TimeshareMLS - TimeshareFSBO ripoff misleading sales tactics and claims of what they can do. useless service Orlando Florida
I'm writing because I have inside information on the workings and sales tactics of an industry that has apparently scammed hundreds of thousands of people across the country. This industry is the Timeshare Resale Industry and after in depth research I am of the conclusion there is no real value in what the various companies in this industry offer to those who purchase the service. However, I am writing in regards to one company, TimeshareMLS.org also known as TimeshareFSBO.com.
Around March of this year 2006 I came across an Ad in the USA Today Newspaper in the classified section. The ad was advertising for Individuals with Telemarketing Sales/Management Experience to open a Call Room representing this company and its service. I am a bit of an Entrepeneur and I'm always looking for a sound business endeavor.
I contacted the company and spoke with the General Manager and was impressed with what he had to say. His sales pitch on opening a room was that this was a service that owners of a certain type of property were very interested in and wanted to hear from anyone marketing this service because it would be of great value to them. Another great selling point was that the sales were low pressure and usually took 3-5 calls before the customer purchased according to the General Manager. Thus allowing the customer to check out the company, talk it over with their spouse or just give them additional time if they needed it to think about the purchase.
After speaking with the GM I decided to let him send me some information on the business and service they offered. The information packet looked great, I checked out the company as best I could and talked to a room owner who was introduced to me as an Ex FBI agent. I couldn't find any bad reports on the company and got a glowing endorsment from the room owner I spoke to.
As it turns out later I was looking for information on the company when I should have been searching for info on a different business name they use. My research should have gone much deeper on investigating the Owner and his parent company. It turns out that this company may change its name or at least ad another DBA name once too many complaints are lodged against it. I admit I could have done a better job in my research.
There was no real upfront investment for me to open up a marketing room other than a lease and furniture and supplies so after a few months I decided to give it a try. All this time I thought I would be marketing a service needed by a certain group of property owners as well as a low pressure sale. This was the impression given to me from the company representaives I had dealing with the whole time.
When it came time to open the room I had the GM, his dad who was a VP with another of the owner's businesses and a Sales Manager from the Corporate office fly up from Florida to Tennessee to set up the phone system and to do 2 days of training. The first day went well but on the second day the trainer went on the phones to show my sales reps how to present the service and make a sale.
During this time I and some of my reps got an indication that this was not going to be a low pressure sales job. The trainer got an elderly lady on the line who may have been foreign as well and the trainer basically "slammed" this women into buying the product. I and my reps were able to listen in on the call. I was not comfortable with this type of sales and neither were my reps. Luckily the women's credit card was declined which was a relief since I thought she was :slammed" however, the trainer did manage to call her back twice and get 2 more credit cards from her which both delined as well.
One of my reps told me she approached the trainer on a break and said she wasn't comfortable with how this was handled and the trainer said she did her job, she pitched the woman and she gave her the card so she didn't feel guilty. This was on the sat. before labor day. The trainers flew home that sunday and I opened for business on the following tuesday.
The first thing I addressed in my sales meeting that tuesday was that we would not make a sale to anyone who did not understand what was going on and we would not lie to make a sale. I told them we had to feel good about what we were doing and no amount of money could make up for being unethical. I had 5 reps and all of them were very releived that they would not be made to do that type of sales.
At this point I would like to add that many of the sales reps in the 9 florida offices make extremely good money doing this as it relates to telemarketing. The best sales person for the company made over $100,000 last year and the avg. rep makes $40,000 in most cases. I do have a sales report that shows sales figures for the company for one week. I did have more reports but at the time I wasn't aware that the company wasn't ethical and I didn't keep those reports.
By the end of the first week of business my room had made no sales and I was getting very concerned abpout how the company operated. My concern was that many of the people who actually would speak with us had been burned by similiar types of companies in the past. Usually they had been burned 2-3 or 4 times. After a week of hearing this time and time again I had a very uneasy feeling in my stomach.
Once that first week ended I knew I had made a bad business choice. I can not represent and put my effort into something I don't believe in and I asked myself if I would feel fine in selling this service to a friend a relative and my answer was no. I knew then that I couldn't keep doing this. However, once Sept 11th arrived I felt extremely guilty that I had hired 5 people who trusted my judgement and I had sold them on the idea that they were representing a good service and could make a good income in doing so. Although I didn't want to make any sales that day I did stay open for the 11th and for a couple of hours on the 12th. During this time though I did a lot of researching on the internet in the office with a friend who I had brung to the office the previous week to help me manage the operation.
It took us a long time on the 11th and the first part of the 12th but we were able to track down info on the main corporate name and found information that sealed my closing the room immediately. After discussing this with my friend/manager we came up with how to break the news to the reps. About 2 hours into the shift we pulled them off the phones and explained to them that we no longer felt comfortable in representing the company or its service and we gave them what info we had discovered. I thanked them for their efforts and told them I would pay them for the rest of the week since this was no fault of theirs. I do take comfort that we made no sales during the week we were open.
As far as the company knew we were still open for the rest of the week. They were very concerned about no sales being made. I kept putting them off as to the fact I had shut the room down until I decided how to handle this situation. Then on Friday the 15th the GM programmed the phone system so that my reps could listen in to how the florida sales reps were pitching and making sales. I took full advantage of this by taping the pitches and high pressures sales tactics the reps were using. I was given the ability to monitor the 4 best sales people in the company and I have taped about 3 hours of their pitches and pressure tactics with their customers.
This includes flat out lying about what the company can do. Basically, after hearing the 4 reps that night I know then beyond a shadow of a doubt that the only way this service can be sold is to pressure the client, and to make false claims and statments. Today, Sept. 18th. I called the GM of the company and told him I had some questions regarding the conversations and if it was ethical and needless to say he opened up and gave me the low down on how to sell this service and admitted that their reps do lie to make a sale and many times they do go into a "Gray Area" when talking to cusotmers. He also gave many other comments that puts the company in a bad light and he even said the industry as a whole is not a good one. I have this on tape as well.
For now he still thinks my office is open although I'm at the point were I must let him know that I am ethical in my business practices and could not in good faith sell their service. However, I can not just walk away, knowing what I know and one way or another some light must be shed on this more than already is.
I do have recordings of the reps and the GM which are very incremidating to the company and I have the training manuals supplied by the company too. I may make one more call tomorrow before I let them know I'm closed down. I would like to get the Verification and Customer Service Supervisor on the line and have him reiterate some info he had told me last week which was actually my first sign of the true nature of the company. The day I opened I spoke to him and he said that when my reps upset customers called in and the reps didn't want to talk to them to give his dept. the customer's phone # and they would handle the call. He was pretty much saying that we will get angry customers because the service isn't a good one. He said this was important to give them the #'s since his customer service agents were trained to make sure the new customer's didn't cancel. He said they were very good and once a customer spoke to them they seldom canceled because the used every "trick" in the book to make sure they didn't.
So in short, I'm at fault for falling for the slick sales presentation on opening a room with this company and literally thousands of people have been conned into purchasing this service valuless product. I do think the company is just legal enough to get past the the state attorney general's offices and the fcc but more publicity needs to be given to this industry.
I know this company has sold at least 13,000 people on this service since about 1997. That's just the # I have been able to run down I'm sure there's more. The average price for the service is anywhere from $399 to $1,000 depending on what they think they can get the person for. However, it is the exact same service no matter the price.
Florida state law actually states it is illegal to charge an upfront fee for saling a timeshare. This company stays just legal enough but actually listing the timeshares on the websites and I'm sure they have sold a few too. However, a check of another website the company has, TimesharereslaesUSA.com shows over 10,000 listins alone so even a few sales is a small percentage of the overall volume.
Beware of this and any resale company, they promise the world and deliver hot air.
GW
lewisburg, Tennessee
U.S.A.
9 Updates & Rebuttals
Gary
Lewisburg,Tennessee,
U.S.A.
imesharemls
#10Author of original report
Thu, July 26, 2007
I admit, as the above post by The Timeshare MLS Staff indicates I am not, nor have I claimed to be a consumer advocate. I am however someone who believes the advance fee timeshare resale industry has no merit what so ever. From my experience and the additional information I have learned since then I know there is no question of this.
As a result I am doing my best to inform and educate timeshare owners. This is getting much easier since many timeshare owners have already been burned 1, 2,3 times or more by the many companies selling these resale packages. They may not be posting their experiences on forums but that doesn't mean it hasn't happend.
As far as a lack of online complaints is concerned, few people who have actually been burned by any type of company will post their experiences online. There are many reasons for this, some are embarrassed, some haven't thought about it, some fell there's no use to, some go straight to the state or federal agencies, some chalk it up to a bad choice and let it go or any number of other reasons.
There are still yet others who have been signed up with the company for 5,6, 7 months with no inquiries about their unit and are still holding out hope that by some miracle they will get lucky, very very lucky. These people still realize they've made a bad choice going through an advance fee resale company.
The Timeshare MLS Staff states " we protect our customers with a recorded verification that describes exactly what our program entails". A lot of people already realize and for those that don't "Verification" is for the company's protection and not the clients. When Ms. Smith calls back and says Agent Tony said my unit would definitely sell in 90 days I want my money back.
Well, the verification dept. is able to play back the tape for Ms. Smith and yes, it states that if the property isn't sold in 90 days we will continue to advertise your property at the company's expense. That is you agreeing to this on the tape isn't it? Yes Ms. Smith replies.
Ok, you will not receive a refund, however, you can take comfort in knowing that the $1000 you paid for our service and hasn't brought you any inqueries to date still enables your unit to be advertised on our site, god luck. Now the conversation may not go exactly like that but you get the point--verification equals protection for the company. Plus, verification doesn't record the sales pitch the resale agent has gone through with the customer and all the promises or misleading information they have used to get the client to verification.
I urge anyone reading this not to take my word for all I written about this company and this industry. I do stand 100% behind what I have written though. I just suggest call the Florida Attorney General's Office and ask them about this company or principals of it.
If anyone wants to contact me personally just let me know and I'll be more than happy to oblige you.
I've gotta go now, I'd say it's a safe bet the fine folks at Timeshare MLS have placed their above post on the other sites they eluded to so I've got anwer them on those as well.
Legal
Orlando,Florida,
U.S.A.
Address of Libel
#10REBUTTAL Owner of company
Thu, July 26, 2007
Dear Customers,
It has recently come to our attention that a former business partner is reporting libel about our company and our sales methods. We would like to formally advice you that we believe Gary from Gray, Tennessee, intention is to damage our companies reputation. His stories are entirely one sided and slanted. If you have found this post then you have also found Gary's' other posts, and you might have noticed that he is 95% of any complaints. Gary was not a customer of ours nor does he realize the dedication we have to our customers.
Gary is upset of his misfortune and blames our company. We are working with a very experienced law firm that specializes in internet defamation, libel, and extortion. We have been advised we have a strong case. We understand that in order to attract timeshare buyers and renters to our inventory we must protect our reputation. We have over 1,100 networked brokers that have access to our inventory and that number grows every week. We have posted a discredit of Gary to some of the reports, and, as you will see, he is no consumer advocate. Wherever Gary has posted on the internet we have followed and have noticed he is one of very few posting a negative experience in regards to our company. To date we have not lost the trust of one advertising and marketing agreement with our clients, and we plan to keep it that way. As you are aware, we protect our customers with a recorded verification that describes exactly what our program entails. If you have any questions in regards to the listed reports please contact our Customer Service department:
TimeshareMLS.org
Customer Service Department
321-251-4607 Option 1
M-T 10-6 EST
F 9-5 EST
Thank you,
The Timeshare MLS Staff
Gary
Lewisburg,Tennessee,
U.S.A.
Addressing Timesharemls's discredit post of me
#10Author of original report
Wed, July 18, 2007
To address the "Discredit" of me from the owner of Timesharemls.org I submit the following:
I freely admit I was a sales manager for Vacation Break USA and APEX Marketing which were both eventually purchased by Fairfield Resorts which is now owned by Wyndham.
We did sell vacation packages to generate tours to timeshares. I have never had a problem per se with timeshares since there are very good ones out there and many timeshare owners are happy with their units. My problem is with the upfront fee resale companies of the world.
At Vacation Break we sold packages mostly in the $399 range but if a customer wanted a carnival cruise it would be $899.
At APEX and Fairfield we sold the 3 day 2 night get aways for a price of around $99 to $129.
As for Caribe Marketing I never worked with that organization.
The reason his clients have never paid any money to me or as he put it "refused to pay me money" is because as I've mentioned before I never submitted any sales to "His" company. didn't have the stomach to rip these people off for a worthless up front fee timeshare resale package.
Back in my younger days I also managed a Burger King Restaurant which he didn't mention. I'm sure my restaurant had a complaint during the 4 years I was there but when my customers paid their money for a whopper fries and coke, well, that's exactly what they got!
Anything else anyone wants to know about me please ask and I'll be happy to answer.
Howard, I guess you must be losing some sales to get a feed back from you or whatever lacky you had post this. Thanks for that feedback. It's nice to know I am making a difference.
Gary
Lewisburg,Tennessee,
U.S.A.
Addressing Timesharemls's discredit post of me
#10Author of original report
Wed, July 18, 2007
To address the "Discredit" of me from the owner of Timesharemls.org I submit the following:
I freely admit I was a sales manager for Vacation Break USA and APEX Marketing which were both eventually purchased by Fairfield Resorts which is now owned by Wyndham.
We did sell vacation packages to generate tours to timeshares. I have never had a problem per se with timeshares since there are very good ones out there and many timeshare owners are happy with their units. My problem is with the upfront fee resale companies of the world.
At Vacation Break we sold packages mostly in the $399 range but if a customer wanted a carnival cruise it would be $899.
At APEX and Fairfield we sold the 3 day 2 night get aways for a price of around $99 to $129.
As for Caribe Marketing I never worked with that organization.
The reason his clients have never paid any money to me or as he put it "refused to pay me money" is because as I've mentioned before I never submitted any sales to "His" company. didn't have the stomach to rip these people off for a worthless up front fee timeshare resale package.
Back in my younger days I also managed a Burger King Restaurant which he didn't mention. I'm sure my restaurant had a complaint during the 4 years I was there but when my customers paid their money for a whopper fries and coke, well, that's exactly what they got!
Anything else anyone wants to know about me please ask and I'll be happy to answer.
Howard, I guess you must be losing some sales to get a feed back from you or whatever lacky you had post this. Thanks for that feedback. It's nice to know I am making a difference.
Gary
Lewisburg,Tennessee,
U.S.A.
Addressing Timesharemls's discredit post of me
#10Author of original report
Wed, July 18, 2007
To address the "Discredit" of me from the owner of Timesharemls.org I submit the following:
I freely admit I was a sales manager for Vacation Break USA and APEX Marketing which were both eventually purchased by Fairfield Resorts which is now owned by Wyndham.
We did sell vacation packages to generate tours to timeshares. I have never had a problem per se with timeshares since there are very good ones out there and many timeshare owners are happy with their units. My problem is with the upfront fee resale companies of the world.
At Vacation Break we sold packages mostly in the $399 range but if a customer wanted a carnival cruise it would be $899.
At APEX and Fairfield we sold the 3 day 2 night get aways for a price of around $99 to $129.
As for Caribe Marketing I never worked with that organization.
The reason his clients have never paid any money to me or as he put it "refused to pay me money" is because as I've mentioned before I never submitted any sales to "His" company. didn't have the stomach to rip these people off for a worthless up front fee timeshare resale package.
Back in my younger days I also managed a Burger King Restaurant which he didn't mention. I'm sure my restaurant had a complaint during the 4 years I was there but when my customers paid their money for a whopper fries and coke, well, that's exactly what they got!
Anything else anyone wants to know about me please ask and I'll be happy to answer.
Howard, I guess you must be losing some sales to get a feed back from you or whatever lacky you had post this. Thanks for that feedback. It's nice to know I am making a difference.
Gary
Lewisburg,Tennessee,
U.S.A.
Addressing Timesharemls's discredit post of me
#10Author of original report
Wed, July 18, 2007
To address the "Discredit" of me from the owner of Timesharemls.org I submit the following:
I freely admit I was a sales manager for Vacation Break USA and APEX Marketing which were both eventually purchased by Fairfield Resorts which is now owned by Wyndham.
We did sell vacation packages to generate tours to timeshares. I have never had a problem per se with timeshares since there are very good ones out there and many timeshare owners are happy with their units. My problem is with the upfront fee resale companies of the world.
At Vacation Break we sold packages mostly in the $399 range but if a customer wanted a carnival cruise it would be $899.
At APEX and Fairfield we sold the 3 day 2 night get aways for a price of around $99 to $129.
As for Caribe Marketing I never worked with that organization.
The reason his clients have never paid any money to me or as he put it "refused to pay me money" is because as I've mentioned before I never submitted any sales to "His" company. didn't have the stomach to rip these people off for a worthless up front fee timeshare resale package.
Back in my younger days I also managed a Burger King Restaurant which he didn't mention. I'm sure my restaurant had a complaint during the 4 years I was there but when my customers paid their money for a whopper fries and coke, well, that's exactly what they got!
Anything else anyone wants to know about me please ask and I'll be happy to answer.
Howard, I guess you must be losing some sales to get a feed back from you or whatever lacky you had post this. Thanks for that feedback. It's nice to know I am making a difference.
Legal
Orlando,Florida,
U.S.A.
Gary Manning TN Discredit
#10REBUTTAL Owner of company
Tue, July 17, 2007
PLEASE BE ADVISED.
Gary is utilizing consumer reports and timeshare industry forums to share the slanted view of his experience with my clients. To this date my clients have refused to pay any money to Gary and they have not posted a single reply to his posts. Unfortunately he has gone too far with his slander and libel. To discredit Gary a history of his employment and career involvement is due. Gary Manning managed Vacation Break USA a vacation package company. He sold vacation packages up to $899 in up front fees. It was alleged that the travel and timeshare marketer deceived consumers into thinking they won "free" vacations that ultimately cost them hundreds of dollars. A link to the report below. Gary also worked for APEX Marketing who had multiple investigations from multiple states Attorney Generals and an uproar of consumer complaints. Another link below shows the numerous consumer complaints. These are only some of Gary Manning's involvements and more recently he has been involved with Caribe Marketing, who is also under scrutiny. See below.
Please be advised that Gary's comments are only a tactic of libel. He has only recently given the appearance of being generally concerned with the upfront fee timeshare resale market. My clients are in preparation of filing suit against Gary for his slander and libel. Continued publication of his existing or responding posts might involve a cease and desist order to your internet service or hosting provider. This discredit of Gary Manning is being submitted to all websites and forums that Gary is utilizing. All information is deemed to be true and has been collected by public sources.
PLEASE BE ADVISED.
Gary Manning at Vacation Break USAct.gov/ag/cwp/view.asp?A=1772&Q=282386
Gary Manning at APEX Marketing
http://www.ripoffreport.com/results.asp?q1=ALL&q5=Apex+Marketing&submit2=Search%21&q4=&q6=&q3=&q2=&q7=&searchtype=0
Gary Manning and Caribe Marketing
ripoffreport.com/reports/0/179/ripoff0179345.htm
Legal
Orlando,Florida,
U.S.A.
Gary Manning TN Discredit
#10REBUTTAL Owner of company
Tue, July 17, 2007
PLEASE BE ADVISED.
Gary is utilizing consumer reports and timeshare industry forums to share the slanted view of his experience with my clients. To this date my clients have refused to pay any money to Gary and they have not posted a single reply to his posts. Unfortunately he has gone too far with his slander and libel. To discredit Gary a history of his employment and career involvement is due. Gary Manning managed Vacation Break USA a vacation package company. He sold vacation packages up to $899 in up front fees. It was alleged that the travel and timeshare marketer deceived consumers into thinking they won "free" vacations that ultimately cost them hundreds of dollars. A link to the report below. Gary also worked for APEX Marketing who had multiple investigations from multiple states Attorney Generals and an uproar of consumer complaints. Another link below shows the numerous consumer complaints. These are only some of Gary Manning's involvements and more recently he has been involved with Caribe Marketing, who is also under scrutiny. See below.
Please be advised that Gary's comments are only a tactic of libel. He has only recently given the appearance of being generally concerned with the upfront fee timeshare resale market. My clients are in preparation of filing suit against Gary for his slander and libel. Continued publication of his existing or responding posts might involve a cease and desist order to your internet service or hosting provider. This discredit of Gary Manning is being submitted to all websites and forums that Gary is utilizing. All information is deemed to be true and has been collected by public sources.
PLEASE BE ADVISED.
Gary Manning at Vacation Break USAct.gov/ag/cwp/view.asp?A=1772&Q=282386
Gary Manning at APEX Marketing
http://www.ripoffreport.com/results.asp?q1=ALL&q5=Apex+Marketing&submit2=Search%21&q4=&q6=&q3=&q2=&q7=&searchtype=0
Gary Manning and Caribe Marketing
ripoffreport.com/reports/0/179/ripoff0179345.htm
Legal
Orlando,Florida,
U.S.A.
Gary Manning TN Discredit
#10REBUTTAL Owner of company
Tue, July 17, 2007
PLEASE BE ADVISED.
Gary is utilizing consumer reports and timeshare industry forums to share the slanted view of his experience with my clients. To this date my clients have refused to pay any money to Gary and they have not posted a single reply to his posts. Unfortunately he has gone too far with his slander and libel. To discredit Gary a history of his employment and career involvement is due. Gary Manning managed Vacation Break USA a vacation package company. He sold vacation packages up to $899 in up front fees. It was alleged that the travel and timeshare marketer deceived consumers into thinking they won "free" vacations that ultimately cost them hundreds of dollars. A link to the report below. Gary also worked for APEX Marketing who had multiple investigations from multiple states Attorney Generals and an uproar of consumer complaints. Another link below shows the numerous consumer complaints. These are only some of Gary Manning's involvements and more recently he has been involved with Caribe Marketing, who is also under scrutiny. See below.
Please be advised that Gary's comments are only a tactic of libel. He has only recently given the appearance of being generally concerned with the upfront fee timeshare resale market. My clients are in preparation of filing suit against Gary for his slander and libel. Continued publication of his existing or responding posts might involve a cease and desist order to your internet service or hosting provider. This discredit of Gary Manning is being submitted to all websites and forums that Gary is utilizing. All information is deemed to be true and has been collected by public sources.
PLEASE BE ADVISED.
Gary Manning at Vacation Break USAct.gov/ag/cwp/view.asp?A=1772&Q=282386
Gary Manning at APEX Marketing
http://www.ripoffreport.com/results.asp?q1=ALL&q5=Apex+Marketing&submit2=Search%21&q4=&q6=&q3=&q2=&q7=&searchtype=0
Gary Manning and Caribe Marketing
ripoffreport.com/reports/0/179/ripoff0179345.htm