Complaint Review: The Auditors' Report Inc.

Hello again everyone!

I think this website provides a great public service. It's an effective forum to get the word out, both sides can be heard equally, and then you can be the judge! And it's kinda fun!

I have a few comments that I would like to direct at Ms. van der Merwe, to begin

1. Don't make snap judgements of a person's character before getting to know them
2. Don't pressure people into contracts right away
3. Don't be so d**n up-tight, try be a little more flexible.
4. I was looking for a deal, not a RIP OFF (ironic we are here on the "rip off" report)
5. Making cracks about someone who doesn't have much money isn't very classy

And now for everyone:

How I met Ms. van der Merwe

She was recommended to me by Sohaib (a fellow I met on Elance in January 2012) - and that is why I contacted her. I have an account at Elance and Odesk and have used, and continue to use, both of them.

I will respond to her Update #2 first (my comments in BOLD)

Lori van der Merwe writes:
Mr. Jones (who can't honor a simple business agreement) [I terminated the agreement and had all intention of paying her a generous $200 - $300 for the costs that were incurred in exchange for the data that was collected; that is honouring the agreement. Ms. van der Merwe, on the other hand, in haste and spite, deleted the all data, in less 24 hours of my notice of termination. Sabotaging the work was not part of the agreement and left me no choice but to walk away] obviously has no clue what he is talking about or maybe he has selective memory! He was well aware that my team would be working via Elance on his project. [This was nowhere in the agreement and Ms. van der Merwe never indicated to me that she wouldn't be the one doing the work herself. I expected her to be working on it, and perhaps some people local to South Africa. Regardless, of where, it's matter of principal. I am not looking for someone to help with the hiring of other data entry specialists so they can profit from their work. I do not need to pay for someone to post a job on Elance - I can do it myself]  Also, he slanders and calls people names!  [I'm sorry but are we in grade school? Calling people names? Did you really write that?]

Ms. van der Merwe writes:
"if Mr. Jones had access to these working sites (obviously not since you have to pay upfront!) .." is (1) rude and (2) completely wrong. I do pay people for their work - please see a receipt I have attached for everyone's reference evidencing payments I made to Sohaib. This payment was made on August 3, 2012 - certainly could have also made a payment to Ms. van der Merwe.

Ms. van der Merwe writes:
"...why did he sign the agreement with the stipulated amount and agree to the clause of paying upfront? ..."

It's a good question - I REALLY don't even know why I entertained the thought of hiring you. I'm pretty sure I explicitly vocalized my indecision to you over Skype, if not was not obvious by reading our Skype conversations which spanned a total of ... 3 days? (please see my commentary on that transcript below).

In a nutshell...

Ms. van der Merwe's rates were simply too high - and so I let her know that, as early as I realized that. I let her know as soon as I possibly could, and terminated the contract accordingly. Isn't that the right thing to do? The Agreement had a termination clause in it (article 5), as follows:

Termination Clause

5. TERM/TERMINATION. Either party upon 5 days written notice to the other party may terminate this agreement. Provided, however, that each party may terminate the Agreement immediately without prior warning in the event of a breach of this Agreement by the other party. Upon Termination, Admin Support Pro Solutions shall invoice The Client and payment will be expected in full, immediately upon receipt of invoice.

Sabotage the work performed

Not even 24hrs after giving notice, she deleted all of her 1-days work (~100 records) and never invoiced me. What was I supposed to do at that point?


Background

I have (highly competent) people working (very happily) for approximately $200 - $300 a month in the Philippines.

I have paid Sohaib (Pakistan) a total of $1,254 since January 2012 - he is averaging $156.75 per
month. Minimum wage in Pakistan is ~ 8,000 Pakistan Rupees which is $82 CAD - I've almost doubled that.

Furthermore, there is NO CONTRACT between us GENTLEMEN. I'm not constantly monitoring him, and he is happy and enjoys his work. What's more, I have taken a lot of my own personal time to educate him about aspects of the Canadian Business environment, which will undoubtedly help him in his future career endeavours.


My response to the Skype Conversation in her Original Complaint #1 (my comments in BOLD)
Unfortunately, I don't have access to the entire transcript - but you can see how she paraphrased her responses and *attempted* (but failed at one line) to exclude her last name "van der Merwe" to protect her own identity while not hesitating to save mine - so I made sure to include her's here.

[2012/07/14 05:53:24 PM] Ben Jones: Hi Lori, i got your message I dont have
a scanner handy so it is difficult to sign and return that agreement
[2012/07/14 05:53:45PM] Ben Jones: not sure the point either
[2012/07/14 05:53:58 PM] Ben Jones: difficult to enforce, just have my work i will pay you
[2012/07/14 05:54:59 PM] Ben Jones: however, i am having second thoughts about the whole thing because at that rate i could probably employ someone in Vancouer
[2012/07/14 05:55:14 PM] Ben Jones: reason i am emplopying people overseas is to make it affordable
[2012/07/14 05:55:23 PM] Ben Jones: i pay people in the phillipines $20 per day"

I replied that he should go ahead and use the people in the Philippines to do his work
and that was that.

Why dont you include your reply as per the transcript?

On the 26th of July 2012, Ben, contacted me again, saying that this time he could afford
to pay for the team to work on his project, this is the original Skype chat:

[2012/07/26 01:07:23 PM] Ben Jones: hey
[2012/07/26 01:07:29 PM] Ben Jones: OK I am ready for your help now
[2012/07/26 01:07:33 PM] Ben Jones: I'll sign that agreement
[2012/07/26 01:07:36 PM] Ben Jones: Please contact me tmrw
[2012/07/26 01:08:00 PM] Ben Jones: I really need to get going on this, some company has popped up as a competitor and it's getting quite serious
[2012/07/26 01:08:11 PM] Ben Jones: please email me at XXX@theauditorsreport.com

If anyone would like to contact me, please do! I would be happy to discuss our business, your business, or if necessary, this extremely petty matter with you. My email is ben@theauditorsreport.com  Thank you.

[2012/07/26 01:08:12 PM] Ben Jones: thanks

This time he signed the agreement. Once more I assembled the team, got them briefed and ready to start, a day later Ben emails me to say that the total hours for the job was 150 and that he could only afford about a $1000CAD. 

Here is the email Ms. van der Merwe is making reference to.
I sent this email on July 27, 2012 at 11:11 PM

$6 CAD x 8 people x 10hr a day = $240 a day. At that rate, I will
not be able to afford more than 4 days (~ $1,000 in total) and that said,
I would have to make 2 payments about 2 weeks apart - if that is OK?
Otherwise, we will have to space it out somehow... please let me know.
I just reviewed the contract and see 40hours a week and $6 per hour, so
please let me know. Perhaps we can talk on Skype. I think we are looking
at a total of 100 - 150 human hours for the job to get done, and so if 8
people go at it for 4-5 days, then that would be great!

Reading this again reminds me of how extremely uncomfortable I felt engaging in this ...

... 4-DAY ... data entry contract worth $1,000 CAD

In retrospect, admittedly, what I really should have said at this point, which I didnt realize, until a whole 1 DAY LATER was lets stop now, its WAY MORE THAN Im paying others".

However, unfortunately, I didnt say that until, 1 DAY LATER Sometimes people make mistakes! I needed a whole 1 more day deliberate over this adverse agreement I somehow backed myself into. 

I Skyped him, this is the original message:
[2012/07/28 01:34:05 PM] Lori van der Merwe: Hi Ben, when are you free to talk?
[2012/07/28 01:35:33 PM | Edited 01:58:46 PM] Lori van der Merwe: Because of the budget, I
have decided to change it to a max of 150 hrs @ $6/hr
[2012/07/28 01:36:09 PM] Lori van der Merwe: that will be $900 CAD in total
[2012/07/28 01:38:18 PM] Lori van der Merwe: I am awarding the project through Elance because it is too costly to pay the VA's directly into their bank accounts
[2012/07/28 01:39:35 PM | Edited 01:59:35 PM] Lori van der Merwe: This means that you will need to make two payments of $450 CAD as per these dates below:
[2012/07/28 01:40:56 PM | Edited 01:45:48 PM] Lori van der Merwe: on 31/07/2012 &
07/08/2012 [2012/07/28 01:42:13 PM] Lori van der Merwe: Let me knw ASAP so I can give the guys the go ahead.

His response was, original message from Skype:

[2012/07/28 08:00:38 PM] Ben Jones: wow, amazing. I am 10000% on board

$100 off the $1,000 quote I think to myself, maybe she isnt so greedy after all

2012/07/28 08:00:41 PM] Ben Jones: you rock
[2012/07/28 08:06:42 PM] Ben Jones: enjoy your dinner, hopeully we can talk this afternoon, thank you SO much for your help/accommodation - I have no problem paying you more in future too
[2012/07/28 08:06:52 PM] Lori van der Merwe: Np
[2012/07/28 08:06:59 PM] Ben Jones: like a couple hundred here and there as bonus/tip - really awesome stuff

Everyone, please keep in mind, I have other people I am currently employing for anywhere between $150 to $250 PER MONTH.

So I went back to the team and told them that not all of them could work on the project, disappointing them once more.

Disappointing them once more? What did you promise 8 people? Weeks and weeks of work? Did we ever talk about that? I hadn't even given you an estimate of the total work required until my email to you on July 27, 2012 at 11:11 PM saying that I figured it would take 150 hours. Your initial contract sent on July 26th assumed 40hours of work per week for 3 months. So you had had to go back to your team (Elance) and tell them that YOU made a mistake. I'm sorry?

I hired two of my team members to work on this project via Elance because it costs less to pay them through Elance. We started work on Sunday, 29 July 2012, we found errors on the database and other issues that we brought to Ben's attention and as far as we knew Ben was thrilled to have us do the work so efficiently. Wrong!

Ben was busy looking for people who were willing to do the work for less!

Ms. van der Merwe is very mistaken. She has no idea what I'm doing, so I'm not sure how she can you say this? For the record, I have been working with people from all over the world since January 2012 (Pakistan, Philippines, Sri Lanka, Canada, Macedonia, etc.)

I did not get "busy looking for other people who were willing to do the work for less!" - I HAVE ALWAYS BEEN DOING THAT BECAUSE THERE IS ALWAYS WORK TO DO! Do you think that this whole d**n thing started when you showed up? The world doesn't revolve around you, Ms. van der Merwe. Your sense of entitlement to this work after dealing with me, from beginning to end, for no more than a total of 5 days, is troubling.

Today, Ben's first payment of $450CAD was due and this is what he had to say via Skype:

[04:47:31 AM]Ben Jones: Hi Lori we now have Sohaib and 1 person in Philippines working
on this too
[05:48:00 AM] Lori van der Merwe: Ok, do u want me to stop working on this project?
[05:48:41 AM] Lori van der Merwe: Because we have an agreement
[05:48:52 AM] Ben Jones: no, i'd like to get it done, so please continue... and yes the agreement
[05:49:08 AM] Ben Jones: it is a lot more expensive for me
[05:49:17 AM] Lori van der Merwe: I'm sending you the bank details via email
[05:49:20 AM] Ben Jones: and a lot mroe regimented re: payment dates, etc. but it's all good
[05:49:30 AM] Ben Jones: yes , payment is tomorrow right?
[05:49:36 AM] Lori van der Merwe: Yes
[05:49:41 AM] Ben Jones: I'll be sure to pay you EXACTLY when you asked for it.
everything opk?
[05:49:56 AM] Ben Jones: not 1min late
[05:50:18 AM] Lori van der Merwe: If I had not hired my guys to do this work, I could have been more flexible
[05:50:35 AM] Lori van der Merwe: but they have families to support too
[05:50:47 AM] Ben Jones: sorry i'm just busy coordinateing with a few people who are
working for $200 a month, one sec

HINT HINT YOUR RATES ARE REDICULOUS AND IM REALLY BEGINNING TO RE-THINK THIS ADVERSE AGREEMENT.

[05:51:16 AM] Ben Jones: ok sorry i'm back
[05:51:22 AM] Ben Jones: yes you are right, they want money
[05:51:26 AM] Ben Jones: i understand totally
[05:51:45 AM] Lori van der Merwe: Look, Ben, if you are not happy with us doing the work, just say so
[05:51:47 AM] Ben Jones: please continue with L-Z
[05:51:48 AM] Ben Jones: thanks
[05:52:18 AM] Lori van der Merwe: I'm working on 'I' right now
[05:52:34 AM] Lori van der Merwe: going backwards like you said we should
[05:52:52 AM] Ben Jones: I think you are more used to working with companies with larger budgets that are not spending their own money, it's all good we'll ge this done and I will honor the agreement.

Ms. van der Merwe seems to have neglected this section of our chat where I explicitly said it's all good we'll ge this done and I will honor the agreement.

[05:53:22 AM] Ben Jones: ok so what letters can I assign to 2 other people?
[05:53:27 AM] Lori van der Merwe: OK. thank you
[05:53:54 AM] Ben Jones: if we could only do 1/2 of it, that would be best
[05:54:02 AM] Ben Jones: like the $450 and then stop, that would be ideal

It would be helpful if Ms. van der Merwe was capable of being flexible.

[05:54:12 AM] Ben Jones: because it's just very expensive, but whatever
[05:54:23 AM] Lori van der Merwe: Roman is doing Z-M, I'm doing G-L & Karl is doing B-F
[05:54:30 AM] Ben Jones: oh you have 3 people?
[05:54:36 AM] Lori van der Merwe: Yes
[05:54:39 AM] Ben Jones: i thought two
[05:54:48 AM] Ben Jones: ok well i have two more
[05:54:50 AM] Lori van der Merwe: No, me & two others
[05:57:55 AM] Lori van it's all good we'll ge this done and i will honor the agreement.der Merwe: Ok, how do you propose we do that because at the rate we are wrking we will be done before the end of this week?
[05:58:33 AM] Lori van der Merwe: So, how exactly do you propose we work out the $450?
[05:59:46 AM] Lori van der Merwe:  you told me you wanted us to do this job. If I had known you were going to hire other people, I would have refused

They were already working with me for quite some time, as mentioned earlier, I didnt go and hire other people.

Lori van der Merwe:So, how exactly do you propose we work out the $450?
[06:03:45 AM] Ben Jones:I'll just pay you. It's far more than I've given Sohaib, which really sucks
[06:03:55 AM] Ben Jones: but whatevr
[06:04:30 AM] Ben Jones: i dont want you to think i'm dodging this, but wow like data entry job, you're making as much as my lawyer in vancouver, seriously

YUP!

[06:04:33 AM] Lori van der Merwe: Sohaib lives in pakistan, whatever u giving him is a fortune! Look, I'm sending you the banking details, its ur decision...
[06:04:34 AM] Ben Jones: it's a little rediculous
[06:05:03 AM] Ben Jones: i'm going to pay you $450

For some reason, Ms. van der Merwe has left the dates out of this transcript but this is less than 48 hours since I sent her the email indicating that I was not so sure about the whole 'contract' that she so aggressively pushed me to sign. She is far too calculated for me; I prefer to work with people that are more flexible and trusting.

[06:05:13 AM] Ben Jones: as for the other $450 maybe we can hold off on that?

Later on, Ben Skypes me:

15 minutes later, to be exact

[06:20:58 AM] Ben Jones: please stop working on it

At this point I decided. I had my mind up that this contract was no good and not going to work for me. This is July 29th at 6PM.

[06:21:02 AM] Ben Jones: stop everything
[06:24:04 AM] Ben Jones: OK
[06:24:14 AM] Ben Jones: just spoke to the database admin for our company
[06:24:33 AM] Ben Jones: he's got over 30 years of experience in database design and charges $70 per hour
[06:24:41 AM] Ben Jones: anyways, he says there are 463 entries in the db in TOTALK
[06:24:44 AM] Ben Jones: TOTAL
[06:25:02 AM] Ben Jones: Sohaib has done 20 pages per day and there are 20 records per row
[06:25:39 AM] Ben Jones: not all rows are data, so i would estimate you and your "team" (i..e people you have hired on elance that I could have done same) have done
MAX 100 rows
[06:25:50 AM] Ben Jones: that's being generous

At this point, I am attempting to calculate the damage and restore Ms. van der Merwe to her original position. You can see in the email that I sent to her on July 31 at 11am (included in my Rebuttal #1) that I was going to pay her $200 to $300 for the 100 rows of data that took ~1 day. 

I made one bad choice  agreeing to her contract
And then I made a good choice  terminating it right away!

In my opinion, this is all extremely petty and not worth either of our time. This will be my last of my message on here, but I need to get the whole entire story out there - not just Ms. van der Merwe's side.

Ms. van der Merwe deleted all the data that she had entered within 24 hours of my notice of termination. Two wrongs don't make a right. Had she not done that, we could have worked out an amiable solution. Ms. van der Merwe and her team ASSUMED I was not going to pay and in the end, that cost them dearly. It's unfortunate because now I most certainly can't pay her at all.

I pity people with paradigms such as Ms. van der Merwe. The world is not such a cold, untrusting, dog eat dog place. Lead with love and have faith in people. In the words of St. Francis Asissi:

"... may not so much seek to be consoled as to console;
to be understood as to understand;
to be loved as to love.
For it is in giving that we receive;
it is in pardoning that we are pardoned; "

I forgive you. I hope you can forgive me; I'm finished throwing the mud around.

All the best,

Mr. Jones (who can't honor a simple business agreement) obviously has no clue what he is talking about or maybe he has selective memory! He was well aware that my team would be working via Elance on his project. Also, he slanders and calls people names!

I run a business and not a day care or creche! The team I work with live in various parts of the world and since paying them into their bank accounts an be tedious and costly, I 'hire' them via Elance which guarantees that the work gets done and that they get paid...

If Mr. Jones had access to these working sites (obviously not since you have to pay upfront!), why did he sign the agreement with the stipulated amount and agree to the clause of paying upfront? If he was broke, he should have done the work himself...

I'm sure the evidence speaks for itself and yes, I am a maniac for agreeing to work with him after the drama from the first time! ;-) Guess, I like to think that people still have decency, Mr. Jones DOES NOT!

Hello Everyone!

This is the President of The Auditors Report writing. I have read the very emotionally-charged complaint by a woman named Lori form South Africa. As much as I do not like the public exhibition of these affairs, I feel the need to set the record straight. 

I was unfortunately introduced to her through a mutual colleague, Sohaib. Her and I spoke for probably a total of 2-3 hours on Skype (being very generous on the time estimate there), about 3-4 occasions. After engaging her she informed me that she was going to award the contract via Elance. She tried to charge me $1,000 CAD for some simple data entry work. 

I have my own account at Elance, Odesk, and other agencies and am very capable of hiring my own through these systems. I realize there was no value added whatsoever with her extreme premium that she charged and informed her to cease and desist working.

I was completely planning on paying her for the very little work she had done to that point at a very good rate of $0.50 to $1.00, but she DELETED all ~250 records that she had completed.  (see emails of final correspondence below)

All throughout my (albeit very brief) dealings with her, she was extremely focused on (1) the rate she would be charging (2) the 'legally binding' contract. If you ever have the misfortune of working with her, don't rush into any contracts or dealings with this woman.

In the words of Sohaib, whom I continue to have a very strong working relation, "is she mad?"

Here is our last correspondence:
_________________________
Email from Ben on July 31, 2012
TITLE: Payment

""
Hi Lori

I was thinking between $0.50 and $1.00 per row is fair.I asked Sohaib how many he had done, and he indicated about 200 so that would have left about 200.I have someone in the Phillipines who has also done an entire days worth and 100% did the L's. I did about 10 of these also.Now the db administrator has indicated to me about 1hr ago " Last night I looked, it was getting close to 600 rows.  Now, there is 337 " which makes sense, you did about 250 rows.

What happened? Did you delete the rows? That is quite spiteful and really not a good move. I was going to pay you about $200 - $300 for what has been done which is FAR more than a lot of other people have been paid including:
""
... (listed people I am working with and their credentials including MBA, CA, PENG, etc.).

""
My lawyer charged me $1,000 for drafting up two contracts.

Now I'm not sure what to do. I don't understand. Honestly, I think you are quite professional, perhaps more than me, but your attitude is not one that fosters trust. I absolutely regret getting involved with you. As I indicated before, I think you are used to working with companies that have larger budgets. How am I to pay you now after what you have done?

Please advise me as to how I should proceed. I have informed everyone I have worked with about you and your rates from Canada to Pakistan to the Phillipines and they all agree it is ludicrous.

Please leave me alone and do not contact me anymore. I will send you some money for troubling you, despite having received no benefit at all and not to mention been dragged through all this controversy.

Waiting for your reply.
Ben

_________________________
Email from Lori on July 31, 2012
TITLE: Too Little, Too Late

""
Thanks for being so kind but I think you need the money more than I do.

I have worked hard and built relationships with my clients based on mutual trust, respect and understanding. 

A successful business is based on the ability to honor agreements, whether verbally or in writing and not on childish actions.

I'm really sorry to hear about your loss, maybe my team did not appreciate being treated that way!
Maybe you should have asked yourself what you would do if you had trusted someone, only to have that person spit in your face...

Any how, you take care and don't worry, I have too much to do than to bother with bothering you.

Don't cry because it's over. Smile because it happened. - Dr. Seuss

""

And then she proceeded to post this complaint here.

As you can see, I absolutely did try to pay for what had been done, which was really very little and quite expensive. End of story, moving on with things and thankfully not working with this maniac who is going to charge an arm and a leg just going to turn around and hire people on Elance - get real!