Ugly DucklingUgly Duckling Car Sales, Hugh-Mgr. and Frank-salesman sells unsafe, unreliable cars at ridiculous prices. NOT consumer friendly at all! Bradenton Florida
Last April, my fiance and I purchased a 1994 Bonneville from Ugly Duckling in Bradenton, FL. We were told at the time of purchase that even thought the car may have run "ok" during the test drive, if there were any other issues that showed up ...all we had to do was bring it back to them and they would take care of it. Mind you, Frank the saleman had also assured us that "all of their cars" go thru a "rigorous reconditioning factory and systems check."
Well, within days of driving the car off the lot, we had a bad alternator, a clogged radiator, and the car would stall intermitently and act as though it was not getting any gas. We told them right away, and said "their mechanic" would take care of it. Yes, they fixed the alternator twice within one month, and also flushed the radiator. (I guess the recon factory is not as rigorous as they had stated.) However, the car continued to stall unpredictably. In fact, we had the car "repaired" again and thought that it was fixed and would be the reliable car that we had thought it to be upon purchase...but it stalled again. this time while we were out of town.
We had to rent a car and have yet to be reimbursed by the Duck for that. Nor have they reimbursed us for the time we had to rent a car while they had the Bonneville in their shop for a week! All because they fail to fix the problem, nor offer any reasonable solutions. We had even taken it to our mechanic who said it would not code anything on the computer. However, it would continually stall and run as though it was not getting gas. Both their mechanic and ours stated they are puzzled by it. The car physically acts up, but won't code anything when hooked up to a diagnostic machine. It had seemed to be beyond anyone's repair. When I asked Hugh, the lot manager if there was a chance we could be put into a similar car since this one seems to be permanently defunct, he said we had not paid enough into it yet. We pay $170.00 every 2 weeks ..that is $340 a month and we have been ON TIME for a year so far. And they refuse to offer any REAL solution to such reliable customers.
Well, about a month ago, my fiance had reached his limit of tolerance at the local level and chose to take it to the district level..but to no avail as the district manager never returned his calls. So, my fiance called the 1800theduck and dealt with the corporate level. The woman taking care of his complaint had seemed to be quite helpful. Though the local lot said they had replaced a certain part on the car 3 times, her records had showed that it was only replaced once. So, she had ordered them to replace the part for free. (well, not really free as we are still paying $35 every 2 weeks for the last repair they supposedly performed.) The car was in on 4/10/02 and on 4/14/02, the car died again, while returning from Orlando to Bradenton.
This car has stalled on me while executing a left turn, and I was almost broadsided by a truck because of the car's mechanical unreliablitity. I passed this along to Hugh, however he seemed to care little if at all.
To make things worse, we had recommended a friend of ours shortly after we bought our car since they "were so willing to work with us on the repairs" and had, in the early stages, seemed to practice good business ethics. She in turn had recommended her Aunt who had also purchased a car from the same lot. Now, our car, our friend's car AND her Aunt's car are all mechanically defunct and unreliable. Our friend had voluntarily returned her car to them after they refused to fix an oil leak and her motor blew in addition to 3 of her motor mounts being gone. Upon her returing the car to them, they continued to harrass her and even called her cousin an "Uncle Tom" when he answered the phone ( they are an African American family)--she is pursuing a suit re: that issue already. Finally, as I was in line to make a payment one day, a lady came into the office of the lot and demanded to speak to Hugh, and turned in her keys to her car which they also refused to fix.
To me, it seems that the Duck likes to sell low quality cars, and pass them off as being relialbe. Then, when they break down ( and trust me, they will in about a week after purchase)--they try to come accross as being so "consumer friendly" by "offering" to finance the cost of repairs with 30 to 50 percent down and then they break up the balance over 8 payments.
That is not doing us any favors. Selling us a reliable car at reasonable rates is what they should be doing. Selling us a car that is mechanically defunct from time of purchase, and then "helping" us by charging us more money for repairs is NOT my idea of customer service.
Something needs to be done about this company. And something should be done to help us, the mislead consumers who continue to fund this company's bad business practices thru our high monthly rates and repair bills for cars that were bought to be reliable in the first place. Please help us. This is white collar crime if you really look into it.
Juliana & Carlos
Bradenton, Florida
Click here to read other Rip Off Reports on Ugly Duckling Car Sales AKA Drive Time
20 Updates & Rebuttals
Andrew
New Port Richey,Florida,
U.S.A.
The stalling problem/Computer problem
#21Consumer Suggestion
Mon, January 24, 2005
You changed all the sensors and modules and coils on this car and it still happened. I work on computers and I had a car do this. Come to find out the computer of the car was faulty and it later went out. Why was the computer not changed?
Todd
Lancaster,California,
U.S.A.
Drivetime Employee's lie
#21Consumer Comment
Fri, October 22, 2004
I just read that rebuttal about drivetime has now begun selling it's cars with under 50K miles on it and they have no problems with the cars. Nothing but lies. I bought a car from the Wilmington store in california, with 73K + miles on it. i have had the car for 6 months and have had to spend over 15 hundred dollars in repairs for my car. about 800 dollars of that repair was still under warranty while it was being fixed. and when i called drivetime to tell them about this problem again, i got hung up on. even by the manager. they are very unprofessional and will tell you anything to get you into their "high paid" pieces of junk. If i had better credit and wasnt upside down on my car by 9,000 dollars i'd tell them to take their hunk of junk back. but i didnt have credit when i bought the car and dont even have good credit now. but i would recommend that drivetime employees stop lying and tell the truth. you really make yourselves sound dumb when you dont know what your talking about.
Todd
Lancaster,California,
U.S.A.
Drivetime Employee's lie
#21Consumer Comment
Fri, October 22, 2004
I just read that rebuttal about drivetime has now begun selling it's cars with under 50K miles on it and they have no problems with the cars. Nothing but lies. I bought a car from the Wilmington store in california, with 73K + miles on it. i have had the car for 6 months and have had to spend over 15 hundred dollars in repairs for my car. about 800 dollars of that repair was still under warranty while it was being fixed. and when i called drivetime to tell them about this problem again, i got hung up on. even by the manager. they are very unprofessional and will tell you anything to get you into their "high paid" pieces of junk. If i had better credit and wasnt upside down on my car by 9,000 dollars i'd tell them to take their hunk of junk back. but i didnt have credit when i bought the car and dont even have good credit now. but i would recommend that drivetime employees stop lying and tell the truth. you really make yourselves sound dumb when you dont know what your talking about.
Todd
Lancaster,California,
U.S.A.
Drivetime Employee's lie
#21Consumer Comment
Fri, October 22, 2004
I just read that rebuttal about drivetime has now begun selling it's cars with under 50K miles on it and they have no problems with the cars. Nothing but lies. I bought a car from the Wilmington store in california, with 73K + miles on it. i have had the car for 6 months and have had to spend over 15 hundred dollars in repairs for my car. about 800 dollars of that repair was still under warranty while it was being fixed. and when i called drivetime to tell them about this problem again, i got hung up on. even by the manager. they are very unprofessional and will tell you anything to get you into their "high paid" pieces of junk. If i had better credit and wasnt upside down on my car by 9,000 dollars i'd tell them to take their hunk of junk back. but i didnt have credit when i bought the car and dont even have good credit now. but i would recommend that drivetime employees stop lying and tell the truth. you really make yourselves sound dumb when you dont know what your talking about.
Todd
Lancaster,California,
U.S.A.
Drivetime Employee's lie
#21Consumer Comment
Fri, October 22, 2004
I just read that rebuttal about drivetime has now begun selling it's cars with under 50K miles on it and they have no problems with the cars. Nothing but lies. I bought a car from the Wilmington store in california, with 73K + miles on it. i have had the car for 6 months and have had to spend over 15 hundred dollars in repairs for my car. about 800 dollars of that repair was still under warranty while it was being fixed. and when i called drivetime to tell them about this problem again, i got hung up on. even by the manager. they are very unprofessional and will tell you anything to get you into their "high paid" pieces of junk. If i had better credit and wasnt upside down on my car by 9,000 dollars i'd tell them to take their hunk of junk back. but i didnt have credit when i bought the car and dont even have good credit now. but i would recommend that drivetime employees stop lying and tell the truth. you really make yourselves sound dumb when you dont know what your talking about.
Don
Sarasota,Florida,
U.S.A.
And I thought I had spelling problems ...their sales people are sharks
#21Consumer Suggestion
Wed, June 16, 2004
First of all, sorry for the spelling errors in my first posting, that's what I get for not proof-reading my work.
Secondly, Marc, I'm glad to read about all your certifications; I am sure you are a fine mechanic.
According to the 2nd paragraph in the above rebuttal ("The cars and trucks that drive time sells are, for the most part under 50k miles, and we have stopped selling cars with reoccuring problems. They are not even bought."), this company WAS in the habit of selling cars with recurring problems and was undependable. While the cars they purchase for resale now are under 50K, we all know that is not a barrier to repair problems or dependability. Otherwise, why would they end up on Drive Times lot?
While it seems Drive Time cleaned up it's act regarding the cars they sell, their track record precedes them as one that rips of their customers and refuses to stand behind their products. One should be very cautious in purchasing a vehicle from them. I still maintain that their sales people are sharks, as some things never change.
Mark
Bradenton,Florida,
U.S.A.
now that the facts are streight
#21UPDATE Employee
Tue, June 15, 2004
tech for don in sarisodi,
For your information drive time only hires ASE certified techs. I am a master ase cerified. DOT certified, and Ensco certified. I am also a member of iATN and the NHRA.
The cars and trucks that drive time sells are, for the most part under 50k miles, and we have stopped selling cars with reoccuring problems. They are not even bought.
So now that the facts are streight, thanks for wasting the band width.
Don
Sarasota,Florida,
U.S.A.
Hard learned lessons, Ugly Duckling/Drive Time are disreputable, borderline criminal and do not care about their customers
#21Consumer Suggestion
Mon, June 14, 2004
It is clear that Ugly Duckling/Drive Time are disreputable, borderline criminal and do not care about their customers. They use every trick in the book (mechanical, as well as sales) to get you into one of their lemons. Of course the first rule of thumb is LET THE BUYER BEWARE. Realize that with a high milage car, there are going to be things that go wrong and need replacing. Learn what those things are and keep it in mind when buying any used car.
I have spoken to these people when it was an Ugly Duckling used car lot and it was clear to me that the people posing as sales people were scum bags trying to meet a quota so they can get a paycheck. That is where their interest in you ends. If you think otherwise, you are fooling themselves. Most of their employees have very low moral character and a bare minimum of ethics. As far as the mechanics go, I would be sure they are ASE certified and if not, don't believe a word they say. Beyond that, do not feel you are at the mercy of these people because you may be hard to finance. Explore other options. They are available if you look hard enough. If you are reading this now, use the internet to research the type of car you want and the auto mechanic web sites that give free advice. If you really want to stick it to them (Ugly Duckling/Drive Time) the way they stuck it to you, alert your media, newspaper, tell everyone you know not to do business with them. Sales will suffer and they will either go under or clean up their act. Make them uncomfortable. LET THE BUYER BEWARE. Yuo are consumers, not victims. Act like it.
MARK
BRADENTON,Florida,
U.S.A.
You need to get your story straight
#21UPDATE Employee
Mon, June 14, 2004
You need to get your story straight with the facts before YOU wind up in court.Frank was not moved from dealership to dealership. when he left drive time/ugly duckling, he took gaine full employment at another dealership in the area. the event that was said to of happened(RAPE) he was arrested for, on the word of the so called victim and jailed.He was bonded out in a few days, and after four months of investigation by the police and states attorneys office, it was found that the victim LIED and the charges where DISMISSED! now the so called victim is faced with prosecution herself! so you see your facts are not straight and neither are your compliants!
MARK
BRADENTON,Florida,
U.S.A.
You need to get your story straight
#21UPDATE Employee
Mon, June 14, 2004
You need to get your story straight with the facts before YOU wind up in court.Frank was not moved from dealership to dealership. when he left drive time/ugly duckling, he took gaine full employment at another dealership in the area. the event that was said to of happened(RAPE) he was arrested for, on the word of the so called victim and jailed.He was bonded out in a few days, and after four months of investigation by the police and states attorneys office, it was found that the victim LIED and the charges where DISMISSED! now the so called victim is faced with prosecution herself! so you see your facts are not straight and neither are your compliants!
MARK
BRADENTON,Florida,
U.S.A.
You need to get your story straight
#21UPDATE Employee
Mon, June 14, 2004
You need to get your story straight with the facts before YOU wind up in court.Frank was not moved from dealership to dealership. when he left drive time/ugly duckling, he took gaine full employment at another dealership in the area. the event that was said to of happened(RAPE) he was arrested for, on the word of the so called victim and jailed.He was bonded out in a few days, and after four months of investigation by the police and states attorneys office, it was found that the victim LIED and the charges where DISMISSED! now the so called victim is faced with prosecution herself! so you see your facts are not straight and neither are your compliants!
MARK
BRADENTON,Florida,
U.S.A.
You need to get your story straight
#21UPDATE Employee
Mon, June 14, 2004
You need to get your story straight with the facts before YOU wind up in court.Frank was not moved from dealership to dealership. when he left drive time/ugly duckling, he took gaine full employment at another dealership in the area. the event that was said to of happened(RAPE) he was arrested for, on the word of the so called victim and jailed.He was bonded out in a few days, and after four months of investigation by the police and states attorneys office, it was found that the victim LIED and the charges where DISMISSED! now the so called victim is faced with prosecution herself! so you see your facts are not straight and neither are your compliants!
Juliana
Bradenton,Florida,
U.S.A.
Frank was arrested for rape
#21Author of original report
Wed, December 31, 2003
To answer your question about Frank being moved all over the company....well..he was actually working at a completely DIFFERENT car dealership in Bradenton and was arrested and convicted earlier this year for raping a customer on the car lot of the new dealership as she was looking at some cars.
Goes to show what kind of shady, dangerous people the Duck/Drivetime choses to employ..doesn't it.
Hille
Tampa,Florida,
U.S.A.
Making the Rounds
#21Consumer Comment
Wed, April 09, 2003
Thank you for sharing your experience. I am in a similar situation in that I am in a car that has about 1K in repairs monthly. How is Ugly Duckling/Drive Time helping people restore their credit with cars that cause the loanee to jeapodize their other financial obligations when they have a loan payment and repairs. For the amount I pay a month, I should be driving a Jag!
By the way, Frank has been passed from location to location. Is he considered a top employee?
Hille
Tampa,Florida,
U.S.A.
Making the Rounds
#21Consumer Comment
Wed, April 09, 2003
Thank you for sharing your experience. I am in a similar situation in that I am in a car that has about 1K in repairs monthly. How is Ugly Duckling/Drive Time helping people restore their credit with cars that cause the loanee to jeapodize their other financial obligations when they have a loan payment and repairs. For the amount I pay a month, I should be driving a Jag!
By the way, Frank has been passed from location to location. Is he considered a top employee?
Hille
Tampa,Florida,
U.S.A.
Making the Rounds
#21Consumer Comment
Wed, April 09, 2003
Thank you for sharing your experience. I am in a similar situation in that I am in a car that has about 1K in repairs monthly. How is Ugly Duckling/Drive Time helping people restore their credit with cars that cause the loanee to jeapodize their other financial obligations when they have a loan payment and repairs. For the amount I pay a month, I should be driving a Jag!
By the way, Frank has been passed from location to location. Is he considered a top employee?
Hille
Tampa,Florida,
U.S.A.
Making the Rounds
#21Consumer Comment
Wed, April 09, 2003
Thank you for sharing your experience. I am in a similar situation in that I am in a car that has about 1K in repairs monthly. How is Ugly Duckling/Drive Time helping people restore their credit with cars that cause the loanee to jeapodize their other financial obligations when they have a loan payment and repairs. For the amount I pay a month, I should be driving a Jag!
By the way, Frank has been passed from location to location. Is he considered a top employee?
Juliana and Carlos
Bradenton,Florida,
FREE from Bradenton Ugly Ducklings hassles!
#21Consumer Suggestion
Thu, June 27, 2002
Just an update, as you can see the Bradenton office seems to care little about our response to their rebuttal.
My fiance and I are now enjoying 2 VERY RELIABLE used cars...a 97 Dodge Grand Caravan and a 1999 candy apple red Dodge Intrepid...with a CD player to boot! AND we are paying less on EACH of those cars!
AND we have a warranty on both of them! AND..we got them both within 2 weeks of eachother from a VERY reputable dealer here in town. I know I cannot mention the name...but our advice to others..BEFORE you think you cannot get financing through REAL dealers...TRY TRY TRY...also look into on line auto loans...that is what helped us get into the Intrepid!
WE applied...got approved on line and within days the company sent us a draft check! Let me tell you, dealers like to see you come in with a draft check in hand..they are much more willing to do business with you as they see you are serious about buying a car.
So, the Duck got their peice of crap back..they came and repoed it..thank God..and I letter with a copy of the rip off reports filed will be send to each of the three credit bureaus explaining why we had them take the car back.
Good luck to you all out there! Keep on fighting back...we CAN put the Duck out of business...after all...when it comes to consumer affairs..it is ALWAYS Ugly Duck hunting season!!
Thank you for your time in reading this.
Carlos
Bradenton,Florida,
to Marc of Ugly Duckling Bradenton,FL
#21Consumer Comment
Sat, April 20, 2002
This is Carlos, the main purchaser of the car in question. And this is MY response to Marc. I am extremely OFFENDED and appauld by the apethetic attitude both Marc and Hugh are exibiting in this situation.
You both have sat down and talked to me and in my face said that you cared about me as a customer and would do what you could to help me out in this.
Yet, in your last posts you both act as if you dont have any clue as to what we are talking about and portraying yourselves and UG as VICTIMS. Put yourself in my situation. You purchase a car, and all you get to do is test drive it ( and mind you, YOU ARE NOT A MECHANIC), and it seems to run ok on the 5 minute test drive.
The manager tells you "I know a 5 minute test drive cannot tell you much about how a car really runs, if anything goes wrong with the car, write em down, bring it back and we will take care of it." NOW WHAT DON'T YOU UNDERSTAND ABOUT A MAN'S WORD BEING A MAN'S BOND? Hugh is the manager of a supposed reputable dealership, and when I brought up the issues of things showing up as wrong after driving it a bit, he stated he would take care of it.
Would you not also be upset if the car that you purchaced ended up being a LEMON and all those people who you thought were on your side ended up acting as if YOU are a liar and a fraud? Additionally, Frank the salesman used the term "rigrous reconditioning factory" so you must get your facts strait Marc. That was HIS terminology NOT ours! We also can produce reciepts for oil changes and tune ups NOT done by you ..so to blatantly accuse us of not taking care of the car is insulting, unethical and all around bad business Marc.
Just becuase ONE oil filter was not changed, by another service center...does NOT give you the right to assume that we never had the oil changed. WE HAVE the documentation to prove it so please, know your facts first before accusing us. To think that we would make this all up, spend HUNDREDS of dollars on rental cars, just to play a game is not only dumb but it makes no sense at all. It doesnt matter if you have done some of the work at your cost. As good customer service it should have been your pleasure to help us out as we didn't cause the Alternator to go bad, or the radiator needing flushing, or for the Valves to be bad. All in all that is a small price to pay for customers who have paid on time and have referred others to you. You act as if it is our PRIVILEGE to get your help. I say that you did what you were supposed to do as business people.
To say that you never heard of the stalling issue until 4 or 5 months ago is an OUTRIGHT LIE! HUGH has known that it has been stalling within days of us buying it and we have PROOF of him acknowledging this. We brought the car back for stalling, and in fact, you assumed that the car was stalling because the batttery power was dropping.
Is you memory really failing you THAT much? Please, Marc, you know the car had stalling issues and initially thought it was battery or alternator related. You said there was a problem with the alternator and yes, you replaced it at not cost to us. HOWEVER, that did NOT fix the stalling issue. Every repair you have done, charged to us or not, has FAILED to fix the problem at hand.
Also as to not ever being able to see and duplicate the "stalling issue". On January 18, 2002, my Fiance and a co-worker came back from a trip to ST. Petersburg. The car had stalled 8 TIMES on her way back home. SHe called me and I told her to take it to UG and let Hugh see that it was stalling. Juli pulled into the parking lot about 7pm and Hugh was in the office.
The car was sputtering as she pulled in and had white smoke was coming out from under the hood and was jerky pulling into the lot. She went in and said to Hugh that the car is stalling right now can you come out and look so you can see that it is acting up? Hugh replied to her that "he was not a mechanic and didn't know what he would be looking at".
So he REFUSED to come out and see that the car was not running properly. Even if to just verify that we were correct. The Co-worker was in the car waiting and can verify that this did happen.
Now, in YOUR rebuttal, you stated that a small glitch in the computer's stream line was found by our mechanic (reread your post Marc, it is there) and yet in the end you state that there was nothing wrong with the computer stream line. SO, you contradicted yourself.
Seems that you guys are trying to cover up your own incompetencies and worse yet, you call your customers liars. WE are the ones that help fund your paychecks.
We deserve more respect that what you, Hugh, or anyone else from your lot has now shown us. And interestingly enough, it is not just us that has had issues with this company. Read the other complaints. The facts speak for themselves.
marc
bradenton,Florida,
serivce tech.
#21UPDATE Employee
Sat, April 20, 2002
Frist off for the record i am the tech at this dealership.i have not talked to this lady about this vehicle but to carlos. let me make some thing clear as i can, ALL vehicles at our lot are sold "AS IS" the buyer is made aware of that through the entire buying process!
with that understood(you do understand AS IS! right mam???) if the car only ran "ok" then why buy a car AS IS when you where not satisfied with the cars performance??? did you ask for the car to be repaired before you bought it??? the car had been brought back to the dealership shortly after it was bought as the alternator had failed.
this is common for a car diven this many miles and sitting waiting to be bought.the alt. that was obtained was remanufactured and was defective, and replaced again. they were never charged for the part or the labor.the other main issue was the mass amount of oil consuption, no signs of burning or leaking so the pcv was changed at NO CHARGE!
the clogged radiator was not the case. the radiator and coolant were in need of service due to the spacific gravity and is common practice in my shop to flush when an fluid exchange is needed.(the radiator was not clogged)all this time nothing was ever said to me or another employee of a stalling or drivibility problem. next we don't have a "reconditioning factory" we have a mega repair center that all vehicles must go through before being sent to the lots.no matter what lot you goto new or used me you or anyone can find something wrong with any used or new vehicle, if you know what to look for!
we do check ALL safty and drivibility items and they are addressed first. i don't know anyone that has a crystal ball to tell the when their car is going to break. now to the stalling. i first heard of the stalling issue four or five months ago and the car came in to the shop. after the test were run for the stalling problem it was concusive that the 18x signal from the crank position sensor was intermittent it was replaced .
again the customer was NOT charged for parts or labor! then the following month came the same complaint.i check the car out and found nothing. after hrs of testing and test driving we could not duplicate the condition the customer decribed. so we subletted the car to an outside vender for the repair.
they also could not duplicate the condition. but to ensure the previous repair was not an isssue we had them install another crank. pos. sensor.(this is a common component to fail)and we decided to replace the ign. module and the three coils to try to eliminate the complaint.
the customer was charged for the wholesale cost of the coils and mod. the car was returned to the customer with NO CHARGE!for the crank sensor. a month or so ago, weeks after the repair carlos called to say he was having the same stalling problem, at that point we gave him the option to take the car anywhere he wanted too for the repair, he opted to bring it back to us but wanted his mechanic to check it.his tech. told him "it's a mystery to me" why it stalls and could only come up with a small glitch from the computers data stream.
so we subleted the car again to another shop. they could not duplicate the condition.(now we have three diffrent shops and their own mechanic not able to duplicate the condition, all ASE certified techs..) so the cam and crank sensor was replaced again at NO CHARGE!we also notice that it had the same oil filter on it from our main repair center, as again they were complaining about oil consumpsion. we flushed the crankcase, changed the oil and filter and again changed the pcv at NO CHARGE!now that we have the facts you have paid only a little for as many times as this car has been in our shop and or sublets.
and now that you told us about every body in your family, neighborhood, city and state and how much this delema has cost you, i would like to ask every one what AS IS don't you understand??? we were helping you as being one of our customers to get the car fixed! even your own mechanic says there is nothing wrong!all diagnostic test are negative!
the computers data stream is in order!and there is NO codes! only you can simulate the complaint! so i ask the public who has the crystal ball to tell us what is wrong with this picture???? if someone finds one please bring it to the lot and let me use it!i will not address all the other issues she has to cry about because the only thing that matters here is the fact they bought a used car AS IS that was inspected for defects and repaired no routine servicing that was visable(other than what we did) and alot of driven miles.and little out of pocket expence for repairs.sound to me like your looking to buy a car and take no responsiblity of ownership!! thanks for everyone elses time, marc