SBC - AT&T YAHOO WHY WOULD A COMPANY WITH SO MUCH CAPTIAL DO THIS? ripoff OFALLON Illinois
SBC/AT&T may have had something good in competition against the cable internet service providers (Charter Communications; Cox) until I figured out that they use the same bundle services selling method that charter uses to get their service into your home, thereby taking your hard earned money out of your trusting and unsuspecting pocket.
Althoughg I would much rather give my buisness to SBC/AT&T than charter, (as should anyone who wants to save money for the same services)they have betrayed my trust by not allowing you to get a DSL line, soley for the purpose of having only one service through them. For example, if you're going High Speed, and SBC/AT&T was your only choice, you will have to pay for a phone number that you don't need. Sure you may want it, and then you're happy.
But what of the people who aren't happy cause they never wanted to pay for a phone line they would never use? The problem is, every phone plan with any carrier that doesn't offer VoIP phone service, is well, ripping you off; but I'll get to that in a minute. And yes, I'm talking to you AT&T; you know d**n well they are charging people for stuff they don't want or need.
My Point: You don't need another phone line from SBC/AT&T if you were smart enough to subscribe to VoIP services through your cable internet provider's broadband service. Of course, once you finally got a phone plan that WAS worth a d**n, you realized that your cable internet provider WASN'T worth a d**n so you fired them.
So now you say, " I wonder if is DSL a good alternative to cable?"
Some may argue, "you have to get a phone number with them because you 'need it' to have the DSL sercive," NOT TRUE. SBC/AT&T has the capability of concluding, usually within minutes, the DSL speed they can offer to potetial customers. When a someone calls upon them for a request of DSL service, the customer service rep. quickly tests the existing phone line after you tell them your residential address, (the test is probably able to be done so fast by means of a preconfigured voice port, specific to your street address, on their local voice switch) and provide you with a picture of what speeds will be availible to you.
You pick a plan, they tell you their phone service with DSL is not an option, blah blah blah. It's all just a money maker. The signal your phone uses is "analog" while your DSL or "Digital" Subscriber Line uses a digital signal for the data portion of the circuit.
Two different signals, using two differnt pieces of equipment, using two very different methods of communicaton DO NOT, I REPEAT, DO NOT RELY ONE ANOTHER FOR THE PURPOSE OF GETTING SERVICE TO YOUR HOME. In fact there is only two things that a phone service and a DSL service have in common and those are, they traverse the same copper wire from your home out to each of their switches, and, they slapped together like peanut butter and jelly by SBC/AT&T, to make you think you can't have DSL without first getting a phone line. Well! Thanks alot for giving us a choice you stingy *********s!
While it is reliable, DSL is a distance limited technology; the father away you are from the DSL switch, the slower the speeds get, equating to slower web browsing. You get the idea. Anyway, after you know what is availible in your area, they sell you on a DSL package(Pro or Express)right after they give you your new phone number. At this point, it is hard to say why having a phone line and DSL through SBC/AT&T is a bad thing.
Oh now I remember, cause if you were smart enough, you would've done the math on how much VoIP kicks AT&Ts a*s when compared to everything else that is of equal price. But if you were'nt smart enough, well, you're just the type of customer they are looking for willing to blow hard earned cash and not ask too many questions.
In summary, I ask, why SBC? Why AT&T? Why must you conform to bulk selling methods? Can't you respect the customers ability to think, weigh, and decide what they need for themselves, instead of inconspiciously pushing them to buy more of an over priced product, and in some cases, a useless product?
Stephen
Scott AFB IL, Illinois
U.S.A.
Click here to read other Rip Off Reports on SBC
5 Updates & Rebuttals
Jennifer
Levittown,New York,
U.S.A.
It is possible
#6Consumer Comment
Thu, April 27, 2006
It is possible for a carrier to determine you are not using your POTS line. As I stated before, there is one regional carrier that will provide ADSL service without an actual POTS line. They simply deliver a dry copper loop with no dial tone on it. I'm assuming they disable the port in the PBX because the line still carries an actual phone number on it. If you dial the phone number, you get an out of service recording so I assume they disable it the same way they would if they were turning off your service temporarily for non-payment. In doing a little research on why this carrier offered this service it was that they wanted to market it to people like you who are not using the carrier's local service.
When ADSL was first marketed, the big draw was that you did not need to install anything new, you could use your existing phone line. VoIP was not that common and almost everyone already had a copper phone line. Now that there are a lot of other alternatives, I'm sure we'll see other carriers step up to the plate with a "Standalone" service. But, be sure, they will structure the pricing so that they don't lose.
Stephen
Scott AFB IL,Illinois,
U.S.A.
Let me clarify so the non-geeks get this.
#6Author of original report
Thu, April 27, 2006
Thanks Jen
ADSL is where you can have an digital signal connect you to the internet and a regular telephone voice signal, both traversing your copper telephone wire. Two distinct signals are sent down the copper telephone wire. For example if your DSL modem goes down, you can still make phone calls from your POTS phone. Another Example, if the POTS phone stops working, like if you unplug it, your DSL modem will still be able to communicate with the other modem or switch or server; whatever the vendor chooses to use at the other end.
Getting theoretical, how does a phone company ensure that a user doesn't use the phone he is not paying for?
1.)Deactivating the voice port at the PBX/Voice Switch
OR
2.)If number 1 is not possible, applying a voice filter to the copper line between the voice switch and the costumers DSL modem, should ensure the customer never hears so much as a dial tone. Lord knows SBC sent me more DSL/Phone filters than I'll ever use as long as I use them for my service. And by service I don't mean that d**n POTS phone.
My point, you don't need to be charged for the phone to just have DSL, but you will be anyway. As Jen stated, almost all companies don't give you an option because they need your money.
And Jen, I have my ADSL line which is around 700Kbps. My d**n POTS is probably 64K and my VoIP phone, when active, uses 30K, traversing the DSL line bringing my surf/download speed to around 606K. I use my VoIP phone for all my calls nearly everyday and whoever invented VoIP needs to be given a medal.
I don't know what you were talking about "provisioning ASDL over a VoIP line"; that of course would never happen cause it can't. As far as IP addressing goes, When you activate your VoIP phone and talk, the VoIP router at your house goes out TCP/IP into your broadband connection(DSL modem), communicates, using IP addressing, with the Vendors router, converts the signal back to the original voice signal, sends it to a PBX/Voice switch for transmission across regular phone lines, to your buddies phone.
Jennifer
Levittown,New York,
U.S.A.
ADSL is a lineshare
#6Consumer Comment
Tue, April 25, 2006
ADSL service, which is the service SBC/AT&T provides, is a lineshare. You must have a copper telephone line in order to get ADSL. There are only two carriers in the country that have an ADSL product that is a standalone and SBC is not one of them.
I provision DSL all over the country and have dealt with virtually every carrier around, some you probably haven't even heard of and, except for the two exceptions I mentioned, they all require a copper POTS line for ADSL. There are other DSL products, such as SDSL and IDSL that do not always require a lineshare. Speeds on these other products vary from as low as 144K X 144K to as high as 1.1M X 1.1M.
Also, ADSL cannot be provisioned over your VoIP line. I'm not sure of the exact reason why but it has something to do with IP addressing.
Stephen
Scott AFB IL,Illinois,
U.S.A.
Thanks for the Common Opinion
#6Author of original report
Thu, April 20, 2006
In Response to Steve from Indiana
[i]Steve(ID) says:[/i]
[i]I understand why it is [b]misleading[/b] that they seem to require you to purchase a phone line as well, let me make a few comments and maybe you will calm down some.[/i]
Steve(IL)says:
Wait, so is, or is it not a requirement that I purchase their phone line that I don't want or need?
[i]Steve(ID) says:[/i]
[i]First of all, all services that I have talked to will find a way to charge you for not taking their basic service if you are going to get an internet service. On cable, if you don't subscribe to their basic package it is an extra $10-$15 a month for not taking the package, the telephone line is the same way for SBC.[/i]
Steve(IL)says:
First of all, all services you have talked to could be 2 or 10,000 so who knows to what entities you are making your comparative analysis. But thanks for your opinion...it basically says: SBC is not alone...[b]all[/b] companies are ripping the customers off and that makes it ok :).
[i]Steve(ID) says:[/i]
[b]I am not trying to justify their policy[/b], but POTS has its place. Another thing to consider is the quality of service of POTS. That is right, how many people do you know that have their cable modem, router, and VoIP phone on battery backup? when the power in your house loses power you lose VoIP service, plain and simple, with a POTS phone when the power goes out, most of the time you continue to have service for the duration of the outage.
Steve(IL) says:
The first part of the first sentence pertains to the previous paragraph; although you weren't trying to justify their policy, you did a pretty good job of doing just that. And power loss? You use that as a card? First I would have to even care about the phone line to consider it a viable asset, which it is not. A liability for $12 a month is more like it. So what if the power goes out for a few hours? It's better that having to pay for a phone you don't use or want every hour of every day you have it. Now, I got a question for you, that is just as out of place as listing reasons to have a POTS phone when the reason for this report is "being charged for something I don't want"; How many people do you know, have enough cooler space to preserve all of the perishables in their fridge when the power goes out?
[i]Steve(ID) says:[/i]
[i]911 is another issue, in the news last week there was a story about someone that called 911 on a VoIP phone and the call was not routed successfully, if they had a POTS phone this would have turned out much better. Most of the 911 problems have been solved but not everyone is in compliance yet.[/i]
Steve(IL) says:
Hey everyone, keyword here is [b]"MOST"[/b] of the 911 problems have been solved. What you mean is, [b]"mostly all"[/b]. In some cases, it is up to the user to configure their VoIP phone for 911 calling depending on what vendor they go with for their VoIP. If they fail to do that, then how does that become the fault of VoIP company? That is like blaming your cable company for your Grandma for being technically challenged when she is trying to work the VCR remote. If a 911 call is not properly routed with VoIP, usually, it is because the customer has failed to set up that feature when they decided that VoIP was right for them. You can't blame a company because their customers are technically challenged by the equipment purchased. What a company can be blamed for however, is charging them for service they don't need or want and hoping the majority are too technically challenged and won't figure it out unless they come across reports like this one.
[i]Steve(ID) says:[/i]
[i]I do not work for or have ever worked for any ISP, POTS, or cable provider so don't bother to attack, I am just trying to inject a little common sense.[/i]
Steve(IL) says:
That's a relief. I was afraid I didn't know what I was talking about here. By the way [i]I, like many customers, am/are angry[/i] which is why this website exists. You may not have worked for an ISP or the like, and I'm so glad you chose to mention that; also, you are not my shrink. I will calm down once I get what I want from a communications vendor; that being a vendor who gives me what I want and isn't trying to pinch my pockets in a manner that is inconspicuous. Bottom line: these vendors want your money and are always looking for that [b]little extra[/b] they can squeeze out without getting the masses riled up. Thanks.
Steve
Clinton,Indiana,
U.S.A.
You seem awfully angry
#6Consumer Suggestion
Thu, April 13, 2006
I understand why it is misleading that they seem to require you to purchase a phone line as well, let me make a few comments and maybe you will calm down some.
First of all, all services that I have talked to will find a way to charge you for not taking their basic service if you are going to get an internet service. On cable, if you don't subscribe to their basic package it is an extra $10-$15 a month for not taking the package, the telephone line is the same way for SBC.
I am not trying to justify their policy, but POTS has its place. Another thing to consider is the quality of service of POTS. That is right, how many people do you know that have their cable modem, router, and VoIP phone on battery backup? when the power in your house loses power you lose VoIP service, plain and simple, with a POTS phone when the power goes out, most of the time you continue to have service for the duration of the outage.
911 is another issue, in the news last week there was a story about someone that called 911 on a VoIP phone and the call was not routed succesfully, if they had a POTS phone this would have turned out much better. Most of the 911 problems have been solved but not everyone is in compliance yet.
I do not work for or have ever worked for any ISP, POTS, or cable provider so don't bother to attack, I am just trying to inject a little common sense.