Complaint Review: Rubin & Rothman

about the debt unless you give them permission OR they have a civil judgment against you. This law applies to anyone in NY State who is attempting to collect a consumer debt.

Here's Article 29H of the NYS GBL. Perhaps the idiot employee will give it a good read. The author needs to PRESS CHARGES and insist on prosecution for harassment AND SUE the firm (and the individual employee making the calls.)

ARTICLE 29-H
DEBT COLLECTION PROCEDURES
Section 600. Definitions.
601. Prohibited practices.
602. Violations and penalties.
603. Severability.

600. Definitions. As used in this article, unless the context or subject matter otherwise requires:
1. Consumer claim" means any obligation of a natural person for the payment of money or its equivalent which is or is alleged to be in default and which arises out of a transaction wherein credit has been offered or extended to a natural person, and the money, property or service which was the subject of the transaction was primarily for personal, family or household purposes. The term includes an obligation of a natural person who is a co-maker, endorser, guarantor or surety as well as the natural person to whom such credit was originally extended.
2. "Debtor" means any natural person who owes or who is asserted to owe a consumer claim.
3. "Principal creditor" means any person, firm, corporation or organization to whom a consumer claim is owed, due or asserted to be due or owed, or any assignee for value of said person, firm, corporation or organization.

601. Prohibited practices. No principal creditor, as defined by this article, or his agent shall:
1. Simulate in any manner a law enforcement officer, or a representative of any governmental agency of the state of New York or any of its political subdivisions; or
2. Knowingly collect, attempt to collect, or assert a right to any collection fee, attorney's fee, court cost or expense unless such charges are justly due and legally chargeable against the debtor; or
3. Disclose or threaten to disclose information affecting the debtor's reputation for credit worthiness with knowledge or reason to know that the information is false; or
4. Communicate or threaten to communicate the nature of a consumer claim to the debtor's employer prior to obtaining final judgment against the debtor. The provisions of this subdivision shall not prohibit a principal creditor from communicating with the debtor's employer to execute a wage assignment agreement if the debtor has consented to such an agreement; or
5. Disclose or threaten to disclose information concerning the existence of a debt known to be disputed by the debtor without disclosing that fact; or
6. Communicate with the debtor or any member of his family or household with such frequency or at such unusual hours or in such a manner as can reasonably be expected to abuse or harass the debtor; or
7. Threaten any action which the principal creditor in the usual course of his business does not in fact take; or
8. Claim, or attempt or threaten to enforce a right with knowledge or reason to know that the right does not exist; or
9. Use a communication which simulates in any manner legal or judicial process or which gives the appearance of being authorized, issued or approved by a government, governmental agency, or attorney at law when it is not.

602. Violations and penalties.
1. Except as otherwise provided by law, any person who shall violate the terms of this article shall be guilty of a misdemeanor, and each such violation shall be deemed a separate offense.
2. The attorney general or the district attorney of any county may bring an action in the name of the people of the state to restrain or prevent any violation of this article or any continuance of any such violation.

603. Severability. If any provision of this article or the application thereof to any person or circumstances is held invalid the invalidity thereof shall not affect other provisions or applications of the article which can be given effect without the invalid provision or application, and to this and the provisions of this article are severable.

Good luck! You should get a nice settlement from them!

"Livenlearn" [Bottomfeeder],

I just love educating lowlife!

Here's a newsflash for you, ANY person who owes money is a "debtor".
It makes no difference as to whether you are current or in collections.
I do not personally know anyone who is not a "debtor".
And certainly not a collector doing third party collection on junk debt!

You need a serious grip on reality!!
Lose the arrogance, and also hatrid for the people you deal with, or find another job!


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Submitted: 9/22/2008 10:34:21 PM
Modified: 9/23/2008 12:13:13 AM Livenlearn
Farmingdale, New York
U.S.A.

Collections, NOT customer service
Let me address each of your points one-by-one, first starting with the subject of your report:

You delinquent payment status has landed you in collections, not in customer service. You were a customer when you paid your bill on time. You are now a DEBTOR. This is not anymore derogatory than it is descriptive. Remember, no less than two-thirds of America are debtors! Nonetheless, you must first take responsibility for your actions before you take your attitude any further. Let's move on...



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It may not be legal in your state to tape record conversations without the othe party's knowledge. If it is not, then tell them you are taping the conversation. If a collector calls your place of employment and harasses any of your co-workers OR your boss, have them write up a statement saying so. Send a certified letter to the collection agency and inform them you are NOT allowed to be called at work.

The fact that you are in collections does not give any collector a right to treat you like this.

And by all means, keep records of every conversation and every phone call. Good luck.

Let me address each of your points one-by-one, first starting with the subject of your report:

You delinquent payment status has landed you in collections, not in customer service. You were a customer when you paid your bill on time. You are now a DEBTOR. This is not anymore derogatory than it is descriptive. Remember, no less than two-thirds of America are debtors! Nonetheless, you must first take responsibility for your actions before you take your attitude any further. Let's move on...

"I am thoroughly frustrated with the way Rubin & Rothman conduct their business."

I am sure that the creditor is thoroughly frustrated with your payment status. But I digress...

"I have received aggressive harassing phone calls from Rubin & Rothman, which has become infuriating to me and my family."

I do not know how many calls or how frequently you have received them, but what you define has "harassing" is probably not defined as such by the Federal Debt Collection Practices Act. Don't forget...if you paid in the first place you wouldn't even be receiving a single one of these calls. Furthermore, if you paid your mutually negotiated payment arrangement on time and in the correct amount you ALSO wouldn't receive these calls.

"My ordeal started when I discussed a payment plan, mind you, we HAVE NOT MISSED A PAYMENT. It might be in a week later than the agreed-on 20th of each month, at most, but not one was missed."

Due dates are the dates due. The day after you missed your AGREED ON date, you *missed* your payment. You weren't able to pick and choose when you wanted to pay the original creditor (remember, this is why your account is now being collected on by a law firm...), so why would you be able to pick and choose now?

"The first incident started when a Rothman's representative screamed over the phone at my wife, repeatedly threatened to 'wipe her out,' told my wife that she -- the rep -- owned a nice house and car and paid her bills promptly, and that my wife should NEVER BE CONSIDERED as decent human being!

This conversation sounds inappropriate and should never take place between any two persons, I'll agree. I do not know how much is an elaboration or embellishment but I rarely (if EVER) hear conversations like this unless wildly provoked...and even then they are nothing like you quoted above.

"Then as soon as the due date comes the calls start. Payments are due on the 20th of the month, if they do not have your payment on that day they call my cell phone, then my work phone. Then also an automated message also calls my cell phone shortly after an employee does."

Here we go again: PAY ON TIME. EVERY TIME. If the date falls a day before your pay period, renegotiate the due date. Or better yet...budget yourself better and REMEMBER that your due date is coming. I know these might sound like some crazy ideas, but I promise you they are not. In fact, millions of people pay their bills on timeevery timeevery day. YOU CAN TOO!

"Here is my dilemma. I work for a company, where these calls are unacceptable. The representatives of Rubin & Rothman who made these phone calls are extremely rude and very unprofessional. The greatest insult rests on Rubin & Rothman's remarks, when they even told my boss at my place of employment that he was a liar when he refused to give out personal information about me. On many occasions Rubin & Rothman has called my job and told my co-workers that I owe money and I refuse to pay my bills! This is just unacceptable!"

Tell your collector, "Do not call me at my place of employment. My employer prohibits such calls." Or better yet, put it in writing. Or even better than that: PAY YOUR BILL ON TIME and you will *never* get called at work. Not even at home! Y'know why? Because you paid your bill...on time...

Everyone on this site can commiserate and feel better that they, too, are being bothered another debt collector. Guess what? Did you ever think that there is a reason debt collectors are in business? People (like yourself) at one time or another did not pay their bill.

Does this happen to the best of people? Of course. Does this happen to the worst of people? Absolutely. Does this happen to the ugliest of people? Every day. And it's usually the ugly people that complain the most.