Rick McGill's Toyota ripoff Dishonest customer service borderlines on blackmail Alcoa Tennessee
This is a letter that we sent to Toyota US headquarters and to Rick McGill's Toyota. We got a reply a couple of weeks later from the US headquarters and they said that since the dealer is independant, they cannot do anything about it.
October 13, 2002
Customer Relations:
On September 16th 2002 we signed papers for a 2002 Toyota Echo at Rick McGill's Airport Toyota in Alcoa, TN. The sticker price was $13,612. We signed the paper so the finance officer Pat Davis would have the authorization to check our credit report. She said that she would start running the application through Toyota Credit at 18 percent first, but felt confident and reassured us that she would get us a better rate. That is why we signed the papers originally. Pat Davis assured us that we would get financed even though we had filed for bankruptcy in the past. She told us to drive our new car home.
The next day (which was Tuesday) we called and talked to Charles Crockett, the sales person that sold us the car (concerned that the payment and interest was going to be too high to afford) and asked him to have our trade parked in the front so that we could swap cars. When we arrived at the lot later that evening, the new car sales manager came to talk to us and asked us to allow Pat Davis to have until the end of the week and he assured us again that we would be satisfied with the end results and if we weren't we could bring the car back and get our trade. I didn't want to drive the new car all week without knowing how high the interest rate was going to be, but we followed the advice of the sales manager.
We were unsure of the results so we did some work on our own and called my sister-in law the next day. She works at Daytona Toyota in Florida. She spoke with Michael Marcolini, in the finance department to see what he could do to help. After only a few hours, Mr. Marcolini called us back and said that we can be financed at 12.75 percent at Southeast Toyota Finance. This was on Wednesday.
We waited until the following Monday and still didn't hear from Pat Davis at Rick McGill's Toyota. We called her and was told that she got us financed at 15 percent through Triad Finance last Thursday. She knew we were waiting and never called to let us know. My sister-in law's boss called Rick McGill's Toyota and asked them if they would drop the price $500.00 off the sticker price and said that they would buy it and sell it to us financed through Southeast Toyota Finance, but nobody at Rick McGill's got back with him. Rick McGill's would not lower the price to help us with the deal even though the 2003 models were due to come out next month.
We went back down that night to Rick McGill's and we brought our oldest son Michael so he could help us explain what we had done on our own about the financing. We walked into Pat Davis's office and told her about the opportunity we had through Southeast Toyota at 12.75 percent interest. She said that she got us financed at 15 percent through Triad Finance and that she would not and could not go through Southeast Toyota. We told Ms Davis that Daytona Toyota said that they would deliver the car to us as well as offer us a better interest rate.
Pat Davis immediately started to act very rude and was not very interested in letting us out of her deal to go through another dealer for a better rate. The sales manager told us that she worked very hard trying to get us financed. Pat told us with a very rude attitude "either you sign the papers at 15 percent or else i'll run them through at the 18 percent that you already signed". This sounded like a threat to me. My son Michael told her that she was very rude and she said "YOU HAVEN'T SEEN RUDE YET". Michael asked the sales manager that was in the same room if he let all of his sales people act so rude with their customer's and he just laughed. I have never been so disrespected in my entire life. They treat you so very nice while you are looking for a car, but as soon as you sign the papers they act very cold and won't try to help you any further. The sales manager had an inside joke with Pat Davis. He said if they think that 15 percent is bad then they would really hate the 25 percent interest rate that they had signed a few weeks back and laughed. Michael asked the sales manager if he would consider buying at car at 15 percent or even 12.75 percent at that matter and he said "No, I have a credit score of 844 and I don't have to pay high interest". So the poor people with bad credit have to pay higher payments and the people that have money to make the payment get a lower one. This has always been unfair.
Anyway, we didn't want to have the contract submitted at 18 percent and we didn't know if it was legal for Ms. Davis to run it through at 18 percent. We didn't know what the legality of the situation that we were in and could not afford the risk of not knowing. Michael didn't know either and suggested that we wait one more day and contact Daytona Toyota and our lawyer to find out. The sales manager said no, you cannot have another day. Pat Davis said "it's a done deal" sign the 15 percent or it's going through at 18 percent. Pat Davis gave the papers to me and wanted me to sign them. Michael took the papers from me to look them over first and Pat Davis jerked them out of his hands and said "is your name on the papers?". Both the sales manager and Pat told them that Michael couldn't look at the contract. Michael got so mad at her rudeness and said "I can't believe this d**n mess, she is so rude and she shouldn't be dealing with the public." He didn't say d**n you or say it directed toward anyone, it was out of anger toward the situation. Just as Michael said it, the sales manager put his hands on Michael to make him leave and my wife started crying and told my son to just forget it since they had us over a barrel. I told them that I wanted Michael to look over them and handed the papers to Michael.
Somewhere during our discussions in Pat Davis' office, we said that we have 3 days to bring the car back anyway if we change our mind or are not satisfied, but they made us keep it over the weekend so that we would not be able to return it. Both the sales manager and Pat denied that we had 3 days to return it. Pat said once it is driven off the lot that it cannot be returned. She was very adamant about that.
We wanted to just leave the car there, but we didn't know how to get our car back that we were trading in or where it was even parked and we didn't know if we would be sued. We really needed legal advice before we signed, but we didn't have another day to find out.
We have never had anyone act so rude to us or lie to our face. The next week we got papers in the mail from Toyota Credit denying us credit at 18 percent. This is the whole reason we signed at 15 percent, because we were threatened with 18 percent. It wasn't even approved at 18 percent. This seems like some form of blackmail. We were harassed and extremely violated. Toyota makes great cars. My trade in was a Camry. It shouldn't take rudeness, lies and threats to sell their cars.
We contacted the Mid Atlantic Division, Customer Relations to tell them what we went through. They assured us that we would be contacted by someone we could talk to about this situation. Our case number is 200209260499. After over a week later Anthony Spinelli from Rick McGill's Toyota called and talked to us. After we told him how rude Pat Davis was and the lies that we were told, all he did was apologize and tell us that we shouldn't have signed any papers and we should try to refinance it ourselves. In other words, he was no help. We are paying around $1,300 more for the car with interest than we should be having to pay. We aren't satisfied with the payment either. Just because we took bankruptcy doesn't mean that we are not good people. We deserve to not be lied to and treated with respect.
We would gladly give this car back and deal with a car dealer that has respect for it's customers. Unless, Rick McGill's could lower the price and give us the difference between the 15 and 12.75 percent that was offered to us through Southeast Toyota Finance. After all, we paid full sticker price and there was no negotiation on the price at all. The next week we called Southeast Toyota Finance. We tried to get them to refinance the car and they said that they were unable to refinance due to it is now considered a used car.
We have contacted the Better Business Bureau and filled out our survey from Toyota. Also, we are going to submit this to www.ripoffreport.com. We haven't done that as of yet. We want to get a reply from this letter first. I hope to hear from you within 2 weeks of receiving this letter. If I do not hear from you I will be sending out additional copies of this letter to The Federal Trade Commission and the Tennessee Attorney General.
Michael
Alcoa, Tennessee
Click here to read other Rip Off Reports on Toyota Dealers and Products
3 Updates & Rebuttals
Dennis
Knoxville,Tennessee,
U.S.A.
It's Not Unfair, It's Business
#4Consumer Comment
Tue, March 23, 2004
I read this report because I was thinking about doing business with Rick McGill's. I'll definitely think twice now. But the reason for this letter is to put some perspective on what you said in your letter, specifically, "So the poor people with bad credit have to pay higher payments and the people that have money to make the payment get a lower one. This has always been unfair."
The fact is, poor people can't afford to make payments, period. If you have a payment on anything other than a house, it means you couldn't afford it in the first place. If you have cash, no one cares what your credit score is. If you don't have the cash - don't buy it. There are PLENTY of reliable used cars out there (like your Camry for instance). Convincing yourself that you NEED a new car is nothing but effective marketing on the part of the dealerships. Did you know that a typical new car will lose 60% of it's value in the first 4 years? The car will ALWAYS be worth less than what you owe on it.
The fact that you filed bankruptcy means you are a high risk. Just like if you have high cholesterol or high blood pressure and need health insurance. You can't blame a finance company for noticing this or taking it into account before doing business with you. It's not "unfair", it's business.
I have a secret - rich people don't have payments, and they got rich because they didn't have payments. They drive around in slightly used cars, paid for with cash. If you pay yourself the car payment, you could have enough money in a very short time to buy a great USED car for cash. In the meantime, continue to pay yourself that car payment. Within another short time, you could sell the used car, combine it with your savings and pay cash for an even nicer USED car. Continue to do this and you can be driving a one or two year old car, completely paid for.
Debt is bad. Keep telling yourself this. Sell your Echo (yes, it's now worth several thousand dollars less than what you owe on it), borrow the difference from your Credit Union or bank plus an additional $2000 dollars or so, and buy a very cheap used car. This will reduce your overall debt substantially. Then focus all your energy on paying off the bank as quickly as possible - then save like crazy so that in 24 or 36 months, you can pay cash for your next USED car. This is how rich people do it, this is how you should do it.
On a side note, I visited Rick McGill's and was not impressed. I had cash in my pocket and was looking for a 1 year old Toyota. Their price was too high, so I walked off, got into my 13 year old Honda Civic (paid for), and drove away.
Cash is King.
Brandon
Mesa,Arizona,
You got screwed...
#4Consumer Comment
Fri, November 22, 2002
First off I just want to say that I'm not sticking up for this dealership, or any dealership for that matter, but you have to look at things from a business point of view.
When you signed the papers at 18% you should have thought "what if this IS the best I can get, can I afford this?" It seems as if you did not think about that possibility, so you wanted to cancel the deal when you realized that this may not be affordable to you. If car dealerships let everyone who had buyers remorse cancel the deals, well, alot of dealerships would probably go out of business. That is how they operate, they want you to fall in love with the vehicle and make irrational decisions based on that psychological feeling that you NEED that new car, they don't want you to have time to think about it, get back to reality and regain your cognitave thinking skills.
You said that your sister worked for a Toyota dealership in Florida. Now, this may seem illogical, but wouldn't it have been better for you to go to Florida and purchase your new vehicle? In all reality that's not a far drive from Tennessee, maybe a day at the most, and you would have had family to help get you the best possible deal. (Although sometimes even family will screw you to make a buck!) When you found out that your sister could have gotten you a better finance deal, did you realy think that the dealership you origionally went to was going to say: "Great, you found a better financing rate at our COMPETITOR, here's your trade back and we'll cancel the deal!"? Once again, I go back to the fact that if dealerships did this alot of them would go out of business.
Now, as far as the interest rate they charged you. If this is the first vehicle you have purchased since your bankruptcy was discharged, I would say that even 18% isn't that bad. It is high, but you are basically viewed as a first time buyer, and you are therefore labeled "high risk." Most high risk auto loans average 24-26%! As far as pushing the deal through at 18%, it is legal! As a matter of fact, they probably, no wait, I'm positive they got you financed lower than 15%. They probably got the same 12.75%, or even lower, that your sisters dealership could have gotten you. The dealerships have the legal, although unethical but very profitable right to charge you up to 4% over the interest rate that you actually qualify for. So, if you were charged 15%, it's very likely that you qualified for 11%. That means that the extra 4% went straight into the dealers pocket; it's called "back-end."
I'm sorry you got "bent over", but, nest time you'll get a better rate as long as you pay on-time with this loan. After about 18 months of good payments, assuming you aren't burried in your car (owe more than it's worth) you should be able to re-finance it at a competitive rate, although it will then be a used car and rates for used cars are typically higher than those for new cars.
The Great Thorn
Bayville,New York,
To the above VICTIM
#4Consumer Suggestion
Fri, November 22, 2002
First Never be too fast too believe everything a F&I guy/gal tells you. What they like to do is to get you to sign all of their documents and tell you to go home and that they will work on getting you the best loan that they can, Doing this takes you OFF of THE CAR BUYING MARKET why they try to do the following.
First they will get you to sign a car buying contract that shows you ONLY the numbers that they PUMPED into your head, They will not have on the car buying contract the name of ANY BANK because they want you to agree to a high interest rate.
Once you agree to all of their documentation they look for a bank that will give them a low interest rate, YES YOU GUEST IT, the bank will send the dealer a check for the difference.
You agree to a high interest rate by signing their contract, car dealer finds a bank that will approve you at a low interest rate, Car dealer keeps the difference.
The only way they can find a bank that will lend you the money is by the car dealer doing what is called "FIRING a SHOTGUN you your credit report. If a car dealership does this to your credit, IT lowers the value of your credit.
Most Car dealers will NEVER tell you what they do after you go home.
Please remember that no car dealer will ever hire a dummy to place in their F&I office. They prefer a LOT SHARK that has the ability to RIP YOU A NEW A hole.
The main goal of most car dealers is to keep you on their lot untill you "POP or DROP"
Never forget that car makers don't care as to how you are treated. If they did, we here at The Rip Off Report would not have so many Rip Off Reports on car dealers.