Tempe Honda, New And Used Cars Sales BUYER BEWARE! "TOTAL LIES" & UNETHICAL DEALINGS" - NEW CAR PURCHASE & TRADE-IN PRICING Tempe Arizona
In November 2006 we purchased from Tempe Honda in Tempe Arizona a 2007 Honda Civic EX w/navigation VIN # 2HGFG12877H507001, for our daughter, attending college. In September of 2008 our daughter had an accident. The car was repaired and on October 24th, 2008 she picked up the vehicle.
In November the alarm system in the Honda was going off frequently in the middle of the night. We told her to manually lock the doors and when she came home Christmas we would take it to Tempe Honda.
Upon coming home to Phoenix on her break, we took the car to Tempe Honda Service to see if they could figure what was wrong with the alarm system and fix a few other minor problems. It took more than one visit and an overnight stay for them to diagnose and fix the problem, or so we had hoped. We had told them that the car had been in an accident and if the repairs were relative to the accident it could be charged to the accident. They said it was covered under the warranty. The alarm problem was so reoccurring that we were skeptical if it was truly fixed
On December 26th, 2008 we were picking up the 2007 Honda from the Service Department and decided to speak to a Sales Associate. We inquired about the price of a new 2009 Honda Civic EX w/navigation. At the same time we asked how much we could get for the 2007 Honda Civic EX w/navigation as a trade-in. We owed a balance of $15,838.01 and were hoping we would get close to that figure as a trade-in as the retail value of the car was close to $17,000.00.
We were upfront about the car being in an accident and realized we would have to take less than if it were accident free. The car only had approximately 13500 miles on it at this time, the oil was changed at 13435, there was still the remainder of the original 36000 miles factory warranty left, and the car was immaculate. After talking about the price of a new 2009 Honda Civic EX w/navigation, he came up with a trade-in value of $12,000.
We were thinking more in the amount of $15,000. Oh no! The car had been an accident! He gave us a printout from Manheim Auctions indicating the prices they would be able to get for a 2007 Honda Civic 2DCoupe EX (supposedly with navigation) and stated that $12,000 is the best they could do. We agreed to the sale, trusting their word that they would sell the car at auction. Our main concern was that our daughter had a reliable car, free of accidents and recurring alarm problems.
The liability or fault of the accident our daughter was in has not yet been determined. Fault is being determined by Arbitration this month. We are anticipating that the other driver's insurance company will be held responsible. If it turns out in our daughter's favor, we were told it might be possible to ask the other drivers insurance to pay towards the depreciated value of our trade-in. The reason being; we could have gotten a much better trade-in allowance If the accident did not occur.
We feel it will be worth a try. To back up our claim, we contacted our salesman, and asked him for a copy of the Carfax. He was happy to help. On 1/2/2009, he accompanied me to the Used Car Sales Office and they printed out a copy of the Carfax and the Total Black Book Valuation, which is used to determine trade-in values. The gentleman at the counter said, That we definitely would be had gotten more money if the car had not been in an accident.
On the morning of January 7, 2009 I was reading the Arizona Republic. Curiously I looked in the classified car section and looked up what a 2007 Honda Civic like our daughters was selling for. There was an ad and the price was $15,977. I knew it could not be ours, as our car would be sold at auction. I decided to go to the website and look at it. As I thought, it was not our daughter's vehicle. However, I scrolled down the page and our daughter's car that we had traded in was there. Not only was it there, it was being sold as a HONDA CERTIFIED PRE-OWNED VEHICLE for $16,988.
I printed the brochure. Not only is it Certified, under the Vehicle Condition section it indicates Original Paint, No Known Accidents, No known Bodywork and more. I could not believe what I was reading. Not only that, the CarMax, states 12/31/2008, Offered for sale as a Honda Certified Used Car. Obviously, our trade-in is what we said, immaculate and well cared for. We feel that we had been violated and defrauded. How can they get away with this kind of unethical business practice? The dealer was dishonest with us and their dishonesty doesn't end with us.
I continued each morning to look on the website to see if the vehicle was still on their website. As of January 11th, 2009, the website displays Vehicle Not Found in Database. Did they sell it? Should or can we do something about it? Can we find out to whom the car was sold to? Did they realize their mistake and make things right? Should I call the General Manager? Do I file a complaint with the BBB and the FTC? Do I notify NACA? Should I contact a lawyer? Would any of the local TV stations such as; Channel 3's- On Your Side, Channel 5's- Investigations 5iTeam, Channel 12's-Call 12 for Action, Channel 10's- Investigation or ABC's 15 Investigators be interested?
Perhaps we should have sold the car ourselves; at least we would have been honest about the car being in an accident. We have been a loyal customer, with faith and trust in Tempe Honda. We bought the 2007 Honda Civic at Tempe Honda dealership and feel we were treated honestly then. Not anymore! This deal is costing us close to $4,000 in addition over the next 60 months, as it was added on the loan of the new vehicle.
On Thursday, January 15, 2009 I went to Tempe Honda and spoke with the General Manager, Dave Wallace. It was not a good meeting. I decided to just go ahead and get our experience out to other consumers before what happened to us happens to them.
We are their victims and so are the people who bought our trade-in!
Mary
Phoenix, Arizona
U.S.A.
Click here to read other Rip Off Reports on Honda & Honda Delaers
4 Updates & Rebuttals
Asarualim
Reston,Virginia,
U.S.A.
Funny thing about the car business, no one believes you should make a profit
#5Consumer Comment
Sun, February 22, 2009
The funny thing about the car business is that no one believes you should make a profit, ever! I have sold cars, new Hondas in Virginia to be precise, for almost three years and the story is always the same. The customer wants more money for their car and less money for the dealer's car. Moreover, a car is a negotiable item, obviously the dealer low balled you on the trade in value and hit you high on the new car price. Why? He was trying to make a, gasp, profit!
Now nine times out of ten the client shakes their head, makes a counter offer, and the negotiations ensue the end result being that a deal is usually made. That initial offer is just an attempt to feel the client out and see what you have. In your specific case I bet your trade in may have been worth anywhere from 13000 to 14000 so hitting you at 12000 is perfectly respectable (it was definitely not worth 15k, way too much to pay for that car, even without an accident). But you were that one out of ten customers that we love, you said yes at 12000!
Now you saw your trade in listed at 16988, correct? Does that mean they will sell it for that number? No I don't think so. And if they do, more power to them. No the reality is the certification process costs money, advertising costs money, paying the sales people, fixed costs, etc. and then there is profit, the reason folks go into business in the first place. Selling cars is a challenging, highly competitive field which requires lots of hard work and dedication. Profit margins on new cars is very slim. My dealership averages about $360-480 (depending on the month) per a new cars and $850-1200 net profit per a used cars . Naturally these numbers can and do fluctuate month to month. When you are buying inventory that cost anywhere from 15-27k, make a couple hundred dollars off that kind of investment is not much at all. If it wasn't for the service department no dealership in this nation would be able to operate.
The funny thing is, no one cares if Starbucks makes 2 dollars on every 4 dollar frappachino it sells or if coca-cola is making too much money for each bottle of flavored sugar water it sells. Yet we all care immensely what the car dealer is making.
There is more information then ever before available on and off line when purchasing a new or used car. There is no longer any asymmetrical information advantage that the dealer has, which is why car salespeople like myself have seen our income shrink over time while the amount of work we have to do has increased dramatically. This is also, on a personal note, why I went back to school. If you made a bad deal the only person you have to blame is yourself.
What you are basically saying is that the car dealer can not make any profit, that they have to bend over and take it at the drop of the hat. Well as a car salesman, I will admit that I have dropped trow, bent over, and taken it in the pooper, hard, on several occasions. But we make the customer's work for it. We will just not do it at the drop of the hat; I'm not that easy!
Oh by the way, sometimes it takes over six months for items to be posted to Carfax. If you reported the accident to the police or the insurance company, believe me, Carfax will learn about it eventually. This is why you can register a purchase with Carfax to protect yourself from being hit by delayed negative news.
Why did you trade in this car in the first place? It sounds like they fixed it, under warranty, and the problem was solved. No matter what you were going to be upside down! You should never have traded it in at all.
You are so not a victim and I find it amusing that you are wasting so much of your life in a futile pursuit to get well, I don't know what you could possibly get out of this. Move on with your life already and make a better deal next time.
Inspector
Tobyhanna,Pennsylvania,
U.S.A.
Is there another chapter in this boring saga?.....I hope not!
#5Consumer Comment
Mon, February 09, 2009
You need to get a life or get on with it and drop this fixation you have with this car. You are not the only person in the world that lost on a trade and was lied to.
No one is trying to hide the car from you and you are definitly not giving any grief to the dealer. He has his money and the car no longer belong to him.
Jeeez, quit now before you give yourself a stroke over something so silly.
mcrobb
Phoenix,Arizona,
U.S.A.
UPDATE! BUYER BEWARE of Tempe Honda, Tempe AZ - New And Used Cars Sales! What constitutes a "CERTIFIED USED CAR?
#5Author of original report
Mon, February 09, 2009
CHAPTER III
What constitutes a "CERTIFIED USED CAR? It's your money, you be the judge!
Want to read additional information about the label "CERTIFIED USED CAR"?
Here are some articles about this so-called "Certified Used Car" hoax...lies...scam...ripoff. I doubt very much that a "Qualified Mechanic" did much of an inspection on our car. We turned in the car in meticulous condition and because it was so clean, it was an "easy money label" they could put on the car. It is my understanding it is a part of the "Honda Certified" deal that they give a copy of the CARFAX to the buyer. Do they do this automatically as part of the "Certified Package or is it "if they don't ask, don't tell rule. If they give a CARFAX with our trade-in, the buyer should run the other way. What happens if the buyer of our trade-in decides to trade-in the car in a year or so? The new dealer runs the CARFAX and the dealer offers them even less, and the buyer never even knew the car had been in an accident.
Here are some links that will make you question the label CERTIFIED USED CAR!
http://goliath.ecnext.com/coms2/gi_0199-4863102/Certified-pre-owned-programs-defraud.html
http://members.caala.org/.eea1297
http://blogs.edmunds.com/strategies/2007/12/certified-pre-owned-dont-let-the-label-fool-you.html
http://www.ucan.org/gasoline_autos/automobiles/top_10_auto_scams
(taken from this website above)
Scam 10. "Certified" Used Vehicles Several manufacturers and some dealerships have "certified" used vehicle programs. Generally, a used vehicle that passes certain standards is labeled "certified used" and is suppose to guarantee to the customer that the used vehicle is in good working order and free from major structural damage (including prior accidents.) However, a lot of vehicles that don't actually qualify as "certified" under the standards advertised are being labeled certified. Customers are ending up with certified vehicles with frame damage from prior accidents.
What happens next? Is there a CHAPTER IV?
Mary
mcrobb
Phoenix,Arizona,
U.S.A.
UPDATE! Tempe Honda, New And Used Cars Sales BUYER BEWARE! "TOTAL LIES" & UNETHICAL DEALINGS" Will it ever end???
#5Author of original report
Mon, February 09, 2009
Chapter II
UPDATE! BUYER BEWARE of Tempe Honda, Tempe AZ
New And Used Cars Sales! THEY DO NOT KNOW THE MEANING OF "UNETHICAL"
THE LIES ARE PILING UP!
So why is it we feel it is our ethical duty to be truthful that the car was in an accident when we were trading it in at Tempe Honda? Should I have not told them? Could I have gotten away with it? Probably not! So why should they? I need to be honest with them and they don't have to be honest with me or anyone else, right? Does honesty and integrity mean anything? There needs to be some kind of law against their unethical fraudulent ways they run their businesses. Maybe I can check into this...not a bad idea!
So do I have buyer remorse? Yes, of course! Wouldn't anyone? No one looks back and checks where or what happened to their car they traded in, right? I wasn't looking to stir up any bad dealing practices, it just happened. I am glad it did. My experience has taught me that they are not honest in any part of their dealings. I will never do business with them again. There is nothing they can do that will earn my trust back! It's just like the Wall Street corruption, only on a smaller personal scale. Not to just me either, this sort of thing happens to just about everyone. Will I buy another Honda... probably yes...from Tempe Honda? No! I will be much smarter next time. In the meantime, I will tell any and everyone I meet about the unethical practices of Tempe Honda. Will this hurt their business? I hope so. I am the consumer; ultimately their bread and butter and I do not like to be lied to. No one does! Hopefully they continue to get caught, I am certainly trying my best to make sure they do.
So did Tempe Honda sell the car we traded in? We thought so, however it appears on the updated CARFAX that they have shipped it to Denver, Colorado. Now why would they ship it so far away? Maybe they are afraid someone will read The Ripoff Report...or perhaps the word of mouth of an unhappy consumer scares them? They probably do have a much better chance of selling it in another state. Check out this link www.carfax.com/cfm/gvh_display.cfm?Inventory_ID=51363250 and the CARFAX for our trade-in will come up (or you may also GOOGLE VIN#2HGFG12877H507001). It shows that on 1/30/2009 the vehicle is now located in Denver Colorado. Now click on the (blue underlined link further down on the report) Honda Certified Used Car and it will take you to a Honda dealership in Westminster, Colorado where the car is suppose to be located now, I guess! My husband, who happens to be in Colorado right now, went by the dealership and the salesman said the car wasn't coming to their dealership. So where is it? Maybe they are waiting until the storm lifts. I think it is going to be a long winter!
AND THERES MORE! What's the hype about obtaining a CARFAX before you buy? On their website http://www.carfax.com/ it is labeled DON'T BUY A USED CAR WITHOUT CARFAX! It's undeniable that the CARFAX information can be useful and give you some sort of peace of mind about buying a used car. However, you should not stop there. CARFAX can only report the information that is available to them. At the bottom of the CARFAX the GLOSSARY gives you very important information about the report. The last item (see below) clearly states that Arizona Police Reports are released to CARFAX approximately 12 months after the accident date. Is this enough information for anyone? Seems to mea lot can happen in 12 months. Don't you agree?
The following was taken directly from the report.
Arizona Police Reports:
Provide an estimate of the extent of damage in its accident reports for the following:
SEVERE: The vehicle cannot be driven from the accident scene due to severe damage or an injury. This level of damage often results in a Salvage or Junk title.
DISABLED: The vehicle had to be towed or hauled away from the accident location.
FUNCTIONAL: The vehicle could be driven from the accident location.
MODERATE: The accident damage affects the operation of the vehicle and/or its parts. Examples include broken windows, trunk lids, doors, bumpers and tires.
MINOR: The accident damage does not affect the operation of the vehicle. Examples include dented bumpers, fenders, grills and body panels. This level of accident should not compromise vehicle safety.
NO DAMAGE: The vehicle was not damaged.
Are required if the estimated damage exceeds $1000
Are released to CARFAX approximately 12 months after the accident date
What will CHAPTER III bring?
Mary