Complaint Review: Quicken Loans Inc

Appraisers have been looking at the values of houses in a way is the glass half full or half empty. Its's a tough job in this market place. It's a very thank less job. It's like being a police officer. Everyone wants and needs the police but once you see them in your rear view mirror you hate them all of a sudden. Once your appraisal comes in low you dislike the appraiser. With that being said i have been in this business 12 years and this has been a common theme at every company. So i know how you feel the worst call I have to make is when appraisal comes in low. I have been able to combat this by pointing customer to factual data prior to appraiser coming out. Documentation beats conversation with appraisers.

 Stuff like recent sales that have sold same style houses and size in the neighborhood. Keep in mind has to be within the last 6 months or very close. You have to look harder then ever. Also keep in mind that some houses are sold oustide of what is called in a lot of States Multiple listing services making it even harder. Also a lot of appraisers just use the MLS. So prior to appraiser coming out and booking that appt. talk it up. Talk to realtor or go online and get the facts. Talk it up with the apprasier then set appointment.  The appraiser should be able to save you your $350-$450 dollars if you are completely out in left field with the value. They can't tell you a value over the phone. Also Keep in Mind bankers and lenders can't talk to appraisers at all. This info and facts can only come from the homeowners themselves. They are the ones who have to feel comfortable with the value and loan because they are paying the bill for the next 15 to 30 years.

If you have any questions or need help feel free to contact me maybe rippoffreport will post my cotact info? Below

usafhamortgage@gmail.com

Well, I see Quicken is still up to its old tricks! I worked for them straight out of college when I was 22. I knew nothing of mortgages let alone finance. Two weeks into my "Quicken University" Mortgage training (which focused on sales) I was put of the phone to get people's SS# so I could pull credit reports. I had to get so many a day so I didn't care if the "client" told me they were in BK I'd still pull the credit just to check one off my list. 3 weeks later I was on the floor full time (and by full time I mean at least 12 hours a day) Taking people's information and passing it on to my team leader because quite frankly after 5 weeks I still wasn't sure what to do with it, and of course I still had a quota of phone numbers, credit pulls, and credit card numbers to hit. The first month or so was awful as people were asking questions that any "mortgage expert" should know so you become good at ways to conceal your ignorance while you press the mute button to yell the question to someone near by. However, one message was made very clear to me, "Just get the credit card number" I was told all things could be figured out from there.  The very first time I "presented" a loan a senior banker (he'd been there 6 months longer than me!) was put on the phone with me to listen in. The senior banker and my team leader wouldn't let me get off the phone with the client(who had made it very clear he had no interest in giving the deposit) The poor man eventually got so desperate to get off that he gave a fake credit card number. I was also encouraged to lie to the customers, "whatever it takes" I routinely told people that I was married, had kids, had worked at banks or other mortgage companies, that I'd been at Quicken a long time, that I had bought many houses and my personal favorites that I was "one of Quicken's top bankers" or "I'll be your banker for life". Ha! All of these were completely untrue. One girl in the cube next to me once was having trouble getting a credit card number so she told the guy that he'd get the Quickbooks software every year free if he did the loan. He went through with it...I wonder how that turned out. Truthfully, the bankers don't really care, no one lasts there long enough for it to matter. Sadly, once you're there 6 days a week 12 hours a day you start to forget you're dealing with real people, the whole thing becomes a game. If you can get away with it then do it and that includes overcharging people.
I personally left in Nov. of 2006 after being seriously overworked and underpaid. The feather that broke the camels back however was when Quicken introduced their option ARM loan, (which was basically a negative amortization loan masquerading as something better) and I refused to sell it because it was a bad loan. My division boss emailed me and demanded to know why I was one of only 3 people who had yet to sell it. I was given two weeks in which time I had to sell one or be blacklisted {"Just tell them that house values go up by so many percent a year so they'll never be upside down" hahahahaha I guess I was on to something back then} Anyways, after two weeks I hadn't sold one and was taken in for a talking to...I quit after that. I was an amazing day and the first time I'd seen the sun in 10 months.
Although to be fair working there was a surreal experience most of the bankers were under 25 years old, the rest were tyically under 30 (even my boss was 27) I spent my days throwing around Quicken provided balls with the other kids while on the phone, dutifully put my customers' sensitive information in the monster faced shredder bins, waited for the occasional days days in which they would bring us donuts or hotdogs, watched as workers dressed as fairies or mice would walk through the office, had pie throwing contests, a battle of the bands where employees formed musical groups, the Gilbert awards, a mock Oscars for employees, I won tickets to baseball games (provided I come back after the game was over of course) won gift certificates and of course had free slushies, popcorn and cappuccino all day. All this was very cool although I not sure what purpose it served as it does nothing for the customers and it certainly provided me with nothing more than a distraction. Although, I guess if you are offering a job no adult would be willing to do and your only option left is kids you have no choice but to cater to your audience....

Oh and as a final note it's funny to see that Dan has clearly hired people to handle the PR nightmare that is on this website. Good luck with that!

And to the author just stand your ground its just a game of chicken, they're waiting to see who will cave first and they're hoping it's you. Quicken isn't always the devil but you can do much better.

Get a load of this photo below of Jay Farner closing a sale. LOL!

I can't believe how I didn't see my post reflecting the view of someone that works at Quicken.  All employees talk about how their fellow coworkers don't know a d**n about the mortgage industry and are only trained how to take a credit card for the $500 deposit.  I will try and be more clear in the future.  By the way, if you are trying to say that only someone that works at Quicken would tell you that builder upgrades are worth any adjustments to an appraisal these days than I feel sorry for whomever you may work for now.

Look, I am very sorry that anyone has to deal with Quicken Loans.  The fact of the matter is that the idiot rebutting your posts is working for Quicken.  Quicken, sir, is a chop shop.  They hire anyone and everyone the can that has no industry experience so that they may brainwash them into believing that they will make a huge salary, while working them to death.  So what happened is you were taken in as a client by people who did not know what they were doing.  The whole objective of upper management is to play a numbers game. So many phone calls = so many new loan submissions = so many closings. so you are not a client to them, but rather a number.  Rather than really research your situation and create a custom tailored solution, they "throw your file at a wall and see if it sticks".  Not only that, but they have no good programs to help unique situations.  So the basics are: deal with an experienced broker who knows what he is doing, not a starving, underpaid, overworked, inexperienced idiot who has been taught how to sell, but not to do a mortgage.  Sorry for your experience.  They really don't deserve the success that they have accumulated over the years. 

For one, I am not employed at Quicken so I am not really trying to answer your question because I don't really care all that much about you.  Since I do not have your appraisal handy, I can't comment on your "identical" comp on page 7.  However, if I were to take a guess, page 7 would probably reflect comps 4,5, and 6.  This would indicate that this house you are referring to is 1. Sold a longer time ago than what would be considered reasonable to use at the current time or 2. Is not actually sold and is just a listing, which would tell me that it isn't worth much at all for a comp.

There is no need to get upset because the sink in your utility room is not worth anything.

You still have not answered the questions on how 2 exact houses with the same footage can be so different in prices or how one of them can lose over 90 sq ft according to the tax documents and lose a room between two apprasials. This indicates something is wrong. Oviesly the $5,000 you lost out on by my not falling for your bait and switch. 

In regards to the apprasail:  Quicken does use a non biased appraisal as does all lenders these days due to the HVCC laws.  Also, the majority of things you mentioned your home has makes no difference whatsoever to an appraised value.  Cabinets in the garage $0, wired stereo $0, water filtration $0, utility sink $0, energy standards $0 (at least you didn't say you recently painted or have new carpet).  Square footage should be determined by the tax office, so these should be the same.

In regards to the employees (in my opinion):  While there are somewhere in the neighborhood of 1,100 "mortgage bankers" (Quicken is more  of a broker or correspondent than bank, so I am not sure why they are called bankers.  They will claim otherwise, but if I am wrong why would the "bankers" need to take the broker licensing exams?), only maybe 200 of them have any sort of real knowledge.  So you have about a 80% chance of speaking to someone that doesn't know anything about a home other than their parents may have owned one.  As long as they can get you to give them your credit card information for the deposit they will have a position at Quicken Loans.  Most of the training that goes on at Quicken has nothing to do with actual mortgages.  The training is based on how to respond to someone that says they wants to talk to their spouse, the rate is higher than what someone else is offering, the costs are too high, or any other objections you might have.  The reason your "banker" did this to you is because he was told by his "leader" that if he didn't keep his averages up he will need to work from 8 to 8 M-F and probably will need to come in Saturday and maybe Sunday.   

In regards to the apprasail:  Quicken does use a non biased appraisal as does all lenders these days due to the HVCC laws.  Also, the majority of things you mentioned your home has makes no difference whatsoever to an appraised value.  Cabinets in the garage $0, wired stereo $0, water filtration $0, utility sink $0, energy standards $0 (at least you didn't say you recently painted or have new carpet).  Square footage should be determined by the tax office, so these should be the same.

In regards to the employees:  While there are somewhere in the neighborhood of 1,100 "mortgage bankers" (Quicken is more  of a broker or correspondent than bank, so I am not sure why they are called bankers.  They will claim otherwise, but if I am wrong why would the "bankers" need to take the broker licensing exams?), only maybe 200 of them have any sort of real knowledge.  So you have about a 80% chance of speaking to someone that doesn't know anything about a home other than their parents may have owned one.  As long as they can get you to give them your credit card information for the deposit they will have a position at Quicken Loans.  Most of the training that goes on at Quicken has nothing to do with actual mortgages.  The training is based on how to respond to someone that says they wants to talk to their spouse, the rate is higher than what someone else is offering, the costs are too high, or any other objections you might have.  The reason your "banker" did this to you is because he was told by his "leader" that if he didn't keep his averages up he will need to work from 8 to 8 M-F and probably will need to come in Saturday and maybe Sunday.   

Just a couple of comments to the OP regarding market value and refinancing:

1) The lender does not set the value of your home. In fact, as of May 2009 the lender does not even hire the appraiser!  Look of Home Valuation Code of Conduct (HVCC) that became effective May 1 2009. The lender has to go through an appraisal management company (AMC) to order the appraisal. It DOES create valuation issues but that is not as a result of the lender. It creates issues because the AMC's have a tendancy to use inexperienced appraisers that are from out of the area. FHA appraisals are good for 4 months only (as of Oct 2009). Prior to Oct the appraisals were good for 6 months. HOWEVER, in a downward trending market (many areas of the country are experiencing loss of market value) the lender is going to want an accurate valuation as of the date of refinance.

2) FHA is a full documentation loan. You can not get financing without having filed the previous years taxes. Your extension would have been good until Oct, but after that you would have to show the filed tax return. This is SOP. Most of the loans today are full doc loans. The only way the extension would have worked is if you had been able to close prior to the expiration of the IRS extension in Oct.

It does sound like your loan officers could have been more knowledgeable or more communicative. Remember the lender did not make any money on this transaction either because they get paid when the loan funds. I am not defending this lender but what you describe as issues in your complaint were not as a result of this particular lender, but a result of the tightening underwriting requirements throughout the industry right now.

I worked for QL for 2 years. I left because my other business was growing and needed more attention. These people are absolutely wonderful. Let me address two major misunderstandings that are common amongst this thread.

1. The deposit: The $300-$500 deposit is collected up front to "seal the deal." At this point, the customer has agreed to either order an appraisal, lock in an interest rate, or agree to the terms of the loan that's being quoted. The customer is well informed, as we were trained, to make sure he or she advised that the deposit is refunded at the time of closing. Think about it, an appraisal costs $300. When a deposit is taken, the customer DOES NOT pay the appraiser (as other lenders require). Those funds are applied toward the appraisal and any processing fees at the time of closing. If circumstances such as a low appraisal, buyers remorse, or any other unknown factors surface, and the customer backs out, QL has covered themselves with that deposit.
 
2. There is a pending lawsuit against QL. However, a judgment has not been decided upon and they have not been proven guilty of not paying over time. Many companies have pending lawsuits for many reasons because the law allows anyone to sue anyone at any time for any reason. When I took the job, I was informed of the hours and responsibilities before I took the position. NO QL Banker is promised an hourly wage, neither is the salary based on a 40 hour work week. Having a company with 50 employees, I now can sort-of comprehend how disgruntled former employees will twist the truth and join a class action law suit. By the way, I made over $150,000 in that two year period with commission and salary and I thank them every day for the many trainings and skills they equipped us with, many of which I implemented in my business. Honestly, they treat their employees like gold, and thats why they were voted the best place to work several years in a row. In the worst economy, Detroit, QL was pumping out so many jobs and taking great care of their staff.
 
Please take these complaints with a grain of salt. The mortgage business is a very thankless world. They provide the means to purchase or refinance the home of your dreams or your shack, depending on how you look at it and yet we punish them with complaints. In 2006, QL closed over $2 Billion worth of loans and saved people millions of dollars in the process. Since they started over 20 years ago, they've closed hundreds of thousands of loans and there are 200+ silly complaints on here. It's not even worth their time to put someone on here answering questions and complaints, yet they do to maintain a strong reputation. Folks, do not believe everything you read. Men lie, women lie, but numbers don't.
 
Before you write complaint, I advise you to speak to RVP and explain your situation. More than likely there is a satisfying solution to your issue. How do I know? Now a customer of mine, the Vice President of QL personally contacted one of my upset customers (when I worked there of course) and came up with a solution for him. Even though the customer didn't close, we we're still able to refund his deposit and we ate all the fees just to make him happy. As a former employee, I urge anyone who has had a good experience either working there or a customer to say something positive. Please no criticizing, condemning or complaining, just pure compliments.
 
Thanks for reading my thoughts on QL. Hope it helped you.

Hi, thanks for posting. I'm sorry about your experience and I'd really like to look into it with you. Can you contact me directly? Kelly@QuickenLoans.com

Couple things:

I'm not sure why you were told an appraisal from May could be used. FHA appraisals are only good for 4 months. I understand you heard in the news that home prices have gone up, but that is a very generalized statement, probably intended for the country as a whole. Home values vary by city, even down to your street. That's why appraisals are only good for a short amount of time - as new comparable homes in your area are sold, your home value is adjusted accordingly. It's completely possible that there have been a few foreclosures in your area over the last year and that has brought your home value down.

Thats being said, I'd like to note that we have absolutely no control over what your house appraises for. That's why we hire 3rd party, unbiased appraisers. Lending on a home is a risk and just like you, we have to make sure that risk is justified. The appraisal does that.

Also, if your home value came in too low, we would deny your loan based on that. In a denial situation, we would refund any money not spent on your behalf. So, if you gave us $500 as a deposit and we spent $300 on your appraisal, you would get $200 back. We don't keep anything if a loan is denied. We have no reason to undervalue homes - we gain nothing by working with a client we cannot help. For more information on our deposit, please visit our site: https://www.quickenloans.com/about/quicken-loans-deposit

Again, please contact me so I can look into your specific loan further. I'm happy to help.

Thanks,

Kelly

Quicken Loans

Kelly@QuickenLoans.com