Complaint Review: Tires Plus

I went to a community college if that is what you mean. I believe experience far out weights book knowledge. Call me crazy don't really care.

Yes I understand profit margins vs profits. All works out to big business getting richer and small business struggling. do you disagree?

Either way here you are still defending big business. I bet you even feel bad for all those poor Oil Corps that are getting sickly rich off these high gas prices while the little guy struggles to get enough gas to go to work to pay for that gas.

h*o hum done with you and your stupidy and defense of big business.

Back to orginal complaint.. Tires Plus took advantage of a working man. They admitted to double charging $89.99 diagnostic. Good bye

I went to a community college if that is what you mean. I believe experience far out weights book knowledge. Call me crazy don't really care.

Yes I understand profit margins vs profits. All works out to big business getting richer and small business struggling. do you disagree?

Either way here you are still defending big business. I bet you even feel bad for all those poor Oil Corps that are getting sickly rich off these high gas prices while the little guy struggles to get enough gas to go to work to pay for that gas.

h*o hum done with you and your stupidy and defense of big business.

Back to orginal complaint.. Tires Plus took advantage of a working man. They admitted to double charging $89.99 diagnostic. Good bye

I went to a community college if that is what you mean. I believe experience far out weights book knowledge. Call me crazy don't really care.

Yes I understand profit margins vs profits. All works out to big business getting richer and small business struggling. do you disagree?

Either way here you are still defending big business. I bet you even feel bad for all those poor Oil Corps that are getting sickly rich off these high gas prices while the little guy struggles to get enough gas to go to work to pay for that gas.

h*o hum done with you and your stupidy and defense of big business.

Back to orginal complaint.. Tires Plus took advantage of a working man. They admitted to double charging $89.99 diagnostic. Good bye

I went to a community college if that is what you mean. I believe experience far out weights book knowledge. Call me crazy don't really care.

Yes I understand profit margins vs profits. All works out to big business getting richer and small business struggling. do you disagree?

Either way here you are still defending big business. I bet you even feel bad for all those poor Oil Corps that are getting sickly rich off these high gas prices while the little guy struggles to get enough gas to go to work to pay for that gas.

h*o hum done with you and your stupidy and defense of big business.

Back to orginal complaint.. Tires Plus took advantage of a working man. They admitted to double charging $89.99 diagnostic. Good bye

Now you have. I would NOT do a tune-up without fixing the carb.

As for parts mark-up...again, the CHEAP stores do NOT give the repair shops ANY discount. They sell to everyone for the same price. The GOOD parts stores sell to shops for jobber pricing. Everyone else pays more.

I have relatives who are medical professionals...Doctors, nurses, EMT's etc. This does NOT make me one. Your analogy is way off.

Restail shops sell the parts for "list" price, not "cost". One part may have a list price that is 2, 3, 4 times the "cost". As I said, doubling the price only gives a 50% gross profit margin. NO SHOP can survive with that margin. The bare minimum is 70%.

Labor pays for labor. Just because the mech gets a percentage of it means nothing. There are other paychecks to be made. The secretary, the accountant, the gophers, the Manager, the owner, etc. Labor pays for labor.

I'll assume you went to a Government school. I can easily assume this since you have no basic understanding about PROFITS, and profit MARGINS. The two are wholly different from each other. EXXON-Mobil had a PROFIT of $36B. Their profit MARGIN was only 9%. That is a very LOW margin. The only people who consider the $36B to be unreasonable, are those who have no concept of the two.

But I will answer yours.

Yes All garages buy at whole sale. I know this to be fact. I think you keep missing the point I grew up in this business. I have a Aunt in Venice with a repair shop. My father, step father, uncles, ex-husband, friends, and brother-n-law i mentioned who has worked in both small garages and dealerships. The dealership he left due to unfair pricing of customers and bad pay of tech. the business made the money.

The ADM of Tires Plus told me himself that the techs do not get the full labor that is charged they get only a small % of that. The owners get the houses, boats, nice cars, vacations,ect. All off the back of the customer that was suckered and the employee that actually did the job.

A reasonable mark up on parts, is a mark up that is consistant across the board. Say a certain % of actual cost of part. Unlike Tires Plus who marks up irregular amounts. Here the only example I can use is the cost of parts at AutoZone as compared to parts paid for at Tires Plus. I will note here that I took the part # from the bill and looked up that cost of part on the AutoZone website.

Dist cap.......@TP=..$29.99-----@AZ=..$......these two parts
Dist rotor.....@TP=..@10.99-----@AZ=..$9.99..came as kit
---Mark Up here $30.00

Spark Plugs...@TP=$11.94-----@AZ=..$11.54
---Mark UP here $ .40

Plug Wires....@TP=$49.99-----@AZ=..$29.99
---Mark Up here $20.00

PCV Valve ....@TP=$ 6.99-----@AZ=..$1.89
---Mark Up here $ 5.10

Do you see a consistance % on parts here? Looks more to me like they figure out how much more they would like to make on the bill and add to the mark up. They figure people will just except what the bill says. It also seems to me that the way the labor is charged is another way to pad the price.

They have to take the plug wires off to change the Dist cap and spark plugs and then the have to replace the wires. So answer me this why did it cost $57.40 for labor to remove and replace the wires. When it also cost $49.20 for plugs and $49.20 Dist cap for labor each. This adds up to: $155.80 for labor for about a 45 min job.

I don't understand why you as a small garage have such a need to defend the large corp. If any thing you should be more understanding. You are saying the large corps have to struggle to make a profit. You are either a fool or you are a part of a big corp trying to talk people in circles to say your doing nothing wrong. As I see it the samller garage is the one that is losing out.

A small mom and pop store has to raise there prices to stay above water, why because the big chain stores are selling at lower costs. It is more reasonable to go to the little store if you only need a few items. However it is wiser to go to the grocery store if you need to do a weeks shopping. Why, well because it would cost triple to shop at the little store.

So why is it the opposite for the large garage? You need to go back to the beginning of my complaint and re read all you wrote. All you do is defend and make excuses for the extremely high cost of parts and labor. You also completely miss the part where they did a tune up on a truck with a bad carb. You didn't once answer a direct question.
so how about instead of the defending and excuses why not answer the question?

Would you do a tune up on any vehicule with a bad carb??

Shops recieve no discount from CHEAP stores, such as Advance, AutoZone, etc for parts purchases. These stores sell to everyone at "jobber". Only the GOOD parts stores, NAPA, CarQuest, Bumper-Bumper, etc give a discount to shops.

Most shops double, or triple the "cost" of the part for resale. Doubling the price results in a 50% gross profit margin. Repair shops operate on a 70% minimum margin, in order to stay open. Adding labor does this. Mark-up pays for the shop, labor pays for labor. Mark-up also pays for warranty work when needed. That's included in shop expenses.

Now, exactly what percentage mark-up do YOU consider to be fair and reasonable?

Never said I cannot rebuild a carb. hugh difference between "never attempt" and "cannot". 10 years ago i would have done it in a heart beat. Mind you though the first time i did it I would have had my Brother-n-law sitting right beside me for the many question i would most likely have while doing it. for the here and now if i really really had to do it myself I would!! however i would have to have said mentioned mentor on the phone as he is in Mass. and I in florida.

As for the bill itself I have already been told by the company that the bill did have an over charge for the computer diagnoses. It was billed and paid twice. I have also gotten two estimates now both for under $400.00 with carb taken care of first. One is a smaller business and the other is a large corp. I am now looking into a few more estimates.

I understand the way business works I did go to school for accounting. I understand mark up on parts and I do believe a good tech is worth a good pay. But you got to understand I see this company as one of those that is on the side of greed. Yes they have a right to mark up a part but triple its worth is crazy. I know business' buy at whole sale and sell at retail. This is how they pay there bills and make a profit. An honest business will have resonable mark ups that are consistant. They will do their best job and will also not do work that is a temporary fix like they did with this truck.

I think that is what upset me the most and I think that is my biggest concern. When the carb work was declined they should have strongly suggested that the tune up work wait until the carb problem was fixed. Would your shop do a tune up on something with a carb problem?

As for the carb it self. With my brother-n-law on the phone I popped the hood, first thing we checked for was; is the carb loose either at the base were two bolts hold it down? it was tight. then we checked to see if the top part of the carb was loose, here again it was tight. we then checked to see if there was a problem with the choke. There is not although we did find a tube (i am not good with the names of thingy's in the engine) that goes to the manifold, it is no longer connected. it is cut and crimpt at the carb. However due to the choke working it seems this is not the problem, although it should be fixed. My brother-n-law has suggested the possibility it is the needle and seat. However we are to also check the float to see if it is working. Due to the fact that we have to replace the needle and seat any ways i have decided to simply do a complete rebuild on the carb and replace the float even if it is alright.

Last year I had to replace a burst brake line on the front drivers side on my daughters car. It burst while we were driving with my grandkids in the car. Any ways the way I do things i chose to replace both front brake lines for the 'just in case'.

See I do have a little knowledge, I can even change a tire. lol As I told the ADM I could have done the tune up myself. I have done it a few times. I decided to have a shop look at the truck so they could confirm the problem with the carb and most likely have them do the work along with a major tune up, as it is worth it to pay a good honest tech to do the work in the convience of a garage with air conditioner and real tools. I have neither. I neglected to tell my son-n-law to call me first with the estimate and work needed to be done. My mistake.

Okay so we have covered Yes I could do the job, and may end up doing it anyways with help via phone with a 25 yr ASE experienced tech, but much would rather not. I have the basic concepts but i would never call myself a tech. I am pretty clued into how business works but i am also smart enough to tell that a company is taking advantage of customers. I think the smartest thing that tech could have done was strongly suggest that the tune up wait rather then say:

"ya its a bit expensive, but it will make your truck run better. However the plugs will foul out soon but all you have to do is take them out and clean them"

This last part of the statement upsets me because my brother-n-law informed me that back in the day you could clean the plugs but now it is not wise because of how the plugs are made.

So robert good day to you. You need not take it so personally when customers complain about feeling 'ripped off' unless you and your business are following similar practices.

You may want to re-read the part where I do say I DO understand fair market mark up on parts that the shops recieve at a discount. I will express one more time I grew up in and around garages both big buiness and small. I know how they order parts, pay for parts, where they get parts, and how they put them in and take them out. So was I clear enough for you?

"All I can say is they seen him coming and wish it had been me that brought the truck in, I'd of laughed them into the ground and went straight to discount auto or autozone and got all the parts for 55.00 then picked up a carb rebuild kit and sat in the hot florida sun and done the work myself."

"And i would never attempt to repair a carburetor."

Which is it Tina? First you claim to be able to do it, then you say you cannot.

As for the steak dinner analogy, every mech I ever knew uses it. Food is "parts", the wait staff is "labor". It's a perfect analogy, when you take into account the cook is "manufacturing".

As for pricing, I still say it's about right for a Tire store like them. Small shops charge alot less, but we also don't have 10K sq ft buildings to pay for, nor do we have $1M inventories to carry. I would have done it all, including fixing the carb for about $400. BTW, all the carb needs is to be removed, and the screws tightened that holds the body to the base. This is the same repair on EVERY 300-6 ever made.

As for being a "tough guy", yep...that's me. Big and tough. Whatever.

It is funny that parts of this rebuttal have exact quotes of a phone conversation i had with Mike ADM. hummmmm I do remember mentioning to him that i found this website last night. He also compared the steak dinner thing with car repair to me . And i would never attempt to repair a carburetor. However it does not take a rocket sciencetist to take out a spark plug, gap it and replace it, or change a spark plug wire, heck a dist cap and rotor is a walk in the park. my 9 yr old grandson could do all three. But you fools are charging 49.20, 49.20 and 57.40 for labor on each item. An hour worth of work taking your time with two breaks.

OH and as far of my son-n-law and his job and his boss. My son in law first does not have the same oppinion as I about his boss. He respects his Boss highly and that is why he took his bosses advice and went to Tires Plus and got the work done that was done. Also if there is one good thing I can say about his Boss it is that he respects the work that my son in law does and my son in law works hard for his money and in what i believe he gets far less money then he is worth for the work he does. He does not waste time and makes good money for his boss. He also brings customers back by doing his job right.

So anyways i came here today to update this little diddy to say i had conversation with the consumer affairs women and then the ADM this morning. And that I was satisfied with those conversations. I knew it would cost around $300.00 to get this work done in a shop. Your right it is cheaper to buy the parts yourself at a discount parts store. But most people don't know that the repair places do get discounts on all parts they purchase from what ever chain they use.

I was told by the ADM that ALL their employees are ASE certified. But when i asked what certification the technician that did the work on this truck had The ADM said he didn't know who did the work, so I told him. He said then that he didn't know but if he wasn't certified that there was an ASE certified tech available for him if he need the help. Sounds to me that he lied when he first said that ALL their employees were ASE.

NO I am not a machanic. I do know my way around the engine. I have the basic concepts. I also, like his employee have an ASE certified technician available by phone for any and all of my car needs. He suggested i have a shop give an estimate to see if would be cheaper to have a shop do it or if I needed to have him come to Florida to do the work. This truck is blowing out BLACK smoke still because it has a carburetor problem that was told to the tires plus people, they should have recommended that (when we declined to have them do the work) we should wait on the tune up until the problem with the carb was fixed. Any honest repair place would never do the tune up until the the main problem was fixed. Oh and by the way I was given a rough estimate via phone today for about $353.00 for the same job that was done. On the back of this service agreement and over the phone with the ADM, the tire plus consumer affair and the station manager all told me I will get the difference in price. However after seeing that the ADM came here and wrote what he did I will not be dealing with him further. I will simple speak with the person i spoke with this morning and fax her a true bona fide written estimate from this well known repair shop Which i will not state here or now.

So Robert, I think you should re-read a bit to see i did the math and if you read as is written you'll see the meaning of what was said. Also i got a lesson in the Mitchell labor manuals today I was also enlightened about the cost and use of the product called ever wear fuel system cleaner and understand it to be a great product. However If i were a trustworthy tech i personally would have strongly suggested that the carb problem be taken care of first so that the customer did not waste their money. How about you tough guy!!

"Well Tires Plus did a computer diagnostic on the truck (funny how this truck is not computerized and has a one barrel carb not fuel injection. But we were charged $89.99 just the same."

The truck does have a computer. All vehicles made since about 1980 have ECM's. Most had them as far back as 1976.

"He was charged get this:
part cost of part labor for remove & replace

Computer diagnostic 89.99
spark plugs 11.94 49.20
dist cap 29.99
dist rotor 10.99 49.20
ignition wires 49.99 57.40
PCV valve 6.99 5.00
Air filter 12.99 N/C
Fuel filter 10.99 24.60
oil filter 3.99
oil 17.00 12.00
Everwera 3-step
fuel cleaner 39.99 50.00

What the heck is this Ever-wear 3-step fuel system cleaner anyways. and 50.00 to dump it into the gas tank? come on!"

The prices look about right. The fuel system cleaner is more than a bottle you pour in the tank.

"All I can say is they seen him coming and wish it had been me that brought the truck in, I'd of laughed them into the ground and went straight to discount auto or autozone and got all the parts for 55.00 then picked up a carb rebuild kit and sat in the hot florida sun and done the work myself."

Sure. First, Tires Plus is not a CHEAP parts store. It is a retail service center. Trying to compare prices at a repair facility to a CHEAP parts store, is like comparing a steak dinner at a real restaurant(not CHEAP), and buying the food yourself at Wally World. I'm sure you have people beating down your door trying to have you rebuild their carburetors.

"On my son-n-laws side though i have to say he didn't do the talking to the machnic it was his boss that talked to them it was his boss that referred them and it was his boss that paid the bill. now my son-n-law can work 3 weekends for 15.00 an hour to pay off the boss for the rip-off job that Tires Plus did. I think His boss John Brown of Browns Tree Service is as much a rip off as he will get 1,200.00 worth of work out of his employee for a 600.00 tune up. What is this world coming too!!"

Let's do the math. $15/hour for 3 days and a total of about 40 hours to pay the bill off. That comes to $600. It appears you believe everyone is trying to rip you off, as long as they are attempting to make a fair profit, or get some work done in exchange for a debt owed.

"On the better note I told my son-n-law that he should work the side jobs with his buddy and get the bill paid in two days and the boss gets squat, and here I am reporting Tires Plus to you and the News media. So who will get the last laugh? Good luck all and watch your pocket books before you say okay get a second opinion."

Yes, alert the media. I'm sure they will jump right on this case.

"Hurry Smithers! Tina is mad because a legit business actually charges it's customers for repair work instead of doing it for FREE! Also, check on this guy John Brown! He's actually expecting his employees to WORK, after he pays the employees repair bill! Ignore the terrorists and child molesters, you have to crack this case wide open! While you're out, drop off my carburetor and have Tina rebuild it...she's the best in the biz, ya know."

Good grief.