Complaint Review: Scientology

Hello, Victims of Scientology...

Many families have been torn apart by the Cult of scientology, crushed under the wheels of its overreaching "fair game" policy, and the "never defend, always attack" philosophy entrenched in them by L. Ron Hubbard.

Know this: scientology is one of the most dangerous scams in existence today. But there are groups taking a stand against this dangerous organization.

Please go to You Tube and type in "Anonymous", "Wise Beard Man", or "XenuTV", to get a visual stream of some of the groups that stand against Scientology.

Look up "Project Chanology" on the Search Engines, or simply "XenuTV". There are others, but I'm unsure as to all of them. For the love of God...look up what happened to Lisa McPherson (you tube has a video called "the unfunny truth about scientology" that features only a few of the horrible fates suffered by the victims of this brainwashing nightmare.) and judge for yourselves.

Here are families trying to reconnect with loved ones claimed by scientology, children who were raised in the nightmare life that is scientology (including David Miscaviege's neice, I believe!), and people whose lives have been irreparably scarred by getting involved in this very expensive business posing as a religion.

Knowledge is free. But to get the whole story behind scientology and all it's information it will cost the average person no less than a hundred grand. If you're wealthier, they'll tailor the expense to your income....if you're poor, no problem...you can consign yourself to a life of oppressive servitude and constant surveillance for your "audits, lessons and counsel".

If you choose to leave the "church", they blackmail you and ruin everything they can: your job, your personal life, your credit history. They trump up false allegations--even sue you if they can. "The object of litigation is to harass, more than to win", according to L. Ron Hubbard; "use their crimes against them...if they have no crimes, invent some."

Seriously...check out some of the videos and judge for yourself. There are videos and information provided by some folks who have spent years in the organization.

Also, just to be fair...for those of you who are scientologists, it is not your belief system that I stand against, it is the practice of those who support your "church" and the policies they institute.

If you want to believe the principles and the "path of enlightenment" lies in scientology, that is your choice. Really, I don't fault you for it (why should I? Other religions believe a myriad of incredible things!)...honestly, I think you should be able to enjoy your families and friends of other faiths, and to keep every cent you work for. You deserve no less than anyone else.

Thank you for hearing me out.

Hello, Victims of Scientology...

Many families have been torn apart by the Cult of scientology, crushed under the wheels of its overreaching "fair game" policy, and the "never defend, always attack" philosophy entrenched in them by L. Ron Hubbard.

Know this: scientology is one of the most dangerous scams in existence today. But there are groups taking a stand against this dangerous organization.

Please go to You Tube and type in "Anonymous", "Wise Beard Man", or "XenuTV", to get a visual stream of some of the groups that stand against Scientology.

Look up "Project Chanology" on the Search Engines, or simply "XenuTV". There are others, but I'm unsure as to all of them. For the love of God...look up what happened to Lisa McPherson (you tube has a video called "the unfunny truth about scientology" that features only a few of the horrible fates suffered by the victims of this brainwashing nightmare.) and judge for yourselves.

Here are families trying to reconnect with loved ones claimed by scientology, children who were raised in the nightmare life that is scientology (including David Miscaviege's neice, I believe!), and people whose lives have been irreparably scarred by getting involved in this very expensive business posing as a religion.

Knowledge is free. But to get the whole story behind scientology and all it's information it will cost the average person no less than a hundred grand. If you're wealthier, they'll tailor the expense to your income....if you're poor, no problem...you can consign yourself to a life of oppressive servitude and constant surveillance for your "audits, lessons and counsel".

If you choose to leave the "church", they blackmail you and ruin everything they can: your job, your personal life, your credit history. They trump up false allegations--even sue you if they can. "The object of litigation is to harass, more than to win", according to L. Ron Hubbard; "use their crimes against them...if they have no crimes, invent some."

Seriously...check out some of the videos and judge for yourself. There are videos and information provided by some folks who have spent years in the organization.

Also, just to be fair...for those of you who are scientologists, it is not your belief system that I stand against, it is the practice of those who support your "church" and the policies they institute.

If you want to believe the principles and the "path of enlightenment" lies in scientology, that is your choice. Really, I don't fault you for it (why should I? Other religions believe a myriad of incredible things!)...honestly, I think you should be able to enjoy your families and friends of other faiths, and to keep every cent you work for. You deserve no less than anyone else.

Thank you for hearing me out.

Hello, Victims of Scientology...

Many families have been torn apart by the Cult of scientology, crushed under the wheels of its overreaching "fair game" policy, and the "never defend, always attack" philosophy entrenched in them by L. Ron Hubbard.

Know this: scientology is one of the most dangerous scams in existence today. But there are groups taking a stand against this dangerous organization.

Please go to You Tube and type in "Anonymous", "Wise Beard Man", or "XenuTV", to get a visual stream of some of the groups that stand against Scientology.

Look up "Project Chanology" on the Search Engines, or simply "XenuTV". There are others, but I'm unsure as to all of them. For the love of God...look up what happened to Lisa McPherson (you tube has a video called "the unfunny truth about scientology" that features only a few of the horrible fates suffered by the victims of this brainwashing nightmare.) and judge for yourselves.

Here are families trying to reconnect with loved ones claimed by scientology, children who were raised in the nightmare life that is scientology (including David Miscaviege's neice, I believe!), and people whose lives have been irreparably scarred by getting involved in this very expensive business posing as a religion.

Knowledge is free. But to get the whole story behind scientology and all it's information it will cost the average person no less than a hundred grand. If you're wealthier, they'll tailor the expense to your income....if you're poor, no problem...you can consign yourself to a life of oppressive servitude and constant surveillance for your "audits, lessons and counsel".

If you choose to leave the "church", they blackmail you and ruin everything they can: your job, your personal life, your credit history. They trump up false allegations--even sue you if they can. "The object of litigation is to harass, more than to win", according to L. Ron Hubbard; "use their crimes against them...if they have no crimes, invent some."

Seriously...check out some of the videos and judge for yourself. There are videos and information provided by some folks who have spent years in the organization.

Also, just to be fair...for those of you who are scientologists, it is not your belief system that I stand against, it is the practice of those who support your "church" and the policies they institute.

If you want to believe the principles and the "path of enlightenment" lies in scientology, that is your choice. Really, I don't fault you for it (why should I? Other religions believe a myriad of incredible things!)...honestly, I think you should be able to enjoy your families and friends of other faiths, and to keep every cent you work for. You deserve no less than anyone else.

Thank you for hearing me out.

Hello, Victims of Scientology...

Many families have been torn apart by the Cult of scientology, crushed under the wheels of its overreaching "fair game" policy, and the "never defend, always attack" philosophy entrenched in them by L. Ron Hubbard.

Know this: scientology is one of the most dangerous scams in existence today. But there are groups taking a stand against this dangerous organization.

Please go to You Tube and type in "Anonymous", "Wise Beard Man", or "XenuTV", to get a visual stream of some of the groups that stand against Scientology.

Look up "Project Chanology" on the Search Engines, or simply "XenuTV". There are others, but I'm unsure as to all of them. For the love of God...look up what happened to Lisa McPherson (you tube has a video called "the unfunny truth about scientology" that features only a few of the horrible fates suffered by the victims of this brainwashing nightmare.) and judge for yourselves.

Here are families trying to reconnect with loved ones claimed by scientology, children who were raised in the nightmare life that is scientology (including David Miscaviege's neice, I believe!), and people whose lives have been irreparably scarred by getting involved in this very expensive business posing as a religion.

Knowledge is free. But to get the whole story behind scientology and all it's information it will cost the average person no less than a hundred grand. If you're wealthier, they'll tailor the expense to your income....if you're poor, no problem...you can consign yourself to a life of oppressive servitude and constant surveillance for your "audits, lessons and counsel".

If you choose to leave the "church", they blackmail you and ruin everything they can: your job, your personal life, your credit history. They trump up false allegations--even sue you if they can. "The object of litigation is to harass, more than to win", according to L. Ron Hubbard; "use their crimes against them...if they have no crimes, invent some."

Seriously...check out some of the videos and judge for yourself. There are videos and information provided by some folks who have spent years in the organization.

Also, just to be fair...for those of you who are scientologists, it is not your belief system that I stand against, it is the practice of those who support your "church" and the policies they institute.

If you want to believe the principles and the "path of enlightenment" lies in scientology, that is your choice. Really, I don't fault you for it (why should I? Other religions believe a myriad of incredible things!)...honestly, I think you should be able to enjoy your families and friends of other faiths, and to keep every cent you work for. You deserve no less than anyone else.

Thank you for hearing me out.

For those of you who are Christians, who have been told by Scientology that it is compatable with all major religions, and that you can keep your own religion while practicing Scientology-

The below is an excerpt from "is from OT VIII, Series 1" included in the court records from the Fishman Case No 91-6426 HLH (Tx), which includes the OT documents from I to VIII:

L. Ron Hubbard:

"No doubt you are familiar with the Revelations section of the Bible where various events are predicted. Also mentioned Is a brief period of time in which an arch-enemy of Christ. reforred to as the anti-Christ, will reign and his opinions will have sway. All this makes for very fantastic, entertaining reading but there is truth in it. This anti-Christ represents the forces of Lucifer (literally, the "light bearers" or "light bringer"), Lucifer being a mythical representation of the forces of enlightenment, the Galactic Confederacy. My mission could be said to fulfill the Biblical promise represented by this brief anti-Christ period. During this period there is a fleeting opportunity for the whole scenario to be effectively derailed which would make it impossible for the mass Marcabian landing (Second Coming) to take place. The Second Coming is designed, among other things, to trigger a rapid series of destructive events.

"With the exception of the original Buddhism, virtually all religions of any consequence on this planet, mono- and pantheistic alike have been instruments to speed the progress of this
"evolution of consciousness" and bring about the eventual enslavement of mankind. As you know, Siddhartha Gautama never claimed to be anything more than a man. Having caught
on to this operation, he postulated his own return as Metteyya, part of which prophecy will have been fulfilled upon the passing of L. Ron Hubbard.

"For those of you whose Christian toes I may have stepped on let me take the opportunity to disabuse you of some lovely myths. For instance, the historic Jesus was not nearly the sainted figure has been made out to be. In addition to being a lover of young boys and men he was given to uncontrollable bursts of temper and hatred that belied the general message of love, understanding and other typical Marcab PR. You have only to look at the history his teachings inspired to see where it all inevitably leads. It Is historic fact and yet man still clings to the ideal
so deep and insidious is the biologic implanting."

Scientology is basically applied black magick- according to L. Ron Hubbard's own son:

http://www.lermanet.com/scientologynews/penthouse-LRonHubbardJr-interview-1983.htm


Here are more interesting links:

http://www.lermanet.com/scientology-and-occult/
http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/Library/Shelf/wakefield/us-02.html
http://www.xenu.net/

Since Scientology conducts itself like a business, I reckon the phrase "caveat emptor" applies as much as "get thee behind me, Satan".

Love,

To the Scientologist who called me, and other Christians "Jesus freaks" .

If Scientology has helped you become a "better person", it doesn't show by your mean spirited remark that Christians are "Jesus freaks". Jesus forewarned his followers of the likes of you when he said, "If the world hates you, know that it hated ME before it hated you." (John 15:18)
Since you despise Jesus Christ, and His followers, you despise the LOVE and JUSTICE, and all the other GOOD that He stands for.

Having conducted much research into the SCAM that is Scientology, reading court documents (affidavits, seiaed files, etc.), viewing protests, viewing testimonials from ex-scientologists, I find the logic behind Scientology to be so blaintantly manipulative that I can't understand why anyone would want to involve themselves in such cult activity.

Many websites are dedicated to anti-scientology movements and most of these websites produce documentation from the RTC or CofS and from the Courts through the neverending line of lawsuits. Check out the letters written by anyone involved in Scientology PR. Notice the scads of grammatical errors and spelling mistakes, pointing to the level of education these executive and director types have accomplished.

Also, notice the aggressive nature of their letters and rebuttals, always on the defensive. As mentioned in a statement made about Coastal Vacations scam, a legitimate organization who conducts business appropriately does not constantly find themselves under attack. Are these the type of people you wish to surround yourself with, are these people you wish to befriend? I guarantee that putting your faith elsewhere will provide you with as much joy and self-satisfaction without the hefty pricetag.

Another question I must pose. Scinetology is quick to throw thosed opposed into courtrooms for their public opinions of the practice, so why doesn't Scientology prove to the world how their techniques work. Instead of keeping the secrets to success, exploit your techniques for attaining the perfect human entity. Why be selfish with your abilities to create a society with violence, war and terror. I'll tell you why, because the majority of free-thinking, unimpressionable individuals would never fall for the Xenu routine and base their existence around a man who's plot revolves around an Intergalactic Overlord, Teegeack, Thetans and a cosmic explosion.

What about their position on Psychiatry, Psychology and psychiatric medications. Lets dwell on that issue for a moment. The basis of psychiatry is to help formulate a diagnosis of the psycholgical issue an indivdual suffers from, thus helping that individual to reach a point of stability. A stable person of sound mind and body is most likely a rational thinker and one who would not fall for the idiotic exclamations of Scientology. Now, to front a conspiracy theory, is it possible that Scientology seeks to prevent the treatment of these individuals by snagging them at their weakest moments and offering them false hopes. Thus making it easier to access their pocketbooks and fill the wallets of the brainless wonders behind this SCAM.

Another avenue to explore would be L. Ron Hubbard himself. We know of his many lies, War Hero, Nuclear Physicist, etc. Even if these lies were to be true, where are his credentials for becoming a saviour of the mind? Where did he find the time to, while writing his Sci-Fi novels, to educate himself in the operation of the human psyche?

It's too bad that there are people in this world that enjoy profiting off the misfortune of others, but I guess that's the freedom we are able to enjoy human beings.

Good Luck to all the victims of Scientology!

Having conducted much research into the SCAM that is Scientology, reading court documents (affidavits, seiaed files, etc.), viewing protests, viewing testimonials from ex-scientologists, I find the logic behind Scientology to be so blaintantly manipulative that I can't understand why anyone would want to involve themselves in such cult activity.

Many websites are dedicated to anti-scientology movements and most of these websites produce documentation from the RTC or CofS and from the Courts through the neverending line of lawsuits. Check out the letters written by anyone involved in Scientology PR. Notice the scads of grammatical errors and spelling mistakes, pointing to the level of education these executive and director types have accomplished.

Also, notice the aggressive nature of their letters and rebuttals, always on the defensive. As mentioned in a statement made about Coastal Vacations scam, a legitimate organization who conducts business appropriately does not constantly find themselves under attack. Are these the type of people you wish to surround yourself with, are these people you wish to befriend? I guarantee that putting your faith elsewhere will provide you with as much joy and self-satisfaction without the hefty pricetag.

Another question I must pose. Scinetology is quick to throw thosed opposed into courtrooms for their public opinions of the practice, so why doesn't Scientology prove to the world how their techniques work. Instead of keeping the secrets to success, exploit your techniques for attaining the perfect human entity. Why be selfish with your abilities to create a society with violence, war and terror. I'll tell you why, because the majority of free-thinking, unimpressionable individuals would never fall for the Xenu routine and base their existence around a man who's plot revolves around an Intergalactic Overlord, Teegeack, Thetans and a cosmic explosion.

What about their position on Psychiatry, Psychology and psychiatric medications. Lets dwell on that issue for a moment. The basis of psychiatry is to help formulate a diagnosis of the psycholgical issue an indivdual suffers from, thus helping that individual to reach a point of stability. A stable person of sound mind and body is most likely a rational thinker and one who would not fall for the idiotic exclamations of Scientology. Now, to front a conspiracy theory, is it possible that Scientology seeks to prevent the treatment of these individuals by snagging them at their weakest moments and offering them false hopes. Thus making it easier to access their pocketbooks and fill the wallets of the brainless wonders behind this SCAM.

Another avenue to explore would be L. Ron Hubbard himself. We know of his many lies, War Hero, Nuclear Physicist, etc. Even if these lies were to be true, where are his credentials for becoming a saviour of the mind? Where did he find the time to, while writing his Sci-Fi novels, to educate himself in the operation of the human psyche?

It's too bad that there are people in this world that enjoy profiting off the misfortune of others, but I guess that's the freedom we are able to enjoy human beings.

Good Luck to all the victims of Scientology!

Having conducted much research into the SCAM that is Scientology, reading court documents (affidavits, seiaed files, etc.), viewing protests, viewing testimonials from ex-scientologists, I find the logic behind Scientology to be so blaintantly manipulative that I can't understand why anyone would want to involve themselves in such cult activity.

Many websites are dedicated to anti-scientology movements and most of these websites produce documentation from the RTC or CofS and from the Courts through the neverending line of lawsuits. Check out the letters written by anyone involved in Scientology PR. Notice the scads of grammatical errors and spelling mistakes, pointing to the level of education these executive and director types have accomplished.

Also, notice the aggressive nature of their letters and rebuttals, always on the defensive. As mentioned in a statement made about Coastal Vacations scam, a legitimate organization who conducts business appropriately does not constantly find themselves under attack. Are these the type of people you wish to surround yourself with, are these people you wish to befriend? I guarantee that putting your faith elsewhere will provide you with as much joy and self-satisfaction without the hefty pricetag.

Another question I must pose. Scinetology is quick to throw thosed opposed into courtrooms for their public opinions of the practice, so why doesn't Scientology prove to the world how their techniques work. Instead of keeping the secrets to success, exploit your techniques for attaining the perfect human entity. Why be selfish with your abilities to create a society with violence, war and terror. I'll tell you why, because the majority of free-thinking, unimpressionable individuals would never fall for the Xenu routine and base their existence around a man who's plot revolves around an Intergalactic Overlord, Teegeack, Thetans and a cosmic explosion.

What about their position on Psychiatry, Psychology and psychiatric medications. Lets dwell on that issue for a moment. The basis of psychiatry is to help formulate a diagnosis of the psycholgical issue an indivdual suffers from, thus helping that individual to reach a point of stability. A stable person of sound mind and body is most likely a rational thinker and one who would not fall for the idiotic exclamations of Scientology. Now, to front a conspiracy theory, is it possible that Scientology seeks to prevent the treatment of these individuals by snagging them at their weakest moments and offering them false hopes. Thus making it easier to access their pocketbooks and fill the wallets of the brainless wonders behind this SCAM.

Another avenue to explore would be L. Ron Hubbard himself. We know of his many lies, War Hero, Nuclear Physicist, etc. Even if these lies were to be true, where are his credentials for becoming a saviour of the mind? Where did he find the time to, while writing his Sci-Fi novels, to educate himself in the operation of the human psyche?

It's too bad that there are people in this world that enjoy profiting off the misfortune of others, but I guess that's the freedom we are able to enjoy human beings.

Good Luck to all the victims of Scientology!

Having conducted much research into the SCAM that is Scientology, reading court documents (affidavits, seiaed files, etc.), viewing protests, viewing testimonials from ex-scientologists, I find the logic behind Scientology to be so blaintantly manipulative that I can't understand why anyone would want to involve themselves in such cult activity.

Many websites are dedicated to anti-scientology movements and most of these websites produce documentation from the RTC or CofS and from the Courts through the neverending line of lawsuits. Check out the letters written by anyone involved in Scientology PR. Notice the scads of grammatical errors and spelling mistakes, pointing to the level of education these executive and director types have accomplished.

Also, notice the aggressive nature of their letters and rebuttals, always on the defensive. As mentioned in a statement made about Coastal Vacations scam, a legitimate organization who conducts business appropriately does not constantly find themselves under attack. Are these the type of people you wish to surround yourself with, are these people you wish to befriend? I guarantee that putting your faith elsewhere will provide you with as much joy and self-satisfaction without the hefty pricetag.

Another question I must pose. Scinetology is quick to throw thosed opposed into courtrooms for their public opinions of the practice, so why doesn't Scientology prove to the world how their techniques work. Instead of keeping the secrets to success, exploit your techniques for attaining the perfect human entity. Why be selfish with your abilities to create a society with violence, war and terror. I'll tell you why, because the majority of free-thinking, unimpressionable individuals would never fall for the Xenu routine and base their existence around a man who's plot revolves around an Intergalactic Overlord, Teegeack, Thetans and a cosmic explosion.

What about their position on Psychiatry, Psychology and psychiatric medications. Lets dwell on that issue for a moment. The basis of psychiatry is to help formulate a diagnosis of the psycholgical issue an indivdual suffers from, thus helping that individual to reach a point of stability. A stable person of sound mind and body is most likely a rational thinker and one who would not fall for the idiotic exclamations of Scientology. Now, to front a conspiracy theory, is it possible that Scientology seeks to prevent the treatment of these individuals by snagging them at their weakest moments and offering them false hopes. Thus making it easier to access their pocketbooks and fill the wallets of the brainless wonders behind this SCAM.

Another avenue to explore would be L. Ron Hubbard himself. We know of his many lies, War Hero, Nuclear Physicist, etc. Even if these lies were to be true, where are his credentials for becoming a saviour of the mind? Where did he find the time to, while writing his Sci-Fi novels, to educate himself in the operation of the human psyche?

It's too bad that there are people in this world that enjoy profiting off the misfortune of others, but I guess that's the freedom we are able to enjoy human beings.

Good Luck to all the victims of Scientology!

Those who have the means to put out cash to reach the holy grail of Scientology, OT8 claim they have the power to control their enviornment. Well if that's the case, take Christy Ally(sp). After being seduced by John Travolta to join this cult she acheived that lofty position. If she's so clear and in control why did she put on so much weight that she's now shiling for a weight loss center? Can anyone say SCAM?

I will start of by saying I am Christian, Presbyterian to be exact, and I do not personally know anyone involved (currently or in the past) in Scientology. Therefore anyone looking for direct insight shouls skip ahead.

The issue I do want to address here is judgement. My God, the one I believe in and the one who I believe to have started creation in motion, does not tolerate us lowly humans judging each other. Only HE should judge. It makes me so sad when we judge each other in His name. We kill each other over something we THINK God would want. I will not sit here at my desk and pretend I know everything, or I could ever understand the inner workings of our universe, but I do beleive my God loves everyone. So when I hear self proclaimed Christians hating and judging anyone who disagrees it makes me sad.

Please, to everyone who is in doubt, or fimly does not believe, in religion because of the Christians who judge, this message was for you. I just want to let you know that we aren't all judgemental. But the hatred and judgement and hypocrisy is what keeps me out of church and worshiping on my own, so I do know the resentment that comes from seeing all those who do judge.

I hope that everyone, regardless of believe or non believe, takes some time someday soon to re-evaluate why they believe in what they believe. It is important that we understand these things so that we may grow as people. Be open minded and willing to listen to other people's opinions and remember, no one knows everything but we all tend to think we do.

Just my two cents....

Two extremes of what Scientology is said to be:

1) Flawless
2) A money-hungry cult

It's neither.

First of all, when most people say "Scientology", they mean the philosophy itself, any business or organization that uses the philosophy, and any person that uses the philosophy in their personal lives. For those of you out there that are at least somewhat rational, you know that one does not equal the other. Nevertheless, when I indicated, above, that "Scientology" is neither flawless nor a money hungry cult, I was talking the way the average non-Scientologist refers to anything or anyone related to Scientology, i.e., all of it means all of it.

Anyway, from this point forward, "Scientology" means the philosophy itself, "Scientologist" means someone who uses Scientology to better conditions in their life and "Church" means an organization officially sanctioned by the holder of the trademarks of Dianetics and Scientology (Religious Technology Center, www.rtc.org) to deliver Dianetics and Scientology courses and counseling. (Why would there even be trademarks and someone watching over organizations that provide courses and counseling? [The counseling is called "auditing" because it means "to listen"....what a concept, a counselor LISTENING as opposed to telling you what to think about yourself or your life.] Because the stuff is exact and it works when correctly applied. When mixed with other practices or incorrectly applied, it doesn't yield the desired results. You don't just want anyone putting courses out and giving counseling calling it Scientology when it's really something other than Scientology. Hence, the need for trademarks.)

Okay, so what's the true story of Scientology? I couldn't say it better than the man who created it, L. Ron Hubbard, "1. A philosopher develops a philosophy about life and death. 2. People find it interesting. 3. People find it works. 4. People pass it along to others. 5. It grows." Yes, it really is that simple. So why all the noise? Depends. Some people don't understand it, others listen to the noise that other people forward and they make their own noise, others are outright threatened by Scientology. See, Scientology is the only philosophy (to my knowledge) where there are no victims, no excuses, no blaming someone else for your woes, etc. If you read any comments from critics out there, you'll find one common thread, that they or people they know, were victims. Poor babies, let me get out my tiny violin.... Really, it is that pathetic. Check out http://www.scientologyhandbook.org/sh9.htm for information on integrity, how to get your self-respect back and what occurs when someone commits bad deeds against the moral code of the group they belong to.

Sure, there's been bad apples amongst "Scientologists". Or rather, there's been rotten, evil, bloody disgusting poor excuse for humans---who, if this was 200 years ago and it was perfectly socially acceptable to assasinate someone who "had some killin' comin' to 'em", I wouldn't think twice about putting a price on their heads---who took Scientology courses and received Scientology counseling, and for that reason alone, had the ***audacity*** to call themselves Scientologists despite the ***havoc*** they wreaked for the people around them. May they rot in their own hell until they somehow get a clue and the guts enough to make up the damage they did to so many people over the years. (Some of them have started their own quasi-Scientology groups, extremely critical of the Church, and they indoctrinate their public as to how bad it all is and how they're victimized, etc. REMEMBER. If someone is selling you on being a victim, he's selling you your spiritual "death" certificate, I don't care how good and right it feels at the moment.)

I worked for the Church for a few years, between the ages of 18-21. I was very young and if I could do it again, would I? Nope. It was a wonderful experience and I learned a whole lot about life and people, but shoot, I was way too young to have made such a heavy decision as to sign a lifetime employment contract anywhere.... so it didn't work out. I left. Did I run away? Nooo, sillies, I didn't have to. I said, basically, "You know what? I made a mistake. This is actually not what I want to do for the rest of my life." And they said, basically, "That sucks. You sure?" And I said, basically, "Yep." And they said, basically, "Okay, well, take care, and if you ever change your mind, come on back, we loved having you." And that was that. Traumatic? Nope.
Mind you, there were staff younger than me who had their heads together a helluva better than I did, and they're still there, working their butts off. Hats off to them. I simply wasn't that mature. What I should have done upon finding out how great Scientology was, was go on course as a public Scientologist as opposed to a staff Scientologist, and just develop my life as a public. But, what's done is done.

Anyway, 14 years later, I'm still a Scientologist, and a proud one. I help people with Scientology and I help myself. Like some of you, I also have a problem with it being called a "Church", but for me, it's because the word "Church" identifies too much with Christianity, and I'm converting to Judaism (converting not from Scientology but from Catholicsm), so I'm just not crazy about the word "Church". But, hey, it doesn't bother me THAT much that I have to raise a stink about it. (But believe me, if it did, I would. And actually, any real Scientologist knows there's a very civilized way of raising a stink about something that pertains to anything relating to Scientology, which is written in our ethics and justice codes. It's a very workable system, which I've used to successfully slam a couple of "rotten apples" masquerading as Scientologists. By the way, does my being a Scientologist interfere with Judaism? Nope. There's only one G-d, and I acknoweldge that fact through prayer every night and every morning. I don't worship L. Ron Hubbard, no Scientologists do. Hubbard acknowledges the existence of a Supreme Being, and he NEVER claims that he is It. What does he say about G-d? He says, "No culture in the history of the world, save the thoroughly depraved and expiring ones, has failed to affirm the existence of a Supreme Being. It is an empirical observation that men without a strong and lasting faith in a Supreme Being are less capable, less ethical and less valuable to themselves and society.... A man without an abiding faith is, by observation alone, more of a thing than a man." Read it for yourself in Hubbard's book, Science of Survival available through Bridge Publications here,
http://scncatalog.scientology.net/OA_HTML/ibeCCtpItmDspRte.jsp?section=10252&item=1753
.So all you Jesus freaks can calm down. Hubbard is no Golden Calf (and by the way, you borrowed that from us, the Jews).

So what else can I say? Gee, I'm a little bit different than the la-ti-da's so many critics swear make up "Scientology". Why is that? Because I'm a REAL INDIVIDUAL. Scientologists are REAL INDIVIDUALS. That means we're not all the same. That means we're DIFFERENT. But that's impossible amongst brainwashees...BECAUSE WE'RE NOT BRAINWASHED.

Anyway, enough of this. I came on this site today to check out what I suspected was a scam, found out it was, and before I left, I wondered if there was anything here on Scientology because I'm not stupid, you know, I KNOW what *some* people say about it, but I also know that many people are genuinely interested in it and it's YOU that I'm speaking to. Those of you who are genuinely interested but have heard some junk and just want to watch your backs and so came here to find out the truth. So I told you the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help me G-d, and I do believe in G-d, and no, he and Hubbard are not one and the same, but don't hold that against him; Hubbard has a lot of very valuable life information to impart and if you've got the guts to not be a victim and not blame anyone else for the condition your life is in, then this Scientology stuff might just be for you. For the record, I'm not keeping track of any replies to this post because explaining/defending Scientology to critics takes up way too much time. I've spent about an hour writing this and I've got way too much to do. So you who are interested, you're on your own, just check out the official site and I think you'll dig it. www.scientology.org. (Always go to the source to find out something for yourself. Would you appreciate someone asking you what your viewpoint is on something, or would you prefer that someone go to your enemies and ask where you stand on an issue?!) Those of you who took offense or found some other reason to go up in arms or spout spews or whatever you'll do in response here, go for it. Spew yourself silly. Get all blue in the face. Someone is bound to care and to listen to you; it just won't be me.

In the late 70's I wrote L. Ron Hubbard to ask him why he called his organization a Church, as the word Church is specific to Christianity. The Jews do not go to Church, the Moslems don't go to Church etc. I told him the only reason I could figure was for tax exempt status. He wrote me back and said I should ask one of the leaders in the local Church it was to complicated to explain in a letter. I didn't bother.

Jade's intro is typically Scientological. She presses the 'family, law-abiding, and material success' buttons.

This is typical, because they all seem to be greedy, mistaking material possessions as a sign of success.

She lives in Carlsbad, CA, and probably belongs to the San Diego org. (cultspeak for center)

The org is definately not "law-abiding!" They have sent PIs to lurk around my house and follow friends leaving here. They sent people to intimidate my elderly parents, telling my dad, "We know how to shut her up!"

Two years ago, they phoned in a false report that I planned on blowing up a "church" of Scientology, and two detectives came to my door. I gave them a good education on Scientology's history of abuses, criminality and harassment.

Jade, you should get the rocks out of your head and take a real hard look at the organization you defend. In fifty years, they've racked up quite a past, including the perpetration of the largest domestic espionage case in the history of the USA.
They infiltrated government offices, bugged them and stole thousands of documents related to Scientology. Hubbard, that creep, went into hiding for the rest of his life, and let his wife, Mary Sue, and several "loyal officers" do hard time for his crime. FBI raids uncovered all this. Google "operation snow white" for details.

And yet, the poor, gullible saps who defend Scientology believe the lies told by management about this incident.

Jade, do you believe that Mary Sue Hubbard was imprisoned for "stealing Xerox paper?"
Do you believe Hubbard was a nuclear physicist, a doctor, a war hero? There is too much evidence, solid evidence about his life...he dropped out of college, purchased a doctorate from a diploma mill, and was a snivelling incompetent while serving in the Navy.

Ditz, indeed!

Raymond,

I am sorry if I offended you; I wasn't trying to analyze you or judge you, but made those comments only based on your comments. Actually, you may have analyzed me yourself, by calling me a ditz, you see? And also by trying to judge my education... your guesses were incorrect.

I do not negatively judge those who differ from me. I have lots of acquaintances with whom I disagree on subjects, even philosophy and politics. We agree to disagree! I think in this world, we must do that, or no one would get along! I am human and make mistakes; I also apologize for them!

I am sorry that you feel that way about Scientology, and that you met and were associated with those who, from your description, sound like very mean people. Fortunately, I've met no other Scientologists that fit that description, and I will defend myself in saying that I am totally not like that at all.

Please do not put all Scientologists, or all of any group for that matter, into one category. That would be like saying that all Catholics are child-molesters! Completely false, you see.

Rather than continuing this debate, I will make this my final response. I wish you luck, Raymond, and hope that not only will you never have to deal with such people again, but that you find success in life, no matter what your beliefs are.

Dear Jade,
First of all, you do not know anything about me. Once again this shows you the true meaning of scientology, you try to make accusations about me and than analyze me. Once again shame on you. I am not mad at anybody, but people like yourself
who are nothing but hypocrites. As for your education, okay: let me guess , philosphy, history or like jim and carol "MUSIC".

Yes you are certainly qualified through your achievements of higher education, to judge and decipher about others. This is the problem you can pass judgement on anyone who does not agree with you, but nothing you do is wrong. Well ms educated smarty pants, observe these known facts.
L.RON HUBBARD WAS NOTHING MORE THAN A SCIENCE FICTION WRITER, THE SO CALLED CHURCH (HIDES BEHIND THIS NAME TO AVOID PAYING TAXES) BUYS COPIES OF THAT SO CALLED DYANETICS, TO KEEP THE BOOK ON SHELVES. THIRDLY- TELL US HOW MANY TIMES YOU HAVE PAID FOR WORTHLESS AUDITING. HOW MUCH MONEY HAVE YOU PAID THE CHURCH?

LET ME ASK YOU THIS?
DO YOU TREAT YOUR EMPLOYEES LIKE DIRT AND TRY TO INTIMIDATE THEM TO WORK HARDER FOR YOUR OWN FINANCIAL BENEFIT.
DO YOU TRY TO COERCE PEOPLE TO JOIN THE CHURCH, IN ORDER TO REMOVE YOUR HIGH DEBTS.
WHEN THE GIRL WHO WORKS FOR YOU, CLAIMS HER MOTHER HAS TO GO TO CHEMOTHERAPY- DO YOU BASICALLY SPIT ON HER AND TELL HER TO GET BACK TO WORK OR SHE'LL BE FIRED.

WELL MOST OF YOUR MEMBERS DO. SO IF YOU BELEIVE IN THIS LIFESTYLE YOUR A DITZ.

This is to comment on the fellow from New York who called me "ditzy". Why this respectable website published his "offensive" comment, I do not know. I do, however, know that any intelligent person could easily see the difference between him and me. Sadly, he has to make a comment like this and try to intimidate people instead of simply make a personal viewpoint. NOTE to him: You do NOT intimidate me! I feel sorry for you and hope you can get your life together and stop hating people. I could sit here and try to defend myself by talking about my extensive education and respect in my community, but why bother? Good luck getting your life together, and hopefully you can look past your bad experiences and do well in life.

I worked for a couple that was involved with scientology. They were well educated spoiled rich brats, who had severe mental issues and could not cope with life. Scientology basically teaches someone to be sucessful by intimidation and exploitation of others. If you note most people deep into this radical cult, previously lead reckless lives, they could not find sanctity anywhere. So their answer to a substantial meaningful life is learning how to run up expensive bills and then try to con innocent people into joining the cult.

As for working the BALLS off of your employees and than trying to intimidate them, you should be ashamed of yourselves. The majority of this cult is so demented and awful. As for the likes of cruise and travolta, they tryed to break away from this church, but were compelled to stay on as members otherwise the church 'would ruin them.

Yes as for the ditzy lady from California. You and the rest of your cult all fit this profile.

I'm a mother and law-abiding citizen. I use Scientology every day to help me communicate and be a better person and a better parent. I know lots of people who do the same. It's not a cult. I live in a nice home in a great area and drive a nice car. I wear nice clothes and have lots of good friends, both Scientologists and those of other religions.

What we all have in common is that we are good people, who want good lives for everyone, and want to live an honest life and teach our children to be good citizens, etc... I've met people nationwide who work for Scientology and not one seemed unhappy or overworked. They all wanted to work from their own free will, as Missionaries, to help others. They should be applauded for what they do and for their care for others. No one forces them to be there; if that were the case, after 50 years they would be shut down or illegalized!

If one wants to better their life using Scientology, let them; after all, people are free to practice any belief and self-help method in this country! And if one wants to find out more, they should go to a local church and talk to its members.

Remember, there are bad apples in every group. Just because some Catholic priests did some illegal things, we shouldn't think all Catholics are bad, right? A lot of them are very kind, family-minded people who do a lot for the community; in fact, I am a volunteer of a children's hospital group where many members are Catholic.

Well, the same must go for Scientology. There must be a lot more good than bad, though, because a lot of people like myself are using it, and really get benefits.

If you don't like Scientology, go find your way. I hope you can be as happy as I am!

Good luck.

You're all going to hell ...Haha, now that I got your attention, Arnaldo, the man claiming L Ron Hubbard is the KING of CONS is correct. I have lived and workerd in downtown Clearwater, FLorida, the world headquarters of scientology, for more than 10 years now and I can attest that scientology is a cult, plain and simple. I worked in a doctor's office in Clearwater which the cult specially chose to be it's medical provider and from that experience, I learned that the members are completely brainwashed, totally ignorant, and about 40% actually begged, and I mean BEGGED, the doctor to write a note to their boss that they could no longer work, and from the doctor's diagnosis most of them actually were working way too hard and suffered from fatigue and malnutrition. Furthermore, the cult actually did come under fire for the death of a woman after they refused to allow her seek medical treatment. From conversations with members, both at work and around the city, I learned that they share extremely tight living quarters with at least a dozen other people. All of the money they earn goes to the cult. These poor people are the ones doing all the grunt work, while the leaders let celebrities like Tom Cruise and John Travolta live "normal" lives so the public won't know the truth. The cult provides transportation for them everywhere now so there is no risk of them telling outsiders like me what really is going on in there. While in high school, my friend's mother became a full fledged scientologist and my friend was no longer allowed to keep contact with those of us outside the cult. I only spoke to him once after that and he told me how he fears for his mom's life and for his younger siblings who have no choice in the matter. He wanted out. If anyone out there is listening don't be fooled by the celebrities or the drug treatment centers which supposedly work miracles. It's all manipulation and brainwashing. I wish someone would reveal what kind of working, living, and spiritual conditions these poor people spend their entire lives dealing with and most of all, I wish this cult would just move out of our city!

You're all going to hell ...Haha, now that I got your attention, Arnaldo, the man claiming L Ron Hubbard is the KING of CONS is correct. I have lived and workerd in downtown Clearwater, FLorida, the world headquarters of scientology, for more than 10 years now and I can attest that scientology is a cult, plain and simple. I worked in a doctor's office in Clearwater which the cult specially chose to be it's medical provider and from that experience, I learned that the members are completely brainwashed, totally ignorant, and about 40% actually begged, and I mean BEGGED, the doctor to write a note to their boss that they could no longer work, and from the doctor's diagnosis most of them actually were working way too hard and suffered from fatigue and malnutrition. Furthermore, the cult actually did come under fire for the death of a woman after they refused to allow her seek medical treatment. From conversations with members, both at work and around the city, I learned that they share extremely tight living quarters with at least a dozen other people. All of the money they earn goes to the cult. These poor people are the ones doing all the grunt work, while the leaders let celebrities like Tom Cruise and John Travolta live "normal" lives so the public won't know the truth. The cult provides transportation for them everywhere now so there is no risk of them telling outsiders like me what really is going on in there. While in high school, my friend's mother became a full fledged scientologist and my friend was no longer allowed to keep contact with those of us outside the cult. I only spoke to him once after that and he told me how he fears for his mom's life and for his younger siblings who have no choice in the matter. He wanted out. If anyone out there is listening don't be fooled by the celebrities or the drug treatment centers which supposedly work miracles. It's all manipulation and brainwashing. I wish someone would reveal what kind of working, living, and spiritual conditions these poor people spend their entire lives dealing with and most of all, I wish this cult would just move out of our city!

You're all going to hell ...Haha, now that I got your attention, Arnaldo, the man claiming L Ron Hubbard is the KING of CONS is correct. I have lived and workerd in downtown Clearwater, FLorida, the world headquarters of scientology, for more than 10 years now and I can attest that scientology is a cult, plain and simple. I worked in a doctor's office in Clearwater which the cult specially chose to be it's medical provider and from that experience, I learned that the members are completely brainwashed, totally ignorant, and about 40% actually begged, and I mean BEGGED, the doctor to write a note to their boss that they could no longer work, and from the doctor's diagnosis most of them actually were working way too hard and suffered from fatigue and malnutrition. Furthermore, the cult actually did come under fire for the death of a woman after they refused to allow her seek medical treatment. From conversations with members, both at work and around the city, I learned that they share extremely tight living quarters with at least a dozen other people. All of the money they earn goes to the cult. These poor people are the ones doing all the grunt work, while the leaders let celebrities like Tom Cruise and John Travolta live "normal" lives so the public won't know the truth. The cult provides transportation for them everywhere now so there is no risk of them telling outsiders like me what really is going on in there. While in high school, my friend's mother became a full fledged scientologist and my friend was no longer allowed to keep contact with those of us outside the cult. I only spoke to him once after that and he told me how he fears for his mom's life and for his younger siblings who have no choice in the matter. He wanted out. If anyone out there is listening don't be fooled by the celebrities or the drug treatment centers which supposedly work miracles. It's all manipulation and brainwashing. I wish someone would reveal what kind of working, living, and spiritual conditions these poor people spend their entire lives dealing with and most of all, I wish this cult would just move out of our city!

Fish that's what I say. Fish. Oh, Scientology? Well, I always thought that the two most ridiculous names that they ever came up with was The Super Bowl and Scientology. You know, for what they are and all that. Stupid names. Now they have both done pretty well money-wise. not Fish but Scientology and Football. Well actually, fish probably does better on a world wide basis; you know per capita and all that. That thing about Scientology, you know when you get to be a big Cuda and all and then they tell you a sci-fi story, well I guess if you have been through all those levels, you can take the joke. I just wonder about Tom Cruise. Can he handle it? Oh well, it is easier to be in the Church than the NFL. Also, having to either fish or cut bait is the metaphor in just about every important life situation. Like I said before, just Fish!

Your comments about L. Ron Hubbard are way obsessive in my view. In the final analysis what does it really matter if Hubbard studied Nuclear Physics or not? The test is does Scientology help people as advertised or not? Do people who do a "Communication Course" get thier moneies worth? Does the Drug rehab Orginization (narconon)of the Church bring drug free graduate's? Can the study methods of its Applied Scholastics Non-Profit Organization bring forth a new literate person who was barely able to learn previously? Can the advanced levels of Scientology Religious Study (Non-Denominational) help a person understand his relation with God and the Universe around him?
In short does Scientolgy work and produce the desired result? Well I can tell you I can attest to its efficacy. I have done Scientology courses and counseling off and on over the past twenty years. I can say I think I got a REAL VALUE for every dollar I donated to the Church for EVERY service I requested. Scientology WORKS!
Having youeself been around Scientologist you know that, or you are a fool. Perhaps you may be better served by some drug pushing shrink, as you are clearly obsessive and compulsive in your rambeling attack uppon a man that THOUSANDS of people worldwide would and DO respect as a great SPIRITUAL leader of his time. The man is passed on now, give it a rest!

Jerry... let me preface this by saying that I intend this to be a friendly debate, and that I respect you and am not trying to dissuade your faith.

Your reasoning exemplifies the problems that I have with religion, and why I think religion is "sily." On a different post you tried to confront my use of the word "mythology" by showing the dictionary difference between the terms "mythology" and "religion." Ignoring the fact that a rebuttal based purely on semantics is hardly effective, even by those definitions I had used the term properly. I was not referring to the worship of a deity but rather the belief in ancient stories about the origin, purposes and meanings of the universe. Isn't that what you correctly defined as mythology?

In this case, you advise our reader that God himself says you should test everything and do your research before believing in something. Further, you shouldn't just take somebody's word for it. Isn't that precisely what your doing in dismissing the whole field of academia? Aren't you just taking the word of people without any concrete evidence? At least academia is built upon research and proven facts. The sole basis of most religions is the ideas that people thousands of years ago came up with to explain a world that they were incapable of understanding.

On the other post I claimed that religion is responsible for countless attrocities throughout history. You countered this by claiming that religion brought us brotherly love and the principles of democracy. Are you asserting that humans are incapable of treating eachother kindly without religion? History shows us the exact opposite. I will concede that religion, and specifically Christianity, has achieved some good. But can you ignore the inquisition? The exploitation of Native Americans in the name of Christianity? The years of terorism in Ireland and the Middle East?

Democracy did not spring from the Bible. When Chritianity ruled the world we called it the "dark ages." Democratic ideals, first off, were espoused in Mayan and Greek cultures thousands of years before Christ was even born. In America, democracy came about as a rejection of the intertwining of government and religion.
If you want to stick to the argument that our country was founded on Christian principles, keep in mind that those principles allowed for the keeping of slaves, the oppression of women and the notion that only wealthy people should be allowed to vote.

All that being said, James, I would like to thank you for giving me the opportunity to engage in this friendly little debate. I'm always up for a good theology vs. science discussion, and I'll respect your faith as long as you respect my lack thereof.

have a good day!

Jerry... let me preface this by saying that I intend this to be a friendly debate, and that I respect you and am not trying to dissuade your faith.

Your reasoning exemplifies the problems that I have with religion, and why I think religion is "sily." On a different post you tried to confront my use of the word "mythology" by showing the dictionary difference between the terms "mythology" and "religion." Ignoring the fact that a rebuttal based purely on semantics is hardly effective, even by those definitions I had used the term properly. I was not referring to the worship of a deity but rather the belief in ancient stories about the origin, purposes and meanings of the universe. Isn't that what you correctly defined as mythology?

In this case, you advise our reader that God himself says you should test everything and do your research before believing in something. Further, you shouldn't just take somebody's word for it. Isn't that precisely what your doing in dismissing the whole field of academia? Aren't you just taking the word of people without any concrete evidence? At least academia is built upon research and proven facts. The sole basis of most religions is the ideas that people thousands of years ago came up with to explain a world that they were incapable of understanding.

On the other post I claimed that religion is responsible for countless attrocities throughout history. You countered this by claiming that religion brought us brotherly love and the principles of democracy. Are you asserting that humans are incapable of treating eachother kindly without religion? History shows us the exact opposite. I will concede that religion, and specifically Christianity, has achieved some good. But can you ignore the inquisition? The exploitation of Native Americans in the name of Christianity? The years of terorism in Ireland and the Middle East?

Democracy did not spring from the Bible. When Chritianity ruled the world we called it the "dark ages." Democratic ideals, first off, were espoused in Mayan and Greek cultures thousands of years before Christ was even born. In America, democracy came about as a rejection of the intertwining of government and religion.
If you want to stick to the argument that our country was founded on Christian principles, keep in mind that those principles allowed for the keeping of slaves, the oppression of women and the notion that only wealthy people should be allowed to vote.

All that being said, James, I would like to thank you for giving me the opportunity to engage in this friendly little debate. I'm always up for a good theology vs. science discussion, and I'll respect your faith as long as you respect my lack thereof.

have a good day!

Jerry... let me preface this by saying that I intend this to be a friendly debate, and that I respect you and am not trying to dissuade your faith.

Your reasoning exemplifies the problems that I have with religion, and why I think religion is "sily." On a different post you tried to confront my use of the word "mythology" by showing the dictionary difference between the terms "mythology" and "religion." Ignoring the fact that a rebuttal based purely on semantics is hardly effective, even by those definitions I had used the term properly. I was not referring to the worship of a deity but rather the belief in ancient stories about the origin, purposes and meanings of the universe. Isn't that what you correctly defined as mythology?

In this case, you advise our reader that God himself says you should test everything and do your research before believing in something. Further, you shouldn't just take somebody's word for it. Isn't that precisely what your doing in dismissing the whole field of academia? Aren't you just taking the word of people without any concrete evidence? At least academia is built upon research and proven facts. The sole basis of most religions is the ideas that people thousands of years ago came up with to explain a world that they were incapable of understanding.

On the other post I claimed that religion is responsible for countless attrocities throughout history. You countered this by claiming that religion brought us brotherly love and the principles of democracy. Are you asserting that humans are incapable of treating eachother kindly without religion? History shows us the exact opposite. I will concede that religion, and specifically Christianity, has achieved some good. But can you ignore the inquisition? The exploitation of Native Americans in the name of Christianity? The years of terorism in Ireland and the Middle East?

Democracy did not spring from the Bible. When Chritianity ruled the world we called it the "dark ages." Democratic ideals, first off, were espoused in Mayan and Greek cultures thousands of years before Christ was even born. In America, democracy came about as a rejection of the intertwining of government and religion.
If you want to stick to the argument that our country was founded on Christian principles, keep in mind that those principles allowed for the keeping of slaves, the oppression of women and the notion that only wealthy people should be allowed to vote.

All that being said, James, I would like to thank you for giving me the opportunity to engage in this friendly little debate. I'm always up for a good theology vs. science discussion, and I'll respect your faith as long as you respect my lack thereof.

have a good day!

Jerry... let me preface this by saying that I intend this to be a friendly debate, and that I respect you and am not trying to dissuade your faith.

Your reasoning exemplifies the problems that I have with religion, and why I think religion is "sily." On a different post you tried to confront my use of the word "mythology" by showing the dictionary difference between the terms "mythology" and "religion." Ignoring the fact that a rebuttal based purely on semantics is hardly effective, even by those definitions I had used the term properly. I was not referring to the worship of a deity but rather the belief in ancient stories about the origin, purposes and meanings of the universe. Isn't that what you correctly defined as mythology?

In this case, you advise our reader that God himself says you should test everything and do your research before believing in something. Further, you shouldn't just take somebody's word for it. Isn't that precisely what your doing in dismissing the whole field of academia? Aren't you just taking the word of people without any concrete evidence? At least academia is built upon research and proven facts. The sole basis of most religions is the ideas that people thousands of years ago came up with to explain a world that they were incapable of understanding.

On the other post I claimed that religion is responsible for countless attrocities throughout history. You countered this by claiming that religion brought us brotherly love and the principles of democracy. Are you asserting that humans are incapable of treating eachother kindly without religion? History shows us the exact opposite. I will concede that religion, and specifically Christianity, has achieved some good. But can you ignore the inquisition? The exploitation of Native Americans in the name of Christianity? The years of terorism in Ireland and the Middle East?

Democracy did not spring from the Bible. When Chritianity ruled the world we called it the "dark ages." Democratic ideals, first off, were espoused in Mayan and Greek cultures thousands of years before Christ was even born. In America, democracy came about as a rejection of the intertwining of government and religion.
If you want to stick to the argument that our country was founded on Christian principles, keep in mind that those principles allowed for the keeping of slaves, the oppression of women and the notion that only wealthy people should be allowed to vote.

All that being said, James, I would like to thank you for giving me the opportunity to engage in this friendly little debate. I'm always up for a good theology vs. science discussion, and I'll respect your faith as long as you respect my lack thereof.

have a good day!

Ill tell you who you are to question anyone. The Bible is the Creators Hand book as it where on everything.

God says to test everything. (1 John 4: 1, 1 Corinthians 2: 15, 1 Thessalonians 5: 21) Dont just let someone tell you this is thus, or that is so. Call them on the carpet. Make sure theyre in the know.

We have for far to long allowed academia to look down their collective noses and say this is true that is not. If you want to know something, research it. Dont take someones word.

God is not going to judge Jerry by what Tom, d**k, or Harry said did or believed. He will Judge me my what I do, say, and believe. So I had better Do, say, and Believe the truth. Dont you think?