be a makeup artist and you'll get my point.
Secondly, sad but true, there are offices out there not even making enough to pay their guys what they earned and will give you big stories covered in JUICE. These offices really should be forced to close by DS Max if for no other reason but these ones severely harm their image, but they're not. Use some common sense. If someone can't even pay you out of money YOU already collected and gave him, do you really think he can teach you to run your own business successfully if he cannot.
Thirdly, ethics are easily lost in any office and replaced by dollar signs in the eyes, but you don't have to fall for it. If you choose to try out door-to-door, you do not have to lie to make good money. While signing up people for natural gas savings in Toronto, people I worked with felt they had to lie to sign deals and ring the bell, teaching their crew the same. I chose to be honest and either took more time for the customer to understand what they were signing up for, or just walk away and not waste my time on them. I may not have rang the bell everyday like many who lied, but come payday (checks coming from the client, Natural Gas Wholesalers) my check was still great, many times more than the bell ringers after the cancellations came back to haunt them. What it comes down to is; if you feel you have to rip-off the customer to make a deal, the job is not for you.
In summary in this post, it's not for everyone. As I said in my post over a year ago, it may not be the best job for everyone and maybe not even you. But if you try it, you have fun doing it, and you meanwhile make some ok money, then it's still better than welfare and maybe you might learn something in the process with some respect.

In my next post: Some more of my past experiences in Toronto, a bit more of what I think about some of the comments read here, and a few more hints to keep in mind for YOU to make up your own mind.the story continued.

Wow, can you believe it? Over a year and a half ago I gave my first introspective of my own DS Max experience in one of the Toronto offices, Been there...Done that....The truth after 2 yearsthe Good, the Bad, and the DOWNRIGHT Ugly. Honestly, it's been so long since I wrote it, I entirely forgot about it. Then I got an email that someone has posted a rebuttal, many have in fact, and WOW a lot of strong feelings both sides.
Don't be fooled. Like any business, it's really only as good as the man or woman who runs it, and really, each office runs independantly. DS Max, Cydcor, etc. are the suppliers of method, product, and clients, and they're in it to make money, not warm thoughts. Let's face it though, since they supply thousands of offices, they don't hold the hands of the owners on day to day business. Truth in fact, just because someone may have been a good salesman in the field and made it to owner level, it does not guarantee they will be a competent one. That, along with the fact that your goals my not necessarily directly benefit the owner of the office you're in, all play a huge part of your success or lack there of in the over-all company scheme.
So, how do you really decide if it's for you?
First off, you'll see a lot of posts in here of people who either did not even go on a day of observation, only stay a couple of hours, or even a couple of days. Rememberthey are not you, and either they didn't give it a chance, didn't even try, or just plain sucked as salesmen. Their opinion means NOTHING to YOU. Not everyone can do every job successfully that comes their way, and unfortunately they become very frustrated and bitter by this. Try asking a mechanic to be a makeup artist and you'll get my point.
Secondly, sad but true, there are offices out there not even making enough to pay their guys what they earned and will give you big stories covered in JUICE. These offices really should be forced to close by DS Max if for no other reason but these ones severely harm their image, but they're not. Use some common sense. If someone can't even pay you out of money YOU already collected and gave him, do you really think he can teach you to run your own business successfully if he cannot.
Thirdly, ethics are easily lost in any office and replaced by dollar signs in the eyes, but you don't have to fall for it. If you choose to try out door-to-door, you do not have to lie to make good money. While signing up people for natural gas savings in Toronto, people I worked with felt they had to lie to sign deals and ring the bell, teaching their crew the same. I chose to be honest and either took more time for the customer to understand what they were signing up for, or just walk away and not waste my time on them. I may not have rang the bell everyday like many who lied, but come payday (checks coming from the client, Natural Gas Wholesalers) my check was still great, many times more than the bell ringers after the cancellations came back to haunt them. What it comes down to is; if you feel you have to rip-off the customer to make a deal, the job is not for you.
In summary in this post, it's not for everyone. As I said in my post over a year ago, it may not be the best job for everyone and maybe not even you. But if you try it, you have fun doing it, and you meanwhile make some ok money, then it's still better than welfare and maybe you might learn something in the process with some respect.

In my next post: Some more of my past experiences in Toronto, a bit more of what I think about some of the comments read here, and a few more hints to keep in mind for YOU to make up your own mind.the story continued.

Wow, can you believe it? Over a year and a half ago I gave my first introspective of my own DS Max experience in one of the Toronto offices, Been there...Done that....The truth after 2 yearsthe Good, the Bad, and the DOWNRIGHT Ugly. Honestly, it's been so long since I wrote it, I entirely forgot about it. Then I got an email that someone has posted a rebuttal, many have in fact, and WOW a lot of strong feelings both sides.
Don't be fooled. Like any business, it's really only as good as the man or woman who runs it, and really, each office runs independantly. DS Max, Cydcor, etc. are the suppliers of method, product, and clients, and they're in it to make money, not warm thoughts. Let's face it though, since they supply thousands of offices, they don't hold the hands of the owners on day to day business. Truth in fact, just because someone may have been a good salesman in the field and made it to owner level, it does not guarantee they will be a competent one. That, along with the fact that your goals my not necessarily directly benefit the owner of the office you're in, all play a huge part of your success or lack there of in the over-all company scheme.
So, how do you really decide if it's for you?
First off, you'll see a lot of posts in here of people who either did not even go on a day of observation, only stay a couple of hours, or even a couple of days. Rememberthey are not you, and either they didn't give it a chance, didn't even try, or just plain sucked as salesmen. Their opinion means NOTHING to YOU. Not everyone can do every job successfully that comes their way, and unfortunately they become very frustrated and bitter by this. Try asking a mechanic to be a makeup artist and you'll get my point.
Secondly, sad but true, there are offices out there not even making enough to pay their guys what they earned and will give you big stories covered in JUICE. These offices really should be forced to close by DS Max if for no other reason but these ones severely harm their image, but they're not. Use some common sense. If someone can't even pay you out of money YOU already collected and gave him, do you really think he can teach you to run your own business successfully if he cannot.
Thirdly, ethics are easily lost in any office and replaced by dollar signs in the eyes, but you don't have to fall for it. If you choose to try out door-to-door, you do not have to lie to make good money. While signing up people for natural gas savings in Toronto, people I worked with felt they had to lie to sign deals and ring the bell, teaching their crew the same. I chose to be honest and either took more time for the customer to understand what they were signing up for, or just walk away and not waste my time on them. I may not have rang the bell everyday like many who lied, but come payday (checks coming from the client, Natural Gas Wholesalers) my check was still great, many times more than the bell ringers after the cancellations came back to haunt them. What it comes down to is; if you feel you have to rip-off the customer to make a deal, the job is not for you.
In summary in this post, it's not for everyone. As I said in my post over a year ago, it may not be the best job for everyone and maybe not even you. But if you try it, you have fun doing it, and you meanwhile make some ok money, then it's still better than welfare and maybe you might learn something in the process with some respect.

In my next post: Some more of my past experiences in Toronto, a bit more of what I think about some of the comments read here, and a few more hints to keep in mind for YOU to make up your own mind.the story continued.

Wow, can you believe it? Over a year and a half ago I gave my first introspective of my own DS Max experience in one of the Toronto offices, Been there...Done that....The truth after 2 yearsthe Good, the Bad, and the DOWNRIGHT Ugly. Honestly, it's been so long since I wrote it, I entirely forgot about it. Then I got an email that someone has posted a rebuttal, many have in fact, and WOW a lot of strong feelings both sides.
Don't be fooled. Like any business, it's really only as good as the man or woman who runs it, and really, each office runs independantly. DS Max, Cydcor, etc. are the suppliers of method, product, and clients, and they're in it to make money, not warm thoughts. Let's face it though, since they supply thousands of offices, they don't hold the hands of the owners on day to day business. Truth in fact, just because someone may have been a good salesman in the field and made it to owner level, it does not guarantee they will be a competent one. That, along with the fact that your goals my not necessarily directly benefit the owner of the office you're in, all play a huge part of your success or lack there of in the over-all company scheme.
So, how do you really decide if it's for you?
First off, you'll see a lot of posts in here of people who either did not even go on a day of observation, only stay a couple of hours, or even a couple of days. Rememberthey are not you, and either they didn't give it a chance, didn't even try, or just plain sucked as salesmen. Their opinion means NOTHING to YOU. Not everyone can do every job successfully that comes their way, and unfortunately they become very frustrated and bitter by this. Try asking a mechanic to be a makeup artist and you'll get my point.
Secondly, sad but true, there are offices out there not even making enough to pay their guys what they earned and will give you big stories covered in JUICE. These offices really should be forced to close by DS Max if for no other reason but these ones severely harm their image, but they're not. Use some common sense. If someone can't even pay you out of money YOU already collected and gave him, do you really think he can teach you to run your own business successfully if he cannot.
Thirdly, ethics are easily lost in any office and replaced by dollar signs in the eyes, but you don't have to fall for it. If you choose to try out door-to-door, you do not have to lie to make good money. While signing up people for natural gas savings in Toronto, people I worked with felt they had to lie to sign deals and ring the bell, teaching their crew the same. I chose to be honest and either took more time for the customer to understand what they were signing up for, or just walk away and not waste my time on them. I may not have rang the bell everyday like many who lied, but come payday (checks coming from the client, Natural Gas Wholesalers) my check was still great, many times more than the bell ringers after the cancellations came back to haunt them. What it comes down to is; if you feel you have to rip-off the customer to make a deal, the job is not for you.
In summary in this post, it's not for everyone. As I said in my post over a year ago, it may not be the best job for everyone and maybe not even you. But if you try it, you have fun doing it, and you meanwhile make some ok money, then it's still better than welfare and maybe you might learn something in the process with some respect.

In my next post: Some more of my past experiences in Toronto, a bit more of what I think about some of the comments read here, and a few more hints to keep in mind for YOU to make up your own mind.the story continued.

First, Yemi, the second to last sentence in your rebuttal should have read "Case IN point, neither spelling nor grammar are indicators of financial intelligence or success."

Second, I went back about twenty or so rebuttals and only found one instance where someone's grammar or spelling was called into question, yet you imply that this happens each time someone comes to the defense of DS. According to my cursory glance-over, this actually happens less than ten percent of the time. You discredit all of your statements when you make one that is so verifiably innaccurate.

Third, what you see does not necessarily equal how the world works. You didn't see any of the glaring offenses described here. That doesn't mean they don't happen. You have noticed that, in the real world, the A students end up working for the C students. I, and the rest of the world, have noticed the opposite.

Fourth (the rest of this is aimed at your statements, not you), consider this. Your boss may not be able to compose a company memo, but I bet he's a pretty good communicator nonetheless. Whether or not someone is a good speller may not be indicative of much, but you're not going to get far in this world if you can't communicate well with others.

Communicating your ideas with the proper words, said in the proper order, is a complete necessity if you want other people to have respect for what you say. It shows that you have put enough thought into what you're saying and, more importantly, that you actually believe it. If you want your ideas to gain the respect that you think they deserve, then you should present them in the best manner possible and not allow other people to call your intelligence into question.

In print form, those who cannot naturally adhere to the rules of spelling and grammar have the luxury of spellcheckers, and thus the ability to ensure that they are actually saying what they mean. To fail to take this step shows a lack of respect for your own thoughts. (For those who do not know, you can type your rebuttal in Word and paste it here).

If you want to engage in debate with people that have taken the time and effort to compose gramatically and alphabetically correct rebuttals, you should be prepared to do the same.

I was an independent contractor with DS-Max for about 2 months in 2000. I worked out of the Enterprise Advertising office in San Diego, CA.

During those two months, although the "JUICE" wake up ritual bugged the hell out of me, I didn't see any glaring offenses like those described here.

I left, not because I "saw the light". Not because I got ripped off. I left because I knew that I couldn't hack it. But what I took with me was a better understanding of the sales process.

What is interesting about this forum is that if someone posts any type of defense for DS-Max as an organization, the DS-Max haters will immediately attack their spelling or grammar. What I have noticed in the real world is that the "C" students end up supervising the "A" students.

I look at where I currently work. I am the only person there who didn't graduate college with a 3.0 or higher (that's because I decided to work). Our company president? Guy has admitted that he can't write a company memo. Doesn't matter...he's a multimillionaire. Case and point....spelling and grammar isn't an indicator of financial intelligence or success.

I'm content with my $35k a year job. I have more time for family and I know what my check will be.

I used to work with Raf when he was the owner in Boston. Is Paul the same guy who opened that office with Raf in Quincy, then moved with him to NY? Just curious as that guy was always such an arrogant a*s. I'll sleep better knowing he ended his run in the same ball of fire that the rest of us ended.

I am almost positive I am correct in thinking that "someone will" is you, Paul. If I am wrong...sorry. If not this is what I have to say to you:

You are a complete joke and a failure! You wasted how many? three, four years of your life being a servant to the field and to Raf and all you got for it in the end was gaining 50 pounds and banking $7,000...Will that $7 grand even pay for you move back to Chi town?

As for your comment in your last post about the managers making people work. Why did you up and leave NY when Raf was out of town? Now maybe you understand why I bounced out of Philly so fast. So much for those relationships and experiences you treasure so much.

You can say whatever you want to make yourself feel better about you being a failure, but in the end you got duped like everyone else that thinks they will make the big bucks by making it to mgmt. Laughable man....ha ha ha ha ha

Good luck in your future endeavors.

Someone will...

First of all, they do not "force" people to stay with the company. What the do is make it so incredibly difficult to leave that you become trapped in a situation where you really have no option but to struggle day to day with no way to help yourself get out of that situation.

The managers make you dependent upon them, like you owe them something...even if you don't. They get it into your head that you cannot be successful in any other job even when you don't have enough money to buy a soda for yourself. Its like you know you are in a bad situation, but you can't do anything about it.

It is a fantasy company. The managers project this image of future success and financial freedom if you do what they say. 99% of the time you will not achieve this success. but they string you along for weeks and months at a time. Always dangling the ace up their sleeve..."own your own company", "gain financial freedom", "do what I say and you will be successful like me", all of this is crap. I would never want to be successful like some of these managers. because they have to manipulate every aspect of what they do to 1:get people in the door for an interview and 2:keep them there with their delusional ideas of the success one can achieve when working in these offices.

They keep you isolated from your family, friends, and any outside influence that may "neg" you out about the business. So many people lie to their friends and family about what they are actually doing and how much money they are making. People live with managers and several other employees, the more people from the office living together the better as far as the managers are concerned. Because they can control what is going on and what these people hear, do, and see on a daily basis. They spend 10-14 hours a day "working" and the rest of the time is maybe some dinner, a movie then sleep. Just to wake up again and do it all over. It is complete control over all the employees.

As for the managers being able to do what they will just because it is THEIR company. That is bullshit, no matter what business you are in the manager/owner has a moral responsibility to treat the employees with respect, honesty, and integrity...at the very least be honest with them. MOST of the cydcor/dsmax owners do NOT have any of these qualities. Some may, but how many different offices from different countries do you see negative reports on in this web-site. ALOT...so, what does that tell you?

It tells me that just because all of the offices are independently owned and operated dosn't mean they they are operated differently. How do you think this horribly company called dsmax has been around for so long...BECAUSE THEY ALL TEACH THE SAME s**t TO EVERYONE!! That is why they are so "successful," but only at ruining the lives of the many people that foolishly think they will find success with these companies. The things they teach,chant,say and do ...all of these practices are proven techniques to manipulate people into believing there is some golden opportunity that can be reached only through this company. Its all bullshit.

As for these posts no having any affect...I don't think so. If you read on you will see the posts from people who looked these companies up and found this website and DID NOT go back to the interview because of the various negative posts they read here...I would say that that is pretty good. If the posts keep even one person from going back to one of these fradulent companies then this website does have an affect on dsmax,granton, cydcor, and innovage.

The moral of the story: The way these individual companies operate is a direct result of how they are told to operate by the vp's (who the managers consult for advice daily) So the trickle down effect of all of the corrupt practices hit every manager. You may get the rare guy/gal who makes it to mgmt. and has a shred of decency, but they won't last long in a business like this. As for moving on and getting over it. I have moved on in some respects, but I will always do what I can to make sure these companies continue to get what they deserve. The truth about who they are and what they do to people.

Someone will...

First of all, they do not "force" people to stay with the company. What the do is make it so incredibly difficult to leave that you become trapped in a situation where you really have no option but to struggle day to day with no way to help yourself get out of that situation.

The managers make you dependent upon them, like you owe them something...even if you don't. They get it into your head that you cannot be successful in any other job even when you don't have enough money to buy a soda for yourself. Its like you know you are in a bad situation, but you can't do anything about it.

It is a fantasy company. The managers project this image of future success and financial freedom if you do what they say. 99% of the time you will not achieve this success. but they string you along for weeks and months at a time. Always dangling the ace up their sleeve..."own your own company", "gain financial freedom", "do what I say and you will be successful like me", all of this is crap. I would never want to be successful like some of these managers. because they have to manipulate every aspect of what they do to 1:get people in the door for an interview and 2:keep them there with their delusional ideas of the success one can achieve when working in these offices.

They keep you isolated from your family, friends, and any outside influence that may "neg" you out about the business. So many people lie to their friends and family about what they are actually doing and how much money they are making. People live with managers and several other employees, the more people from the office living together the better as far as the managers are concerned. Because they can control what is going on and what these people hear, do, and see on a daily basis. They spend 10-14 hours a day "working" and the rest of the time is maybe some dinner, a movie then sleep. Just to wake up again and do it all over. It is complete control over all the employees.

As for the managers being able to do what they will just because it is THEIR company. That is bullshit, no matter what business you are in the manager/owner has a moral responsibility to treat the employees with respect, honesty, and integrity...at the very least be honest with them. MOST of the cydcor/dsmax owners do NOT have any of these qualities. Some may, but how many different offices from different countries do you see negative reports on in this web-site. ALOT...so, what does that tell you?

It tells me that just because all of the offices are independently owned and operated dosn't mean they they are operated differently. How do you think this horribly company called dsmax has been around for so long...BECAUSE THEY ALL TEACH THE SAME s**t TO EVERYONE!! That is why they are so "successful," but only at ruining the lives of the many people that foolishly think they will find success with these companies. The things they teach,chant,say and do ...all of these practices are proven techniques to manipulate people into believing there is some golden opportunity that can be reached only through this company. Its all bullshit.

As for these posts no having any affect...I don't think so. If you read on you will see the posts from people who looked these companies up and found this website and DID NOT go back to the interview because of the various negative posts they read here...I would say that that is pretty good. If the posts keep even one person from going back to one of these fradulent companies then this website does have an affect on dsmax,granton, cydcor, and innovage.

The moral of the story: The way these individual companies operate is a direct result of how they are told to operate by the vp's (who the managers consult for advice daily) So the trickle down effect of all of the corrupt practices hit every manager. You may get the rare guy/gal who makes it to mgmt. and has a shred of decency, but they won't last long in a business like this. As for moving on and getting over it. I have moved on in some respects, but I will always do what I can to make sure these companies continue to get what they deserve. The truth about who they are and what they do to people.

Someone will...

First of all, they do not "force" people to stay with the company. What the do is make it so incredibly difficult to leave that you become trapped in a situation where you really have no option but to struggle day to day with no way to help yourself get out of that situation.

The managers make you dependent upon them, like you owe them something...even if you don't. They get it into your head that you cannot be successful in any other job even when you don't have enough money to buy a soda for yourself. Its like you know you are in a bad situation, but you can't do anything about it.

It is a fantasy company. The managers project this image of future success and financial freedom if you do what they say. 99% of the time you will not achieve this success. but they string you along for weeks and months at a time. Always dangling the ace up their sleeve..."own your own company", "gain financial freedom", "do what I say and you will be successful like me", all of this is crap. I would never want to be successful like some of these managers. because they have to manipulate every aspect of what they do to 1:get people in the door for an interview and 2:keep them there with their delusional ideas of the success one can achieve when working in these offices.

They keep you isolated from your family, friends, and any outside influence that may "neg" you out about the business. So many people lie to their friends and family about what they are actually doing and how much money they are making. People live with managers and several other employees, the more people from the office living together the better as far as the managers are concerned. Because they can control what is going on and what these people hear, do, and see on a daily basis. They spend 10-14 hours a day "working" and the rest of the time is maybe some dinner, a movie then sleep. Just to wake up again and do it all over. It is complete control over all the employees.

As for the managers being able to do what they will just because it is THEIR company. That is bullshit, no matter what business you are in the manager/owner has a moral responsibility to treat the employees with respect, honesty, and integrity...at the very least be honest with them. MOST of the cydcor/dsmax owners do NOT have any of these qualities. Some may, but how many different offices from different countries do you see negative reports on in this web-site. ALOT...so, what does that tell you?

It tells me that just because all of the offices are independently owned and operated dosn't mean they they are operated differently. How do you think this horribly company called dsmax has been around for so long...BECAUSE THEY ALL TEACH THE SAME s**t TO EVERYONE!! That is why they are so "successful," but only at ruining the lives of the many people that foolishly think they will find success with these companies. The things they teach,chant,say and do ...all of these practices are proven techniques to manipulate people into believing there is some golden opportunity that can be reached only through this company. Its all bullshit.

As for these posts no having any affect...I don't think so. If you read on you will see the posts from people who looked these companies up and found this website and DID NOT go back to the interview because of the various negative posts they read here...I would say that that is pretty good. If the posts keep even one person from going back to one of these fradulent companies then this website does have an affect on dsmax,granton, cydcor, and innovage.

The moral of the story: The way these individual companies operate is a direct result of how they are told to operate by the vp's (who the managers consult for advice daily) So the trickle down effect of all of the corrupt practices hit every manager. You may get the rare guy/gal who makes it to mgmt. and has a shred of decency, but they won't last long in a business like this. As for moving on and getting over it. I have moved on in some respects, but I will always do what I can to make sure these companies continue to get what they deserve. The truth about who they are and what they do to people.

Someone will...

First of all, they do not "force" people to stay with the company. What the do is make it so incredibly difficult to leave that you become trapped in a situation where you really have no option but to struggle day to day with no way to help yourself get out of that situation.

The managers make you dependent upon them, like you owe them something...even if you don't. They get it into your head that you cannot be successful in any other job even when you don't have enough money to buy a soda for yourself. Its like you know you are in a bad situation, but you can't do anything about it.

It is a fantasy company. The managers project this image of future success and financial freedom if you do what they say. 99% of the time you will not achieve this success. but they string you along for weeks and months at a time. Always dangling the ace up their sleeve..."own your own company", "gain financial freedom", "do what I say and you will be successful like me", all of this is crap. I would never want to be successful like some of these managers. because they have to manipulate every aspect of what they do to 1:get people in the door for an interview and 2:keep them there with their delusional ideas of the success one can achieve when working in these offices.

They keep you isolated from your family, friends, and any outside influence that may "neg" you out about the business. So many people lie to their friends and family about what they are actually doing and how much money they are making. People live with managers and several other employees, the more people from the office living together the better as far as the managers are concerned. Because they can control what is going on and what these people hear, do, and see on a daily basis. They spend 10-14 hours a day "working" and the rest of the time is maybe some dinner, a movie then sleep. Just to wake up again and do it all over. It is complete control over all the employees.

As for the managers being able to do what they will just because it is THEIR company. That is bullshit, no matter what business you are in the manager/owner has a moral responsibility to treat the employees with respect, honesty, and integrity...at the very least be honest with them. MOST of the cydcor/dsmax owners do NOT have any of these qualities. Some may, but how many different offices from different countries do you see negative reports on in this web-site. ALOT...so, what does that tell you?

It tells me that just because all of the offices are independently owned and operated dosn't mean they they are operated differently. How do you think this horribly company called dsmax has been around for so long...BECAUSE THEY ALL TEACH THE SAME s**t TO EVERYONE!! That is why they are so "successful," but only at ruining the lives of the many people that foolishly think they will find success with these companies. The things they teach,chant,say and do ...all of these practices are proven techniques to manipulate people into believing there is some golden opportunity that can be reached only through this company. Its all bullshit.

As for these posts no having any affect...I don't think so. If you read on you will see the posts from people who looked these companies up and found this website and DID NOT go back to the interview because of the various negative posts they read here...I would say that that is pretty good. If the posts keep even one person from going back to one of these fradulent companies then this website does have an affect on dsmax,granton, cydcor, and innovage.

The moral of the story: The way these individual companies operate is a direct result of how they are told to operate by the vp's (who the managers consult for advice daily) So the trickle down effect of all of the corrupt practices hit every manager. You may get the rare guy/gal who makes it to mgmt. and has a shred of decency, but they won't last long in a business like this. As for moving on and getting over it. I have moved on in some respects, but I will always do what I can to make sure these companies continue to get what they deserve. The truth about who they are and what they do to people.

You guys are funny. If you didn't like working there, then why didn't you leave? Oh, I know, because "they forced you to work". Or something like that. If you've already left, good for you, move on.

On to the good stuff. Do you really think that A) Posting messages on here does anything. B) Nobody is successful in completing the management training program?

There are roughly (and this is not exaggerated like some of the people do on here) 90-110 cydcor offices in the country, 30 of which are doing the Quill campaign. Now, do all 90-110 do well? No. Of course not. It's not a fantasy company. What it is, however, is (I know this word will strike up some conversation) an opportunity. Which means that some people will do exteremly well, and some people won't. Its that simple. At every level, some people will do well, some won't.

As for owners bullshiting you or lying to you, I have some bad news. Its their company, they can do what they want. They don't answer to anyone. Therefore, just because an owner in Chicago lied, doesn't mean that should reflect on an owner in Texas. The reason that they all have different company names is because....drum roll please....they are all different companies owned by different people. Cydcor licenses them to work with their clients. So, to complain about Cydcor is rather silly, as they don't have much to do with the way other people run their companies. Also, to complain about owners or companies that you didn't have direct contact with is silly, for the same reasons.

Now, as to why I am qualified to write this. I went through the field (took me 14 months and I went in debt about $12,000). I made it to management, opened my own office and company. I did fairly well for about six months(saved about $30,000). Then I did fairly poorly for about the next year(went through the 30k saved, went in debt about $4k and then worked my way back in the the positives up to about $7k). As you can see, I clearly didn't do as well as I had hoped. But all I asked for was a shot, and I got it. At this point, I decided to shut down my company and look at other options. I wouldn't trade the experiences and relationships I've built over the last three years for anything.

The moral of the story is: It is what it is. Live with it. Don't be bitter, it isn't becoming.

Joe,

I worked with you at Apex...we went on the Scranton road trip together. I am glad to see someone else who worked there post here on this web-site.

I have written some more posts about all of the corrupt activities that went on down there in Philly. just search through the posts for Apex. and Universal Online Promotions.

Joe only worked there for a few months, but I was trapped down there for over a year. I am on a personal mission to bring to light all of the lying, decieving, and mental abuse that went on in that office by the manager Stefan Mainhart and his "boss" Raf Diaz who has an office in Manhattan.

Joe, I would like to apologize to Joe for any of the mindless bullshit that came out of my mouth when I was running that roadtrip...
Anyway, good to see other ex-Apex employees here on the ripoff report...

I saw a response from a man named Jon about a job with SC Marketing Group, and I would like to know how it turned out? I have an interview and I am now very skeptical about attending. i called to set up an interview and got one for the very next day, the receptionist would not lend me any information about the company, i went the BBB's website, and found that the company is called HL Associates, 164 Sears Avenue
Louisville, KY 40207. I would like any information about the company. I asked for a website and they told me to go to Sydcor.com (not Cydcor) is this the same company? any information would be greatly appreciated! Thanks

Your superb spelling skills? The way you spelled experience is simply mind boggling. Good for you! JUICE!

Anyway, I was the one who started this report a year and a half ago and I'm glad that it's helped at least a few people see through all the BS. I pity the fool who works for this company because there are better things you can do with your life. I had a great job working with children for awhile and now I'm working with a non-profit organization that means a lot to me. I urge everyone who is fed up with companies like this to follow their dreams and find something that makes you happy and has a positive affect on society.

Either you're a part of the problem or a part of the solution. What's your contribution to life?

I'd like to say that I've been in the business for over a year now and it's been nothing but good to me. I used to think the only way to achieve anything and be successful was to pay $20,000 in tuition fees. I paid $15,000 for nothing and it was hard to find a job. This company has taught me how to run a business and the best part is the freedom. I've been an owner for 8 months know and this is the best thing that's every hapened to me. My boyfriend and I clear over 150 k per yr and don't have to do any work. Sure we sacrifaced alot, but those people were just holding us down anyways.

All we kneed is each other and the business. We keep the top guys, the new juicy guys and people with potential in our office happy. We call them on weekends, hang out with them to see how their doing. Sure we have high turnover, but we only keep the guys that want to be in the business. We get rid of the guys and girls that don't want to work hard.

And to show you how good we are, this girl in a similar situation as I was, in debt because of university, came to us for part-time job in February. Sure it was still snowing a bit and cold, but she was willing to endure it. She didn't become a leader until April, but we've already promoted to her assistant manager and is willing to sacriface to get to the top. JUICE BY HER! She's making good dough and I think going back to school would be a big mistake. Hopefully, she'll make the wise choice and stay with us. The business is better than school. More money more expierense!!

JUICE JUICE JUICE!

I had literally come right out of college and went into this job. they promised me all sorts of money. my interview was in the upper darby office. apex marketing was there name. i was in there for a total of 5 months. i was doin great the first month on road trips and everything, but then it all seemed to fade away. i lost site of the job because i didn't enjoy walking miles a day and not allowed to leave the office till 8:00 at night. the best part was when you didn't have money the manager would give you some. ha ha that was great. i knew people who would ask for a few hundred bucks and never come back. serves them right. its how they like to keep you locked in. like you owe them something for them giving you money. i regret fully that i even went into that interview. i figured i would get a job because a family member of mine was sick, and my family needed the money so seeing a chance to make $100,000 in a year would sound great to anyone. but i never got to see my family or my girlfriend. i had no friends but the people in the office. i started to see how sick this job was and how delusional i was. i got out of there at the right time. i had decided to go back to college when i quit and i have never been happier. i would also like to know if anyone on here worked at the upper darby office or is now in the Philadelphia one. i also went on road trips to NYC,baltimore,north carolina,virginia and long island. i would like to talk to others who have quit that i may have met. thanks

I had literally come right out of college and went into this job. they promised me all sorts of money. my interview was in the upper darby office. apex marketing was there name. i was in there for a total of 5 months. i was doin great the first month on road trips and everything, but then it all seemed to fade away. i lost site of the job because i didn't enjoy walking miles a day and not allowed to leave the office till 8:00 at night. the best part was when you didn't have money the manager would give you some. ha ha that was great. i knew people who would ask for a few hundred bucks and never come back. serves them right. its how they like to keep you locked in. like you owe them something for them giving you money. i regret fully that i even went into that interview. i figured i would get a job because a family member of mine was sick, and my family needed the money so seeing a chance to make $100,000 in a year would sound great to anyone. but i never got to see my family or my girlfriend. i had no friends but the people in the office. i started to see how sick this job was and how delusional i was. i got out of there at the right time. i had decided to go back to college when i quit and i have never been happier. i would also like to know if anyone on here worked at the upper darby office or is now in the Philadelphia one. i also went on road trips to NYC,baltimore,north carolina,virginia and long island. i would like to talk to others who have quit that i may have met. thanks

I had literally come right out of college and went into this job. they promised me all sorts of money. my interview was in the upper darby office. apex marketing was there name. i was in there for a total of 5 months. i was doin great the first month on road trips and everything, but then it all seemed to fade away. i lost site of the job because i didn't enjoy walking miles a day and not allowed to leave the office till 8:00 at night. the best part was when you didn't have money the manager would give you some. ha ha that was great. i knew people who would ask for a few hundred bucks and never come back. serves them right. its how they like to keep you locked in. like you owe them something for them giving you money. i regret fully that i even went into that interview. i figured i would get a job because a family member of mine was sick, and my family needed the money so seeing a chance to make $100,000 in a year would sound great to anyone. but i never got to see my family or my girlfriend. i had no friends but the people in the office. i started to see how sick this job was and how delusional i was. i got out of there at the right time. i had decided to go back to college when i quit and i have never been happier. i would also like to know if anyone on here worked at the upper darby office or is now in the Philadelphia one. i also went on road trips to NYC,baltimore,north carolina,virginia and long island. i would like to talk to others who have quit that i may have met. thanks

I had literally come right out of college and went into this job. they promised me all sorts of money. my interview was in the upper darby office. apex marketing was there name. i was in there for a total of 5 months. i was doin great the first month on road trips and everything, but then it all seemed to fade away. i lost site of the job because i didn't enjoy walking miles a day and not allowed to leave the office till 8:00 at night. the best part was when you didn't have money the manager would give you some. ha ha that was great. i knew people who would ask for a few hundred bucks and never come back. serves them right. its how they like to keep you locked in. like you owe them something for them giving you money. i regret fully that i even went into that interview. i figured i would get a job because a family member of mine was sick, and my family needed the money so seeing a chance to make $100,000 in a year would sound great to anyone. but i never got to see my family or my girlfriend. i had no friends but the people in the office. i started to see how sick this job was and how delusional i was. i got out of there at the right time. i had decided to go back to college when i quit and i have never been happier. i would also like to know if anyone on here worked at the upper darby office or is now in the Philadelphia one. i also went on road trips to NYC,baltimore,north carolina,virginia and long island. i would like to talk to others who have quit that i may have met. thanks

So I just got back from my second interview. You know, the one where you "shadow" one of the top guys to get a feel for how the day will go. Well, the guy who trained me was with the company for about three months. I was also not told that the job was 100% commision. Needless to say after that point I had just made up my mind to mess with this guy all day. This was fun because this guy drank the company cool-aide. He was such a team player. I asked him what type of training he received and he said this, meaning one day on the road with another "salesman". I thought back to the office, and yes it was just a temporary space until the Chicago location opened. There were these girls all dressed in high heels ready for their first day of marketing. Somebody should have told them to wear some track shoes and get ready to drive/walk around economically depressed areas selling water coolers for "Malloy International". This kid tried to give me all the pep talks. You know..."It is up to you how much money you want to make"..."What scares you about 100% commision"..."Im making more money than I know what to do with". Oh yeah, I also found out that this guy lives with his parents, is on thier insurance, and really has no concept about taxes and reporting expenses to the IRS. Now that I have went on my little rant here is my point. If you are lucky enough to be reading any of this before your first or even second interview then dont go. I found this site after my second interview. Had I read it I woudlnt have went in a million years. I know that job marktet is tough but getting in on this pyramid scheme isnt worth your time.

Daniel,

All your owner is doing is biding time. The fact that he CAN retain you in his business after you having seen this site is a feather in his cap. He must be a good talker.

Leadership can't be forced. It must be desired by the individual. The longer you hang around the atmosphere and get inundated with the pyschology, the more you will come around to wanting to be a leader.

In the mean time you help pay his bills.

If you quit, oh well, you made him some money. If you want to get to leadership, you will help him grow - but most likely never grow your self beyond the leadership phase. Maybe before you go back to school you will hire one or two other people for him.

Be very sure about taxes. Don't just follow blindly the I can write off everything at the end of the year line. You can't. There is no free lunch.

Good luck to you.

Daniel,

All your owner is doing is biding time. The fact that he CAN retain you in his business after you having seen this site is a feather in his cap. He must be a good talker.

Leadership can't be forced. It must be desired by the individual. The longer you hang around the atmosphere and get inundated with the pyschology, the more you will come around to wanting to be a leader.

In the mean time you help pay his bills.

If you quit, oh well, you made him some money. If you want to get to leadership, you will help him grow - but most likely never grow your self beyond the leadership phase. Maybe before you go back to school you will hire one or two other people for him.

Be very sure about taxes. Don't just follow blindly the I can write off everything at the end of the year line. You can't. There is no free lunch.

Good luck to you.

Daniel,

All your owner is doing is biding time. The fact that he CAN retain you in his business after you having seen this site is a feather in his cap. He must be a good talker.

Leadership can't be forced. It must be desired by the individual. The longer you hang around the atmosphere and get inundated with the pyschology, the more you will come around to wanting to be a leader.

In the mean time you help pay his bills.

If you quit, oh well, you made him some money. If you want to get to leadership, you will help him grow - but most likely never grow your self beyond the leadership phase. Maybe before you go back to school you will hire one or two other people for him.

Be very sure about taxes. Don't just follow blindly the I can write off everything at the end of the year line. You can't. There is no free lunch.

Good luck to you.

Daniel,

All your owner is doing is biding time. The fact that he CAN retain you in his business after you having seen this site is a feather in his cap. He must be a good talker.

Leadership can't be forced. It must be desired by the individual. The longer you hang around the atmosphere and get inundated with the pyschology, the more you will come around to wanting to be a leader.

In the mean time you help pay his bills.

If you quit, oh well, you made him some money. If you want to get to leadership, you will help him grow - but most likely never grow your self beyond the leadership phase. Maybe before you go back to school you will hire one or two other people for him.

Be very sure about taxes. Don't just follow blindly the I can write off everything at the end of the year line. You can't. There is no free lunch.

Good luck to you.

If you're just in the business for a job and not the so~called opportunity, you'll probably be okay. I am glad however to hear you say that this is just a short term JOB until you get a better one.

If you WERE in it for the so~ called, "opportunity," trust and believe, you wouldn't get, "promoted," if you were to, tell your boss your limits, as you put it. In fact the owners I knew didn't mind having people like you around because you still make them money.

Just curious, do you go to the office for the "atmosphere?" You know those few hours before and after your already long day that you don't get paid for?

Your coming bacc at us with the tax crap info as you put it, looks like typical dsmax programming which as usual doesn't add up to anything because it's like comparing apples to oranges. Even with the taxes, you can't be making more than him.

Thanks for you advice and comprehension guys but... Do not forget that I am only a student and that I am using this for a short term job until i get a better one. Also, dont forget that 50k-taxes and all the crap that comes with it makes it an awful lot less than 50k. Here, the boss is very understanding. I told him that I was going to use my car twice a week and when I already did and he asks me I say no and its O.K. I told him that I wasnt gonna work on saturdays and it's O.K. I am not getting hooked here, I even told him that I didnt wnat to become leader and he said fine . hehe cause I knew I'd have to pay neew recruits and trust e I didnt wnat to cause I worked for that money. Well I was just saying...Some of the people here are placing complaints about this company and they might be right at times but some things can be avoided if you stand up to your bosses and tell'em your limits. Anyway thanks for your responses guys! see ya'll! For me the important thing is having fun and my group is awesome so I'll stick around for a bit.

Dan, I appreciate that you were able to give a somewhat honest account of what it takes to make it in shaky marketing endeavors (i.e. an aptitude for sales). I hope you convey that reality to potential recruits down the road, but you'll probably find yourself recruitless if you do.

I think you need to check your figures. You say you're making $110 a day, and also that you're making more than your brother, who makes more than 50k per year. Unfortunately, these two statements cannot stand together. At $110 per day, if you were working every day of the year, you would still be making more than 10k less per year than your brother. Given that you state you stick to 40-50 hour weeks, I'm assuming that you work 5 day weeks, which would actually place your yearly income around 25k, less than half of what your brother makes.

Income statements from MLM agents are worthless. The whole field has been impeached. To give you all the benefit of the doubt that I am wiling to give, I would imagine that $110 days are the good days, and the average is somewhat less than that, say around $80. I've been in a field making money on a day-to-day basis before, and I know that when you want to impress people with how much money you make you give them the "good day" figure. Reducing our figures further, your income would stand at about 18k per year.

Now, given that your brother probably enjoys many benefits that you don't (paid sick days, health insurance, 401k, possibly bonuses) I will wager that his total annual compensation is at least 54k.

When reality is figured in, your brother probably makes three times as much money in a year as you do, as opposed to you making more than him. Even figuring generously he's probably making twice as much.

All in all, you sound like you're doing alright. I hope everything keeps working out for you. Just don't let that marketing fog cloud your brain too much.

Daniel, Actually there is probably more people that USED to think it was a great company than what think it is now. If you are in it for the so~called opportunity, I sincerely hope that you read as many of the reports on here as you possibly can. You'll find that it has nothing to do with, "Having it in you," or not because you will find numerous accounts of people who worked their way through the ranks, became owners and realized then that in actuality, you never really own anything at all, you get very little time off & there's no benefits. The people who get to that point are few and far between and you can't tell me that none of those tens of thousands of people, "didn't have the sales ability," to make it in a ligitimate sales career or in a business of their own.

You make $110.00 a day. I take it that that means that you have not made it into, "leadership," yet. With this so~called business, what the word leadership means is that instead of the company paying the new employees, the so~called leader you} will have to pay them. In my office, that amount was $40.00 a day. At that rate, you're making 350.00 per week. That's before taxes, car insurance, gas and medical/dental/vision insurance. All of that is your responsibility.

As for not having to drive everyday, that will change. You've been there a month. You are still in the honeymoon phase. They are still dangling the opportunity worm in front of you. Once they have you hooked all the way, they will soon pull the string gently and, slowly but surely, reel you all the way in. It will be so gradual, you won't even be aware that they have you hook, line and sinker {mind, body and soul.}

Also, please tell me how at $110.00 a day you're making more than $50,000.00 a year? Oh yeah, that's right, that's dsmax math. The only thing that compares with their math ability is their spelling and grammer!

Well atlease SOME people agree that this is a great company. I work for them right now in Moncton, NB..Well DSMAX is our distributor. This job rocks and people are very understanding. People who quit and are complaining at the moment are people who didnt try or simply, don't have sales blood in you. I've been there for a month now, YES they wnated to use my car at the beginning but unlikee others like you, I told them that i was gonna use it once a week for the job and they said O>K. I'm making 110$ per day in my pockets and no I'm not working 65hours per week, I stick to 40-45hrs. People who get mad are pople who let themselves be controlled and absorb everything that they either they like it or not. I stick up to myself when they tell me something I don't like and guess what?! They listen to me and they wnat to eep me because not alot of people stay because they are afraid to speak up. Another thing, around here, I get telled off by an owner once a week maybe less...All of new brunswick love us and are happy to see us when we walk in their business..their first words are "What do you have for us today!!"....If you have salesman blood in you,like to talk to people and is very money oriented, this job is for you. If you say no to any of those 3 questions then dont even go...but this job is the best I've ever got and the experience is awesome and it looks good ona resume. I'm only 19 and I am making more money than my brother who is a computer programmer and making over 50k per year and he has univeristy degree, I have nothing. So all you people than are disgusted by this company well keep it for yourself cause i guess it just wasnt for you.

I was "employed" if thats what you want to call it, by ds-max for 18 months. from the beginning i was skeptical and going into thier office only made me more so. It was in the middle of nowhere and the first day all i saw was screaming idiots. Then i was wisked away in a car with a "leader" packed down with boxes leaving little room to sit. When i questioned him about where we were going and what was all the stuff for i was told very little. When we arrived where we were to work for the day he loaded me up with plastic piano keyboards and told me to follow him. He pitched people everywhere, in stores, in streets, in cars. We were yelled at by shop owners and had the police called on us. At the end of the day he had a very large sum of money in his pockets and stated" see how much you can make". After the second day when having my own large sum of money was dissapointed to learn that i did not get to keep all of it. I walked away from a 10 hour day with $24 in my pocket. I could not afford my apartment after a month because i wasnt making anything. So the Owner was NICE enough to let me move in with him, and 12 other people that worked in the office, all in a 3 br townhouse. I was only charged $6 a day for rent. after two weeks i was promoted to "leadership" and could start taking people out on my 10 mile a day walks trough parts of town we had never been. I felt bad decieving these people and keeping them in the dark till the last minute then telling them "You can work with me today or walk back to the office" I had 3 leaders on my team and was starting to realize that no matter what i did i was still going to be broke. I walked away with virtually nothing after 18 months. My car had 20,000 more miles on it and my bank account was 0. This whole dream that you can be an owner and make millions is just that...a dream. I gave it a more than fair try. I ate, slept, an talked, "JUICE" I was the top leader in my office for several months.Every time i asked if it was my turn at ownership the reply would simply be "NOT YET".

My experiance wasn't quite as bad as several others that have posted on this website, but it was still deceiving none the less. I saw an add for Lear Marketing Group looking for some people to work in customer service and a management trainee program.

I went a head and applied through the link on the website. Within a few hours, I received a blanket email asking me to call 614-846-xxxx to set up an interview.

I called and they were very eager to get me in, so they set me up for the next business day. Now, some people have talked about rundown offices in the ghetto and stuff. Well this office was a brand new building in a very upscale suburban area of town. It had 3 rooms with music coming out of one room. The receptionist was very nice and seemed very professional. But the app seemed just thrown together.

Now I was told I'd be interviewed by the business owner, but when I got there, they said he was at another office in NC that day, and I was interviewed by an early twentysomething asst manager named Sara. She didn't give much info about the job and she said that all my questions would be answered if they invited me back to the second interview which was to shadow an agent in the field.

I was definitely naive and said ok. Of course that afternoon, I heard back that they wanted to have me come back for that part. I went out with the agent and then found out it was all commision sales going door to door. That agent that day told me that he always averaged to make $200+ a day. But, I got a real uncomfortable feeling about it when he started the Quill pitch. He became real pushy and I could tell the business people that we saw that day were becoming annoyed. He told me on the way back to "Atmosphere" that he had to make a certain amount in sales to get to ring the bell. "Atmosphere" completely pushed me over and it became apparent that there was some brainwashing going on.

I have been in plenty of sales positions where I was dealing with setting up million dollar accounts for actual services such as transportation and yet only had to work 40 hours a week from 8:00 to 5:00.

This day which was a waste of my time that could have been spent on other more important things lasted from 7:30 AM to 8:00 PM. Now I'm not against working hard, but I don't believe any job should take that much time out of your day. Needless to say, that trainer that took me out had been in the company for 2 years.

Now the interviewer told me that in 6 months I'd be in management and would not have to go out into the field again. She failed to tell me that only a minute percentage of the people actually will get into management, she just told me that I would. After reading all the other posts here, I will make sure I steer anyone I meet away from pursuing this "opportunity".

I found this website too late for me, but hopefully it will not fall on deaf ears. I started in an office in Florida and advanced quickly. Becoming a leader in just 2 weeks I found that I had a knack for the business, putting the first day of observation on my team, getting overrides, running campaigns, building my team. Finally, I put together a team and was promoted to Ownership! I thought THIS IS IT MAN!!!! I finally arrived...... That was the begining of the end.

Running a business requires you to either date or marry someone in the business, devote 7 days a week, have little or no "real" cash to spend, (because it costs THOUSANDS of dollars to run all the ads to get us in the door in the first place!), and take no vacations because who will be there to "juice-up" your office if your not there? because believe me you will NOT HAVE TIME to do anything else that really makes a quality life worth living....and that's the time we spend with love ones.( Of course that's just my opinion) If you are still involved with the business after reading ALL of the pros/cons in this forum, I suggest that you ask yourself some insightful questions as to was it is that you are REALLY involved with. For yoursake I hope you heed just a fraction of advice from anyone involved in this site.

It has taken me YEARS (4 to be exact) to realize what it ultimately cost me emotionally, physically, financially, in my relationships, and what it ultimatly cost my family/loved ones by believing in the deceptions and half-truths told by ALMOST everyone associated with DS-MAX, Granton, Cydcor, Vice-presidents, and especially my promoting manager.

Thank you for taking the time to read this, it feels really good to FINALLY get this weight off of my chest.

I am also an ex-owner, if that is what you want to call it. I feel so much better reading what everyone is saying. It did ruin my life for a little while ( debt, taxes, time, marriage, etc.), but I do have to admit, one thing I did learn that I will take with me forever in everything that I do is work ethic. Yes, I believed and with hard work it did pay off. Unfortunately, when I got there it wasn't what I expected. No big deal! Life goes on. Bottom line is that it isn't for everyone, but you do not have to talk bad about the peaple who are doing it and ruining his or her dream, no matter what it is. Leave this company alone and let them find out for themselves if it is good for them or not. It didn't work out for me, but noone can take away what I learned from this company. And I am very successful today!

steve, Baltimore

WOW!!!! Check this out. Last week one morning I applied for a position on monster.com. The ad read (and is still there I might add) "Experience & no degree? Degree & no experience, will train" Posted 3 or for times in a row. & the same thing is posted for this company called Velocity Marketing.

I then ran some quick errands, & came home to find a message from a "Silvia" on my answering machine. She said, "Hi this is Silvia calling from Velocity Marketing & I'm interested in you coming in for a preliminary interview. Please give me a call back so we can schedule that. My number is (404)873-****. Again this is Silvia from Marketing Endeavors." (Caller ID said Marketing Endeavors) I got a bit suspicious when she switched the name on me like that, so I decided not to return that call. The VERY next day I got a call from her again asking for an interview, & then again later in the day from a "Jennifer" in which I decided not to return their call.

So just today, I thought it over and for some STUPID reason, I decided to call. Jennifer answered the phone & I told her that I was contacted, & she immeadatly scheduled me for an interview at 11:30 tommorrow morning. Only thing was there was so much static on the phone that I had to ask her 2wice what time I was supposed to come. Then she said she was having phone problems. "Jennifer" then called me back at around 6:30pm (a bit past regular business hours in my opinion)in order to ask if I received her e-mail with directions. I then checked my e-mail & instead of Jennifers name as the sender, I saw a "Crystal". Now I got even more suspicious. Soooooooo just tonight I looked up their website www.marketingendeavors.com, which really gives no clue as to what it is all about, or what jobs that are available. Then I wandered upon this site by doing a google search & I'm soooo glad that I did!! Also looked at the Cydcor site too. Made my decision, I won't be showing up tommorrow for this interview. After graduating college, I don't have time for a BOGUS company like this one. I gotta pay my student loans back.

Scamming people like this is just so wrong & they should be ashamed of themselves. But people with no morals & values just don't care, they're just out for the $$$$$$$. What a bunch of CRAP!!!

Thanks for the info everyone!

Today I interviewed at "Top Flight Enterprises", a Pittsburgh based "Marketing Firm" which is actually a subsidiary of Cydcor (or one of its subsidiaries). Before leaving for my interview I called my Temp Agent, that is, the person helping me to locate a nice managment job. After giving him the update on my daily plans, I was told that I should be weary of this company and that, unless I was planning on doing door to door sales, I should just go there for the experience of observing their recriuting process. He gave me the list of "red flags", and sure enough, Top Flight got every one of them.

I arrived in the "HR Department" of Top Flight Enterprises around 2pm. Upon opening the glass doors, I was greeted with blairing rock music coming from the side office where there appeared to be some type of party. I was instructed to fill out a crudley put-together employment application and to wait for a HR representative. The receptionist was less than friendly, and oddly, had nothing but a phone and a binder full of applications on her desk. No computer, no paperwork, no filing cabinets, no office supplies... you get the picture

Eventually the 21 year old "businessman", emerged from the party-room to take me into the other (the only other) office. He spewed an endless amount of jargon and buzz-words that meant absolutely nothing to me. Though I have many years of managment experience and am almost done with my business degree, I had absolutely no idea what kind of managment position he was offering me. He never gave me a chance to ask questions about the company, but instead went directly from his sales pitch into setting up my next interview, which he said, "...is a little bit different from a traditional interview. You'll want to wear comfortable shoes."... so I've heard. I decided that I wasn't going to go into this next "interactive" interview without any background information, so I forced in a few choice questions.

"What kind of benefits package does your company offer?"
"Would I be paid salary or by the hour?"
"How much time each day would be spent walking?"

Those questions worked like a charm. The interviewer became noticibly flustered at each of my questions and told me that everything would be explained to me at my next interview. I should expect a call around 4:30... I ran across this site just before 4:00. Lucky for them, they never called.

Roxanne, in regards to your day off, let's hope that someone does not pass away in your family, cause by juice, youre gonna work!!!! NO NEGATIVES!!!!!

And as for a wedding, and being in your sisters wedding as the usher, don't you think that a day off on Saturday is not unreasonable? I am so glad that I quit. Unlike the "manager" of that bloodsucking CULT, I would have never, ever took his hard earned money away from him. She basically stole it. Thief comes to mind.

Are you a thief? Are you a liar? Are you inconsiderate of you fellow man? Would you swindle your own mother/father/sister/brother? If you are, you are ds-mas' greatest asset. Don't tell me about all the bullshit, remember, I worked endlessly and tirelessly for this company for over six months.

I have kids, didn't want to move to PA to open an office in the middle of the year. Guess what, because I put my kids first, (something a mother is always supposed to do), I had a shitty attitude. OK I fell for it, but don't tell me that some kid, who sold over 500 pieces that week, deserves to have his money stolen from him, just because his sister is getting married and he is part of the wedding party. And it was STOLEN from him

If you and your boyfriend get married, don't expect a honey moon, cause that'll cut into ds-max profit. And having children? Hope you can apply for medicaid, cause you aint getting health insurance unless you buy it yourself.

I hope you have a real juicey day in the pits, not earning anything while I laugh all the way to the bank with my paycheck and visit the Dr for a checkup just because I can:)

Suck on that juice!

Roxanne, in regards to your day off, let's hope that someone does not pass away in your family, cause by juice, youre gonna work!!!! NO NEGATIVES!!!!!

And as for a wedding, and being in your sisters wedding as the usher, don't you think that a day off on Saturday is not unreasonable? I am so glad that I quit. Unlike the "manager" of that bloodsucking CULT, I would have never, ever took his hard earned money away from him. She basically stole it. Thief comes to mind.

Are you a thief? Are you a liar? Are you inconsiderate of you fellow man? Would you swindle your own mother/father/sister/brother? If you are, you are ds-mas' greatest asset. Don't tell me about all the bullshit, remember, I worked endlessly and tirelessly for this company for over six months.

I have kids, didn't want to move to PA to open an office in the middle of the year. Guess what, because I put my kids first, (something a mother is always supposed to do), I had a shitty attitude. OK I fell for it, but don't tell me that some kid, who sold over 500 pieces that week, deserves to have his money stolen from him, just because his sister is getting married and he is part of the wedding party. And it was STOLEN from him

If you and your boyfriend get married, don't expect a honey moon, cause that'll cut into ds-max profit. And having children? Hope you can apply for medicaid, cause you aint getting health insurance unless you buy it yourself.

I hope you have a real juicey day in the pits, not earning anything while I laugh all the way to the bank with my paycheck and visit the Dr for a checkup just because I can:)

Suck on that juice!

Roxanne, in regards to your day off, let's hope that someone does not pass away in your family, cause by juice, youre gonna work!!!! NO NEGATIVES!!!!!

And as for a wedding, and being in your sisters wedding as the usher, don't you think that a day off on Saturday is not unreasonable? I am so glad that I quit. Unlike the "manager" of that bloodsucking CULT, I would have never, ever took his hard earned money away from him. She basically stole it. Thief comes to mind.

Are you a thief? Are you a liar? Are you inconsiderate of you fellow man? Would you swindle your own mother/father/sister/brother? If you are, you are ds-mas' greatest asset. Don't tell me about all the bullshit, remember, I worked endlessly and tirelessly for this company for over six months.

I have kids, didn't want to move to PA to open an office in the middle of the year. Guess what, because I put my kids first, (something a mother is always supposed to do), I had a shitty attitude. OK I fell for it, but don't tell me that some kid, who sold over 500 pieces that week, deserves to have his money stolen from him, just because his sister is getting married and he is part of the wedding party. And it was STOLEN from him

If you and your boyfriend get married, don't expect a honey moon, cause that'll cut into ds-max profit. And having children? Hope you can apply for medicaid, cause you aint getting health insurance unless you buy it yourself.

I hope you have a real juicey day in the pits, not earning anything while I laugh all the way to the bank with my paycheck and visit the Dr for a checkup just because I can:)

Suck on that juice!

Irs not hard, so you have to put in a few xtra hours, but its like that everywere. I guess all you couldn't stand to work a litle harder and need your mommys and daddys with you. I became an owner in 4 months. And I still have relasionships with my boyfriend, he's in the busienss with me and he loves it too. We work harder today to acheive what others can't tommorow. And as for the person complaining about the person who had to go their sister's wedding, well he got the day off, but when you take a day off, you lose. You got to work hard. He obviously had a negative attitude and had to be toasted. DS-Max, Cydcor and Granton rule. Woohoo.

Juice.

I worked for this company in denver where apparently they talked about professionalism, retiring at 30, driving bmw's, whatever. comes out that only 1 per cent of the 1 per cent of managers that make it are put on pedestals. no benefits, no insurance but countless miles on your car, no expenses were credited and just coming out in big dept. the manager there was sleeping around i hear. talk about great company. yeah right. 3 months was enough for me! don't do it. i warn you.

I worked for this company in denver where apparently they talked about professionalism, retiring at 30, driving bmw's, whatever. comes out that only 1 per cent of the 1 per cent of managers that make it are put on pedestals. no benefits, no insurance but countless miles on your car, no expenses were credited and just coming out in big dept. the manager there was sleeping around i hear. talk about great company. yeah right. 3 months was enough for me! don't do it. i warn you.

I worked for this company in denver where apparently they talked about professionalism, retiring at 30, driving bmw's, whatever. comes out that only 1 per cent of the 1 per cent of managers that make it are put on pedestals. no benefits, no insurance but countless miles on your car, no expenses were credited and just coming out in big dept. the manager there was sleeping around i hear. talk about great company. yeah right. 3 months was enough for me! don't do it. i warn you.

I worked for this company in denver where apparently they talked about professionalism, retiring at 30, driving bmw's, whatever. comes out that only 1 per cent of the 1 per cent of managers that make it are put on pedestals. no benefits, no insurance but countless miles on your car, no expenses were credited and just coming out in big dept. the manager there was sleeping around i hear. talk about great company. yeah right. 3 months was enough for me! don't do it. i warn you.

I submitted my resume online to a vague job description by Vision-Globe and got a phone call 2 hours later so right there i knew something was wrong. I was called in for an interview the next day.

When i went to this interview for what was a marketing position i went in baggy pants a sweat top just to see if i would be hired regardless of a bad first impression. I was taken through one of the ugliest offices i have ever seen in my life. It had foot prints on the carpet, no furniture whatsoever once you pass the waiting roon and numerous offices with the window sills full of dust. I was taken to the main office to where the president was supposed to interview me but was not there at all so i had some 21 year old conduct this interview. This interview was so redundant and so basic i could read right through this youngster. I seen the poster on Cyndor in his office and i already knew this was a door to door position. When he tried to describe the position he literally talked garbage....he kept saying "this a marketing company....." over and over again but i'm wondering "what kind of marketing does this company do?" I was told a whole bunch of B-S companies like coca-cola contacts etc.....for those of you in Canada wondering what the position really is it's rather simple.......the company loads you up into a van drops you off in the middle of nowhere and you are expected top go around and go door-to-door selling such things as fixed rates for Enbridge Consumer gas and long distance for AT&T....what i haven't been able to explain is the tax system for something like this in canada. You are not registered under your own business so you cannot write off your expenses so in essence they come strictly out of your pay check. You are only receiving a percentage of the sale but does the seller pay tax on both his commision and also on the commision the company makes? it makes a huge difference because when filing your income tax, you may have to pay back the government a larger than expected quantity of cash. Also, if you can't write off expenses and work entirely off commision where u also have to pay for expenses out of your own pocket then that is the sign of a direct sales position. The company is totally one big scam and there was no way i was going to invest my time in this organization. For those of you in canada who are smart enough to do your research and come across this site i have told you exactly what to expect. I can tell you right now that freezing your toes off while walking in the snow during winter for what will amount to almost nothing after it's all said and done is a waste - you can make more money working at walmart.

Well i'll end off the story..i did get the job and as the interviewer said....."we are excited to have you join our team" it was all fixed speeck i was expected to go in on a Thursday and i did not show up - thank god i didn't!! What company would hire me after wearing baggy pants and a sweat top to an interview - the must be totally desperate!!

I'm an ex-employee, and I have to say the experience I gained through cydcor was very beneficial, and that I'm glad I got to work there.

I'm now in retail sales, better work hours, and door to door can be a pain. I didn't like working 60-70 hours a week for one of the cydcor child companies. Plus they wanted me to drop out of school, and do it full-time.

But I can understand why cydcor is run the way they're run. Sales can be very demoralizing, and it's a high stress position that can cause you to become very depressed easily.

Many sales people quit just because they can't go through the process of prospecting and cold calling, because of all the "no's" they get.

Cydcor is just trying to keep your spirit up.

But, they do brainwash you into believing that if you're not some charasmatic, expert salesman, that you're a loser. They also try to trick you into believing that everyone will one day move into a management position, and make hundreds of thousands of dollars a year. Don't fall for the trap of believing that 9-5'ers are losers who never move up, or have the potential to go anywhere in their corporation.

Anyways, go for the experience, and learn. The experience you learn in door to door sales (for cult companies like cydcor) is much better than anything you'll learn doing retail. These companies teach you how to be real salesmen, not some idiot who talks too much (which is what most retail salemen are like).

Mike, while you claimed to be devoid of emotion in your response, and by doing so, a position of objectivity, you managed to use the same simile that any person hears on their second interview with a DS-Max "franchise".

While DS-Max likes to consider McDonalds a reputable company to compare itself to, I do not. McDonalds has forced thousands of family owned farms out of business to sell "beef" of the lowest possible grade by people who earn minimum wage to a country that would rather blame its overwhelming obesity on various health problems.

Aside from that, DS-Max has almost nothing in common with McDonalds.

When you buy a franchise in McDonalds you are buying a name that is world reknown. There is little question that you will get a return on your investment. Among US childeren, only Santa Clause is more recognized than Ronald McDonald. Who the hell has heard of DS-Max? What kind of real, independently supported figures garauntee a DS-Max distributor's odds of getting a return on their investment?

As for turnover, I'd actually like to see those figures. I'd be willing to bet that DS-Max has a greater turnover than McDonalds (and it doesn't even have to be corrected for the discrepency in number of operational "franchises"). But we couldn't do that, since DS-Max doesn't keep a tab on these things. You might say that this is because DS-Max doesn't own the companies, that they are all independant. They certainly keep tabs on how many "companies" there are though, you would be hard-pressed to find an owner, or a speaker at a "rally" that doesn't use the claim of 15,000 owners as a recruitment tool.

You are right about multiple locations - and everyone knows it. The thing is, its not as though a McDonalds owner can earn another location simply by hiring so many "floor sweepers" who get promoted to "burger flipper". And better yet, if one of your "burger flippers" comes into a large amount of money and decides to open a McDonalds of their own they don't have to pay a percentage of their earnings to you. They do, however, have to invest a million dollars. This is not the case with DS-Max. This is the part you forgot to mention - where the "leader" becomes an "owner" and then a "VP" and makes "overrides" off of people he never even recruited or trained. It is simply a stalled pyramid.

Your return analogy is incredibly flawed. For one thing, anyone investing intelligently in something knows that they will not get an immediate return. I doubt someone who was planning on investing in a McDonalds franchise had only enough to cover the franchise fee. No, they consider the return vs. investment schedule that is based on years of compiled data. A person intersted in "investing" in DS-Max is afforded no such reliable data. They are only given bloated figures that are based more on the interviewer's desperation than actuall fact. Nice touch with the "meager salary" and "bonus form" symantics too, by the way. Why don't we just call it "profit".

The biggest difference between the two, and one you conveniently missed, is the fact that McDonalds doesn't use unsavory hiring practices. They don't ask for "Customer Relations" when hiring cashiers, or "Quality Food Engineer" when hiring burger flippers. And the people who fill those positions are not expected to work unpaid hours chanting either.

Oh, and I almost forgot, McDonalds, as detrimental as it may be to various areas of American society, doesn't hide behind different names for all its franchises - even after the owners paid a million dollars for it. Because they have no reason to. But if DS-Max is as "pure" of a system as you say, then why do they do this?

Just a little emotional nugget for you to wrap in a bun and eat.

I'm not real sure on what to say in regards to all of this rhetoric and argumentative crap going on with the exception that i will shortly find out over the next couple of days what these companies are about.

1st GEN-X promotions or Higher Image advertisement tommorrow i travel first to cincinnati to this company to see if they will be offering me a job but since i have read all of this i'll be a little more skeptical about what is going on nonetheless i would not be much of a person if i didn't check it out myself.
The 2nd group is on wednesday with SC marketing group on 1:30 in Louisville

but to say the least my degree and my resume alone should provide me with a entry level position in any communication/PR/Advertising/Marketing firm in the country no matter what the status of this company will be. I will however be taping this interview in the case that some of this woodee woo bull crap does exist and i can send this to the better business bureau for a good listening

I've finally gotten through the pages of reports on this topic, and wanted to add my two cents on Cydcor. I worked in three different offices during my 17 month tenure (DC, Boston, LA). I will not disagree with the dissenting opinions contained in these posts. I also will not contradict the success stories of the cydcor defenders. I will simply outline my opinion, devoid of emotion.

When looking at a company like cydcor, it is easy to focus on the MLM facade. Having been involved in a MLM before (Quixtar), I knew what I was getting into when I interviewed with the company. What struck me, however, was it's stark difference to any MLM I'd heard about. The most important difference is that no one makes any money off of their subordinates except for the managers. As a "leader" in the office, I never made a dime off of my "crew". I also never paid for anyone's training. (My manager worked out a training bonus, when the distributor was promoted to leader, he/she would get a $300 bonus ($100/day for 3 days of training). I did pay for their lunches during training, but wrote that off in taxes.) I categorized cydcor in a way I haven't yet seen on this post, as a franchise model, not an MLM. Since there has been so much mention of "serving burgers to guys in bmw's" I'll maintain the analogy.

McDonald's charges you up to a million dollars to open a franchise. Cool. As the franchise owner, you are sent to school (hamburger Univ) to learn every aspect of the business, from sweeping floors, to manning the drive thru. Cydcor is similar in that you are put through every task that you'll eventually ask your subordinates to do. except for the money up front, it's very similar.

McDonald's managers/owners are constantly interviewing, and seem to have a revolving door (likely due to the stigma attached to flipping burgers). Door-to-door has a similar stigma, thus a similar revolving door.

McDonald's owners can make a decent living from one location, granted it is a popular location, and no outside influences take affect. However, they can make far more by reinvesting their profits and opening more McDonald's franchises. The same is true for Cydcor. There is a young woman in Alexandria, VA who could make $500K a year from one location, but understands the security derived from opening multiple locations.

McDonald's owners in their first few years (as with any self-employed entreprenieur) are usually the first people to the store, and work longer hours than anyone else, often with the lowest salary (pay themselves a meager salary but collect profits in bonus form). Cydcor's field experience teaches you that mentality.

I learned two valuable things from my Cydcor experience...

1. Think like an entreprenueir. It's better to own the business, than work for the business.

2. Ask for what you want. If you're not satisfied with the hand that you're dealt, ask for a new one. You will usually get it.

At the end of the day, the rigorous schedule that Cydcor demands is similar to that of any newly formed small business. As an owner of a small business (i.e. gas station, convenience store, law firm, McDonald's, etc.), you are expected to work long hours for little pay. you are expected to pay business expenses without adequate revenues to offset them. You have little more than your own effort and your belief in your dream to keep you going. And people will think you are crazy for pursuing such a difficult path.

I'm sorry that you had such horrible experiences with Cydcor. It just goes to show you how the greedy nature of mankind can contaminate a perfectly pure system. (the system itself is pure, outwork your buddy and you'll progress faster. It's human nature that adds the drama mentioned in these posts).

Thanks for listening,

Dean,

Thank you for responding honestly and tactfully. You probably do run your office the way you claim to. So I have no problem with you. I still do have a problem with DS-Max, however. Like you said, you wouldn't want a scumbag working for you and representing multi-million dollar clients, right? Well, apparently DS-Max doesn't care. There are no checks in place to make sure an office is run honestly.

Just to give you a few examples of what I am talking about: You said that it is easy to make forty to sixty thousand a year as an owner. That sounds like an honest number to me. But my owner told me that DS-Max would be paying me an annual salary of $60,000 after making owner, and then I would be getting overrides on top of that. I was told that $150,000.00 was what I should make when I made owner in six months. Also, when I was interviewed I was told nothing about door-to-door. My owner said nothing about "direct-sales". He said that they give presentations to potential clients before quickly booting me out the door. And speaking of the hiring process, there were some shady people working in that office. My leader and other leaders told me that no person ever gets turned down, unless they had some serious problems. And that was never an issue, since most distributors never worked alone. And one final annoyance was the way my owner always played "keeping up with the joneses" with people in the office to give the illusion that he was making lots of money.

While all this crap was going on we had leaders, owners, and VP's visiting. They saw all the crap and didn't do anything.

The owner I worked for sucked. Just by judging the rebuttals on this site I know that there are plenty like him - they all respond with the exact same drivel. Some brag about having a house and their "net-worth", some attempt to insult, and mostly all express the belief that you only have two choices in life - fast food service or DS-Max.

Like I said before, Dean, I don't think you are one of those owners (you don't sound like one anyway). But don't you realize that they are out there? Don't you realize that it is them, and not us that is tarnishing your reputation and credibility by operating with immoral practices under the same umbrella company? If you operate as openly and honestly as you claim, and if owners who don't seem to care about their client's reputation really does offend you, maybe you should call your VP or Herbjoy or whoever and suggest they clean things up a bit. That would be the most effective course of action. Coming on here and casting blame on the victims, or removing yourself from responsibility only makes you, and every other DS-Max, Granton and Cydcor Company, look worse.

Good Luck and Stay Honest!

Dean,

Thank you for responding honestly and tactfully. You probably do run your office the way you claim to. So I have no problem with you. I still do have a problem with DS-Max, however. Like you said, you wouldn't want a scumbag working for you and representing multi-million dollar clients, right? Well, apparently DS-Max doesn't care. There are no checks in place to make sure an office is run honestly.

Just to give you a few examples of what I am talking about: You said that it is easy to make forty to sixty thousand a year as an owner. That sounds like an honest number to me. But my owner told me that DS-Max would be paying me an annual salary of $60,000 after making owner, and then I would be getting overrides on top of that. I was told that $150,000.00 was what I should make when I made owner in six months. Also, when I was interviewed I was told nothing about door-to-door. My owner said nothing about "direct-sales". He said that they give presentations to potential clients before quickly booting me out the door. And speaking of the hiring process, there were some shady people working in that office. My leader and other leaders told me that no person ever gets turned down, unless they had some serious problems. And that was never an issue, since most distributors never worked alone. And one final annoyance was the way my owner always played "keeping up with the joneses" with people in the office to give the illusion that he was making lots of money.

While all this crap was going on we had leaders, owners, and VP's visiting. They saw all the crap and didn't do anything.

The owner I worked for sucked. Just by judging the rebuttals on this site I know that there are plenty like him - they all respond with the exact same drivel. Some brag about having a house and their "net-worth", some attempt to insult, and mostly all express the belief that you only have two choices in life - fast food service or DS-Max.

Like I said before, Dean, I don't think you are one of those owners (you don't sound like one anyway). But don't you realize that they are out there? Don't you realize that it is them, and not us that is tarnishing your reputation and credibility by operating with immoral practices under the same umbrella company? If you operate as openly and honestly as you claim, and if owners who don't seem to care about their client's reputation really does offend you, maybe you should call your VP or Herbjoy or whoever and suggest they clean things up a bit. That would be the most effective course of action. Coming on here and casting blame on the victims, or removing yourself from responsibility only makes you, and every other DS-Max, Granton and Cydcor Company, look worse.

Good Luck and Stay Honest!

Dean,

Thank you for responding honestly and tactfully. You probably do run your office the way you claim to. So I have no problem with you. I still do have a problem with DS-Max, however. Like you said, you wouldn't want a scumbag working for you and representing multi-million dollar clients, right? Well, apparently DS-Max doesn't care. There are no checks in place to make sure an office is run honestly.

Just to give you a few examples of what I am talking about: You said that it is easy to make forty to sixty thousand a year as an owner. That sounds like an honest number to me. But my owner told me that DS-Max would be paying me an annual salary of $60,000 after making owner, and then I would be getting overrides on top of that. I was told that $150,000.00 was what I should make when I made owner in six months. Also, when I was interviewed I was told nothing about door-to-door. My owner said nothing about "direct-sales". He said that they give presentations to potential clients before quickly booting me out the door. And speaking of the hiring process, there were some shady people working in that office. My leader and other leaders told me that no person ever gets turned down, unless they had some serious problems. And that was never an issue, since most distributors never worked alone. And one final annoyance was the way my owner always played "keeping up with the joneses" with people in the office to give the illusion that he was making lots of money.

While all this crap was going on we had leaders, owners, and VP's visiting. They saw all the crap and didn't do anything.

The owner I worked for sucked. Just by judging the rebuttals on this site I know that there are plenty like him - they all respond with the exact same drivel. Some brag about having a house and their "net-worth", some attempt to insult, and mostly all express the belief that you only have two choices in life - fast food service or DS-Max.

Like I said before, Dean, I don't think you are one of those owners (you don't sound like one anyway). But don't you realize that they are out there? Don't you realize that it is them, and not us that is tarnishing your reputation and credibility by operating with immoral practices under the same umbrella company? If you operate as openly and honestly as you claim, and if owners who don't seem to care about their client's reputation really does offend you, maybe you should call your VP or Herbjoy or whoever and suggest they clean things up a bit. That would be the most effective course of action. Coming on here and casting blame on the victims, or removing yourself from responsibility only makes you, and every other DS-Max, Granton and Cydcor Company, look worse.

Good Luck and Stay Honest!

Dean,

Thank you for responding honestly and tactfully. You probably do run your office the way you claim to. So I have no problem with you. I still do have a problem with DS-Max, however. Like you said, you wouldn't want a scumbag working for you and representing multi-million dollar clients, right? Well, apparently DS-Max doesn't care. There are no checks in place to make sure an office is run honestly.

Just to give you a few examples of what I am talking about: You said that it is easy to make forty to sixty thousand a year as an owner. That sounds like an honest number to me. But my owner told me that DS-Max would be paying me an annual salary of $60,000 after making owner, and then I would be getting overrides on top of that. I was told that $150,000.00 was what I should make when I made owner in six months. Also, when I was interviewed I was told nothing about door-to-door. My owner said nothing about "direct-sales". He said that they give presentations to potential clients before quickly booting me out the door. And speaking of the hiring process, there were some shady people working in that office. My leader and other leaders told me that no person ever gets turned down, unless they had some serious problems. And that was never an issue, since most distributors never worked alone. And one final annoyance was the way my owner always played "keeping up with the joneses" with people in the office to give the illusion that he was making lots of money.

While all this crap was going on we had leaders, owners, and VP's visiting. They saw all the crap and didn't do anything.

The owner I worked for sucked. Just by judging the rebuttals on this site I know that there are plenty like him - they all respond with the exact same drivel. Some brag about having a house and their "net-worth", some attempt to insult, and mostly all express the belief that you only have two choices in life - fast food service or DS-Max.

Like I said before, Dean, I don't think you are one of those owners (you don't sound like one anyway). But don't you realize that they are out there? Don't you realize that it is them, and not us that is tarnishing your reputation and credibility by operating with immoral practices under the same umbrella company? If you operate as openly and honestly as you claim, and if owners who don't seem to care about their client's reputation really does offend you, maybe you should call your VP or Herbjoy or whoever and suggest they clean things up a bit. That would be the most effective course of action. Coming on here and casting blame on the victims, or removing yourself from responsibility only makes you, and every other DS-Max, Granton and Cydcor Company, look worse.

Good Luck and Stay Honest!

Dean, apologies for the sarcasm in the title.

The question in the title refers to the fact that most of what you say is considered and indeed, correct.

I am anti- DS MAX and anti-MLM, however, but I thought I would post to:

1/ to thank you for your comments
and
2/ to correct a point or two.

1/ It is pleasing - and pleasantly surprising I might add - to hear a DS MAX owner who responds rationally and without the usual vitriol inherent in other owners' posts.

2/ Points that I disagree with:

(So you understand where I am coming from, I advise that I was a DS MAX owner for four years, albeit I have not been involved for about six years)

I disagree with the following points:
a/ "... most managers do hire people that will be good for the client and for the office."

I am afraid when I was an owner we were taught to hire 'almost' everyone that had a pulse. (Law of averages.) It costs the same amount of money to run an office with 40 people as it does to run an office with 15 people.

So, for example, if out of these 40 people, 15 of them were good merchandisers and sold 20 pieces each (total 300) and the other 25 only sold 5 each (total 125) the office total would be 425. Why get rid of the weak 25 and cost yourself 125 sales a day? Of course, all owners would keep these people, it helps the bottom line. (Nothwithstanding the fact that the weak 25 would be lucky to pay for their lunch.)

b/ "All offices are controlled and run the same.
No, I run a very open office, my philosophy on business in general is that it is what it is. I tell ppl exactly what they will be doing, money they will be making and opportunity they will have."

Dean, I can only take your word for it that you tell people exactly what they are going to be doing, opportunity, income etc.. If you are being honest I commend you.

What I do know, however, is that in my time we did not tell people the whole truth. No owner did. We didn't straight out lie, we just used silly euphemisms and answered questions with a question. (I still remember saying in my interview to the owner that "hired" me.."So what will we actually be doing tomorrow?"
To which he replied:
"Oh, you'll be seeing the merchandising side of things tomorrow... O'kay! Great! See you tomorrow!"

Perhaps things have changed and DS MAX now instill the virtues of honesty and integrity in their owners. If that IS the case, why are there so many people still feeling cheated, mislead and victimised??

Dean, I sincerely hope you are what you say you are, and do what you say you do. I'm sure, in the long run, that you will be a success in whatever you choose to do.

PS - Thank you, thank you, thank you for being the first DS MAX owner to explain your business for what it is.

I quote you - "Not the best company or the best opportunity in the world but better than some and worse than others. Anyone can achieve success, they just have to find a place where their skills can be used."

If only other DS MAX owners had your attitude I would be able to get some work done and not HAVE to post here every second day.

Good luck,

James Gang,

Some of you have worked for offices I know, some of you havent. James I do not remember you so you must not have worked very long, but you do seem to be very informed. The negative side of alot of your rebuttals is that generally you are very selective as to which people you respond. So I doubt anyone will respond to this one.

To dispel some myths:
1. DS MAX owners do not make good money.

A. It all depends on how well you run your office, it is very easy in the first year, even with over head to make forty to sixty thousand dollars.

2. DS MAX offices hire every person that walks through the door.

A. No, most managers do hire people that will be good for the client and for the office. Think about it, would I want to consign 300 dollars worth of product, or give a multi million dollar client to a disreputable individual. Shame on a manager who does.

3. All offices are controlled and run the same.

A. No, I run a very open office, my philosophy on business in general is that it is what it is. I tell ppl exactly what they will be doing, money they will be making and opportunity they will have. Most of you will write back and say this is not true and I am one of the reputable ones. That is not true, all of you writing understand the business and how it works, someone told you, you did not just figure it out for yourself.

This business is just like many and any other. It has its risks and its rewards. If I am a person who might be a good management canidate anywhere, I probably will do good here, I if I am not a good management canidate I will either learn or not be a manager anywhere. If I am good with people and sales, it can easily be applied here or in any sales environment. If not, then I will probably not be in sales anywhere. If you do work for a Ds max affiliate and dont like it quit. If you do like it, make it to management or achieve a stronger resume or a better character. Whatever you want.
As far as this being a cult. That is a very insane notion to me. The cheers that some offices do, the manner in which some of you have been treated by managers and leaders. Some of your complaints are valid if they do occur in offices to this extreme. Some of them occur in lots of business, from sports teams(the pressure to perform is high whether high paid or playing for free), to corporate giants like SAMS club and Walmart, they do cheers every morning, and if confronted by and employee with a bad attitude will repremand them and not stand for it. As for recruiting practices, look at just about any insurance company, financial investement company or real estate company. All are flooded with reps that are not very reputable, only pan out for two weeks to six months and work just as much but make far less than ds max distributers. Many of these companies hire everyone, and weed out people because they are not good in sales and cant make a living. Or get couple of sales and make them some money than Quit. (Many People In my office have worked for these companies and have quit). Almost any company in Monster.com or in the classifieds section of the newspaper operates in a similiar manner.

DS Max affiliates are not the exception, but more the norm. Not the best company or the best opportunity in the world but better than some and worse than others. Anyone can achieve success, they just have to find a place where their skills can be used. We just have an avenue, like many other companies in the sales, marketing field where a person with a good attitude, outgoing personality, and competitive streek can strive.

Now I suspect one if not all of you will harp on a minute point of my report/argument misconstrew a point I did not really mean to make in order to make me sound unjust. Or you will not respond at all, because you realize much of what I have written is true and you need not respond. Please open your eyes take a step back and realize what this industry is, mainstream, many people do commission sales or work in environments similiar to DS MAX, some of you might even own stock in these companies. I am sure some of your parents, best friends and relatives work for insurance comanies to walmart that all share many trates with DS MAX. If you want to criticize what we do here you might be dragged into a crusade with many companies and people you didn't intend. Please, if your happy in your life keep it up, if not dont try to tell me mine is worthless. I am deffinatly not the only person you are talking to.

#1. I do not work for DS-Max and neither am I supplied by them. I work for TNI, a competitor to DS-Max.

#2. I see this no different than paying royalties for a franchise. My parents and Jason's parent's have also owned a franchise.

Both franchises were A Buck or Two and Pizza Pizza.

They both make you follow strict guidelines as to what product you can sell/how you can make it, so as to not give themselves a bad name. With the brand name recognition however, there is always a price, which is anywhere from 5-20 % royalties.

And why would I have to pay interest? Do we really need more than $20,000?

Rent's only $1000/mo. If all products are consigned, then there's no need to have that much cash on hand, but we both have plenty.

Jason was smart enough to tell me to start saving money, and stop spending it, so we've accumulated some money over the past few months.

Bailey, you said:

"When we open up our office, all we want is to start off with a few clients, do the normal 12 to 8, 1 to 9 shifts in the field and as we expand become a full-fledged advertising companies. Acquiring companies via market research,(telemarketing) qualified leads, and sales to the corporate world."

This is the problem. Direct sales is fine for the individual. Most products are sold at a price that is prorated by volume. All you need is enough start-up capital to be able to purchase enough products at a profitable price. Then you sell them however you want i.e. door to door. Anybody can do this, the latest and most popular outlet is EBAY.

DS-Max basically teaches others how to do this, while taking a sizeable chunk off the top. Again, this is something anybody can do independantly. But DS-Max pretty much offers the products, without your investment, for you to sell. In theory, it sounds good. But the thing to remember is that DS-Max controls your slice of the pie. Not to mention the fact that they don't have to do any work. (I'm not gonna go into discussing the sick practices that are used to keep people "in line"). DS-Max is alot like a loanshark; you don't pay much up-front, but the interest will drag you under.

So, basically, to address Bailey:
Direct sales doesn't need "ad agencies" or anything else. There should never be a "middle man" of any sort. Why would you pay someone to give you an opportunity that you could so easily obtain yourself?

Anybody can make money in direct sales if they want to. DS-Max is a system that is set up to pay people for doing basically nothing more than finding others to sell s**t that profits those at the top. Its complete bullshit.

Bailley, if you want to do direct sales, that is fine. Just don't pretend that it is something that you can honestly hire people to do for you. Why wouldn't they just do it for themselves?

Bailey, you said:

"When we open up our office, all we want is to start off with a few clients, do the normal 12 to 8, 1 to 9 shifts in the field and as we expand become a full-fledged advertising companies. Acquiring companies via market research,(telemarketing) qualified leads, and sales to the corporate world."

This is the problem. Direct sales is fine for the individual. Most products are sold at a price that is prorated by volume. All you need is enough start-up capital to be able to purchase enough products at a profitable price. Then you sell them however you want i.e. door to door. Anybody can do this, the latest and most popular outlet is EBAY.

DS-Max basically teaches others how to do this, while taking a sizeable chunk off the top. Again, this is something anybody can do independantly. But DS-Max pretty much offers the products, without your investment, for you to sell. In theory, it sounds good. But the thing to remember is that DS-Max controls your slice of the pie. Not to mention the fact that they don't have to do any work. (I'm not gonna go into discussing the sick practices that are used to keep people "in line"). DS-Max is alot like a loanshark; you don't pay much up-front, but the interest will drag you under.

So, basically, to address Bailey:
Direct sales doesn't need "ad agencies" or anything else. There should never be a "middle man" of any sort. Why would you pay someone to give you an opportunity that you could so easily obtain yourself?

Anybody can make money in direct sales if they want to. DS-Max is a system that is set up to pay people for doing basically nothing more than finding others to sell s**t that profits those at the top. Its complete bullshit.

Bailley, if you want to do direct sales, that is fine. Just don't pretend that it is something that you can honestly hire people to do for you. Why wouldn't they just do it for themselves?

Bailey, you said:

"When we open up our office, all we want is to start off with a few clients, do the normal 12 to 8, 1 to 9 shifts in the field and as we expand become a full-fledged advertising companies. Acquiring companies via market research,(telemarketing) qualified leads, and sales to the corporate world."

This is the problem. Direct sales is fine for the individual. Most products are sold at a price that is prorated by volume. All you need is enough start-up capital to be able to purchase enough products at a profitable price. Then you sell them however you want i.e. door to door. Anybody can do this, the latest and most popular outlet is EBAY.

DS-Max basically teaches others how to do this, while taking a sizeable chunk off the top. Again, this is something anybody can do independantly. But DS-Max pretty much offers the products, without your investment, for you to sell. In theory, it sounds good. But the thing to remember is that DS-Max controls your slice of the pie. Not to mention the fact that they don't have to do any work. (I'm not gonna go into discussing the sick practices that are used to keep people "in line"). DS-Max is alot like a loanshark; you don't pay much up-front, but the interest will drag you under.

So, basically, to address Bailey:
Direct sales doesn't need "ad agencies" or anything else. There should never be a "middle man" of any sort. Why would you pay someone to give you an opportunity that you could so easily obtain yourself?

Anybody can make money in direct sales if they want to. DS-Max is a system that is set up to pay people for doing basically nothing more than finding others to sell s**t that profits those at the top. Its complete bullshit.

Bailley, if you want to do direct sales, that is fine. Just don't pretend that it is something that you can honestly hire people to do for you. Why wouldn't they just do it for themselves?

Bailey, you said:

"When we open up our office, all we want is to start off with a few clients, do the normal 12 to 8, 1 to 9 shifts in the field and as we expand become a full-fledged advertising companies. Acquiring companies via market research,(telemarketing) qualified leads, and sales to the corporate world."

This is the problem. Direct sales is fine for the individual. Most products are sold at a price that is prorated by volume. All you need is enough start-up capital to be able to purchase enough products at a profitable price. Then you sell them however you want i.e. door to door. Anybody can do this, the latest and most popular outlet is EBAY.

DS-Max basically teaches others how to do this, while taking a sizeable chunk off the top. Again, this is something anybody can do independantly. But DS-Max pretty much offers the products, without your investment, for you to sell. In theory, it sounds good. But the thing to remember is that DS-Max controls your slice of the pie. Not to mention the fact that they don't have to do any work. (I'm not gonna go into discussing the sick practices that are used to keep people "in line"). DS-Max is alot like a loanshark; you don't pay much up-front, but the interest will drag you under.

So, basically, to address Bailey:
Direct sales doesn't need "ad agencies" or anything else. There should never be a "middle man" of any sort. Why would you pay someone to give you an opportunity that you could so easily obtain yourself?

Anybody can make money in direct sales if they want to. DS-Max is a system that is set up to pay people for doing basically nothing more than finding others to sell s**t that profits those at the top. Its complete bullshit.

Bailley, if you want to do direct sales, that is fine. Just don't pretend that it is something that you can honestly hire people to do for you. Why wouldn't they just do it for themselves?

Baily,

I rarely have the time anymore to keep up with everything. I am one of the managers of DS/Max The Aftermath (both on MSN and forming it's own website).

Experience what you need to experience. Continue to "self-improve" in any way you can. Take care of yourself with eyes wide open... and we'll be here for you when you need us.

Like some people have mentioned direct sales is a giant industry and some companies will have to be run similar to the cult-like ways of DS-Max, while some can be run in the 9 to 5 manner.

Both can be very successful or both methods can be very unsuccessful.

When we open up our office, all we want is to start off with a few clients, do the normal 12 to 8, 1 to 9 shifts in the field and as we expand become a full-fledged advertising companies. Acquiring companies via market research,(telemarketing) qualified leads, and sales to the corporate world.

I think your position is blinding you to the crux of our arguments, which is really frustrating because you fail to address any of the points i set forward in my previous post.

However, because I am a fair man, I will address yours, in hope of seeing some reciprocation.

Let me begin my saying I really don't give a rat's a*s what your BM/Owner/Grand High Poobah make in a year. It is inconsequential to my existence, and doesn't affect me in the least. If I were you, I would stop flaunting it. However, now that we know that your head cheiftain makes a mil+ a year, and your BM makes 6 figures, how about all the little indians? I'm curious to know what you are paying all the little people that put all that money in the coffers of your managers. Obviously, you have no qualms about publishing the incomes of your company heads, I don't expect this to be too much trouble.

Do this, and I'm sure (if it's a fair amount), you will dissuage a few of the anti-Cydcoresque company haters like myself, at least for hating your company.

"That JJ guy said it all when he announced that he was a drug addict!!! No more talking to him!!!!"

What? huh? Did you EVEN READ anything I wrote?

Bailey is the ex-drug addict and TNI employee.

You really demolish your credibility when you close you post with something that blatantly shows you did not read the responses. Unless your reading comprehension is really that poor...

Either way, you just made yourself seem pretty dumb right there.

Mark, good to hear from you again! Now there is so much more to learn about this industry. DSMAX really tries to keep you guys sheltered from other companies and how it all works. Owners from DSMAX really dont make that much money. Even with low overhead and a high sell they have to produce extremely high volume because of their royalty they owe. Take your execucards for example; you sell them at $25 on average. You pay granton $4 for them, you pay a rep $10. You dont have enough money left to even pay an override to the trainer. 50 sales a day would be $500 net. Thats $8000 a month. You pay overhead at least at 5 to 6k a month. Your making a whopping 2k per month! That is doing 50 sales a day!!! If you do more you could make more of course. But you would need a lot of people always doing high volume. So many owners from DSMAX eventually fail. And when they do fail. They carry all of the liability. Not DSMAX. Or what about Wholesale? $5 items. You pay a rep $1 a sale. Buy the product at $1 to $2. You are left with $2 to $3. You have to maintain at least 150 to 200 sales a day to just make your office overhead of 6k. What about you making any money? What about your personal bills? Ya, but you are in business for yourself!!!!!

Im sure you already know this Mark. What Im saying is that there are more concepts out there that work out better for owners and Branch Managers.

For example we sell certificates that are much like execucards. Only they are our own accounts. Scot closes the deals himself and produces the card. Our cards sell at $60. Like our 24 hour fitness membership. 3 months free to any local gym with lots of additional free stuff, like supplements, a towel, and an introduction to fitness class. A membership normally cost $800 a year with a contract, or $65 a month with out. Our cards are$60 for three months, a great deal for the customer. Plus we pay our reps $20 a sale plus production bonuses and contest paid weekly. We also give the trainer $2 for every sale conducted on their team. Conner and I are the Assistant branch managers for our offices. We make a $3 overide on the entire office. As a Branch Manager I will receive $10 on every sale conducted in the office. Only I do not pay the overhead, Scot does. Last week we closed the week at 303 sales. John our BM here in Laguna made $3030.00. He does not pay overhead, he keeps all that money. Plus he makes profit sharing.
Now Scot comes out of each sale with about $25 after paying the reps and the BM. So he pulled in about 7 K last week on just this Branch in Laguna. He runs the LA location also. So he makes BM and Owner pay there, on top of this Branch. They did 480 last week. So we estimate here that Scot made $16800.00 out of his own Branch and $7575.00 out of this Branch last week alone. $24375.00 in a week. The guy pulls in nearly 100K a month as the owner.
John pulls in about 230k a year as a BM. But we only have to do 50 to 60 #s a day to make that money.

DSMAX owners must maintain at least 100 to 200 a day to make still less then that. Thats why so many DSMAX owners fail.

Everyone in our company knows how much Scot makes. Per Branch he makes 5 times more than a BM. To me that is fair. He built and run s the entire company. He pays the overhead. And if something were to happen, he would be liable.
So why would anyone make DSMAX owner pay and carry all of the liability plus overhead. When you could make more money as a Branch Manager, have no liability, and pay no overhead.
Well Mark, that is our concept that we are brain washed on!!!!! And sorry I didnt read your first comments in April about how far you had gone in that company. But some of the people on this site are legitimate, while others dont know enough about the business to even hold a good quality debate!!!! Tell me more about what you sold. And how your guys compensation was structured down under!!!!

PS. That JJ guy said it all when he announced that he was a drug addict!!! No more talking to him!!!!

I was told by a friend about cydcor, so I decided it would be fun to try a position there myself.

Here's what happened.

I made it to the third interview, I got the position with one of the assitant managers.

When I was walking out of the office, I gave the assistant manager a really limp handshake, and he just looked at me.

The next day he just looked at me funny the whole entire day. He treated me like I was a worthless idiot.

So during my second full day I went into breakfast and called some of the other employees the wrong name. The manager got mad at me, and then she was ready to get rid of me.

The third day, I interrupted a leadership meeting. The manager looked at me and grinned.

The managers were pissed at me by this point.

And they still kept me, because my leader/assistant manager thought I was doing a good job.

So after the managers found out that I got kept, they were pissed, and they wouldn't give me high fives at the end of the day.

The next day I left, and my leader called me, and got all mad because I didn't show up.

JUICE :)

First you enter the discussion like this:
"I just can't believe my boyfriend on his day off came accross this unbareable sight and saw all you bitches and jackasses complaining. You guys really are cows."

Look at all the name calling you use towards us. You blatantly throw out any chance of an intelligent discussion. I made a response several days ago but it was not posted for some reason. Now you start again, by calling me a "loser".

You straight out admit you would be on the street BEGGING for money! Basically, what is the difference between that and your job now? (okay, that was a cheap shot)

but please, your office boy toy called me childish, yet you entered the discussion by calling us all bitches and cows... ahem, who is childish?

I honestly don't think it is good corporate practice to have former drug addicts who are accustomed to begging on the streets in sales.

I know you are proud of being "cleaned up", but don't give TNI the credit for that.

And also, about opening an office while in a relationship... Don't you think that your relations with your co-manager will blur the lines of management decisions? In fact, it is for this reason that office relationships are taboo, and not to mention the harrassment liability. Relationships may seem perfect at first, but after 3 years you will see that it takes some sacrifice and work to keep you and your partner happy. There really is no way I can see a sucessful office being run by people who are "in love."

I am surprised that your response to me got posted, while my reply earlier was not. I hope ripoffreports.com posts this.

The problem with these companies is the lack of values in the people that represent them. I have a street begger calling me a loser, now that's funny.

You're such a loser! Is that all you can think of? I used to be a drug addict, but I'll only the occasional pot now and then. You can't tell me you don't have one single friend that hasn't done pot?

If it weren't for this business, I would still be a drug addict and would be out on the streets begging for money. I am so glad that I found this opportunity and if it weren't for TNI, I have a feeling I wouldn't be feeling as good as I am now. Besides, I'd rather be doing this and getting an office open than working for a loser who has to take orders.

This company has changed my life and for the better. Also I am so glad that I have met Jason, he is trying to help me out by sorting out this mini-addiction I have to pot. I think if DS-Max were run properly, it could be a lot better and not have as many complaints.

Preface: I was employed by a Cydcor affiliate in Cleveland, Ohio for more than a month. In that time, I broke the office record for highest dollar amount on a single Quill ticket, and was DETERMINED to succeed despite watching others around me curiously stop showing up. So, as you can see, I'm not one of those guys who came in, sucked from the start, and moped around later because he wasn't successful.

Now, for the "rant." I really didn't read the later posts, I knew that it would be more of the same company line I was fed when I was questioning my leader why I wasn't getting paid (promised pay in 2 weeks, got pay in 4), why my pay was so low, and when this 30K a year to start came into play. I'm really not sure how your affiliate office operates, and quite honestly, I really don't care. What I do know, however, is half-truths, deception, and lingustic inventiveness to conceal, or at least partially conceal to the prospect the vastness of work he/she is getting themselves into. I have no problem working 50-60 hour weeks. What I do, however, have a problem with, is in the event that I don't have the best of days, my efforts, my WORK in doing said efforts, and the framework that I toiled that day to create will go completely unconpensated. Not so much as a couple of dollars for gas and food. There are MANY days that I had to budget for 10-15 dollars a day, and most of that was refilling my gas tank (Honda Civic, burned through a tank A DAY), eating all but the cheapest of meals, and trying to maintain a positive attitude through all of it. Then, after I landed the big ticket, to hear that they are docking 50 dollars of it because my trainer never told me that orders ofer US$1000 have to have a credit check. Not to even mention the verbal beratement I was handed when I told one of the newly hired recruits the ACTUAL, UNCENSORED TRUTH. I believe, as his coworker, I owed him that much, I knew the "leaders" were not going to offer him that courtesy.

So you see, my dear, I'm really not bitter at your office, I'm bitter at the system as a whole, and how the main cog in that system relies SOLELY on the exploitation of the people coming in and out of that office. I just wish to correct one little thing before I end.

Quoth Alisa: "MULTI LEVEL MARKETING IS A RECRUTING/SALES STRUCTURE BASED ON INVESTMENTS AND MEMBERSHIPS. ALTHOUGH MONEY CAN BE MADE THROUGH A SALE RECRUITING IS THE PRIMARY GOAL."

Someone's thinking from the company line. Let me explain.

MLM is, in fact, a recruiting sales structure. This is necessary to ensure the MLM's internal levels, and ergo, it's very survival. However, I do believe it's a violation of the Straw Man logical fallacy to merely say that all MLM's offer are investments and memberships. How is Amway/Quixtar (the gold standard of MLM) an investment, or a membership? Also, it is not the standard practice of Amway/Quixtar to sell product through third party companies? How is this dissimilar from your revenue stream?

As far as the recruiting goes, let me ask you this. Assuming industry standard attrition rates (which, as we all know, in this industry is a pipe dream), you have let's say 90% of the members of your office attain the level of "office manager", and they go and open up their own offices. Do you see the personnel vacuum yet? Let me try it with more realistic circumstances. Office manager needs 5(hypothetical) subordinate offices to rise in rank to Regional Whatever. He/She, in an effort to get to said plane of existence, is forced to staff (synonym for RECRUIT) higher in his subordinate offices or promote someone already in place. Kicker here is, according to Cydcor doctrine, a leader needs N teams under him to go to ASM, an ASM needs P teams under her to go to Office manager, and so on and so forth. So, the same end is reached, more RECRUITING must be done to elevate said people, even more recruiting than is necesary to replace the battalions of disenfranchised employees who are seeing the proverbial light.

I understand fully that you are not affiliated with Cydcor, I understand you aren't affiliated with DS-Max, but if you are going to base your business so closely on their practices, you incur the same inherent problems as they do.

Don't hate me cause I'm beautiful, hate me cause I'm right.

After reading through this discussion I'm noticing a trend. Myself, Jj, Todd et. al. have made great attempts at avoiding condescension and ridicule. In return for our attempts at civilized discussion we are labelled ignorant, idiots, losers, etc.

Moreover, in the process of spouting typical MLM drivel about how we'll be serving you burgers in your BMW, you seem to have avoided refuting any of the valid arguments posed to you. If you really want to effectively defend your company, name calling and stereotyping will get you nowhere.

And you say the people who leave your company have bad attitudes? All you have displayed is an extremely crass sense of materialism, an inability to conduct yourselves in a professional manner while you are representing your company, and an inability to conduct a reasoned discussion that is based on facts and research without resorting to childish name calling. You've all done a great job of reafirming our stereotypes about MLM shills.

If you can come up with any sort of reasoned responses for my concerns I would welcome the opportunity to engage in an intelligent conversation, otherwise I'm throwing in the towel on this one. I visit this site for reasoned discussion and, fortunately, I can recognize when I'm wasting my time on a fruitless venture. So continue to sling mud, attack characters, and avoid the real issues. I can take the criticism; my self esteem is sky high and I know that what I'm doing is of value, regardless of the outcome.

After reading through this discussion I'm noticing a trend. Myself, Jj, Todd et. al. have made great attempts at avoiding condescension and ridicule. In return for our attempts at civilized discussion we are labelled ignorant, idiots, losers, etc.

Moreover, in the process of spouting typical MLM drivel about how we'll be serving you burgers in your BMW, you seem to have avoided refuting any of the valid arguments posed to you. If you really want to effectively defend your company, name calling and stereotyping will get you nowhere.

And you say the people who leave your company have bad attitudes? All you have displayed is an extremely crass sense of materialism, an inability to conduct yourselves in a professional manner while you are representing your company, and an inability to conduct a reasoned discussion that is based on facts and research without resorting to childish name calling. You've all done a great job of reafirming our stereotypes about MLM shills.

If you can come up with any sort of reasoned responses for my concerns I would welcome the opportunity to engage in an intelligent conversation, otherwise I'm throwing in the towel on this one. I visit this site for reasoned discussion and, fortunately, I can recognize when I'm wasting my time on a fruitless venture. So continue to sling mud, attack characters, and avoid the real issues. I can take the criticism; my self esteem is sky high and I know that what I'm doing is of value, regardless of the outcome.

After reading through this discussion I'm noticing a trend. Myself, Jj, Todd et. al. have made great attempts at avoiding condescension and ridicule. In return for our attempts at civilized discussion we are labelled ignorant, idiots, losers, etc.

Moreover, in the process of spouting typical MLM drivel about how we'll be serving you burgers in your BMW, you seem to have avoided refuting any of the valid arguments posed to you. If you really want to effectively defend your company, name calling and stereotyping will get you nowhere.

And you say the people who leave your company have bad attitudes? All you have displayed is an extremely crass sense of materialism, an inability to conduct yourselves in a professional manner while you are representing your company, and an inability to conduct a reasoned discussion that is based on facts and research without resorting to childish name calling. You've all done a great job of reafirming our stereotypes about MLM shills.

If you can come up with any sort of reasoned responses for my concerns I would welcome the opportunity to engage in an intelligent conversation, otherwise I'm throwing in the towel on this one. I visit this site for reasoned discussion and, fortunately, I can recognize when I'm wasting my time on a fruitless venture. So continue to sling mud, attack characters, and avoid the real issues. I can take the criticism; my self esteem is sky high and I know that what I'm doing is of value, regardless of the outcome.

After reading through this discussion I'm noticing a trend. Myself, Jj, Todd et. al. have made great attempts at avoiding condescension and ridicule. In return for our attempts at civilized discussion we are labelled ignorant, idiots, losers, etc.

Moreover, in the process of spouting typical MLM drivel about how we'll be serving you burgers in your BMW, you seem to have avoided refuting any of the valid arguments posed to you. If you really want to effectively defend your company, name calling and stereotyping will get you nowhere.

And you say the people who leave your company have bad attitudes? All you have displayed is an extremely crass sense of materialism, an inability to conduct yourselves in a professional manner while you are representing your company, and an inability to conduct a reasoned discussion that is based on facts and research without resorting to childish name calling. You've all done a great job of reafirming our stereotypes about MLM shills.

If you can come up with any sort of reasoned responses for my concerns I would welcome the opportunity to engage in an intelligent conversation, otherwise I'm throwing in the towel on this one. I visit this site for reasoned discussion and, fortunately, I can recognize when I'm wasting my time on a fruitless venture. So continue to sling mud, attack characters, and avoid the real issues. I can take the criticism; my self esteem is sky high and I know that what I'm doing is of value, regardless of the outcome.

Thank you for your response Mark. I grabbed my hat and coat, and am on my way out! haha! This is insane. I had been with the company for over a month and only received one paycheck. They were late with my paychecks, and just very inconsistent and unreliable. My bills were late, and many other things b/c of our hub accountant who was the biggest witch on the face of the planet. Anyway, I'm so happy to be through, and i finally don't feel like I'm deceiving people anymore. Once again thanks for the support!

Roxy,

You should be commended for your honesty and sincerity. My advice to you is to get your hat and coat and get out of there.

Good Luck with everything you do.

Cheers

Some one named Mark made quite a response to an administrator in the the "streamline marketing Mi associates" series if you look under "ds max" with the search engine on this sight. Be sure and include the space.

Good luck getting out. Familiarize your self with many of these reports and the dsmaxthe aftermath group. At least you did not wind up in the field.

My girlfriend won't bother responding to your childish remarks, she's above that but I feel that I have to defend her and our company practices. The company does have screening practices, we do not take anyone on who has broken the law within the past year. All that is required is that you are 18+ and must not have any record of sexual harrassment or theft or fraud.

TNI is a competitor to DS-Max and we believe our company will do much better because of our screening process. And at least Bailey is willing to be open about everything, which goes to show you that we don't "close our back doors" as some of you say.

Also, Bailey and I are in love, so please don't question it.

"I only have a high school degree and was a complete drug addict before I went into TNI and now I'm basically all cleaned up. I only do the occassiaonal pot here and there, but who doesn't? "

Exactly my point you idiot! Even if you do drugs or anything, which I will not hold against you... but give me a ****ing break! you are REPRESENTING A COMPANY! Most of these bottomfeeders like you are complete drug addicts. I have my skelitons in the closet but I keep them in the closet. This is a prime example of the type of trash this industry is built off of. Not to sound like a bad person, but you really set your-self up. A PRIME EXAMPLE OF THE LACK OF SCREENING. JUST ANOTHER JUNKIE BOTTOMFEEDER DOOR TO DOOR SALESMAN.

Have fun!

I have now been with a local "promotional/advertising" company directly under Cydcor for almost a month. However I have the title of the "Administrator" I have never been out in the field, or had to sell anything.

However, I am the one responsible for ad's. Getting the people in for their interview's, scheduling day of o's, etc. Never until this moment have I felt so disgusting. I don't really know what to think. I am the person who sees all these people leave, not call back, but I didnt know why. The cult similiarities are mind boggling, however the opportunities seem to be the same. I have never sat in on an interview, and do not know what is said. It seems like everything is kept so "secretive" from me. The questions I ask when trying to inquire about an employee that is no longer there, is always accused of being "NEGATIVE". I just want to know if any other admin. have had these questions, and want some suggestions, comments. I do have a college degree, and right now I am making a good amount of money. I get paid hourly though. I do have inside information, and there are things I still do not understand.

I just know that I do not want to put my heart and hard work into a company that seems to have hurt and misled so many people. I just feel very disheartened after reading all the disappointed things. YUCK!?! I hope all of these things arent true. Well, actually it's too late for that bc i know they are. I've seen them all for myself. My eyes are just opened now.

I guess you don't know how to interpret things very well. By no means am I defending DS-Max, but I just want to defend some other innocent independant direct marketing companies who are now falling under the umbrella(so to speak) of DS-Max.

Did you ever go camping? Or get lost? Well, you love the experience, but its a place you would never go again. Or in college, when you live in residence, you love the experience and helped you learn a lot and you don't regret it, but its something you would never do again?

Well DS-Max taught me people skills, how to train people, manage money and conduct interviews. What I didn't like was the outright lying to potential new distributors and that's why I would never go there again. I'm not adverse to doing direct sales for another company as long as they have higher ethical standards than DS-Max.

but you are mostly wrong. I have heard some stuff about DS-Max from my manager about how bad they treat you. I just can't believe my boyfriend on his day off came accross this unbareable sight and saw all you bitches and jackasses complaining. You guys really are cows.

You shouldn't judge an entire industry by one company, that's just prejudise. My best friend told me about the company and I actually surpassed her but when Jason and I get our own office open, we'll take her with us. I only have a high school degree and was a complete drug addict before I went into TNI and now I'm basically all cleaned up. I only do the occassiaonal pot here and there, but who doesn't?

I'll admit not everyone is right for the business, some are weak, some are arrogant, but its those people who now the fine line that will make it. But brainwashed? Come on. Give me a freakin break. If you think you were brainwashed, then that just proves you are weak because you are suceptible to anything.

I'll see all you arrogant/weak minded cows working for Mcdonalds or in a crappy warehouse job making $20,000/yr while my boyfriend and I are going to be making close to $100,000 each in a few years. Oh yeah, did I mention the office pays for our room too? I LOVE TNI!!!

"I think all you guys are weak minded individuals who couldn't handle a few no's and don't know how to manage your own money."

First of all, why do you people assume everyone who is against DSmax is broke? I have no hard feelings toward DSmax or anything, I have plently of money, I mainly come here because I find the discussion intriguing...

Anyways, you refer to other people as being "weak minded" yet you could not keep your paws off a collegue in the office... Seriously, dating in the office is extremely unprofessional and it is highly discouraged. I could see if you got your girlferiend a job and were dating beforehand, maybe in a different department for the same company, but to come to a job and just start dating a co-worker is often times the seed that plants a sexual harrassment case. I am surprised that you think it is a good thing to be 21 and dating a co-worker and considering to open an office together. That sounds like the worste idea in the world.

Maybe it is true love but I do not think you should be calling people "weak minded."

And Alisa, I honestly did not gain any new knowledge from YOUR ALL CAPS POST TO ME. YELLING ON THE BOARD MAKES YOU SEEM CHILDISH. I CAN READ JUST FINE if you type in lower case text. Again, I can tell you are irritated by my comments and you feel it is necassary to defend your job. I am sure glad I do not need to defend my job or the credibility of what I do.

I really have nothing left to say except that I am truly amazed at the way some people think here.

I just started working with a company called TNI 2 months ago and I really enjoy it. I have good hours, 1 to 9, Monday to Fri and 10-6 on Saturday. That's only 48 hours of work. I have been recently promoted to a trainer and I'm making more money than I ever have.

I'm making close to a $170/avg per day and its fun. I get to meet nice people in the field and there are great people in my office.

What's even better is that I met my current girlfriend there and she's the sweetest person in the world. Were both trainers and we both make good money. Oh yeah, did I mention were both only 21? We are hoping to open an office soon together and it's totally up to us where we want to open our office.

I think all you guys are weak minded individuals who couldn't handle a few no's and don't know how to manage your own money. You keep on complaining about how you lost money, well it's your choice if you want to stay or not. No one's making you stay. If you people just gave it some more time, and tried to learn the system better and learn how to run a d**n office, then maybe you could have been successful.

Oh, I'm not sure who said this, but whoever said "If I get a law degree and become a taxi driver, I consider it an accomplishment." like get real buddy. You're going to law school for a reason, to make money. Trust me, when you're out of law school and become a cab driver, you'll be complaining all day long. An accomplishment is only as good as where it takes you.

So even though DS-Max is our competition, their company is still better than all you losers(excluding Alissa, Scot and Conner and anyone else not complaining) who think that a degree is all you need in life.

Oh no, a company made me set goals...what do I do? Set them and aim for them.

TNI rules!

Well, I've been reading this site for a few days now because I have a few days off and what i've realized is that this site is full of sore losers. Well most of you are okay actually, it's just Todd who puts a bad name out for everyone. He constantly complains and he should get over his ds-max experience and move on.

Like this site is just as bad as some of you purport ds-max to be a brainwashing company. If you want everyone to believe in your comments and you over-react to anyone pro direct marketing, then you are just as bad.

Todd,

DSMAX is not a competitor of our company. I said Granton is. Yes Granton is tied to DSMAX. But we sell certificates to other companies like DSMAX and independent different companies. We also have our own direct sales teams. My talking about my company is not to try and injure it. It is to let some of you know that read this site. That not all promotional Marketing companies are affiliates with DSMAX. Nor are they all structured or ran like them. And especially to let you know that promotional marketing and direct sales is very different then multi level marketing. There are people out there like JJ that believes direct sales is an illegitimate business and group it with MLMs.

Now JJ, you think its funny how I can judge your success from reading your thoughts. Yet you judge direct sales, direct marketing, and MLMs through your experience with a few companies!!! Read carefully kid O.

DIRECT SALES IS A METHOD OF SALES. IT IS NOT A STRUCTURE. NOR IS IT THE BUSINESS. THE BUSINESS WOULD BE OF THAT PRODUCT OR SERVICE. . DIRECT IS JUST BRINGING THE PRODUCT TO THE CONSUMER.
THE GOAL IS TO SELL THAT PRODUCT OR SERVICE

DIRECT MARKETING IS THE METHOD FOR MARKETING A PRODUCT OR A SERVICE TO A TARGET MARKET THROUGH MAILERS, PROMOTIONAL PENS, E-MAILS, WORD OF MOUTH ADVERTISING, EX. EACH ARE METHODS. IT IS NOT A SALES OR RECRUITEMENT STRUCTURE. THE GOAL IS TO ADVERTISE.

MULTI LEVEL MARKETING IS A RECRUTING/SALES STRUCTURE BASED ON INVESTMENTS AND MEMBERSHIPSALTHOUGH MONEY CAN BE MADE THROUGH A SALE RECRUITING IS THE PRIMARY GOAL.

Tim,
]
I am not attacking you. Im letting you know that you are attacking more than just DSMX with your comments. Youre attacking the way at which many companies in many different industries sell or market their product.

Tim I didnt say you were ignorant to my company. I said to our industry. Because you associate us as an MLM. Good luck to you on your journey to expose MLMs.. Youre an idiot

Where to start?
I won't reply to everything that has been said since my last post - but...

Let me start with you Bernie.

You said: "... so basically what I want to say is not all direct marketing companies are the same and stop judging a book by its cover."

I do not presume to judge anything or anybody by anything other than the facts which are presented to me. I know NOTHING about the business Scot, Conner & Alisa are involved in. I did, however, make comments about THEM because of their comments on this website. (eg People that leave DS MAX do so because they are losers.)

Which brings me to my next point - YOU left DS MAX, and you defend the same people that would categorise you as a loser. Maybe you are confused?

You also say "I personally loved my experience at DS-Max and learned quite a lot from it, but I would never work for them. However I am not averse to working for another direct marketing company as I see potential."
I have tried to understand this comment but I have failed - I must be a loser! You LOVED your experience, but would never work there. Why?

Finally Bern, another of your comment suggests naivete`of the highest order. You say: "If you work hard at any job, you'll get promoted once there's an opening."

I am afraid I have to disagree. Hard work will get you only so far, in any business. DS MAX, direct sales, sports, business, anything. You need skills to get to the top, and these kills are as many and varied as there are professions. Hard Work may get you promoted if you are a ditch digger, but the promotion will be only to that of Senior Ditch Digger. (I hope I am not offending any ditch diggers out there.)

Write back when you can contruct a better argument.


Alisa, nice to talk to you again. Sorry I missed a day.

1. You ask about my current situation. I will not bore everyone here with my details again. If you are truly interested - and not just on a fishing expedition! - you can learn all about me from a post I wrote on this thread back in April.

2. You say that I cannot give any 'advise'(sic) [sorry] and that I "dont have enough experience in this industry to outline it." If you are talking about DS MAX/Direct Sales I think you are wrong. I was in DS MAX for four years, more than three of those as an owner. (See previous post.) If you are talking about your own industry, perhaps you are right... I don't know what it is that you do, and as such I have not passed comment on it. I comment only on what you, Scot & Conner say in your posts.

3. As far as what I think of the other people posting on this website; some viewpoints I agree with, others I don't. You single out Todd for some rough treatment and I think that is unfair. Most of his arguments seem quite intelligently presented. I also have alot of respect for someone who has committed himself to study and family in the manner he has. Provided it is true of course - and as I have said previously, I can only take each person on their honour in their presentation of facts about themselves.

Finally, I think there will never be a time when each side of this argument will agree. If you are
happy in your business and run it ethically and with responsibility and integrity, there is nothing for you to fear from these posts.

I will, however, continue to attack those that defend DS MAX when it is clear that many, many people (including myself) have been not only mislead and deceived, but, to their detriment, have had their whole persona changed.

PS All the cracks about Australians.

I always thought it was you guys who had an accent. I thought we all talked normally!!!

Cheers,

Ok I am an ex-employee of a cydcor branch and I have no regrets. I came upon this web site and now I am addicted to reading the postings back and forth. The reason for this is that I was brainwashed like Alisa. Nobody could tell me that what I was doing sucked. One day I woke up and realized that if I know so much about sales and marketing why am I going door to door. Now Aliza will soon discover that even though she has learned "everything" there is to learn about the business world in 4 months, there are a few things she missed. One of my good friends is a Marketing Director for a fortune 500 company. He makes about 250,000 dollars a year and doesnt even have to brag about it or write to a website. He doesnt have to insult anyone, defend the credibility of his job (Alisa), or manipulate the people who work for him...(Scot). Now I said before, I have no regrets about the business. I made a lot of money and learned a little these DS Max wanna-be companies are giving Cydcor a bad name. I know people in the business. Scot and Aliza, i can get you guys a job with ds max if you want. You might be able to pick up a 800 series BMW and stop eating at Mcdonalds. Aliza, stay beautiful, and put you enthusiasm into something that is worth it. Ask Scot how much you are REALLY going to make when you open that office.

Ok I am an ex-employee of a cydcor branch and I have no regrets. I came upon this web site and now I am addicted to reading the postings back and forth. The reason for this is that I was brainwashed like Alisa. Nobody could tell me that what I was doing sucked. One day I woke up and realized that if I know so much about sales and marketing why am I going door to door. Now Aliza will soon discover that even though she has learned "everything" there is to learn about the business world in 4 months, there are a few things she missed. One of my good friends is a Marketing Director for a fortune 500 company. He makes about 250,000 dollars a year and doesnt even have to brag about it or write to a website. He doesnt have to insult anyone, defend the credibility of his job (Alisa), or manipulate the people who work for him...(Scot). Now I said before, I have no regrets about the business. I made a lot of money and learned a little these DS Max wanna-be companies are giving Cydcor a bad name. I know people in the business. Scot and Aliza, i can get you guys a job with ds max if you want. You might be able to pick up a 800 series BMW and stop eating at Mcdonalds. Aliza, stay beautiful, and put you enthusiasm into something that is worth it. Ask Scot how much you are REALLY going to make when you open that office.

You have only proven the people that are successful in our business right. Look at where we are. Look at were you are. Who really has the right attitude for success?"

I think it is funny how you can judge how sucessful I am by reading my thoughts on an MLM business structure. I look at where I am, and it is easy for me to see that I am OVERQUALIFIED to participate in an MLM structured position. I was not compairning your company to Primerica, I was simply making an example of what a Met Life office offered me and how it is similar to an MLM. I know you do not sell insurance and investment products.

I think you truly make your company look bad by the way you "fly off the handle" in your response. You really seem like you are drowning and you need a rope... I know what the industry is, I have worked for a similar company, I have been contacted by better companies with similar business models that I have turned down. I simply don't see the value in going door to door and cold calling on people. Today I was talking to someone who was in the direct sales industry and he had a gun pulled on him. I honestly don't find that surprising. People in this industry are usually rude, uneducated, and not properly trained to adress customer concearns adequatly.

I'm not "ignorant," I am simply making comparisons. MLMs and pyramids are so similar it is ridiculous. The fact STILL remains, MANY PEOPLE do not veiw MLMs and Direct marketing Companies as LEGITIMATE BUSINESSES. Too much bad press, plain and simple. I would rather not associate myself with the negative press.

In my opinion, a position in direct marketing is a JOB, not a CAREER. There is no professional commitment on the corporation's part.

Honestly good luck with your job, you'll need luck on your side if you plan to make it into a career.

Call me ignorant if you want to keep slinging mud around this board but it honestly makes you look less inteligent. No need to attack people for voicing their opinions. I have enough educational achievements combined with my own financial security that I do not feel envious of your lifestyle or your job. Again, your bosses want you to believe "the 9-5 guy is a sucker..." When in reality, the 9-5 guy could do direct marketing sales, but he CHOOSES not to... No screening, no education requirements, yet homeless people would rather collect cans than work for an MLM...

Remember, I am not calling you ignorant or mudslinging, I am only voicing my opinion on the industry that you choose to log on and defend. I don't see why every rep comes here to attack people and use the word "loser"... Can't you guys/girls just make a credible argument to defend the industry without tearing into people and looking desparate?

Alissa... you went to great lengths to defend your company against our criticisms, even so far as to call us ignorant about five or six times. The trouble is, nobody is badmouthing your company, how could we when no one has even told us what you do? All we know about your company is that a few of you are friends with DS MAX guys, so excuse our "ignorance."

Let me speak for a minute on the topic of accomplishments. If financial wealth and business ownership is your sole definition of "accomplishment," then you're in the right business. For some of us, however, wealth is not the only marker of success. Let's say I graduate from law school and can't find a job. Well, I'll still have a doctorate, and even if all I become is the most educated taxi driver around, I would consider having passed the rigors of a legal education an accomplishment all its own. What's more, I will have funded my entire education via scholarships and money I have already earned by waiting tables. I also consider that an accomplishment. I also consider it an accomplishment that I completed my BA in the standard four years while raising a family and working. During my sophomore year, my daughter was diagnosed with a birth defect that required a liver transplant. I spent an entire semester driving back and forth from the children's hospital in Chicago to attend classes here and be with my daughter there. I did all my studying in the comfort of a pediatric intensive care ward, and still achieved a 4.0 for the semester. I consider that quite an accomplishment.

Let's talk about potentials. The school I will be attending has a 98% placement rate, at an average starting salary of $88,000/yr. MLMs, on the average, have an annual turnover rate that exceeds 100%. MLM employees, on the average, earn less than a minimum wage income (in fact, most of them actually LOSE money).

I admire the fact that you took the time to see what the FTC has to say about MLM and pyramid schemes. What you failed to gleen was that, if an MLM's extra-organizational reciepts account for less than 70 percent of the organization's income, they will be classified as a pyramid scheme. Informally, MLMs are considered "legal pyramid schemes." MLMs follow the same fundamental principles as pyramid schemes, but, as "pyramid scheme" is a legally defined term, the FTC cannot call them pyramid schemes unless they fit the legal definition of one.

Finally, keep in mind that my efforts against MLM are NOT a result of sour grapes, ignorance or jealousy. Far from it. I have a general concern for fair employment. I have found, through independent an unbiased research, that MLM is a dangerous and expoitative industry that is damaging to our society. These conclusions are based on statistical data, not personal experience. If you would like to see some of this research, visit this adress:

http://www.whatisgood.com/MLMvsNPSvsVegas-Where'sTheHarm_files/MLMvsNPSvsVegas-Where'sTheHarm-vert.htm

I do not know anything about your company. Therefore I would not claim too. (this is assuming you are NOT under the ds-max umbrella)

I can say a lot about ds-max. And with darn good reason and lots of evidence.

But I still don't know why on earth you would involve your company in a forum about exposing ds-max. Why would you do that to your selves? If they are your competitors - why are you altruisticly besmirching your own reputation?

Alissa wrote a sophisticated response to you and all you do is compare their company to DS-Max. Why don't you ask questions to Alissa or Scot then comment. So they have a company that is direct marketing, it doesn't mean they have the same system as DS-Max. I personally loved my experience at DS-Max and learned quite a lot from it, but I would never work for them. However I am not averse to working for another direct marketing company as I see potential. A lot of people here complain about working hard. Umm...hello?? That's how you get ahead in life, with a solid work ethic. If you have a steady job right now and you're taking it easy, watch out, you're going to be toast soon. That or you'll never get a promotion.

If you work hard at any job, you'll get promoted once there's an opening.

I'm going off-topic here so basically what I want to say is not all direct marketing companies are the same and stop judging a book by its cover.

And even though I don't know you, Scot, Conner and Alissa, kudos to you guys for what seems like a good company.

i worked for westco, which is the "promotions department" for ADT.......hahaha.....it was a nightmare. Working door to door, waking up in the morning to do bullshit meetings, JUICE, give me a break, everyone in there was a complete loser, so sad, living in a two bedroom apt which was infested with roaches and trash. The worst part was listening to everyone pitch to me in the morning with their stank breathe, because the had no money for food or toothpaste. Those sad bastards. Now that i think about the interview, the owner(s) Eddie Conlon and Stephanie, made it sound so promising , it took a chance. I still have nightmares of that job. if that's what you call it. This is job has been described many times as a cult........and it is just that. mlm at it's finest. Be afraid be very afraid. Oh, i forgot, always maintain a good attitude and work ethic, and always believe in the law of averages. Hahahahahahahahahahahaha.

Sorry but I like talking to you guys too!!!! Mark first: how long were you with DSMAX? How far did you get? Was it in Australia? What did you sell there? And last what are you doing now? Oh and Mark, when I do get old, I will have enough money to get plastic surgery to stay looking younger for a lot longer!!! Without money I wouldnt. I would be average, not ugly!!!!!

Todd, I have read a few things you have written. You are really pissed at this company Hah? Well your advise to me is noted and rejected!!! You are definitely one of the losers Scot was talking about. Not a loser at life. I am not trying to insult you, nor was Scot. But like a loser in a sports game. Excuses, excuses, excuses!!!! Or they cheated!!! Or maybe even I didnt want to win!!!! What ever!! You joined that company for a reason.

You worked hard for a reason. You let them beat you. You could have succeeded and ran a good office your way. You could have learned from the things that you didnt like about others in the business and capitalized off their mistakes. Instead you let them beat you. Now you are resentfull and angry. That is a loser and a poor sport. You chose to play!!! And just for your knowledge. Scot knows a few DSMAX VPs. He plays golf with them. They also stop in here once and a while to buy our advertisements. We are actually competitors of Granton. So your knowledge of that business and of our industry is very little. You are probably just a Trainee that couldnt!!! So many people think that they know how our industry works. But you and most others havent got a clue!!!! Sounds like maybe even Mark has a better idea than you. Even though hes Australian!!! Sorry Mark!!! Todd, go back to college. Its your only hope to find acceptance. You can hide out there for years!!!!

Now for Tim and JJ. Im going to teach you both something today. This is an article from the federal trade commission:
The definition of a Pyramid Scheme is:

"In generic form, a pyramid scheme is an organization in which the members obtain their monetary benefits primarily from the recruitment
of new members rather than selling goods and services to the public. The main benefit of membership is the right to recruit others and to
receive monetary compensation for doing so. Like any chain letter, a pyramid scheme is just a mechanism to transfer funds from one person to
another"
(from

"Like multi-level marketing programs, pyramid schemes provide financial incentives to recruit new distributors. Pyramids compensate distributors almost exclusively for recruiting other distributors; product marketing activities are merely incidental. Pyramid schemes, unlike multi-level marketing plans, are generally prohibited because it is a mathematical certainty that the pyramids will collapse when no new distributors can be recruited. When the plan collapses, most people-- except perhaps those at the very top of the pyramid--lose their money. "

From the Federal Trade Commission
http://www.ftc.gov/reports/fraud97/law-enf.htm

Multi Level Marketing is different than a Pyramid scheme. They are not the same thing!!!!! What we do is different than both. We sell products or advertisements. You do not go out to recruit people. The business recruits. Your job once a manager, trainer, leader, or what ever you call it at DSMAX is to train new people and manage them. Just like at a car lot. They are selling a product for a company and earning a commission for it. The revenue from the sale is divided up and delegated to overhead, witch include paying the trainer for their work. MLMs are companies with structures that go more than two levels deep on a sales structure. To sell to people who join to sell to people to join to sell to people to join and so on. We are totally different!!!! JJ compared prim America with our industry. You are very very ignorant. Our industry is called promotional marketing. The companies in our industry make money from sales. Not from memberships to our companies. We represent other companies or products. Yes we recruit. Yes we expand. And yes we have an opportunity people to run offices. But we do not have a seven level compensation structure for recruitment. You are lost. Do you even know what marketing is? Do you know what network marketing is? How about print media? What about merchandise marketing? Do you know the difference between direct marketing and direct sales? What about promotional advertisement? Or direct advertising? What the difference in advertising and marketing? I bet you think they are all pretty much the same. They all must be multi level marketing!!!! Why, because you dont understand anything about them so you group them together. YOU ARE IGNORANT, IGNORANT, AND IGNORANT.
You cannot and will not ever be successful at running any good business with out knowing the difference between all of the above. I will be taking over this office in Laguna in a few months. We are putting the furniture in Johns new office in La Jolla this month. I was a server at the Macaroni grill less than two years ago. Scot and John have taught me more about marketing than you will ever conceive. You guys will never understand the things it takes to be successful in business. You have only proven the people that are successful in our business right. Look at where we are. Look at were you are. Who really has the right attitude for success?

PS. Mark you seem like a good guy. I am only 24. You probably have great advise to give as a man. But, from what Ive read so far, you dont have enough experience in this industry to outline it.
PPS. Mark let me know what you think about these other guys (like Todd) and how much they know about this business.

I did not work for DSmax but I did some work for an MLM type company called E-Commerce Processing (ECP). I was trained to be deceptive, my boss blatantly tried to rip someone off very badly and it almost cost me the whole deal, and after I made one deal both managers left town and had nervous breakdowns.

I was encouraged to drop out of college, move to NY, and become a manager... The whole thing is a masked pyramid scheme, that is why they answer the phone, "corporate office" or "advertising"... because they list these MLM companies under several brandings to avoid the legal penalties of an illegal pyramid scheme.

My freind own his own business and one day I was working for him... A DSmax employee (DC Advertising) came to his business to sell him a phone plan. It was 3 skanky (honestly, unprofessional hair, clothing, makeup) looking young girls. I told my boss not to do it but he fell for it, thinking he got a deal. On their way out the girls handed me a business card and offered me a job, keep in mind they just sold my "boss" a phone plan... I basically threw out their business card because their decorum seemed all too familiar to what I had dealt with for ECP... Several weeks later I asked my old boss/friend, "how'd that phone plan turn out?"

He told me it ended up costing 200% more than what he was told it would cost and he was pissed, he also cancelled it after 1 billing cycle. I want to know, what kind of business person goes into deal, rips off the owner of a business by presenting false data, and then tries to steal an employee from the person who just bought their product?

The people in the MLM industries typically do not have proper training. My manager at ECp knew we could not get the equipment that a prospect had agreed to get. When I questioned the fact the customer was being decieved I was told, "F*** HIM! Close the deal!"

even insurance companies like Primerica (Citibank division) have awful reputations due to their MLM model. They want everyone to be a "recruiter" and then you get portions of your new hires' commissions... Pyramid scam, that's really all it is if you think about it. Whenever you difectly pocket sales commisions from people under you that you are encouraged to recruit it is technically a pyramid structure.

I even found a Met Life branch that wanted to take me on as a Financial Services Representative. The thing is, this branch uses an MLM structure for unlicensenced reps. Honestly, I have my college degree and I did well in school. For one summer I worked with an MLM and I honestly think it was great sales experience, although the practices were unethical and it is not a good example of "corporate America," I still feel it was good experience for a college break.

I was the ONLY associate in my office that closed a deal before the whole office shut down. My one deal, on my FIRST DAY on my own was the BIGGEST deal in the NATION for that week. It took me FOUR WEEKS of constant calls to an out-of-state office to finally get paid. My manager helped me with the paperwork and I agreed to give him 25% of my commissions for helping me (he wanted 50%, I said NO). Keep in mind, he only helped with the paperwork, he didn't even close the deal or present anything. I was promissed to be let in on part of his deals that were being finalized.

The next week he was calling me from NY and telling me, "go to X store, they are expecting you..." I would go, to close his deals that he set up for me, and there was no appointment, no one was expecting me. Basically my managers were good people but they were really the definition of BOTTOMFEEDERS. From what I have seen in my town, with DC Advertising (Cydor/DSmax affiliate) ripping my old boss off and soliciting me, I realize the MLM businesses carry these types of employees by default due to the lack of training and lack of professional commitment.

Many people do not consider MLMs to be "legitimate" businesses. I think it is a good way to get some sales experince on a resume, but nothing more. There simply is not enough commitment on the corporation's part to warrant investing more than a summer vacation, if that.

Today comes ONCE, yesterday is GONE, tomorrow is coming ONCE and never again. With time continuously moving forward I look at any extended time in an MLM as non-productive. Pushing product and screwing people, convincing them to buy something that you KNOW is not a good value. Something that you KNOW should be cheaper. Something you KNOW you would never buy yourself.

Now that I am finished with school and interveiwing I have been contacted by Emprise Marketing though Monster.com... They are a Cydor division. THANK GOD I did the research. I honestly refuse to work for a questionable company. I am looking for a career with long-term growth and a check every week. I want to be in a learning environment, not one where schooling is discouraged. I do not want to get ahead of myself, but I believe I got the call today where I am pretty much hired into a very reputable company and I will be making a sufficient amount of money and I will be sent to a paid schooling/training program.

I am happy and excited for the future. I look back on my MLM experience and I think it was a good learning experience but a hard lesson. I made the most money in the office and then it collapsed due to the poor business structure and the ethics within management. When working for any MLM, keep in mind that it is not really something that the world veiws as "presigious." I would honestly rather be a garbage man than go door to door with coupons or selling gadgets for cash... Can't you guys see this is crap? Just do it short term, get some sales experience and get the hell out, but don't defend the structure. Looks like a duck, walks like a duck, must be a duck... When I did it it felt like a scam, everyone thinks it's a scam, must be a scam...

I would not want a Cydor, DSmax, or even MLM job on my resume after college, it just looks bad. A lot of crappy people (low-lifes) in this business due to the lack of screening... Keep that in mind when a future employer is looking at "DSmax" on your resume as your previous career... For a summer between semesters won't look bad, as a career it really isn't impressive at all.

Good luck if you like it.

you might as well be ds-max.

Why would you want to tie your company up in a report about bad mouthing ds-max?

Why would you go out on a limb to defend ds-max and then in turn draw so much criticism towards yourselves?

If you know ds-max - then you know about the turnover rate, the lies and the way people are mistreated. If you are any kind of a reputable direct marketing company - you probably hire alot of x-maxers that get abused by the system. Why not - they can go door to door and have great work ethic - right?

I don't think you considered the effects of what your actions would bring back to you.

Anyway - it is one thing for x-distributers like me to rant and rave. When you represent a company you are held to a higher standard of speach. By speaking like the way you do - you reflect on your company as a whole.

You need to reevalute the way you represent yourselves. At least you had the sense not to post the name of your company.

Hi Alisa.
I should really be doing something else, but I can't stop replying to you people. It's such fun.

Let me just reply to a few things.

No.1
I have nothing against any individual - other than those people from DS MAX I have mentioned in previous posts. The reason I attack Scot and Conner is for their attitude. You all say you have great attitudes and and are so positive yet, almost without exception, you denigrate people who leave a job, work at a fast food joint, or don't drive a nice car. Why? If you are successful, truly successful - GREAT -but at least be magnanimous.

The other thing that annoys me is this. I left DS MAX but I feel I am a success. When Scot and Conner - knowing nothing about me - say that I am a loser and "couldn't make it" and that's why I quit, it pisses me off. I left because I hated the person that business had turned me into. I hated how it made me bullshit to guys in my office that had been with me for years thinking they would make it into their own offices when I knew they would never make it.

Like any JOB, some people have got it and some haven't. You may be able to train people to a certain level, but you cannot give people those abstract qualities that make some good and some great.

The other thing I don't like is your blatant materialism. You value yourselves by how much money you have. That's sick. It is also symptomatic of the problems I believe are inherent in DS MAX operations. (I'll pat you on the back if you do well, but kick you in the guts if you are down or threatening to leave.)

I would have thought that it is MORE important to be POSITIVE to people when they're down than when they are doing well.

No.2
You ask about my accomplishments. Well if you read back a few posts you will see where I have explained my situation. (Of course, as Conner suggested I, like you all, could write anything and there is no way to check - You'll have to take my word for it, the same way I have to trust you.)

More importantly, I do not like to promote $$$ accomplishments. It doesn't mean much, really. Perhaps I am a little older than you... but one day - if you are lucky and you have children - you will know what I mean when I say that when your child comes up to you and says "I love you, daddy" there is no greater accomplishment in life. My little girl will have a great life, she'll be well provided for, and she will know what is truly important in life. It certainly isn't money, a fast car or being beautiful.

Finally, you say that I attack your business without knowing what it is about. I never attacked your business - whatever it is. You still haven't explained WHAT it is. With all these managers, administrators and outside offices, it sure sounds alot like DS MAX. Anyway, I really don't care. Tell us all about it, or not. It up to you. I'm sure if it's all above board we won't be reading about it on this site. Like I said above, I replied only after Conner and Scot replied to my remarks. And then it was only because of their bad, supercilious attitudes.

Must go now, take care Alisa... careful in a few years, when you start to get old and lose all that beauty.

I'll be waiting for the next one.

Cheers,

Hi my name Alisa. I also work within Scots company. I have read the past comments both Mark and Tim have written. Conner really put everything in great words for you guys to understand what Scot meant. But you guys still dont get it! Mark takes shots at every little thing. Like Conner miss spelling surgeon. Look, I am an administrator for our Laguna Beach location in OC. California. John Howard is the manager of this office. He has got a great story about his life; about where he came from as to where he is now. Scot gave him the shot that got him to where he is. I know Scot pretty good. He comes here two times a week to check on things. He has got his office to run in LA and still finds time to take care of his people down here in Laguna. Yet, there are still people out there that knock him because he has made a huge success for himself in this particular industry. Scot told us about this site last week while visiting. John wouldnt even respond to the comments you guys have written. He said you guys are a dime a dozen. It just turns out that there is a web site for people like you to take shots at ex-employers. I think its horrible. It sounds like you guys are trying to brainwash everyone else that these companies will not work out for them and that they all are deceptive. You also sound very bitter towards Scot for his comments. Conner accidentally replaced Mark with Tim in his comments; and you guys tear him apart for it. These are good guys just trying to give you their point of view. You dont even understand what a MLM is vs. what we do! Is an Auto dealership an MLM? If your answer is no then neither are we. Our sales structure is identical. Only we have reps that do direct advertising instead of in house retail. Now if you answered yes, youre an idiot! You guys know very little about the business. Your information is third party based. You have combined the two worst things in our culture. Ignorance and negativity. Tim, the only thing going to school makes you successful at, is going to school! What you do with that completed education will determine if you will be successful getting a job or starting a business. But it will not determine if you will be successful at that business. Example: Just because you pass your state bar, does not mean that you will be hired anywhere. Nor does it mean that you would be any good! Where are you guys accomplishments? Youre just jealous of a guy with a successful business and nice things because you have never had them and want them. Mark, thank God that I can only read your words because I just cant take people with Australian accents serious!!!! Okay, Im sorry I just wanted to take a little shot at you in defense of Scot and Conner. Seriously though your experience with this DSMAX Company has made you bitter. Conner wont even write you back because hes not into it. But I am!!!! And what do you want to know about our company? I bet you couldnt wait for the name so you could slander us too. No way buddy. By the way, what do you base success from? Accomplishments right. What are you trying to accomplish? Being happy? Yah that success!! Anyone can settle. But only few can have nice things, and do nice things. Envy these people and learn from them. Dont be jealous of them. Or you will never achieve what you want. Unless youre just average!!!!Love me or not Im successful, beautiful, and happy. What are you?????
PS. Scot and Conner rule!!!!!!!And DSMAX is awesome!!!!!!!!!!!

Time will prove me right about the cult symptoms. People go through years of this and wind up broke. They hurt others in the process. I know first hand. I sincerely hope for your sake that you learn it sooner than later. Good luck to you.

Conner... maybe it's time that you did hear the negative. Maybe you should read these comments and accept what they say and decide whether or not on your own you buy it. How can we expect you to be objective when the only reason you're reading this stuff is because Scot told you to go see how he doesn't want you to act? Why is Scot telling you how to interpret this information, and how to think, and why are you accpeting it? Its fairly obvious that you didn't read too carefully, because you erroneously claimed that I was the one making the "big d**k" comments.

Also fairly obvious is that you didn't really pay much attention to what what was actually being said. My beef was not with your company, or with DS-MAX. My complaint is against Scot, who would like us all to believe that people who fail in MLMs are losers and MLM is the only avenue to success. How can you have such faith in someone who would try to purvey such an absurd statement? Also, I didn't mention that I was going to law school because I was trying to purvey legal information or do anything that a lawyer would do. I mentioned it because I am on the road to success. The chances for sucess in my future are huge. And guess what? I did it all without MLM. According to your employer, this is impossible.

Your chances for success, in comparison, are minute at best in the MLM industry. In fact, using industry averages, your chances of earning an income above 50,000/year is about one in a thousand. Betcha Scot never told you that!

If Scot is telling you to read my comments as an advisory on how not to think, that means he is trying to keep you from thinking critically and objectively. I did not arrive at my conclusions because of my personal experience with an MLM. That was twelve years ago and I could care less about it. You bet it was a learning experience, but I moved on and laughed at the jackasses who actually tried to convince me that selling 3000 dollar vacuum cleaners was a good idea.

The real learning came years later when I decided to objectively research MLM to see if it was a viable employment opportunity for me in a different organization. What I found was that MLM is a business form that is inherently exploitative. Sure, there are good ones, but they are few and far between. Overall, the vast majority of people who become involved with MLMs lose money, and most of the rest just waste time.

There are successes. You may be one of them. Scot may be one of them. Just don't fool yourself into thinking things that you know aren't true just because Scot tells you to. Think objectively. Do some REAL research.

Best of luck to you

Conner... maybe it's time that you did hear the negative. Maybe you should read these comments and accept what they say and decide whether or not on your own you buy it. How can we expect you to be objective when the only reason you're reading this stuff is because Scot told you to go see how he doesn't want you to act? Why is Scot telling you how to interpret this information, and how to think, and why are you accpeting it? Its fairly obvious that you didn't read too carefully, because you erroneously claimed that I was the one making the "big d**k" comments.

Also fairly obvious is that you didn't really pay much attention to what what was actually being said. My beef was not with your company, or with DS-MAX. My complaint is against Scot, who would like us all to believe that people who fail in MLMs are losers and MLM is the only avenue to success. How can you have such faith in someone who would try to purvey such an absurd statement? Also, I didn't mention that I was going to law school because I was trying to purvey legal information or do anything that a lawyer would do. I mentioned it because I am on the road to success. The chances for sucess in my future are huge. And guess what? I did it all without MLM. According to your employer, this is impossible.

Your chances for success, in comparison, are minute at best in the MLM industry. In fact, using industry averages, your chances of earning an income above 50,000/year is about one in a thousand. Betcha Scot never told you that!

If Scot is telling you to read my comments as an advisory on how not to think, that means he is trying to keep you from thinking critically and objectively. I did not arrive at my conclusions because of my personal experience with an MLM. That was twelve years ago and I could care less about it. You bet it was a learning experience, but I moved on and laughed at the jackasses who actually tried to convince me that selling 3000 dollar vacuum cleaners was a good idea.

The real learning came years later when I decided to objectively research MLM to see if it was a viable employment opportunity for me in a different organization. What I found was that MLM is a business form that is inherently exploitative. Sure, there are good ones, but they are few and far between. Overall, the vast majority of people who become involved with MLMs lose money, and most of the rest just waste time.

There are successes. You may be one of them. Scot may be one of them. Just don't fool yourself into thinking things that you know aren't true just because Scot tells you to. Think objectively. Do some REAL research.

Best of luck to you

Conner... maybe it's time that you did hear the negative. Maybe you should read these comments and accept what they say and decide whether or not on your own you buy it. How can we expect you to be objective when the only reason you're reading this stuff is because Scot told you to go see how he doesn't want you to act? Why is Scot telling you how to interpret this information, and how to think, and why are you accpeting it? Its fairly obvious that you didn't read too carefully, because you erroneously claimed that I was the one making the "big d**k" comments.

Also fairly obvious is that you didn't really pay much attention to what what was actually being said. My beef was not with your company, or with DS-MAX. My complaint is against Scot, who would like us all to believe that people who fail in MLMs are losers and MLM is the only avenue to success. How can you have such faith in someone who would try to purvey such an absurd statement? Also, I didn't mention that I was going to law school because I was trying to purvey legal information or do anything that a lawyer would do. I mentioned it because I am on the road to success. The chances for sucess in my future are huge. And guess what? I did it all without MLM. According to your employer, this is impossible.

Your chances for success, in comparison, are minute at best in the MLM industry. In fact, using industry averages, your chances of earning an income above 50,000/year is about one in a thousand. Betcha Scot never told you that!

If Scot is telling you to read my comments as an advisory on how not to think, that means he is trying to keep you from thinking critically and objectively. I did not arrive at my conclusions because of my personal experience with an MLM. That was twelve years ago and I could care less about it. You bet it was a learning experience, but I moved on and laughed at the jackasses who actually tried to convince me that selling 3000 dollar vacuum cleaners was a good idea.

The real learning came years later when I decided to objectively research MLM to see if it was a viable employment opportunity for me in a different organization. What I found was that MLM is a business form that is inherently exploitative. Sure, there are good ones, but they are few and far between. Overall, the vast majority of people who become involved with MLMs lose money, and most of the rest just waste time.

There are successes. You may be one of them. Scot may be one of them. Just don't fool yourself into thinking things that you know aren't true just because Scot tells you to. Think objectively. Do some REAL research.

Best of luck to you

Conner... maybe it's time that you did hear the negative. Maybe you should read these comments and accept what they say and decide whether or not on your own you buy it. How can we expect you to be objective when the only reason you're reading this stuff is because Scot told you to go see how he doesn't want you to act? Why is Scot telling you how to interpret this information, and how to think, and why are you accpeting it? Its fairly obvious that you didn't read too carefully, because you erroneously claimed that I was the one making the "big d**k" comments.

Also fairly obvious is that you didn't really pay much attention to what what was actually being said. My beef was not with your company, or with DS-MAX. My complaint is against Scot, who would like us all to believe that people who fail in MLMs are losers and MLM is the only avenue to success. How can you have such faith in someone who would try to purvey such an absurd statement? Also, I didn't mention that I was going to law school because I was trying to purvey legal information or do anything that a lawyer would do. I mentioned it because I am on the road to success. The chances for sucess in my future are huge. And guess what? I did it all without MLM. According to your employer, this is impossible.

Your chances for success, in comparison, are minute at best in the MLM industry. In fact, using industry averages, your chances of earning an income above 50,000/year is about one in a thousand. Betcha Scot never told you that!

If Scot is telling you to read my comments as an advisory on how not to think, that means he is trying to keep you from thinking critically and objectively. I did not arrive at my conclusions because of my personal experience with an MLM. That was twelve years ago and I could care less about it. You bet it was a learning experience, but I moved on and laughed at the jackasses who actually tried to convince me that selling 3000 dollar vacuum cleaners was a good idea.

The real learning came years later when I decided to objectively research MLM to see if it was a viable employment opportunity for me in a different organization. What I found was that MLM is a business form that is inherently exploitative. Sure, there are good ones, but they are few and far between. Overall, the vast majority of people who become involved with MLMs lose money, and most of the rest just waste time.

There are successes. You may be one of them. Scot may be one of them. Just don't fool yourself into thinking things that you know aren't true just because Scot tells you to. Think objectively. Do some REAL research.

Best of luck to you

I have read everyone's posts and I don't think it is a cult. I have been working with DS Max for 3 days now, and I've checked the list to see if it was true. Here is what I found.

1) Not true. We do not gather around and listen to the manager. We gather sit down and listen to each others stories to see what we could improve.

2) again not true. We are not preoccupied with hiring any new members. we are focused on our goals.

3) Yes, I do agree. The reason being is because we pay for the products and to get that money back with profits.

4) If we have questions or doubts we are not punished. I have asked questions to the manager personally, and I haven't had any problems.

5) There is no chanting or other mind-numbing nonsense.

6) once again not true. The manager talks about how everyone did the day before and praises them for doing a good job.

7) not true. THe "leaders" don't call themselves the messiah, avatar, etc. We're a teamn and everyone is their own boss.

8) nope haven't heard or seen that one with the "we-they" mentality.

9) again I haven't seen that happen

10) That's the thing we don't go door to door selling bogus charities. We are selling actual products that you see in stores or on tv at half the price.

11) nope I haven't come across anyone in the office that would make me feel guilty.

12) nope not true. We have normal working days. 9 - 5 Monday - Friday and 11 - 6 on Saturadays. But making much much more than sitting behind a desk and not advancing.

13) again not true. It is an option and you are not forced to commit your whole entire life to them.

14) not true. We can socialize with whom ever we want.

Mind you I am keeping an open mind and not letting what anyone has to say brainwash me. The only thing is IF I do see the robes and hear mysterious chanting I'm out of there so fast.

Conner -

First; Can I ask what a "brain sergeant" is?

Second; You have a great name for direct sales.

Third; You mention that I "can say what ever I want about myself and there is no way [you] would be able to find out if it is true."

My response to this, Conner, is that it works both ways. How do I know what you say is true? We could both be bullshitting to high heaven!!! I can only be sure of myself, and that is good enough for me.

Finally; This website is for people who have been "ripped off". Many, many, many people have complained about DS MAX and other companies. Do you suggest that we be censored? Should we just let any business or individual do what they choose; irrespective of the pain and suffering it may cause to others?

I guess to you and your colleagues - with your BMWs and Audis - it is much more important to have status symbols, money and material possessions. (That's what I was trying to get at with the little d**k simile. Is a car, a big house - or a big d**k for that matter - the most important thing in the world to you?)

When you guys grow up, you will maybe understand.

PS If you are going to attack me, at least get the name right. Tim is the lawyer.

PPS Keep it up, Tim.

PPPS Sounds like Scot has just started up another MLM. Why don't you, or he, tell us some more about it? I'd be interested.

Keep smiling,

Mark and Tim. My name is Conner. I am one of Scots reps in LA. He told most of us in his LA office to check out the comments on this site. About 8 others and me have been reading through the comments about DSMAX. Scot told us what he wrote. We then read your comments. It looks like you guys didnt even read what he said. We are not a DSMAX company, not a Cydcor, nor any other company listed on this site. We are not independent Branches of them either. We are a company similar to them, but we started alone. Scot studied at San Diego State and designed our program while in college completing his degree in Merchandise Marketing. We have found that there are tons of different companies out there that work like ours. So we cannot vouch for what DSMAX does internally. But we can for vouch direct marketing. First, Mark, you could say what ever you want about what you are doing. You can say you are a brain sergeant. But there is no way for anyone to really know the truth. So you saying that you are going to college and becoming a lawyer does not make you one for real. It is great however that you aspire to become one. And you are correct that some people are not cut out for our industry, and that does not make them a loser. But what Scot was saying was that most all of the people on this site were being negative like losers at sports or games. There are plenty of people that have left the biz that are great people with good futures. But they saw their experience as a learning experience instead of negative event. Its all in how you look at it. Successful people find positives in every negative. People who fail look for other people that have failed to find comfort. Misery loves company! This whole Web site is a place for negativity to thrive. Some talk about revenge. Others just want to take cheep shots. Those are the losers Scot was referring to. The ones that just move on, and use every experience as a learning experience are probably going to find jobs they are satisfied with. The others will always move from place to place.
I just wanted to write you guys in response to your comments to Scot. Our whole office uses this site as an example of what attitudes not to have! Scot actually told us about it. I have worked with him for almost two years and he has helped me to buy my first home in Valencia. And even co-signed on a car for me. He gets taken advantage of more that he could ever take advantage of others. Only because people think that just because he has a lot of money that he should pay for everything for them. And Tim youre not too bright and sound bitter. He has a 3 series BMW. Its a BMW. Its not a want to be BMW!!! He also has a Ford F350 Super Diesel. Is that a want to be Ford?!! I drive an Audi A-6. Is that a want to be Audi?!! You can say you drive what ever. We will never know. But myself, and lots of others can vouch for Scot. Only you know what you truly go home to, if you even have a home!!! We can only guess from your attitude. And sometime guys that brag about having a big d**k really do! You will obviously never have to worry about that!!
Dont be so negative about people with confidence. One day if you do make something of yourself you will be confident too. I have never seen a champion in any sport that wasnt confident. I have however seen a lot of people that use a lot of excuses for why they are not a champion! Keep us posted on your success. Nothing negative though. We dont want to here about it!!!

Scot,

Why do you guys always fall back on such hackneyed old phrases? (ie. "we [the dissenters] are jealous because we didn't make it...")

Is it because you have such a dearth of intelligence and cannot think of anything else?

Is it that Direct Marketing has made you so aggressive and vituperative?

Or are you just so programmed by your mentors that you immediately challenge anyone that does not follow your thought or behaviour?

There are many reasons why people change jobs. How dare you ASSUME that everyone who leaves DS MAX does so because they are no good at it.

I think I'd be pretty good shovelling s**t but there is no way I'd do it for a job. And, if I HAD to do, I'd quit as soon as I could. Does that make me a loser?

By the way, didn't Michael Jordan quit at the apex of his career? I'll bet you think he's a loser too.....

PS. Enjoy your shitty little 3 series BMW.
I think they call 3 series BMs; wannabee BMs.
You know, try hards; 2 bob snobs we call them in Australia.

You're like the guy that always talks about how big his d**k is...... You know what they say, if you have to talk about it......

CU later Pee Wee

Scot you are absolutely clueless. You have convinced yourself that MLM, or whatever euphamism you use, is the only road to success. Furthermore, you have convinced yourself that people who fail in MLM are incapable of success in any other field.

First, it is more likely that I will one day be representing your former employees in a class action lawsuit than serving you burgers. If you would take the time to actually read some of the well written comments from MLM detractors, you will find that many of them have achieved a degree of success reserved for less than .05% of MLM employees.

Statistics Don't lie buddy (well, in MLM-land they do). The average American's income is somewhere between 35,000 and 40,000 a year. The average MLM income is less than minimum wage. Over 98% of product-buy-required MLM employees show a net loss in their first year, prompting about 90% of them to leave their organizations within the first year. This rate of failure is unparalelled in any other industry.

Per employment issues, MLMs are the most complained about industry according to the National Association of Attorney's General. Per consumer issues as a whole, MLM is in the top five.

Most people don't sever their ties with MLMs because they are incapable of performing the job. As I've stated before, most people are willing to work very hard if they feel as though the work will bring them success. Most people are smart enough to realize within the first few weeks that they are wasting their time with, and being scammed by MLMs. This is why they leave, and this is why they get a bad attitude.

In my case, I realized that a company that advertised 385/week to start and then didn't pay us for the first week, that wanted me to make six uncomissioned sales to friends and family members before I could earn money, that was selling a product that was blatantly grossly overpriced, and hired indiscriminately was not a company I wanted anything to do with. Rather, I spent the next four years going to school full time and graduated c*m Laude while working full time and raising three children. In two months I will begin my professional education, with a full tuition scholarship. Does it look to you as though my MLM failure (which wasn't really a failure, I jumped ship during the training program) was the result of laziness, lack of intellect, or a lack of desire to succeed? Think again pal.

I am an owner of a Direct Marketing firm that has no affiliation with DSMAX, Cydcor, Granton, or any other company outside of my own. I have four friends that are owners of independent DSMAX branches in LA and Orange County. So I know how they work very well. I have sat in on their interviews, meetings, and have seen their reps come into my office numerous times. My company runs almost identical to theirs. Today, I was referred to Granton's web site from a friend, and I came across this one.

Every story I have read, with something bad to say about those companies, has had absolutely no merit. All of you sound like a bunch of bad ex girl friends!!!I just wanted to take a moment to let you people know that you are complete losers that have failed at something, and are trying to find comfort in a group tear down of the company you failed in. You are ignorant to success and most likely will always fail with attitudes like this. 95 percent of the people that leave our industry are pissed off because they wasted their time. Successful people never waste their time, they invest it. Stupid people waste their time!!! So if you have wasted your time don't blame a company. Blame yourself.

Now as for getting a 1099. For anyone who thinks this is a bad thing. You are most likely irresponsible and can't manage your finances. You will take home way more money at the end of the year with the write offs that are available to you with a 1099. You probably just didn't put any money away for taxes smart guy!!! Also companies are not responsible for your accounting, you are. I have been 1099 for 7 years and have never had a problem. Course I am responsible with my money!!!! So I say to all of the people who have complained to this web site. Good luck to you. And I will see you around. I am the guy that drives by you in my 323 BMW and orders food from you at the fast food restaurants that you will always work at.
All because I can do what you can't!!!!!!

General Manager
Orange County, U. S.

I currently work for one of the DS-MAX offices in Pittsburgh. I am just working there for the summer to gain some addition experience between semesters. I have found it to be very difficult, but the challenge is what I was looking for. My friend pointed me to this web site and I read a lot of these stories. Some of them sound very brutal, my question to most of the authors is why don't they use thier name. In school, I am studying Business Law, and the first thing they teach you about lobbying for change or public opinion is to not be afraid to let people know who you are. This is the only way to gain validity. Ohterwise you are just a guy bitching about stuff. This was my only real question with your web site.

I am probably going to stay with the them through the summer, since hanging out at the pool is getting old, but I appreciate the "words to the wise" about the company.

Ima, I use to be like you. I was so brainwashed by your 'opportunity' that I defended it like it was some holy grail. Let me tell you, it isn't anything special.

Relax, take a breath, control your emotions and think about what you have achieved: ($30k, a house, a car, an outside deal.) It's not that great really, is it? I know plenty of guys in their early twenties in similar situations. There is opportunity everywhere; please don't put down those people who have become successful doing jobs other than DS MAX.

What most of the posters here (who have been caught up in DS MAX) respond to, is not so much about the business; it is the way the business is conducted. Whatever has happened in the office(s) you have been in, gives you no reason to belittle others who have had bad experiences.

At DS MAX I was lied to, cheated out of money, mislead and had my business affected by the decisions of others. I am ashamed to admit that I have done the same. (s**t breeds s**t)

Perhaps, Ima, in a few years, when you have spent as long as I did with DS MAX (It was called WWI when I started) you will come to realise that the dream 'aint gonna happen.

I saw my promoting owner at the airport a few months ago. He has been in the business for over ten years now. He had a few 'kids' that he was taking to an owners meeting interstate. My overriding emotion was that he must be so bored. Doing the same thing over and over; gaining a crew, losing a crew, lying to him, lying to her. No one retires, no one ever gets their dream. They just end up doing a job. And that is exactly what DS MAX is, a shitty job for most, and an average opportunity for those that are successful.

Let us all know how you are doing in five or ten years. You'll probably still be dragging a bag around the world full of cheap s**t (or cajoling others into doing it) when I've retired.

Good Luck, you'll need it.

Ima, I use to be like you. I was so brainwashed by your 'opportunity' that I defended it like it was some holy grail. Let me tell you, it isn't anything special.

Relax, take a breath, control your emotions and think about what you have achieved: ($30k, a house, a car, an outside deal.) It's not that great really, is it? I know plenty of guys in their early twenties in similar situations. There is opportunity everywhere; please don't put down those people who have become successful doing jobs other than DS MAX.

What most of the posters here (who have been caught up in DS MAX) respond to, is not so much about the business; it is the way the business is conducted. Whatever has happened in the office(s) you have been in, gives you no reason to belittle others who have had bad experiences.

At DS MAX I was lied to, cheated out of money, mislead and had my business affected by the decisions of others. I am ashamed to admit that I have done the same. (s**t breeds s**t)

Perhaps, Ima, in a few years, when you have spent as long as I did with DS MAX (It was called WWI when I started) you will come to realise that the dream 'aint gonna happen.

I saw my promoting owner at the airport a few months ago. He has been in the business for over ten years now. He had a few 'kids' that he was taking to an owners meeting interstate. My overriding emotion was that he must be so bored. Doing the same thing over and over; gaining a crew, losing a crew, lying to him, lying to her. No one retires, no one ever gets their dream. They just end up doing a job. And that is exactly what DS MAX is, a shitty job for most, and an average opportunity for those that are successful.

Let us all know how you are doing in five or ten years. You'll probably still be dragging a bag around the world full of cheap s**t (or cajoling others into doing it) when I've retired.

Good Luck, you'll need it.

Ima, I use to be like you. I was so brainwashed by your 'opportunity' that I defended it like it was some holy grail. Let me tell you, it isn't anything special.

Relax, take a breath, control your emotions and think about what you have achieved: ($30k, a house, a car, an outside deal.) It's not that great really, is it? I know plenty of guys in their early twenties in similar situations. There is opportunity everywhere; please don't put down those people who have become successful doing jobs other than DS MAX.

What most of the posters here (who have been caught up in DS MAX) respond to, is not so much about the business; it is the way the business is conducted. Whatever has happened in the office(s) you have been in, gives you no reason to belittle others who have had bad experiences.

At DS MAX I was lied to, cheated out of money, mislead and had my business affected by the decisions of others. I am ashamed to admit that I have done the same. (s**t breeds s**t)

Perhaps, Ima, in a few years, when you have spent as long as I did with DS MAX (It was called WWI when I started) you will come to realise that the dream 'aint gonna happen.

I saw my promoting owner at the airport a few months ago. He has been in the business for over ten years now. He had a few 'kids' that he was taking to an owners meeting interstate. My overriding emotion was that he must be so bored. Doing the same thing over and over; gaining a crew, losing a crew, lying to him, lying to her. No one retires, no one ever gets their dream. They just end up doing a job. And that is exactly what DS MAX is, a shitty job for most, and an average opportunity for those that are successful.

Let us all know how you are doing in five or ten years. You'll probably still be dragging a bag around the world full of cheap s**t (or cajoling others into doing it) when I've retired.

Good Luck, you'll need it.

Ima, I use to be like you. I was so brainwashed by your 'opportunity' that I defended it like it was some holy grail. Let me tell you, it isn't anything special.

Relax, take a breath, control your emotions and think about what you have achieved: ($30k, a house, a car, an outside deal.) It's not that great really, is it? I know plenty of guys in their early twenties in similar situations. There is opportunity everywhere; please don't put down those people who have become successful doing jobs other than DS MAX.

What most of the posters here (who have been caught up in DS MAX) respond to, is not so much about the business; it is the way the business is conducted. Whatever has happened in the office(s) you have been in, gives you no reason to belittle others who have had bad experiences.

At DS MAX I was lied to, cheated out of money, mislead and had my business affected by the decisions of others. I am ashamed to admit that I have done the same. (s**t breeds s**t)

Perhaps, Ima, in a few years, when you have spent as long as I did with DS MAX (It was called WWI when I started) you will come to realise that the dream 'aint gonna happen.

I saw my promoting owner at the airport a few months ago. He has been in the business for over ten years now. He had a few 'kids' that he was taking to an owners meeting interstate. My overriding emotion was that he must be so bored. Doing the same thing over and over; gaining a crew, losing a crew, lying to him, lying to her. No one retires, no one ever gets their dream. They just end up doing a job. And that is exactly what DS MAX is, a shitty job for most, and an average opportunity for those that are successful.

Let us all know how you are doing in five or ten years. You'll probably still be dragging a bag around the world full of cheap s**t (or cajoling others into doing it) when I've retired.

Good Luck, you'll need it.

Personally DS-Max is a good fundamental system just with the wrong values. The way to make money in DS-Max is don't become a leader, just be a distributor and even if you do become a leader, tell the day of O to go home, that way you can easily make $100-200 a day without giving it to anyone. I do however think that its stupid to have someone in the office for 11 or 12 hours a day with 2 hours of standing around. I worked in clearance in one of the Ontario offices for a summer and I disliked the fact that it was 7 to 7.

If it was say 9 to 6, I would be more understanding, because with clearance you have a warehouse and the settle-ups. Say 9:30 to 5:30 in the field and one hour total for returns and settle-ups. It promotes a cult-like atmosphere, but I still worked there and all I did was ignore everyone except for one person. She's still in the business, but I told her don't get too caught up in it as there are always many other options.

To conclude: DS-Max isn't a scam, but its not a job either. Chances of success are about 1 in 1000, but that's just like any other business.

Ima,

Im very happy with all your success, your way with words has made me laugh out loud. I can tell your a great owner with a lot of potential. You must be an advertising guy right? So you have a house, a car 30,000 on the bank and an Assistant manager. Juice by you big guy. Youve done well! Hows your inventory? Have you tried to take any money out of head office yet? Its your money right? How come you have to get a VP's permission to touch it? You can tell 2 things by your comments. 1. Youre 21 years old. 2. Youve only been doing this for a couple of years. I bet you still think Murray Reinhart is the founder of the company. Come on kid, smarten up. Learn the game, youve made money, you made it. Don't waste your time with these bozos who just neg out, get real. You don't own anything, boy. You own the corporation, yea, and maybe the furniture but thats it. Who does your books? Your taxes? Counts your inventory> DS max does. Why? Cause the got a punk kid excited on building a team and ringing a bell in the field. Now you motivate. Education yourself don't just rely on them to do it all for you. Take your money out of head office and invest it in IMA's name. Make more and take it out. How do you think Larry makes so much money? He sure as hell doesn't make money then let other people worry about right? Lets get real dude. In my book right now your name is IMA IDIOT lets see a smarter rebuttal and make think IMA SMART.

I have a hard time finding you credible based on your writing skills, "guy." Is that hard to believe, guy? I mean guy, what's up wit dat?

See the problem is that once something happens, like you decide you want to evolve beyond the MLM atmosphere, you will still have very crude mannerism and you will have a hard time being taken seriously.

In my first day out on my own I closed the biggest deal in the nation for that given week! I had three deals signed and ready to go. Then my coke-head managers both had nervous breackdowns and hustled back to New York... The whole office got closed over night, and the reason is because the business model does not require qualified people to do this. The wanted me to keep doing sales for them and I decided that I did not feel good about the one deal I had made, not to mention the fact it took almost a month of constant phonecalls to get paid.

The structure of these businesses is awful and the culture they create is one that is focussed on a narror career path. The managers in my office were encouraging me to drop out of college, that is just stupid. And they would say, "look at me, look at my wallet, I never went to school, this is corporate America..."

And you know what, these guys were so bad with the little money they actually had that it was almost funny, they also had swinging emotions that resembled a clinically insane person with severe dementia.

But they called me about 30 times a day, on weekends, always wanted to hang out with me... They were not genuinly "bad" people, I just feel sorry in retrospect that they had such a programmed way of thinking. You only have one life to live, business is not about being cut-throat or screwing customers. I honestly felt so d**n guilty when I finalized the deal I made. I have not been able to go in the business since simply for the fact that I did not truly believe in what I was selling. I convinced some guy to buy something that I KNEW was worthless.

My manager actually tried to pencil in numbers to decieve the client... When the client was signing he saw it and freaked out. I called my manager and said, "why did you change X to Y?" He reponded, "OH F***, hahaha, d**n he saw that... okay, change it back..."

From that moment on I realized something was really wrong with the business practices.

MLMs are structured for people with low educational levels... It is like how the army recruits people straight out of highschool- it is easier to mold a person's beliefs when they have less education.

if you are proud of you low education that is fine, the way I see it is that jobs can come and go, companies can go under and it is completely out of your control; but no one can ever take away your acheivements, educations, and degrees.

A mind is a terrible thing to waste.

What do you know..... the same four people that i mentioned in my report are the same four guy's that had a rebuttal. and the guy that got a e mail from ds max / cydcor is no longer going to ever check out ds max because of my grammer????
hey juice by you, guy. Doesn't this all show that you don't have to be the most intelligent guy to do this? But you know what guy , i guess i am perfect for this business because I am just a regular guy with little education and skills then anyother guy or girl that has came into our office and i made it to a position that i feel i could have never been if i wasn't doing this. I own my first house ..... and yes i own it , not the bank. the ds max oppurtunity has givin in one year then probably all four of those guy's have gotten in 2 years. And todd and james , you guys are the funniest two guy's i've ever heard, on complains about 16 000 in debt with our "outfit" and the other guy rants about roofing our helping people with there lives building houses , then takes it all back, saying he did it in colage. I passed by a burger king when i was flying threw Pittsburg, was that you working there. Where do you guy's get the right to shoot people down for giving you facts about the company trying to glorify why they are doing this and you rip them apart. this is why i posted something on this site in the first place. Have you ever heard the term "NEGBAG"? That's good because in my office that i own we kill "negbags" with positive's and you would be beyond repair. To be honest with you i don't know or promote the whole 16 000 office thing either, but i know there are a hell of a lot of us. And my business is going nowhere but uphill. as i said in just 4 months of being incorperated i have a house, car, 30 000 net, an assistant manager, 34 guys and you know whats crazy all of them came in on an ad that wasn't decieving (using real names of people in the office) it said Direct sales involved. Anyway i have to go "brainwash and munipulate" my guy's in atmosphere now. thats what i do as an owner right? Say that to my assistant manager. Sorry if my paragraph wasn't at university level either my a*s was hurting me the whole time because of all the money in my wallet. come on you four "are you ready?". Lame rebuttals as always are welcome!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Before I cut and paste the list here are two things to think about Ima.

1) Why on earth would you promote up and down having $30,000 saved? If it was $500,000 and up maybe - but I know a bartender who had more saved than that. I hope that you have the money in your name and not in head office savings. It just might disapear.

2) I rebut a lot of these reports. But I didn't start them all. No way. And I don't make all the rebuttals. I couldn't. Or didn't you realize that?

Now people : here is a list of cult symptoms. They fit dsmax.

1. The group is focused on a living charismatic leader to whom members seem to display excessively zealous, unquestioning commitment.
2. The group is preoccupied with bringing in new members.
3. The group is preoccupied with making money.
4. Questioning, doubt, and dissent are discouraged or even punished.
5. Mind-numbing techniques (for example: meditation, chanting, speaking in tongues, debilitating work routines) are used to suppress doubts about the group or its leader(s).
6. The group's leadership dictates sometimes in great detail how members should think, act, and feel.
7. The group is elitist, claiming a special, exalted status for itself, its leader(s), and members (for example: the leader is considered the Messiah or an avatar; the group and/or the leader has a special mission to save humanity).
8. The group has a polarized, "we-they" mentality that causes conflict with the wider society.
9. The group's leader is not accountable to any authorities (as are, for example, clergy with mainstream denominations).
10. The group teaches or implies that its supposedly exalted ends justify means (for example: collecting money for bogus charities) that members would have considered unethical before joining.
11. The group's leadership induces guilt feelings in members in order to
control them.
12. Members' subservience to the group causes them to cut ties with
family, friends, and personal pre-group goals and interests.
13. Members are expected to devote inordinate amounts of time to the group.
14. Members are encouraged or required to live and/or socialize only w
ith other group members.

Some one else posted the above. But it fits!

You know, part of being ready comes from knowing what you are talking about. Every verb I used when talking about framing was in the past tense. It was what I did during summers when I was in High School and after my freshman year of college.

That brings me to my next point - I wasn't invested in DS-Max. I worked for Top Flight Ent. during the summer, between semesters. I thought that the whole thing was really creepy with all the chanting, loud music, question dodging, and everybody had a flight-attendant's sincerity. But I was told that I should make at least $350 to $500 a week, so I kept an open mind. I busted my a*s in the field for four and a half weeks, until I got my first paycheck. At this point I realized that it was ALL BS. I ended up averaging $215 a week, and that doesn't include gas, food, mileage, etc. I also found out that that was pretty much the average in the office - not $350 to $500. So I left before the damage really got bad. At this point though, most people are so brainwashed by the idea of some magical "opportunity" that they go on, no matter how financially devastating it is.

So, to answer your question, Ima, I didn't succeed in DS-Max because I wasn't trying to succeed. I didn't wan't to be like all the losers in the office who carried chips on their shoulders because they were "going to be leaders/managers/owners in x amount of time". Instead I returned to school in the fall (despite my owner's and co-worker's objections).

One thing I find hilarious is when you mention the eight steps as something DS-Max invented. The idea that the principles of working hard and showing up on time are confined to DS-Max workers is really funny. No, these work habits are not unique to DS-Max, but to label them to make them easier to remember for morons and chanting, that is a DS-Max original.

But Ima, here is the final exam to see if you really are ready, or if this is yet another load of BS:

Please name one independant source that can verify the claims of 15,000 owners used by every manager/owner/leader for recruiting, defending, etc. Also, please provide a figure detailing how many of those owners end up going out of business. And, if you could, please provide the avg. annual income of those 15,000 owners. I mean, you use these figures all the time, right? Don't you want to make sure that it is valid?

Good luck!