Complaint Review: Robert Allen Koontz

Well, I just walked down memory lane with this report, and thought I should update it.

As for Naomi she is almost 4 years old now! She's growing up so fast, and she's still my beautiful Koala bear.

My older two children are doing well also. My son lives with his father, (my ex husband) as he felt the need to be around his father more, and through a long long long divorce, and mishaps, and things of which should have been avoided, we have all landed at a decent place in our lives.

My oldest girl, and Naomi live with me, and my boy lives with his father. My son comes to my house everyday after school, and the kids all see eachother just about everyday of their lives.

They all see their fathers every other weekend, and whenever Rob, or ex hubby want to take them to dinner, or to family functions then they go with them. It's been interesting. I made a lot of mistakes in my lifetime, but I also learned from them, and that's what counts the most.

Over all I'm sure the children can succeed in becoming the best adults they can be, and above all I think the children are happier now than I've seen them in years. As is everyone involved with this situation from the past.

I moved to Georgia, for awhile, (lost my mind, for awhile) but last year in May I moved back to Oregon. Since that time, things have been going well. We are doing well.

I have entered into a good relationship, as has Rob, and ex hubby. My two oldest children just met their new baby sister from their dad, and his g/f, and they are excited to have another sister.

Naomi just went to the zoo with her dad yesterday, and she had a ton of fun talking about monkey's and the animals she saw there with him. It was fun to hear her talk about them with such excitement.

Everything seems to be nothing less than what it should be, and we are all happy. The children went through a lot during that whole ordeal, although I did try to keep them away from the legal mumbo jumbo of it all, and just let them enjoy their childhood.

Right now, everything is very well. Life is life, and I'm genuinely appreciative that we all landed on solid ground.

I've never proclaimed perfection. We all make mistakes, sometimes big ones. All in all, I'm grateful for my children, and my life.

This was a great outlet and I'm grateful for the internet, although yes I'm sure it (has) and will bite me in the butt one day to come... all the best to everyone who posted.. It was great to get the support from perfect strangers, it makes the world seem not so big after all.

Laura, took me hours to read all the posts, but here i am. back to July 11, 2008. i must say tho, support those who support you. emotionally physically and financially. i read only one mans' name in all your posts, minus all but 2 posts that men sent in. and the name was Rob. never once did i see your husband's name, i did see Naomi's name in every post so it couldn't be you trying to keep your family's anonimitity. i have a feeling that Rob's name was mentioned as much in the home as much as here. being said was not to give Rob a big head tho. men don't like name dropping of other men's name in the home they are supporting, they don't like to be reminded of "mishaps". of theirs or other men's "mishaps". i hope your new relationship will last much longer and that Naomi is well and your other children. on a personal note, keep legal matters on a lower level than personal. your family needs more of a warm loving nurturing response than lawyers mumbo jumbo. if nothing else Naomi deserved that child support for her future, to make a solid start in life once she goes on her own. good luck Laura. and good luck Rob

Forget the past, forget the past, get over it, move on... I've heard that from more people than I care to count. As far as Naomi is concerned she is well. I moved to Georgia with her and my oldest daughter, with my current boyfriend. So far, so good.

Father's should be more involved with their children as far as I'm concerned. It's easy to say get over it when the past wouldn't have been the past had the choices not have been made that were. When you are to blame for the past, that is when I seem to hear.. get over it.

I'm over it as much as I ever will be, but I will tell you I've heard the same crap now from my ex husband (who isn't my "ex" yet actually.. but that's another story in itself; yes another "man" that should be on this report all his own for the "ripoff" he has and is doing to me.. financially.. but again another time, another story.)

As for Rob and myself, Rob runs to my mother with everything, and since the split with my husband it's been a life of a living hell with nobody to turn to, including Rob, but I dont care anymore .. I have my girls, and eventually things will work out correctly. I don't believe I will always be put out, lost, and as my ex husband would say "worthless." I believe if anyone deserves to be secure in life, it is my children. So, onward I continue in this life of betrayal by one man after another, with the hopes that one day I will regain the strenghth I once had before men entered my life, for the sole purpose of screwing it up.

I would have been better off having never met any of these men; but I count my blessings because I'm still alive, and in all reality if I wouldn't have left, I would have been dead. (did you hide the shotgun again from your friends "ex" hubby of mine?) ya'll can go to hell... You'll get yours in the end.. Karma is a b**** and YOU will know it... Just look at my mother in law if you don't believe in Karma.. for those who know me. She lost everything, and will continue to lose because she stole someone else's husband so many years ago for money.. Money she no longer has... Was it worth it.. now looking back? That's what i'm hoping to avoid.. something I have to live down and worry about coming back in the form of Karma..

Backstabbing, name calling, throwing false laws at me, trying to keep my children at ANYTIME, is NOT how you get on my good side, and WILL continue to make me make choices to stay away from the "drama" of Lebanon, and ALL of you. I cannot stand any one of you.. I have the most respect for the woman who wrote me a letter telling me I was a w***e, and all I wanted was money.. if you can believe that! She is the one now a days that I respect.. for her actions .. minus the letter of course. Good luck with you and yours.. Rob- maybe you should think about moving out of your mom's garage, and be a man.. "Ex" hubby.. thanks for not honoring the contract you and I, and your mom signed and for tricking me into moving in there for the sole purpose of you backstabbing me to your friends to the point I almost lost my life just for your sole purpose of becoming a s**t while living with your mother.. WOW what a winner you have become.. I'm sure I'll hear some sh** about my new bf as ya'll seem to have it in for him.. but it should be interesting.. Have a nice life.. Oh yeah Rob thanks for putting Naomi on medical, however, I realize that is so you don't receive medical bills for her.. how about a phone call to her once in awhile, or maybe a gift box with items she could use, since your not paying child support. But by now, you can just walk away from her altogether huh? That presumption law has now come back into effect from my understanding.. so "Jefferson" tells me your leaving her life.. is that what your doing? Is that why no phone calls.. even on easter to say hi to her? How about the other one.. "hubby" your daughter is 15 where's her call.. I'm tired of watching her wait for the phone to ring because you tell her your going to call.. You two have become friends now I hear as well.. Now, I'm to blame.. loving THAT .. Bye..

for some reason i came back here to see what has transpired since my last post on here.. i still find it rather funny how quickly everyone is to go off of their own personal experiences to base their theories about this situation.. for one most of you only know one side of the story.. weather that be my side of hers... well in all reality what happened in the past is just that the past.. what is important is how things go from day one of me meeting my daughter until the day i finally pass away..

as for the past as most of you have said it was a roller coaster and well one can only ride the roller coaster so long before they get sick and have to get off of it. and in response to the person who said that one day my daughter would find this info and what not.. for that much i am sure one day she will come across this site and since the owner will not let any of us remove this crap, then i am sure this will all comeback to haunt both laura and i once again, i just hope that Naomi will not judge me on what was said happened in the past but by how my relationship is with her at the time of me writing this until the time she reads all of this.. and i only hope that she does not get too upset with either laura or myself over this whole thing..

and on a side note to the same person that mentioned about her someday finding this site.. if everyone would have not been so eager to hang me by my nuts so to speak and just left it all alone to resolve itself then this would not have been drawn out over all this time for the entire world to see.. the power of the internet is great at times but can also come back to bite you on the a*s at times too.. and as for anyone else that may have this thought in their heads.. no i'm not still stuck on laura, i have long since moved on in my heart, and my life.. sure i care about her because she is the mother of my child, but thats were it ends.. and on a side note i hope that anyone who reads this will refrain from further posting for all it will do is just drag this on even longer and thus making things worse in the long run..

I know how you feel. I have twins and their father does the same thing. The best thing to do in my opinion is to leave him alone because he'll get whats coming to him. Trust me Karma's a B****. Your child and you do not deserve to be treated that way and let me tell you something, thats how some men are. The best thing is to go your way and let karma be.

Laura,

I'm so glad to hear that things are going well for not only Naomi and Rob, but the other kids and ex as well. I know how rough things were for you guys for a bit, but kudo's to all of you for getting things worked out. Give them all (the kid's, not the guys lol) a big hug from a mom that thinks that you're all wonderful!

Claire, obviously you came into this at the end. Although things were rough, and ran from gamut to gamut for awhile, everyone finally got it together, and are making the utmost effort to make this work. Your post was derogatory and ignorant. How can you look down on parents that WORKED IT OUT, and now have happy children? Does it matter that the children may someday read this? The only thing that is going to matter to these children is that regardless of where mom and dad started out, things are good now. Unlike another posting in this forum, these parents are working together, and mom isn't vindictive.

Yes, there was a rough patch, yes, if you read the post, we told Laura when she was getting off track. However, she got back on track, throughout a VERY difficult situation, and made things work. Given the current state of our society, she deserves praise for her continuing efforts in making things right, as do both Rob and her ex husband. I've seen so many 30 and 40 something 'juveniles' that run away or deliberately make trouble, that this is a truly refreshing story. Throughout this whole thing, I've found myself drawn to Laura, feeling protective, as an older sister would feel towards a younger one, and I myself am offended that you felt it was necessary to critisize her the way that you did.

Laura, Rob, Naomi, and family.... May this season bring you the happiest of holidays, and may the very best day of this past year become the very worst of next year. I'll continue to think about you, and send blessings your way for a bright future!

Laura, I have spent 2 hours reading these posts in a haze of disbelief and horror. I cannot believe it is of Naomi's interest to continue a public dialogue about her father's family-never mind your own history. Children are savvy. In just a few years your 'soap opera' has become famous enough for her to find out all that you have written. Make no mistake, it is possible that some interested parties may have kept copies of this. Your initial enquiry was valid - but after that,all details should not have been made public. Why would you do this to your daughter? If you need help, go to a confidential professional source, or if you have to air all the details, at least keep identities confidential. I'm sure you are a loving mother; however, you excel at dramatics, impulsiveness and sadly, in my view, ignorance as to what is best for your daughter.

You've requested for me to update my report on another report so I thought I would.

Actually there is not much to update.. just that Naomi is getting bigger and bigger every day, (she's just about 19 months now) and is the smartest, happiest, most beautiful baby I've seen in my whole life. (well her and of course my other two children as well)

Rob is still around and spent Thanksgiving with us all. It was strange perhaps for some people (probably just me as I worry about everyone) as there is a mixture of family here.. but we all managed to have a few laughs and hugs along the way. (ex in laws, two fathers, mom and a house full of relatives, and kids)

My ex hubby is around often, just as Rob is, and we're all focusing on the kids and our jobs, and life.

Rob still pays child support- (and has recently paid the dna test cost back) Nothing is filed with the courts however, we have signed contracts with one another reguarding visitation and child support of which we both abide by.

Thanks for asking Lori I hope your family is well also.

All the best-

Naomi is getting so big.. She's 16 months old now. Rob and myself are working together still and visitation is still in effect. Rob still comes over to see his daughter, and so far although we tried once Naomi does not like leaving her home to go on visitation days. So at this time it is still supervised, but not really, we are just taking it at Naomi's pace. Rob has adjusted to being a parent, and has started doing parental things ie. bathing, feeding, holding, chasing her through the house, and playing ball with her.. and yes even changing a few diapers. Although now she is starting potty training so that will be over soon. Thank goodness huh Rob? lol.

Ok well I just wanted to let anyone who may be following this from time to time to know that things are going well. Naomi and her daddy are building a good relationship and I'm enjoying watching them grow together.

Life is way to short to fight about things, so I certainly hope that no matter what comes my way through this or "our" way through this we can always work together to make sure Naomi is not affected by ignorance, or anger by us stupid adults lol.

As for my other two children they are doing well. They have always had a father for them around and he hasn't gone anywhere even through our divorce. Everything is amicable, and I am very blessed and grateful my children have good parents to guide them along life's journies.

God Bless you all -

Laura

(Ps. Rob is paying child support, and makes and effort to catch up on past balances.) So far, nothing is filed in court.

Thank you for your reply. No Rob and I are not a couple, nor will we ever be again. The reasons are my own, that I wish to keep to myself but that is the way it will remain. Rob and myself have discussed this and we are building a friendship. I am going to stay on the course I have set out for myself this time, and I am not dating anyone. My plate is already full with work, school, and three children to raise.

Rob contacts me at the beginning of each week to ask for extra days of visitation. I look at my work schedule and tell him what extra days are available for him to be around Naomi, and he has shown up to each and every one scheduled by visitation, and scheduled extra by us at the beginning of each week.

It is nice that we are getting along, and can remain or start to build a friendship instead of a hatered towards one another these days.

Naomi is getting used to him being around and she gets sad when he leaves. She won't go to sleep until he leaves (we think she doesn't want to miss anything) but the second she can't see his car anymore she waves bye-bye and says da da, I give her a big hug and kiss and tell her everything will be ok baby girl, he'll be back again later, and then I tuck her into bed and she goes to sleep within 3 minutes.

Rob hasn't taken her out of the house as of yet, and I have discussed my feelings on the matter with him, and we are working together to make sure Naomi is ready for him to take her from the home before that happens. Peaceful resolve is what I was always in search of, and I have finally found it in this situation, and I am very grateful for that.

Yes I was young when I had my first second and third child. I was also young when my second child passed on, that is a hard thing to go through. I was also very young when I got married. Congratulations on being married 10 years Vanessa. I always thought I would be too, just didn't turn out that way.

As for my other two children, well at first there was some resentment built up with rob, but the more he's around the better they respond to him. My ex husband even carries on a conversation with rob during visitation if he is here at my house for his own children as well. (which he is daily) Yes, life is a little weird, and strange at times, but somehow, we are all getting along, and who could ask for more. This could be so much worse, and this is a sensitive situation to say the least, and I think all of us adults are handling it well for the children involved, and I am very grateful for that.

As for me, well, I'm still alone, (although I'm never alone, with three children to raise) still in the process of a divorce, and am enjoying my time with my children each and every day of their lives. I've never been more happy in my entire life. My children are adjusting well, and seem to be very happy with minimal complaints. Both rob and my ex husband come around to see their children quite often. We all still go to the lake together, and play outside with the kids together after work most days. We all just went scuba diving together, and my oldest daughter starts her scuba lessons next month. She is very excited about that, as are we. My son needs extra tlc because he is the middle child at that awkward stage of to old for some things, not old enough for others. His birthday is days away and we are preparing a big blow out for him for his birthday. I think he'll have a blast!

All the best to you and yours,

Laura,
I read your whole story today. I must say that you were and I believe still are on a rollercoaster. After all has been said and done, I feel that you want Rob and you to raise Naomi as a couple. The last post I think says it all:

I just had a couple hour conversation with Rob, and we know where we stand. We are getting along, and things are amicable and peaceful at this time, and I see no reason for it to change in the future. I think God was watching out for us all in this situation, and the future looks promising.

I hope everything works out for you and your family. All 3 children, not just Naomi.

I also wanted to let you know that My husband has been with me since 'our' youngest daughter was 3 weeks old. He has never once treated them like stepchildren, but like his very own. We have now been married for 10 years and our oldest daughter is 16 and youngest daughter is 13. We have been through the loss of our son (his only biological child) and have had our ups and downs, but we are together. I did read that you have had a hard life and were very young when you had your oldest daughter. Also I agree that you were young when you got married and maybe you do need some time to be 'on your own'.

Again, I just want to wish you well in your new life, with your children and whomever else you choose to bring into it. I also want to say that I think that you have become a fine young lady with everything that you have been through.


I am also glad to hear that Rob has taken an active roll in Naomi's life.


Take care,

Vanessa

Rob met his daughter on July 11, 2006. Just as I suspected it took him all of 2 minutes to fall in love with her for life.

For his privacy, and ours I will not be posting on here anymore.

Thank you Rob for being the father I always knew you would be.

This is the end of my posting on here. If anyone replies I will get it, and I will read it.. Thank you for the advice in advance.. and also thank you to everyone who helped me through the previous months with your advice.

It appears at this point that things will be good for Naomi. Rob is going to play an active role in her life, and for that I am grateful more than he will ever know. He is going above and beyond visitation days, and he wants to be around her as much as possible.

I just had a couple hour conversation with Rob, and we know where we stand. We are getting along, and things are amicable and peaceful at this time, and I see no reason for it to change in the future. I think God was watching out for us all in this situation, and the future looks promising.

All the best to you and yours -

My lawyer sent me his contact information today.. (which is weird because it's sunday) I just sent him an email. Apparently, that old email is what.. somebody else's? I dont know anymore.. It doesn't matter.

I now have his phone number and his email, and I will be in contact with Rob.. If he comes and sees his baby, I will post it here.. After that, I think the postings will be complete.

No advice ladies and gentelmen? I sure could use an outside oppinion right about now.

We've come a long way from when I first started this thread.. I wonder if this is good or bad.

Thanks for listening-

Okay folks here we have it.. He comes on here acting all sweet like it's all the lawyers fault, and then he yet again blocks his email..

I sent him an email yesterday because my attorney told me to talk to him about visitation on July 14th. Well, that one went through just fine.. Then I send him one today thinking well he seems to want to meet Naomi, so I will send him my phone number as he proclaims to not have it anymore. Then he will probably come see her right? WRONG. Blocked again..

I dont know what he's doing except playing mind games with me and I'm pretty sick of it.

What do you want Rob.. Do you or dont you want to come over for visitation days? Do you or don't you want a relationship with your daughter?

SHE'S RIGHT HERE! Knock off this crap and grow up. What are you trying to accomplish? Are you trying to continually hurt us or what? What in the world is going on? Glad I didn't call your house, you'd probably call the police saying I'm "harrassing" you.

Jimminie Christmas have you lost your mind completely? I'm starting to question your sanity.

Well it's been 9 hours since I last put something on here, and it's still not here.. sooo instead of repeating myself (just in case it decides to post) I will move forward.

Rob - I would like for you to meet your daughter asap. I really couldn't care less what a court has to say about you knowing your daughter, so waiting for everything to go through the court to me is silly. Well, you know that is exactly what I have been trying to get accomplished for what over a year now? I think enough is enough. You know where I live .. Stop by. If I happen to not be home.. leave your number on my door, and I'll call you and we can set up a time for you to meet Naomi.

As usual, although you may not believe it, the "ball is in your court" it is up to you to have a relationship with Naomi. You again/still know where she is. I'm not going to deal with this again until I hear from you. It's up to you what you do.

All the best-

Hey wait one minute.. that is not how this went down at all. I have read your reply three times now and I'm going to say how it went down, because you are not telling the truth or your lawyer is not telling you the truth.

Ok let's start at 7 months pregnant.. What happened? I called you this was the time when I had reconciled with my then husband and you were on a visiation schedule of every weekend to be a part of the pregnancy and the baby's life upon birth. You said if i have to pay for her I will get custody.. I said good luck and hung up. To make it short, and to the point.

Then we have birth, where you did not show up.

Then we have me giving you a text saying the baby was not yours. Then we have 7 months of nothing. I think I text you a few times in that seven months asking you to come see your daughter... oh yes this is where your fiance told me I was a bi polar freak cursed at me and told me not to contact her. That's right.

Then you both kept saying "I thought the baby wasn't his" I thought the baby wasn't mine... blah blah.. I said I have a visitation packet filled out if he would like to see his baby. I was told "everything will have to go through court from here on out"

During this time I think this was in October of 2005, I told you I would pay for half of a dna test since you guys were determined to say the baby was not yours, and you refused to see her. I figured by getting a dna test done, it would ease your mind and you would be the "daddy" you said you wanted to be.

Nope - changed all avenues of contact I had for you instead.

I THEN went down to support enforcement and filed for child support. (on my husband's request- but it's not his fault) That little drama is mentioned above. What a joke they are.

Anyways, then they closed it because you got yourself a lawyer, and they backed off.

Now this is the part that you are not being truthful. Before I could even get a lawyer I had to get a dna test on my husband to prevent you from using the presumption law. I had one "consultation" ONLY with that ex attorney and was told he cannot take my case until a dna test was done on my husband. I immediately got a dna test done on my husband. I mailed YOUR MOM the original copy of that very dna test back in Feb of this year.

Then I again heard .... the usual .. nothing.. SOOOO I went back to that lawyer and hired him. He then sent you a letter (which all of this took about a week and a half or two weeks) The very next thing it was only a couple days later.. boom your lawyer slaps my lawyer with the presumption law. Indicating it doesn't matter if the dna test came back that Naomi was not from my husband our "marriage makes it so"

Well we fought that for a while.. as I was told a "pissing contest between lawyers" in the meantime my husband freaked out because he thought he was going to be held responsible for Naomi even if we divorced.. (which we were on the brink of even then, so he knew it was coming, and didn't want that to land on him) Understandable? I think so.

Then we tried and tried to get you to take a dna test but your lawyer kept saying your refusing to take one. ON and on this went until finally I said screw it take him to court and let a judge tell him to take a dna test.. So my lawyer said ok.. sent a letter saying we're filing this in court on such and such day.. One day prior to that deadline.. you agreed to take the test from my understanding, but you were not going to pay for it.. I had to. Sooo I added yet more money to the trust account and paid for YOUR dna test. I called the dna testing center and found out you had not set up an appointment even after I paid for it. Then I called a few days later and found out you had an appointment that friday.. This was about 2 weeks after I had paid for it. You actually showed up and took it (shock to us all) and we didn't get the results until May 2. Well, first I was told April, 30 or something but anyways.. it ended up being May 2. I called the dna place again to ask them myself when I would be receiving the results.. and requested for a faxed copy to be sent to both attorney's, followed by the original mail copy. Which was done to my understanding.

I also in the meantime heard rob stated something like we'll see what mrs. wants to do after the dna test is completed. Well, once the dna test was completed, I told my lawyer to back off for a week, to give you time to contact me to meet your daughter, of which you did not do. That may have been one of the times I tried to contact you via email, but was unsuccessful.

Then I tried to come to terms within myself that you were a low life b*****d that had no reguards for his child whatsoever and it didnt seem to matter that you had the proof you were so hell bent on having but yet refused to take for so long. You simply did not care.. well that's what it looked like on our end.

so I told my lawyer to take it to court. Do what you have to do I said.. within reason.. let me edit everything before it's sent, but take him to court. So, he sent a letter to your attorney of which I did edit, and was in agreement with. (unless there is one I am unaware of to this day) At that time, there was a bunch of things that were being procrastinated and it appeared to me he was stalling for the sole purpose of gaining money from his client.... well naturally I do care how much money I am spending on an attorney, and then I had a conversation with my attorney about the amounts I had given him, which he then lied about.. and I fired him the very next day. I do not appreciate liars who steal money from me, and get very little accomplished.

I had another attorney the very next day.. due to already looking for about a week prior to firing my old attorney.

I did speak with your attorney and I did agree to things. I also agreed to let go of things.. medical 50/50 split, and past due child support, as you well know. My words to your lawyer was I really couldn't care less about the money, I just need one question answered.. Does Rob want any sort of a relationship with his daughter, or not? That is all I need to know.. He stopped me and told me how you do want a relationship with your daughter.. and from that moment on we've been discussing parenting plans ONLY. Why it's taking so long to figure out how to get you to meet and have a relationship with your daughter is beyond me. But that's the way it is.

I think that brings my side out a little better.. and maybe it's just the lawyers in the way or not.. at this point I really dont know. Here's what I do know.. you still have not met Naomi. I still am willing and ready for you to meet her. You still have not attempted to contact me.. (funny you seem to know how to reach me when you dont want me to contact you anymore)

Here's what I do know.. I think if we both try really hard, we can get along well enough for Naomi and you to build a good solid life long relationship, as it should be, and to be honest.. I could use the help especially right now.

Thank you rob, for not ignoring me and your daughter anymore.. I can and will put the past behind us, and maybe we can both move forward, and this will all be a thing of the past.

You have missed so much .. but it is not to late, and you can be around everyday if you want to.. she is your daughter, and she is my daughter, we created her ... in love, and she is adorable in every meaning of the word.

All the best for Naomi's future...

Ok I'm sorry but I have a few more things to say. (as usual)

1. upon birth, i was sent a text message stating that she was infact not mine, she looked just like laura, and a few other things of which i really dont feel like continually bringing them up.. so i won't.

Reply: This was not done UPON BIRTH - you did not show up at the hospital. I texted you and told you that I was going into the hospital and your girlfriend replied from my understanding of "let us know how it goes" You did not call, you did not inquire anything AFTER she was born, and I was very very angry at you for that. I had just went through hell and trust me THAT WAS HELL and delivered OUR baby, and you didn't have the courtesy to at least ask if I or the baby made it through? Did you care if we were even alive? Yes you did receive a text about 2 weeks later that said she looks just like her mama, and bob was right. ( yes I said that to hurt you, and I said that in anger) If the tables had been reversed I'll just bet you would have done the same thing. I have since then, apologized for that action, and will again apologize right now.. I am sorry for saying hurtful things to you, it was uncalled for, and I should have shown better restraint.

R: 1. you yahoo'd me asking if i would be willing to pay for half of the dna test, of which i told you i would get back to you on that because i had to discuss it with my girlfriend/fiance, but since i was october and i was working two jobs at the time(atleast for the month of october) i obviously took too long to get back to you, for that i am sorry.. and not because of were we are now.. but because of the amount of time that has passed that i have missed out on..

Reply: I already explained most of this misunderstanding of yahoo bs in my first reply. As for the me asking you to pay for half of the test I actually told you I would pay for half, as the full amount was your responsability, but I did not want to be a financial burden to you, and was willing to pay for half. Your "two job" thing is nice sentiment, but come on.. your not seriously going to say the haunted house is job #2? And since you have so many jobs, why is it that you cannot seem to afford to pay me the $455.00 back in full at once, but have to go on a payment plan for the dna test I DID PAY IN FULL FOR? And while we're on it, why do you need flexible visitation hours during October again??? for this "second job" haunted house thing yes? All I have to say to that is .. get your priorities straight. I think our daughter is more important then some haunted house. But I am flexible when it comes to your schedule, as it would appear most men do not have to be daddy's if they dont want to.

R: have i come to terms with having a child? yes i have even though it has taken me far to long to do so.. do i look forward to starting a relationship with my child? hell yeah i do.. (much like i told you way back before she was born, laura, if she was mine i would not do like my biological father had done to me.. i would be in the childs life)

Reply: Then where the hell are you? Your daughter is a block away from you.. for how long now? She is 14 months old and already walking, and starting to talk.

R: i no longer have your phone number but i can be reached at my mothers house anytime after 5pm usually unless i get detained at work then it is more like 5:30 or 6pm

Reply: are you out of your mind! How would you feel if I started ignoring you right now? Think about it.


R:(if that happens to be on a visitation day i will make sure to contact you as soon as i know of work schedule change)

Reply: already saying your going to be late, or a no show huh? So far so good.

Sorry Rob, you can know your daughter all you'd like to. As a matter of fact I encourage it. I am going to do my best to not become a problem, but yes I do have a "hate thing" for you, and probably will for a very long time. Although I'm working very hard on it. If you would not bring up the past that may help.

Do you want to know what it looks like to me? It looks like you came on here and replied now, because you are "down on your luck, and lonely again" JUST LIKE I SAID way way way back that I thought you would do.

I'm sorry you are no longer with your fiance, I'm sure if you were you would still be ignoring me, and treating me like the.... what was it you guys were calling me again.. "bi-polar freak" "crazy" was it?

I will leave my feelings, and opinions of you at the door when it comes to you knowing Naomi, but don't even think I am available to take advantage of again. I did learn a few things along the way as well.

Apparently I did not retreat from my pain, and anger as much as I had thought previous to Rob's reply. I think I will continue to work on forgiveness.. and remember that all things happen for a reason, and understand this very thing, rob wanting to know his daughter is exactly what I was in search of this whole time.

Thank you Rob, for coming to terms with the fact that we have a daughter together.. I am doing my best here, you caught me at a bad time.. sorry.. My reply will be better later.

you know good and well I'm going to reply because you know me too.

First off- I am sorry to hear about your father/grandfather. I understood when I was with you he was going downhill health wise, and I'm sorry to hear he is in a nursing home.

As for October 2005, and not getting back to me. My email has not changed so taking to long to get back to me, should not have been an issue. It was not a yahoo thing, I sent that to you via email, and you also replied via email, then you changed your email. I took that as a reply in itself, and went to the support enforcement (not child services) office. At anytime you could have sent me an email to let me understand your side of things rather than ignore the hell out of me, and drop a letter in my ex husband's store door after hours (when we lived not a block away- including your daughter) to tell me that if I were to contact you again you would call the police. You felt (in my opinion) that I was "stalking" and "harrassing" you. Well I didn't want you to flatter yourself, nor did I think it was any good to try and raise my children having to go to court over harrassment charges, so I stopped trying.. MOSTLY.. (except an occassional email only to have them not go through and then a month or so later I sent one and it went through, and then the next one would not go through. To me this was a mind game, as nothing I EVER sent to ANYONE ever got a reply. except one from your mom calling me a w***e thanks.) Because yes, I was dealing with a new born baby at home, going to doctor's appointments, learning how to walk again, being up every 2 hours to feed (on crutches I might add) and that was hardly the beginning of my life at that time.

You as usual talk only about the things YOU went through and seem to always forget the other person, and their feelings.

So leaving the past in the past, and looking forward I would like to say a few things to you. (as this is STILL the only way I have to contact you.. No I will NOT call your mother. Have her show you the nasty letter she wrote to me and then you'll know why.) That woman hates me. I wrote two or three letters and sent them to her/you at HER address because NO I did not have an address for you. The only physical address I had for you, I showed up to, with your daughter so you could meet her, but you were not home so I left a note, in return I received a note to stay away from you and your gf/fiance) It was an apartment complex, and I assumed as I did not see mailboxes you had a PO box (the one you "gave" to me that didn't work- return to sender is what I received when I did send one to that PO box)

Ok I guess I should address some past issues first - so here we go. The ONLY reason you received one and only one "non-related to baby" texts is because I thought maybe I could appeal to your "male side" and at least get you to talk to me about something which in turn would lead me to maybe have SOME sort of communication lines open with you. Again, you continued to ignore me. It didn't matter if I texted you and told you the sky was falling you would not have replied to me, so that doesn't even matter.

As for me telling you that the baby was not yours, you know d**n good and well why I said that. You threatened me rob. THREE TIMES I've been threatened by you or a member of your family or friends. Hell one of them is on this very site. You guys keep threatening me about taking custody of Naomi. What the hell do you think that does to a MOTHER? Not just a mother, but a mother who has already lost one baby in the middle of a custody battle when she was 9 months old. You know the story, and you used my weakness against me and made me run away for as long as I could.

My ex husband is the main reason why I did the legal (lawyer) things I did. Although I dont like you putting your actions on your ex so I will not do that about mine.

My "long time marriage" ending was not your fault. My marriage ended because it needed to end. (I am still dealing with this aspect of my life that I won't go into here)

There is absolutely nothing stopping you from seeing your daughter. You don't need to wait for a court to tell you you can come see her. You dont have my phone number anymore? It is the same one you gave to me, and the same phone but ok.. call the store, I still work there for now pt. (or he will give you my number)

My lawyer told me to contact you today, so after my laughing fit as that was one of the funniest things I've heard all year, I went ahead and tried to email your old email address. Well, low and behold it went through. Hmm I have not heard anything back from that, and it was about visitation on the 14th. Yet you can reply here? My email address has not changed. (nor is it hard to find look up my name online, it's right there.) Nothing of mine has changed. Except my waste line a little (thanks for that) and my marital status. (nothing to do with you, and doesn't concern you)

Ok so, with the lawyers, my lawyer told me today that the 14th visitation has "nothing to do with what will be filed in court" soooo where does that leave us? Well, that leaves us back to the drawing board, because like hell your showing up and taking her out of here without supervised visitation. She doesn't know you and that is not fair to do to her. Your lawyer is going on vacation until the 18th, and they were talking about visitation being on the 21st. That gives us three days to sign and file (which won't happen) so visitation won't start then either. Well, whatever happened to the 14th? We are just going to throw mine and your agreements to the wayside, and file whatever in court? No sorry it doesn't work that way and will not be receiving my signature when it is sent.

The parenting time lines that WE already agreed to begins on July 14th. If you do not comply with the one we both have agreed to then we will need to draw up a new one, and it will take that much longer for you to meet her. This is a domino effect, and seems to me, it would be in both our best interests to get rid of the "lawyers" asap, or at least be on the same page, so we're not both paying lawyers for nothing but dragging things out longer than necessary.

Do you live back where you used to live now? If so, I could bring Naomi by there for you to see her anytime. I know you said you will not reply on here again, but until you can talk to me via email, or via phone, maybe this is good enough.

Let's just take it from here. All I have ever wanted was for Naomi to be able to know her biological father, and yep that's you Mr. Koontz. Check out her website, I kept it up for you to see her grow if you wanted to.

Thank you for your reply, I hope in the future we will be able to resolve our disputes without the need of this site, or lawyers.

All the best to you and yours-

hello, for starters, i want to say that up until today at this very moment i had not been to this site, i had only been told about it from friends, and if i had posted on here i would have used my actual name and not hide behind a false name like some might have thought i did. But this will be my first and last post on here.. so please read fully and try and keep as much of an open mind to this as you have to laura's posts, with the exceptions of like say joe who yes is my long time friend, he sometimes goes off half cocked before thinking about what is said (sorry man you know its true)

now i could sit here and type all night long and play the he said she said game, but what happend in the past between laura and i, well that was just that between her and i and well her husband as well..

do i regret what happened? yes and no.. yes i regret that it happened for one main reason and its not the reason that you all may think. because i chose to continue a relationship with laura for as long as i did it ended up destroying a long time marriage.. now the part that i do not regret is the fact that my daughter was born.. (ok now here is were i am sure some of you will stop reading and post a comment and or rebuttle , thats fine, i probally deserve what ever you want to throw at me..)

ok at the point were the lawyers got involved was do to these things.

1. upon birth, i was sent a text message stating that she was infact not mine, she looked just like laura, and a few other things of which i really dont feel like continually bringing them up.. so i won't. in anyrate at that time my girlfriend / fiance asked me to change my email, phone, and yahoo account.. i reluctantly changed them slowly one by one (the phone being the last one to change)

1.5 some were in the middle of 1. you yahoo'd me asking if i would be willing to pay for half of the dna test, of which i told you i would get back to you on that because i had to discuss it with my girlfriend/fiance, but since i was october and i was working two jobs at the time(atleast for the month of october) i obviously took too long to get back to you, for that i am sorry.. and not because of were we are now.. but because of the amount of time that has passed that i have missed out on..

1.75 ok there was one more thing, i recieved a couple of txt messages on my phone that were non-baby related so upon showing them to my now ex, she requested that i change the phone number as well.

2. after changing all those, i recieved a packet in the mail from child services (funny, they could reach me by mail but yet others could not??? hmm ) wanting employment info and what not. (now mind you at this moment i was still under the understanding that Naomi was not mine. so i called my lawyer since i had already been his client over other family matters with my father's well being. and briefly explained to him what had happened up to then and that was were he came into play from there on out.

now on to the d**n long waiting period with the lawyers..

basically my lawyer told child services that they were not getting any info until a paternity test was done, the next thing i know they dropped it.. so there again i as well as he figured that indeed Naomi must not be mine afterall..

i think a week maybe longer went by (sorry its been one of those years..) i get a letter in the mail yet again (still funny how child services and now lawyer can reach me by mail but yet nobody else can) only this time from laura's lawyer, so i met with my lawyer and gave him the letter, he called her lawyer, and from my understanding played phone tag with him. so yes laura to answer your question on one of your posts, yes your first lawyer was the main holdup.. i must have called my lawyer atleast twice and sometimes more a week asking him if he had heard anything.. this went on like this all the way up to were you from what i hear fired him due to the nasty little letter he mailed to my lawyer.. at this point i wish that had happened sooner.. honestly.. as far as i know we were waiting on your lawyer on the paternity test for a good 3weeks or more, and then after the results came back excluding your hubby, we waited about the same amount of time yet again for him to set an apointment for me (that one i was at my lawyers when he called your lawyer and left a voice mail stating as such, so i know he called) then it seemed like an eternity to hear back from the lab, when i did i met with my lawyer yet again and he then called your now ex-lawyer yet again and left yet another voicemail stating that he had gone over ther results with me and that it was time to get everything underway.

oh and on a side note laura, i do want to apologize for not getting back to you in october about the test then.. it was not that i didnt care or what ever reasons you may think.. the reasons be they good or bad or in your opinion an excuse.. are as follows.. 1. earlier that year my dad was diagnosed with senile dementia and altzimers (yeah as you know i can not spell worth a d**n) 2. he was placed in a nursing home. 3. had to deal with court battles with my oldest brother and mom over dad's well being and location and what not. 4. working 10hr days at work and then working another 5-6hrs after words during the week and longer on weekends at the farm for the entire month of october. oh and lets not forget 5. triing to keep a realationship together through all of it.. and well you know the rest from there on out.

ok back to the earlier part.. i contacted my lawyer on many occasions wanting to know what the hold up was with your lawyer.. he saidhe had not heard back from him as of yet, and this went on until the nasty letter from your lawyer.. i then met with mine and we went over it, and discussed were to go from there (and no it wasnt hell like you might like me to go to.. least not yet) the following day was were he found out that you had fired your lawyer and he then contacted you if i understood him correctly.. or maybe he had contacted your new lawyer.. either way at this point doesnt matter.. anyways he contected me the very next day and said that you had fired your old lawyer and that your new one was much nicer to deal with.. and now we have been in an email tag match so to speak on the dates and times and what not.. ok so i think that pretty much catches everyone up to speed on my side of the story.. so now is were (like the owner of this site states..) you can make your own choice as to were in the middle of all this her side and mine lies the truth, and form your own oppinions based off of two sides of it now instead of one..

Bottom line.. both her and i have had and may still have for a very long time to come, a strong hate or whatever towards each other.. but be that as it may.. that has to be left at the door when it comes to this child.. has it taken me too long to get to this point?? yeah it has.. have i learned anything during this? yes i have , a great many things in fact.. have i come to terms with having a child? yes i have even though it has taken me far to long to do so.. do i look forward to starting a relationship with my child? hell yeah i do.. (much like i told you way back before she was born, laura, if she was mine i would not do like my biological father had done to me.. i would be in the childs life)

ok i think i am done now writing this long bunch of mis spelled ramblings.. course those who know me.. know thats how i write.. jump from one subject to another and back again.. guess that goes hand in hand with attention problems..

Laura, i leave you with this in closing.. i do look forward to my first visit with Naomi, and from what i see on here that will be the 14th correct? i no longer have your phone number but i can be reached at my mothers house anytime after 5pm usually unless i get detained at work then it is more like 5:30 or 6pm(if that happens to be on a visitation day i will make sure to contact you as soon as i know of work schedule change)in anyrate, i know you know her number, i will let her know you may be calling and that if i am not there yet to give you my new number. because i sure as hell am not going to post it here .. sorry guys lol..

like i stated early on.. this is my first and only post on here, so flame on if you feel the need..

respectfully,

Robert Allen Koontz

hello, for starters, i want to say that up until today at this very moment i had not been to this site, i had only been told about it from friends, and if i had posted on here i would have used my actual name and not hide behind a false name like some might have thought i did. But this will be my first and last post on here.. so please read fully and try and keep as much of an open mind to this as you have to laura's posts, with the exceptions of like say joe who yes is my long time friend, he sometimes goes off half cocked before thinking about what is said (sorry man you know its true)

now i could sit here and type all night long and play the he said she said game, but what happend in the past between laura and i, well that was just that between her and i and well her husband as well..

do i regret what happened? yes and no.. yes i regret that it happened for one main reason and its not the reason that you all may think. because i chose to continue a relationship with laura for as long as i did it ended up destroying a long time marriage.. now the part that i do not regret is the fact that my daughter was born.. (ok now here is were i am sure some of you will stop reading and post a comment and or rebuttle , thats fine, i probally deserve what ever you want to throw at me..)

ok at the point were the lawyers got involved was do to these things.

1. upon birth, i was sent a text message stating that she was infact not mine, she looked just like laura, and a few other things of which i really dont feel like continually bringing them up.. so i won't. in anyrate at that time my girlfriend / fiance asked me to change my email, phone, and yahoo account.. i reluctantly changed them slowly one by one (the phone being the last one to change)

1.5 some were in the middle of 1. you yahoo'd me asking if i would be willing to pay for half of the dna test, of which i told you i would get back to you on that because i had to discuss it with my girlfriend/fiance, but since i was october and i was working two jobs at the time(atleast for the month of october) i obviously took too long to get back to you, for that i am sorry.. and not because of were we are now.. but because of the amount of time that has passed that i have missed out on..

1.75 ok there was one more thing, i recieved a couple of txt messages on my phone that were non-baby related so upon showing them to my now ex, she requested that i change the phone number as well.

2. after changing all those, i recieved a packet in the mail from child services (funny, they could reach me by mail but yet others could not??? hmm ) wanting employment info and what not. (now mind you at this moment i was still under the understanding that Naomi was not mine. so i called my lawyer since i had already been his client over other family matters with my father's well being. and briefly explained to him what had happened up to then and that was were he came into play from there on out.

now on to the d**n long waiting period with the lawyers..

basically my lawyer told child services that they were not getting any info until a paternity test was done, the next thing i know they dropped it.. so there again i as well as he figured that indeed Naomi must not be mine afterall..

i think a week maybe longer went by (sorry its been one of those years..) i get a letter in the mail yet again (still funny how child services and now lawyer can reach me by mail but yet nobody else can) only this time from laura's lawyer, so i met with my lawyer and gave him the letter, he called her lawyer, and from my understanding played phone tag with him. so yes laura to answer your question on one of your posts, yes your first lawyer was the main holdup.. i must have called my lawyer atleast twice and sometimes more a week asking him if he had heard anything.. this went on like this all the way up to were you from what i hear fired him due to the nasty little letter he mailed to my lawyer.. at this point i wish that had happened sooner.. honestly.. as far as i know we were waiting on your lawyer on the paternity test for a good 3weeks or more, and then after the results came back excluding your hubby, we waited about the same amount of time yet again for him to set an apointment for me (that one i was at my lawyers when he called your lawyer and left a voice mail stating as such, so i know he called) then it seemed like an eternity to hear back from the lab, when i did i met with my lawyer yet again and he then called your now ex-lawyer yet again and left yet another voicemail stating that he had gone over ther results with me and that it was time to get everything underway.

oh and on a side note laura, i do want to apologize for not getting back to you in october about the test then.. it was not that i didnt care or what ever reasons you may think.. the reasons be they good or bad or in your opinion an excuse.. are as follows.. 1. earlier that year my dad was diagnosed with senile dementia and altzimers (yeah as you know i can not spell worth a d**n) 2. he was placed in a nursing home. 3. had to deal with court battles with my oldest brother and mom over dad's well being and location and what not. 4. working 10hr days at work and then working another 5-6hrs after words during the week and longer on weekends at the farm for the entire month of october. oh and lets not forget 5. triing to keep a realationship together through all of it.. and well you know the rest from there on out.

ok back to the earlier part.. i contacted my lawyer on many occasions wanting to know what the hold up was with your lawyer.. he saidhe had not heard back from him as of yet, and this went on until the nasty letter from your lawyer.. i then met with mine and we went over it, and discussed were to go from there (and no it wasnt hell like you might like me to go to.. least not yet) the following day was were he found out that you had fired your lawyer and he then contacted you if i understood him correctly.. or maybe he had contacted your new lawyer.. either way at this point doesnt matter.. anyways he contected me the very next day and said that you had fired your old lawyer and that your new one was much nicer to deal with.. and now we have been in an email tag match so to speak on the dates and times and what not.. ok so i think that pretty much catches everyone up to speed on my side of the story.. so now is were (like the owner of this site states..) you can make your own choice as to were in the middle of all this her side and mine lies the truth, and form your own oppinions based off of two sides of it now instead of one..

Bottom line.. both her and i have had and may still have for a very long time to come, a strong hate or whatever towards each other.. but be that as it may.. that has to be left at the door when it comes to this child.. has it taken me too long to get to this point?? yeah it has.. have i learned anything during this? yes i have , a great many things in fact.. have i come to terms with having a child? yes i have even though it has taken me far to long to do so.. do i look forward to starting a relationship with my child? hell yeah i do.. (much like i told you way back before she was born, laura, if she was mine i would not do like my biological father had done to me.. i would be in the childs life)

ok i think i am done now writing this long bunch of mis spelled ramblings.. course those who know me.. know thats how i write.. jump from one subject to another and back again.. guess that goes hand in hand with attention problems..

Laura, i leave you with this in closing.. i do look forward to my first visit with Naomi, and from what i see on here that will be the 14th correct? i no longer have your phone number but i can be reached at my mothers house anytime after 5pm usually unless i get detained at work then it is more like 5:30 or 6pm(if that happens to be on a visitation day i will make sure to contact you as soon as i know of work schedule change)in anyrate, i know you know her number, i will let her know you may be calling and that if i am not there yet to give you my new number. because i sure as hell am not going to post it here .. sorry guys lol..

like i stated early on.. this is my first and only post on here, so flame on if you feel the need..

respectfully,

Robert Allen Koontz

Hi it is Sharon. I have been keeping up with your postings and it is okay to express your thoughts, it is called free speech, one of our rights as being a citizen. If Rob doesn't like what is posted about his in-actions, then I agree with you that he should step up to the plate.

The road is long and full of bumps and sometimes hills that you as a mother will have to overcome. I have to overcome mine on a daily basis. I only get a response from "Spokesperson" and Kelly may not like the name but that is what it boils down to, as you know he (Richard) doesn't answer for himself. Unfortunately his family cannot take back what has been said or written about you, I do feel your pain. Just remember that you are there 24/7 for all of your children, it is your responsibility to make sure that they are happy, healthy, and that they come from a good environment. Yes, you will be judged but look at the ones that are judging you, people who don't care.

My own story continues and at every turn I have been called every name and told that my children will grow up to hate me because that is all that they are taught. Contrary to popular beleif he is not the topic of conversation, we do have an ordinary life with work, paying bills, dealilng with two teenages, having more teenagers in my house then I know what to do with. On any given weekend, when both of my kids are home, there are at least 8-10 of their friends running in and out, teenagers sleeping on my living room floor after an all night movie party. These are the memories that you have to look forward too. I wouldn't trade it for the world. The headaches I would but not all of the laughter.

I have a binder where when things are really bad for myself I just write, it makes no sense it is just me releasing things. It is quite helpful along with the work on my site. Laura you keep up your postings (or your writings) as long as you want.

Take care,

How interesting that you would throw this site into our agreements via our attorney's.

As I've told my attorney, I cannot remove the things said here, that is out of my control.

If you have something to say about the things stated here then just say them.

I hope like hell your not planning on using this site as your next excuse why you can't be a father to Naomi.

You don't like the truthful things said about your here? Maybe you should have stepped up to the plate when you asked me for a baby, and freakin begged me to get off birth control for two months prior to getting pregnant. You should have told me THEN you planned on never seeing her, or being a father to her. How was I to know this is the path you would choose? You went way into left field with your actions, and I used this site as a form of release, as your actions crushed what ounce of trust I had left for you. I also was trying to gain feedback from my peers as to why someone would do such things. I did not start this site to hurt you, or to discredit your existance.

Maybe you found God, maybe you found peace, maybe your wife/girlfriend/fiance, told you to do what your doing, but no matter what the reasons for your new found "working with me" it does not change the past, nor does it change having to fight you for over a year to get you to do the RIGHT THING.

I do not apologize for saying the truth, and I do not apologize for this site. I have been hurt by you, your mom, your wife, and your friend throughout this whole ordeal, and I cannot take back what you did to me, or to Naomi. I am working on forgiveness, to be able to tolerate your presence long enough for our daughter to know you peacefully. If you feel you need to lay blame, then do so, but I CANNOT remove these postings, (or I would remove your "friend's" hurtful words as well.)

You want to play nice all of the sudden - thank you, it is appreciated, but you have not wanted to "play nice" for a long time, and that is not my fault.

I hope you plan on practicing better future actions compared to what you have shown thus far, for our daughter. Peace is a much better approach when it comes to raising a child.

No matter what, it is not fair to NAOMI (who is all both of us should be thinking about) for either parent to abandon HER for ANY REASON.

May God bless you and yours-

An agreement has been reached. We are now in agreement with all aspects to include visitation, financial, medical, and so forth.

Rob's visitation starts on July 14th 2006. He at this time has not met his daughter. If he follows all agreements he will meet Naomi on July 14th.

Divorce papers are all filed, served, and the divorce is amicable with my current husband. I am working with my mother, and my ex husband in order to finish school, and prepare a much better life for my children.

This appears to be the end of the fighting. Good luck to all of us. My children are the most important, and they are all very happy, and well secure, and I am blessed, and thank God for watching over all of us.

Rob's lawyer counter offered a parenting plan. I sent a new revised parenting plan to my attorney on June 23.

We are in the process of negotiations in reguards to parenting timelines, which will also effect amount of child support owed.

On and on and on we go. Supposedly I am hearing something from Rob's side tomorrow. Good grief does this ever end?

I am going back to school, and working pt. So far, we are all doing well for the kids in the situation with the divorce. I have to say my husband (or soon to be ex husband) has shown himself a worthy father, a loyal stand up man for his children during this time in our lives. I have absolutely no regrets about the divorce, and both of us are moving on with our lives, yet working together for the benefit of the children's emotional and financial status.

I will post more if things change with the case from time to time. At this point, I wish some court judge would just put a stamp on a paper and let that be the way it is, for this.. attorney this, and attorney that to end.

Rob should be responsible for Naomi. I hear, yeah things are moving along, and he's working with me, then I hear nothing for weeks. Then I think working with me how? He still hasn't seen his daughter, he still hasn't sent a dime in child support, I still have not received a medical card from his side. Working with me? Um, ok. In all reality nothing has changed, that's what I see. In all reality it's tiring and life draining to say the least.

Hmm, funny my ex husband doesn't seem to have a problem paying support, even before he's asked for his two children. He doesn't seem to have any problem opening his schedule to come over every day, or every other day, to see his children and actually BE a father to them. I would consider THAT working with me. But Rob? No I would not consider the actions I have seen from Rob "working with me" on any level.

Awe Thank you so much Aafes. That saying you said touched my heart and I appreciate the kind thoughts, and words. Sincerely. How did you know I'm Irish? LOL

I too was frustrated by Rob's response or lack thereof for a very long time. Even today it kills me that he doesn't know Naomi, and Naomi doesn't know him. However, I cannot change him, so I am left with that result at this time.
I will continue to pray that what is best for Naomi will always be, as I leave it to God fully for the best outcome in Naomi's life. I have a website which I created for Naomi before she was born, (which he knows about, and maybe even looks at) and on there I have placed pictures, little stories, ect. of her life as she grows. If nothing else, it is there for Rob to "check in on her" from time to time, if he doesn't want to know me in the process of knowing Naomi. I truly wish Naomi would be able to know him, but maybe God has other plans, so that is ok.

Retreating from my own pride, and pain is something I felt as a mother I had to do for Naomi's well being when it comes to her father. I do not want to be a problem no matter when or if the time ever comes that Rob wishes to know his daughter. Or, Naomi wants to look him up in the future. It is best as far as I'm concerned for a biological father to know their children, and my daughter deserves to have her questions answered if it takes years for her to meet him. I need to keep an unbiast opinion for Naomi's well being. I am her mother, and I need to make sure not to become the problem, and just support her wishes, and life at that time.

I am as I've stated numerous times a very family oriented person. I know that sounds wrong now that I am in the process of a divorce that I myself have filed for, but it is still the truth. I would do anything to make sure my children are well balanced throughout their lives. No matter what the cost, or sacrifice I myself have to endure. Of course, my ultimate goal is to make us all happy, however, my children are my priority, their well balanced outlooks on life in general, their upbringing, safety, kindness and life successes.

I have always, and will always place them first, as that is my job as their mother. If that means swallowing my pride, or biting my tounge when it comes to the adults in their lives, then that is what I will do. It is my responsability to make sure their lives are the best they can be, and they understand the value of family, and yes even forgiveness. Maybe I'm to laid back, but I prefer peace in my life, and my children's lives. To me, it is not worth my children's minds, hearts, or lives to have so much pride as to hold people at arms length for things done, or said that are where they should be which is in the past.

I love life, and my children and myself are accepting this new found life very well, and we are very happy at this time. It is my job to keep us on the right path for their futures.

Thank you so much to everyone for the support it is appreciated during this time in our lives.

All the best to everyone-

Thank you Laura, your recent post actually answered all of my questions and a few I had not thought of.

In the past I have become somewhat frustrated seeing your changes of mind and heart. As a man, I handle emotions and emotional situations differently. As you are probably aware, almost all men are "fixers". Rather than opening our hearts and minds and listening carefully we quickly try to analyze a situation and find what we believe is the best solution. This was one of the weaknesses in my marriage. I have since learned (or thought I had) that many times when a woman is relating a problem or frustration she simply wants someone to truly listen.

When I first say your posts here I was outraged at how Rob was responding to this situation and wanted to offer pointers from my personal and professional experiences. I did not always keep an open mind as I saw you post passionately about a matter and then retreating when it seemed Rob had a change of heart.

This gave me the impression that you were bouncing back and forth and not considering all the facts and options. I was simply in the mindset of the "fixer".

I apologize if I offended you in any way. As I said, only you know all the facts and the entire story.

I commend you on your passion for providing a stable life for your children. You have, as I said, chosen the hard road and from your most recent posts considered all the consequences. I think you are prepared to face them.

The road ahead will be long, steep and rocky. Stay the course and trust in your instincts.

An Irish Blessing for you and your children:

"May your neighbors respect you,
Trouble neglect you,
The angels protect you,
And heaven accept you."

God bless and keep you safe, healthy and happy all the days of your life.

Thank you Laura, your recent post actually answered all of my questions and a few I had not thought of.

In the past I have become somewhat frustrated seeing your changes of mind and heart. As a man, I handle emotions and emotional situations differently. As you are probably aware, almost all men are "fixers". Rather than opening our hearts and minds and listening carefully we quickly try to analyze a situation and find what we believe is the best solution. This was one of the weaknesses in my marriage. I have since learned (or thought I had) that many times when a woman is relating a problem or frustration she simply wants someone to truly listen.

When I first say your posts here I was outraged at how Rob was responding to this situation and wanted to offer pointers from my personal and professional experiences. I did not always keep an open mind as I saw you post passionately about a matter and then retreating when it seemed Rob had a change of heart.

This gave me the impression that you were bouncing back and forth and not considering all the facts and options. I was simply in the mindset of the "fixer".

I apologize if I offended you in any way. As I said, only you know all the facts and the entire story.

I commend you on your passion for providing a stable life for your children. You have, as I said, chosen the hard road and from your most recent posts considered all the consequences. I think you are prepared to face them.

The road ahead will be long, steep and rocky. Stay the course and trust in your instincts.

An Irish Blessing for you and your children:

"May your neighbors respect you,
Trouble neglect you,
The angels protect you,
And heaven accept you."

God bless and keep you safe, healthy and happy all the days of your life.

Thank you Laura, your recent post actually answered all of my questions and a few I had not thought of.

In the past I have become somewhat frustrated seeing your changes of mind and heart. As a man, I handle emotions and emotional situations differently. As you are probably aware, almost all men are "fixers". Rather than opening our hearts and minds and listening carefully we quickly try to analyze a situation and find what we believe is the best solution. This was one of the weaknesses in my marriage. I have since learned (or thought I had) that many times when a woman is relating a problem or frustration she simply wants someone to truly listen.

When I first say your posts here I was outraged at how Rob was responding to this situation and wanted to offer pointers from my personal and professional experiences. I did not always keep an open mind as I saw you post passionately about a matter and then retreating when it seemed Rob had a change of heart.

This gave me the impression that you were bouncing back and forth and not considering all the facts and options. I was simply in the mindset of the "fixer".

I apologize if I offended you in any way. As I said, only you know all the facts and the entire story.

I commend you on your passion for providing a stable life for your children. You have, as I said, chosen the hard road and from your most recent posts considered all the consequences. I think you are prepared to face them.

The road ahead will be long, steep and rocky. Stay the course and trust in your instincts.

An Irish Blessing for you and your children:

"May your neighbors respect you,
Trouble neglect you,
The angels protect you,
And heaven accept you."

God bless and keep you safe, healthy and happy all the days of your life.

Thank you Laura, your recent post actually answered all of my questions and a few I had not thought of.

In the past I have become somewhat frustrated seeing your changes of mind and heart. As a man, I handle emotions and emotional situations differently. As you are probably aware, almost all men are "fixers". Rather than opening our hearts and minds and listening carefully we quickly try to analyze a situation and find what we believe is the best solution. This was one of the weaknesses in my marriage. I have since learned (or thought I had) that many times when a woman is relating a problem or frustration she simply wants someone to truly listen.

When I first say your posts here I was outraged at how Rob was responding to this situation and wanted to offer pointers from my personal and professional experiences. I did not always keep an open mind as I saw you post passionately about a matter and then retreating when it seemed Rob had a change of heart.

This gave me the impression that you were bouncing back and forth and not considering all the facts and options. I was simply in the mindset of the "fixer".

I apologize if I offended you in any way. As I said, only you know all the facts and the entire story.

I commend you on your passion for providing a stable life for your children. You have, as I said, chosen the hard road and from your most recent posts considered all the consequences. I think you are prepared to face them.

The road ahead will be long, steep and rocky. Stay the course and trust in your instincts.

An Irish Blessing for you and your children:

"May your neighbors respect you,
Trouble neglect you,
The angels protect you,
And heaven accept you."

God bless and keep you safe, healthy and happy all the days of your life.

My mistake- there are more males on this thread than just marc and aafes. There is also Joe, and Jim to my knowledge.

Joe is biast to say the least. My personal opinion is "joe" is not his real name, but rather Rob being a coward. (in one form or another)

My belief is Jim is a floater. Not really coming back to any thread he replies to. So I did forget about both of these men on my thread. I wanted to correct my words mispoken.

Aafes: If you would point out what my contradictions are I will be more than happy to tell you what is going on with the situation at the time and give a truthful reason for any contradictions I may have said. I did become a little bit offended by your remarks as you also went from "I sound like a good mother" to "unstable" and "emotional back and forth" I took that and heard "custody battle" "crazy" and "bi-polar freak" as those have been stated to me from Rob's side of the family.

I will do my best to answer any questions you or anyone may have about my thread, and will not be offended by any questions asked as such, and understand they are questions, not presumptions.

All the best -

Just a few more thoughts to clarify any misunderstandings on my situation.

L: This is where I realized my husband was ashamed of the Koontz name, by his reaction. (as he is also ashamed of my maiden name) Yet he is not willing to keep Naomi's last name as our own. (which our other two children also have)

L: Naomi will have Koontz as her last name at this point

L: In my personal opinion, my husband had his chance. In my personal opinion he cannot have it both ways.

L: In my personal living it experience he will be there as a "step-father" and that is the best I will get.

a: Just to let you all know, my husband has shown himself to be an excellent father to his two children, (and he doesn't exclude Naomi in activities if they are age appropriate)

L: In my personal opinion you cannot love someone (like he "shows") and not love them truly, and unconditionally, at the same time.

a: Yet he is not willing to keep Naomi's last name as our own.

b: There is nobody WILLING to adopt her (aka my husband) so therefore "signing away rights" doesn't come into play here. That is not my call it is my husband's.

c: (although he signed the birth certificate he did not want to, but I was crying and he did it for me, he has regreted it, and has been trying to undo it ever since)


L: In my personal opinion I am protecting my children from being divided amongst eachother, by seperating the adults who are dividing the children.

a: (please note: my husband was going to divorce me in the past recent months, for the sole purpose of making me get on assistance to file against rob for child support)

b: Hello, if he left me and I "wouldn't know what to do" then who the hell do you think is paying for the lawyer, and pushing the issue?

c: Everytime I tried to stop the case, in other words I would talk to my husband about leaving it alone and moving on with our lives, he would say of course.. I back you in whatever you choose to do.. However, that statement was as good as a heater in the desert because within a day or so I would start hearing "all men know if they play they pay" and "did you hear anything from the attorney?" (aka do you need more money to give to the attorney) In any case.. he obviously was not happy with "letting it go" or backing down. This is where my posts would come in about wondering if it was about the male spieces fighting instead of Naomi's best interest.

d: Naomi will have Koontz as her last name at this point
- yet my husband is ashamed of the Koontz name? What does that do for our children's unity?

You see, in my own time I came to the understanding that even though someone (my husband) will be around for her, he does not view her as his own, as one should when they are a family. He wants Rob to pay child support because that is the norm? Because he's still mad at him? Because he wants to get paid back for all the money he's put out for rob's daughter? I really don't know why. When I told him if rob pays child support I'm putting it into a college fund for Naomi, he left well enough alone. However, whenever we talked about going to disneyland, he said yeah and rob can pay for it. This was a strange statement to me, and I thought hmm I think this issue is more about my husband upset at rob then what is best for Naomi. Whether or not he is aware of his true feelings this is what is being protrayed to me by his actions on the big issues such as: adoption, keeping our whole family with the same last name, and him not wanting to have his name on the birth certificate any longer. This is the way things are.

Now, I could "pretend" we are all going to be just fine, but I do believe if I stay in this marriage (which I am not doing) then at a later time in Naomi's life she will ultimately feel like not part of the family, or "different." This is something I was worried about already with her skin tone in this city, she certainly does not need to feel that at her own sanctuary - her home from her own family members.

I hope I explained this in a better way so people will understand why I am going down this path instead of "leaving well enough alone." That time has come and gone, and to be honest, I did leave well enough alone for 7 months of her life. I held out a long time before this all came about, and yes I was under some pressure myself here at home to start this case against Rob, which enevitably I did.

I am not saying Rob doesn't need to pay child support by no means. I believe Rob should be responsible for his daughter. I am not holding out any hope at this point about a relationship or visitation, as Rob's intentions are clear as a bell. However, I will continue to try to get some funds for Naomi from Rob. If at anytime Rob wishes to see her, I will never be the one to tell him he cannot. She is today as she has been for over a year his daughter also.

I really am doing the best I can with the situation before me.

and the point of my post was to explain to you that you are not seeing the big picture. You keep telling me that I am contradicting myself so I will make this very clear. But before I do, I have one thing to say to you. Please do not paint me into a pretty picture of being against ALL men. I am not against ALL men. I am against dead beat men (and women fyi) I appreciate comments from both males and females and I take their comments and do my best to understand what they are seeing, as an outside opinion is sometimes the best advice to get. Hence the start of this thread to begin with.

If you read my thread you will see, so I will copy and paste my answers, as they are already there.

Contradictions you noted:

A: Yet less than 3 months ago: "Well, my husband decided he doesn't want anything to do with the baby because she's not his. He moved out and filed for divorce. I have no idea what I'm going to do now!"

L: Well first let's just go ahead and focus on my marriage for one second.. My marriage in a word rollacoaster. Not for the past year or so (please note: my husband was going to divorce me in the past recent months, for the sole purpose of making me get on assistance to file against rob for child support)

A: "...He did NOT try to do his best when it came to Naomi..." (you commenting on your husband), yet again in contradiction to a previous post:

L: My husband's last name has always been important to him. (as it should be) When Naomi was born I.. I gave her MY last name (which happens to be my husbands also)(I had my reasons, rob didn't show up was one) My husband has complained about that aspect for some time now. (although he signed the birth certificate he did not want to, but I was crying and he did it for me, he has regreted it, and has been trying to undo it ever since)

L: My husband did not say one way or the other at that time, (his feelings on the matter of adoption) or at anytime until recently.. When I asked him straight out are you willing to adopt Naomi or not? His reply was No I will not adopt her, but I will raise her with you as my own. This is where I said SHE IS ALREADY MY OWN, and I became upset. yes. He obviously does not view her as I do, but then again he didn't give birth to her, and he has mixed feelings about the situation.

A: "But my husband has stated & shown it is NOT Naomi's fault, he loves Naomi. He shows this daily when he comes home from work and scoops her up in his arms and says how's daddy's baby girl doing today.

He shows this when he crawls all over the house chasing her and making her laugh her little heart out.

He shows this daily, when he feeds her, and rocks her to sleep in the evenings. He shows this daily when he sends me a text message asking me how his "little peanut" is doing today. (The Dr. called her that because she was so small when she was born, and that's been her nickname from daddy ever since.)So please, Don't condemn my husband because he doesn't want Rob to be able to treat baby Naomi like garbage."

L: Just to let you all know, my husband has shown himself to be an excellent father to his two children, (and he doesn't exclude Naomi in activities if they are age appropriate) even through this divorce in our lives, and I am proud of him for his maturity in this situation.

L: (although he signed the birth certificate he did not want to, but I was crying and he did it for me, he has regreted it, and has been trying to undo it ever since)

L: When I asked him straight out are you willing to adopt Naomi or not? His reply was No I will not adopt her, but I will raise her with you as my own.

L: My husband's last name has always been important to him. (as it should be) When Naomi was born I.. I gave her MY last name (which happens to be my husbands also)(I had my reasons, rob didn't show up was one) My husband has complained about that aspect for some time now.

Aafes the only other male on here is Marc, and I think you and I agree when it comes to his mentality and lack of maturity. I am sorry if I came off upset or aggressive. I did not mean to be harsh, or make you feel your comments were not welcomed by me. I respect you actually in the life you have chosen from your posts abroad, and in this thread. I am just trying to enlighten you to the situation at hand in my own life, and unfortunately, (although I did want it that way) it does not emulate your life.

Laura-Thanks for the reply and I am glad that I could, in some way, give you some useful advise. Don't let others beat you down or attack you. You are the mother of these children, not someone else. A lot of people think that just because as a mother we take something as a "Deadbeat Parent" public that it gives them the right to tell how to parent according to their ways. Let someone live a day in your shoes, or any of our shoes, and see what is put up with on a daily basis.

Life is hard enough itself, and raising children doesn't come with a manual at birth. You know what is best, you strive for what you think is best for your situation. Advise and opinions are just that, real life is a different story.

Naomi will have Koontz as her last name at this point. My lawyer is already in the process of changing it to Koontz with the agreement, and it just makes sense that she is Koontz at this time. If later down the line Naomi would like to change her last name to my maiden name, as I am going back to my maiden name, then she will have that option, but I will let that be her choice later in life.

Today is father's day, so happy father's day to all you FATHERS out there. It doesnt take much to make a child happy, and although things with spouses, ex's, and so forth may not have worked out, your children should always be your number 1 priority in life. Children are the product and result of a better time in your past, and they are worth your future.

Just to let you all know, my husband has shown himself to be an excellent father to his two children, (and he doesn't exclude Naomi in activities if they are age appropriate) even through this divorce in our lives, and I am proud of him for his maturity in this situation.

May God be with us all.

The point of my post, Laura, was to show you that you contradict yourself over and over. I won't point out specifics as you seem to be of the mind that I am condemning you somehow.

I have followed this post simply because I was interested in the well being of Naomi and did not want to see yet another mother manipulated by an irresponsible man like Rob has proven himself to be.

It is your life, they are your choices and only you know the truth of the entire situation. Everyone deals with a particular experience in a different way. You are choosing your own way, and I commend you for that. You are not taking the easy way out.

It is apparent that you only accept comments made by women in the matter at hand as being worth consideration. So be it.

The opinions I have offered are only those of a neutral third party. I have only commented based on facts as you have related them.

As your emotional state and mindset has more twists and turns than a roller coaster it is difficult to offer comments at all.

I wish you only the best. It is my hope and prayer that you will live a long, healthy and happy life and that all your children will experience the same. God bless you and yours and keep you safe.

The point of my post, Laura, was to show you that you contradict yourself over and over. I won't point out specifics as you seem to be of the mind that I am condemning you somehow.

I have followed this post simply because I was interested in the well being of Naomi and did not want to see yet another mother manipulated by an irresponsible man like Rob has proven himself to be.

It is your life, they are your choices and only you know the truth of the entire situation. Everyone deals with a particular experience in a different way. You are choosing your own way, and I commend you for that. You are not taking the easy way out.

It is apparent that you only accept comments made by women in the matter at hand as being worth consideration. So be it.

The opinions I have offered are only those of a neutral third party. I have only commented based on facts as you have related them.

As your emotional state and mindset has more twists and turns than a roller coaster it is difficult to offer comments at all.

I wish you only the best. It is my hope and prayer that you will live a long, healthy and happy life and that all your children will experience the same. God bless you and yours and keep you safe.

The point of my post, Laura, was to show you that you contradict yourself over and over. I won't point out specifics as you seem to be of the mind that I am condemning you somehow.

I have followed this post simply because I was interested in the well being of Naomi and did not want to see yet another mother manipulated by an irresponsible man like Rob has proven himself to be.

It is your life, they are your choices and only you know the truth of the entire situation. Everyone deals with a particular experience in a different way. You are choosing your own way, and I commend you for that. You are not taking the easy way out.

It is apparent that you only accept comments made by women in the matter at hand as being worth consideration. So be it.

The opinions I have offered are only those of a neutral third party. I have only commented based on facts as you have related them.

As your emotional state and mindset has more twists and turns than a roller coaster it is difficult to offer comments at all.

I wish you only the best. It is my hope and prayer that you will live a long, healthy and happy life and that all your children will experience the same. God bless you and yours and keep you safe.

The point of my post, Laura, was to show you that you contradict yourself over and over. I won't point out specifics as you seem to be of the mind that I am condemning you somehow.

I have followed this post simply because I was interested in the well being of Naomi and did not want to see yet another mother manipulated by an irresponsible man like Rob has proven himself to be.

It is your life, they are your choices and only you know the truth of the entire situation. Everyone deals with a particular experience in a different way. You are choosing your own way, and I commend you for that. You are not taking the easy way out.

It is apparent that you only accept comments made by women in the matter at hand as being worth consideration. So be it.

The opinions I have offered are only those of a neutral third party. I have only commented based on facts as you have related them.

As your emotional state and mindset has more twists and turns than a roller coaster it is difficult to offer comments at all.

I wish you only the best. It is my hope and prayer that you will live a long, healthy and happy life and that all your children will experience the same. God bless you and yours and keep you safe.

Aafes: For the last time MY HUSBAND IS NOT YOU. You want every man to think as you do but it's just not the case with my husband.

I just told you recently about what was going on, yet you seem to just pick and choose what you want to see.

I'm proud of YOU for adopting your wife's kids. Congratulations to YOU. But that is NOT my situation, so quit focusing on how great a man my husband is because you view yourself that way. That is simply NOT the case here. Please do not start attacking me because I am doing what is best for myself and my children, NOT for my husband for the first time in my life.

It is taking more courage, and strength than you, or anyone will ever know, to do what I'm doing, and stay on this course for years to come. I do not need the added condemnments, and "I told you so's" from you on this matter. Your opinion does not change the TRUTH of this matter even a little bit.

I've already stated above that MY OPINION on my husband (and I think I would know best of all people) is he cannot love Naomi (like he "shows") (let me clarify that for you Aafes, he comes home scoops her up in his arms says how's daddy's little peanut doing ect. ect.) and yet NOT love her enough to keep his last name, and to even adopt her. I've already said in my earlier post what it is that is causing some of this division in my family, and if you take the time to read it all the way through you will get what is going on. If not, you will continue to defend him and say this is a breaking point HE has come to and frankly that is SO far from the truth it's actually funny you would say so.

You are way off base about the WHOLE ENTIRE LAWYER ORDEAL. Hello, if he left me and I "wouldn't know what to do" then who the hell do you think is paying for the lawyer, and pushing the issue? THINK Aafes. READ what is going on. It's there just read it. (btw I already explained THAT whole scenario of a "divorce" from him (as if) in an earlier post as well)

As for me pushing teachings onto my daughter: First of all, don't tell me how to raise my children. Secondly, I AM her mother AND her father at this point, so if she learns that from having me as one in the same then maybe it is NOT ME teaching her that. Think before you speak please.

At the least be consistent in what you tell us. You said in your last comment regarding the divorce that the divorce was not coming from your husband, even a little bit....

Yet less than 3 months ago: "Well, my husband decided he doesn't want anything to do with the baby because she's not his. He moved out and filed for divorce. I have no idea what I'm going to do now!"

"...He did NOT try to do his best when it came to Naomi..." (you commenting on your husband), yet again in contradiction to a previous post:

"But my husband has stated & shown it is NOT Naomi's fault, he loves Naomi. He shows this daily when he comes home from work and scoops her up in his arms and says how's daddy's baby girl doing today.

He shows this when he crawls all over the house chasing her and making her laugh her little heart out.

He shows this daily, when he feeds her, and rocks her to sleep in the evenings. He shows this daily when he sends me a text message asking me how his "little peanut" is doing today. (The Dr. called her that because she was so small when she was born, and that's been her nickname from daddy ever since.)So please, Don't condemn my husband because he doesn't want Rob to be able to treat baby Naomi like garbage."

Your husband WAS trying. Every man has his breaking point. The repeated daily "Rob this, Rob that, Rob, Rob, Rob..." conversations, as well as your time spent going from lawyer to lawyer, posting here and only you know what else, finally drove him to the breaking point. If in your eyes you have seen him as "NOT" trying in recent months it is because he was reaching this point.

He WAS trying - honorably - by your own postings you indicated this. What was lacking was the support and appreciation for the effort he was making.

Now you seem to be in a place where you have distrust for all men. Your most recent posts in this thread and others regarding child support indicate this. You need to put that behind you. Otherwise, this mindset will be passed on to Naomi and it is not fair that you do so.

No disrespect intended sir.

I feel you need to read some of my situation again before you continue stating things as you are. I was hardly the person who wanted to persue any child support, visitation, or otherwise, when it came to rob and this situation. My husband was given the opportunity to adopt Naomi, but he refused to do so. It is at this time I noticed my marriage, my family, was already divided. I as a mother to not only Naomi but yes two other children from my husband has to walk a straight line, and do things calmly for my children's emotional benefit.

In my personal opinion, my husband had his chance. In my personal opinion he cannot have it both ways. In my personal living it experience he will be there as a "step-father" and that is the best I will get. (if that) In my personal opinion, that is not good enough. In my personal opinion you cannot love someone (like he "shows") and not love them truly, and unconditionally, at the same time. In my personal opinion I am protecting my children from being divided amongst eachother, by seperating the adults who are dividing the children.


Marie:

My husband's last name has always been important to him. (as it should be) When Naomi was born I.. I gave her MY last name (which happens to be my husbands also)(I had my reasons, rob didn't show up was one) My husband has complained about that aspect for some time now. (although he signed the birth certificate he did not want to, but I was crying and he did it for me, he has regreted it, and has been trying to undo it ever since)

My lawyer has been in the process of changing Naomi's last name to Koontz with the "agreements." (whenever that happens to come about)

The other day about two weeks ago, I was outside weeding the yard. I took a break and sat on our front porch with my husband, and Naomi was playing nearby. I noticed our last name sign on our doorway, and said we should put Koontz on there as well for Naomi since her name is changing. This is where I realized my husband was ashamed of the Koontz name, by his reaction. (as he is also ashamed of my maiden name) Yet he is not willing to keep Naomi's last name as our own. (which our other two children also have) This caused an effect in my thinking yes. This caused an effect in my evaluation of the actual situation, and the feelings Naomi may end up feeling when she is older. My family is already divided. In or out of this marriage the division is already there. This is NOT Naomi's fault, it is mine.

No disrespect intended sir.

I feel you need to read some of my situation again before you continue stating things as you are. I was hardly the person who wanted to persue any child support, visitation, or otherwise, when it came to rob and this situation. My husband was given the opportunity to adopt Naomi, but he refused to do so. It is at this time I noticed my marriage, my family, was already divided. I as a mother to not only Naomi but yes two other children from my husband has to walk a straight line, and do things calmly for my children's emotional benefit.

In my personal opinion, my husband had his chance. In my personal opinion he cannot have it both ways. In my personal living it experience he will be there as a "step-father" and that is the best I will get. (if that) In my personal opinion, that is not good enough. In my personal opinion you cannot love someone (like he "shows") and not love them truly, and unconditionally, at the same time. In my personal opinion I am protecting my children from being divided amongst eachother, by seperating the adults who are dividing the children.


Marie:

My husband's last name has always been important to him. (as it should be) When Naomi was born I.. I gave her MY last name (which happens to be my husbands also)(I had my reasons, rob didn't show up was one) My husband has complained about that aspect for some time now. (although he signed the birth certificate he did not want to, but I was crying and he did it for me, he has regreted it, and has been trying to undo it ever since)

My lawyer has been in the process of changing Naomi's last name to Koontz with the "agreements." (whenever that happens to come about)

The other day about two weeks ago, I was outside weeding the yard. I took a break and sat on our front porch with my husband, and Naomi was playing nearby. I noticed our last name sign on our doorway, and said we should put Koontz on there as well for Naomi since her name is changing. This is where I realized my husband was ashamed of the Koontz name, by his reaction. (as he is also ashamed of my maiden name) Yet he is not willing to keep Naomi's last name as our own. (which our other two children also have) This caused an effect in my thinking yes. This caused an effect in my evaluation of the actual situation, and the feelings Naomi may end up feeling when she is older. My family is already divided. In or out of this marriage the division is already there. This is NOT Naomi's fault, it is mine.

No disrespect intended sir.

I feel you need to read some of my situation again before you continue stating things as you are. I was hardly the person who wanted to persue any child support, visitation, or otherwise, when it came to rob and this situation. My husband was given the opportunity to adopt Naomi, but he refused to do so. It is at this time I noticed my marriage, my family, was already divided. I as a mother to not only Naomi but yes two other children from my husband has to walk a straight line, and do things calmly for my children's emotional benefit.

In my personal opinion, my husband had his chance. In my personal opinion he cannot have it both ways. In my personal living it experience he will be there as a "step-father" and that is the best I will get. (if that) In my personal opinion, that is not good enough. In my personal opinion you cannot love someone (like he "shows") and not love them truly, and unconditionally, at the same time. In my personal opinion I am protecting my children from being divided amongst eachother, by seperating the adults who are dividing the children.


Marie:

My husband's last name has always been important to him. (as it should be) When Naomi was born I.. I gave her MY last name (which happens to be my husbands also)(I had my reasons, rob didn't show up was one) My husband has complained about that aspect for some time now. (although he signed the birth certificate he did not want to, but I was crying and he did it for me, he has regreted it, and has been trying to undo it ever since)

My lawyer has been in the process of changing Naomi's last name to Koontz with the "agreements." (whenever that happens to come about)

The other day about two weeks ago, I was outside weeding the yard. I took a break and sat on our front porch with my husband, and Naomi was playing nearby. I noticed our last name sign on our doorway, and said we should put Koontz on there as well for Naomi since her name is changing. This is where I realized my husband was ashamed of the Koontz name, by his reaction. (as he is also ashamed of my maiden name) Yet he is not willing to keep Naomi's last name as our own. (which our other two children also have) This caused an effect in my thinking yes. This caused an effect in my evaluation of the actual situation, and the feelings Naomi may end up feeling when she is older. My family is already divided. In or out of this marriage the division is already there. This is NOT Naomi's fault, it is mine.

Marc, Grow up already. You talk about things you know nothing about. You are still calling him my new husband so you've obviously not read my thread. Let me inform you we've been married 9 years, and now we are getting a divorce because I want to (to k.i.s.s.) not because he's "looking for a better deal"

Since you have the IQ of a 12 year old boy why don't you go talk about cars, and toys with your friends and stay off my thread. From your postings you are obviously one of those boys in bars, that run all over the place looking for the next "hook up" and then blame the women when they get pregnant. You probably will not live very long, as you do not see the need to "wrap it" when your outside "playing" like the little boy you are.

As for having the "hots" (as you so tactfully put it) for Rob. Even when I was with Rob it was a meaningful relationship AT THE TIME, in my opinion. As we were two concenting adults desiring a child of our own. When you have a child with someone you don't just get to leave all of your feelings in the past when one chooses to walk away. They may take on a new form of identity, acknowledgement, and comprehension, but there is always a connection because reality is two equals one. That person is always connected to you through your child with appearances, facial expressions, personalities, emotions, interactions, ect. no matter how far away they are, or how long they are gone, even if forever. You sir would not understand this at your maturity level at this time in your life. I would continue but you do not have the capacity to comprehend such bonds, connections, emotions, or human interactions when it comes to the conception, creation, and birth, followed by upbringing, and life, of a completely seperate human being brought on by all of those things previously stated.

My suggestion to you marc, is give it 10 years, and then come back and tell me your opinion.

Thank you for the amount of support I received here lately. I appreciate all of your comments very much.

I am not viewing this as a hard or rough time in my life simply because well, its something that has been in the works for years really. 2004 was the beginning of the end with my marriage. I did try and it doesn't matter who's to blame, as our focus should be on our children, not who's wrong or right.

Yes Elizabeth, you are exactly correct. I have never been alone, and that is exactly the way I want things to be. I want to do things for me, live my life free, and just for me, and my children.

I am not sad about this at all, actually I'm excited about the untraveled journey in which I'm about to embark upon, and am looking forward to getting up each day as a fresh start.

Here's what happened: a door opened and I'm running, jumping, flying, through it, and not looking back. The divorce was in the works really for years. This divorce is not a suprise to me, as a matter of fact it's coming from me. I'm just done guys. I don't know what else to say. I am just done, and no I'm not sad, not even a little bit about it. I appreciate all of your guys' concerns, and caring attitudes, and advice. My kids and I are just fine. I have filed the paperwork at the courthouse.

I'm not going to speak much about my marriage, as I'm looking ahead and I really don't have any desire to wallow around in the past.

Sharon: I will work my hardest to give my children the best lives possible, and show them that it really is ok to be independant, and chase your dreams. Your path has helped me in my journey probably more than you will ever begin to fathem, and I appreciate your story, and your comments.

Lori: Sorry hun I looked up that addy you gave but didn't get anywhere with it. I probably just don't understand. Thank you for your thoughts and comments.

Elizabeth: yes I do need time for me. Time to find myself. Time for MY goals to become reality. I keep setting small goals each week, showing myself when I put my mind to something I can, and will achieve it to certainty. I appreciate your comments and ideas of life actually. I enjoy reading your postings.

To who said "Some comments": I did not see your words posted except in my update file area, so I cannot see the name at this time, and it is my first time reading what you said. I am guessing from the words that it was Aafes. But no matter who said those words to me I wanted to reply to you also.

Ok: I'm sure my hb did the best he could when it comes to many things. However, This choice for divorce is not coming from him, even a little bit. He did NOT reach any points, he did NOT come to any decision about anything in reguards to this divorce., He did NOT try his best when it came to Naomi, he did NOT work it through within himself. You say HONOR??? you are sadly mistaken my friend. You know what.. I'm just going to leave this subject alone, as I will probably just go way to far. This decision is mine and mine alone. It needs to be done, it IS getting done, and I am not turning back, not now, not ever. I am finished.

This is something I have to do for MYSELF, and MY KIDS. He reached NO point. I reached a point. He still wants to pretend we're married. It is going to be a hard time but I just have to keep my sights set on my dreams, and overlook the bs that will be thrown around because when it is all said and done, I CAN get a divorce, I AM a grown woman, I CAN have a life, and I CAN chase my dreams, and guess what, I CAN do it all with ALL three of my children to raise.

As for dating, wow actually THAT hasn't even crossed my mind. No thank you. I have been there done that with men, not interested. I am determined for two things, and that is: my career choice, and to see my kids through this time in our lives healthily.

Thank you for all of your support each and every one of you. My children are happy, and still have a secure life thus far, and we are all doing wonderfully at this time.

Laura-I am sorry to hear of the divorce, from first hand experience it is not easy. At least it is a decision that you are making and it is not being forced upon you. When decisions are forced upon a person is when we end up with regrets.

Life may not be easy but hang in there. I was a beautician before I had my kids. I loved the work I was able to do and making someone feel good about their appearance. But life stepped in and after my divorce I realized that I needed a more stable life for myself and my children. I went back to school and earned my degree and now I work for the school that I earned my degree from. I love my work, audit this coming week so work brought home, but it is okay.

My kids are with their grandfather in Mississippi and have been there for a week. My daughter is extremely homesick and we talk everday and e-mail. My son says hi but he has a motorcycle back there along with his dog and many Manly things to do and he adores his grandpa, who has been a "father" figure all his life. The mean and hateful thing Dianne has said about my mother hurt very bad, she died in our home, her home too, and the pain is just a raw as that very first day.

Your life will go on, and you will teach your children that independence is great and it does take hard work but it is all worth it. Both of my kids are independent, especially my daughter. Steven's independence will come in time, he is only 14 but it is hard to remember when you look at him. He stands as tall as Gary (his step-dad) 5'10" and is now shaving. When I look at his baby pictures and how small he was back then it is amazing that he has grown so much. Time will fly by and then they are young adults themselves. Right now I am missing my morning hug from him which he has to bend down to give me, I only stand 5'3", and the kiss on top of my head, "hey shorty".

I love the work that I now do helping other parents, it is a release for me and yes the kids help me. I bounce ideas off of my daughter and she helps me in the writing. Steven will help with the design and let me know if he doesn't like something. Teaching both of them to be responsible for their own actions is a hard lesson to learn, but one that does need to be taught. As you will find with your girls, teach them that a man is not needed in their lives to make them whole, they need to be whole themselves first, then they can share their lives with someone that they WANT to share their lives with. Steven has been taught never to treat a girl with disrespect. He has heard, over the speaker phone, how his own biological dad treats me. He says that he doesn't understand how Richard can say such things to me. I don't have an answer for him, or why Richard has never came to see him and his sister, still don't have an answer for that one.

In another 4 years Steven will be 18 and I will be 42 and my husband will be 51. Our job at raising the kids will be done on one level and then we will be moving to another level. It is scaring Stefanie to realize that when she comes back from Grandpa's that she is ready to move to that "Adult" level. But I tell her what my parents always told me, I love you and will always be here for you.

Take care-(I am always just a click away, you know where to find me)

Laura,

I'm sorry to hear that you and your husband are going your separate ways. I'm also sorry to hear that Rob is not stepping up to the plate on his visitation. I can't say I'm surprised by either development but I know this will be a hard road you are about to travel on and you have my sympathy.

When I say you have issues that need to be resolved I mean your issues with Rob and your husband. From the history you gave me it sounds as if you have never actually been alone and sometimes for some people that is needed to find who we really are. Maybe some time by yourself is what you need to realize your self-worth and strength.

I have never minced words with you and always spoken what I felt was the truth. This is not always appreciated and sometimes comes across as rather harsh but frankly I don't believe sugar-coating things really helps much.

I hope for the best for you and your children. I think you have the strength and ability to be a wonderful mother and person. Please don't let yourself be consumed by anger or bitterness. This will carry over to your children.

If you ever need an ear or a sounding board I am here.

Laura,

I'm sorry to hear that you and your husband are going your separate ways. I'm also sorry to hear that Rob is not stepping up to the plate on his visitation. I can't say I'm surprised by either development but I know this will be a hard road you are about to travel on and you have my sympathy.

When I say you have issues that need to be resolved I mean your issues with Rob and your husband. From the history you gave me it sounds as if you have never actually been alone and sometimes for some people that is needed to find who we really are. Maybe some time by yourself is what you need to realize your self-worth and strength.

I have never minced words with you and always spoken what I felt was the truth. This is not always appreciated and sometimes comes across as rather harsh but frankly I don't believe sugar-coating things really helps much.

I hope for the best for you and your children. I think you have the strength and ability to be a wonderful mother and person. Please don't let yourself be consumed by anger or bitterness. This will carry over to your children.

If you ever need an ear or a sounding board I am here.

Laura,

I'm sorry to hear that you and your husband are going your separate ways. I'm also sorry to hear that Rob is not stepping up to the plate on his visitation. I can't say I'm surprised by either development but I know this will be a hard road you are about to travel on and you have my sympathy.

When I say you have issues that need to be resolved I mean your issues with Rob and your husband. From the history you gave me it sounds as if you have never actually been alone and sometimes for some people that is needed to find who we really are. Maybe some time by yourself is what you need to realize your self-worth and strength.

I have never minced words with you and always spoken what I felt was the truth. This is not always appreciated and sometimes comes across as rather harsh but frankly I don't believe sugar-coating things really helps much.

I hope for the best for you and your children. I think you have the strength and ability to be a wonderful mother and person. Please don't let yourself be consumed by anger or bitterness. This will carry over to your children.

If you ever need an ear or a sounding board I am here.

Laura,

I'm sorry to hear that you and your husband are going your separate ways. I'm also sorry to hear that Rob is not stepping up to the plate on his visitation. I can't say I'm surprised by either development but I know this will be a hard road you are about to travel on and you have my sympathy.

When I say you have issues that need to be resolved I mean your issues with Rob and your husband. From the history you gave me it sounds as if you have never actually been alone and sometimes for some people that is needed to find who we really are. Maybe some time by yourself is what you need to realize your self-worth and strength.

I have never minced words with you and always spoken what I felt was the truth. This is not always appreciated and sometimes comes across as rather harsh but frankly I don't believe sugar-coating things really helps much.

I hope for the best for you and your children. I think you have the strength and ability to be a wonderful mother and person. Please don't let yourself be consumed by anger or bitterness. This will carry over to your children.

If you ever need an ear or a sounding board I am here.

Laura, some comments on the new light you are seeing.

Please don't take this a gloating, as it was the last thing I wanted to truly see. I, and others, warned you, many posts ago that what is occurring was likely to happen. Your husband, stepped up initially and developed a loving bond for Naomi. Even with this step, you persisted in DNA testing, visitation, child support, wanting to keep Rob in Naomi's life, etc. etc. etc.

Myself and many others pointed out that this was undermining his actions and your relationship with him. I am sorry to see the situation has finally broken him. Please understand, when a man does the things he initially did, it is a difficult choice, one of responsibility and honor, and the situation is fragile. I believe, eventually the pressure finally won out.

He should accept you and your children as a package deal. All or none. It appears he tried to do this, what he saw was you fighting him all the way. Now, the sum total of these actions, have resulted in this situation.

My point is that there is fault with all three adults involved in this situation. Everyone of you had a part in the end result. Choices made, have consequences. Often for what we believe is right or for the better good we make the choices, taking a chance.

As you have made a decision, I hope you will indeed stick with it. It seems from your posting, that you often make these decisions on spur of the moment, then retract them when the situation takes a temporary change for the better.

If your focus is, as I believe, the well being of your children you need to remain constant. Now, life will be much more difficult being a single parent and all the responsibility falls on your shoulders. Your children need to see steadfast strength and firm, wise decisions from which you do not sway or retreat. What you show them, from this point on, will affect every aspect of the maturity and their decision making as adults.

You made one comment I disagree with:

"The option is only there for the men. The men all get to run away and not pay child support, and never see their own children."

There are also MANY women who abandon their children and leave a father as the single parent. Not visiting or financially supporting their offspring. This has a very deep psychological effect on these children. The choice is always there for either parent to make.

As for the men in your life:


Trust me, this is not all men; and in my opinion taking these actions does not demonstrate manhood. A "man" simply would not do these things.

There are many, many irresponsible boys in men's bodies that do these things. Please don't categorize all men in this way.

A "man" lives by honor, dignity and respect. He protects and supports those he loves. He does not run away from obligations and still believes that giving your word is your bond. A "man" puts those he loves in his life first, over and above his own desires and needs.

I wish you only the best. The road ahead will be rocky and difficult. I point out, that many children from single parents have reached adulthood with stability, maturity and respect for others. This is solely because a single parent (female or male) has realized that once single the sole devotion of their lives is bringing their children to adulthood.

As you have made this decision, one recommendation. Your children will need to see they are your only focus, the only thing important in your life. This will entail not dating, not remarrying etc. etc. A hard decision, but one necessary for their well being.

Hi. I do appreciate you. You seem very genuine in your comments. Yes I have built up some walls these days, so my words are coming out more harsh than usual. I am getting divorced. I myself have filed the paperwork. I did this realizing that my life experiences have always been to please the man and I'm just done living my life for men.

Rob is supposed to be Naomi's father, and of all people I thought he would make a good father, I was wrong again. I'm tired of being wrong when it comes to men.

My husband and myself, have our reasons, but it will not get done unless I do it myself, so I have begun the process of getting divorced. We are still friends, and we are both focusing on our two children we have together, and doing it the best we know how. They do not seem to care at this point, so we must be doing a good job of it so far.

As for Naomi, my husband is a good man to her, however, he is not her father, and ever since the dna testing has come into play (even before that really I just didn't notice) it has taken on a new light around here. In other words, no matter how much I want my husband to be her father and adopt her, that will not happen, and just as I cannot force Rob to be her father, I cannot force my husband either.

I am just finding out that my life is my own (took me long enough) and I can do it (anything I want to, within reason) all by myself, even with three children to raise.

I have made so many mistakes in my life, and I'm sure in someone's opinion this too will be a mistake, but nobody lives my life except me, so therefore mistake or not, this is sometihng I want, and is something I am looking forward to. Life goes on, all I can do is make the best of it. My goals and my dreams have taken on a new form, and I am chasing them with everything that's in me, and you know what? That really is ok.

Thanks for listening-

Ok, my friend, step away from the roller coaster, and lets jump on the tilt a whirl for a minute or two. After that we'll head over to the carousel for a nice quiet ride, maybe a sno-cone and conversation.

Obviously, things are not progressing in a timely manner with Rob. So be it. He's given you the silent treatment for over a year now, he's not going to change now. Remember, in the wild, we are left to raise and protect our own young. We are capable of doing it! Everything in life is a trade off, and perhaps the trade off in not having Rob around is the profound love and strength that you are ready, willing and able to provide.

As for hubby, you're correct, it's a package deal. If he loves, cherishes and desires YOU, then Naomi, as a part of you, is included in that deal. How can he justify going from a loving father, to someone who doesn't want to share his name with the very child he was a loving father to? He was aware of her parentage BEFORE the reconciliation, and now he's changed his mind? GRRRRR, and they make fun of us because of PMS?

If you need a shoulder, or just someplace to vent, look up duffndame at charter dot net. Sometimes just knowing there's someone to listen to you makes all the difference, and right now, it sounds like you need a sounding board with a BIG target area!

I'll be watching for ya, so grab that ice tea, take a deep breath, and know that there are others thinking about you.

If I could start this thread over again I would.. Rob's "visitation" was supposed to start on June 18, this Sunday (Father's day of all days) and of course he has shown no interest, and here it is the friday before.

This man has no desire to be a father. He apparently was lying to me, and himself about wanting to be a father. I kept giving him the benefit of the doubt in this situation (it's not an easy situation for any of us) but he has shown his true colors throughout this whole ordeal.

My husband, (the "father") in everyone else's eyes, is not her father. His connection is with me and his two children, not her. After the dna test in february his whole perspective changed. (so I noticed gradually) There is nothing I can do about his feelings just as there's nothing I can do about Rob's feelings about Naomi.

I'm pretty angry at the both of them. I think one of these men should either 1. adopt her or 2. at least be a part of her life.

But no matter what I want to happen, it seems the truth of the matter is this is the way it will be. How did it end up this way? Yeah I know, my fault. Well, I CAN fix my own doings, and I am in the process of changing my whole life for the better. I won't go into detail, but part of it is a career change, along with other things are in the works.

I met a lady once many many years ago that said to me Laura, you can only rely on yourself, remember that dear. Those words have stuck with me throughout the years, and even though for 10 years I have been blocked (bad childhood choices) I am no longer bound by my past, (one good thing came from having a lawyer) and I can wake up refreshed for the days ahead, focus on my dreams, my goals, and my own life for the first time in my entire life.

This does many things not only for myself but my children as well. They will have a much better life, and I can and WILL show them what it means to be a strong independant woman in today's society. They too will learn to rely on themselves, and not to rely on ANY man or ANYBODY. Hopefully (if I teach them correctly) they will learn this lesson BEFORE they are 30 with 3 children.

Thanks for the advice given. My life is turning towards a much smoother path. (not easy, but worthy) Change is hard, and scary, but givin the chance it will become the butterfly I know it is capable of becoming.

Laura I have been looking at your site, what has happened? You normally don't talk this way?? You sound so mad, and I understand your frustration, cause I have been there myself.

Both of my children are going to be taking my maiden name. That was a decision that they both came upon themselves. Their "fathers" family has always treated them as if they don't exist, and their so called "father" could care a less, you have read my bio on the website.

I don't want to get involved in what is going on between you and your husband because that is your business, but if you need a sounding block I will listen and not judge. Although we don't agree on parenting styles, I'm not judging you, just concerned.

You do what you think is right for your kids. You are their mother and right or wrong the choice is yours.

Yes I am at home for lunch, have a sick kitty (s****.>

Laura when you started this blog you had an up beat yet confused attitude now the hurt and anger is consuming you. If you go back and reread some of this you will see you were told that by persuing this so stong you would put a strain on your marrage. You have gone from a happy life to what appears to be a troubled marrage and a not so happy life.Absolutely nothing good has come from all your efforts.When you write you state it is you and your precious little one against the world but it is not. you have other children that this involves.I'm not tring to put you down only state that if you let this anger consume you it will only continue to hurt you and your family more.I say this because I was angry and then I decided that I needed to take control of MY LIFE and not let my ex upset me and except the fact that I would be the main stability,financial supporter and comfort for my children. YES it is a very hard thing to do but in the end I have been a great mom provided for my children and life is great. If I focused on my ex I can become very bitter but I choose not to.You can not change people the only thing you can do is take care of you first so you will be strong enough to take good care of your children.
I have no doudt that your children are the most important thing to you and it very much appears that you are a good mom don't loose focus.

One last thing what exactly is changing names going to do for anyone again your anger is making decisions for you.Remember you will have to explain this to your daughters later on. Rob's not deserving but your daughter is even if she doesn't know him that name is apart of her as your name now is apart of your other children.Please don't take this as critisism only as advise I really don't want to see you make mistakes out of anger that will hurt you even more later.

GOOD LUCK

Women need to protect themselves in this day and age. I dont think it matters who raises these men. Men know in this day and age, you can say whatever you want to say, and well if it doesn't work out to your liking well then they will just leave. Leave the women stuck with the original plan, but leave. The option is not there for women after they make the plans to have a baby. The option is only there for the men. The men all get to run away and not pay child support, and never see their own children.

I read it in thread after thread. These mothers (most of them) are not keeping the children from the fathers, they are the ones that are all sticking it out, and have the child/ren to raise after the man says yeah I had a change of plans oops. Change of plans? Well, to little to late for the woman who has the child/ren huh?

I have begun to take my life to a new path, and I am very pleased that I can and will be able to make all of this work (even with three children to raise) to get my life where I want it to be. Yes I said I. All my life I have lived my life trying to find love, and trying to work on things, and trying to do the right thing by "daddy" (whichever one) The truth be said, I am living my life for me for the first time in my life, and I am actually happier. Selfish? No, my children are still my priority, but I'm making something of myself, something I've always wanted since I was 12 years old, and I am proud to say I am finally independant, full of life, and will NEVER AGAIN fall for ANY man.

Anyways, yeah I know, big changes from "rob will be there for his baby" REALLY? I don't see it. Haven't seen it since before she was born, and am not going to believe it today or tomorrow or any other day my heart, may want to deceive me and make me believe something so untrue. I'm not wasting my life, not another hour, or day, on anyone but my children, and myself.

I've waited 10 years for this opportunity, and it has come. I am on the path I believe I was meant to be on before ANY man came into my life to "change my plans."

All the best to everyone.. I'm chasing my dreams.

Laura, sounds to me like you still have the hots for Rob.

You ask why society tolerates men like him? Why do we tolerate women that unwisely have babies that they have no means to pay for, then expect society to pay for their upbringing? Why don't we use mandatory sterilization to shut down the baby-machines? It's not like women don't know it's going to happen, yet they continually hook up with loozers, time after time, kid after kid, and then play the violin for sympathy. I'm sick of paying for it. I'll tell you right now, if you don't get over Rob, it will cost you your new husband, and the cycle continues. I'll even go so far as to tell you your new husband is most likely wondering what the hell he's gotten himself into, and is already looking for a better deal.

Laura, sounds to me like you still have the hots for Rob.

You ask why society tolerates men like him? Why do we tolerate women that unwisely have babies that they have no means to pay for, then expect society to pay for their upbringing? Why don't we use mandatory sterilization to shut down the baby-machines? It's not like women don't know it's going to happen, yet they continually hook up with loozers, time after time, kid after kid, and then play the violin for sympathy. I'm sick of paying for it. I'll tell you right now, if you don't get over Rob, it will cost you your new husband, and the cycle continues. I'll even go so far as to tell you your new husband is most likely wondering what the hell he's gotten himself into, and is already looking for a better deal.

Laura, sounds to me like you still have the hots for Rob.

You ask why society tolerates men like him? Why do we tolerate women that unwisely have babies that they have no means to pay for, then expect society to pay for their upbringing? Why don't we use mandatory sterilization to shut down the baby-machines? It's not like women don't know it's going to happen, yet they continually hook up with loozers, time after time, kid after kid, and then play the violin for sympathy. I'm sick of paying for it. I'll tell you right now, if you don't get over Rob, it will cost you your new husband, and the cycle continues. I'll even go so far as to tell you your new husband is most likely wondering what the hell he's gotten himself into, and is already looking for a better deal.

Laura, sounds to me like you still have the hots for Rob.

You ask why society tolerates men like him? Why do we tolerate women that unwisely have babies that they have no means to pay for, then expect society to pay for their upbringing? Why don't we use mandatory sterilization to shut down the baby-machines? It's not like women don't know it's going to happen, yet they continually hook up with loozers, time after time, kid after kid, and then play the violin for sympathy. I'm sick of paying for it. I'll tell you right now, if you don't get over Rob, it will cost you your new husband, and the cycle continues. I'll even go so far as to tell you your new husband is most likely wondering what the hell he's gotten himself into, and is already looking for a better deal.

Neither Rob nor my husband deserve Naomi. It is up to me to make her happy, keep her safe, and make sure these two men do not hurt her. EVER.

She is not good enough now for our last name?!! So, I was giving her Rob's WHY? He doesn't want her either! I will be going back to my maiden name, and then giving her my last name instead. My husband wants to push her away then it's a package deal pal. Rob wants to push her away, she can be cherished and loved by the ONE person who loves and adores her. ME! I hate BOTH of these men. I'm so done with this system, and so done with these losers.

I hope my daughter can forgive me one day for choosing her father, and step father. Neither one of them is worthy of her.

It's me and you against the world precious little one. I really don't care what anyone has to say about this. I know I'm angry go figure.

It's MY life, and OUR children. Do right by them, or stay the hell away for good. BOTH OF YOU. I've reached a boiling point, and I am taking control of MY LIFE. Stay out of my way.

Has anybody noticed this is an epidemic in our society? These men bounce from woman to woman, conceiving child after child, with little to NO repercussions to them. Why? Why is that allowed by us US citizens? Why do we continually tolerate this behavior from our young men? Why is there not further laws to implicate these men for the actions they choose when they walk away from their own children? Why? We all need to change these laws.

I do not know what will work better. (except maybe put them all on a desert island, isolated and alone, like they are doing to their own children) But something needs to be put into place. They should only be allowed a certain amount of children, then they should get a mandatory vesectomy. Women also should get a mandatory hysterectomy after their "allotted" number of children. Maybe they would think twice before they conceive children with eachother. I know I would have thought twice had that been a law. Or maybe I would have already had my children and it wouldn't have been an option to have a child with rob.

Our government can't even get losers as such to pay child support monthly. Have you read some of these threads? MY GOD when does it end!

I will NEVER have more children. EVER.

These losers bounce from woman to woman telling them lies. Telling them all about how THEY would NEVER do that to their children. What a horrible thing to do to a woman and their child. On and on it goes, and we women just keep right on believing them. WHY? We keep looking for love. Quit teaching your young girls that there is love in this world, when there is NO SUCH THING.

I will teach my girls to choose very wisely when it comes to having children, and what men (if there are any out there)say to you JUST to get their own way. Maybe my daughters won't buy the crap I did from men like rob. To be careful of the wolf out there, in sheeps clothing.

Things like: "Flying under the radar" "I see my children in your eyes" "I love you" "I would NEVER do that to my own children" "your crazy if you think I'm giving up my parental rights" "will you have my baby" "I could never leave my children"

Use this site to HURT rob you say? Are you out of your mind! HURT is HARDLY what ROB is. Try looking at my daughter, or myself for one second. WE are the ones HURT here. With each passing year it will only get worse. Thanks jackass.

I don't really have anything important to say in reguards to this case today, I just have some inner feelings I want to write about. I suppose a journal would be a better place to do such things, but I like to type so I am just rambling at this point.

So ya'll can read this or not, it really doesn't pertain to the case with Rob that much with strangers.

I have received a gift in the mail recently from one of my family members that is far away. It is a dreamcatcher. It is amazing to me the connection people truly have without being around one another. The acceptance of an ultimate gift enclosed, was a reminder of factual process, without doubt, and without recognition.

I have an inner feeling of peace lately. It is a nice feeling. I know it doesn't make for good conversation, as when there's no drama, or nothing exciting is happening in people's lives, then people tend to get bored. However as far as I'm concerned, bored is good. Bored means everything in your life is taken care of to the best of your ability at that time, and it's time to relax, and recoup from your journeys recently traveled.

Reflection is a good thing. Reflecting on why, and who, when and how, are all good thoughts to have. I believe in a higher power, a God. I believe I am given my inner feelings from or through this higher source of energy or power. I believe they are always accurate. Recently with this case, I stated I had an inner feeling that Rob would inevitably be there for his daughter. I believe that was given to me as a form of acceptance prior to the compromise, for the purpose of patience, acceptance, and understanding.

Shallowness tends to enwrap my life on the surface, but my inner self is far from it. Nor, are any of us truly the way we portray ourselves to the world around us. We portray ourselves to the world, in a physical natural state, as to avoid persecution for our thoughts, and actions. We are all one in the same when the inner self connects with our surroundings of a higher magnitude of sources, and power leading us to our own enlightenments of truth, and trust.

You feel a sense of connection with your family members and close relationships, be it far away, or close in proximity of one another. I recently have spoken with a friend about death. I know that is not a pleasant topic on the surface, but it is inspiring to know that the feelings are there to enwrap you in peace even before it becomes reality, although we do not understand why or even how. (In a connection with my father, and his mother this became factual reality for both experiences.)

As for this situation with Rob.. It is difficult for two people to put aside their worldly ideals of interactions after creation, but despite the result, the common denominator is factual and worthy. I believe two people who have experienced such a force will ultimately realize the magnitude of this experience, and result of creation, and will rely on the inner source to continue their journey into a realization of peace and understanding, for the sole purpose of harmony. As two does equal one when it is all said and done.

Those who do not fathem this process, or who have not experienced this absolute certainty, will have no knowledge and will ultimately condemn this thought process, and inner feeling. This is to be disreguarded, and put aside to the light of knowledge of peace and understanding, for a harmonic resolution to be achieved to certainty.

Just some inner thoughts for the day.

All the best-

So much for silence, I'm not very good at it.

I talked to my attorney yesterday, and found out about all the ins and outs of this chapter in my life. It was enlightening, and I am very happy that this is the way things can be. So, here's the deal.

As for communication - I'm not required by law to ever speak to rob either. (I do have to inform him of my address if I move) So that works for me as well. I accept that rule, and will leave it alone. It goes both ways.

As for visitation - I submitted a proposed visitation agreement, we'll see what he does with it. My attorney said men that don't want to be fathers will disappear after one or two attempts, so I will know really quickly (without conversation) what his intentions are about parenting Naomi.

As for my ex attorney - She said she about choked when she saw the amount I paid out to my attorney and the results (or non results) acieved.

As for support - I gave up the past year support so rob wouldn't be in debt and unable to catch up. So it starts accumulating in June this year. Hence, he's not a deadbeat as of yet. (well according to the "definition" of deadbeat) Although that was hard to do, because well, I didn't WANT to buy diapers when she was 3 months old either, but somebody had to.

Oh and one more thing - Rob is reibursing me for HIS dna test. I thought that was important to say here, as I made such a fuss about having to pay for it to begin with.

As for the rest, let's just say, it should all be done this month, and so far things are going very well with coming to an agreement. No fights, and all's well. How do you like that result? After all these months I think, I truly think we can finally just relax. No more drama.

The only thing in question in my opinion at this point is does he want to be a father? However, with that only comes the answer time will tell. I thought that question was already answered the day he created a child. I wish I had that luxury of picking and choosing each day whether I wanted to be a mother today or not. Seems a little one-sided for a society to allow, but what do I know.

I'm not going to talk on here anymore. Well I will do my best to keep my thoughts to myself anyway. I believe this is one sided conversation between me and Rob, and my thoughts are my own. Thank you for all your comments and advice.

I did talk to my attorney today and my mind is at ease now.

I hope everything turns out for the best for Naomi. I do love her, and I just worry about her.

Now THAT was advice! Thank you. I don't know if rob would follow suit, but it would be more than likely, which tells me that his attorney is full of s*** when it comes to his "wonderful parenting abilities" and heartfelt desire to be a father.

Actions speak louder than words. I am confused about the no communication rule too Lori, as I have looked up laws, and everywhere it says courts prefer both parents to communicate, and in some instances require them (both parents) to report when they move and so forth to the other parent, as they are both responsible for the child, and the child's well being for life, not just today, or tomorrow, or 2 years from now when his attorney "says it's ok" to talk to one another about our daughter. What a coward, I'm sorry, I don't usually call people names, but come on man... step up and BE a MAN for once in your life. Quit hiding behind your attorney and your mommy and SPEAK. We, let me say that again... WE have a daughter to raise. You want amicable? You want peace? Show it. ohh wait, it's rob I'm talking about.. the never "STEP UP" man. All those pretty words and NO actions. I forgot.

Just to be clear though I didn't say I would send his child support payments back to him. What I did mean, but maybe mispoke, was there is a law that says non-custodial parental involvement or "visitation" reduces the amount owed to child. I presume this was put in place with the support enforcement calculations as a father that is willing to see his child, would be a father that would willingly purchase things for his child while he has her in his care. But again that is just my interpetation of why the reduction of child support amounts if visitation is in place. What I was meaning is if it saves him 10 bucks or 100 bucks a month if he HAS to see his daughter to NOT pay that amount, then I would send that amount back, so he is not out anything, and not obligated to pay that amount if he truly doesn't want a relationship with her, and is only seeing her to save himself some money. She doesn't need to know a man that is only coming around for HIS benefit. That is what I meant.

As for the "no communication rule," that was simply put in place BY ROB and no other party. Case in point: letter under my store door saying once the dna test was done he would have contact with me about Naomi. (paraphrased) All communication lines are still down at this point. His cell number (I recently discovered) has been changed, I got an email back recently, so that's still blocked and/or changed. I don't know if he resides at the same location as when I did a background check on him and found out his home address. (when I tried to get him to meet his daughter way back when, which is what led to the note being left at my store about not contacting him.) Hence the "no communication rule" is simply because I'm not going to chase him down all across his town, as those simple lines of communication can be opened by him when he wants to actually work with me, and not just talk about (via his attorney) working with me.

Until then, it is going to be between attorneys, and again those actions (visitation) do result in that motive.(less child support) I think I'm right in that presumption. I am going to take actions appropriate according to his behavior from here on out. That is what I believe should be done. I don't feel the need to adjust my actions according to his attorney's "pretty words" been there done that already with Rob himself thank you. Yes I am going to go call my attorney, and we'll figure things out more from there. Stand by..

Now THAT was advice! Thank you. I don't know if rob would follow suit, but it would be more than likely, which tells me that his attorney is full of s*** when it comes to his "wonderful parenting abilities" and heartfelt desire to be a father.

Actions speak louder than words. I am confused about the no communication rule too Lori, as I have looked up laws, and everywhere it says courts prefer both parents to communicate, and in some instances require them (both parents) to report when they move and so forth to the other parent, as they are both responsible for the child, and the child's well being for life, not just today, or tomorrow, or 2 years from now when his attorney "says it's ok" to talk to one another about our daughter. What a coward, I'm sorry, I don't usually call people names, but come on man... step up and BE a MAN for once in your life. Quit hiding behind your attorney and your mommy and SPEAK. We, let me say that again... WE have a daughter to raise. You want amicable? You want peace? Show it. ohh wait, it's rob I'm talking about.. the never "STEP UP" man. All those pretty words and NO actions. I forgot.

Just to be clear though I didn't say I would send his child support payments back to him. What I did mean, but maybe mispoke, was there is a law that says non-custodial parental involvement or "visitation" reduces the amount owed to child. I presume this was put in place with the support enforcement calculations as a father that is willing to see his child, would be a father that would willingly purchase things for his child while he has her in his care. But again that is just my interpetation of why the reduction of child support amounts if visitation is in place. What I was meaning is if it saves him 10 bucks or 100 bucks a month if he HAS to see his daughter to NOT pay that amount, then I would send that amount back, so he is not out anything, and not obligated to pay that amount if he truly doesn't want a relationship with her, and is only seeing her to save himself some money. She doesn't need to know a man that is only coming around for HIS benefit. That is what I meant.

As for the "no communication rule," that was simply put in place BY ROB and no other party. Case in point: letter under my store door saying once the dna test was done he would have contact with me about Naomi. (paraphrased) All communication lines are still down at this point. His cell number (I recently discovered) has been changed, I got an email back recently, so that's still blocked and/or changed. I don't know if he resides at the same location as when I did a background check on him and found out his home address. (when I tried to get him to meet his daughter way back when, which is what led to the note being left at my store about not contacting him.) Hence the "no communication rule" is simply because I'm not going to chase him down all across his town, as those simple lines of communication can be opened by him when he wants to actually work with me, and not just talk about (via his attorney) working with me.

Until then, it is going to be between attorneys, and again those actions (visitation) do result in that motive.(less child support) I think I'm right in that presumption. I am going to take actions appropriate according to his behavior from here on out. That is what I believe should be done. I don't feel the need to adjust my actions according to his attorney's "pretty words" been there done that already with Rob himself thank you. Yes I am going to go call my attorney, and we'll figure things out more from there. Stand by..

Now THAT was advice! Thank you. I don't know if rob would follow suit, but it would be more than likely, which tells me that his attorney is full of s*** when it comes to his "wonderful parenting abilities" and heartfelt desire to be a father.

Actions speak louder than words. I am confused about the no communication rule too Lori, as I have looked up laws, and everywhere it says courts prefer both parents to communicate, and in some instances require them (both parents) to report when they move and so forth to the other parent, as they are both responsible for the child, and the child's well being for life, not just today, or tomorrow, or 2 years from now when his attorney "says it's ok" to talk to one another about our daughter. What a coward, I'm sorry, I don't usually call people names, but come on man... step up and BE a MAN for once in your life. Quit hiding behind your attorney and your mommy and SPEAK. We, let me say that again... WE have a daughter to raise. You want amicable? You want peace? Show it. ohh wait, it's rob I'm talking about.. the never "STEP UP" man. All those pretty words and NO actions. I forgot.

Just to be clear though I didn't say I would send his child support payments back to him. What I did mean, but maybe mispoke, was there is a law that says non-custodial parental involvement or "visitation" reduces the amount owed to child. I presume this was put in place with the support enforcement calculations as a father that is willing to see his child, would be a father that would willingly purchase things for his child while he has her in his care. But again that is just my interpetation of why the reduction of child support amounts if visitation is in place. What I was meaning is if it saves him 10 bucks or 100 bucks a month if he HAS to see his daughter to NOT pay that amount, then I would send that amount back, so he is not out anything, and not obligated to pay that amount if he truly doesn't want a relationship with her, and is only seeing her to save himself some money. She doesn't need to know a man that is only coming around for HIS benefit. That is what I meant.

As for the "no communication rule," that was simply put in place BY ROB and no other party. Case in point: letter under my store door saying once the dna test was done he would have contact with me about Naomi. (paraphrased) All communication lines are still down at this point. His cell number (I recently discovered) has been changed, I got an email back recently, so that's still blocked and/or changed. I don't know if he resides at the same location as when I did a background check on him and found out his home address. (when I tried to get him to meet his daughter way back when, which is what led to the note being left at my store about not contacting him.) Hence the "no communication rule" is simply because I'm not going to chase him down all across his town, as those simple lines of communication can be opened by him when he wants to actually work with me, and not just talk about (via his attorney) working with me.

Until then, it is going to be between attorneys, and again those actions (visitation) do result in that motive.(less child support) I think I'm right in that presumption. I am going to take actions appropriate according to his behavior from here on out. That is what I believe should be done. I don't feel the need to adjust my actions according to his attorney's "pretty words" been there done that already with Rob himself thank you. Yes I am going to go call my attorney, and we'll figure things out more from there. Stand by..

Now THAT was advice! Thank you. I don't know if rob would follow suit, but it would be more than likely, which tells me that his attorney is full of s*** when it comes to his "wonderful parenting abilities" and heartfelt desire to be a father.

Actions speak louder than words. I am confused about the no communication rule too Lori, as I have looked up laws, and everywhere it says courts prefer both parents to communicate, and in some instances require them (both parents) to report when they move and so forth to the other parent, as they are both responsible for the child, and the child's well being for life, not just today, or tomorrow, or 2 years from now when his attorney "says it's ok" to talk to one another about our daughter. What a coward, I'm sorry, I don't usually call people names, but come on man... step up and BE a MAN for once in your life. Quit hiding behind your attorney and your mommy and SPEAK. We, let me say that again... WE have a daughter to raise. You want amicable? You want peace? Show it. ohh wait, it's rob I'm talking about.. the never "STEP UP" man. All those pretty words and NO actions. I forgot.

Just to be clear though I didn't say I would send his child support payments back to him. What I did mean, but maybe mispoke, was there is a law that says non-custodial parental involvement or "visitation" reduces the amount owed to child. I presume this was put in place with the support enforcement calculations as a father that is willing to see his child, would be a father that would willingly purchase things for his child while he has her in his care. But again that is just my interpetation of why the reduction of child support amounts if visitation is in place. What I was meaning is if it saves him 10 bucks or 100 bucks a month if he HAS to see his daughter to NOT pay that amount, then I would send that amount back, so he is not out anything, and not obligated to pay that amount if he truly doesn't want a relationship with her, and is only seeing her to save himself some money. She doesn't need to know a man that is only coming around for HIS benefit. That is what I meant.

As for the "no communication rule," that was simply put in place BY ROB and no other party. Case in point: letter under my store door saying once the dna test was done he would have contact with me about Naomi. (paraphrased) All communication lines are still down at this point. His cell number (I recently discovered) has been changed, I got an email back recently, so that's still blocked and/or changed. I don't know if he resides at the same location as when I did a background check on him and found out his home address. (when I tried to get him to meet his daughter way back when, which is what led to the note being left at my store about not contacting him.) Hence the "no communication rule" is simply because I'm not going to chase him down all across his town, as those simple lines of communication can be opened by him when he wants to actually work with me, and not just talk about (via his attorney) working with me.

Until then, it is going to be between attorneys, and again those actions (visitation) do result in that motive.(less child support) I think I'm right in that presumption. I am going to take actions appropriate according to his behavior from here on out. That is what I believe should be done. I don't feel the need to adjust my actions according to his attorney's "pretty words" been there done that already with Rob himself thank you. Yes I am going to go call my attorney, and we'll figure things out more from there. Stand by..

I understand I should not want Rob around Naomi, but what can I do about it? Nothing, so I really dont understand why my feelings of going back and forth worrying for my daughter, and then hoping things will be fine would result in back and forth, and unstable Aafes.

If Rob truly wants a relationship with Naomi then I agree with Elizabeth's statement that once he found out via the dna test he should have begun to work with me, and been right there for Naomi. What about now? Is there much anyone can do to change things now? How am I suppose to resolve this now?

What can I do about it now? Get an attorney that will what, Fight till we drop? I am just trying to figure out Rob's intentions. Yes from all counts it does look like rob's intentions are not for Naomi, if you all agree with that then I would like some advice on what I am supposed to do about that?

If I don't work with him, things get ugly and become a fight, sure I'll get more money that way, but Naomi will also be ripped out of my home much sooner also to go on a visitation day with a "daddy" she doesn't know. So, of course I have to work with him peacefully for Naomi's safety, and comfort.

Elizabeth, you keep telling me I need to work out these issues, yet I don't understand what issues your speaking of. You keep telling me I have unresolved issues, please enlighten me as to what they are, so I can begin to work on them. I'm not getting defensive, I am simply asking for more help. If I'm not mistaken, you have said that you have a decent relationship with your children's father, and I just want the same thing. I want to respect him as a father, and work together as adults. I dont want a bunch of fighting for 18 years of her life. That's not a good life for her to have, so it is in her best interest that I work peacefully with rob is it not? How do I accomplish that? Do you know what I'm thinking.. Leave it alone, run away, and don't look back. (dont take that out of context.. I don't mean actually run anywhere)

Aafes: I don't WANT rob to be a deadbeat, I don't know if he is, or not. I heard the definition of a deadbeat is not paying money for the children you create, so being as I've not seen a dime, I suppose in that definition yes rob would be a deadbeat at this time. I thought we were cooperating with one another, but no communication lines have been open, so that makes me believe that maybe we are not, and yes it was Rob's attorney making him sound like a decent father, who wanted what was best for his daughter. But like Elizabeth said, that is ROB'S attorney not mine. You say Rob is the last person I should want as a role model for my child, ok.. so where does that leave us? If he wants visitation, there's hardly anything I can do to stop that right? That is nice sentiment, but hardly realistic.

If he's willing to work with me, then should I not work with him? OR should I say forget it, and wait for him to file for custody because I keep our daughter from him. There is little I can do about his becoming a "role model" to Naomi at this point if he so desires to do so.

Elizabeth: I completely agree with you 100% about rob waiting to find out for sure. I don't agree with how long that took, and the resistance I had to go through to get that dna test completed, but never the less I do understand him finding out for sure before he became attached to Naomi. I also agree whole heartedly that he should have taken that dna test and at that point there should have been peace between us all. Communication should have been opened, he should have shown an interest in his daugther at that point.

I told my husband just last night, that if you truly love your children, there is NOTHING that can stop you from seeing them. I had a daughter once, who was in the care of her father for a short time, I drove to Washington 3 times a week to see her after working 8 hours, because I wanted to see her, take pictures of her, and bring her gifts. I also was assaulted on more than one occassion from her father when I would go see her, but you know what, to me, it was worth it just to see my baby. Now that she's no longer around (she's deceased) I cherish those days that I went to see her in washington. I would do it all over more often given the chance today.

As for the "harrassment" I'm not harrassing him. I sent only one email to him and it was after I was told from his attorney to make some sort of proposed visitation agreement, and I was simply trying to cut out the middle man, and work with him to figure out this whole visitation thing the first time around. That email was returned to me, as in email blocked. I haven't tried since. As for the third person (when it comes to visitation) that is what I am suggesting for visitation, as we apparently cannot speak to one another properly as adults, but rather play stupid little kid games of "I'm not talking to you right now" It actually reminds me of my two older children when they are mad at one another.

Peaceful resolve is in the best interest of Naomi, is it not?, so that is what I am aiming for. I think him not communicating is telling me a lot, and it seriously scares me to death to think I have to release my baby to a man that will not keep the channels open. So in other words, when he has her for the first time outside of my home, or the third parties home, I have NO clue where she is, or if she's coming back, no. There's where the "kidnapping" comes in Aafes. If you had to send your child with a man that did not know her, would you not be pacing back and forth until they returned back with her? Would you be worried as a parent that this scenario may just happen, or are you one of those types that says it wont happen to me, until it does? Isn't that how all these children end up on the posters I see everyday MISSING last seen with father at such and such?

Rob can sit back and laugh all he wants, God keeps track of that, so that is not my concern, nor does it hurt my feelings.

Thank you for your responses, I do appreciate any help or advice I can get. At this point, I am confused at where we are going, and what is actually going to happen. I am doing my best, and I do have a stable enviornment to raise my daughter. I am just simply her mother, and I worry about things that may effect her life.

And so the drama continues.

Laura, stop and think about the situation. Use your intelligence, not your heart, and be coldly analytical. Weigh the pro's and con's, including 'worst case' scenarios. If you've agreed to give up something that you're entitled to, call your attorney and rescind the offer before it gets out of hand.

Many responders to your posts have tried to point out that this is the position that we feared you would end up in. In other posts, it's been pointed out that visitation for a non custodial parent can be extremely hard to get. However, if you notice, those posters are often in different states than their children, and this makes a HUGE difference.

You and Rob live in close proximity to one another. Often in the situation that has been created here, visitation requests are in retaliation for child support requests. Motives aren't questioned by the court, as it's a biological parents right to see their child, but there are parents out there that seek visitation to spite the other parent. When this happens, the child is the one that suffers. Sure, they have some money in the bank (maybe), since child support is being received, but at what cost emotionally?

Whats this 'no communication' thing? Funny, thats a new one on me. Normally, communication between the parents is highly encouraged, not discouraged. In most courts, its desireable for the parents to talk, come up with agreements, and work towards resolution. This takes all the legal mumbo jumbo out of the equation, and works for what the parents see as right in raising their child.

When doing this, after an agreement has been reached, you petition the court with your motion, it goes on file, and thats the way things stay until a modification is filed. When you use attorneys, you get what you pay for. If your attorney wants to do things one way and you refuse, quite often you find out later that you should have allowed the attorney to do what you were paying him/her for.....to protect the rights of you and yours. If you're not going to listen to them, whats the sense of paying them? Sounds to me like Rob is letting his attorney do what he was paid to do....... and knows that he needs to stay out of the situation until everything's signed and legal. You might change your mind about things if you had the opportunity to talk to him because he might say something to tip his hand.

You 've had a few days to think over what his attorney had to say to you. Now think about this. Attorneys are taught (or have a natural propensity) to tell you what you want to hear in a way that can mean something totally different. When questioned as to what was really said, you then discover that their play on words did indeed give you the impression that it was what you wanted, when in reality, you were mislead and the court can interpret in in another way. They are taught to use your emotions and weaknesses against you. Knowing this, take this into consideration: Rob knows about this site, knows about the post contained.

I get the idea that you're now starting to think that Rob is using visitation as a leverage against child support. So does this mean that you're now willing to drop the case, and walk away? Will doing so appease Rob, and he will follow suit? Sending back his support once it's court ordered isn't the way to do it..... it still looks like he paid, so you're the only one that suffers.

Maybe you need to talk to your attorney........maybe you need to put a hold on any further negotiations/actions for a couple of months, with NO expectations of any kind in regards to Robs actions (and no feeling sorry for his non participation!) and see what happens. Will Rob walk away and let things lie? Will he pursue a course of action, pushing for child support and visitation? Sometimes the best course of action is NO course of action, taking some time to quietly contemplate. Take some time on a carousel ride instead of the roller coaster, and just give yourself a break. Sometimes the answer that eludes you when you're actively seeking it, finds it's way to you when you least expect it.

Laura,

These are my thoughts on the issues and please don't get defensive - I'm not trying to insult you in ANY way I'm just telling you what I would think if it were me in your situation.

I can understand Rob not having contact with his daughter until it was proven she was his. While I don't think it is right I can understand a man not wanting to get attatched to a child only to find out that the child is not his. I've known men this has happened to and it is incredibly painful.

HOWEVER,

The INSTANT Rob found out that Naomi was indeed his daughter he should have been on your doorstep. "Yes I will help financially for her. Yes I want to be part of her life. Yes we can work this out through the proper legal channels. Now may I please see my daughter?"

There is no reason why you should still be blocked on emails, phone calls, etc unless he has some reason to believe you are stalking him or harassing him (not saying you are). IF that is the case then there should be a designated member of the family to handle communications and receive the child for visitation. This sometimes happens in cases where there are harrassment issues or restraining orders.

I still maintain that Rob does not have a genuine desire to be part of this child's life. A lawyer will tell you what he thinks you want to hear to keep his client out of court and get his client what he wants. Keep in mind that is ROB's lawyer, not yours. Of course he will paint a rosy picture of the dad for you - it serves his client's best interest.

Laura, you really need to get your head put back on straight. You HAVE to work out these issues if you ever want to be a good stable mother to your children. All this back and forth will do nothing but build drama and turmoil in your children's lives. It still sounds to me like you have a lot of unresolved issues and until you find some resolution this will not end.

Do I sound like a broken record?

Good luck to you.........

Oh, good grief. It begins again.

Rob is a deadbeat, he's not. He's a good man, he's not. He might want to kidnap Naomi, no he doesn't.

He's cooperating, he's not. He's not the man I thought he was, no he is the man I always thought he was.

We are working it out, we're not. We're going to court, we're not. It's my attorney's fault, it's not.....blah blah blah.

Sometimes, Laura, your posts make me wonder just how stable a home you can provide for a child. You have gone from A to Z and back again, again, and again.

One thing I am almost certain of. Rob is the last person that you should want as a role model for your child. At this point he is probably sitting back and laughing at you, reading these posts, and playing his game with you. Personally, I think he is enjoying taunting you with his silence and watching your ongoing changes of heart.

Girl, wake up and smell the coffee.

I have had a few days or so to think about things, and I am just confused about one thing.

Ok the other day I was on the phone with Rob's attorney right? He made it seem like rob's heart was really big, and that he wanted to know Naomi, and that he'd work with us about everything and so on and so forth.

With that information, I came on here and defended Rob at that time, saying it was my attorney's actions that were the problem with rob having a relationship with Naomi, and maybe things will be good between us all now. To say the least, I was expecting things to change. Blindness.. I think you guessed it Elizabeth, or maybe just hope for peaceful resolve.

I just sent out more paperwork to my new attorney, and the proposed visitation is done on my end. Now I know that his attorney has not yet heard, or read this document, however, it truly doesn't take attorney's in order for an effort to be made.

I understand attorney's (both of us making sure we both understand agreements and so forth) but I do not understand the "no communication" rule at this time. At this time, Rob knows he's Naomi's father, at this time, Rob has not tried once to see her. I do have a concern about that.

Is he watiting for everything to be signed, why? Does he think if he talks to us that I won't sign anything? If that were the case we wouldn't be working with him as we are via attorney's. I wouldn't have fired my attorney, (who wanted to fight in court rather than finding a peaceful resolve) and I would have fought him all the way on every issue.

I would not have given up things that I am legally entitled to, but I did. I have shown that I am not interested in the money, but a relationship to be established between father and daughter. However, I have not seen any response from those actions on his end. Not even a thank you. Not even a hi. Not even a can I see my daughter, or do I have to wait for a "schedule from the courts." Why?

I am beginning to believe that there is no good motive behind rob, and that makes me extremely nervous as Naomi's mother.

I know people don't change overnight.. But I also did not change overnight either, I am not the crazy B@#!H who won't work with him, and is only after his money. I simply don't understand a man who says one thing, via his lawyer, and does another via his actions, I just don't. So what does he want visitation for? To save himself a few bucks? If that is the case, skip it, and I'll send that money back to you rob. She's not a paycheck to me, and she shouldn't be a pay increase to you. If he doesn't want visitation until he starts paying child support then those actions suggest that motive. Right? Am I wrong?

So why on earth would a father that loves his child, or want to get to know his child sit on his a*s and do nothing to make that happen? He hasn't lifted a finger to try to see her as of yet.

Unlike him, my cell number hasn't changed, my email hasn't changed, my residential address has not changed, my place of employment has not changed, my husband's cell number has not changed, our work number has not changed.

So tell me what in the world could he possibly be waiting for? Should parents not have communication between one another when they have a child together? When they are supposedly "working together"? Are we not supposed to be raising Naomi in the best interest of Naomi, not ourselves?

What about his wife or girlfriend, they've been together now for awhile, wouldn't she like to get to know Rob's child as well? Don't you think (right or wrong) that I want to know who my child will be hanging around? Does this girlfriend chain smoke marijuana as well as the last? Does he? Do I have to worry about these things? I am a mother, right or wrong I DO worry about those things, especially since I sat here at my computer drafting up a visitation agreement for this man to take my daughter out of my home. This became very real to me, and I am very uneasy about things.

If these people have such great open hearts, and are willing to work with us then I think that is wonderful, but I am asking now, where is the effort? And I am telling Rob via here, (as I have no other information of a way to communicate appropriately) if money is all you are trying to save, and the relationship with your daughter is the cost, please don't do that to her, I will send that amount back to you, we don't need anyone fake in her life, to save a few bucks in child support payments.

I am more than willing to work with him, but I need to see what his motives are. Silence tells me one thing.. to him, it's about money. You know what I say about that... Take your money, and keep paying for your "acceptable silence" via your lawyer's "advice." You didn't seem to need to ask for his "advice" before you created a child.

This is not willingness, and this is not appropriate behavior for a parent to do to their child. Not in my book, not even a little bit. It's time to turn the page, and write anew.

I don't want to fight, but I also am not going to be the idiot that ends up losing another daughter because I wasn't strong enough to fight for her. This is way to firmiliar territory to me, and I cannot do this the wrong way again.

Thank you Jim for the compliment. However, as I am an intelligent woman I cannot divulge the information of my previous attorney as you requested. Maybe another day, another time, but not at this time.

Thank you for your post.

After a quick scan of the posts here, it sounds like the vast majority of the problems has been your attorney [Laura]. You sound like a very intelligent woman who is sure to find the right man who is loving and caring and will walk with you and want you to walk with him rather than lean or follow.

Good luck and please post who your previous attorney was so that others can stay clear of him/her.

To clear up the agreement. I must not have been very clear about things with the agreement. I have been getting some feedback about our arrangements that lead me to believe I was not clear.

Facts: My attorney was the problem. Without my knowlege, my attorney was not responding, and was laying out demands, rather than trying to work with rob's attorney. I heard absolutely nothing, not a word, from my attorney about the visitation rob wanted. I heard, "he will fight this" and "we need to be prepared for a fight" ect. ect.

The arrangements we have now made are all via HIS attorney. I have recently hired a new attorney to protect my rights also, and just to make sure everything is in place before I sign on that dotted line. I am not looking for a fight. My belief is if things are set up correctly the first time, there will be no misunderstandings that will lead to fights in the future, and therefore be in the best interest of Naomi's future.

Therefore, everything needs to be in writing, and filed via the courts. However, this can be done peacefully between us, and our attorneys, and then just file it in court, so both of us do not start fighting it once it reaches the courts.

Aafes: I am not just agreeing to any random amount he throws out there on the support issue. It is all being done by the calculation of the state via our attorneys. As you well know, there are guidelines that they follow, and we are no exception to that rule.

Here's what happened. I fired my attorney. Rob's attorney found out the same day. (communication via attorney offices) Via a message I recieved from my husband, I called Rob's attorney. I told his attorney that it was becoming a mess, and that my only question is does Rob want anything to do with his daughter? I told him I do not care about the money, I just need to know if he has any desire whatsoever to know his daughter. He stopped me right there.

He gave me his interpetation of rob's intentions..(aka visitation, his frame of mind, and so forth) and frankly I was suprised. I was suprised rob even wanted visitation, but his words reflected care and concern as well. Well, he's either a really good attorney (making me believe false things) or this is truly how Rob feels about his daughter. Only time will tell.

We came to an agreement. I willingly gave up some things. I did this by choice, and was not asked to do so by his attorney,(I believe even to his attorney's suprise, as I was asked are you sure?) or rob. I just think they are stupid laws, as she does have TWO parents who are responsible for her, but that is just me. I'm not going to go into specific detail about any of our agreements, as I do not feel it is appropriate to divulge that information here.

His attorney talked to me about visitation quite a bit, as that was my biggest concern. I was very particular about Naomi taking awhile to warm up to people, and that my only concern is that Naomi has a well established relationship with her father, (however that may come about) before he just shows up one day and takes her out of my home and/or away from people she already knows, and loves.

Support does start accumulating in June. Particular visitation agreements have NOT been established as of yet. (I just have a "ballpark idea" of perspective guidelines) At this time, that is pending my reply. I'm working on it.
I am under the impression from the phone conversation I had with Rob's attorney that this too will not be a fight, and Rob is going to work with us before he just takes her for hours, days, or weeks at a time.

I did try to send rob an email about visitation, however, I am still blocked, so I assume I will just have to figure it out myself, send it to his attorney, and see where it goes from there. Lack of communication between the two of us does make me nervous as I am working on an agreement to release my daughter to him, but I suppose it is understandable until everything is signed. I do think it is best if she knows her biological father, I am just nervous and concerned about the unknowns, what if's, and so forth.

I told my husband if we do not speak at some point it will be that much harder for trust to be established, this is my child we're talking about and he is a stranger to her, and really to me as well, I didn't even know him that long. I knew of him, but didn't truly know him but a year.(not to mention incredibly awkward.) As my husband says, all in good time, he's just crossing his t's and dotting his i's, don't worry. (Yeah.. don't worry.. Right.)

My mom says Rob was very good with the kids, I don't think you have anything to worry about Laura. (whew, right?) then she says, but what do I know, I'm a bad judge of character. (Oh gee, thanks mom..lol)

Nothing has been signed yet, (but things have been agreed upon) it has just taken on a new peaceful approach, and that leaves me with a sense of relief, and hope for a peaceful resolve.

Laura,

Thank you. Your most recent posting gave a much clearer view of your situation and where a lot of your feelings are coming from. I appreciate you taking the time to give us all a more in depth history of your marriage and your early life. Our experiences in our lives tend to go a LONG way toward coloring our views and opinions.

You have lead a very hard life with your husband and I do respect that you have chosen to honor the vow to be with him for all time and work this out. I commented in someone else's thread that I think we today don't take the vows of marriage seriously enough. Being a single mother with two teenagers I realize the value of children having a relationship with both of their parents. I also being divorced realize the seriousness of the vows we all took. While I do not still love my ex I do respect him as the father of my children and will always wish him the best because his happiness and success only benefits our children and their lives. Saying that, I realize that I did not honor the vows I made to him by divorcing him. Did he ever beat me? No. THAT I feel is more than just cause to leave. Did he cheat? Yes. That is why I left and in that did not honor my vows. I felt I was justified to do that because he had not honored his. I explain all this because I want you to know that I have the utmost respect for someone who will stay and work through infidelity. That is you.

I do however still feel that you are quite conflicted on issues in your life. I feel that you will have further complications until you find some resolution.

I hope you do find that and I also hope that Rob's intentions are sincere. But, given the whole situation I remain doubtful that he will show himself to be the "man you thought he was."

I think you have put a lot of hope in men to provide you stability and happiness in life. Remember that this is ultimately YOUR life and the lives of your children and only you can find the happiness and stability you seek. True contentment comes from within ourselves. Outside sources may complement this but they don't make or break it.

Laura,

Thank you. Your most recent posting gave a much clearer view of your situation and where a lot of your feelings are coming from. I appreciate you taking the time to give us all a more in depth history of your marriage and your early life. Our experiences in our lives tend to go a LONG way toward coloring our views and opinions.

You have lead a very hard life with your husband and I do respect that you have chosen to honor the vow to be with him for all time and work this out. I commented in someone else's thread that I think we today don't take the vows of marriage seriously enough. Being a single mother with two teenagers I realize the value of children having a relationship with both of their parents. I also being divorced realize the seriousness of the vows we all took. While I do not still love my ex I do respect him as the father of my children and will always wish him the best because his happiness and success only benefits our children and their lives. Saying that, I realize that I did not honor the vows I made to him by divorcing him. Did he ever beat me? No. THAT I feel is more than just cause to leave. Did he cheat? Yes. That is why I left and in that did not honor my vows. I felt I was justified to do that because he had not honored his. I explain all this because I want you to know that I have the utmost respect for someone who will stay and work through infidelity. That is you.

I do however still feel that you are quite conflicted on issues in your life. I feel that you will have further complications until you find some resolution.

I hope you do find that and I also hope that Rob's intentions are sincere. But, given the whole situation I remain doubtful that he will show himself to be the "man you thought he was."

I think you have put a lot of hope in men to provide you stability and happiness in life. Remember that this is ultimately YOUR life and the lives of your children and only you can find the happiness and stability you seek. True contentment comes from within ourselves. Outside sources may complement this but they don't make or break it.

Laura,

Thank you. Your most recent posting gave a much clearer view of your situation and where a lot of your feelings are coming from. I appreciate you taking the time to give us all a more in depth history of your marriage and your early life. Our experiences in our lives tend to go a LONG way toward coloring our views and opinions.

You have lead a very hard life with your husband and I do respect that you have chosen to honor the vow to be with him for all time and work this out. I commented in someone else's thread that I think we today don't take the vows of marriage seriously enough. Being a single mother with two teenagers I realize the value of children having a relationship with both of their parents. I also being divorced realize the seriousness of the vows we all took. While I do not still love my ex I do respect him as the father of my children and will always wish him the best because his happiness and success only benefits our children and their lives. Saying that, I realize that I did not honor the vows I made to him by divorcing him. Did he ever beat me? No. THAT I feel is more than just cause to leave. Did he cheat? Yes. That is why I left and in that did not honor my vows. I felt I was justified to do that because he had not honored his. I explain all this because I want you to know that I have the utmost respect for someone who will stay and work through infidelity. That is you.

I do however still feel that you are quite conflicted on issues in your life. I feel that you will have further complications until you find some resolution.

I hope you do find that and I also hope that Rob's intentions are sincere. But, given the whole situation I remain doubtful that he will show himself to be the "man you thought he was."

I think you have put a lot of hope in men to provide you stability and happiness in life. Remember that this is ultimately YOUR life and the lives of your children and only you can find the happiness and stability you seek. True contentment comes from within ourselves. Outside sources may complement this but they don't make or break it.

Laura,

Thank you. Your most recent posting gave a much clearer view of your situation and where a lot of your feelings are coming from. I appreciate you taking the time to give us all a more in depth history of your marriage and your early life. Our experiences in our lives tend to go a LONG way toward coloring our views and opinions.

You have lead a very hard life with your husband and I do respect that you have chosen to honor the vow to be with him for all time and work this out. I commented in someone else's thread that I think we today don't take the vows of marriage seriously enough. Being a single mother with two teenagers I realize the value of children having a relationship with both of their parents. I also being divorced realize the seriousness of the vows we all took. While I do not still love my ex I do respect him as the father of my children and will always wish him the best because his happiness and success only benefits our children and their lives. Saying that, I realize that I did not honor the vows I made to him by divorcing him. Did he ever beat me? No. THAT I feel is more than just cause to leave. Did he cheat? Yes. That is why I left and in that did not honor my vows. I felt I was justified to do that because he had not honored his. I explain all this because I want you to know that I have the utmost respect for someone who will stay and work through infidelity. That is you.

I do however still feel that you are quite conflicted on issues in your life. I feel that you will have further complications until you find some resolution.

I hope you do find that and I also hope that Rob's intentions are sincere. But, given the whole situation I remain doubtful that he will show himself to be the "man you thought he was."

I think you have put a lot of hope in men to provide you stability and happiness in life. Remember that this is ultimately YOUR life and the lives of your children and only you can find the happiness and stability you seek. True contentment comes from within ourselves. Outside sources may complement this but they don't make or break it.

Well since I started this I may as well finish it, or at least clarify it.. hopefully.

Elizabeth, I never said I don't appreciate everyone's comments, just that they seem like hasty conclusions to a situation that people do not have all the facts about. It is my fault that you do not have all the facts, but I didn't see the relevance of stating these facts.

Well first let's just go ahead and focus on my marriage for one second.. My marriage in a word rollacoaster. Not for the past year or so (please note: my husband was going to divorce me in the past recent months, for the sole purpose of making me get on assistance to file against rob for child support) but the years change like the wind. Before you all jump on that statement think about this question: what marriage do you actually know right this second that is perfect without problems?

Ours just happens to be infidelity problems throughout the years. and before you say it.. let me clarify..not by me. Well not to begin with.. Obviously there was Rob. (technically I was still married.)

I thought I found an escape in rob, so I tried to take the opportunity. I wasn't strong enough, and it wasn't a good idea anyway, but I was already pregnant by the time I realized it wasn't going to work with Rob. (not all my fault, but I'll take most of the blame on that one, as it was ultimately my body, my choice.) I ran back to my husband. I chose stability, security, and the all to well known path of my husband, rather than facing this world alone again with three children to raise. Wrong? perhaps, perhaps not.

After Rob left the situation - because I would not, or could not (one of the two) leave my husband, my husband and I did seek counseling, and so far (to the best of my knowlege) things have not gone down that road again, which is good for us all as a family. My husband and I feel more stable in our relationship now then before, and it's much easier for me to focus on my children, my goals, and my life, that way. My main focus is now, and always has been my children. I have left jobs for them, (schedule conflicts) left school for them twice, (but still graduated finally) re-routed busses for them ect., when I worked outside of the home. They have, and always will be, MY main focus in life, no matter what I get to do outside of the home or not.

There are still trust issues in my marriage obviously, but with each passing year it gets better and better. I am going back to college now, for the first time since I had my daughter, and I am nervous about it as my lack of presence tends to only become a problem, and I always feel the need to return home. (Things tend to change when I'm not around so much) So far, so good though. Maybe we've both done some growing up over the years. Only time will tell.

Ok about the adoption: When I was 7 months pregnant with Naomi, and Rob moved in with his girlfriend they did text me and said maybe your husband should adopt her. (I am not certain if that came from Rob or from his g/f, but I assumed it was from rob in one way or another) I too thought this would be best, and said I agree that would be for the best. I also believe rob sent an email about "leaving her to my husband" or something along those lines, right before he moved in with his girlfriend. (don't quote me on that, as I am uncertain about the facts there)

My husband did not say one way or the other at that time, (his feelings on the matter of adoption) or at anytime until recently.. When I asked him straight out are you willing to adopt Naomi or not? His reply was No I will not adopt her, but I will raise her with you as my own. This is where I said SHE IS ALREADY MY OWN, and I became upset. yes. He obviously does not view her as I do, but then again he didn't give birth to her, and he has mixed feelings about the situation. I love her very very much, she is my princess, my baby, my koala bear, and I will do what is right by her. Be it, rob in or out of her life, my husband in or out of her life, One thing remains the same.. I am here for her always.

Everytime I tried to stop the case, in other words I would talk to my husband about leaving it alone and moving on with our lives, he would say of course.. I back you in whatever you choose to do.. However, that statement was as good as a heater in the desert because within a day or so I would start hearing "all men know if they play they pay" and "did you hear anything from the attorney?" (aka do you need more money to give to the attorney) In any case.. he obviously was not happy with "letting it go" or backing down. This is where my posts would come in about wondering if it was about the male spieces fighting instead of Naomi's best interest.

Rollacoaster you bet. Staying instead of leaving, leaving, instead of staying, yes.

Nobody will probably understand me whatsoever however the short version is this:

I met my husband when I was 14. I have been with him off and on since then. He dumped me at 7 months pregnant (what is it about 7 months pregnant and the men in my lifetime?) to "go on a date" one day, and we didn't speak for a year and a half or so. This is where the second child comes in. (before the year and a half ends) I met a man (I was late 15 or early 16)who said he could not have children, (why do men say that, when it's not true?) and I had another daughter, all by age 17. That is the daughter who has passed in the care of her father at 9 months old. (as I was not stable enough to raise two children at that time) I did the hardest thing I've ever had to do in my life, and left my daughter in the care of her father. It was only supposed to be for a short time, but when I wanted her back 4 months later, once I established an apartment, I was going through a custody battle, she died in the middle of that battle.. suspicious.. yes. Do you see where panic of custody battles comes into play with me now?

I have actually been in a relationship WITH my husband from the time I was 17. (late 17)(it was really rocky until I was about 19) I got a job, and an apartment, and was raising my baby who by then was about 2 1/2. (my first daughter)
We married as soon as I turned 20. (our daughter was the flower girl) By request from my now husband, (whom I had my first daughter with) I left my job, (on the way to our honeymoon) left my apartment, and moved in with him, his mother, and brother. I was treated like the "trailer trash I am, and came from" from his family the entire span of our relationship thus far. I took this treatment for one year, backed down, and became a prisoner in their home. I left the day I was physically assaulted, that was the end of that living arrangement with or without my husband. I got an apartment and eventually my husband decided to move in with me again. (I was pregnant with our son by this time, and I was just 21) Recentful, maybe a little, but I did choose this path.

I will just stop there as I'm probably boring everyone now.

The long version is so intense, (and can get confusing) that psyciatrists (two of them) have told me I should write a book. (I saw them a couple times to try and deal with the deaths of my family members) So I won't go into detail.

Frankly I just don't appreciate the comments about me or my husband, or my intentions, or rob on this site. They seem very critical.. Expectations are high for people's approval in the decisions I make. Please remember we are people not perfect robots, or angels.

I have made more mistakes in my life than I can count, but I have ALWAYS put my children's feelings first. (at least that was always my intentions, whether or not I actually did at times) I have a good relationship with all three of my living children, and despite what I have put myself through over the years, I can say that I am stronger for it today. Life is life, it's not always easy, but what good thing ever is.

Laura I offer my apology if you felt I was bashing you in any way. I have followed this post as I have a true interest in trying to help by sharing my experiences. I am, as you have guessed, somewhat older than many here, having already raised three children to adulthood.

If Rob offered to surrender his parental rights and your husband refused outright there may be underlying reasons you are not seeing. Your husband, seeing your passion for this issue, may have refused, to allow you the opportunity to obtain the goal you set in the matter. From the history the two of you have, he may have simply wanted to be supportive. I suppose only he knows for sure.

You posted previously of his bonding and love for Naomi. From that information I assumed, apparently improperly, that he felt she was HIS daughter.

It is true we don't know the entire story of your husband taking you back. From what you have posted, you were separated (not divorced) and you had an affair with Rob. In my definition, this is cheating. You are back with your husband, so he did take you back. Believe me, he would not have done so without somehow forgiving you. Things may not seem ideal after your reconciliation, but trust is a difficult thing to build the first time and you can multiply that difficulty times a hundred the second time.

My suprise, in my most recent post, is that you are so receptive to believing Rob has changed. People simply do not change that quickly. It is my contention that Rob had this "change of heart" because he realizes just how easily he will get over on you; opposed to what the court would require of him. Absent attorneys the two of you will reach an agreement, file it with the court, and the court will simply accept it as the two of you acknowledge it is what you each believe is fair.

You stated at one point the funds were for Naomi's future, her education. Consider that a four year degree at a poor university is roughly $50,000.00 tuition at this point in time. This cost increased, exponentially, over 18 years is going to be a huge amount of money.

At the least, the court would utilize formulas to calculate Rob's required payment based on his income, not on what the two of you agree is fair. This is going to provide you a much better shot at providing for Naomi's future than a "sit down" agreement.

Whatever visitation you agree to in your "sit down" agreement will be binding on you. Notwithstanding Rob paying one dime of support, his missing or making excuses for not visiting, making you angry by picking Naomi up late or bringing her home early etc. Visitation and support are separate issues, if he never pays dime one you will be stuck with the visitation you file with the court.

I dealt with these issues as a profession for many years. I have seen every scenario you can imagine. I can categorically state that over 90% of these "sit down" agreements are not fulfilled by both parties. The failure is almost exclusively on the part of the Non Custodial parent.

This is conjecture, but I will state one thing that is very likely to happen. You said Rob really wants a family. At some point Rob will find his "true love" and marry her. They will want children of their own. Trust me, when the new baby comes, Naomi will take a back seat in priority. This will affect her emotionally and mentally, as well as make your life a living hell when she reaches her teenage years. She will learn very quickly to manipulate the situation. Your husband, if still around, will hear a lot of "You can't tell me what to do, you're not my father..." and you will find Rob allowing her to do things you forbid.

You are making the choice. None of us, not one, has to live with the consequences. I wish you the best of luck, and God's blessings. I think you will need them.

Laura,

You stated -

"Elizabeth: Legal is exactly the way things are being done, do you think I'm that stupid as to just agree without it being in writing, and processed correctly?"

Well, lets see....you believe in one night this "Rob Koontz ripoff, dead beat" has now become a caring father that is going to be there for his daughter. I don't think I would say you are stupid per say but blinded does come to mind.

You also stated at one time -

"I am writing on here because I would like feedback as to what I should expect."

and -

"Thank you for any advice anyone can give."

This means to me you are well aware that you are going to get feedback, opinions and other peoples experiences. This means that now complaining that we are critical without knowing all the facts is rather absurd. If there is more to the story then please do tell.

"It is interesting to me that a biological father (rob) has decided to step in after presenting the option to my husband to adopt her and upon his refusal is now taking actions necessary to provide willingly for his daughter on all counts."

Willingly? Oh please. Never do I remember seeing where Rob offered up to your husband to adopt your daughter. Another fact you left out? All I recall was him denying she was his in the first place and refusing to have anything to do with her. Now he's doing it because he knows he'd better pony up before the courts hammer his butt to the wall.

You stated in another thread that you were confused on visitation issues some of us commented on. Let me make it very clear. If a man misses one month of child support he becomes a deadbeat. If he misses visitation and he lives across the country he's got a s****.> I think the issue with you and Rob is pretty clear. From the way you talk about him it sounds as if you still carry a torch for him. You also have made comments that your marriage is not stable (read back through your thread) and then comments that your marriage is solid as a rock. Sounds like trouble is brewing. I could be wrong. Aafes, Lori, Nick could be wrong too. Somehow I doubt it.

You guys are all very critical without even knowing the facts. It is interesting to me that a biological father (rob) has decided to step in after presenting the option to my husband to adopt her and upon his refusal is now taking actions necessary to provide willingly for his daughter on all counts.

That's not good enough for any of you, but it good enough for me. You are all using your own feelings on your own situations in your responses here.

Lori - you have told two different stories, you told me you had 10 children all from the same parents and just by "random" one has olive skin and was different.. I believe the family joke or something along those lines. Now I find out you have 2 from a previous relationship and one that you and your husband don't see because of the mother. So, my opinion of your opinion has changed.

Afas - Not everyone has as big a heart as you do, and not every man decides to adopt the children. My husband had the opportunity to adopt her and he bluntly refused on all counts to do so. So obviously his feelings are not simular to yours and your children. Just one more comment to you also, the whole "cheating" and taking me back statement is completely false. There is more to this story that I have not said as I did not feel the need to bash my husband.. Thank you very much.

Nick: I have not seen a penny. It was stated to me from his attorney, and the papers are being filed as the agreements just took place. Which leads me to

Elizabeth: Legal is exactly the way things are being done, do you think I'm that stupid as to just agree without it being in writing, and processed correctly?

And one final thing I would like to add also to all of your comments - Rob is Naomi's father. YES my intentions are for Naomi's well being and not my own, or Rob's. Think of it what you will, but the simple fact of the matter, is I love my daughter very much, and my intentions are pure of heart for her.

Laura said:
Rob doesn't have a problem paying support at all and it starts in June.

It's June 2nd. How much did he pay?



Laura said: (on 5-7-06 post)
I know that sometimes it appears I care about rob (more than I should) I think it is just me, the way that I am. I am not a mean unforgiving type of person. I believe people all make mistakes. I wanted to give rob the benefit of the doubt. I wanted to give him enough time to come around to being a father. I felt it was not possible for a father to turn his back on his child. I did what I could. It was definately a life lesson, one in which I won't soon forget.


It looks like you forgot.

Oh dear. There are just so many things wrong with this whole situation I don't know where to begin.

As I have prevously said I respect your desire to do the right thing by your daughter. I also respect that you wish for her to know her father. After all of this time and the threats of a custody suit, the denials that she is his, etc. I really don't believe that his motives are pure. You have no custody or visitation arrangement. Good luck if he takes her and refuses to return her. How will you prove you have custody? You have no court ordered support. How will you enforce if he decides he doesn't want to pay after all? Going to court doesn't have to be an ugly battle. At one point when my ex and I were altering child support we worked it out between us and used the same attorney. Neither one of us had to show in court and the whole thing was very friendly - AND LEGAL.

He may at the moment be "the man I always knew you were" but after all this do you REALLY think this is who he is? Please. You are either still in love with this man or you are the most gullible woman I've met in ages.

I think you should consider going back and reading all of the reports you have written. You have been all over the map about your situation, your husband and Rob. I think you are either very confused or very lost. Either way your children (not just Naomi) are going to be the ones to pay the price. You need to figure out where your head and your heart are at and then try to reconcile the two. Aafes is being kind giving your marriage 10 years - I would give it 6 months.

Good luck - seems to me you're going to need it.

And all the heartache and confusion, how easily you forgive and switch gears. In an instant, (you fired your attorney one day, and the next you're close to resolution? LOL) Rob is once again the man you always knew he was.

Throughout this entire thing, your husband has been there. It's been rocky (he left, and was going to file for divorce....),but he's trying with everything he is to do the right thing. While the previous poster generously gave your marriage 10 years, I'm a bit more pessimistic. You obviously still carry a torch for Rob, and your husband just can't compete. Your words, and actions speak out to those of us out here, I can only imagine how loudly they cry out to your husband.

I've tried to give you the benefit of the doubt throughout this time, but I see now that perhaps I should have been a bit more cautious. You've been sooooo adament about Naomi being a part of of Rob's life, knowing Rob's family. In other posts, you make your feelings about visitation well known, how it's all about the children (dad should, at the least, call everynight to tell his kids goodnight? While a nice fairytale, it's not very practical. It DOES, however, give you an opportunity to have daily contact with Rob though, doesn't it?).

Sorry Laura, but I no longer beleive that this was all about Naomi. It's all about you, sitting there angry because you're no longer a part of Rob's life, jealous because he has someone new in his life, brooding because YOU had his child, and how dare he leave you like this. Well, you've got that door back open now, and I quite sure that within a short period of time you'll give Rob the opportunity to once again use you. You might even be able to keep it from your husband for a short period of time, but since he already knows how you feel about Rob, it won't take long. Just remember, the next time hubby shuts himself down emotionally may be the last time.

Good Luck, you're going to need it. It's really hard to have sympathy and understanding for someone who puts themselves in harms way and ends up getting seriously injured. You're an informed adult, so go ahead, move into those shark infested waters. Too bad you didn't think far enough ahead to leave Naomi and your husband on the beach.

And all the heartache and confusion, how easily you forgive and switch gears. In an instant, (you fired your attorney one day, and the next you're close to resolution? LOL) Rob is once again the man you always knew he was.

Throughout this entire thing, your husband has been there. It's been rocky (he left, and was going to file for divorce....),but he's trying with everything he is to do the right thing. While the previous poster generously gave your marriage 10 years, I'm a bit more pessimistic. You obviously still carry a torch for Rob, and your husband just can't compete. Your words, and actions speak out to those of us out here, I can only imagine how loudly they cry out to your husband.

I've tried to give you the benefit of the doubt throughout this time, but I see now that perhaps I should have been a bit more cautious. You've been sooooo adament about Naomi being a part of of Rob's life, knowing Rob's family. In other posts, you make your feelings about visitation well known, how it's all about the children (dad should, at the least, call everynight to tell his kids goodnight? While a nice fairytale, it's not very practical. It DOES, however, give you an opportunity to have daily contact with Rob though, doesn't it?).

Sorry Laura, but I no longer beleive that this was all about Naomi. It's all about you, sitting there angry because you're no longer a part of Rob's life, jealous because he has someone new in his life, brooding because YOU had his child, and how dare he leave you like this. Well, you've got that door back open now, and I quite sure that within a short period of time you'll give Rob the opportunity to once again use you. You might even be able to keep it from your husband for a short period of time, but since he already knows how you feel about Rob, it won't take long. Just remember, the next time hubby shuts himself down emotionally may be the last time.

Good Luck, you're going to need it. It's really hard to have sympathy and understanding for someone who puts themselves in harms way and ends up getting seriously injured. You're an informed adult, so go ahead, move into those shark infested waters. Too bad you didn't think far enough ahead to leave Naomi and your husband on the beach.

And all the heartache and confusion, how easily you forgive and switch gears. In an instant, (you fired your attorney one day, and the next you're close to resolution? LOL) Rob is once again the man you always knew he was.

Throughout this entire thing, your husband has been there. It's been rocky (he left, and was going to file for divorce....),but he's trying with everything he is to do the right thing. While the previous poster generously gave your marriage 10 years, I'm a bit more pessimistic. You obviously still carry a torch for Rob, and your husband just can't compete. Your words, and actions speak out to those of us out here, I can only imagine how loudly they cry out to your husband.

I've tried to give you the benefit of the doubt throughout this time, but I see now that perhaps I should have been a bit more cautious. You've been sooooo adament about Naomi being a part of of Rob's life, knowing Rob's family. In other posts, you make your feelings about visitation well known, how it's all about the children (dad should, at the least, call everynight to tell his kids goodnight? While a nice fairytale, it's not very practical. It DOES, however, give you an opportunity to have daily contact with Rob though, doesn't it?).

Sorry Laura, but I no longer beleive that this was all about Naomi. It's all about you, sitting there angry because you're no longer a part of Rob's life, jealous because he has someone new in his life, brooding because YOU had his child, and how dare he leave you like this. Well, you've got that door back open now, and I quite sure that within a short period of time you'll give Rob the opportunity to once again use you. You might even be able to keep it from your husband for a short period of time, but since he already knows how you feel about Rob, it won't take long. Just remember, the next time hubby shuts himself down emotionally may be the last time.

Good Luck, you're going to need it. It's really hard to have sympathy and understanding for someone who puts themselves in harms way and ends up getting seriously injured. You're an informed adult, so go ahead, move into those shark infested waters. Too bad you didn't think far enough ahead to leave Naomi and your husband on the beach.

And all the heartache and confusion, how easily you forgive and switch gears. In an instant, (you fired your attorney one day, and the next you're close to resolution? LOL) Rob is once again the man you always knew he was.

Throughout this entire thing, your husband has been there. It's been rocky (he left, and was going to file for divorce....),but he's trying with everything he is to do the right thing. While the previous poster generously gave your marriage 10 years, I'm a bit more pessimistic. You obviously still carry a torch for Rob, and your husband just can't compete. Your words, and actions speak out to those of us out here, I can only imagine how loudly they cry out to your husband.

I've tried to give you the benefit of the doubt throughout this time, but I see now that perhaps I should have been a bit more cautious. You've been sooooo adament about Naomi being a part of of Rob's life, knowing Rob's family. In other posts, you make your feelings about visitation well known, how it's all about the children (dad should, at the least, call everynight to tell his kids goodnight? While a nice fairytale, it's not very practical. It DOES, however, give you an opportunity to have daily contact with Rob though, doesn't it?).

Sorry Laura, but I no longer beleive that this was all about Naomi. It's all about you, sitting there angry because you're no longer a part of Rob's life, jealous because he has someone new in his life, brooding because YOU had his child, and how dare he leave you like this. Well, you've got that door back open now, and I quite sure that within a short period of time you'll give Rob the opportunity to once again use you. You might even be able to keep it from your husband for a short period of time, but since he already knows how you feel about Rob, it won't take long. Just remember, the next time hubby shuts himself down emotionally may be the last time.

Good Luck, you're going to need it. It's really hard to have sympathy and understanding for someone who puts themselves in harms way and ends up getting seriously injured. You're an informed adult, so go ahead, move into those shark infested waters. Too bad you didn't think far enough ahead to leave Naomi and your husband on the beach.

Somehow, I am not suprised. Suddenly, Rob is "the man you thought he was".

I have sincere sympathy now for Naomi and your husband. You are starting a fire you will not be able to distinguish. You will willingly give Rob visitation, and despite what he tells you, your husband is and will be hurt. The man has stood by you and Naomi, stepped up to be Naomi's father, bonded with her, and now you will ask him to share HIS daughter with a sperm donor who is suddenly cooperating.

Rob is cooperating to avoid being slammed by a judge, because he knows he is wrong. He has already shown his irresponsibility, resentment and vindictiveness by fighting you until now. Do you actually believe he fell asleep one night and dreamed himself into being a better person?

Despite what you post, what you tell everyone here, what you tell yourself and your husband, this was not about Naomi. This was about you and Rob.

I give your marriage 10 years to be generous, and would be suprised if it lasts that long. But then, you have a history of running from that committment when the going gets tough. You have no idea what your husband has done and how difficult it was for him, not to mention how rare in today's society. He forgave you for cheating, took you back, took responsibility for a child not his and kept silent. You allowed him to bond with Naomi, now you take from him the reward of having a daughter. Now he gets to share with some low life who was not enough of a man to find his own family, but had to try stealing someone else's. Well Rob succeeded. You, at the least are an accessory after the fact. Men may change their climate, but they cannot change their nature.

"The intellect is always fooled by the heart."
-Francois de la Rochefoucauld

This is not a final update - but close.

I just wanted to let you all know that I was wrong about Rob, I was so wrong I feel the need to publicly apologize.

I fired my attorney and within one day negotiations were made. Rob does have a desire to know Naomi, and he's working with me on visitation - so it can be slow enough for Naomi to adjust without trama.

Rob doesn't have a problem paying support at all and it starts in June.

Naomi will get to meet her daddy soon, as we are working together now. Although communication lines still are not open between the two of us directly, I am certain this matter will be resolved properly and in the best interest of Naomi.

I believe Rob does have Naomi's best interest at heart, and for that I am more grateful than anyone will ever know.

Negotiations are almost final, and I will post the very end results when they occur. I believe they will be wonderful for us all. All I can say is Thank you Rob for being the man I always knew you were, and I am sorry for saying anything negative about you on this site. I look forward to the many great years to come with us raising Naomi as we should.

All the best -

Yes, Rob did know you were married when this child was conceived. Apparently (correct or not) Rob had some concerns that there was something going on with your husband at the time and this is the excuse he was using to question paternity of this child. I don't recall ever saying it was all your fault that this situation came about but the fact is if you are willing to break your vows to your husband then who knows if you were willing to stay faithful to Rob? I'm not saying you are some type of cheap tart but I'm saying that in Rob's eyes it was a valid excuse.

Age appropriate visitation really doesn't come into play until the child is school age or if either party lives out of the area. In the eyes of the court (in most states) there is no reason why either parent should not be able to take said child for weekends or weeks at a time unless it were to interfere with school or extra-curricular activities. As long as both parties live in the area and are able to provide transportation to school and events there is no reason to restrict visitation.

As far as his living arrangements the burden of proof most likely is on you. You would have to have some type of proof that his living arrangement is not up to par for visitation to be denied. A two story house, windows, etc. are factors in A LOT of parents lives and they are not put under the microscope to prove that they have baby gates, outlet blocks, etc.

Most courts in the US use the Sigenthaler (sp?)plan for visitation - this entitles the non-custodial parent to one night per week, every other weekend, 6 weeks in the summer and half of all her school vacations as well as alternating holidays (you get Xmas one year, him the next, etc.) This is a standard that is adopted unless the court sees reason to deviate from it. Sadly, the court has to see proof that there is a reason not to give it before it gets taken away. To put it bluntly, he will have to do something wrong before anyone will do anything about it. Sorry to not ease your concerns but this is the plain fact.

Attorneys like to paint rosy pictures of how he can never take custody, he won't get diddly in visitation, etc. but the reality is the court will do what it will do. Anytime you go into court you take a chance. Can he get custody? Most likely not but be prepared, if he is as vindictive as you say you are about to find out what its like to live life in a fishbowl. I have seen with friends and experienced myself what its like to live with an ex that would rather take the kids than pay money. Has my ex ever gotten custody? No. BUT, he has cost me a fortune in attorney fees with all the custody suits he has brought over the years and I have learned that EVERY action I take with regards to my children will be analyzed and dissected. You get used to it eventually but frankly its not fun.

I understand you want Naomi's father to be part of her life. I respect your desire to do the right thing by your child. However, you should have someone out there telling you the truth of how this MAY end up. It's also possible that Rob will just pay up and never exercise visitation or that he will turn into the model father and work well with you and your husband. If not, be prepared - its going to be a heck of a ride.

Yes, Rob did know you were married when this child was conceived. Apparently (correct or not) Rob had some concerns that there was something going on with your husband at the time and this is the excuse he was using to question paternity of this child. I don't recall ever saying it was all your fault that this situation came about but the fact is if you are willing to break your vows to your husband then who knows if you were willing to stay faithful to Rob? I'm not saying you are some type of cheap tart but I'm saying that in Rob's eyes it was a valid excuse.

Age appropriate visitation really doesn't come into play until the child is school age or if either party lives out of the area. In the eyes of the court (in most states) there is no reason why either parent should not be able to take said child for weekends or weeks at a time unless it were to interfere with school or extra-curricular activities. As long as both parties live in the area and are able to provide transportation to school and events there is no reason to restrict visitation.

As far as his living arrangements the burden of proof most likely is on you. You would have to have some type of proof that his living arrangement is not up to par for visitation to be denied. A two story house, windows, etc. are factors in A LOT of parents lives and they are not put under the microscope to prove that they have baby gates, outlet blocks, etc.

Most courts in the US use the Sigenthaler (sp?)plan for visitation - this entitles the non-custodial parent to one night per week, every other weekend, 6 weeks in the summer and half of all her school vacations as well as alternating holidays (you get Xmas one year, him the next, etc.) This is a standard that is adopted unless the court sees reason to deviate from it. Sadly, the court has to see proof that there is a reason not to give it before it gets taken away. To put it bluntly, he will have to do something wrong before anyone will do anything about it. Sorry to not ease your concerns but this is the plain fact.

Attorneys like to paint rosy pictures of how he can never take custody, he won't get diddly in visitation, etc. but the reality is the court will do what it will do. Anytime you go into court you take a chance. Can he get custody? Most likely not but be prepared, if he is as vindictive as you say you are about to find out what its like to live life in a fishbowl. I have seen with friends and experienced myself what its like to live with an ex that would rather take the kids than pay money. Has my ex ever gotten custody? No. BUT, he has cost me a fortune in attorney fees with all the custody suits he has brought over the years and I have learned that EVERY action I take with regards to my children will be analyzed and dissected. You get used to it eventually but frankly its not fun.

I understand you want Naomi's father to be part of her life. I respect your desire to do the right thing by your child. However, you should have someone out there telling you the truth of how this MAY end up. It's also possible that Rob will just pay up and never exercise visitation or that he will turn into the model father and work well with you and your husband. If not, be prepared - its going to be a heck of a ride.

Yes, Rob did know you were married when this child was conceived. Apparently (correct or not) Rob had some concerns that there was something going on with your husband at the time and this is the excuse he was using to question paternity of this child. I don't recall ever saying it was all your fault that this situation came about but the fact is if you are willing to break your vows to your husband then who knows if you were willing to stay faithful to Rob? I'm not saying you are some type of cheap tart but I'm saying that in Rob's eyes it was a valid excuse.

Age appropriate visitation really doesn't come into play until the child is school age or if either party lives out of the area. In the eyes of the court (in most states) there is no reason why either parent should not be able to take said child for weekends or weeks at a time unless it were to interfere with school or extra-curricular activities. As long as both parties live in the area and are able to provide transportation to school and events there is no reason to restrict visitation.

As far as his living arrangements the burden of proof most likely is on you. You would have to have some type of proof that his living arrangement is not up to par for visitation to be denied. A two story house, windows, etc. are factors in A LOT of parents lives and they are not put under the microscope to prove that they have baby gates, outlet blocks, etc.

Most courts in the US use the Sigenthaler (sp?)plan for visitation - this entitles the non-custodial parent to one night per week, every other weekend, 6 weeks in the summer and half of all her school vacations as well as alternating holidays (you get Xmas one year, him the next, etc.) This is a standard that is adopted unless the court sees reason to deviate from it. Sadly, the court has to see proof that there is a reason not to give it before it gets taken away. To put it bluntly, he will have to do something wrong before anyone will do anything about it. Sorry to not ease your concerns but this is the plain fact.

Attorneys like to paint rosy pictures of how he can never take custody, he won't get diddly in visitation, etc. but the reality is the court will do what it will do. Anytime you go into court you take a chance. Can he get custody? Most likely not but be prepared, if he is as vindictive as you say you are about to find out what its like to live life in a fishbowl. I have seen with friends and experienced myself what its like to live with an ex that would rather take the kids than pay money. Has my ex ever gotten custody? No. BUT, he has cost me a fortune in attorney fees with all the custody suits he has brought over the years and I have learned that EVERY action I take with regards to my children will be analyzed and dissected. You get used to it eventually but frankly its not fun.

I understand you want Naomi's father to be part of her life. I respect your desire to do the right thing by your child. However, you should have someone out there telling you the truth of how this MAY end up. It's also possible that Rob will just pay up and never exercise visitation or that he will turn into the model father and work well with you and your husband. If not, be prepared - its going to be a heck of a ride.

You have made the right decision. Your daughters well being and yours is more important.

I wish you the best of luck.

My court is next Tuesday, and that will be my last posting as well.

Best Wishes,
Sharon
FakefordStefvenGetChildSupport.com

I have made a decision to stop talking on this site about our lives out of respect for Rob, and Naomi. I will read all of your comments from time to time, however the only updates I will be providing is an end update when everything is settled.

Thank you for your comments, and thank you for allowing me the opportunity to share my feelings for this long.

Sincerely,

Laura & Naomi

Doesn't it have to be age appropriate visitation? She's only 13 months old. I really hope a judge, or us working together, will make sure the visitation is set up correctly to where she is comfortable and safe. They live in a two story building (to the best of my knowlege) are the windows safe? Is the house baby proofed? Electric outlets covers in place, and so forth? Don't you think these questions are important when it comes to visitation and a 13 month old? How about a crib, toys, diapers, car seat, that is all needed for her, doesn't he have to have those things in place to take her? What about the fact that she simply doens't know him at all? Does that matter to our wonderful government?

I believe it is in the best interest of a 13 month old to be around her mother, (or someone she knows) until a relationship has been established with her father wouldn't you agree? I'm not trying to stipulate anything, I just hope that if visitation is desired at some point the actual care and concern for Naomi's needs comes into play before it is just "logical" for him to take her for the weekend, or weeks at a time as Elizabeth put it.

Thanks, nothing scares a mother more than to think that a perfect stranger gets to take her out of my home for weeks at a time. How about communication, does he have to have an open line of communication when he has her? How long will he have her for? What if he doesn't care about her (as it shows in his absence thus far) and he gets sick of her crying (because that's what she'll do with a stranger) is he going to be able to maintain control, or will he get frustrated with a screaming baby wanting her mommy? These are all things that I believe should be considered when discussing visitation.

I know these are all questions for my attorney. I don't mind him having visitation, I just want to make sure she comes back in one piece is all. (physically & psycologically) There's nothing wrong with that is there? Maybe it should be supervised as he's never been a parent before? Maybe these things can all get worked out with a mediator or something?

Then on the other hand, he's shown no interest in even wanting visitation, so I'm not sure why we are even discussing it. If he wants to see his baby, he knows where she is, all he has to do is try once, and he could see, and know her forever without all this mumbo jumbo of courts, mediators, and lawyers.

As far as I'm concerned yeah he's upsetting me, but I am not the problem here, I am more than willing to now, as always, work with him about these issues if he would just communicate with me about our daughter. The bottom line is we have a daughter to raise, and this strain is not needed between two parents for any reason.

Fighting in my opinion is NOT in the best interest of the child, and that is not something I am causing now is it? It really doesn't have to be this difficult in my opinion, but it is this difficult, and I don't know why.

Establishing paternity was enough to give Rob rights. The difference here being that because of his past actions, he's unlikely to go for visitation if Laura should forego the support. As vindictive as he and his family seem to have been in the past, it seems just as likely that he WILL file for visitation in the event that he has to pay child support. And, as you stated, while in the beginning it may be in a supervised setting, this is short lived, and will soon become regularly scheduled visitation just like everyone else has. In this case, visitation will not be for Naomi, but only to hurt Laura, to strike out at her, and unfortunately, unless something drastic happens, the court in unlikely to intervene at this stage.....it takes something pretty serious to 'stop' visitation rights of a biological parent.

As passionate as the new attorney may seem, there's little she can do should things get rough. Filing motions, going back and forth only tend to anger the court (read judge here), unless accompanied by backup documentation from law enforcement (not charges brought by the other parent, but actual charges being filed) or from protective services with actual proof of wrongdoing. Precedence has been set so many times, one parent accusing the other, that it's now a he said/she said whenever custody and visitation are involved.

In the end, the decision is Laura's as to how she chooses to proceed. Only time will tell what was right, what will work. It's never a good idea to try and force someone to acknowledge that which they choose to ignore, and often backfires. You can't make people feel something that they honestly DON'T feel. So, we're now back to where we've been so many times, with a queasy uneasy feeling about where things are going........

Rob knew I was married when he layed down with me and created this child with me. So therefore putting the blame solely on me and saying he was well within his rights to ask for a dna test because I was married is not appropriate. I did not hide the fact that I was married from Rob, he knew full well the situation, and remember it does take two to have a child. He also could have taken that dna test he was screaming so loudly about a lot sooner than he did. I never said we couldn't take one, in fact I offered to pay for half of it in October of 2005. However, he manipulated the system, and was able to have me pay for his whole test this way. Irritated is hardly the word I would use to describe my feelings on this matter.

I am willing to work with him, and I have NEVER wanted it to go to court. I have been told recently that it should not have to go to court, so I am hoping it still won't end up there. Except filing the appropriate paperwork that is necessary to establish support and visitation. Hopefully we can work together as adults in this situation. Hopefully. I am still not an unreasonable person, and resolve is always what I have been in search of.

Again, I've never denied him his rights as a father. If anything he has wanted to sign away his rights, however, I cannot FORCE my husband to adopt Naomi, so therefore that option is not available to me.

Oh and one more thing.. Just for the record. I don't have the right to skip on the money, it is not my money, it is Naomi's money.

There is nobody WILLING to adopt her (aka my husband) so therefore "signing away rights" doesn't come into play here. That is not my call it is my husband's.

Just so you know.

I never ONCE said he couldn't or didn't have visitation rights.. not once. He has every right to visit his daughter. Everything you said is true. He does have rights to know his daughter yes.. Duh this is what I've been wanting him to do for her whole life, even before she was born. It is not my fault he has yet to meet her, that is his own doing. He is more than welcome to know his daughter at anytime. It is not my right, or desire, to deny him of that no.

All I was meaning is he is out of options about custody. I am no longer worried about him being able to take custody from me, as he keeps threatening. That is what I was protecting, and that is what I no longer have to worry about.

This lawyer seems really nice, and really good. We have a daughter to raise and I'm under the impression the only reason there is a battle is because of the tactics my attorney's office may have used. Rob is upset, she says wouldn't you be? Taking a step back, I realized I would have done the same things Rob has done so far. (with one exception, I would know my child)

So, now we're hopefully going to be able to work as adults and raise this precious child the proper way, yes with him having visitation. We will just have to wait and see what he would like to do. At this point I am just pleased that someone is doing something instead of taking all my money and not doing anything at all, or anything good, to get this matter settled between us.

I don't believe two adults should have to fight over a child they created together. That is not what I have in mind. I hope it will be able to be resolved properly this time around.

Thank you for your comments Elizabeth..

Laura,

You can't have your cake and eat it too. I don't care who your new attorney is, if you collect child support from Rob, he will be entitled to visitation as well. There is a possibility that this visitation will be supervised for a time since he does not know his daughter but after awhile it will be normal unsupervised visitation for weekends or weeks at a time in the summer months.

Unless there is something about Rob to prove he is unfit to have his daughter (and denying her pending paternity is not proof he is unfit) he will have scheduled visitation if he wishes and possibly some form of joint legal or physical custody. Being irritated and hurt because he denied her (no offense but given that you were married he was well within his legal right to do so pending a DNA test) is not just legal cause to deny him visitation or custodial rights.

You need to face reality. You take the child support and share your daughter or you skip the money and walk away. Any attorney who tells you different either knows something about Rob that none of us do or is lying his/her butt off to you. Visitation is his legal right in ANY state and by pushing the child support you will have no choice but to give him ALL his legal rights, not just the ones you want.

Laura,

You can't have your cake and eat it too. I don't care who your new attorney is, if you collect child support from Rob, he will be entitled to visitation as well. There is a possibility that this visitation will be supervised for a time since he does not know his daughter but after awhile it will be normal unsupervised visitation for weekends or weeks at a time in the summer months.

Unless there is something about Rob to prove he is unfit to have his daughter (and denying her pending paternity is not proof he is unfit) he will have scheduled visitation if he wishes and possibly some form of joint legal or physical custody. Being irritated and hurt because he denied her (no offense but given that you were married he was well within his legal right to do so pending a DNA test) is not just legal cause to deny him visitation or custodial rights.

You need to face reality. You take the child support and share your daughter or you skip the money and walk away. Any attorney who tells you different either knows something about Rob that none of us do or is lying his/her butt off to you. Visitation is his legal right in ANY state and by pushing the child support you will have no choice but to give him ALL his legal rights, not just the ones you want.

Laura,

You can't have your cake and eat it too. I don't care who your new attorney is, if you collect child support from Rob, he will be entitled to visitation as well. There is a possibility that this visitation will be supervised for a time since he does not know his daughter but after awhile it will be normal unsupervised visitation for weekends or weeks at a time in the summer months.

Unless there is something about Rob to prove he is unfit to have his daughter (and denying her pending paternity is not proof he is unfit) he will have scheduled visitation if he wishes and possibly some form of joint legal or physical custody. Being irritated and hurt because he denied her (no offense but given that you were married he was well within his legal right to do so pending a DNA test) is not just legal cause to deny him visitation or custodial rights.

You need to face reality. You take the child support and share your daughter or you skip the money and walk away. Any attorney who tells you different either knows something about Rob that none of us do or is lying his/her butt off to you. Visitation is his legal right in ANY state and by pushing the child support you will have no choice but to give him ALL his legal rights, not just the ones you want.

She's all fired up about this case! She says we'll just see him in court. This should have been handled months ago, and my attorney is just milking it, and that's something she hates.

She also says not to worry about custody.. He's NOT getting anywhere with that. She says she'll talk to me tomorrow about the rest of the details, and she'll make sure Naomi is protected thoughout this whole case, and all her life at anytime it's needed.

Thank you Jeff for the referral, she seems absolutely passionate and that's exactly what I need in an attorney with this case. Someone who will give a d**n and protect my baby girl.

Your opportunaties are now gone rob. You had your chance. It is Naomi's protection as a mother that I am interested in maintaining. I tried and tried to work with you. We'll see you in court. You'll be notified soon enough.

It was weird the channels in which led me to this attorney today. I believe God does have great plans for my little baby girl's life.

Here is the honest to God truth. I am scared out of my mind. I am scared that somehow Rob will be able to either 1. get visitation (and not return her) 2. get custody somehow 3.Grandparental visitation and rights & or custody.

Rob's mother sent a letter to me demanding a dna test and then stating once this test was done they WILL get joint custody, unless I make it hard on them, then they WILL get full custody. Please remember she has experience in this type of thing as she adopted rob from her daughter. (I don't know the details, and they aren't important) However, they bash people's names that they don't like, and then somehow they end up with custody. They are mean hurtful spiteful people and NO I don't want Naomi around him or his family. I wanted him to come around in a peaceful way all of this time, but it is not going to happen peacefully. What may happen is we are going to be going through hell for the next 18 years fighting this family from taking Naomi away from us.

I have been threatened three times in one year by him or a member of his family or his friend (which personally I believe was him)

I have been looking up visitation laws like crazy, and I have been looking up custody laws like crazy. I have contacted my attorney on this issue but he doesn't seem to be at all nervous about the threats as I am. But he doesn't love Naomi either, to him I'm just another client. I am so scared I told my husband I didn't want to proceed in court. So, I was trying to come to terms with that, and move forward. She is happy, I am happy, and I'm just afraid that he will in fact follow through on his one statement of "if I have to pay for her I WILL get custody"

People keep telling me well I dont think he can get custody.. But not thinking and KNOWING for a fact is two different things. I am currently seeking a new attorney (with passion) to take on my case and protect Naomi from a man and family that doesn't want her at all except to not pay money for her. If I feel she is protected I will move forward with this case, and not a day sooner.

There are timelines on certain issues with our case, as in collecting child support and who is responsible, nonpaternity actions and so forth. I have to maintain my course of action in order to meet those timelines, however, I do NOT want to go to court until I feel Naomi is protected. Loss of money or not, SHE needs to be safe.

Rob if your reading this.. I cannot believe you would threaten me this way! I wish you would just grow up talk to us like an adult, and come to an agreement with us so we can all move forward. You should communicate with us, so we have an understanding of what your motives and intentions are with all of these issues. Do NOT threaten me again! I LOVE NAOMI, and I will protect her with every action necessary.

Here is the honest to God truth. I am scared out of my mind. I am scared that somehow Rob will be able to either 1. get visitation (and not return her) 2. get custody somehow 3.Grandparental visitation and rights & or custody.

Rob's mother sent a letter to me demanding a dna test and then stating once this test was done they WILL get joint custody, unless I make it hard on them, then they WILL get full custody. Please remember she has experience in this type of thing as she adopted rob from her daughter. (I don't know the details, and they aren't important) However, they bash people's names that they don't like, and then somehow they end up with custody. They are mean hurtful spiteful people and NO I don't want Naomi around him or his family. I wanted him to come around in a peaceful way all of this time, but it is not going to happen peacefully. What may happen is we are going to be going through hell for the next 18 years fighting this family from taking Naomi away from us.

I have been threatened three times in one year by him or a member of his family or his friend (which personally I believe was him)

I have been looking up visitation laws like crazy, and I have been looking up custody laws like crazy. I have contacted my attorney on this issue but he doesn't seem to be at all nervous about the threats as I am. But he doesn't love Naomi either, to him I'm just another client. I am so scared I told my husband I didn't want to proceed in court. So, I was trying to come to terms with that, and move forward. She is happy, I am happy, and I'm just afraid that he will in fact follow through on his one statement of "if I have to pay for her I WILL get custody"

People keep telling me well I dont think he can get custody.. But not thinking and KNOWING for a fact is two different things. I am currently seeking a new attorney (with passion) to take on my case and protect Naomi from a man and family that doesn't want her at all except to not pay money for her. If I feel she is protected I will move forward with this case, and not a day sooner.

There are timelines on certain issues with our case, as in collecting child support and who is responsible, nonpaternity actions and so forth. I have to maintain my course of action in order to meet those timelines, however, I do NOT want to go to court until I feel Naomi is protected. Loss of money or not, SHE needs to be safe.

Rob if your reading this.. I cannot believe you would threaten me this way! I wish you would just grow up talk to us like an adult, and come to an agreement with us so we can all move forward. You should communicate with us, so we have an understanding of what your motives and intentions are with all of these issues. Do NOT threaten me again! I LOVE NAOMI, and I will protect her with every action necessary.

Here is the honest to God truth. I am scared out of my mind. I am scared that somehow Rob will be able to either 1. get visitation (and not return her) 2. get custody somehow 3.Grandparental visitation and rights & or custody.

Rob's mother sent a letter to me demanding a dna test and then stating once this test was done they WILL get joint custody, unless I make it hard on them, then they WILL get full custody. Please remember she has experience in this type of thing as she adopted rob from her daughter. (I don't know the details, and they aren't important) However, they bash people's names that they don't like, and then somehow they end up with custody. They are mean hurtful spiteful people and NO I don't want Naomi around him or his family. I wanted him to come around in a peaceful way all of this time, but it is not going to happen peacefully. What may happen is we are going to be going through hell for the next 18 years fighting this family from taking Naomi away from us.

I have been threatened three times in one year by him or a member of his family or his friend (which personally I believe was him)

I have been looking up visitation laws like crazy, and I have been looking up custody laws like crazy. I have contacted my attorney on this issue but he doesn't seem to be at all nervous about the threats as I am. But he doesn't love Naomi either, to him I'm just another client. I am so scared I told my husband I didn't want to proceed in court. So, I was trying to come to terms with that, and move forward. She is happy, I am happy, and I'm just afraid that he will in fact follow through on his one statement of "if I have to pay for her I WILL get custody"

People keep telling me well I dont think he can get custody.. But not thinking and KNOWING for a fact is two different things. I am currently seeking a new attorney (with passion) to take on my case and protect Naomi from a man and family that doesn't want her at all except to not pay money for her. If I feel she is protected I will move forward with this case, and not a day sooner.

There are timelines on certain issues with our case, as in collecting child support and who is responsible, nonpaternity actions and so forth. I have to maintain my course of action in order to meet those timelines, however, I do NOT want to go to court until I feel Naomi is protected. Loss of money or not, SHE needs to be safe.

Rob if your reading this.. I cannot believe you would threaten me this way! I wish you would just grow up talk to us like an adult, and come to an agreement with us so we can all move forward. You should communicate with us, so we have an understanding of what your motives and intentions are with all of these issues. Do NOT threaten me again! I LOVE NAOMI, and I will protect her with every action necessary.

Laura, just one comment. But first, I was pleased to see your focus shift in the last few weeks into acceptance of the current status of this situation. Naomi, is your only focus and that is appropriate. From your posts you seem to be a good mother.

My comment. You posted: "Maybe it's just in the movies, but ultimately I believe Rob will be there for his daughter."

I think this feeling you have is the desire for Naomi to have her biological father as a part of her life, commendable. I can't predict the future, however, I do not see Rob stepping up to be there for Naomi. He has already proven he has no desire to do so by evading his responsibility, and continuing to do so, until he was forced into the DNA testing, etc. Then he has his "friend" come on this website and post in his defense.

He has forced you into court hearings by his simple refusal to accept responsibility. This man is not a role model you want your daughter to emulate.

Besides, she has a father. Your husband.

Thank you

Sharon - Thank you for your kind words. I have been struggling with proceeding or not in court lately. I don't want to fail my daughter, and then on the other hand I don't know what the court will allow rob to do, or how far they will let him go in being vendictive towards me. Getting the government involved with your family life is never a good idea, as they don't know the meaning of love, or family, only money. If rob truly wants nothing to do with her, then he's not protraying himself as anyone I would want my daughter around anyway. (not even for a day) As I've said before, I've already lost one daughter, and I cannot handle the thought of not having Naomi. It just doesn't seem worth it for a couple hundred bucks each month. Anyone who knows me knows how much I despise money, and what it can do to good people, including me. Money is the root of all evil, as the Bible says.

Even though things didn't turn out as I, or probably anyone had in mind, she was created in love, and I have a responsability to keep her safe, and happy. Truly I just want this all to be over with. I have to make decisions that I simply don't know how to make. The advice I get from my husband is very simular to my lawyer's advice, and sometimes I question the motive behind the actions. Sometimes I think this battle has absolutely nothing to do with Naomi or her well being with some people, but a fight between the male species instead. If that is the case, (which I'm not saying it is, just a fear I have) then I need to be strong enough for my daughter, and do what is best for HER, and let the chips fall where they will.

I don't know what rob's intentions are for Naomi's future. It is apparent he has no feelings towards Naomi now, so therefore he probably will just stay away for life. Then I read a story like Sharon's and I think what if rob comes around when my baby is 17 too? Will my story be much different? Do you really believe a child will want anything to do with her father after she feels abandoned by him? I see it in her story, and I think wow, I truly don't want Naomi to go through anything like that when she's just getting settled on a good path in life, and becoming a young woman. She shouldn't have to go through those emotions at such a young tender age. Her focus should be on graduating from high school, and getting accepted into a great college she chooses.. not whether or not "daddy" cares today.

I still feel Naomi should know who her father is, BUT it is HIS responsability and/or choice, to get to know his daughter, not mine to force him to have a relationship with his daughter. I think well if I push will it make any difference? Do I want to push? Haven't I already pushed enough? What if it makes the wrong kind of difference, and he's just simply not the man I thought he was.

It has definately been a rollacoaster ride, but I am sick now with all the twisting and turning of emotion, and I am ready to be at home, and at peace with myself, and my baby girl. Our lives are above this little battle of he said she said.

I am blessed to have her here with me, and that I wouldn't trade the world for. Yes it's hard, Yes I miss my freedom, yes I tend to get overwhelmed with schedules and guilt for having to work when I want to be near her every minute of everyday. It's not a piece of cake to have a baby. There's a commercial on tv that says having a baby changes everything.. that is so true. It has changed my whole world. But you know what.. that's ok, because the blessings far outweigh the struggles, and my life wasn't so great to begin with obviously. These things just seem to work themselves out somehow. For some reason I know that we are all going to be just fine, and things are the way they are today, because that is the way they are supposed to be. When things change (if they change) it will be because they are meant to change at that time. Forcing things doesn't usually bring good results. Just a conclusion I've come to recently.

I don't know where we're going from here. I have been dealing with turning 30 these days, and wondering how I got here, what roads I chose or didn't choose that brought me here, just stuff that happens when your turning 30 I guess, and your already supposed to be grown up. I feel I should have a handle on life more than I do at this age. I'm not a mean hurtful person, I just wanted Naomi to know her Koontz family. If that can't be, that's ok, there must be a good reason and she'll be just fine.

Again Sharon - all the best of luck with your children. I am sorry they have to go through such pain at such a fragile age. Somehow we are all connected in this world, and maybe Stephanie's pain helped saved my young one from going through the same thing. The choices I have already made, and the choices I have to make each day, I can see the end results clearer now. Your story does help me see things as they may be many years from now with my daughter, and I thank you.

This world is very cruel. Something as an adult I started realizing. It does make me very sad to know that people are capable of leaving behind family. Even in movies that I watch, when there is a strained relationship between parents and their children, the parents always seem to be there ultimately for the child. Maybe it's just in the movies, but ultimately I believe Rob will be there for his daughter. I don't know when or how, nothing in his actions gives me this impression, its just an inner feeling I keep having.

God says I will never leave you or forsake you. I in turn, will never leave or forsake Naomi. It is a strange feeling to love someone more than you love your own life. I wonder if that is truly how God feels about us. Maybe this inner peace he has given me, is to let me know that I am not forsaken, and maybe just maybe he has great plans for my little girl's life. She is here for a reason, a reason bigger than you or I.. this I know.

I know people don't talk the way they feel or think usually, and I know that somehow my being able to say what I am truly feeling only leads others to judge, but it is my release, a way to understand my heart, and a way to find inner peace, or inner strength when I need it the most. I know that I can simply put things on here like Well that blah blah doesn't deserve this or that.. but that blah blah is her father (no matter how you view him) and I am a real person, with real thoughts, and real emotions, and I tend to express them deeper than most. If you've reached the end of this.. maybe you too have the same type of inner feelings, and you also feel the judgemental world glaring back at you if you express them honestly. Thanks for listening -

All the best -

Hi Laura-This is Sharon
I have skimmed over your story. Like mine it is quite involved. Rob is the father, he does need to be held responsible for your daughter, PERIOD. I am not going to make this long and drawn out. You know how I feel about deadbeats, and you know my story.

I wish you and your family all the luck in the world. As I have said before, when you see the smile on her face and as the years pass and she grows and is loved by the people who truely love her, you will have the satisfaction of knowing that what you have went through you did for your daughter. One day she will look at you, as my own children have done, and say "I love you Mom for always being there for me and for fighting for me."
The future is bright, remember that.

Sharon Johnson
fakefordstefvengetchildsupport

Hi Laura-This is Sharon
I have skimmed over your story. Like mine it is quite involved. Rob is the father, he does need to be held responsible for your daughter, PERIOD. I am not going to make this long and drawn out. You know how I feel about deadbeats, and you know my story.

I wish you and your family all the luck in the world. As I have said before, when you see the smile on her face and as the years pass and she grows and is loved by the people who truely love her, you will have the satisfaction of knowing that what you have went through you did for your daughter. One day she will look at you, as my own children have done, and say "I love you Mom for always being there for me and for fighting for me."
The future is bright, remember that.

Sharon Johnson
fakefordstefvengetchildsupport

Hi Laura-This is Sharon
I have skimmed over your story. Like mine it is quite involved. Rob is the father, he does need to be held responsible for your daughter, PERIOD. I am not going to make this long and drawn out. You know how I feel about deadbeats, and you know my story.

I wish you and your family all the luck in the world. As I have said before, when you see the smile on her face and as the years pass and she grows and is loved by the people who truely love her, you will have the satisfaction of knowing that what you have went through you did for your daughter. One day she will look at you, as my own children have done, and say "I love you Mom for always being there for me and for fighting for me."
The future is bright, remember that.

Sharon Johnson
fakefordstefvengetchildsupport

Well the pain is gone, I'm just in bewilderment. Is rob really this stupid? I've never seen someone so arrogant in all my life. Refusing to negotiate? Does he not realize he has it better than most? I am a woman willing to work with him on every level, and he keeps right on throwing opportunaties away, one right after another. What GROUND is he standing firm about? Naomi is a baby, there is NO REASON TO STAND YOUR GROUND with a baby. We're not against Rob, why does he keep this cherade up for so long?

Well - since everyone involved knows what paperwork was sent over to his lawyer I guess I can now state where we are on this case.

Here is what is going to be pushed for in court. I WILL file against him on June 2, 2006. As I'm out of options.

My client will be seeking a judgment from your client as follows:

d. ORS 107.108,

e. ORS 107.106(1)(a)(A).

f. ORS 107.106(1)(a)(B).
g. ORS 107.106(1)(a).

h. ORS 109.155(4).

Obviously I did leave out certain details as a. b. and c. are not there, and detailed information is left out for the privacy of us all. However, this is the "norm" when it comes to gaining child support, medical, and so forth. This and a few other things I will be filing for in court. I don't understand rob at all.

COURT COURT COURT - EVERYTHING GOES TO COURT JUST LIKE HE WANTED.

I asked my husband last night after the kids were in bed if he thinks that Rob ever thinks about his baby. Maybe a commercial comes on with a baby and maybe he thinks about his daughter then? He said to me Naomi is like a character in a book to him, he doesn't know her, so therefore he has no emotional ties to her, like we do, he just simply closes the book. He said having lived this side of things, he would be on the phone right now, be it 10:30 or not. But Rob has never tasted this side of living, so he doesn't know what he's missing.

This is a very long process. This will take awhile to be resolved. Rob has 10 days to negotiate outside of court. Other than that it will all be done in court. Given the history here, it will just go to court. So be it.

I'm tired of the stress about it. I want resolve. I'm sure it will just continue to be the stupid rollacoaster ride it has been, but I'm going to avoid it at all costs, as my business, my personal life, and my own peace of mind has been been invaded by this, and it's doing nobody any good. Including Naomi.

Thank you for your silence rob, it's typical of you. Once your done with a woman you just throw them away, and any offspring you have with them apparently. (unless it's a cat of course.. that makes perfect logical sense..??) Do you still have visitation days with your ex wife and your guys' CAT? Give me a break. I'll try to forget that little story when Naomi asks why you never knew her.

I won't update this for awhile, as there won't be any reason to, (and I'll probably just say things I'll regret) until we go to court or whatever comes of it. I'd like to vindicate rob's name and say he's a great father and he's decided to come around to having a daughter, and be the "daddy" he should have been all along, however THAT would be a lie, so all I can say is this will continue, and I will forever raise and love mine and rob's baby girl by myself. (with what's left of my family of course)

A tornado hit my life, I'm just picking up the pieces.

Everyday I listen to two songs that keep me inspired.
1. Christina Aguleria "Fighter" (for me to continue with my head up, knowing I am making the right decisions, and what REALLY happened here.) and 2. Kelly Clarkson "Because of you" (to remember the pain endured and what my daughter will go through if I don't stay focused on life, and not rob, or those feelings.)

This is not my typical type of music, but I found some inspiration in the words from those songs.

Thanks for listening.. Until the court dates.

OUT -

I just heard back from my attorney. Yes I know it's Sunday, that's the good thing about email.

First I need to clarify that it was not Rob's attorney that did not respond. He did respond, I just didn't hear about it until today.

Second - As of Monday (tomorrow) Rob has exactly 10 days to negotiate outside of court. That's all I have to say about that.

Lori - I did not misunderstand what you were saying. I know you didn't tell me to give Naomi up for adoption. I was just trying to explain why I feel I cannot give up on this case, and have rob sign away his rights. The rights he only exercises when he's threatening me about custody, but none the less, rights just the same.

I was feeling emotionally and financially drained about the whole thing, and sitting on "wait mode" not hearing anything, is not an easy thing to do.

I am pleased with my attorney's response at this point, and I feel my attorney now understands my position VERY CLEARLY, and will not waste anymore time then necessary to get things moving in the right direction, with our without rob's "negotiations."

The only reason we are in "negotiations" at this time, is because like an idiot myself, I keep right on believing the last things that are said from rob.. as in "once the dna test is completed we'll see what mrs. wants to do after that." In fact it was just another ploy for him to postpone his responsabilities towards his daughter.

I wonder if rob is looking for a new job yet. I'll find that one too, trust me on that. OOPS Wrong woman this time huh? Hey Joe, did you "warn" him about the married woman he was seeing previous to me also? Talk about "dirty laundry." I haven't said, or done, near as much as I COULD HAVE.

Lawyer's don't come cheap, and even though I myself am paying an attorney right now, so is rob.(or his enablers) So I will be patient, still try to be understanding, and continue to work the next problem, until resolve is achieved. You don't get to walk away from this baby rob. Not this time.

I truly hope that my last post wasn't misunderstood. I would NEVER suggest that you give up Naomi, only that Rob be made to do so. There is so much love in your family, and Rob is incapable of those same feelings. Naomi deserves to have the love and to know that she is always wanted, loved, cherished UNCONDITIONALLY, a concept lost on Rob and his family, yet one that you have a firm grasp on.

I apologize if my post was interpreted differently. I can't imagine a mother with such love giving up her child, regardless of the feelings of a sperm donor like Rob. ROB doesn't deserve to be able to call Naomi his daughter.... and neither you nor your family should have to continue to shell out financially to attorneys etc so that bonehead boy can continue to manipulate the system. Just my thoughts.......

All I can say about your last post Laura, is:


BRAVO!

That is exactly what rob did to her, I will not walk away from her.

When Naomi was born, I thought about giving her up for adoption. I thought rob doesn't want her, and my life has to completely change now that there's a baby for me to take care of. I thought maybe she would be happier in a family where they could not have children and that was their one desire. I thought all of those things, and then I thought this.. Rob turned his back on her, that does not give me the right to do the same thing. Then, I fell in love with my precious baby girl. Then I realized without her, I would not have been able to have the tumors in my leg removed, and without her, I would still need to take perscription medication that caused irrational intense side effects, and without her, I most certainly would have died. This baby saved my life, I am not about to fail hers.

My thoughts:

First - Turning your back on your child is MORALLY WRONG! Always has been, always will be - no excuses.

Second - He won't send her gifts, cards, toys, letters, shoes, clothes, or even a single picture, (you remember rob, so she can "hang it on her wall, and see you everyday".. blah blah)he won't give her a proper education on his own without a court taking it away from him to give to her. So be it.

This precious little angel walks up to me, and holds my hand out of the blue, she pats me on the back when she gives big strong hugs as she does, she looks back to me as if to ask "mama can I touch that?" before she touches something new on the coffee table. She's so smart. She watches people talk and tries to mimick them talking, she dances to the beat of every song, she points at everything that interests her, she crawls up on the couch, waves, and says night night, she picks up her bottle, closes her eyes, and goes to sleep.

I've never in my life seen a one year old treat a cat as good and gentle as Naomi does.

A few nights ago she and I were sitting outside. She saw a full moon for the first time. She pointed at it and was in awe. Her mouth dropped open, and her eyes became wide. I said that's the moon baby girl, and gave her a kiss on the cheek. She must have stared at that moon for 15 solid minutes, and she's only one year old. If rob wants to miss all of that, and all of her wonderful existance, let him.

I can't give her a hug from him, I can't give her a teddy bear from him, I can't give her a proud pat on the back, or a ride on a bike from him, or a father-daughter relationship from him, but I WILL NOT walk away from the ONLY thing I CAN get for her, from him.

I did not choose his actions, HE chose his actions. He has a daughter, and SHE IS WORTH MORE THAN GARBAGE.

In my kitchen there is a blue garbage can. That garbage can was given to me from someone I used to know. I see now it fits his distorted idea of what his daughter's worth of life is. Everytime I see it, I remember what he feels about his daughter. You sir, are simply an idiot.
(As Aafes so tactfully put it in another thread)

I will not become the problem but by God, I AM THE SOLUTION. MY NAME IS MAMA, HER NAME IS NAOMI.

They can change this course of action at anytime. His g/f, him, his mom, ANY ONE OF THEM could begin to change this course of action with minimal effort. They choose not to. I WILL NOT FAIL MY DAUGHTER, NOT NOW, NOT EVER.

DO I MAKE SENSE TO YOU NOW ROB?

His attorney will respond at some point, but keep in mind he is working every angle their is to help Rob avoid his financial responsibility. That is what he is being paid for.

As for your legal fees, the cost of testing, attorney expenses etc. that is likely money gone. In most support cases the court will not order the respondent to repay these expenses.

Lori's post was on the money. Take her advice to heart. Have Rob's rights terminated and allow your husband to adopt Naomi if he wishes to do so.

Keep in mind getting an order of support is only the first step. Getting him to pay, especially over the long term is much more difficult. In all honesty, you may be lucky to see dime one.

Sometimes you're just better off to take your losses and go on. Stalling, and costing more money is a common thing, especially in court cases such as this. By the time that you finally get child support established, how long is it going to take you to recoup the money you've spent in attorney fees/court costs/testing? Unfortunately, it's often cheaper to drag things out than it is to just come to an agreement.

Given the fact that you and your husband can comfortably support Naomi, maybe the time has come to just move on. Have Rob's parental rights terminated (you want to see him come out of the woodwork.....LOL), have hubby adopt Naomi, and solidify the family that you already have. Some day, some time, Naomi may want to know the facts, which you can give her as you feel she's able to understand. At least in this case, you've taken the high road, and it's quite clear that Rob slinked down the low one. Naomi will have nothing but love and respect for the actions that you were strong enough to take.

Rob (joe), if you're out there (which I'm sure you are, whether you admit it or not), you have no clue what you could lose, not just for now, but forever. Children, while curious, are not stupid, nor overly forgiving. If Laura chooses this course of action, Naomi MIGHT seek you out as an adult, but I can guarantee that it will be only out of curiosity, to see who you are that you could so easily turn away from a child. There will be no love lost, no respect, no desire for an ongoing relationship. True heartache will be yours when you realize that the beautiful young woman walking out that door isn't your daughter, but Laura's and her husband. Yup, you get out of child support, but the true rewards of parenthood are worth oh so much more than any amount of money you may have paid.......

I keep calling my lawyer, and they keep telling me they are waiting for rob's attorney to respond. I just gave them another $500.00 which puts us past 5k we've paid out at this time. I'm getting sick of paying an attorney.

I called SED and they said they still won't take my case yet, so I'm stuck paying this attorney to get child support to be paid for Naomi.

We are trying to do negotiations outside of court with rob, and his attorney. They are not responding. Should I just take it to court? Isn't his attorney supposed to respond by law? Does he even have an attorney anymore? Isn't his lawyer supposed to say he no longer represents rob, if that is the case?

Has he told his attorney not to talk to our attorney? LOL I dont think that's allowed. Ignoring people is something rob may be good at, but it won't work when he is responsible for paying for a child he brought into this world. Eventually he will be made to pay.. it really doesn't matter how long he wants to drag this out, he will still be made to pay.. Or does he really think he can postpone things for 18 (actually 21, as she will go to college) years?

Hi Laura. I haven't read every response in this thread, but as someone who's in a similar situation as you, I'd like to respond.

When my son was conceived, I was separated from my husband. The deadbeat I had unprotected sex with denied my child before and after he was born despite the fact that my son looks and acts like his clone.

I went to court for child support when my son was 2 months old, but because I was married at the time he was conceived, the court automatically presumed that my husband was the child's father, and they could not go after numbskull until my husband was DNA tested first.

Well, I rode home on the subway in tears. My son is so beautiful and so bright and so perfect, it made me so sad that anyone would deny him, much less his biological father.

My estranged husband has since been deported, and there is no way to get him from Pakistan to the US for a DNA test.

Since then, I've tried everything to get numbskull in his son's life. He's financially contributed about $300 to his care (my son's now 4 1/2), has yet to get him a birthday gift, you know, the typical deadbeat dad stuff. Fortunately, my son's grandparents love him very much, and although they're unabale to contribute financially, they do give me (and my current fiance) a much-need break from time to time.

My fiance wants me to go back to court for child support, but the aggravation and emotional pain from the first time were enough. My fiance provides us both with everything we need, and he's a much better role model for my son than deadbeat numbskull.

Your love for Naomi is apparent in everything you write, but so is your hurt over how Rob is treating you and her. I know you want your daughter's father in her life, but why are you putting yourself through so much turmoil? Rob is a jerk, his fiance is a b!#@h, and neither one of them care about Naomi. Do you really want your daughter around such selfish, immature, disgusting people? Does your husband have a problem with being a Dad to Naomi? If not, be happy that she has a positive male role model in her life.

I know he hurt and deceived you, but Robert Allen Koontz is a LOSER and both of you are better off without him. Even if the court makes him pay child support, they can make him be a DAD, and that's what every child needs--a DAD: someone who loves and cares for them unconditionally.

It was hard for me to let someone who claimed he loved me get away with not owning up to his responsibilites, but I do not need the stress. God has blessed my son and I with everything we need, particularly a loving man who is by our side. No woman can force a man to love his child, and no woman should have to. Just let it go, Laura. It's hard to do, but once you do, you'll feel much better, and your precious daughter will too.

When I was finished updating my report today I saw April's comments, and I just want to say I know. I've already come to that conclusion, and I am doing just that.

Yes the child support will be paid, or "ongoing" but that is the only thing I will deal with rob about. If he has something to say he can say it to my attorney.

I'm already there.. Just took me longer than it should have.

Thank you for your response.

Negotiations are in the works with our attorney - I told them to kick it into high gear already, so we can move past this already, and get on with our lives already. This is the way Rob wants it to be, this is the way it will be. We accept. He can drown himself with his "excuses" I hope they consume him in his dreams.

Not to excuse his actions, however, I realize I should not expect anything less than this reaction, as it takes a man to see that he is just purpetuating the cycle. (which WILL stop with Naomi-SHE WILL NOT ABANDON HER OWN)

Well it's about time I was honest with myself as well. I have read through my entire thread, and I have come to realize that I had something to prove more than I even knew. I didn't realize how much of this case was about me clearing my name to his family, nor do I know why it was so important to me that they not think badly of me. In all reality not a single one of them truly matter to us, or how we raise our children.

I realized after reading this entire thread, that I had feelings for rob all this time, not "love" or "be with" or "marital" feelings, but more a connection I thought was real, associated with Naomi, and I didn't want to let go of that, as I felt it would belittle her existance. The abandonment feelings I felt placed upon me by rob, I was passing down to Naomi.

Naomi is a seperate human being, which really has nothing to do with rob. She doesn't know him. She's never met him. He means nothing to her at all. If she saw him on the street she wouldn't look twice. I don't know why I came to a public forum to be justified, or not in my feelings. However, what's done is done, and I do feel better about the situation. Progress perhaps? Healing finally? I sure hope so.

"Dirty laundry" is not what I wanted to do here, however, some of the things that joe said are correct. Most of them were not, but some of them were. I'm not going to air a bunch of garbage here because it really doesn't matter and it is in the past, which is where it should stay, but speak it if you must to those that think they "know the truth"

The TRUTH IS: No excuse in the world will work when it comes time for Rob to "explain" to Naomi why he was nowhere to be found in her life.

The TRUTH IS: Naomi will love and adore her family, the one that stuck by her throughout her life, who watched her learn to walk, recognize the moon, drink from a cup, ride a bike, spit, throw a baseball, ice skate, scuba dive, deal with friends and enemies alike, date, graduate, and become the successful woman that she will become, all without rob in her life.

I'd like to say thank you to everyone who gave me advice throughout all of this, it is appreciated more than you will ever know.

So I will continue to update this report -(sue me)

I have been following this thread and have only made one comment but I must say that if I were Laura I would just stop. STOP all of this. It's not worth it. If Naomi is what's important then stop. Stop frustrating yourself trying to make Rob come around. He's not going to, not when your trying to FORCE him. You have a family, you're not the first woman to have a baby during an affair and have the father not want any part of it and you definately won't be the last. You want closure, that's what I see here. You want Rob to come and say YES, I will be there for Naomi, Yes, I want to be part of her life, Yes I love her. But it's a fantasy, a fantasy that will never come true as long as you keep going at it. Just let it go. If your current husband loves you and cares isn't that all that matters, isn't that all that counts, that Naomi has you both.

You can pursue the child support that's up to you everthing is up to you but come on. Sometimes you just have to let things go. It's been a year. Robs had 365 days to think about this situation. 365 days to decide whether he wants to be in Naomis life, we all know by his actions what he's decided. Let it go girl, let it go. All the stressin' ain't worth it, it's not. You know you love your baby, you know you can do for her without Robs money, you know your baby. Let it go.

I don't know what to say, or how I should be feeling anymore about any of this. I know that rob knows about this site, knows about the dna results, and knows that Naomi is his baby.

My biggest issue with all of this at this time, is the fact that rob has not bothered to see his baby, but instead it is stated here by joe that rob has gone on a new venue of seeking out further court cases to be had with me. This is the third time we've been threatened with a lawsuit by him. Who's after money?

This is a serious problem for me, as a mother. All I wanted was for rob to know his daughter, that's all I've wanted EVER, and this, THIS is how it's going to be handled? Is this the "communication" he said he was going to open after the dna results?

I'm sickened. I'm disgusted at his actions. By the time he's finished pissing us all off, there's going to be so much tension and frustration built up, the family unit won't work at all with him around.

Joe, Dont say rob loved me or our kids, he's shown us otherwise. Love is a word he throws around to grab at heart strings. Rob in my opinion doesn't know the meaning of the word. LOVE - would mean he would LOVE his daughter, and not treat her like this! We are in the process of buying a bigger home, so Naomi can have her very own room - that is how much WE LOVE HER. What has rob done for her? He hasn't even met her!

Everyone was right all this time about this situation - I'm sorry it took this to make me see it.

Rob will always be allowed, and never hindered by us, to meet his daughter, and with hard work, maturity, and dedication to his baby girl, he CAN have a relationship with her - I'm not falling into the trap of getting so angry it's my fault that he had to stay away.. sorry.. If he wants a relationship with his baby, he knows how to reach her. Until then, I say rob who?

FROM A LAW OFFICE:

By definition, slander is the act of publicizing FALSE statements that cause injury to the reputation of one person. Therefore, the plaintiff in a slander case must be a single individual. The most common plaintiffs in a slander case are business professionals, entertainers, and other public figures.

United States slander laws are less plaintiff friendly than the laws of other democratic countries. This is in large part due to the protections offered to US citizens by the first amendment of our constitution. The first amendment guarantees free speech rights to all citizens, and therefore restricts the legal options available to those who are aggrieved by this speech.

NOW CAN WE FOCUS ON OUR DAUGHTER?

I just have one serious question for you "joe"

Did Rob call ALL his friends and tell them the dna results? Why? He forgot to call his daughter. He's not "proud papa" calling all his friends with the results now is he?

Energy is better spent on the present rather than the past.

I certainly hope Rob has not reduced himself to seeking out whether or not I've "commited a crime here." His time would be much better spent contacting his daughter, and working on being a good well balanced father for her life.

The best advice you could possibly give to Rob as his friend, at this time joe, is he has a limited opportunity to do the correct thing in reguards to his baby girl, he should take full advantage of that opportunity.

The way you are talking, and expressing yourself leads me to believe you ARE in fact Rob.

Truly I hope you are not, because if you were, that causes a very serious re-evaluation in this matter.

First, attacking Laura is not making a point. In my own eyes, slander isn't a factor here, what I see is a woman who feels thrown away (by and through Naomi), someone frustrated, hurt and angry.

Ok, if Rob sees,in his own eyes,what he feels as betrayal, then waiting for the results of a blood test are understandable. This doesn't explain his reluctance to get the DNA to start with. If he was truly unsure as to parentage, if he truly thought hubby was dad, then I would think that the first thing he would want to do was get a blood test to find out.

YOU claim that Rob only wanted to have a family. Ok, now he has a daughter, so where is he? If you've truly read through this entire thread, then you know that most of us have discouraged Laura from trying to get Rob involved. Since there is someone (Laura's husband), that seems to have stepped up and become Naomi's father for the past year, there are several of us that think that perhaps she would be better off to leave well enough alone. Laura's stance in this situation however, is that Naomi should know who her birth father is and have the opportunity to interact with him. If Rob truly wanted a family, it seems that Laura is more than receptive to having this happen, so what's the issue now? You are a family man (per your own remarks that Rob wanted a family like yours), so why aren't you encouraging Rob to be involved as Laura wishes? He doesn't need to take a hard line stance and threaten custody proceedings, but instead he should be focusing on nurturing the family that he so wanted. You, Joe, as a 'family' man, and as Robs friend, should be encouraging the father and child relationship that he's missing out on.

In addition, Joe, why would you need to be on this forum defending Rob? Is he not an adult? Does he need you to air more dirty laundry? Are we, the ones who have taken an interest in this thread since the beginning, supposed to think more of Rob because you've come to his defense? I'm sorry, but in my own experience, when someone has to step up to the plate for another adult, it only makes me wonder what that adult is hiding....why can't he defend himself? Does Naomi need the additional grief of finding out one day that her father couldn't step up in his own defense? I think not.

This thread should be about whats best for NAOMI, not Laura or Rob. While we all have our own opinion as to what might be best, based on personal circumstances, the bottom line is that only Laura and Rob can do whats best for Naomi, whether that be child support and no contact, or contact and no child support, or somewhere in between. If more adults worked together for the children, there would be no need for court orders, judges and referees. And, in a perfect world, there would be no reason for adults to be coming to a public forum to see how bad they can portray another human, especially when the human being attacked is only looking for whats best for her child.

Joe, you know the truth as rob has told it to you, that doesn't make it the truth, because as you have said there are two sides to every story.

As for an internet crime.. lol I certainly hope he's not putting all his hopes on that as we still live in a free country and if that were the case 600 and some odd dead beat fathers, and thousands of businesses, could do the same thing against the people who have reported them as well.

If anyone's name is getting slandered here, I'd venture to say it's my own as you have clearly stated I'm a w**re and was sleeping with multiple men. You MUST know that is the TRUTH right?

If he needed a dna test so badly because I'm such a tramp why did it take him a year to get one done? Hello? do you really think you KNOW the TRUTH? Why did I have to get an attorney to get that accomplished, if he wanted one so badly? Please remember my daughter will grow up and she may just read this some day, so you'd be wise to control the lies flowing out of your mouth.

You've already contradicted yourself in saying "I don't think laura or her husband ever thought about divorce." and now your saying my divorce was almost final. Which is it joe?

A week he's had the dna results? Really joe? Think about THAT "must be truthful" statement and then scroll up and take a look at the ACTUAL TRUTH.

You know I didn't start this thread to argue the past with rob's friends, nor to slander rob's name, so if you have nothing further to say that's beneficial to anyone, I'd appreciate your absence on the matter, You know rob, just ask him how that's accomplished.

I was one of the guys who helped Rob move you out of your house and helped put all the stuff in the storage shed that had a gravel driveway.

I'm not Rob, and if Rob does reply he will use his own name! But before he replies he is getting some professional advice. (Possible Internet Crime happen here "Slander of someones name")

Why should Rob pay for child support when he just found out that it was his child a week ago?

I'm Rob's friend that tried to tell him you were bad news! Remember the Dixie Creek Saloon?

When a woman is sleeping with 2 or more men there is nothing wrong with someone getting a DNA test to prove the child is his! I see it all the time on the Maury show and how aften is the man that is said to be the father of the child not? About 50/50.

I've been Robs friend for over 14 years and I know that all he wanted was a family. I warned him about messing around with a married woman, but he told me that the divorce was almost final. I asked him why he was willing to take the chance with her and he said "Because I love her and her kids, I just want to have a family like you."

I was touched that he wanted to have a family like me, but I tried to warn him cause I saw the flags with this woman (IE Married, diviorce not final, almost doesn't cut it).

But Love is blind! Cause when Rob was with Laura he never slept with anyone else, but Laura mulitable times slept with her Exhusband...

So Laura you can think this is Rob but I'm not....

Remember Laura you are responssible for your postings.......


Joe (no I'm not Rob I just know the truth.)
(motorcycle Joe Rob's friend)

Rob, the next time you want to hide behind fictitious names "joe" you may want to remember not to click on the "individual reported" button. (You also forgot to capatalize "God" you know how much I hate that)(although I think I did that once in here too and didn't catch it in time) Be careful swearing to God when your not speaking the whole truth.

So this is seriously how we are going to handle the situation with our daughter? We have to have an online war, and hide behind attorney's, and fictitious names? Your still threatening me.. please stop that.

Ok, being as I have but one chance to say something to you directly I will use my words cautiously.

First of all, I'm sorry. I'm sorry for ever hurting you or making you feel you had to run the other way. I'm sorry for the past, it is something I have grown from, and hopefully we can all move forward from it. Secondly, I would like to become better parents for our child, and work together in peace, and harmony for you to know your daughter.

I love Naomi. She is the most precious little baby girl I have ever seen in my entire life. When I hold her, my heart overflows, I feel tears welling up in my eyes, (and I don't cry) I love her so much. I have never felt so close to anyone in my entire life, and for that I thank you. She has softened my heart, and made me realize just how precious life is.

I know it is important for Naomi to know you. Others may not agree, but I know without a doubt you can and will be a good father to her once you know her.

Court systems are a last resort in my opinion. I believe we can raise our own daughter without someone else telling us when where and what to do. As for child support and other such things, these can all be arranged. I'm sure we can come to a compromise, and understanding of sorts if we just both try. I am the mother of your child, with you in her life or otherwise, this fact remains. I ask that you, and your family please treat me as such.

When the dna test was completed I told my attorney to step back for a minute, and put him on hold. I did this for one reason, to give you time to do what you said in your letter (at the store) and open lines of communication. I was truly hoping you would want to know Naomi once you had the dna results.

It's not about the money to me, it never has been. I want to feel she is safe with you, just as I know she is safe with me. I would like for you to know Naomi, but you need to understand the magnitude of that responsability, and be a good father for her. It will take time, but I believe this, like all things, with a little hard work, and dedication to our daughter, there can be peace for everyone involved. I would like to do the proper adult well mannered things for our daughter to grow up happy, knowing her life is full of people who love and adore her.

She was one yesterday - she is beautiful, meek, and shy. It takes her awhile to warm up to people, she still doesn't hug my mom yet. I hope we can talk more appropriately sometime in the near future. You know how to reach her when your ready.

All the best to you and your family.

Who is joe, and why is he saying things he must have heard from rob himself, as I've heard all of the things you've just said before from rob also. Another person believing the lies he's told apparently.

Custody is the only thing he has to threaten with anymore, and with friends like you I can see why that threat he has used, as him, his mother, and now you a stranger has said. Thanks for that guys.

First of all Rob didn't leave me, but that's beside the point. How many times did you mr stranger help me move? I moved out of my house once.. THAT WAS TO BE WITH ROB.(two strangers helped rob, help me move)(I'd never met them prior to that day, and haven't seen or heard of them since, but I remember who was shoveling out all the money for that move, and that help do you? It certainly wasn't rob now was it.) Is this maybe one of you? Or is this rob himself, hiding behind fictitious names?

Rob and I were supposed to get an apartment together, so I moved out because he kept saying.. I'm not showing him I'm only telling him this is what I want. (what I didn't know at the time was he wanted to move in with me, not me move out. He wanted me to fight for my house in my divorce...by the way I was giving my house to my husband free and clear.. rob didn't like that much now did he) What did rob do with that information, and proof, well the same thing he's doing with the dna test he soooo badly needed, but refused to take for a year. NOTHING. (why would he, he didn't get the house, only the "baggage" right?)

Rob didn't want a family.. he wanted SOMEONE ELSE'S LIFE, and someone else's family - my husband's. I was almost stupid enough to give it to him too.

After Thanksgiving I moved back in with my husband,(which took me exactly one week to figure out Rob's intentions)(Just like the week I just gave him to again "step up".. sounding familiar yet?) and after that I set up visitation for him to come be a part of the pregnancy, and birth, and her life - when I wouldn't let him hold my hand anymore when he came to "be a part of the pregnancy" THAT is when he started flaking off and running to the next available woman - (although my personal belief is he was seeing her while he was still seeing me) get your facts straight Joe. (you didn't help me move back in) My husband did not live with me, he was staying in a motel, and with his mother until I moved out. We have receipts which is why the "presumption law" didn't work in his favor when he tried to yet again throw all his responsabilities on my husband.
Because after all, he couldn't have his life, so why would he want any of it, including the baby right? Now he threatens to fight me for custody for a child he doesn't want? Why? Perhaps child support is coming to her soon? His motives are obvious.

Who called rob's wife? What are you speaking of? I was sent a letter with the word WIFE on it from his family -(I still have the letter) His "wife" also signed her immature yahoo email's to me with her name and then K (as in Mrs. Koontz) so I assumed they were speaking the truth - I should have known better.

I've never called rob's wife, or as you say girlfriend. I've only texted her (last year) until she told me this is between you, rob, and the courts, and not to contact her again. She (like you) and rob, has forgotten one other person - Naomi

I've been through hell and back because of Rob so believe him all you want to everyone else seems to, but don't talk about things you know nothing about, and don't threaten my daughter's well being ever again! It is NAOMI that will have to deal with the horrible feelings rob has placed upon her with his abandonment towards her. It is me that has to swallow my pride, and say I was ignorant and believed him with all his lies about NEVER DOING THAT TO HIS OWN BABIES, and making wise cracks about his "friend" (Joe maybe?) having 13 kids that he doesn't support, or see. Well so much for PRETTY WORDS huh? That's all rob's ever been good at, saying pretty words, and telling lies even I believed.

Threaten all you want to again and again.. I don't need this from you or from rob. If you cannot grow up and move beyond the past and realize what kind of devistation you are putting on our child, then you need to not say anything at all.

The only words that should be coming out of rob's mouth at this time, is I'm sorry, let's move forward, and I'd like to start to know my baby girl. With that, it looks as if with the immaturity level he apparently associates with, I'll have to go through the courts to protect her from all of you.

I truly hope that "Joe", is not Rob, or how Rob feels, for the sake of our daughter, which you all have forgotten to love.

Naomi is not a tool which you can use to hurt me, she's a human being who I love with everything I am. Don't treat her like garbage, and don't threaten me with rob's threats of custody. That's going to be one hell of a fight I guarantee you!

I know there's a dead beat mom's site - I'd like to know where I fit into that catagory. Don't say untrue hurtful things to me in a place I came to express my feelings on a more serious issue than even you realize. Ask yourself these questions before you type anything further mr "joe." How many diapers has rob changed? How many nights has he rocked Naomi to sleep? How many tears has he wiped from her eyes? How many times has he tried to see his baby? How many opportunaties has he had to be a good upstanding father, and what has he done with those opportunaties? How many excuses does he have for why he's never met his own child? Think about it, then if you have thought it through, go ahead and respond so we can all see just how ignorant you truly are.

For starters Rob isn't married so how could she of called his new wife?

The reason Rob left laura is because she kept on going back to her suppose ex husband! Isn't funny how she left that part out, hmm, but then Rob wouldn't sound so evil and now she looks like a victim. She also left out the part where Rob was at her house watching her kids while she was having sex with her "ex"husband at a motel room.

I can't remember how many times I've helped Rob move Laura out of her husbands house, and within a week she would move back in with her husband.

I don't think Laura and her Husband ever thought about divorce,the way she would always go back to him made them more like swingers, rather than fighting couples.

Remember people,there is always 2 sides to a story, so before you judge or slander someone maybe you should get the true facts..

And if I was Rob, I would be printing this all out and fighting for custody.

All Rob wanted was a family, not a flake that kept on going back to her "ex"husband all the time.

So Please Laura don't use this site or your's and Robs kid to hurt Rob just because you couldn't have both men..

I swear to god this is the truth that I typed.

Joe

*There is also dead beat moms, my son has one!*

Again you are in that cycle where you thought process has again changed and she needs or should have the right to "know" her father.

You still fail to see that this child knows her father - it is her husband. Others have posted here that by even considering asking Rob to also be a part of her life is like mixing a recipe for disaster. As your child gets older, should this situation be in place, you will get the joy of experiencing her playing both ends against the middle. As she grows older and more independent it will not be long before your husband begins to hear "YOU'RE NOT MY FATHER!" any time he makes a decision which does not meet her desires. What you are considering is much more damaging to this child than never knowing her father at all.

Laura, I speak from experience on the other side of the spectrum you are living in. I met my wife when she was 19 and I was 21. At the time we met she already had 2 children. These children were both from different fathers and had been abandoned by their fathers.

We married soon after meeting and from the time I first saw these children I felt nothing but love and affection for them. My wife and I discussed my desire to adopt them and decided it was best to wait until they were a little older and had some understanding, a child psychologist agreed at the respective ages of 8 for my son and 6 for my daughter they would have cognizance of what I was asking. When they reached these ages we with the psychologist explained that I wanted to adopt them and that they were able to have some say. At the hearing they both had an opportunity to speak with the judge without me present in the room and when told that I was asking the court for permission to be their Daddy and if they thought this was a good idea the response was "Why, he's already our daddy?"

When I was told this by the judge as she announced her decision I cried. You see in my heart and mind these were ALWAYS my children. I never saw them as step children, adoptive children etc., simply mine. I have raised my son and daughter and their brother who came afterward to adulthood. The older children have always known about the adoption, have never expressed any desire to find natural fathers who abandoned them and never called me anything but Dad.

Think long and hard before you put your daughter through the trauma of having two fathers. It seems your husband is willing to be Dad and loves and reveres your daughter - you could not ask more in this world. Rob on the other hand is resentful, has already shown himself to be of low character and certainly would not be someone any responsible parent would want their child to emulate.

It doesn't matter who my father was; it matters who I remember he was."
- Anne Sexton

"Any man can be a father. It takes someone special to be a dad." ~Author Unknown

Again you are in that cycle where you thought process has again changed and she needs or should have the right to "know" her father.

You still fail to see that this child knows her father - it is her husband. Others have posted here that by even considering asking Rob to also be a part of her life is like mixing a recipe for disaster. As your child gets older, should this situation be in place, you will get the joy of experiencing her playing both ends against the middle. As she grows older and more independent it will not be long before your husband begins to hear "YOU'RE NOT MY FATHER!" any time he makes a decision which does not meet her desires. What you are considering is much more damaging to this child than never knowing her father at all.

Laura, I speak from experience on the other side of the spectrum you are living in. I met my wife when she was 19 and I was 21. At the time we met she already had 2 children. These children were both from different fathers and had been abandoned by their fathers.

We married soon after meeting and from the time I first saw these children I felt nothing but love and affection for them. My wife and I discussed my desire to adopt them and decided it was best to wait until they were a little older and had some understanding, a child psychologist agreed at the respective ages of 8 for my son and 6 for my daughter they would have cognizance of what I was asking. When they reached these ages we with the psychologist explained that I wanted to adopt them and that they were able to have some say. At the hearing they both had an opportunity to speak with the judge without me present in the room and when told that I was asking the court for permission to be their Daddy and if they thought this was a good idea the response was "Why, he's already our daddy?"

When I was told this by the judge as she announced her decision I cried. You see in my heart and mind these were ALWAYS my children. I never saw them as step children, adoptive children etc., simply mine. I have raised my son and daughter and their brother who came afterward to adulthood. The older children have always known about the adoption, have never expressed any desire to find natural fathers who abandoned them and never called me anything but Dad.

Think long and hard before you put your daughter through the trauma of having two fathers. It seems your husband is willing to be Dad and loves and reveres your daughter - you could not ask more in this world. Rob on the other hand is resentful, has already shown himself to be of low character and certainly would not be someone any responsible parent would want their child to emulate.

It doesn't matter who my father was; it matters who I remember he was."
- Anne Sexton

"Any man can be a father. It takes someone special to be a dad." ~Author Unknown

Again you are in that cycle where you thought process has again changed and she needs or should have the right to "know" her father.

You still fail to see that this child knows her father - it is her husband. Others have posted here that by even considering asking Rob to also be a part of her life is like mixing a recipe for disaster. As your child gets older, should this situation be in place, you will get the joy of experiencing her playing both ends against the middle. As she grows older and more independent it will not be long before your husband begins to hear "YOU'RE NOT MY FATHER!" any time he makes a decision which does not meet her desires. What you are considering is much more damaging to this child than never knowing her father at all.

Laura, I speak from experience on the other side of the spectrum you are living in. I met my wife when she was 19 and I was 21. At the time we met she already had 2 children. These children were both from different fathers and had been abandoned by their fathers.

We married soon after meeting and from the time I first saw these children I felt nothing but love and affection for them. My wife and I discussed my desire to adopt them and decided it was best to wait until they were a little older and had some understanding, a child psychologist agreed at the respective ages of 8 for my son and 6 for my daughter they would have cognizance of what I was asking. When they reached these ages we with the psychologist explained that I wanted to adopt them and that they were able to have some say. At the hearing they both had an opportunity to speak with the judge without me present in the room and when told that I was asking the court for permission to be their Daddy and if they thought this was a good idea the response was "Why, he's already our daddy?"

When I was told this by the judge as she announced her decision I cried. You see in my heart and mind these were ALWAYS my children. I never saw them as step children, adoptive children etc., simply mine. I have raised my son and daughter and their brother who came afterward to adulthood. The older children have always known about the adoption, have never expressed any desire to find natural fathers who abandoned them and never called me anything but Dad.

Think long and hard before you put your daughter through the trauma of having two fathers. It seems your husband is willing to be Dad and loves and reveres your daughter - you could not ask more in this world. Rob on the other hand is resentful, has already shown himself to be of low character and certainly would not be someone any responsible parent would want their child to emulate.

It doesn't matter who my father was; it matters who I remember he was."
- Anne Sexton

"Any man can be a father. It takes someone special to be a dad." ~Author Unknown

Thanks for thethoughts. "stalking" "harrassment case" I don't agree with those words. Stalking means following someone around, contacting them constantly, taking pictures, showing up where he eats dinner, ect ect ect.. I really do not believe sending an email on occassion is stalking someone.The reason the email said call if you are going to attend is because the party would not be at my house if that were to occur. It was also an "excuse" per say for him, or a member of his family to take actions to know her, watch her play, and maybe have a hug from the tiny, precious little one, that we brought into this world. None of this is her fault, her own existance is not her fault. Rob's actions are not her fault. My decisions are not her fault. All of this is NOT her fault, and although she's young now, she wont always be, and she will feel the rejection whether we believe it, like it, or not.

Your right, Naomi wouldn't care right now if he, or his family, were to attend her first birthday, but I noticed, her baby album noticed, her hope chest noticed, and she'll notice when she's older. It's another day, another special day he missed.

She won't always be one year old, but she will look back through her childhood. Some people probably wouldn't understand that. I'm not the average person with little to no feelings. I have enormous roots of family value, and although I have made plenty of mistakes with my family, (my husband) I still feel rob's family is an extension of our family, good or bad, and I know nobody understands that. It's not good PR. (or "fake" as I like to call it.) People somehow believe it is ok these days to walk away from family, to disown people at the drop of a hat, related, or otherwise. It is a defense way of living, and not a peaceful way. It's easier to be angry than to put everything else aside and say I forgive you and allow a good relationship to exist. It's easier to take sides, and say he's right or she's right, or wrong. What people fail to understand is there is no right and wrong when it comes to having a relationship between parents and children. If one can exist, is it better to exist.

People are getting used to "do wrong by me once, and it's goodbye forever." People want to be around other people and then they push everyone away, laying blame, and turning a cold shoulder. Not just rob, but many people are that way these days. I read it in other posts as well, many people say my child wants nothing to do with her/his father/mother.. to me that is not fathemable. Where do you think that child learned that behavior, or those feelings? It's a vicious cycle that we all seem to get caught up in, because it hurts less to be angry, and walk away, then to face the truth, and work together.

Look a little deeper, when will the time come when she wants to meet him? Will the time come? Wouldn't you want to know your history, your family? Is this how it's going to be when she's 10, 12, 14, 16, 25? Will he reject her then too? Will she be heartbroken? Will she feel rejected? You know if you talk to a psyciatrist they always say everything starts from your childhood. I just wonder if she will be affected by his actions, or if she just won't care. Even if she "just won't care" it just means she's already built up walls to "not care." Of course she will be affected by his actions, whether we believe it or not, it won't change the way it affects her when she's older if this continues throughout her life.

Granted my daughter is very young, I actually struggled with doing this child support case with her father when she was this old, because she wouldn't understand. However, I thought now was better than having her go through this by my side and understand his rejection each and every day of her life. She'll still feel it when she's older, but maybe, just maybe, I can take some of that off of her shoulders by doing this when she's so young. That is why we are going through this now, and not 5 or 10 years from now.

Can I protect her at an older age of this rejection if this continues for years from her father? Should I just never mention his name, and let everyone "pretend" for years? This should be a "dirty little secret" we all keep? No I do not agree with that. She means more to me than that. That would strip her from her innerself being full of life, and love, and happiness. There is something about knowing the truth that makes people able to understand, work it out within themselves, and move forward with their decisions, and life, not carying the burden of hatred or rejection. I don't want walls built up within my daughter at an early age. I'm sure she'll gain those all to well without her father starting those walls within her early in life.

I think about my half brother.. he didn't know anything about his real dad or family until he was 16. What was the first thing he did with that information? He went on a journey to find his family. He found an aunt, his grandparents, and his father's grave. He turned away from my father so fast because he felt betrayed, and lied to all those years. It didn't matter what my father had done for him growing up, it didn't matter that he raised him, and loved him. He felt lied to. He didn't even know who he was, or where he came from, and he had to know. It was hard watching him go through that. I think it will be even harder to watch my own child go through that same thing.

I know rob needs time to grow. I know he's running away from responsability. I worry about him getting into her life, and then I worry about him not getting into her life. I think about the effects of both sides of that.

The case is still ongoing, and that in itself may cause him to lay blame and not ever see her. I struggle everyday with continuing this case or not.

I have a friend who has a daughter who's now 13, who has a father she's never met. She gets child support from him and with that the daughter gets money to spend on herself an "allowance." She spends his money, and has "shopping days" and loves it, all the while saying things about her father, and how she never wants to meet him ever, and how he's a low-life jerk, while she's spending his money. I wonder why. Why does this child not want to meet her own father? I also see how her life is, and I wonder how do I prevent my baby girl from going through the emotions I've seen this little girl go through over the years. She looks for "boys" to fulfill that void in her life. I watch her go through this and it makes me sad, wondering if that will be my little girl's feelings too one day. Her mother is remarried, but that doesn't change the way this young girl feels about her father, or her step father for that matter.

Yeah I guess my feelings are more on here than not, but it's a good outlet for me. A way to rant and rave when I want to put my fist through a wall - or when I'm sad and feel like someone may be listening for a second, or just when I have something I need to say out loud to feel the release of saying it out loud. Perhaps even an educational experience as to how I really feel, enlighted within myself. A way for me to look at the whole picture, and not limit myself to the narrowmindedness of societies ideas of what is correct and proper today, which will change tomorrow.

Some things have changed within the case yesterday, I'll write about it later.

Sorry it's long today.. thanks for listening..

How did you know he blocked you from emailing him?

Is it because you emailed him there was not response so you tried again and that second attempt is how you learned this?

It is an outstanding feeling to be vindicated but take some of the advice given here and back off.

You might be doing more harm then good.

Laura by now you must have some inkling that Rob is not interested in parenting your daughter at this point in time. Maybe in the future but certainly not now. You've just proven he is a liar. He's pissed with you. The result of the paternity test was not good news to him.

You cannot deal with him based upon the type you are. Unfortunately you have to deal with based upon the type of person he is. Less stress will ensue. He dodged his responsibility for one year. The paternity results will not change his character. This was never about proving paternity, it was about dodging responsibility.

Laura, you gotta start using your head. Why would you want him and all that tension at your daughter's party? You might be happy go lucky and forgiving in nature, he is not. He's angry and you need to give him time to gain some prospective. You don't want him anywhere near until he's clear thinking. Besides she doesn't care if he's there. Naomi is more aware of the paint on the wall then his presense at her party. I think she would sense the tension in the room if he were there. Why invite that into your home?

Y'know it's almost like you are stalking him! I'm not saying you are but he could make a case for harassment. He's made it clear in on every occasion that he does not want to be contacted by you. Yet you ignore that and contact him anyway. Your excuse it you'r doing this for Naomi, have you stopped and considered you might the problem here. Let it be, give him space to grow. Follow through with your court case but let the other chips fall where they may.

Trust me, I am not picking on you for typing your thoughts. This thread has become a sounding board of sorts. I want little Naomi to have the best life but sometimes our best intentions cause more problems then they resolve.

Well it's official I called my attorney today and told them to go ahead with the proceedings.. not only of collecting child support but I want my attorney fees back, and the dna test cost back. I do not think it's right, and just, that I had to get an attorney to get accomplished what I already said we could have done a year ago with both rob and myself paying half of his dna test. We would both be out about 250.00 at this point if he would have just done that. Now.. well now we're in the thousands. Now that he knows the baby is his..(ok, like he didn't already.. but anyways)what has he done.. NOTHING. Well not absolutely nothing.. he's blocked me on his email YET AGAIN.
I gave him this email.. which never reached him..

Hello Rob,

I just wanted to invite you and your family to Naomi's first birthday party on May 11, 2006 at 7 pm. Give us a call if you plan on attending. This would be a good way to have Naomi meet you.

Laura
(my phone # here)

End Email-

In any case.. When it comes to Rob, I'm so disgusted with him. I can't believe he would do this to his own flesh and blood. I'm no longer sad about it.. I just want to get paid back for the hassle of the past year of trying to get the so desired, dna test done.

My name is cleared to his family.. I'm NOT a "w***e." as his mother put it in a letter to me.. "with your lifestyle it could be anybody's baby." (wrong again)

Rob IS a dead beat dad. As his mother put it in the same letter "Rob is a dead beat dad, your words, not his, and not mine." d**n RIGHT THOSE ARE MY WORDS!! Show me otherwise! Speak the truth people!

Now that there's proof for them, I feel better about how his family has to see things. Well they are probably still blind, but none the less. They have the papers to show them the truth.

Rob's full of lies and they have to see that now. Even if they don't, you'd better believe I know they KNOW the truth, and that gives me my pride back. I no longer have to feel ashamed. Granted I made wrong choices in the situation, but I DID NOT EVER turn my back on my child, nor did I treat any of them badly, or less than human, at anytime. They have treated us like we have the plague, and that we are garbage in which they throw away as such. That is inexcusable, and irrefuteable actions.

If and when the time comes in Naomi's life, that SHE wants to meet her bio father, I truly hope someone in his family has done some serious growing up, and handles that situation with more care then any of them have handled this one.

Well Rob's intentions at this point are pretty obvious. We of course have not heard one single word from him or his family. So much for the "promises" made by him and his family about "once the dna test was completed."

It would appear if anything will happen it will all be by force. I am concerned slightly with the backlash that may occur once we file for support. However, I really don't think he has a leg to stand on with anything he can "make up" to smear my name, or hurt Naomi, in a court of law. So with long conversations, a little fear driven days, and some serious thought, we've decided we're going to file for child support for Naomi. It is the best thing to do I believe. I cannot change what rob is going to do. He has the authority to file visitation, custody, or anything else at this time whether or not he's paying support.

I was going to wait until July to file, giving him enough time to figure out what he wants to do. However, I believe he's had enough time already. He's known Naomi was his child since day one. I believe that is why the threats in March of 05, and that's why he's been running away so hard. He doesn't want to be held responsible for Naomi.

In January or February of 05 he bought diapers, a blanket, and new born bottles for her. (He knew then that she was his.)Then in March of 05 he "threatened me" with "if I have to pay for her I will get custody." Then right before I went into the hospital to have Naomi in May of 05, I was in communication with him, well mostly his girlfriend at the time was answering for him but none the less, she said it would be "better for the baby" if rob were to sign away his parental rights. (They all knew then Naomi was his.) Just things I've been thinking about, and has helped me realize his intentions. These are all actions of a man not wanting to be held responsible for his own child.

Then of course he tried to throw all his responsabilites on my husband by having his lawyer use the "presumption law." All attempts of trying to get out of paying anything for his child. I believe it is apparent (even to a judge) of Rob's intentions. I also believe any judge on the face of the planet will see past his actions if he has a "sudden change of heart" and tries to get into her life, for revenge.

Therefore, in my best judgement I believe it will be ok for me to tell my attorney to go ahead and start the child support proceedings. To my dismay rob has chosen this course of action for us all. It is his choices that have led us down this road to where we are today. This could have all been done differently once upon a time. It is time I do the proper thing for Naomi, and not waste another day waiting for rob to make proper choices he's obviously not going to make.

The one thing I can say is you know, it may have turned out this way, but having known then, what I know now, I wouldn't change a thing, simply because I have a beautiful little precious baby girl out of all of this. I've never loved anyone as much as I love my children. They are such a blessing. I view rob's disappearing act as a blessing in disguise.

I know that sometimes it appears I care about rob (more than I should) I think it is just me, the way that I am. I am not a mean unforgiving type of person. I believe people all make mistakes. I wanted to give rob the benefit of the doubt. I wanted to give him enough time to come around to being a father. I felt it was not possible for a father to turn his back on his child. I did what I could. It was definately a life lesson, one in which I won't soon forget.

I remember one day when I was pregnant, (about 5 months along) I was shopping and had ran into rob's mom at the store. She was all smiles, she walked up to me and gave me a hug. She made me feel nice, comforted, and accepted. I just find it amazing that very same person is the one to send me a nasty letter, calling me names, and turning her back on her grandchild. I guess it all takes time to understand.

I know now that I can look ahead to the future, and move beyond rob and his family. In all reality they lost out. Naomi is precious, and they dont see that because they choose everyday not to. It still hurts. They have no idea what they are missing.. but it's ok, because the words the one person said to me recently is absolutely correct... I do get all the hugs, and for that I'm grateful. I wouldn't trade that feeling for anything. She's my princess, my little Koala bear, my life.

She's recently learned how to give little kisses.. lol it's funny.. she'll open her mouth really wide and go ahhh and kiss my cheek.. it's adorable. You know there's only one thing in this world that can make your heart overflow, and that is your babies. If rob knew that, he'd run so fast toward her, not away from her. You can't make someone realize what they are missing that's true. I am just grateful I am not missing any of those wonderful things like her "little kisses" and her "laughing fits" all which make up who my baby girl is, and THAT I wouldn't trade for anything.

Thanks for listening..

I was married for 10 years, 3 children, youngest was 1 when I divorced. Fortunately he was military and payments come directly from the military. I have absolutely NO contact with my ex-, nor do my children. I say just let it go!

If he does not want to be part of her life, it is not going to do you or her any good in trying to force the issue. IF you get child support be happy that he is being made to be responsible financially otherwise; give it a rest!!! I would not EVER push my children to have contact with their father, it is their choice. The one time I did have my yougest, who was 18 months at the time, see her father, I felt awful. She cried when I left her and was truly happy when I picked her up after only 2 hours.

In reading through almost all of the postings I agree that you have some resentment to this man. Yes, he should not have pushed for a child and then abandon that child. BUT, you were still married at the time, regardless of being separated or not, so to even consider having another child with someone that you did not have a healthy and loving relationship with was not a good thing to do on your part. Personally, I would have been trying to deal with the issue first of being left to support the 2 children I had to start with. Regardless if planned or not, I do not fault you for wanting him to be responsible for his child, he should be. BUT don't push the issue for visitation or trying to be a part of his life. Trust me, in the long run it is far better for the child.

I could not imagine not having any of my children, they are the greatest joy and loves of my life. BUT I find I am so much better off without having to deal with my ex and having my children all to myself. When they decide, and if they decide to see him, it is totally up to them.

BE HAPPY FOR YOUR BEAUTIFUL CHILD AND GIVE HER ALL THE LOVE YOU HAVE...WE KNOW HOW MUCH THE MEN IN OUR CHILDREN'S LIVES HAVE MISSED OUT... WE GET ALL THE PROBLEMS BUT WE ALSO GET ALL THE HUGS, ALL THE LOVE, THE FIRST TOOTH, THE FIRST HAIRCUT, ALL THE FIRST!!!

LET IT GO.

Can you imaginge the grief Rob's getting from his wife? He'll never tell you but I bet she is reading him the riot act cuz his goose is cooked!
She now knows what you know...Rob is a low life liar!

Imagine how shame faced he's going to be when he has to admit this to the rest of his family! I'm sure they already knew he was lying but this is proof positive!

Y'know it may not seem like a good thing now, but hopefully Rob will keep his distance and not get involved. You'll find there very few benefits to having him around. In fact he'll be more trouble then he is worth.

As the other poster suggested, Child support and visitation are separate issues. One practical example is if he falls behind in support, you cannot withhold visitation.

Make sure your lawyer is protecting you. Make sure there is a clause about who can legally claim Noami on their tax return. He might somehow gain access to her SSN and file her as a dependant. You never know what goes through people's head. The IRS is not going to sort it out for you. If you're stuck suing him, you don't a document that is silent on the issue.

Ask your atty to address the issue of supervised visitation since Rob has made no effort to be in Naomi's life. He is a stranger to her.

Another thing which might seem obvious, make sure the court document states the employer cuts you a check and state specifically what date the payment is due. You don't want Rob submitting a check to you directly. (you will be the last priority). I've had a few friends get burned with this one. They eventually took the order to child support enforcement but until then, they were stuck dealing with whenever and however much he decided to pay, regardless of the order!

One other thing about waiting to file for support. It think your atty might be alluding to the fact family court is increasing taking the position of not awarding arrears from date of birth when custodial parent has a significant delayed filing.

Good Luck!

I did a search on dogpile with the words oregon visitation laws, and came up with some very informative websites. One of those happened to be the oregon legislature, another the oregon state bar. The sites are very clear on the expectations regarding visitation in your state, and I think you might find them interesting reading. Since we can't list websites on here it's rather difficult for me to be more specific, but if you can't find them, let me know and we'll try and get more creative.

Maybe this will help you find the information that you're looking for. Keep us updated.

huggs,

Laura,

Child support and visitation are treated as wholly separate issues by almost all Family Support Courts.

While the issues may be addressed during the same hearing, it is not likely unless you and your attorney agree to this occurring. I worked in the California Family Support system for several years and while kidnapping by a non-custodial parent occurs it is extremely rare. For even a semi-reasonable adult paying child support is far preferable to a prison sentence. When this does occur you can be assured it is treated with high importance by the authorities.

As for the custody issue, if your home is financially stable, there is no evidence of domestic violence or abuse, you have no felony, substance abuse or severe mental problems there is no issue.

Without being able to prove you are an unfit mother or your home is not suitable for a child very, very few judges in this country will grant custody to a non-custodial parent. And although it sounds sexist it is rare for a non-custodial father of a child in which the parties were never married to gain custody. He can threaten all he wants, it is extremely rare for this to happen.

Family court judges are very wise to ploys by non-custodial parents trying to gain custody to avoid paying support. Trust me they have seen and heard it all and they don't fall for it.

As for waiting until she is school age to address the issue of support, I don't recommend it. The longer you wait to address the issue of support, should you elect to pursue it the more difficult it will be. In addition, waiting 5 or 6 years to address the issue often makes you suspect in the eyes of the court. While it does not apply to you, the court often views requests after this period of time, when paternity was established early, as requests from a jilted lover who is trying to seek revenge in some form.

Additionally, he has a responsibility as a man to support this child. If you do as you plan, banking 5-6 years of support payments for your daughter's college is nothing but a benefit to her. With tuition costs skyrocketing annually there is no reason not to have the benefit of 5 to 6 years of savings.

Finally it seems you are reaching a resolution to this issue. Your only remaining decision is to pursue or not pursue support. That decision can only be made by you based on your personal financial situation.

Laura,

Child support and visitation are treated as wholly separate issues by almost all Family Support Courts.

While the issues may be addressed during the same hearing, it is not likely unless you and your attorney agree to this occurring. I worked in the California Family Support system for several years and while kidnapping by a non-custodial parent occurs it is extremely rare. For even a semi-reasonable adult paying child support is far preferable to a prison sentence. When this does occur you can be assured it is treated with high importance by the authorities.

As for the custody issue, if your home is financially stable, there is no evidence of domestic violence or abuse, you have no felony, substance abuse or severe mental problems there is no issue.

Without being able to prove you are an unfit mother or your home is not suitable for a child very, very few judges in this country will grant custody to a non-custodial parent. And although it sounds sexist it is rare for a non-custodial father of a child in which the parties were never married to gain custody. He can threaten all he wants, it is extremely rare for this to happen.

Family court judges are very wise to ploys by non-custodial parents trying to gain custody to avoid paying support. Trust me they have seen and heard it all and they don't fall for it.

As for waiting until she is school age to address the issue of support, I don't recommend it. The longer you wait to address the issue of support, should you elect to pursue it the more difficult it will be. In addition, waiting 5 or 6 years to address the issue often makes you suspect in the eyes of the court. While it does not apply to you, the court often views requests after this period of time, when paternity was established early, as requests from a jilted lover who is trying to seek revenge in some form.

Additionally, he has a responsibility as a man to support this child. If you do as you plan, banking 5-6 years of support payments for your daughter's college is nothing but a benefit to her. With tuition costs skyrocketing annually there is no reason not to have the benefit of 5 to 6 years of savings.

Finally it seems you are reaching a resolution to this issue. Your only remaining decision is to pursue or not pursue support. That decision can only be made by you based on your personal financial situation.

Laura,

Child support and visitation are treated as wholly separate issues by almost all Family Support Courts.

While the issues may be addressed during the same hearing, it is not likely unless you and your attorney agree to this occurring. I worked in the California Family Support system for several years and while kidnapping by a non-custodial parent occurs it is extremely rare. For even a semi-reasonable adult paying child support is far preferable to a prison sentence. When this does occur you can be assured it is treated with high importance by the authorities.

As for the custody issue, if your home is financially stable, there is no evidence of domestic violence or abuse, you have no felony, substance abuse or severe mental problems there is no issue.

Without being able to prove you are an unfit mother or your home is not suitable for a child very, very few judges in this country will grant custody to a non-custodial parent. And although it sounds sexist it is rare for a non-custodial father of a child in which the parties were never married to gain custody. He can threaten all he wants, it is extremely rare for this to happen.

Family court judges are very wise to ploys by non-custodial parents trying to gain custody to avoid paying support. Trust me they have seen and heard it all and they don't fall for it.

As for waiting until she is school age to address the issue of support, I don't recommend it. The longer you wait to address the issue of support, should you elect to pursue it the more difficult it will be. In addition, waiting 5 or 6 years to address the issue often makes you suspect in the eyes of the court. While it does not apply to you, the court often views requests after this period of time, when paternity was established early, as requests from a jilted lover who is trying to seek revenge in some form.

Additionally, he has a responsibility as a man to support this child. If you do as you plan, banking 5-6 years of support payments for your daughter's college is nothing but a benefit to her. With tuition costs skyrocketing annually there is no reason not to have the benefit of 5 to 6 years of savings.

Finally it seems you are reaching a resolution to this issue. Your only remaining decision is to pursue or not pursue support. That decision can only be made by you based on your personal financial situation.

Here's the dilema that's going on in my head at this time. I will try my best to explain this as best I can without to much confusion.

Do you remember at the beginning of this whole thing, when I said that Rob had told me "if I have to pay for her I will get custody?" Then do you remember, I received a letter from his mother backing up that very same threat? Ok, so what does he have to lose if I go after him for child support? What prevents him from dragging me into court battle, after court battle, with custody, visitation or otherwise? Now we all know that he would not be doing that out of love for his daughter or the fact that he would want to be a part of her life all of the sudden. We all know that would be a vendictive action on his part. Would a judge see that?

I'm not real concerned with him getting custody because I'm not an unfit mother, and that would be a very hard (I would say impossible, but we all know the story of the titanic.) thing for him to do.

Here's an even bigger question... What prevents him from taking her on a "visitation day" and never returning her? I started realizing that I dont think I know him very well at all. I heard about his family members, but I've never MET any of his family members except his mother, and father. (technically his grandparents - they adopted him) Now he even has a wife with possible family members also that I do not know.

Why would I go after his money if it ends up putting my daughter in harms way? To me it's not worth it what-so-ever. Could it put her in harms way? Are there laws to protect her from that?

Now, I'm thinking that perhaps I've opened up a can of worms, (or certainly if I go after support) and it's best to avoid and protect to the best of my ability. Prevention seems better obtained then realizing after the fact when I have a missing child, or no child.

You know I've talked to my husband about this whole thing, and he says well maybe we should go ahead and wait until she's of school age like you suggested. Then I think, well if I have this fear now, why wouldn't I have the same fear then? Well for one, it will be harder for him to prove his case after so many years having passed proving he wants nothing to do with his daughter. So, the courts could probably see past those actions better at that time right?

Rob will more than likely proceed with the same actions we've seen thus far. He will probably just pay his child support, and never see Naomi. But what if we're all wrong? How can I protect my daughter if I am wrong about rob?

Maybe I should look up laws, and educate myself on the matter before I proceed further. I just don't know right now. Any thoughts?

Here's the dilema that's going on in my head at this time. I will try my best to explain this as best I can without to much confusion.

Do you remember at the beginning of this whole thing, when I said that Rob had told me "if I have to pay for her I will get custody?" Then do you remember, I received a letter from his mother backing up that very same threat? Ok, so what does he have to lose if I go after him for child support? What prevents him from dragging me into court battle, after court battle, with custody, visitation or otherwise? Now we all know that he would not be doing that out of love for his daughter or the fact that he would want to be a part of her life all of the sudden. We all know that would be a vendictive action on his part. Would a judge see that?

I'm not real concerned with him getting custody because I'm not an unfit mother, and that would be a very hard (I would say impossible, but we all know the story of the titanic.) thing for him to do.

Here's an even bigger question... What prevents him from taking her on a "visitation day" and never returning her? I started realizing that I dont think I know him very well at all. I heard about his family members, but I've never MET any of his family members except his mother, and father. (technically his grandparents - they adopted him) Now he even has a wife with possible family members also that I do not know.

Why would I go after his money if it ends up putting my daughter in harms way? To me it's not worth it what-so-ever. Could it put her in harms way? Are there laws to protect her from that?

Now, I'm thinking that perhaps I've opened up a can of worms, (or certainly if I go after support) and it's best to avoid and protect to the best of my ability. Prevention seems better obtained then realizing after the fact when I have a missing child, or no child.

You know I've talked to my husband about this whole thing, and he says well maybe we should go ahead and wait until she's of school age like you suggested. Then I think, well if I have this fear now, why wouldn't I have the same fear then? Well for one, it will be harder for him to prove his case after so many years having passed proving he wants nothing to do with his daughter. So, the courts could probably see past those actions better at that time right?

Rob will more than likely proceed with the same actions we've seen thus far. He will probably just pay his child support, and never see Naomi. But what if we're all wrong? How can I protect my daughter if I am wrong about rob?

Maybe I should look up laws, and educate myself on the matter before I proceed further. I just don't know right now. Any thoughts?

Here's the dilema that's going on in my head at this time. I will try my best to explain this as best I can without to much confusion.

Do you remember at the beginning of this whole thing, when I said that Rob had told me "if I have to pay for her I will get custody?" Then do you remember, I received a letter from his mother backing up that very same threat? Ok, so what does he have to lose if I go after him for child support? What prevents him from dragging me into court battle, after court battle, with custody, visitation or otherwise? Now we all know that he would not be doing that out of love for his daughter or the fact that he would want to be a part of her life all of the sudden. We all know that would be a vendictive action on his part. Would a judge see that?

I'm not real concerned with him getting custody because I'm not an unfit mother, and that would be a very hard (I would say impossible, but we all know the story of the titanic.) thing for him to do.

Here's an even bigger question... What prevents him from taking her on a "visitation day" and never returning her? I started realizing that I dont think I know him very well at all. I heard about his family members, but I've never MET any of his family members except his mother, and father. (technically his grandparents - they adopted him) Now he even has a wife with possible family members also that I do not know.

Why would I go after his money if it ends up putting my daughter in harms way? To me it's not worth it what-so-ever. Could it put her in harms way? Are there laws to protect her from that?

Now, I'm thinking that perhaps I've opened up a can of worms, (or certainly if I go after support) and it's best to avoid and protect to the best of my ability. Prevention seems better obtained then realizing after the fact when I have a missing child, or no child.

You know I've talked to my husband about this whole thing, and he says well maybe we should go ahead and wait until she's of school age like you suggested. Then I think, well if I have this fear now, why wouldn't I have the same fear then? Well for one, it will be harder for him to prove his case after so many years having passed proving he wants nothing to do with his daughter. So, the courts could probably see past those actions better at that time right?

Rob will more than likely proceed with the same actions we've seen thus far. He will probably just pay his child support, and never see Naomi. But what if we're all wrong? How can I protect my daughter if I am wrong about rob?

Maybe I should look up laws, and educate myself on the matter before I proceed further. I just don't know right now. Any thoughts?

Here's the dilema that's going on in my head at this time. I will try my best to explain this as best I can without to much confusion.

Do you remember at the beginning of this whole thing, when I said that Rob had told me "if I have to pay for her I will get custody?" Then do you remember, I received a letter from his mother backing up that very same threat? Ok, so what does he have to lose if I go after him for child support? What prevents him from dragging me into court battle, after court battle, with custody, visitation or otherwise? Now we all know that he would not be doing that out of love for his daughter or the fact that he would want to be a part of her life all of the sudden. We all know that would be a vendictive action on his part. Would a judge see that?

I'm not real concerned with him getting custody because I'm not an unfit mother, and that would be a very hard (I would say impossible, but we all know the story of the titanic.) thing for him to do.

Here's an even bigger question... What prevents him from taking her on a "visitation day" and never returning her? I started realizing that I dont think I know him very well at all. I heard about his family members, but I've never MET any of his family members except his mother, and father. (technically his grandparents - they adopted him) Now he even has a wife with possible family members also that I do not know.

Why would I go after his money if it ends up putting my daughter in harms way? To me it's not worth it what-so-ever. Could it put her in harms way? Are there laws to protect her from that?

Now, I'm thinking that perhaps I've opened up a can of worms, (or certainly if I go after support) and it's best to avoid and protect to the best of my ability. Prevention seems better obtained then realizing after the fact when I have a missing child, or no child.

You know I've talked to my husband about this whole thing, and he says well maybe we should go ahead and wait until she's of school age like you suggested. Then I think, well if I have this fear now, why wouldn't I have the same fear then? Well for one, it will be harder for him to prove his case after so many years having passed proving he wants nothing to do with his daughter. So, the courts could probably see past those actions better at that time right?

Rob will more than likely proceed with the same actions we've seen thus far. He will probably just pay his child support, and never see Naomi. But what if we're all wrong? How can I protect my daughter if I am wrong about rob?

Maybe I should look up laws, and educate myself on the matter before I proceed further. I just don't know right now. Any thoughts?

Just like an attorney....hurry up and wait! I have never heard of a 'statute of limitations' on a paternity action, nor on seeking child support. Tell the attorney that you need some time to think, and that you'll get back to him. The biggest difference that waiting will make is how much money the attorney will get now *wink*

Stand your ground, you're on a roll!

huggs,

Just like an attorney....hurry up and wait! I have never heard of a 'statute of limitations' on a paternity action, nor on seeking child support. Tell the attorney that you need some time to think, and that you'll get back to him. The biggest difference that waiting will make is how much money the attorney will get now *wink*

Stand your ground, you're on a roll!

huggs,

Just like an attorney....hurry up and wait! I have never heard of a 'statute of limitations' on a paternity action, nor on seeking child support. Tell the attorney that you need some time to think, and that you'll get back to him. The biggest difference that waiting will make is how much money the attorney will get now *wink*

Stand your ground, you're on a roll!

huggs,

Just like an attorney....hurry up and wait! I have never heard of a 'statute of limitations' on a paternity action, nor on seeking child support. Tell the attorney that you need some time to think, and that you'll get back to him. The biggest difference that waiting will make is how much money the attorney will get now *wink*

Stand your ground, you're on a roll!

huggs,

I have just received the hard copy of the dna results on Rob and I need to clarify the results.. They are actually 99.999997% probability of paternity being Robert Allen Koontz.

I have also been advised by my attorney not to let to much time go by before I allow him to proceed with child support. I'm not sure why as of yet. I guess I need to talk to my lawyer again. I dont want to be rushed into things that I can't undo.

Arg.. and I was looking forward to this peaceful time.

I just finished reading your entire thread and it's a whirlwind of events I must say. I struggled for a year to prove to my "baby daddy" he was the father of my now 3 year old daughter. He pays support and even gets his daughter. Rob doesn't sound like he wants anything to do with your daughter. That's a fact you need to face. Proceed with everything your doing as far as the support goes. Your baby is entitled to that atleast, but you can't make someone love or care. You just can't. It's his loss not yours. I found that when I left the situation alone and I mean LEAVE IT ALONE!!!!! They come around (If there is any ounce of MAN in Rob) He'll come around. It seems like your husband backs you which is good and he should. He's willing to take you back and love Naomi like she's his then that's all you need. I know it hurts when the person you conceived a child with wants nothing to do with them it tears you up inside because you can't understand why they don't feel the same way you do.

He'll have to answer for his actions at some point in his life. If his current wife were much of a woman then once they get the results she would tell him he needs to step up to the plate. Why is Rob igonring you and REFUSING to communicate with you??? He seems so gung-h*o about not having anything to do with you PERIOD!!!!! Hang in there..... Love your daughter, continue with the courts because you haven't come this far to give up keep fighting and it will all work out. I understand the pain and hurt and believe me I know it HURTS like hell. I'm a single mother of 3 children and if I never heard from their father I know I've grown physically and emotionally enough that it wouldn't bother me because I'd rather them not deal with my babies when they don't love them because I don't want them around fakeness. Your baby needs LOVE, HONESTY, and AFFECTION. If your family is giving her that your in the right place.

I met my father once when I was 12 never heard from him since, I know where he is and he even keeps in contact with my brother but I don't WANT a relationship with him why, because if he gave a d**n he would have came around and been there. Hopefully Naomi grows up and realizes that if her "biological" wanted anything to do with her he would have been around and as long as you do the right thing by her she won't be too hurt by him not wanting her. Always remember it's Rob's loss not your's or Naomi's it's His. Good Luck Gurl!!!

My story has not changed. Since day one I've wanted rob to be a part of his baby's life. I have had ups and downs about that of course due to his actions, or lack thereof. As for the other dna test it was exactly that, another dna test. It was a test done between my husband, myself, and my daughter. The dna test that I've reported recently is one that rob himself took. (finally)

Leticia: As for the name calling (attention wanting troll) I actually have quite the opposite problem in that I cannot gain weight, but thanks for jumping to conclusions. It's great to have that type of support.

As of now Rob has known for about 48 hours without a shadow of a doubt that Naomi is his baby. As of now, rob has not stepped forward, nor has he "opened communication lines." (remember)

I am still maintaining my position at this time, and not proceeding in any manner. I am giving it time, and thought.

Thanks to everyone for your nice comments the past few days. I will be posting as things progress. (which may take awhile)

My story has not changed. Since day one I've wanted rob to be a part of his baby's life. I have had ups and downs about that of course due to his actions, or lack thereof. As for the other dna test it was exactly that, another dna test. It was a test done between my husband, myself, and my daughter. The dna test that I've reported recently is one that rob himself took. (finally)

Leticia: As for the name calling (attention wanting troll) I actually have quite the opposite problem in that I cannot gain weight, but thanks for jumping to conclusions. It's great to have that type of support.

As of now Rob has known for about 48 hours without a shadow of a doubt that Naomi is his baby. As of now, rob has not stepped forward, nor has he "opened communication lines." (remember)

I am still maintaining my position at this time, and not proceeding in any manner. I am giving it time, and thought.

Thanks to everyone for your nice comments the past few days. I will be posting as things progress. (which may take awhile)

My story has not changed. Since day one I've wanted rob to be a part of his baby's life. I have had ups and downs about that of course due to his actions, or lack thereof. As for the other dna test it was exactly that, another dna test. It was a test done between my husband, myself, and my daughter. The dna test that I've reported recently is one that rob himself took. (finally)

Leticia: As for the name calling (attention wanting troll) I actually have quite the opposite problem in that I cannot gain weight, but thanks for jumping to conclusions. It's great to have that type of support.

As of now Rob has known for about 48 hours without a shadow of a doubt that Naomi is his baby. As of now, rob has not stepped forward, nor has he "opened communication lines." (remember)

I am still maintaining my position at this time, and not proceeding in any manner. I am giving it time, and thought.

Thanks to everyone for your nice comments the past few days. I will be posting as things progress. (which may take awhile)

My story has not changed. Since day one I've wanted rob to be a part of his baby's life. I have had ups and downs about that of course due to his actions, or lack thereof. As for the other dna test it was exactly that, another dna test. It was a test done between my husband, myself, and my daughter. The dna test that I've reported recently is one that rob himself took. (finally)

Leticia: As for the name calling (attention wanting troll) I actually have quite the opposite problem in that I cannot gain weight, but thanks for jumping to conclusions. It's great to have that type of support.

As of now Rob has known for about 48 hours without a shadow of a doubt that Naomi is his baby. As of now, rob has not stepped forward, nor has he "opened communication lines." (remember)

I am still maintaining my position at this time, and not proceeding in any manner. I am giving it time, and thought.

Thanks to everyone for your nice comments the past few days. I will be posting as things progress. (which may take awhile)

I've read a lot of responses on this thread, and admittedly, there have been a lot of comments on here that were straightforward, but your latest comment takes the cake. Name calling such as this doesn't seem warranted to me.

Yes, Laura has had a rough time throughout the last several months, and 'roller-coasters' up and down. Confusion, frustration, anger, hurt.... all feelings that are very real in a situation such as this. Not only has she had to deal with feelings involving Rob's involvement (or lack thereof) with Naomi, but husband, other children and extended family feelings about what's been going on. Other posters have tried to be constructive and share experiences in hopes of sparing Naomi and the rest of the family from being torn apart any more than they already have been. Your comments were NOT constructive, but instead downright NASTY. I've had my moments of frustration in regards to this thread, and your comments offended me, which is not an easy thing to do.

In this situation, Laura needs support and guidance, NOT a backhanded slam. We can't make her decisions for her, but we can try and help her see the bigger picture. I'm so glad that you live in a glass house of perfection... it shows in your post.

Didn't you report the same DNA report earlier Laura? And then mentioned that your husband was going to leave you because of it? (and you guys talked it out but he wanted you to pursue the child support because he wasn't going to support a child that wasn't his?)

Now I'm smelling attention wanting troll.

you keep changing your story to fit whomever has last replied to you.

Didn't you report the same DNA report earlier Laura? And then mentioned that your husband was going to leave you because of it? (and you guys talked it out but he wanted you to pursue the child support because he wasn't going to support a child that wasn't his?)

Now I'm smelling attention wanting troll.

you keep changing your story to fit whomever has last replied to you.

Didn't you report the same DNA report earlier Laura? And then mentioned that your husband was going to leave you because of it? (and you guys talked it out but he wanted you to pursue the child support because he wasn't going to support a child that wasn't his?)

Now I'm smelling attention wanting troll.

you keep changing your story to fit whomever has last replied to you.

Didn't you report the same DNA report earlier Laura? And then mentioned that your husband was going to leave you because of it? (and you guys talked it out but he wanted you to pursue the child support because he wasn't going to support a child that wasn't his?)

Now I'm smelling attention wanting troll.

you keep changing your story to fit whomever has last replied to you.

On your journey forward. You've now got the knowledge that you were seeking, and I hope it brings peace to your heart.

Blessings to you and your family, and hoping for a fruitful, happy and loving future. Happy Birthday to Naomi, and happy thoughts for her future. May you and your husband find many happy years ahead! Please keep us updated, as there are many out here that truly want to see the best for your entire family.

Laura,

Well, at least now you have the testing done and out of the way. Now that much of this has been settled and it is time to decide where to go from here. I think it is very wise of you to sit back and take time to ponder what direction you wish to take this. Who knows, it is possible that now that Rob has the proof he will stand up and be a man. Doubtful, but possible.

I appreciate your comments about your husband. I am glad to hear that you appreciate how fortunate you are and I hope that you make sure that your husband is aware of it as well. Any man that is willing to be a father in this situation is a good man and you are very blessed to have him in your life. I am glad to hear as well that your marriage has stabilized. You had a few postings that made it appear that things were not very secure so I appreciate that you have clarified that issue.

I know that some of what I have said was pretty harsh. I don't apologize for saying what needs to be said. BUT, I do want you to know that we ALL make mistakes in our life and forgiving ourselves and learning from them is what makes us good, strong people. Forgive yourself. Learn. It sounds to me that you are so very blessed with the children and husband that you have. Please realize that you deserve to be happy and don't let the past ruin your future.

Best of luck to you in whatever you decide to do and much happiness to you and your family. And happy birthday to your little Naomi.

99.9997% Rob is biological father confirmed by my attorney's office today at 2:01 pm.

My marriage is in tact, and we are doing well. I have told my attorney not to proceed with anything further at this time. I need time to think it all through. I think we all do.

I do appreciate my husband. I guess I have not said that enough on here. There are many things that transpire in my life, and marriage that I don't put on here. I appreciate everyone's comments, constructive criticism, and support. It is time to think things through and enjoy Naomi's first birthday in 9 days.

If anything changes in this situation I will be sure and post it for an update.

All the best.

My forehead is bloody and permanently scarred from beating it against a brick wall.... Your words were straight forward, and convey EXACTLY what I've been saying for months. Let's hope that Laura now has a better understanding of what we've ALL been trying to say.

Blessings

Laura,

You are either very thick headed or you don't read well - you don't get the point here. I and the last few posters are not saying you are money hungry - I don't think that at all. What I am saying is in your efforts to "do the right thing by Naomi" you are quite possibly hurting her and everyone around her even more.

"The thing I am now debating is if I should cease all action after the dna results tomorrow, or if I should proceed and allow money for Naomi from him."

Why do you even need the DNA results? You know who her father is - its your husband. You pursued the DNA results for one reason - to prove yourself to Rob and his family. Why? Who cares what they think? They want nothing to do with this child or you. Accept that. Who cares if they ever come around, she has a loving family what does she need Rob for?

Stop this insanity now. Wake up and start living in reality. Based on what you have posted about your husband and your marriage it is on shaky ground at best. It doesn't sound to me like it is strong enough to continue to withstand what you are doing. You NEED to let go of this obsession with Rob and move on. Is forcing him to spend time with his biological daughter or forcing him to pay child support worth your marriage? Is it worth your family? Really? You may not want Rob back, but you sure as heck haven't let him go.

In skimming over this thread once again, it occurs to me that perhaps this is a control issue. You were intent on making Rob acknowlege Naomi, in one way shape or form. You've attempted to call, write, and contact Rob, all of which have been ignored or rebuffed. All in the name of serving the best interest of Naomi.

Now, you've got your DNA test, proving what you wanted to prove....1) That you CAN make him submit to your will, and 2) That he has a daughter (perhaps I'm jumping the gun here, but Laura is supposed to post the results today). Now what? Do you further show your power by offering him a deal (ie: You be involved with Naomi and I'll drop any request for child support) or perhaps now tell Rob that you want child support but no contact because you feel that at this point it would be detrimental to Naomi? Either way, it shows that YOU now call the shots, doesn't it?

Scenario 1. Rob decides that he'll spend time with Naomi. Friday night he stops in at 6 to pick her up for the weekend. Husband and other sibs now watch their family member be taken out the door for the weekend. Husband remains silent, but inside his heart is crying out as he watches another man take ihs daughter away from him for the weekend. Kid's wonder, in the quiet of the night, why their sister has to go with Rob, why she doesn't stay at home with the family, perhaps going to the park for a picnic, or to the zoo for a day outing. On Sunday, Rob drops Naomi off, gives you a brief rundown of the weekend, explains the minor scrapes or bruises, and heads for home. Naomi, tired both physically and mentally from her experience, tries your patience for the evening until you have her sleeping in her bed.

Ten years forward: We're still repeating the same situation, but everyone is older now. The other children have witnessed the fact that Rob buys gifts for Naomi, which you explain is because he's her daddy. To the kids, they only know that now she gets gifts from YOU and from Rob..... it just doesn't seem fair. Naomi has now learned the power of manipulation. When she's angry at hubby (IF hubby has survived this long), she screams at him "You're NOT my FATHER!!". She's figured out how to 'play' one parent against another. Hubby, having suffered defeat so many years ago, finally throws up his hands and tells you "You deal with her, I give up", and walks out of the room. The other sibs now start pushing Naomi to the side, not wanting to spend a great deal of time with her, finally realizing the 'bond' that the two of them share is NOT shared with Naomi.

Scenario 2. Child Support is established for Rob. Since child support and visitation are separate issues, visitation is not addressed. After 3 months (6, 9, you pick it), Robs new wife tells Rob that if he's going to pay child support, he might as well see Naomi. He then petitions the Court. Judge agrees that he should be allowed to see Naomi, and sets up a 6 month supervised visitation schedule to allow Naomi to get to know her 'dad'. At this point, you can pretty much again refer to Scenario 1.

Either way, Laura has achieved control, although the true cost will take years to assess. I'm sure by then, her feelings will once again have changed, although by then, the damage has been done, and there's no turning back. The legacy that she has created will be that of a fragmented family...... a far cry from her 'dreams'.

Yup, just another'opinion' from a stranger, based on scenarios that play out far more often that any of us care to admit. As has been pointed out previously, this is the world that we now live in.

In skimming over this thread once again, it occurs to me that perhaps this is a control issue. You were intent on making Rob acknowlege Naomi, in one way shape or form. You've attempted to call, write, and contact Rob, all of which have been ignored or rebuffed. All in the name of serving the best interest of Naomi.

Now, you've got your DNA test, proving what you wanted to prove....1) That you CAN make him submit to your will, and 2) That he has a daughter (perhaps I'm jumping the gun here, but Laura is supposed to post the results today). Now what? Do you further show your power by offering him a deal (ie: You be involved with Naomi and I'll drop any request for child support) or perhaps now tell Rob that you want child support but no contact because you feel that at this point it would be detrimental to Naomi? Either way, it shows that YOU now call the shots, doesn't it?

Scenario 1. Rob decides that he'll spend time with Naomi. Friday night he stops in at 6 to pick her up for the weekend. Husband and other sibs now watch their family member be taken out the door for the weekend. Husband remains silent, but inside his heart is crying out as he watches another man take ihs daughter away from him for the weekend. Kid's wonder, in the quiet of the night, why their sister has to go with Rob, why she doesn't stay at home with the family, perhaps going to the park for a picnic, or to the zoo for a day outing. On Sunday, Rob drops Naomi off, gives you a brief rundown of the weekend, explains the minor scrapes or bruises, and heads for home. Naomi, tired both physically and mentally from her experience, tries your patience for the evening until you have her sleeping in her bed.

Ten years forward: We're still repeating the same situation, but everyone is older now. The other children have witnessed the fact that Rob buys gifts for Naomi, which you explain is because he's her daddy. To the kids, they only know that now she gets gifts from YOU and from Rob..... it just doesn't seem fair. Naomi has now learned the power of manipulation. When she's angry at hubby (IF hubby has survived this long), she screams at him "You're NOT my FATHER!!". She's figured out how to 'play' one parent against another. Hubby, having suffered defeat so many years ago, finally throws up his hands and tells you "You deal with her, I give up", and walks out of the room. The other sibs now start pushing Naomi to the side, not wanting to spend a great deal of time with her, finally realizing the 'bond' that the two of them share is NOT shared with Naomi.

Scenario 2. Child Support is established for Rob. Since child support and visitation are separate issues, visitation is not addressed. After 3 months (6, 9, you pick it), Robs new wife tells Rob that if he's going to pay child support, he might as well see Naomi. He then petitions the Court. Judge agrees that he should be allowed to see Naomi, and sets up a 6 month supervised visitation schedule to allow Naomi to get to know her 'dad'. At this point, you can pretty much again refer to Scenario 1.

Either way, Laura has achieved control, although the true cost will take years to assess. I'm sure by then, her feelings will once again have changed, although by then, the damage has been done, and there's no turning back. The legacy that she has created will be that of a fragmented family...... a far cry from her 'dreams'.

Yup, just another'opinion' from a stranger, based on scenarios that play out far more often that any of us care to admit. As has been pointed out previously, this is the world that we now live in.

You still miss the point of the more recent posts. Okay, point, taken, you have no feelings for Rob.

What about your feelings for your husband, the man who has bonded with your daughter and acted as his father until now? If you don't start to take some time to reflect on all he has done, and have some consideration for his feelings in this matter you may very well find yourself a single mother.

But it really quite the contrary, most posters to this report are in your corner. They want you to find the peace that will lead your to happiness. One of the steps is honesty/acceptance which it doesn't seem like you've reached yet.

No one claims to know you. Any comments received here are based upon what you've written. Our own experiences gives us the insight or intuition is what enables us to read between the lines. People tell you things perhaps to save you some grief.

The recurring theme is old business with Rob. Maybe we've all missed our mark but I don't think so. Maybe it's worth looking into. It's not a criticism just an observation.

The reason my feelings change is because they are FEELINGS & feelings change with time, and growth. (meaning a child's understanding of her surroundings, and her awareness of the people in her life changed. Opting change from the parental point of view.)

Change is imparative, and for someone to say my feelings must remain the same at all times is expecting perfection.

Sure I had
Change occurs when all actions have been neglected by reaction.

By the time I started the court proceedings I knew THAT would be THE ONLY WAY for him to step up IN ANY WAY. I made that choice after many months of thinking about Rob's actions TOWARDS HIS BABY.. NOT TOWARDS MYSELF. I thought maybe he just needed a little nudge into parenthood. Well, we've given him more than a nudge, and he's standing firm at he doesn't care. Again, that was his choice. We're not going to try to make him care.

I can now rest knowing I did everything humanly possible for a relationship to have been established between a father and his daughter. It is no longer on my hands.

The thing I am now debating is if I should cease all action after the dna results tomorrow, or if I should proceed and allow money for Naomi from him. It is another crossroad in which I am compelled to make yet another choice in my young daughter's life, that will affect her life, throughout her entire life.

Money (oie we're back to that) is not what my original intention was, and I need to make sure it is accepted for the proper reasons, or not accepted at all.

Laura,

I have been following this thread for some time and up until now have refrained from commenting but I just can't listen to this anymore. So, you will most likely be somewhat offended by what I am about to say but I'm going to say it anyway - someone needs to........

1. You are a married woman (separated or not you were still married) and you get involved with another man. Not only do you have a relationship with him, you intentionally conceive a child. Why would you even consider being involved with him when you obviously still had feelings for your husband? Now you cry foul because he is hurt that you tossed him over to go back to your husband? Don't get me wrong, it is NEVER right to deny your child. But it is also never right to play musical men and bring a child into the mix. That is what you did. Now you have to live with the repercussions of your actions. And sadly, your daughter does too.

2. You continue to go on and on about how you want Rob to be part of his daughter's life and how Rob is her father. Have you not yet realized that Rob is nothing more than a sperm donor? Her father is the man who changes her diapers, holds her when she cries, plays with her and most importantly, LOVES her. You have a husband who is there and supporting and loving this child that is not biologically his and born of an affair his wife had (separated or not if you are married and sleep around it is an affair) and you want to whine about Rob not being around? Do you have any idea how lucky you are? Apparently not or you would hush and be greatful. Do you not see the damage you are doing to your husband by constantly reminding him that he is good enough to change a poopy diaper or buy baby food but not be her "dad"?

3. You want money from Rob. Okay, fair enough, your daughter is entitled to it. However, if you have a man there able and willing to support her who is being hurt by you constantly throwing this in his face why are you bothering? I'm not saying Rob shouldn't have to pay support but have you really considered the price you will pay for that money? Have you thought about how it will hurt your husband to hear about your battles with child support for the next 18 years? Have you ever considered just asking Rob to give up all parental rights and having your husband adopt your daughter?

I have to ask, have you considered your husband at all? You obviously didn't when you had an affair. You obviously aren't now when you are constantly obsessed with proving someone else to be her dad. You aren't when you work so hard to make this other man a part of your daughter's life.

I along with the other posters on here have seen how you are all over the map with this situation. It seems abundantly clear you have A LOT of unresolved issues with the whole thing. To put it simply, you really need to screw your head on straight. Things didn't work out quite how you planned. What in life really does? You have a beautiful daughter and a husband willing to raise her with you. Be greatful.

Furthermore, it seems you have some other issues you need to be dealing with. You have self-esteem, trust, loyalty and commitment issues. You NEED to deal with them. You have made mistakes, we all do. But only by learning from them and dealing with our issues can we make sure we don't repeat them. Or even worse, teach our children to make the same ones we do.

Give some serious consideration to a new counselor - not just for yourself, but for you and your husband. He sounds like a good man - deal with the things you need to deal with yourself and work on your relationship issues together. Forgive yourself for your mistakes and move on. Forgive yourself for picking a schmuck as a dad for your daughter and be proud of yourself for walking away from him and choosing a REAL man to be her father. Most of all, let this go - its costing you too much. In the end, is it really worth it? I think you know the answer to that.............

Laura no one is throwing you a pity party. You posted this situation here and made it very public. Doing so you invited the opinions and comments of the entire world.

Your posts on this subject have been all over the spectrum. You want him to be involved in her life - you don't want him to. You want child support - you don't want child support - you want child support only for a college fund...

The only thing that has been a consistent theme in your posts is the subject of Rob's feelings. This is why you see suspicion about your motives here.

You posted that your husband won't give you an opinion and turns away from the subject. Do you really wonder why??? If you review, at one point you proudly proclaimed the fact that your husband has shown nothing but love and care for your daughter - even sending messages asking how his little peanut is doing. Can you not see that he has bonded with this child and in his eyes he is the father? He turns away from the subject because he feels slighted and hurt that you are so passionate about your daughter knowing her "father" when he has become her father.

If you only knew just how rare it is for a man to bond with and accept a child they know not to be theirs, you would thank God for this man. By persisting in Rob "knowing" his daughter you take away from something very beautiful that he has done, without any necessity for him to have done so. You are hurting him, in the deepest part of himself - something he will never tell you.

Yes, there is merit to your daughter knowing who her father is - only for medical reasons. He should support her financially because as a man he has an obligation to do so. Visitation and support are two entirely separate issues in the eyes of the court. He should not visit her, this will only hurt your husband more each time.

He will never be your daughter's father. Your husband has already filled that role with greater integrity than Rob will ever show. You should respect that, and give him the credit he deserves for making this effort.

We all will be receiving the dna results on May 2nd. There is nothing I can do in which will be correct in anyone's opinion. If I say, give child support, then "I'm just after his money." If I say, come see your baby, then "I'm not over him."

My mom's illness has gone out of remission now. There is a chance we will end up losing the fight this time. That consistantly limits my family members to 1, myself. That's it. No family left. Over the years, I've watched them all die. Not to mention my grandparents, my best friend (the one true friend I did have in this life) and my own daughter. Punishment? Or just life? Either way, it feels one in the same.

I do not understand how I'm supposed to feel about the situation with Rob. As time presses on, I think she (Naomi) already knows her family. (her brother, sister, mama & daddy.) Having someone else (rob) come into her life in my opinion, would end up being a disaster. (either early on, or later in the years.) I was told that all I'm after is money from Rob for 18 years (from his mother, and now strangers.) I do not believe that to be accurate. I find it sad that Naomi's grandmother lives 2 blocks from us, and she refuses to see her grandchild. (but I'm tired of trying to convince people of my feelings.)

Family? I have hardly any, anymore.(I have strangers that I've married into, and I am grateful for.) If Rob wanted me back would I go? Honestly would I go? NO WAY on this God forsaken planet would I go anywhere close to being back with Rob. (I have given that question a lot of thought, and my resolve is.. Rob already knew of the hell I went through with my husband, and his family, when I turned up pregnant at such a young age. Rob already heard all the feelings of resentment that abandonment placed upon me at the young age of 15. Rob was always fiercely passionate about how he would NEVER do that, and couldn't even fathem those actions towards his own children.) Rob has already burnt that bridge.

I dont care if Rob has resentment - My resentment surpasses his minute, inexpressable, non emotional, cowardly, fallback feeling of resentment. My resentment has been in place as of March 21, 2005. Before that time, I was where I return to, lack of trust for all mankind. I opened up to one last person, one last time, and look what he did with that openess and trust. (the same thing EVERYONE eventually does.)

I dont trust anyone anymore. I dont trust my lawyer, (on my side aka - wants as much money as he can get from me) My husband (do what you think is best - I have no opinion - aka looking the other way - defense mode.) Rob (says one thing, does another aka run from the "crazy b") Counselor - (Apparently I was to honest for her. She acts as if I threw things in her office, and ran around like a crazy woman. We talked. She asked questions, I answered them. My fall, I was honest. The next thing I know, she is refusing to meet me for our scheduled sessions.) My money was good enough for her, as she had no problem cashing the check.
Should I seek the advice of another counselor? Why, I'm not allowed to be honest or they won't see me again. I got that message really clearly.

I know what everyone wants to hear - they DO NOT want to hear how you really feel. They WANT to hear, that you see things the way they are, and accept them the way they are, and you can "move forward." True Inner Feelings? What do they matter. Suppress them, and move on, pretending your existance matters. Always looking for that "higher power," to excel your existance into meaning.

My opinion, people will use whatever they can find weak in you, twist it, and turn it, until you have no fighting power left. At this point, do I care if Rob comes around to see his baby?.. (It will be interesting to watch what he starts talking about first -money or visitation.) I only care if she (Naomi) will care.

Have you ever felt uterly, and completely alone? I mean totally alone. Every time you reach out to someone, (family, strangers, and friends alike) they push you away after patting you on the back and telling you "we'll get through this together." The next thing you know, you are defending yourself, supressing your true feelings on the subject, and looking for approval. Everyone abandons you. Everyone leaves, it's just a matter of time.

I know poor pitty me right? Here I am, sitting at my computer, (this machine) talking to strangers, that dont even know me. (Playing the sympathy victim card right?)
Pleeeaase tell me your opinion, because you seem to know everything about my life! - I'm dying to hear what it is YOU have to say in the 2 minute thought you have given my life. Your not getting paid for your thoughts, and your time is precious, so dont waste it.

I'll post the results on here on May 2nd... Or you can read them now.. because I already know them.. Rob's "father". Here's what's going to happen.. Nothing. I will hand my lawyer another couple hundred dollars and tell him to start negotiations with Rob's attorney.. That'll be that. I'll say yes and no to superficial things - meaning the amounts of child support and medical insurance he can, and will be forced to, provide for his own daughter. It'll be business as usual - all in a day's work. That is what people are. That is what people REALLY do. All this sentemental jargon is just that. It means nothing to anyone really. Not truly.

Disclaimer - What do I know, I'm almost 30 now. (To young to know anything, and old enough to have known better to begin with.)
Now go back to eating your muffin, and tell your closest "friend" how you would react so much differently in this situation. - It'll make for good convo -as I was once told by a stranger in an earlier post.

Resolve?- None. Take what you can get and run. That seems to be more like what people really do to others. What a terrible place to raise children. I hate the realization of human interaction, and compassion. (or the lack thereof.) Do not mistake compassion for sympathy, or victimization. I am not a victim. I am a human being who has made plenty of mistakes. (aka trusting others)

I will suck it up, and continue to raise my children in this "wonderful" world - because that is all there is. Celebraties call that "a survivor" or "a fighter." I call that life.

Laura, reading your posts it is plainly evident that this entire issue reflects feelings you still have for this man, rather than concern over your daughter.

Your "dreamland" comment reflects this clearly. This is not about the well being of your daughter nearly as much as your continued blindness that this man does not want to be with you.

It is sad, but it seems you are using your daughter and want to continue to do so, to maintain contact with this man, in whatever form it may be.

There is much more to being a father than biology. Many men are fathers to non biological children and are much better fathers than this man will ever be. He has already denied the child until he was "forced" into a situation where he was tested and now must admit paternity. He will ALWAYS resent being forced, no matter what he says to you or what kind of "good face" he may put on if he decides to see the child. This is and will be damaging to the child. Children are VERY perceptive and observant from a very young age and may not clearly understand everything but they know when things are not as they should be.

I really suggest you move on. Either demand support from him or leave him totally alone. Expecting him to be a a part of the childs life if he is unwilling is not reasonable.

Laura, go back and read your other posts. Get angry with him again.

I do not understand why it is so important to you that this man be in Naomi's life. If your husband is a good husband to you and father to her, why does it matter what Rob does related to the results of the DNA? Rob is not a member of your family, yet you're treating him like he matters. Like he's key to your happiness! Recognize me his is only a sperm donor.

Further, wishing a praying that bio-dad is in your daughter's life creates a division between Naomi and your other children. Why do you want a division between your children?

It must be terribly painful for your husband to assume the role of daddy to Naomi yet his wife is longing for another man to play the role. Mind you, it's the man that has treated Naomi and Naomi's mommy like crap. That's how much consideration and appreciation his wife has given him. That must be a real hurting feeling.

I'm kinda wondering what are your true feelings for Rob. If you have a loving relationship with your husband, in my opinion Rob's actions would be almost transparent, meaning it does not matter what he does because Noami still has everything she needs and it has not effect on your life.

I really believe your distraction over Rob has more to do with your feelings moreso than the best thing for Naomi. Yeah, pursue your court case that is the right thing to do even if the motive is not as ultruistic as you would like to believe. Your self esteem will not be restored by the results of the DNA. That is something your are going to have to rebuild all on your own.

My advice to you is get your head straight. Come to terms with the end of the relationship with Rob. I think it's really important to ask and answer the questions: If Rob wanted you back would you go? Honestly, would you go?

Good luck

In all my life I've never known anyone to be so ignorant as to not understand the magnitude of a child's life. I wish all of this would end. I sent a letter to his mom back in February giving her the original copy of the dna test results on my husband. I do not understand how not one, but a whole entire family would turn their back on an innocent child. There is no cause for this. There is no real reasoning behind any of these actions.

Yes I get angry, and frustrated with the whole situation. I want Rob still to know his baby. I understand that I cannot force him to love her. I knew him though. I knew him in a way that this action from him makes no scense. I guess I was played, but there is a life here. A human life here. She will ask me questions about him. I only hope and pray for the best results in her life.

I still am not after a paycheck from him. When all the letters started a few months ago, I was told all I wanted was for Rob to pay child support for 18 years. That is not true. If I had a choice in the matter, I would give up any and all money he had to offer, for him to be involved with his daughter's life, for all her life.

I have been encouraged by my whole family to "nail his a*s to the wall" but that is not something that interests me. I am not a mean person. I don't want to go through courts, and go through all the hell that that will lead to. I don't believe we will have to. Rob has taken the test, and it's a matter of a few days until he has the results in his hands.

Yesterday I was wondering why I'm so nervous about this, and I finally figured it out. Giving Rob the benefit of the doubt, once he gets that test result, everything from then on out will matter to me. What he does, or doens't do for Naomi. If he chooses to see her, or not. Everything from that moment on will hurt ten times worse then anything he's thrown at me so far. Why, because I am giving him the benefit of the doubt, and saying ok, maybe he did have a doubt. Yes we could have resolved that doubt a year ago, but let's put it in the past, and say ok, it's a new start. You now know, and I know, and everyone now knows, that this baby belongs to you and me. So where do we go from here?

Again I will ask him to step into his place as her father. Again I will tell him that I want him to know her, and be a good father for her. He is her father, and she should know her father. What he does with the rest of her life, is up to him, and I only pray he chooses the best path for her. I dont want her to be hurt. I dont want her to wonder why daddy didn't love her enough to come around. I want her to be happy.

I dont know what he will choose, but my hope is that he will wake up and say ok, it's time, and step in and start to know his child. I am not blind, I can see the writing on the wall, I just cannot accept it until there is nothing left to accept.

About money? I guess some of it is. It's not my main concern, however, if that is all that she will get from him, it's better than nothing at all.

You know he doesn't have to pay child support, all he has to do, is work with me, and that can be avoided. He is making all of this so difficult, and I simply don't understand how this has become about money instead of Naomi.

Who's talking about jail? I'm not sending him to jail! I dont care if he's deliquent on his payments, it's not going to do Naomi any good if he's in jail!

Since when is it against the law to move? What are you talking about?

I, stupid as I am, still think that perhaps from his letter he pushed under my store door that once this dna test gets taken maybe he will open lines of communication with us, and he will venture to have a relationship with his daughter.

(Walk with me to dreamland for a second) Here it is friday, the sky is blue, the sun is out, and its a beautiful day. He has the day off. He's been relaxing on his sofa all morning in the arms of the woman that he loves. His life couldn't be more perfect, and he feels that in his heart. He desides to venture out a bit into the beautiful day. He watches a little black bird hop along the ground in his direction, and it puts a smile on his face. He stops and checks the mail, he sees the dna testing facility name at the top of the envelope. Butterflies churn in his stomach, he opens it, and reads 99.999% you are the father. A flood of emotion overwhelms him, I'm a father? How accurate is this? I'm a father? There must be a mistake.. I'm a father? Wow, I'm a father.. I'm a father! I have a daughter! He's still shocked, and overwhelmed as he heads toward his apartment. He hands the letter to his wife. She sees the look on his face, and they talk about his daughter, what he feels, what he thinks, what she wishes, what they will, and won't do. They are settled within themselves, and he ventures to call his mom, where she is stubborn but loves him, and wishes to do everything she can for her baby. Then, he picks up the phone again, and with a long sigh, he calls me, he says hi, I say hi, he says I just got the test results, and I'd like to see Naomi. That sounds good, I tell him, and we talk it over. Naomi has a great first birthday, with her WHOLE family in attendance. Naomi has a wonderful life. (End Dreamland)

I cannot read his mind, but as far as I'm concerned there are no battle lines that need to be drawn. We are talking about a little one who needs to know her father, and her father needs to do the right thing in reguards to his daughter.


Later-

Who's talking about jail? I'm not sending him to jail! I dont care if he's deliquent on his payments, it's not going to do Naomi any good if he's in jail!

Since when is it against the law to move? What are you talking about?

I, stupid as I am, still think that perhaps from his letter he pushed under my store door that once this dna test gets taken maybe he will open lines of communication with us, and he will venture to have a relationship with his daughter.

(Walk with me to dreamland for a second) Here it is friday, the sky is blue, the sun is out, and its a beautiful day. He has the day off. He's been relaxing on his sofa all morning in the arms of the woman that he loves. His life couldn't be more perfect, and he feels that in his heart. He desides to venture out a bit into the beautiful day. He watches a little black bird hop along the ground in his direction, and it puts a smile on his face. He stops and checks the mail, he sees the dna testing facility name at the top of the envelope. Butterflies churn in his stomach, he opens it, and reads 99.999% you are the father. A flood of emotion overwhelms him, I'm a father? How accurate is this? I'm a father? There must be a mistake.. I'm a father? Wow, I'm a father.. I'm a father! I have a daughter! He's still shocked, and overwhelmed as he heads toward his apartment. He hands the letter to his wife. She sees the look on his face, and they talk about his daughter, what he feels, what he thinks, what she wishes, what they will, and won't do. They are settled within themselves, and he ventures to call his mom, where she is stubborn but loves him, and wishes to do everything she can for her baby. Then, he picks up the phone again, and with a long sigh, he calls me, he says hi, I say hi, he says I just got the test results, and I'd like to see Naomi. That sounds good, I tell him, and we talk it over. Naomi has a great first birthday, with her WHOLE family in attendance. Naomi has a wonderful life. (End Dreamland)

I cannot read his mind, but as far as I'm concerned there are no battle lines that need to be drawn. We are talking about a little one who needs to know her father, and her father needs to do the right thing in reguards to his daughter.


Later-

Who's talking about jail? I'm not sending him to jail! I dont care if he's deliquent on his payments, it's not going to do Naomi any good if he's in jail!

Since when is it against the law to move? What are you talking about?

I, stupid as I am, still think that perhaps from his letter he pushed under my store door that once this dna test gets taken maybe he will open lines of communication with us, and he will venture to have a relationship with his daughter.

(Walk with me to dreamland for a second) Here it is friday, the sky is blue, the sun is out, and its a beautiful day. He has the day off. He's been relaxing on his sofa all morning in the arms of the woman that he loves. His life couldn't be more perfect, and he feels that in his heart. He desides to venture out a bit into the beautiful day. He watches a little black bird hop along the ground in his direction, and it puts a smile on his face. He stops and checks the mail, he sees the dna testing facility name at the top of the envelope. Butterflies churn in his stomach, he opens it, and reads 99.999% you are the father. A flood of emotion overwhelms him, I'm a father? How accurate is this? I'm a father? There must be a mistake.. I'm a father? Wow, I'm a father.. I'm a father! I have a daughter! He's still shocked, and overwhelmed as he heads toward his apartment. He hands the letter to his wife. She sees the look on his face, and they talk about his daughter, what he feels, what he thinks, what she wishes, what they will, and won't do. They are settled within themselves, and he ventures to call his mom, where she is stubborn but loves him, and wishes to do everything she can for her baby. Then, he picks up the phone again, and with a long sigh, he calls me, he says hi, I say hi, he says I just got the test results, and I'd like to see Naomi. That sounds good, I tell him, and we talk it over. Naomi has a great first birthday, with her WHOLE family in attendance. Naomi has a wonderful life. (End Dreamland)

I cannot read his mind, but as far as I'm concerned there are no battle lines that need to be drawn. We are talking about a little one who needs to know her father, and her father needs to do the right thing in reguards to his daughter.


Later-

Who's talking about jail? I'm not sending him to jail! I dont care if he's deliquent on his payments, it's not going to do Naomi any good if he's in jail!

Since when is it against the law to move? What are you talking about?

I, stupid as I am, still think that perhaps from his letter he pushed under my store door that once this dna test gets taken maybe he will open lines of communication with us, and he will venture to have a relationship with his daughter.

(Walk with me to dreamland for a second) Here it is friday, the sky is blue, the sun is out, and its a beautiful day. He has the day off. He's been relaxing on his sofa all morning in the arms of the woman that he loves. His life couldn't be more perfect, and he feels that in his heart. He desides to venture out a bit into the beautiful day. He watches a little black bird hop along the ground in his direction, and it puts a smile on his face. He stops and checks the mail, he sees the dna testing facility name at the top of the envelope. Butterflies churn in his stomach, he opens it, and reads 99.999% you are the father. A flood of emotion overwhelms him, I'm a father? How accurate is this? I'm a father? There must be a mistake.. I'm a father? Wow, I'm a father.. I'm a father! I have a daughter! He's still shocked, and overwhelmed as he heads toward his apartment. He hands the letter to his wife. She sees the look on his face, and they talk about his daughter, what he feels, what he thinks, what she wishes, what they will, and won't do. They are settled within themselves, and he ventures to call his mom, where she is stubborn but loves him, and wishes to do everything she can for her baby. Then, he picks up the phone again, and with a long sigh, he calls me, he says hi, I say hi, he says I just got the test results, and I'd like to see Naomi. That sounds good, I tell him, and we talk it over. Naomi has a great first birthday, with her WHOLE family in attendance. Naomi has a wonderful life. (End Dreamland)

I cannot read his mind, but as far as I'm concerned there are no battle lines that need to be drawn. We are talking about a little one who needs to know her father, and her father needs to do the right thing in reguards to his daughter.


Later-

The battle lines are drawn now, and the DNA test could potentially change his life for quite a few years, possibly landing him in jail if he so much as loses a job or moves. His neck is in a noose if he's the real father, and he has nothing more to lose by dragging his feet at this point. In your post you said that you told him you wouldn't ask him for support. Who did you plan on paying support, the taxpayers? Your new man? Or do you just make a lot on money? He wanted a new life, free of you, but he screwed up and has to pay the price now. The power to disrupt his life at will is in your hands and you know it, just don't enjoy it too much.

Well it looks as if Rob will "know" he has a daughter two weeks before her 1st birthday.

The appointment has been set.

What a loser. We'll see what happens when he "knows" let me guess... NOTHING because he's a liar who's words mean about as much as slime on the bottom of the ocean.

Later-

Your probably right. The feelings that I have now, compared to the feelings I had when I first started this thread are different. Some remain the same. There is anger involved. I am angry, but mostly I'm angry because he wont see her. Or am I? I dont know if that would be the best thing for her or not at this point. I would still try to work with him at this time, but Naomi needs to be safe, even with bio dad.
The more I think about things the more I realize I am just doing what the next step is, rather than thinking about the long term, because at this point.. I dont know what the long term will be. That is completely up to Rob STILL.

What I believe will come of all of this is Rob will pay his child support (because it will be forced from him)(complain about it, and blame me for why he can't pay his bills) and still be gone from Naomi's life. Is there any harm in that? What is the harm in that? It's sad, but it's better than him being gone with nothing to give to Naomi.

If I had it my way, I would still have him voluntarily support his daughter. If I had it my way he would be coming over and working on a relationship with his daughter. This is not my way. I have no control over what Rob does. I cannot make him love his daughter anymore today than I could a year ago. I've tried. It doesn't work. He doesn't care for her right now in her life. I do not know if that will change.

What I failed to mention a year ago was I was sad. I was hurt. I was beaten down emotionally.I was crying myself to sleep at night, and now I can say even heartbroken. To be honest, I felt like I had not only lost a close friend, but it was somehow my doing that I had lost Naomi's father for her, and in turn, lost any connection she may have had to her extended family members.

I was not the only one gonig through this at the time. My other two children were hurt as well, as they felt abandoned by Rob leaving as suddenly as he did. He acted like he was their best friend as well. We were all going through a healing process.

Now this resolve may not be the best resolve there could be. But at least it is closure. It is the only resolve that can be according to Rob's actions.

What can I change? Walk away from what? Gaining what could potentially be (if nothing else) a life long financial security for Naomi? Why would I do that to her? What would that benefit her?

You know, the last verbal conversation I had with Rob over a year ago I told him I wanted him involved with his daughter, but if he chose to walk away, I wanted nothing from him except for him to put a small amount of money into a fund every month for Naomi for college, and send us a report showing us of it's growth. That is when he said.. if I have to pay for her, I will get custody. I knew he was walking away then. I tried to get him to change his mind, come to his scenses. I even thought maybe his mother, or new girlfriend was putting this into his head, and he was following other people's advice. I didn't know what he was doing, or why. His actions were like day and night. I even thought maybe he took up drugs, because he was so different. It was out of character for him to abandon his own daughter. That was not Rob. That was not the Rob I knew even a little bit.

That is what started this whole "money" issue. Even after that, I DID.. I STILL DO.. want him in her life in other ways besides just paying money. I wanted him to come over and know her. I wanted Naomi to know her step mother, and her 1/2 brothers & sisters (if they are out there) and I wanted to do it all out of court.

I sent email after email asking him.. maybe even begging him, to think about Naomi, how his absence would affect her life. I sent him numerous letters trying to get him to be involved with Naomi.

What did ANY of that accomplish? Nothing. He still hasn't seen her. He's ignored everything I've ever sent to him, his mom, anyone to listen to how this course of action may affect Naomi's life in the long run. None of them care. The only replies I have ever received were hurtful, and vengeful, and stay away. From not only Rob, but also his mother, and wife.

What I am left with is this. I may be able to get a fund for Naomi but that is all I will be able to get from Rob, probably in all of Naomi's life. Now I could continue to cry, moan, and complain, about how rob abandoned Naomi, but what good does that do for her, or my emotional state? Nothing. So.. instead, I opt for sanity, and I wait to hear what Rob has to say, and what he plans to do, after a dna test is completed for his satisfaction of parenthood.

The dna test that was taken between my husband and myself was merely because Rob said the baby was my husband's. Even after that dna test proved my husband not to be the father, he tried to hide behind the presumption law. He has no desire to be in her life. Now he is taking a dna test. I thought maybe he was changing his mind, and we could all relax and finally do this amicably without attorney's. I was wrong. He still won't talk to me about Naomi. He still won't visit her. He still is denying her. From the history here.. even after the dna test is completed he still won't be involved with Naomi's life.

What is left? Money.. that's it. I can't force him to love his daughter. I can't force him to be a part of her life. Even after he had already retained an attorney.. I retained an attorney, but I told my attorney I was not after child support, at this time, (to my attorney's dismay) I told him I wanted Rob involved with his daughter's life. My attorney sent Rob a letter indicating my intentions were not to gain support, but to have him claim Naomi as his, and be involved with her life.

His reply.. "Baby's not mine. Presumption law makes it so."
Now that the presumption law does not work in his favor, he has chosen to take a dna test, as long as I pay for it. I did pay for it. He is supposed to take one now. I thought maybe now he will be involved with Naomi's life. Maybe now he will want to see her. Maybe now, he has finally come to understand that Naomi is his baby, the baby he so badly longed for. (at least at the time)

His actions say.. no way. I would have to be a fool to really think that this dna test means anything to him. This dna test means less money to him. Less money out of pocket to pay his attorney. Less money out of pocket right now. He was going to lose in court, and end up having to pay my attorney fees, and his dna test as well, so he opted for less money out of pocket and submit himself to a dna test. I agreed to keep it out of court for the sake of Naomi (obviously not for my pocketbook) and didn't sue him.

You know, after the dna test, I still have the option to say I dont want your money. I just wanted you to claim her for once in your life. The options are not gone. The dna test will let him know in his heart that he has, and continues, to turn his back on her daily. Just a thought for all you judgemental people out there.

A mission - no I dont believe I'm on a mission to "make rob pay" I am angry at a few things, but when it's all said and done, at the end of the day, I believe I'm doing the right thing with the options I have to work with at this time.

As for my husband - Someone said how convienent for the dna test to prove that my husband wasn't the father of Naomi?

**so great that we had to have a dna test to prove paternity.... how convenient)

What the hell is that supposed to mean? It's my husband's fault that we weren't together, and Rob and I chose to have a baby together? The only reason that test was ever taken was because Rob was hiding behind our marriage, and trying to get out of responsability yet again, or still. All that, to my husband, was yet another stab in the back from Rob.

My husband has not forgiven Rob, and probably won't. But my husband has stated & shown it is NOT Naomi's fault, he loves Naomi. He shows this daily when he comes home from work and scoops her up in his arms and says how's daddy's baby girl doing today.

He shows this when he crawls all over the house chasing her and making her laugh her little heart out.

He shows this daily, when he feeds her, and rocks her to sleep in the evenings. He shows this daily when he sends me a text message asking me how his "little peanut" is doing today. (The Dr. called her that because she was so small when she was born, and that's been her nickname from daddy ever since.)So please, Don't condemn my husband because he doesn't want Rob to be able to treat baby Naomi like garbage.

We are doing what is in Naomi's best interest. Not our own. As we would do for ANY of our children, at ANY time in their lives.

Your probably right. The feelings that I have now, compared to the feelings I had when I first started this thread are different. Some remain the same. There is anger involved. I am angry, but mostly I'm angry because he wont see her. Or am I? I dont know if that would be the best thing for her or not at this point. I would still try to work with him at this time, but Naomi needs to be safe, even with bio dad.
The more I think about things the more I realize I am just doing what the next step is, rather than thinking about the long term, because at this point.. I dont know what the long term will be. That is completely up to Rob STILL.

What I believe will come of all of this is Rob will pay his child support (because it will be forced from him)(complain about it, and blame me for why he can't pay his bills) and still be gone from Naomi's life. Is there any harm in that? What is the harm in that? It's sad, but it's better than him being gone with nothing to give to Naomi.

If I had it my way, I would still have him voluntarily support his daughter. If I had it my way he would be coming over and working on a relationship with his daughter. This is not my way. I have no control over what Rob does. I cannot make him love his daughter anymore today than I could a year ago. I've tried. It doesn't work. He doesn't care for her right now in her life. I do not know if that will change.

What I failed to mention a year ago was I was sad. I was hurt. I was beaten down emotionally.I was crying myself to sleep at night, and now I can say even heartbroken. To be honest, I felt like I had not only lost a close friend, but it was somehow my doing that I had lost Naomi's father for her, and in turn, lost any connection she may have had to her extended family members.

I was not the only one gonig through this at the time. My other two children were hurt as well, as they felt abandoned by Rob leaving as suddenly as he did. He acted like he was their best friend as well. We were all going through a healing process.

Now this resolve may not be the best resolve there could be. But at least it is closure. It is the only resolve that can be according to Rob's actions.

What can I change? Walk away from what? Gaining what could potentially be (if nothing else) a life long financial security for Naomi? Why would I do that to her? What would that benefit her?

You know, the last verbal conversation I had with Rob over a year ago I told him I wanted him involved with his daughter, but if he chose to walk away, I wanted nothing from him except for him to put a small amount of money into a fund every month for Naomi for college, and send us a report showing us of it's growth. That is when he said.. if I have to pay for her, I will get custody. I knew he was walking away then. I tried to get him to change his mind, come to his scenses. I even thought maybe his mother, or new girlfriend was putting this into his head, and he was following other people's advice. I didn't know what he was doing, or why. His actions were like day and night. I even thought maybe he took up drugs, because he was so different. It was out of character for him to abandon his own daughter. That was not Rob. That was not the Rob I knew even a little bit.

That is what started this whole "money" issue. Even after that, I DID.. I STILL DO.. want him in her life in other ways besides just paying money. I wanted him to come over and know her. I wanted Naomi to know her step mother, and her 1/2 brothers & sisters (if they are out there) and I wanted to do it all out of court.

I sent email after email asking him.. maybe even begging him, to think about Naomi, how his absence would affect her life. I sent him numerous letters trying to get him to be involved with Naomi.

What did ANY of that accomplish? Nothing. He still hasn't seen her. He's ignored everything I've ever sent to him, his mom, anyone to listen to how this course of action may affect Naomi's life in the long run. None of them care. The only replies I have ever received were hurtful, and vengeful, and stay away. From not only Rob, but also his mother, and wife.

What I am left with is this. I may be able to get a fund for Naomi but that is all I will be able to get from Rob, probably in all of Naomi's life. Now I could continue to cry, moan, and complain, about how rob abandoned Naomi, but what good does that do for her, or my emotional state? Nothing. So.. instead, I opt for sanity, and I wait to hear what Rob has to say, and what he plans to do, after a dna test is completed for his satisfaction of parenthood.

The dna test that was taken between my husband and myself was merely because Rob said the baby was my husband's. Even after that dna test proved my husband not to be the father, he tried to hide behind the presumption law. He has no desire to be in her life. Now he is taking a dna test. I thought maybe he was changing his mind, and we could all relax and finally do this amicably without attorney's. I was wrong. He still won't talk to me about Naomi. He still won't visit her. He still is denying her. From the history here.. even after the dna test is completed he still won't be involved with Naomi's life.

What is left? Money.. that's it. I can't force him to love his daughter. I can't force him to be a part of her life. Even after he had already retained an attorney.. I retained an attorney, but I told my attorney I was not after child support, at this time, (to my attorney's dismay) I told him I wanted Rob involved with his daughter's life. My attorney sent Rob a letter indicating my intentions were not to gain support, but to have him claim Naomi as his, and be involved with her life.

His reply.. "Baby's not mine. Presumption law makes it so."
Now that the presumption law does not work in his favor, he has chosen to take a dna test, as long as I pay for it. I did pay for it. He is supposed to take one now. I thought maybe now he will be involved with Naomi's life. Maybe now he will want to see her. Maybe now, he has finally come to understand that Naomi is his baby, the baby he so badly longed for. (at least at the time)

His actions say.. no way. I would have to be a fool to really think that this dna test means anything to him. This dna test means less money to him. Less money out of pocket to pay his attorney. Less money out of pocket right now. He was going to lose in court, and end up having to pay my attorney fees, and his dna test as well, so he opted for less money out of pocket and submit himself to a dna test. I agreed to keep it out of court for the sake of Naomi (obviously not for my pocketbook) and didn't sue him.

You know, after the dna test, I still have the option to say I dont want your money. I just wanted you to claim her for once in your life. The options are not gone. The dna test will let him know in his heart that he has, and continues, to turn his back on her daily. Just a thought for all you judgemental people out there.

A mission - no I dont believe I'm on a mission to "make rob pay" I am angry at a few things, but when it's all said and done, at the end of the day, I believe I'm doing the right thing with the options I have to work with at this time.

As for my husband - Someone said how convienent for the dna test to prove that my husband wasn't the father of Naomi?

**so great that we had to have a dna test to prove paternity.... how convenient)

What the hell is that supposed to mean? It's my husband's fault that we weren't together, and Rob and I chose to have a baby together? The only reason that test was ever taken was because Rob was hiding behind our marriage, and trying to get out of responsability yet again, or still. All that, to my husband, was yet another stab in the back from Rob.

My husband has not forgiven Rob, and probably won't. But my husband has stated & shown it is NOT Naomi's fault, he loves Naomi. He shows this daily when he comes home from work and scoops her up in his arms and says how's daddy's baby girl doing today.

He shows this when he crawls all over the house chasing her and making her laugh her little heart out.

He shows this daily, when he feeds her, and rocks her to sleep in the evenings. He shows this daily when he sends me a text message asking me how his "little peanut" is doing today. (The Dr. called her that because she was so small when she was born, and that's been her nickname from daddy ever since.)So please, Don't condemn my husband because he doesn't want Rob to be able to treat baby Naomi like garbage.

We are doing what is in Naomi's best interest. Not our own. As we would do for ANY of our children, at ANY time in their lives.

Your probably right. The feelings that I have now, compared to the feelings I had when I first started this thread are different. Some remain the same. There is anger involved. I am angry, but mostly I'm angry because he wont see her. Or am I? I dont know if that would be the best thing for her or not at this point. I would still try to work with him at this time, but Naomi needs to be safe, even with bio dad.
The more I think about things the more I realize I am just doing what the next step is, rather than thinking about the long term, because at this point.. I dont know what the long term will be. That is completely up to Rob STILL.

What I believe will come of all of this is Rob will pay his child support (because it will be forced from him)(complain about it, and blame me for why he can't pay his bills) and still be gone from Naomi's life. Is there any harm in that? What is the harm in that? It's sad, but it's better than him being gone with nothing to give to Naomi.

If I had it my way, I would still have him voluntarily support his daughter. If I had it my way he would be coming over and working on a relationship with his daughter. This is not my way. I have no control over what Rob does. I cannot make him love his daughter anymore today than I could a year ago. I've tried. It doesn't work. He doesn't care for her right now in her life. I do not know if that will change.

What I failed to mention a year ago was I was sad. I was hurt. I was beaten down emotionally.I was crying myself to sleep at night, and now I can say even heartbroken. To be honest, I felt like I had not only lost a close friend, but it was somehow my doing that I had lost Naomi's father for her, and in turn, lost any connection she may have had to her extended family members.

I was not the only one gonig through this at the time. My other two children were hurt as well, as they felt abandoned by Rob leaving as suddenly as he did. He acted like he was their best friend as well. We were all going through a healing process.

Now this resolve may not be the best resolve there could be. But at least it is closure. It is the only resolve that can be according to Rob's actions.

What can I change? Walk away from what? Gaining what could potentially be (if nothing else) a life long financial security for Naomi? Why would I do that to her? What would that benefit her?

You know, the last verbal conversation I had with Rob over a year ago I told him I wanted him involved with his daughter, but if he chose to walk away, I wanted nothing from him except for him to put a small amount of money into a fund every month for Naomi for college, and send us a report showing us of it's growth. That is when he said.. if I have to pay for her, I will get custody. I knew he was walking away then. I tried to get him to change his mind, come to his scenses. I even thought maybe his mother, or new girlfriend was putting this into his head, and he was following other people's advice. I didn't know what he was doing, or why. His actions were like day and night. I even thought maybe he took up drugs, because he was so different. It was out of character for him to abandon his own daughter. That was not Rob. That was not the Rob I knew even a little bit.

That is what started this whole "money" issue. Even after that, I DID.. I STILL DO.. want him in her life in other ways besides just paying money. I wanted him to come over and know her. I wanted Naomi to know her step mother, and her 1/2 brothers & sisters (if they are out there) and I wanted to do it all out of court.

I sent email after email asking him.. maybe even begging him, to think about Naomi, how his absence would affect her life. I sent him numerous letters trying to get him to be involved with Naomi.

What did ANY of that accomplish? Nothing. He still hasn't seen her. He's ignored everything I've ever sent to him, his mom, anyone to listen to how this course of action may affect Naomi's life in the long run. None of them care. The only replies I have ever received were hurtful, and vengeful, and stay away. From not only Rob, but also his mother, and wife.

What I am left with is this. I may be able to get a fund for Naomi but that is all I will be able to get from Rob, probably in all of Naomi's life. Now I could continue to cry, moan, and complain, about how rob abandoned Naomi, but what good does that do for her, or my emotional state? Nothing. So.. instead, I opt for sanity, and I wait to hear what Rob has to say, and what he plans to do, after a dna test is completed for his satisfaction of parenthood.

The dna test that was taken between my husband and myself was merely because Rob said the baby was my husband's. Even after that dna test proved my husband not to be the father, he tried to hide behind the presumption law. He has no desire to be in her life. Now he is taking a dna test. I thought maybe he was changing his mind, and we could all relax and finally do this amicably without attorney's. I was wrong. He still won't talk to me about Naomi. He still won't visit her. He still is denying her. From the history here.. even after the dna test is completed he still won't be involved with Naomi's life.

What is left? Money.. that's it. I can't force him to love his daughter. I can't force him to be a part of her life. Even after he had already retained an attorney.. I retained an attorney, but I told my attorney I was not after child support, at this time, (to my attorney's dismay) I told him I wanted Rob involved with his daughter's life. My attorney sent Rob a letter indicating my intentions were not to gain support, but to have him claim Naomi as his, and be involved with her life.

His reply.. "Baby's not mine. Presumption law makes it so."
Now that the presumption law does not work in his favor, he has chosen to take a dna test, as long as I pay for it. I did pay for it. He is supposed to take one now. I thought maybe now he will be involved with Naomi's life. Maybe now he will want to see her. Maybe now, he has finally come to understand that Naomi is his baby, the baby he so badly longed for. (at least at the time)

His actions say.. no way. I would have to be a fool to really think that this dna test means anything to him. This dna test means less money to him. Less money out of pocket to pay his attorney. Less money out of pocket right now. He was going to lose in court, and end up having to pay my attorney fees, and his dna test as well, so he opted for less money out of pocket and submit himself to a dna test. I agreed to keep it out of court for the sake of Naomi (obviously not for my pocketbook) and didn't sue him.

You know, after the dna test, I still have the option to say I dont want your money. I just wanted you to claim her for once in your life. The options are not gone. The dna test will let him know in his heart that he has, and continues, to turn his back on her daily. Just a thought for all you judgemental people out there.

A mission - no I dont believe I'm on a mission to "make rob pay" I am angry at a few things, but when it's all said and done, at the end of the day, I believe I'm doing the right thing with the options I have to work with at this time.

As for my husband - Someone said how convienent for the dna test to prove that my husband wasn't the father of Naomi?

**so great that we had to have a dna test to prove paternity.... how convenient)

What the hell is that supposed to mean? It's my husband's fault that we weren't together, and Rob and I chose to have a baby together? The only reason that test was ever taken was because Rob was hiding behind our marriage, and trying to get out of responsability yet again, or still. All that, to my husband, was yet another stab in the back from Rob.

My husband has not forgiven Rob, and probably won't. But my husband has stated & shown it is NOT Naomi's fault, he loves Naomi. He shows this daily when he comes home from work and scoops her up in his arms and says how's daddy's baby girl doing today.

He shows this when he crawls all over the house chasing her and making her laugh her little heart out.

He shows this daily, when he feeds her, and rocks her to sleep in the evenings. He shows this daily when he sends me a text message asking me how his "little peanut" is doing today. (The Dr. called her that because she was so small when she was born, and that's been her nickname from daddy ever since.)So please, Don't condemn my husband because he doesn't want Rob to be able to treat baby Naomi like garbage.

We are doing what is in Naomi's best interest. Not our own. As we would do for ANY of our children, at ANY time in their lives.

Your probably right. The feelings that I have now, compared to the feelings I had when I first started this thread are different. Some remain the same. There is anger involved. I am angry, but mostly I'm angry because he wont see her. Or am I? I dont know if that would be the best thing for her or not at this point. I would still try to work with him at this time, but Naomi needs to be safe, even with bio dad.
The more I think about things the more I realize I am just doing what the next step is, rather than thinking about the long term, because at this point.. I dont know what the long term will be. That is completely up to Rob STILL.

What I believe will come of all of this is Rob will pay his child support (because it will be forced from him)(complain about it, and blame me for why he can't pay his bills) and still be gone from Naomi's life. Is there any harm in that? What is the harm in that? It's sad, but it's better than him being gone with nothing to give to Naomi.

If I had it my way, I would still have him voluntarily support his daughter. If I had it my way he would be coming over and working on a relationship with his daughter. This is not my way. I have no control over what Rob does. I cannot make him love his daughter anymore today than I could a year ago. I've tried. It doesn't work. He doesn't care for her right now in her life. I do not know if that will change.

What I failed to mention a year ago was I was sad. I was hurt. I was beaten down emotionally.I was crying myself to sleep at night, and now I can say even heartbroken. To be honest, I felt like I had not only lost a close friend, but it was somehow my doing that I had lost Naomi's father for her, and in turn, lost any connection she may have had to her extended family members.

I was not the only one gonig through this at the time. My other two children were hurt as well, as they felt abandoned by Rob leaving as suddenly as he did. He acted like he was their best friend as well. We were all going through a healing process.

Now this resolve may not be the best resolve there could be. But at least it is closure. It is the only resolve that can be according to Rob's actions.

What can I change? Walk away from what? Gaining what could potentially be (if nothing else) a life long financial security for Naomi? Why would I do that to her? What would that benefit her?

You know, the last verbal conversation I had with Rob over a year ago I told him I wanted him involved with his daughter, but if he chose to walk away, I wanted nothing from him except for him to put a small amount of money into a fund every month for Naomi for college, and send us a report showing us of it's growth. That is when he said.. if I have to pay for her, I will get custody. I knew he was walking away then. I tried to get him to change his mind, come to his scenses. I even thought maybe his mother, or new girlfriend was putting this into his head, and he was following other people's advice. I didn't know what he was doing, or why. His actions were like day and night. I even thought maybe he took up drugs, because he was so different. It was out of character for him to abandon his own daughter. That was not Rob. That was not the Rob I knew even a little bit.

That is what started this whole "money" issue. Even after that, I DID.. I STILL DO.. want him in her life in other ways besides just paying money. I wanted him to come over and know her. I wanted Naomi to know her step mother, and her 1/2 brothers & sisters (if they are out there) and I wanted to do it all out of court.

I sent email after email asking him.. maybe even begging him, to think about Naomi, how his absence would affect her life. I sent him numerous letters trying to get him to be involved with Naomi.

What did ANY of that accomplish? Nothing. He still hasn't seen her. He's ignored everything I've ever sent to him, his mom, anyone to listen to how this course of action may affect Naomi's life in the long run. None of them care. The only replies I have ever received were hurtful, and vengeful, and stay away. From not only Rob, but also his mother, and wife.

What I am left with is this. I may be able to get a fund for Naomi but that is all I will be able to get from Rob, probably in all of Naomi's life. Now I could continue to cry, moan, and complain, about how rob abandoned Naomi, but what good does that do for her, or my emotional state? Nothing. So.. instead, I opt for sanity, and I wait to hear what Rob has to say, and what he plans to do, after a dna test is completed for his satisfaction of parenthood.

The dna test that was taken between my husband and myself was merely because Rob said the baby was my husband's. Even after that dna test proved my husband not to be the father, he tried to hide behind the presumption law. He has no desire to be in her life. Now he is taking a dna test. I thought maybe he was changing his mind, and we could all relax and finally do this amicably without attorney's. I was wrong. He still won't talk to me about Naomi. He still won't visit her. He still is denying her. From the history here.. even after the dna test is completed he still won't be involved with Naomi's life.

What is left? Money.. that's it. I can't force him to love his daughter. I can't force him to be a part of her life. Even after he had already retained an attorney.. I retained an attorney, but I told my attorney I was not after child support, at this time, (to my attorney's dismay) I told him I wanted Rob involved with his daughter's life. My attorney sent Rob a letter indicating my intentions were not to gain support, but to have him claim Naomi as his, and be involved with her life.

His reply.. "Baby's not mine. Presumption law makes it so."
Now that the presumption law does not work in his favor, he has chosen to take a dna test, as long as I pay for it. I did pay for it. He is supposed to take one now. I thought maybe now he will be involved with Naomi's life. Maybe now he will want to see her. Maybe now, he has finally come to understand that Naomi is his baby, the baby he so badly longed for. (at least at the time)

His actions say.. no way. I would have to be a fool to really think that this dna test means anything to him. This dna test means less money to him. Less money out of pocket to pay his attorney. Less money out of pocket right now. He was going to lose in court, and end up having to pay my attorney fees, and his dna test as well, so he opted for less money out of pocket and submit himself to a dna test. I agreed to keep it out of court for the sake of Naomi (obviously not for my pocketbook) and didn't sue him.

You know, after the dna test, I still have the option to say I dont want your money. I just wanted you to claim her for once in your life. The options are not gone. The dna test will let him know in his heart that he has, and continues, to turn his back on her daily. Just a thought for all you judgemental people out there.

A mission - no I dont believe I'm on a mission to "make rob pay" I am angry at a few things, but when it's all said and done, at the end of the day, I believe I'm doing the right thing with the options I have to work with at this time.

As for my husband - Someone said how convienent for the dna test to prove that my husband wasn't the father of Naomi?

**so great that we had to have a dna test to prove paternity.... how convenient)

What the hell is that supposed to mean? It's my husband's fault that we weren't together, and Rob and I chose to have a baby together? The only reason that test was ever taken was because Rob was hiding behind our marriage, and trying to get out of responsability yet again, or still. All that, to my husband, was yet another stab in the back from Rob.

My husband has not forgiven Rob, and probably won't. But my husband has stated & shown it is NOT Naomi's fault, he loves Naomi. He shows this daily when he comes home from work and scoops her up in his arms and says how's daddy's baby girl doing today.

He shows this when he crawls all over the house chasing her and making her laugh her little heart out.

He shows this daily, when he feeds her, and rocks her to sleep in the evenings. He shows this daily when he sends me a text message asking me how his "little peanut" is doing today. (The Dr. called her that because she was so small when she was born, and that's been her nickname from daddy ever since.)So please, Don't condemn my husband because he doesn't want Rob to be able to treat baby Naomi like garbage.

We are doing what is in Naomi's best interest. Not our own. As we would do for ANY of our children, at ANY time in their lives.

Which is is, 9 or 14 years? 9 years married. Met in high school have a baby together who is now almost 14 yrs old. We got married when I was 20 yrs. old then we had our son.

As you can see, throughout this thread, many things have changed. You teeter-totter from one side to the other, not staying true to what you say were your intentions. -Your right I was heartbroken, and confused at HOW a father who begged for a baby convincing me to get off birth control and then running away as fast as he could when it suited his life better to not have Naomi in it could do such a horrible thing. I thought he was at least my friend, and a good father.

This should make for an interesting conversation. And before you start ranting about how a father should be responsible (remembering that you can't force emotional responsibility),

YOUR RIGHT THERE... SO WHAT IS LEFT? Monetary responsability.


think about how many children are in loving homes, with loving families that spent thousands of dollars to GET that child(ren) into their home and support said child for 18-20 years out of their own pocketbook. These are not the biological parents, and instead of pursuing and prosecuting the biological parents, they praise them for the responsibility that they've shown in giving up a child that they couldn't or wouldn't care for properly, and they feel blessed every moment of every day for the child that they call son or daughter.

Sounds good - the next time I ADOPT a child I will praise the biological parents. You know if Naomi was even an "ACCIDENT" I wouldn't be this suprised, and hurt at Rob's abandonment towards his own daughter. I was told so many things about how badly he wanted a child, and how he never could have one. I was told so many (now lies) about how badly he desired to have a baby with me.

I sense bitterness and revenge becoming the catalyst in this situation. - In time that is what stompped on HUMAN people end up feeling.

Now the truth comes out. Hubby has issues that haven't been dealt with. He feels betrayed. - You bet he does. Rob worked for my husband for two years and we opened up our home to him, to come over with our other friends to play board games. Where he flirted with me constantly. Then he would follow me around the business, he told me things, he started getting into my head, it took him all of 2 years to get me to even talk to him about things. (ie. my marriage) Once that was in place my "friend" Rob started talking to me via internet and so forth about my marriage.. About 10 months later my marriage was in trouble, and my husband and I had seperated. As I felt I needed a "friend" in my life during that time, I turned to Rob my "friend" Where eventually we began dating.

About 8 months into dating Rob, he started begging me for a baby with him. I was still talking to my husband often as we had children together, and worked together, (although Rob was eventually fired- for non related issues.) I eventually left my business, and got a different job. All to break the ties between my husband and myself. (other than that of our 2 children whom my husband payed child support OUTSIDE OF COURT, and came over every other day to take them swimming, or to dinner, or to just hang out with them.

I became pregnant with Naomi, and Rob began cheating on me. seeing many "friends," staying with "friends" in hotels at the coast, going to the mountains with "friends" ect. ect. "Dropping off a "movie" at a local restaurant, and then taking his "friend" home with him instead of the "innocent way it was told to me before hand."

I then turned to my only true friend my husband. We then worked on our marriage, and went to counseling. That is when Rob tried to play perfect father, and I encouraged him.(talking to the baby in the womb, coming over for visitation to be involved with the birthing process, buying diapers, blankets, ect..)

It all took a turn the day he tried to hold my hand on one visitation day, and when I told him I do not belong to him anymore, he chose then to start blaming me for his lack of visitation. He would not show up.. I would call him an hour after he was scheduled to arrive, where he would say he thought I was coming to his house instead. I would not go alone, therefore that was not acceptable by him either.

Rob walked out of our lives on March 21 2005 (less than two months before I gave birth to Naomi) via an email he sent, and one phone call where he said (if I have to pay for her I will get custody) he moved out of the city and Now he wants nothing to do with Naomi. THAT is what I am not letting him get away with. I feel he has ONE SOLE responsability still left here to deal with.. and THAT IS NAOMI.

I contacted him when I was going into the hospital - to let him know, and hopefully he would come to his scenses then.. where his new girlfriend texted my phone and said.. let us know how it goes. Rob never showed up. Rob has YET to see his baby once.

I'm not here to convince you anyway. I do what I do each day for the benefit of my daughter. Yes it has to be about money because he will not see her, or know her. If he called me up today I would probably STILL work with him, to let him have a relationship with his daughter. I did not walk away, I did not abandon her.. If I did I would expect to at minimum pay child support for her, and would voluntarily do so without a fight. So maybe aim your judgements at the one who has the means to support his baby but would rather spend his money on an attorney to avoid ANY responsability now and forever. He is the one dragging this on and on. Rob is the one that is dragging this through court. I tried to work with him outside of court for as long as I could. If you've read my posts you will see where AGAIN I tried to get him involved emotionally with Naomi. I went to his house with Naomi to have him at least meet her once in his life, where he wasn't home, we left a note on his door, and his only reply was "VIA MY LAWYER" stay away. you can read his full reply on an earlier post.

Why anyone would want to nit pick at my posts because they do not carefully read them, and understand that THIS IS an emotional HELL to begin with obviously has not been through anything like this. I chose my course of actions, and I don't lay blame on Rob or anyone else for MY actions. However, their actions I WILL NOT TAKE the blame for anymore than they should take the blame for my actions.

You want to know the truth of it all - I feel used, betrayed, washed up, and left to die by Rob. He was supposed to be my friend, he was supposed to be here through it all, he should have stuck it out for his baby girl Naomi. He was supposed to NOT walk away. He was supposed to come over pick up his daughter take her to grandma's house to a bbq. He was supposed to pick Naomi up take her to his brother's house so she could grow up knowing her cousins. He was supposed to LOVE his daughter and take care of HER the best he could.

Of course I'm angry - because hurt eventually turns to anger. Of course my husband feels betrayed - he was HIS friend first.

Oh, and ask Naomi, as an adult, which she would have rather had.......a mother and father functioning as a loving family, realizing that her biological father was not interested in being a part of her life, - That is what she has now.

or a court order and heaven knows how many court appearances (including enforcement proceeding which I'm sure will be numerous), to make her biological father 'pay' for walking out of her life. - she will not go to them, and it would seem, the course of actions that are taking place now, it will not go to court. Once the dna test is completed, we come to an agreement reguarding support, visitation, all via our attorney's and then we stick to it.

The end result here, is exactly what could have been done without any attorney's a year ago. This is what I was trying to accomplish. I wanted him either 1. Voluntarily involved in raising her (in every way) or 2. Forcefully paying at minimum child support.

Unfortunately, it has come down to #2. That was his call.

Laura, I've re-read each and every post that has been written in this thread. I was trying to figure out WHY your posts caused me so much irritation. After reading through them, I now understand.

This is where we started:

I didn't want to file for child support, but what am I supposed to tell her when she asks about him.

I am a very family oriented person. I want Naomi to know her extended family.

My daughter deserves to know where she came from, her family, and it's history. My daughter deserves to know her real father.

I am only looking out for her best interest. To me it's not about the money.

The money is not the issue here. The issue is him having a relationship with his daughter as soon as possible so she knows him. Am I just insane to think that would be possible? So, what if I tell him he doesn't have to pay a dime, just come see his daughter.

I believe from here on out, I will leave it in God's hands. I believe you all are right, and I should leave things the way they are. I believe Naomi will be happy later in life, as she is now everyday.

*The above posts showed a very loving mom, only wanting to make sure that her daughter was emotionally fulfilled. I have to admit, I was impressed. Here was a mother who had the foresight to look to the future, and absent the 'fathers' voluntary involvement, was able to move on.

I am no longer processing Child support, as I don't see the need to be upset at people my whole life. My life is good, and there is no reason to obsess about someone who obviously does not wish to be in her life.

Now, to get back to the point of the matter. THE ONLY thing I have EVER been after, is for Rob to come see his daughter.

*Still, a thoughtful, intelligent mother. Moving on in the best interest of her daughter, selflessly letting go.

Three days later..........Well, strange turn of events the child support office is doing what they can.

My husband says the only hope of him becoming involved with Naomi is that we proceed in court, and once he has to start paying child support maybe he will come see her (even if at first it's out of revenge) then he may end up falling in love with his child, and that is the best we're going to get.

*Ok, now we're back to the court thing. Hmmmm, to what end. The court can't force a father to love a child......I also see influence being exerted on the part of the husband probably left over anger issues from the whole situation. Manipulation isn't high on my list. Hubby may be angry, but if he can't reconcile to the situation being what it is, then your relationship isn't going to work anyway.

I don't want to forget what I started this for. I started this so Naomi could know her father. Now, I'm not so sure that he would be any good in her life.

He's right.. the baby DOES belong to my husband, and in every legal way it will remain that way, as that is who her Father will truly be.

*Ok, HOLD UP! If Naomi belongs to your husband, and in every legal way thats the way it's going to remain, WHY are we talking about court, support and dna??

3/6/06 Well, my husband decided he doesn't want anything to do with the baby because she's not his. He moved out and filed for divorce. I have no idea what I'm going to do now!

*Now the truth comes out. Hubby has issues that haven't been dealt with. He feels betrayed. I can understand this, and as you stated, we're only human. However, once words escape that brain and flow from the mouth, they can never be taken back. So much for the wonderful father that we all hoped he was being for Naomi.

We have come this far, 9 years, and we are going strong even through the hurricane that has tried to conquer our marriage, and life.

I know that my husband makes a great father, as our first born is 13 yrs old already, and we've done a good job so far with her.

*Now here, we have another contraindiction on your part. Which is is, 9 or 14 years? You made an off the cuff comment in another post about Rob not being the first person that has come and gone in your marriage, and wouldn't be the last. Is it possible that your husband has already been down this road once before? Of three children, is he the 'bio' to only one? Is this the reason for your husbands attitude towards Naomi?

A war is what he wants? a war is what he'll get.

Naomi does not need to know that man. She has a great man as her daddy. He is great with her, and has loved her from day one.

*(uh-huh.... so great that he moved out and filed for divorce, so great that he continues to encourage you to get Rob involved, and now we're down to not even an emotional involvement, but monetary instead, and finally, so great that we had to have a dna test to prove paternity.... how convenient)

I will not hold back, and I will not believe my "demands" are to streneuous on his pocketbook.

About money? You bet, now it is.

*Looky here. I sense bitterness and revenge becoming the catalyst in this situation. It's not about Naomi, and how to raise her in the best possible environment, it's about how to get back at Rob. I understand that Rob's behavior in this situation has been far from exemplary, however this shouldn't change the core of who you are.

I'm probably going to stir up a hornets nest here, but the money is technically for the mother to help meet the needs of the child, therefore the mother has every right to spend it as she deems fit.

**I for one, have no problem with how a mother spends the money awarded her for child support. You are correct that a mother should be able to spend the money in any way that benefits the child, and the family (and please, don't go here folks. The CHILD'S welfare is also dependant on the FAMILY'S welfare. You can't pay an electric bill for one child, you can't feed one child and have 2 others go hungry, so take this statement in the context that it's advanced). However, in this I read a mothers intentions that now vary greatly from where we started.


As you can see, throughout this thread, many things have changed. You teeter-totter from one side to the other, not staying true to what you say were your intentions. You've known from the beginning that the chances that Rob would take an active role in Naomi's life were minimal at best. You've gone from begging to demanding, his participation. Now, you're simply another woman on a mission.....Not for Naomi, but for the satisfaction it will afford you. Your husband has gone from 'super dad' to he shouldn't have to support a child thats not his. He's angry at YOU, and the end result is that it will be taken out on Naomi (again, for my critics here, you don't have to be physically abused to be affected by someones attitude, and I'm in no way accusing her husband of any such thing. However, some pretty hurtful comments have been posted on here for all the world to see. He's already left the house once because of this situation. Regardless of whether or not ANY comments were made during Naomi's presence, she still can sense his anger, and she surely would notice any argument between the parents, as well as his absence from the home, even for one night.) This issue is still not resolved with the husband (although with dna, he's now off the hook for child support if he leaves), and probably won't be until he decides to overcome and drop it, or he leaves. Yes, there are laws in place allowing you the opportunity to collect child support, but not DEMANDING that you do so. These laws are to be used at your discretion. How about the prosecuting attorney that pleads down a case, choosing not to prosecute or taking a lighter offense for someone who has broken the law? Said prosecutor may not believe that such a break is deserved, but in weighing all the factors, (in this case those would be the fact that you already know that Rob probably won't participate in Naomi's life, you have an intact family unit, and you've stated over and over that money was not an issue for your family or a factor in raising the kids), has decided that it is in the best interest of the community (read: your family), to drop it down and get it over with. With the dna, your husband is off the hook (and here I agree with one of the other posters who pointed out that if you're good enough to be his wife, then your child should be good enough as well. HE chose YOU, and Naomi is a part of you), he is no longer responsible for a child that isn't his (legally). He's put himself in quite a comfortable position now. He's not Naomi's daddy, but her father figure (for now), because what daddy would willingly want another man involved in his childs life?

Continue your life path, wandering off into the woods every couple of weeks, and keep trying to convince yourself that you're doing the right thing for your daughter. Keep using this thread as your public journal of family events, so that you can remind yourself of 'what you've been through'. I'm sure that it will still be available in 15 or 20 years for Naomi to stumble upon.......hmmmm, maybe then she'll start her own thread. Oh, and ask Naomi, as an adult, which she would have rather had.......a mother and father functioning as a loving family, realizing that her biological father was not interested in being a part of her life, and therefore removed from it, or a court order and heaven knows how many court appearances (including enforcement proceeding which I'm sure will be numerous), to make her biological father 'pay' for walking out of her life. This should make for an interesting conversation. And before you start ranting about how a father should be responsible (remembering that you can't force emotional responsibility), think about how many children are in loving homes, with loving families that spent thousands of dollars to GET that child(ren) into their home and support said child for 18-20 years out of their own pocketbook. These are not the biological parents, and instead of pursuing and prosecuting the biological parents, they praise them for the responsibility that they've shown in giving up a child that they couldn't or wouldn't care for properly, and they feel blessed every moment of every day for the child that they call son or daughter.

Hey there.. I do agree that the money is for the welfare of the child. I agree in many circumstances probably quite a few mothers take the money they are given for child support and spend it on anything but the child. I do not agree with that logic. That is a selfish act in the part of the mother in that instance.

My personal belief is the child support should be either spent on the child, or saved in a fund for them to spend it on themselves when they are old enough to make proper financial decisions. (Depending on the financial structure of the mother/or providing parent.)

There are situations in life that mothers face when the father walks out of their lives. I'm probably going to stir up a hornets nest here, but the money is technically for the mother to help meet the needs of the child, therefore the mother has every right to spend it as she deems fit. Now some people would not agree with the way some mothers spend it, but just for one second think about this...

What if, you are a single mother and one child to support. Let's just say that the father walked away, and they pay support every month on time, and faithfully of 200.-500 per month.

Now I want you to divide in 1/2 the rent or morgage payment that you pay today.. well that alone the support would not begin to touch helping pay.

But take away the roof over their head - but just add the many expenses that one child has.. birth (unless there is medical insurance -usually meaning co-payments if on state medical, otherwise there is monthly fees to keep medical insurance.) (at least here in this state - which range anywhere from 70-200 a month depending on how good of insurance you need, or want, or what you wish to be covered.

ok so then you have:

First year of life only

Formula $21.00 for three day supply. Multiply that for a month.
Baby Food 2 jar a day minimum at 2.00 ea.
Clothes (which they grow out of constantly when they are young
Shoes
Bed sheets, blankets
crib
mattress, mobile
educational toys at least
hair cut
toothbrushes
diapers
diaper rash ointments
shampoo
baby bathtub (or sink option)
baby wipes - or replace wash clothes regularly
baby powder
shots 1 & 2nd set
at least one dentist appointment
swing
pacifiers (sometimes)not Naomi she thinks they are icky.

So I probably missed a bunch of things.. but just add those up and see where we stand approx.

Now you go ahead and continue to tell me the whole expense is on the one person who stuck around to care for, and help that young one grow up happy, and successfully. Tell me that the lousy 200 even 500.00 a month puts a dent in the expense a parent has when they have a child to raise.

The expenses only get larger as the child grows.. there are school costs, instruments to buy (if they are in band) uniforms (if they join a club or team)They eat more, They grow out of clothes in one summer, older bedding, bigger beds, they have school supplies, books, tuition, summer camps, field trips, bikes, birthdays, holidays, friend's birthdays, ect. ect. ect.

The money may be for the child, but if you add it all up.. the child is well taken care of with that support long before it is ever seen by the parent raising the child. Just something to think about when people start nit picking about the money being for the child and not for the mother.

You see my belief is that the "FATHER'S" or parents of this world that have abandoned their children, care more about money in their own pocket rather than how their own flesh and blood child, or children, are managing in life. They know the expense of having a child, and they choose to opt for more money in their own pockets instead of providing for their children. It is a selfish act of the absent parent.
Trust me, I have three children to raise all of whom are at different age levels and all who have different needs. I could not imagine walking away from any one of them, leaving them to fend for themselves in this life. Not now, not ever.

For people to condemn, lay blame, and critisize the one parent who tries to get the other parent to be at least accountable a little bit financially (because that's all they can do legally) (Or believe me there would be a lot of mother's making the men emotionally accountable as well) should be ashamed of themselves. Those actions, and words, are as harsh, and cruel, as what the father has already placed on the mother, who is still there for the child's needs.. not only financially, but also emotionally, and the father cannot even begin to hold a candle to that support with his lousy "payments" of child support.

Just my thoughts on Accountability for the mother "spending" the child's money given by the absent father for support.

So, the ball has been in his court for awhile now. Still there is no set date for him to take a dna test. Everything that needs to be done on my end is done. We are just waiting for him to work with the dna testing agency, and set an appointment time and go to it. If this gets done, then he, and I will have the results within 5 days time. Then maybe we can start working on the rest of her life.

So, thats where we are. I am not going to wait around to long however, he better get on the ball this week, or I'm going to tell my attorney to take it to court anyway. Maybe then he can pay for his own dna test. Or reinburse me for what's already been paid to make him take one to begin with. A year later, and "I make no scense to him."

Perhaps this is just another ploy to postpone support. It is the beginning of the week however, so this friday seems logical for him to take the test. As he stated "any friday will work."

She's almost one, and I'll just bet he's not going to have to pay support for the past year. I'm not sure how that works, I'll have to find out. So far I am working with him, we'll see what his "proposition" will be after he's slapped with the results of his so badly desired dna test.

I'll just bet the first thing out of his mouth will be.. "for the sake of the baby maybe your husband should adopt her." lol
What he'll mean by that though is.. for the sake of my pocketbook maybe your husband should adopt her. What he'll hear is that's not going to happen what else would you like to propose.

I'm just speculating.. Actually I'll be suprised if the dna test gets done without it actually going to court first. We'll see.

You know, I find this ironic. Over a year ago, I was all about doing what's best for Naomi, and keeping her out of the court system, and doing things in a mature manner to prevent any fighting, or nonsense. Now he has managed to suck thousands of dollars out of me and yet still keep it out of court. I had to spend thousands to get the same results we could have done a year ago. Just one more kick in the face, before he has to start paying support. Thanks for one last kick.. I'm still not down.

In all reality, I'm the lucky one. I have a wonderful baby girl and I get to enjoy watching her grow everyday of my life. Nothing is worth that trade.

What people dont understand is the Child support is for the welfare of the child. It is not for the mother. Since it takes two to make a baby then both should be responsible for all the money it takes to raise them. If this rob does what I think he will do. He will see his daughter maybe for a few months after child support and back child support for the year plus is set up then it will become too hard for his life and he will stop seeing her all together. Dont push him to see her. She doesnt need that. So time in the future, either the man you are with now or a new one that will love you for you and love your daughter because she is part of you will ask to adopted her. Let him. Take Rob back to court tell him that he has a choice, Pay all the back child support now in a lump sum or sign off all rights. I bet he will sigh that paper and then your daughter will have a real daddy. How do I know this? This happend to me. My dad and mom were married for seven years then due to abuse she gave him the boot. After a few weeks 50 dollars a month and a 10 minute car trip was so hard for him and his new family, they left and moved to florida. In 1972 that is were all the dead beat dad's went child support didn't cross state lines to easy. Four years later mom got remarried. The day they came home from the honeymoon he started adoption proceedings. When my sperm donor came up to Ohio, he was told by the judge write a check for 4,000 or sign off as a parent. Thank God he signed the paper. My "real father" gave me away at my wedding. My "real father" and my mother celebrated 30 years of marrage. So let the a@@@@le flap in the breeze and hang himself in time. She will be great kid. Live isnt that hard as long as you have one great parent. And you sound like one

Going through this, I've learned it does not have to be about the money. It can just simply be about doing the right thing. Money is but one aspect of this issue but it is the one that people tend to go to first. Keep in mind It is HIS choice to make this only financial proposition! You're just working with it.

I didn't elaborate on my personal story because it didn't seem relevant but let me tell you all of the things you said resonated with me. Our stories are very similar with one important differance, I am a single mother of one. However, I am financially sound. I don't need a dime from him for my daughter to have everything heart desires but to not hold him accountable, was not true to my heart. And it felt like I was doing my daughter a dis-service by not making him step up. Almost like she didn't matter enough to make him become responsible.

There are several aspects of this conviction, money is the least of all motivators.

1. It wasn't enough that I "knew" he was the bio, he had to know it. Everyone had to know it. My family and friends never once indicated they didn't believe me regarding the bio-dads identity, but it meant a lot to ME to have it on paper. Additionally, although he may deny her, he would always know he was lying.

2. I intended to remove all of his excuses. When all was said and done, the reasons he was not in his daughters life is because he chose not to be and the decision was independent of me.

3. If he never gives her one dime or spends one day with her, she knows who bio is.

4. Yep, the financial end of it comes in here. I don't need the money, but he is going to be accountable. As I said earlier, he's elected to make a cash only contribution to her life. I'm not responsible for that choice. I'm just gonna work with it. Supporting her financially is separate and distinct from the emotional support. She will not be aware or an active participant in our financial arrangement. It's not the place for a child.

Laura, don't ever let frustration and anger boil you down the the least common denominator. Money. I can tell from your posts it's not about money it's about so many other things before money even comes into play.

Now do your thing!

All the best,

I do not agree with letting it go. Sorry. I do not give a crap one way or the other anymore if he wants to see her. He has chosen to abandon her. That doesn't mean he can walk away scott free.. no way.

It is MEN LIKE HIM that made the laws the way they are to make them pay when they say oh oops your pregnant, bye.

If he was meant to walk away without giving her anything even a dime, then there would be no way for me to get him to pay. But that is not the case. He does have to pay. The laws are put in place to make dead-beats pay for their actions.

About money? You bet, now it is. That's all it can be about anymore. A relationship with baby Naomi- I have a great one.. His is up to him! If he waits long enough, I'm sure precious Naomi will make up her own mind about a "relationship" with her "daddy." She has a great daddy already. And is about to have a payment plan to boot from dear ol bio "dad."

Visitation? LOL all I have to say is her 1st birthday is a month away.. where has he been all year?

I'd like to see a judge tell me I have to let him take her out of my house not knowing him.. not in this state, I've already checked. That's going to be one hell of a fight, and unlike him, I have the money to pay MY attorney to fight him all the way.

Oh and btw.. I just learned the joker wants to get this "dna thing out of his hair" really fast now, because he doesn't want to have to pay his lawyer anymore money. However, he did manage to make me pay for the FULL cost of HIS dna test after I paid for the FULL cost to prove she wasn't my husbands (as he proclaimed) But it's all good.. It'll come back to me ten fold.

Should be done next friday.. I just signed off on all the paperwork via my attorney. Unless he doesn't show up, which could happen because after all I'm the one "making this so hard."

Whatever-See ya

I am speaking from direct experience. Fight to the end for child support for Naomi. Fight till you drop. DO NOT let this end until the Judge makes the final ruling. As for Naomi knowing her father...DO NOT push this. Rob has no interest in knowing her or he would have already made an effort. No child needs to forced into a relationship. It will only be harder on her when he doesn't show up for visitation, call on a special day or send Christmas gifts. Let her know about her biological father but do NOT push a relationship!! As for him fighting for custody if he has to pay child support...that is him just trying to scare the mess out of you. He would have to have an airtight reason for taking her from you....besides that, he doesn't want to see her now so why would he want custody of her??

Get that child support and don't even mention visitation unless he brings it up. If he doesn't appear at the hearing, you tell the judge you prefer no visitation be allowed until he can prove to the court that he will be a fit DAD. Any man can be a FATHER but it takes a special man to be a DAD!!

One mother to another, Laura, for Naomi's sake, let it go. You have said many times that Naomi is the light of yourlife, that you can't imagine living without her, that she is a joy to be around. For her, let Rob go, and get on with your life.

I'm not an advocate for letting deadbeat dad's slink into the background. However, I've been there, done that, not only with my own children, but with children that consider me their 'other' mom. The bitterness that a teenage child feels about the other parent has nothing to do with the money that they pay, but with the interest that has been shown in their life!

I have ten children, as well as several that I've raised that I didn't give birth to. My own experience has been that that the children involved in the situation where 'dad' didn't choose to be involved leads me to the conclusion that it's better to just walk away. You have it better than some.... you have a husband to be a father figure for Naomi.

In the future, Naomi isn't going to care whether or not her birth father paid support for her, but only that he didn't care enough to be INVOLVED with her. That's when the hard questions start...... Didn't he want me, Why doesn't he care, Why does he so proudly claim my brother????? She's going to remember the 'dad' that always praised her for her accomplishments, the dad that talked to her about the boyfriend that wasn't healthy for her, the dad that stood up for her, the dad that always came to her rescue when her car broke down.

Yes, by pursuing this, Naomi may have a few bucks in the bank when she becomes an adult. She may be able to buy that new car when she's 18..... but what is this teaching her? Are you giving her the confidence that she needs to try something new? Are you showing her that in loving and nurturing her children they can be anything that they want to be? NO!! This is only teaching her that when 2 people make a decision to bring a young one into this world, one can walk away and still be accountable for the financial needs of the child, without love, nurturing or caring what happens. Money can't buy you love..... only the satisfaction of revenge.

I can honestly tell you that I would rather have face to face involvement than financial support for these children. None of them has ever gone without food, clothing, heat, housing or even the extra's...... with or without the support of the 'dad'. What they DID miss out on was the pride of having 'dad' there, the warm fuzzy feeling of their TWO parents saying 'That's MY son/daughter!'. In the end, it all came down to the feeling of being loved, being accepted, being WANTED. Never once have I heard, 'Gee, my mom made my dad support me, and that's all I could ask for!'

Laura, unless the money that you may get in support is an absolute NEED (which you've said is not the case), for the sake of Naomi's self esteem, let it go, and get on with life. Let her live in a child's dream land, with mom and dad cheering her on. When she's older, if you feel it's necessary to give her the WHOLE truth, then she'll deal with it, but until then, give her the security of an intact family, with mommy and daddy cheering her on. Give her the tools to take life by the horns, and leave Rob and his pathetic existence on the wayside. One mom to another, you'll not regret your decision.....