Teresa Semeling And Bill Payne Of We Sell 4 U Or We Breed For You 4 Cat Breeder without Concern for the Animal or the Buyer-They are unethical, misleading and can not be trusted! Payette Idaho
Cat Breeders who don't care....
Teresa Semeling and Bill Payne are what they describe as "small breeders". They claim they have only one male and one female cat that they breed. Maybe, this is why money would seem more important than a positive transaction to them. When the health of one their kittens is in question, they refuse to take the appropriate measures to rectify the situation! They may have had success with the sale of "healthy" kittens in the past, however, my experience is; when faced with the loss of a kitten they sold,(the loss occurring within the usual probationary time period as viewed by the "Lemon" laws of this state for animal sales)their concern, seemed to lay more with the monetary loss they would face rather than "appropriate business action" in a timely manner.
I purchased a Blue Persian kitten from these breeders via an ad. They told me they would deliver the "healthy" kitten to California from Idaho on the 4th of October, 2008. I paid in full both a deposit and then final payment prior to their departure.
They delivered a kitten that was docile and frail. I was concerned about her habits almost immediately. I did contact the breeders regarding my concerns and decided to gave the kitten a day or so on the suggestion from the breeders that it was most likely just stress and not an issue to be too concerned about.(They said they had taken her to the vet a week prior, at 5weeks old and the vet gave authorization for her to be shipped and sold the next week.) Still by the next day the kitten continued to act uncharacteristically calm and frightfully lethargic.
The kitten was in fact ill or injured, (I'm not sure as to whether Teresa or Bill knew this kitten was suffering from an ailment, they claim they did not have any awareness of her being ill or injured in anyway) and in less than 52 hours was in a vet's care. Unfortunately, within a couple of hours the kitten had died. The vet sent all the reports from this incident as she was concerned about the loss occurring so soon after the purchase of this kitten and even suggested I confront the breeders. The kitten displayed extreme dehydration, traces of bile in her stool indicating a possible internal seeping,her abdomen was tight and distended and she expressed pain when touched in that area, she may have been too new to the solids or digesting improperly as she had just been introduced to the food by the breeders recently, she was barely 6 weeks old. This untimely death occurred just 2 days after we'd received her! We were so disappointed as you can imagine!
At first the breeders seem sympathetic and promised a replacement kitten with one of her siblings in 4 weeks. I felt this would be fine and more than fair, as I was convinced the kittens were a bit young, at 6 weeks to leave their mother anyway. When Teresa contacted me to inform me they were no longer willing to drive to California to deliver the sibling-kitten, I tried to work a shipping arrangement with a shared cost. They were not willing to cover the part of the expenses I'd requested from them,(less than 1/2)to ship the kitten. This was understandable, though, if it was too difficult for them to drive back to California from Idaho and the shipping cost were too extravagant, I thought, they should be willing refund even a small amount of my investment in the deceased kitten, to assist us in finding a new family pet. I then proceeded to request a partial refund; they refused and requested no further contact, that was more than 2 weeks ago.
I enlightened them to my feelings of "money over good business". This obviously upset them as they just referred to me as a "nasty person" (a pointless comment; as there really was no need for name calling in this situation) and again proceeded to act in counter-productive manner to any solution.
Thus the reason I have found it necessary to post this article. I would strongly caution anyone who deals with these breeders/cattery. From my prospective; they are the type to not consider your circumstance and position in a negative seller/buyer situation, cast blame rather than accept responsibility, act as if they've done nothing and then threaten you for making the issue a public matter. I feel, they do not deserve to keep their breeders status due to a breech of CFA (Cat Fanciers' Association) "Code of Ethics" in this profound situation, but all I can do is lodge a complaint.
It's always a shame and a disappointment when people are willing to put money between them and integrity, but, it would seem, this is a prime example of such behavior. Please be aware of the possibility of a severely negative buying experience from these breeders.
Thank you for your time.
****update! 10-28-08:
They offered me a small fraction of the money I paid initially to be refunded today, if I would close this site. I agreed to mark this site as a resolved issue when I received the money. They refused to pay, just as they refused to give up the second kitten. They called my actions "blackmail" and referred to me as an "extortionist"! These people are truly toxic to deal with and I urge anyone who would even consider entering a sales agreement with them to remember; They have yet to do one thing they've promised here!
They have a seller site you may visit:
(((Redacted)))
Zimmer
Kern County, California
U.S.A.
CLICK here to see why Rip-off Report, as a matter of policy, deleted either a phone number, link or e-mail address from this Report.
5 Updates & Rebuttals
Devilsadvocate4education*just My Opinions*
Las Vegas,Nevada,
U.S.A.
Comments and general suggestions
#6Consumer Comment
Fri, April 10, 2009
Um, maybe you both should just say I'm very sorry, learn some valuable lessons and move on.
If you intend to hold someone else responsible for death or illness make sure you have DEFINITIVE results from necropsy and/or health testing and provide them with the actual records. The truth, the description of the kittens illness and death are very vague and could be any number of things. Kittens and cats DO sleep a lot, but NEVER wait until it's an emergency. Most seller's may refuse to do anything based solely on that fact as PROMPT care could have made all the difference sometimes. It is wise to take a new pet to the vet within 24 hours of taking possession and beyond that immediately if you are concerned. Always talk to your breeder though. If they have experience and knowledge they can sometimes have a better idea of what is going on and what to do about it than your vet might (our vet's can't specialize in everything :-). This could have been FIP or an injury (there were small children involved) or defect, or a buyer who assumed the new baby was eating and drinking (it can also go the opposite way and improper hand' feeding can go HORRIBLY wrong) or anything. Without knowing FOR SURE, you really can not hold the other person responsible, though it's always easier to blame the other person and seems to be tenfold and intensified when it comes to our pets . Essentially, without definitive testing results, diagnosis, ect. (and all that ACTUAL paperwork in hand) you can't reasonably expect anything from the seller as they have no way of knowing whether they were involved or what the circumstances were, what the course of events was and what the test results were. Sorry, your word isn't enough. A letter is not enough. It takes PROOF.
It is not common for a seller to pay for shipping for any reason. Not initially, not for return and not for a replacement'. That is usually the buyer's responsibility unless it is specifically included in a written contract (contract usually says seller does not pay shipping any time for any reason). However, $500.00? Average shipping charged to customer is $250 to $350. Go ahead and start flipping through sites of breeder's who ship Even on the high end there's quite a bit of extra money in that estimate, where did it come from? What circumstances would have led to shipping costing $500?
Ummm. What shots did you give a 6 week old kitten? I gave feline BD at 4 weeks per the instructions (this is not common and the only kittens I've ever seen that had that vaccine were my own, LOL, so that's really not a guideline for buyers but a statement) but Also, my kittens went with a certificate showing negative testing for FELV, FIV, and FIP. Do you do that and have you run those Elisa's on your adults (certain vaccines are known for eliciting false positives among other things so everyone might want to do some research on vaccines if they haven't already)? Have you done the ringworm vax to try and run it out of their system a bit (cats are carriers and Persians tend to be big ones)? The vaccine will usually break them out and a lot will still break anyways at some point but it can be a little less' that way sometimes. There are tons of reports on here about kittens and ringworm from people who didn't realize they are such strong carriers and just how likely it is, so anything we can do to lessen that and especially educate people on that little fact (though they should find that out while researching) is a good thing, LOL. Also, my kittens were actually held from 10 to 16 weeks depending on the kitten which is actually the way it IS suggested to be done as SO much can go wrong with kittens within those first few months. If you feel it necessary to send them home with kitten milk it's probably WAY to early. I would also suggest typing up some sort of individual form(which clearly identifies each kitten) to have your vet fill out or check off (basics like eyes, ears, nose, throat, teeth or bite since their prone to wry mouth, skin, coat, ect.) and sign and also have the customer sign somewhere on the paperwork they received a copy. This can head off a lot of issues and helps facilitate that everyone knows what's going on and a better sort of proof' of condition at time of sale. A breeding program (and our paperwork) is always a work in progress :-). Good luck. *just my opinions*
Devilsadvocate4education*just My Opinions*
Las Vegas,Nevada,
U.S.A.
Comments and general suggestions
#6Consumer Comment
Fri, April 10, 2009
Um, maybe you both should just say I'm very sorry, learn some valuable lessons and move on.
If you intend to hold someone else responsible for death or illness make sure you have DEFINITIVE results from necropsy and/or health testing and provide them with the actual records. The truth, the description of the kittens illness and death are very vague and could be any number of things. Kittens and cats DO sleep a lot, but NEVER wait until it's an emergency. Most seller's may refuse to do anything based solely on that fact as PROMPT care could have made all the difference sometimes. It is wise to take a new pet to the vet within 24 hours of taking possession and beyond that immediately if you are concerned. Always talk to your breeder though. If they have experience and knowledge they can sometimes have a better idea of what is going on and what to do about it than your vet might (our vet's can't specialize in everything :-). This could have been FIP or an injury (there were small children involved) or defect, or a buyer who assumed the new baby was eating and drinking (it can also go the opposite way and improper hand' feeding can go HORRIBLY wrong) or anything. Without knowing FOR SURE, you really can not hold the other person responsible, though it's always easier to blame the other person and seems to be tenfold and intensified when it comes to our pets . Essentially, without definitive testing results, diagnosis, ect. (and all that ACTUAL paperwork in hand) you can't reasonably expect anything from the seller as they have no way of knowing whether they were involved or what the circumstances were, what the course of events was and what the test results were. Sorry, your word isn't enough. A letter is not enough. It takes PROOF.
It is not common for a seller to pay for shipping for any reason. Not initially, not for return and not for a replacement'. That is usually the buyer's responsibility unless it is specifically included in a written contract (contract usually says seller does not pay shipping any time for any reason). However, $500.00? Average shipping charged to customer is $250 to $350. Go ahead and start flipping through sites of breeder's who ship Even on the high end there's quite a bit of extra money in that estimate, where did it come from? What circumstances would have led to shipping costing $500?
Ummm. What shots did you give a 6 week old kitten? I gave feline BD at 4 weeks per the instructions (this is not common and the only kittens I've ever seen that had that vaccine were my own, LOL, so that's really not a guideline for buyers but a statement) but Also, my kittens went with a certificate showing negative testing for FELV, FIV, and FIP. Do you do that and have you run those Elisa's on your adults (certain vaccines are known for eliciting false positives among other things so everyone might want to do some research on vaccines if they haven't already)? Have you done the ringworm vax to try and run it out of their system a bit (cats are carriers and Persians tend to be big ones)? The vaccine will usually break them out and a lot will still break anyways at some point but it can be a little less' that way sometimes. There are tons of reports on here about kittens and ringworm from people who didn't realize they are such strong carriers and just how likely it is, so anything we can do to lessen that and especially educate people on that little fact (though they should find that out while researching) is a good thing, LOL. Also, my kittens were actually held from 10 to 16 weeks depending on the kitten which is actually the way it IS suggested to be done as SO much can go wrong with kittens within those first few months. If you feel it necessary to send them home with kitten milk it's probably WAY to early. I would also suggest typing up some sort of individual form(which clearly identifies each kitten) to have your vet fill out or check off (basics like eyes, ears, nose, throat, teeth or bite since their prone to wry mouth, skin, coat, ect.) and sign and also have the customer sign somewhere on the paperwork they received a copy. This can head off a lot of issues and helps facilitate that everyone knows what's going on and a better sort of proof' of condition at time of sale. A breeding program (and our paperwork) is always a work in progress :-). Good luck. *just my opinions*
Devilsadvocate4education*just My Opinions*
Las Vegas,Nevada,
U.S.A.
Comments and general suggestions
#6Consumer Comment
Fri, April 10, 2009
Um, maybe you both should just say I'm very sorry, learn some valuable lessons and move on.
If you intend to hold someone else responsible for death or illness make sure you have DEFINITIVE results from necropsy and/or health testing and provide them with the actual records. The truth, the description of the kittens illness and death are very vague and could be any number of things. Kittens and cats DO sleep a lot, but NEVER wait until it's an emergency. Most seller's may refuse to do anything based solely on that fact as PROMPT care could have made all the difference sometimes. It is wise to take a new pet to the vet within 24 hours of taking possession and beyond that immediately if you are concerned. Always talk to your breeder though. If they have experience and knowledge they can sometimes have a better idea of what is going on and what to do about it than your vet might (our vet's can't specialize in everything :-). This could have been FIP or an injury (there were small children involved) or defect, or a buyer who assumed the new baby was eating and drinking (it can also go the opposite way and improper hand' feeding can go HORRIBLY wrong) or anything. Without knowing FOR SURE, you really can not hold the other person responsible, though it's always easier to blame the other person and seems to be tenfold and intensified when it comes to our pets . Essentially, without definitive testing results, diagnosis, ect. (and all that ACTUAL paperwork in hand) you can't reasonably expect anything from the seller as they have no way of knowing whether they were involved or what the circumstances were, what the course of events was and what the test results were. Sorry, your word isn't enough. A letter is not enough. It takes PROOF.
It is not common for a seller to pay for shipping for any reason. Not initially, not for return and not for a replacement'. That is usually the buyer's responsibility unless it is specifically included in a written contract (contract usually says seller does not pay shipping any time for any reason). However, $500.00? Average shipping charged to customer is $250 to $350. Go ahead and start flipping through sites of breeder's who ship Even on the high end there's quite a bit of extra money in that estimate, where did it come from? What circumstances would have led to shipping costing $500?
Ummm. What shots did you give a 6 week old kitten? I gave feline BD at 4 weeks per the instructions (this is not common and the only kittens I've ever seen that had that vaccine were my own, LOL, so that's really not a guideline for buyers but a statement) but Also, my kittens went with a certificate showing negative testing for FELV, FIV, and FIP. Do you do that and have you run those Elisa's on your adults (certain vaccines are known for eliciting false positives among other things so everyone might want to do some research on vaccines if they haven't already)? Have you done the ringworm vax to try and run it out of their system a bit (cats are carriers and Persians tend to be big ones)? The vaccine will usually break them out and a lot will still break anyways at some point but it can be a little less' that way sometimes. There are tons of reports on here about kittens and ringworm from people who didn't realize they are such strong carriers and just how likely it is, so anything we can do to lessen that and especially educate people on that little fact (though they should find that out while researching) is a good thing, LOL. Also, my kittens were actually held from 10 to 16 weeks depending on the kitten which is actually the way it IS suggested to be done as SO much can go wrong with kittens within those first few months. If you feel it necessary to send them home with kitten milk it's probably WAY to early. I would also suggest typing up some sort of individual form(which clearly identifies each kitten) to have your vet fill out or check off (basics like eyes, ears, nose, throat, teeth or bite since their prone to wry mouth, skin, coat, ect.) and sign and also have the customer sign somewhere on the paperwork they received a copy. This can head off a lot of issues and helps facilitate that everyone knows what's going on and a better sort of proof' of condition at time of sale. A breeding program (and our paperwork) is always a work in progress :-). Good luck. *just my opinions*
Devilsadvocate4education*just My Opinions*
Las Vegas,Nevada,
U.S.A.
Comments and general suggestions
#6Consumer Comment
Fri, April 10, 2009
Um, maybe you both should just say I'm very sorry, learn some valuable lessons and move on.
If you intend to hold someone else responsible for death or illness make sure you have DEFINITIVE results from necropsy and/or health testing and provide them with the actual records. The truth, the description of the kittens illness and death are very vague and could be any number of things. Kittens and cats DO sleep a lot, but NEVER wait until it's an emergency. Most seller's may refuse to do anything based solely on that fact as PROMPT care could have made all the difference sometimes. It is wise to take a new pet to the vet within 24 hours of taking possession and beyond that immediately if you are concerned. Always talk to your breeder though. If they have experience and knowledge they can sometimes have a better idea of what is going on and what to do about it than your vet might (our vet's can't specialize in everything :-). This could have been FIP or an injury (there were small children involved) or defect, or a buyer who assumed the new baby was eating and drinking (it can also go the opposite way and improper hand' feeding can go HORRIBLY wrong) or anything. Without knowing FOR SURE, you really can not hold the other person responsible, though it's always easier to blame the other person and seems to be tenfold and intensified when it comes to our pets . Essentially, without definitive testing results, diagnosis, ect. (and all that ACTUAL paperwork in hand) you can't reasonably expect anything from the seller as they have no way of knowing whether they were involved or what the circumstances were, what the course of events was and what the test results were. Sorry, your word isn't enough. A letter is not enough. It takes PROOF.
It is not common for a seller to pay for shipping for any reason. Not initially, not for return and not for a replacement'. That is usually the buyer's responsibility unless it is specifically included in a written contract (contract usually says seller does not pay shipping any time for any reason). However, $500.00? Average shipping charged to customer is $250 to $350. Go ahead and start flipping through sites of breeder's who ship Even on the high end there's quite a bit of extra money in that estimate, where did it come from? What circumstances would have led to shipping costing $500?
Ummm. What shots did you give a 6 week old kitten? I gave feline BD at 4 weeks per the instructions (this is not common and the only kittens I've ever seen that had that vaccine were my own, LOL, so that's really not a guideline for buyers but a statement) but Also, my kittens went with a certificate showing negative testing for FELV, FIV, and FIP. Do you do that and have you run those Elisa's on your adults (certain vaccines are known for eliciting false positives among other things so everyone might want to do some research on vaccines if they haven't already)? Have you done the ringworm vax to try and run it out of their system a bit (cats are carriers and Persians tend to be big ones)? The vaccine will usually break them out and a lot will still break anyways at some point but it can be a little less' that way sometimes. There are tons of reports on here about kittens and ringworm from people who didn't realize they are such strong carriers and just how likely it is, so anything we can do to lessen that and especially educate people on that little fact (though they should find that out while researching) is a good thing, LOL. Also, my kittens were actually held from 10 to 16 weeks depending on the kitten which is actually the way it IS suggested to be done as SO much can go wrong with kittens within those first few months. If you feel it necessary to send them home with kitten milk it's probably WAY to early. I would also suggest typing up some sort of individual form(which clearly identifies each kitten) to have your vet fill out or check off (basics like eyes, ears, nose, throat, teeth or bite since their prone to wry mouth, skin, coat, ect.) and sign and also have the customer sign somewhere on the paperwork they received a copy. This can head off a lot of issues and helps facilitate that everyone knows what's going on and a better sort of proof' of condition at time of sale. A breeding program (and our paperwork) is always a work in progress :-). Good luck. *just my opinions*
Teresa Semeling
Payette,Idaho,
U.S.A.
TERESA SEMELING - PERSIAN CATTERY
#6REBUTTAL Owner of company
Fri, April 10, 2009
Well Justen filed her comments and feelings and thats fine, but I feel that the truth needs to be said..
Justen started off saying that I took the kitten to the vet at 5 weeks of age for check up and shots, I have never taken a kitten to a vet before the age of 6 weeks...This Kitten was born on 8-15-2008...She was playful, loving, and a very happy kitten..She was taken to the vet for her 1st shots, vet check and deworming on 9-26-2008 at 3pm and that puts the kitten at 6 weeks of age...She had perfect heart rate, temp,great color in her eyes and mouth. I have the vet report if anyone would like to see it...At that time Justen had made a deposit on the kitten for 175.00, I kepted Justen informed and even sent her pictures several times on her kitten, answered all her questions the same day they were received. My family and I were planning a trip to Ridgecrest California Oct 1st there was a chance we were relocating and went to check out the area, I told Justen we could bring the kitten that far and we could meet up, she was also told she could pay the balance before we left or she could pay when she picked up the kitten..That worked out fine for Justen, the kitten was 7 weeks old when Justen and I met. It was a very cold and windy night at 8pm we met in front of a McDonalds she brought with her, 2 young daughters that stood out in the very cold and windy weather with the kitten.
I mentioned to them it was cold out there for the kitten and they should take her to the car, but they did not listen they stood there for 30 minutes while Justen and I filled out the papers, I gave justen some dry food, wet food, and a can of kitten milk.
It was 36 hours later Justen called and was saying the kitten was sleeping alot, I told Justen that with kittens they do sleep alot for there growth but she may sleep alot also do to the long drive we had from Idaho to California and after Justen picking her up she again had a couple hour drive..But I told Justen she needs to make sure and wake her up once and awhile so she can eat and drink some milk or water, because you do not want her to get dehydrated.
24 hours from then I received an email from Justen that she signed the kitten over to the vet, I do have the report from her vet and it shows that Justen took the kitten to the vet and signed her over before anything was even done on her....It also shows the kitten was dehydrated, & diarrhia,...With a young kitten like that they can get dehydrated and sick and very weak just within a couple of hours...Once a kitten leaves our hands we have no idea what happens to our little ones but hope they have gone to a great home..In this case I did make a mistake putting our young baby in a home with someone who knows nothing about how to care for a Persian Kitten..
In Justen comments she states the vet says we were at fault and the kitten was sick before Justen picking her up. Again I have the vet records and there is not one mention of this Kitten being sick longer than a couple days of being at Justens home...I have never had this happen to any of my babies and now since this has all happened none of my babies leaves my home before 8 weeks of age..
As to me giving her a promise on another kitten from that litter...Well there was never a promise. I told Justen that things were in the air and there was a chance we would be moving back to California I told her I would know for sure in a couple of days and if we did we would be more than happy to replace her kitten with one of her sisters....24 hours later I received an email from her letting me know that they would consider that...
4 days later we got the word that we would not be moving to California, I emailed Justen right away to inform her of this and told her I would look into flying the kitten to her, but was not sure if I could afford to do this....I called several airlines and it was going to cost with the airline ticket, vet certificate, crate, blanket, food/water in the amount of 500.00 I told Justen I was very sorry but I could not afford to spend that kind of money shipping this kitten to her...
Justen came back stating she would pay 150.00 of that cost, I told her I could not afford that amount either.....
She got very upset and started calling me and my cattery names, being very rude in her comments, a few days later she came back with another email stating she purchased a kitten for 50.00 and wanted me to refund that amount...
I was down with the stomach flu for several days when I finally received that email and I was getting ready to go back and let her know I would be more than happy to refund her the 50.00. She placed this report on ripoff and don won and a couple other places...I nicely asked her to remove these false reports, and her reply was nasty, threats and told me she would only remove them when I paid her the money..Several times a day I am getting threating and Harassing emails from Justen...I called the Police and they informed me I needed to open a case on her, so I did, they also informed me not to refund any money to her because with what she has been doing she would not stop even after getting her refund...
And as to this day she still is going on with her lies, and threats, and I still have to keep calling the police on her....
So to inform everyone I have (1) CFA Shell Tortishell Persian Female (1) CFA Brown Patched Tabby Persian Female (1) CFA Solid Blue Persian Male and they are my babies, my family, I would be lost without them....They are always current on there shots, they are never kenneled, my cats and babies have full run of my home, they have the best temperments around, my babies are very loved, and very spoiled..... attached is a letter from just one of the couples we have sold one of our persian kittens to....
To Potential Buyers:
I have had the privledge of purchasing a pet from Teresa Semeling and her family. I hope this letter will provide you with insight on what a wonderful experience this has been. About 6 months ago, we bought a female persian kitten from Teresa. I have had either a dog or cat as a pet my entire life, so buying an animal was not a new experience for me. We knew immediately upon entering Teresa's home and meeting her family that we would purchase a kitten. Their home is lovely, and their pets are raised as members of her family, with free run of the house. They have beautiful play gyms and soft sleeping spots. They have the cleanest and neatest home I've ever seen! How Teresa manages this with pets and kids is a mystery. I want her secret! I am telling you, these are lucky animals!!! You could tell right away that her kittens were well-cared for and well-loved, because they adored being held and snuggled. The adult cats are also ultra-interactive and beautiful. The kittens are used to being around dogs and children, and are the calmest little things.
We named the kitten we purchased Audrey. From the moment we got her home, she has been the best little girl. She had no issues adjusting, because being so well loved, she just expected that we would continue with more of the same. Our vet made it a point to tell us what a absolutely perfectly healthy kitten we had purchased. He said we were very lucky buyers, because this is not always the case. I wasn't surprised at all, considering where she had come from. Audrey never, ever made even one mistake with the litter box, and is fine with
whereever we decide to move it. She is a lap kitten, and loves interacting with every member of my family, kid's and our older cat included.
Purchasing a kitten, from Teresa will be one of the best decisions you ever make. Audrey brings so much happiness to our lives every day, and I am completely convinced it is because of how she was raised. A pet raised in a healthy and loving enviornment makes for a healthy, well-adjusted, and loving addition to a family. Thank you Teresa for the wonderful work
you do in producing such quality pets.
With high regard, Leck Read, M.D., Dawn, Grant,
and Olivia Read