Quicken Loans Abbey Wrysch QUICKEN LOANS... logical response, yet less than half the truth... Internet
My name is Andrew Lang and I am a Director of Mortgage Banking here at Quicken Loans. I want to thank you for giving us the opportunity to assist you with your home financing. Your Mortgage Expert, Abby Wrysch and I are ready to put your mortgage in motion! As a next step, please sign your application and provide the supporting items from the "things we need from you" page in the timeframe Abby discussed with you. We've received your commitment of $0.00 and will continue processing your loan upon receipt of your documents.
Please note that the commitment fee was at first $0.00 when I mistakenly signed the papers! Then it was changed to $500 and I was charged a deposit.
Luckily my house and property kept their value since its worth has doubled since I tried to get a loan to pay off predatory credit cards, and to continue work on my house. The responses I received after contacting business organizations about Quicken Loan, by Quicken Loans with people paid a salary to contradict people like me, let me know that they had no concern for customers, only businesses. And Quicken Loans sound so logical when they are just a ship of struggling rats trying to take their customers for as much money as they can, otherwise why keep the $500 (and other amount) deposits when they have done nothing to earn it? They will explain this away logically, only 50% correct, since they state everything that is for their benefit and not their customers. Just read the complaints that proliferate. I was told that the process was started when the fact is I had to run around and do all the work.
Here is my story:
Back in May 2009 I watched the advertising about a new plan
that President Obama was supporting, or so I thought, and I contacted a BBB A
rated company named Quicken Loans. This site advertises: Obama Urges Refinance Now, $180,000
Refinance under $999/mo. See Rates No Credit Check Required, on
www.CalculateNew Payment.com. One enters the site and am confronted with the
headline US Treasury Bailout of Fannie and Freddy, Refinance with More
Confidence, and there is a calculate new payment requirement using
CalculateNewPayment.com. The person entering the site then fills out a series
of forms that contain personal information including our social security
numbers.
I was then contacted by the representative Abbey Wrysch, whose title is Executive Mortgage Banker-President's Club, for Quicken Loans. She was my first contact.
After quite a few discussions online and on the telephone Abbey Wrysch hurriedly pushed for me to go online and electronically sign contracts. In Abbey Wryschs own words: I can't provide a good faith estimate until I accept your application. Once I receive your application I will have an approval including a full set of loan documents within an hour. Let me know when you are ready.... In this way she stated that if I do not do this she could not lock in the lowest interest on record. She led me to the page and guided me to the place where to click to electronically sign the forms. I was told that there would be no more than about $3500 for ALL fees (in her words: The closing costs based off of county specifics are $3429.00. This is a high side estimate.). She promised that I would be able to pay off all my credit card debt (one of the reason for applying), and that I would be given a cash out amount of $25,000. The credit card debt was NOT to be a part of the cash out but in addition to this amount. I should have known that signing papers before a good faith estimate is a red light! Only this is new to me and I was, and am, desperate to resolve my credit card problems.
After I rushed to sign the paperwork and gave Abbey my credit card information, I mentioned I have no idea if the CITIBANK would honor the card since (like with all my cards) I am maxed out. On the Good Faith Estimate that I signed, which was not the estimate returned to me, it was marked that there was ZERO amount required for the deposit. See Quicken Loan #1 to see this in writing. On the document I signed the deposit of $0 and this was changed to $500 after signing and returned to me. So what I signed and what I received were different. I even remarked about how kind I thought they were not charging me the deposit, thinking they would somehow roll this into the actual loan? Here are the words I used in my correspondence to Abbey Wrysch sent: Sat May 02 01:03:35 2009: Thank you for waving the deposit. I do not have a copy of the original set of documents I signed, instead I have a set that has been altered, and without this evidence what I must do is eat the truth. This message was the one when I set out the discrepancies.
Then a real estate friend of mine looked at the papers he said what she promised is not in the Good Faith Agreement that I signed. Abbey Wrysch kept pointing out that I would put in my pocket about $900 a month. My friend said her words and the figures do not add up. He said I wish I had come to help you before now. This is outrageous since it is $7500 more expensive and there is NO cash out.
The fact of the matter is I was scammed out of $500 that I could ill afford to pay, and even though they agreed to close the loan and offered no service, they ran a $500 deposit through my credit card and took payment. These are the documents I now have in my file that they sent me.
I have tried various avenues to address this problem and have been left in greater need than before I started this process.
From a former employee: (((link redacted)))
In the section: Allow me to give you a little peak behind the curtain of what I was witness to during my time at Quicken Loans:
The last item is:
-requirement of $500 deposit taken by credit/debit card only in order to even start the loan application process. Huge revenue generator for Quicken Loans. Positioned as a "Good Faith Deposit" but try getting this refunded in "good faith" if you decide to change your mind.
(((link redacted)))
(((link redacted)))Citibank honored the $500 deposit for Quicken Loans, made no
attempt to contact me, and when I contacted them they chose to place me into a
vicious financial cycle that I struggling with daily since May 2009. The trap
is formidable since I live paycheck to pay check like with most Americans in a
tough economy. The way the customer is handled is more like a slave than a
customer, since when in trouble every company uses the same lame excuses, and
heaps fees upon fees as if being poor is the worst crime one can commit in
America! They knock us down and
effectively kick us in the face.
6 Updates & Rebuttals
Bman
Philadelphia,Pennsylvania,
United States of America
What To Do If Scammed....
#7Author of original report
Sat, November 20, 2010
Contact Your United States Senators
Every state has two United States Senators. Senators are elected on a state wide basis and represent your entire state in Washington D.C.. Your United States Senators have enormous power and enormous influence. A simple letter or phone call from a U.S. Senator's office can move mountains. Every United States Senator has an office that deals with constituent complaints involving a number of issues -- every problem imaginable are handled by your United States Senators' office. Plus, they want to get re-elected and they serve their voters not the business.
http://www.senate.gov/
Contact Your United States Congressman/woman
Unlike Senators, your state has anywhere from one to over 50 United States Congressmen/women. In your congressional district, you have ONE United States Congressman/woman. Like Senators, members of Congress deal with a huge amount of voter problems -- you name the topic, and they can and will help you.
https://writerep.house.gov/writerep/welcome.shtml
Contact The United States Department of Justice
The Department of Justice is the federal government's chief law enforcement agency and prosecutorial office.
http://www.justice.gov/
And my favorite:
Contact The Federal Trade Commission (FTC)
It is the only federal agency with both consumer protection and competition jurisdiction in broad sectors of the economy. The FTC pursues vigorous and effective law enforcement; advances consumers interests...
This is the agency that companies fear.
http://www.ftc.gov/reports/index.shtmContact The Securities and Exchange Commission (SEC)
This agency regulate all companies that are trading stock publicly. They also are very concerned with companies who engage in fraudulent activity which might manipulate their stock price and give investors a false picture of the truth of a company's heath.
http://www.sec.gov/complaint.shtml
Contact The Internet Crime Complaint Center (IC3)
Report the offending company to this feared and effective government task force. Your aim here is to highlight the criminal and fraudulent nature of the companies activities. You must be able to detail how they wronged you and stole your money.
http://www.ic3.gov/complaint/default.aspx
Contact The Council of the Better Business Bureau
The Better Business Bureau is another group that many businesses need to answer to -- first it has enormous influence and second, many businesses are members. Since it is paid for by businesses it may not be as effective as the government agencies that are created to protect you.
http://www.bbb.org/
Contact The National Consumer Law Center
"The National Consumer Law Center (NCLC) is the nations consumer law expert, helping consumers, their advocates, and public policy makers use powerful and complex consumer laws on behalf of low-income and vulnerable Americans seeking economic justice.
Todays consumer marketplace is complex and full of potholes, even for those of us with all the necessary skills and advantages. For unsuspecting low-income consumers its far more treacherous - even the smallest misstep can lead to financial ruin and a sense of hopelessness that paralyzes individual progress."
http://www.nclc.org/
Contact The National White Collar Crime Center (NW3C)
They will help you with filing a complaint against the company showing you how to do it and provide other resources. White collar crime is a term coined for something that many businesses engage: it is fraud and outright theft committed by those wearing a white shirt and tie to work everyday.
http://www.nw3c.org/overview/what_we_do.cfm
Bman
Philadelphia,Pennsylvania,
United States of America
Two Sites....
#7Author of original report
Fri, November 19, 2010
Here is the site for Abby, our President Lady:
http://www.linkedin.com/pub/abby-wrysch/b/4bb/958
And here is the place to file a complaint:
http://www.ftc.gov/reports/index.shtm
Bman
Philadelphia,Pennsylvania,
United States of America
MORE LIES and DECEPTION
#7Author of original report
Thu, July 15, 2010
I yet to receive any reply from Clayton about my deposit refund as was suggested that I would receive back. So this is but another smoke screen for continued lies, deception, and unethetical anti-people business practices. Once in America there was the LAW against USURY, and sometime soon this law needs to reappear.
Bman
Philadelphia,Pennsylvania,
United States of America
We Shall See...
#7Author of original report
Wed, July 07, 2010
I have been contacted by a representative from Quicken Loans, and they claim to have a team of people working to release my deposit. The Rep stated that I may qualify for a refund and this decision should take place by Friday. I will report my experience using the words of the Rep in either case. The document will contain the exact words given to me. I refuse to talk on the telephone and all communication must be through email. Stay tuned...
Bman
Philadelphia,Pennsylvania,
United States of America
You Must Be Kidding Me?
#7Author of original report
Wed, June 23, 2010
Here are some of the responses that you have given previous people that complained about the same poor treatment by the same penned author.
In order for us to even accept your deposit, you must have signed your online application, acknowledging our deposit policy and authorizing us to charge it. If you'd like to review what you signed and agreed to, please reference the document entitled "Interest Rate Disclosure & Deposit Agreement."
It sounds as if your loan was denied for income issues. If that is the case, we would refund any money not spent on your behalf. If your appraisal cost $350, you would be refunded $150. For the record, in a denied loan, we keep nothing. We gain nothing from working with a client we can't help. Our goal is to close a loan and help people. Not pay appraisers.
If your appraisal came in low, we would deny your loan. In case of denial, we refund any money not spent on your behalf. An appraisal & credit report can be well over $500 - it depends on what area of the country you live in. We're happy to share what the costs were for your loan and you're also entitled to a copy of the appraisal and credit report. If you didn't get them, let me know. I'm happy to have them sent to you.
Secondly, it sounds like we accepted your deposit and you signed your loan application. When you sign your loan application, you authorize us to charge your deposit. The application is a contract. Specifically, your deposit is referenced on the document entitled "Interest Rate Disclosure."
The deposit allows us to start working on your behalf. We begin to spend money on needed items like credit reports
, appraisals, locking your rate and processing your loan. Based on what you said, it sounds like we were ready to close your loan for you, meaning had likely spent far more than your deposit would ever cover. I hope the deposit makes more sense to you now.
When we found out we could not finance your property, we immediately (on 08/18/09) refunded you $388.86 of your $400 refund, which is customary when we deny a loan for ineligible property type. The remaining $11.14 was retained to pay for your credit report. When we were informed Jon promised you a FULL refund and you had not received it, we did refund the remaining $11.14 on 09/10/09.
There is a pattern here where the customer is always wrong!
I was contacted by one of your representatives on my personal email address, and here is my response to him:
I have not communicated extensively with your client relations team.
I have however been taken advantage of to the tune of $500 - there were no expenses incurred.
I really think that your business should stop the practice of taking this deposit when people can least afford to pay it - like in my case.
You have your RATIONALIZATION, albeit a canned one, but no matter how logical the result is a social wrong.
If you are not going to give me the money back - there is nothing to discuss.
Unless this is the case, do not contact me again.
Here is a message that I copied from another happy customer:
"I worked for Quicken Loans for almost 6 years. A rather phenomenal length of time. Everything you say is the absolute truth. These people are the biggest scumbags I have ever worked for in my entire 40 year career. Although they espouse the greatest in customer service, it is quite obvious they talk out of both sides of their a*s. They use and lose the bankers and absolutely keep potential client's good faith money. When I worked there I held several different positions and got to see the whole picture. I believe the reason they get away with it is, because like Dan's buddy Kwame', they know how to skirt the law and how to avoid having to answer for all the lowdown, scandalous s**t they pull. They threaten you and make people sign documents when you leave saying you will not go to the press with any information about how this organization runs. If you should go against their instructions, you are threatened with a lawsuit. I have so much information I kept from day one because I knew immediately this place had totally bad karma. It is so totally unbelievable to me how they have gotten away with it all this time without ever so much as having to answer. The leadership, beginning at the top are nothing but a bunch of individuals who are legends in their own minds. They're all a pompous bunch of asses. Back when I worked there, and it was when the mortgage boom was rockin', they fed people red bull every afternoon to keep the banker's pumped so they could work until midnight. Cocaine was the drug of choice for many in leadership roles. Hey, whatever it took to be able to work 18+ hours a day. They advocated being married to someone from Quicken and there were many married couples that did work there. They felt that only someone married to a Quicken employee could understand the lengthy hours required to make the millions you were lead to believe you would make. These were the most immoral bunch of people I have ever been exposed to in my entire life, and I'm no prude by any means. The only names in your report that I recognize are Mark Mazey and Jeff Perry. I actually worked for Mark Mazey for a quick minute. Bottom line, these are bottom feeders who have sucked the lives right out from under great masses of people by creating the mortgage situation we are in today. All their fancy loans - NINA - No Income, No Assets needed. How? Where were the feds during all this?? Anyway, the bottom line is, Dan Gilbert has a law degree but never took the bar. Granted he is a very conniving slimy b*****d. After all, he helped bail out Kwame' didn't he. Nuff said!"
You were wrong to do this to consumers! The public aren't the mortgage experts - they have to trust you! You used alot of people and as a result I'm one you could have saved but chose not to help! The Obama plan was supposed to be a way to save homes, and Quicken should have done something to make this right!
Kelly at QuickenLoans
Livonia,Michigan,
USA
Response from Quicken Loans
#7UPDATE Employee
Mon, June 21, 2010
Hi Bruce.
I'm sorry you feel that you were mislead in any way. We disagree.
We are completely transparent about our deposit. We have nothing to hide. As explained in our replies to the complaints you filed with the State of Pennsylvania and the Better business Bureau, our bankers are trained to explain our deposit policy up front at the time of application, potential clients can read about it on our site - https://www.quickenloans.com/about/quicken-loans-deposit or watch a video about the deposit and our mortgage process on Youtube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YNumQBaCWMM
Additionally, each and every client is provided with an Interest rate Disclosure and Deposit agreement that they sign at the time the apply. That agreement provides that if a client chooses not to close their loan for any reason, the deposit is considered non-refundable. Accordingly, when you withdrew your loan application, we retained your entire deposit. The moment you signed your application, we began working on your loan. We locked your interest rate (which carries a fee on the secondary market), ordered various third party items, and provided you with a fully underwritten conditional approval letter. If you were not ready to proceed with a loan and/or did not agree to the terms of your deposit, you could have taken more time to make a decision or declined to proceed entirely.
Included in that very same application is your good faith estimate. So in order for us to take your deposit, you must have seen and signed the very good faith estimate that you're saying we wouldn't provide.
Quicken Loans is the nation's largest online lender and 5th largest retail lender. We speak to over 3 million people each year. When less than a fraction of a percent of those clients complain, we think we are doing pretty well. We are certainly sorry you do not agree with our decision. All we are asking is that you honor the commitment you made to us when you agreed to proceed with your loan, the commitment that included that your deposit was non-refundable if you chose to walk away from the loan process. Continuing to post online or complain to outside agencies will not change our decision.
If you have any questions, feel free to reach out to me directly: Kelly@QuickenLoans.com
Thanks,
Kelly
Quicken Loans
Kelly@QuickneLoans.com