Complaint Review: Us Army Basic Training

"I am a fixed wing aviator (helicopter pilot) in the Army and also hold a masters in aeronautical science, and had this degree before I ever joined the military."

Ummmm...helicopters are ROTARY wing aircraft. I would think a PILOT(only the Navy refers to them as aviators) would know this. I would also think someone with a Masters Degree in Aeronautics would.

Makes me wonder....

I am in the Army and I am sincerely sorry that you had to endure this situation. This is yet another case of cover-your-a$$ in the Army and I for one do not condone that in the least. My idea is commit a crime and do the time. We have to set the standard for others to see that this behavior is not tolerated.

My basic rebuttal is that the closing "hypocrits" comment is not necessarily warranted. While this situation might have you thinking and feeling this, not all Army personnel are like that. This also goes for the employee rebuttal of "Last refuge for the uneducated". I have a degree in Compter Programming and volunteered to come back in the Army after the 911 incident to fight for my country. I am not here because I am not educated nor am I here for the money. I made much more money before I came back in the Army but it's my choice and I don't regret it. I am defending my country.

Also, you must compare the Army with a large company like Wal-Mart. When a company employs so many people, there is no way in the world to weed out all of the dirt bags that make it through the cracks. It's just impossible. Now, I am surely not saying that what happend to you is OK, I am just saying that there are dirt bags in any organization at every level. Otherwise we would never need a police force.

Thank you for listening.

Danielle, it appears that the uneducated you make reference to may be yourself. I am a fixed wing aviator (helicopter pilot) in the Army and also hold a masters in aeronautical science, and had this degree before I ever joined the military. As for "murderers", I suppose you'd rather we sat around and just let other countries sort out their own problems like we did in WWII. That seemed to work out pretty well for us, except for that pesky Pearl Harbor, and all those concentration camps, and so on and so on. I'll continue to do what's right and protect you, even if you don't want me to.

Sometimes things happen for a reason....Maybe in you had succeeding in basic training they might have flown you right to Iraq and you would have gotten killed...or perhaps critically injured in which you were left an amputee....My best friend's nephew was killed by an IED bomb Iraq last year.

Rent the movie "Alive Day," a documentary about wounded US soldiers in Iraq....It'll probably make you feel better about what happened...or perhaps what didn't happen.

Robert was alluding to the draft dodging Americans (when there was a draft) that headed up to Canada to avoid combat. Not a person like yourself who is Canadian and proudly served your country.

Jennifer: Lesson number one in life is that life is not fair. But all that aside your friend who was married (even though husband cheated too). Falls under the UCMJ as adultery. If the guy she slept with was married to would have faced the same. Did your roommate have sex with other guys as well?? That may have caused her to go to the brig as well. They may have gone lighter on him for other reasons since I think the adultery charge may have even stuck on him if he knew she was married. Just depends on the command I guess.

I live at Ft. Lee My husband is an MP. Ft Lee is a training base for most part for AIT. At least once a weekend while walking through any of the Pxs/ Pxtra I will see a woman trainee on her cell phone crying to mommy and daddy that it is too hard. It makes me sick. In 2003 when my husband went through basic and ait he was not allowed out of his uniform (these days they get civis to wear and can leave post), he was not allowed a cell phone, for him he woke up one morning down in Missouri and they said "welcome to ait" they had the same sleeping corders and the same rules. There are plenty of women who can deal with what the army dishes out. I don't care if you grew up in a male dominate house hold that doesn't mean your good enough.

Why is it if a drill sergeant yells at a man he doesn't cry but a woman does? Most women's minds break too easy. It's not just a physical aspect they put you through they have to know you are good enough mentally to be interogated if captured.

Jessica Lynch might look all sweet but I bet she is stubborn as a bull and didn't complain during basic. She KNEW what she willingly signed up for.

The military is the last refuge for the uneducated, so what did you honestly expect? Do you actually expect any class out of these uneducated murderers? Give me a break.

Many of these problems are from co-ed boot camps. That's what you get from trying to be "PC". Not like the Marines. I stand corrected on "battle buddy". Took my granddaughter out to Ft Sam hospital. All the newbies had a "battle buddy" which I thought was a very good idea. It's not smart, sending an unaccompanied, single, ill, female, or otherwise, soldiers around post. The idea of sending females, in two's makes sense. A lot harder for those predators, male or female, to make advances. The idea of co-ed traing, especially in boot camp is stupid. Those newbies don't have a clue about the way the military works. The females shouldn't be exposed to the males at least until after boot camp, except on a limited, controlled basis. That way, they'll have a better understanding of the military world and their position in it. God bless our troops and those navy guys too.

First a comment to Jason, you stated:

"...for all we know, even the "dominant" Naval Infantry guys want us to "Breed" them." I would LOVE to see you say this, face to face to a Navy Seal. I will stack up a Navy Seal or a Marine Recon against an Army Ranger any day of the week.

Basic training for all services, the U.S. Marine Corps aside, is like summer camp compared to what it formerly used to be. Not only was basic training NOT integrated, it was not uncommon for an enlistee to find themselves on the ground for looking sideways at a drill sargent. We slept little more than 3-4 hours for 16 weeks; how the military has managed to reduce this training to as little as 9 weeks is beyond belief. Life sucked, you heard yourself called every imaginable foul name in the English language and then a few you didn't know existed.

Yet, after it all, you left with basic values that are highly lacking in many people - dignity, honor and respect.

Your version of basic training Jennifer was a picnic in comparison. Simply put, you apparently were not well suited to be a soldier. If you could not tolerate a few harsh words or accusations how would you have expected to survive should you have been taken captive by extermists in the current conflicts the military is involved in.

As another poster stated, your situation is PRECISELY what basic training is for - to weed out those who cannot endure the rigors of military life.

To all Soldiers, Sailors, Airman and Marines my heartfelt thanks for the job you do.

Jennifer, I believe everything you are saying and submit that you were one of the lucky ones...
I have basic training horror stories that could easily fill up a few volumes in a book.
My 'battle buddy' apparently got pregnant from a rendevous the day before her departure to basic. Midway thru the course (about 3 or 4 weeks pregnant at this point) she had a miscarriage. The drill asked her 'why was her COOCHIE bleeding so bad'! He was classless and I would have held him personally responsible for her death...if I lived long enough to tell it.


I was threatend as was she and felt free to tell only after basic was over. He went up on charges and was given a pay/rank reduction. Another drill screwed three trainees. The chosen few got special treatment and the story was discovered when the three got jealous of each other...of course you can guess what happened to him to (pay /rank reduction).
TO think that a woman went to jail for cheating on her husband is unreal. I doubt that the wives of these two scumbags ever found out and I would bet even more that they too were given the 'pimp daddy' moniker to wear around as a badge of prowess. The only way that my kids could join ANY branch of the service would be to pry the appropriate paperwork out of my dead corpse.

Jennifer,
The high level of hypocrisy and unprofessional behavior that you were subjected to is disgraceful. The Army is the only "job" where a new employee is treated with disrespect and harassed on a constant basis. When a soldier arrives at their first duty station, they should be trained in a positive atmosphere.

However, this does not happen. Instead, they go through a period of juvenile hazing reminiscent of a third grade class during recess. The only subject branded into the new soldier's mind is that of, "everyone has to go through this" and they are told that the harassment will cease when the "next new soldier arrives". This completes a perfect circle...of stupidity.

It does not appear that this counterproductive way of thought is going to change. The Army leadership not only tolerates this behavior, they encourage and often take part in it. So, who would want to be part of an organization that says one thing (7 Army Values) but does the opposite? Quality officers, NCOs and soldiers are not sticking around for this "Titanic" to sink. That leaves our country's Army with leadership surfacing from the very bottom of the barrel.

To those ignorant few who will choose to ignore this problem and attack me, I understand, that is how the Army trained you.

As a former Infantry NCO and a Unit Retention NCO, Jennifer, thank you for your service.

I was stationed at fort lost in the woods as it is named. basic and Advanced Individual Training. I being a male had problems with the so called chain of command. mainly to address my wife's infidelity in battallion formation over a loud speaker. with comments like not man enough for her and some others not needed to specify.
the US military has it's ups and downs but i would like to add all the comments with the marines being the best, please grow up I was stationed at fort riley kansas well known for my almamater THE BIG RED ONE. 34TH ENGR BATTALLION we would take what was crap and rebuild it with some pride. as far as the army is concerned I believe that there are a lot of double standards
involved but you never hear them tell you at enlistment of expendable,government property and so on. h*o RAH for those serving in the military hope they all come back safe.

I am born and raised in california , my mother was born in canada as were her parents of whom were both enlisted in the royal canadian airforce my grand father was a great provider for his home land and his family. he was also a 50 year member with the knoghts of columbus, I buried him several months ago in maui and i want to say I MISS AND LOVE YOU GRAMPA HOPE THAT YOU ARE SAFE IN HEAVEN. canada is a great place just exspensive. hang in there maple leafs

He complained to me that his unit had to lend some marines their Hummers. He said that for seven months his unit had kept the Hummers nice, and had only one wounded man thus far. The marines took the doors off the Hummers, went hunting, using speakers to taunt the terrorists, and brought the Hummers back full of holes. He was pissed that the terrorists were now mad at the army and mortaring their base, where previously it had beeen fairly quiet. Plus his shiny Hummers were all shot up. The army has a different way of looking at things, that's for sure.

Jennifer...
You've got to be kidding me. Did the Army teach you about this little thing called the UCMJ? Otherwise known as the Uniform Code of Military Justice? Of course your friend got punished worse. She's MARRIED! Even if her husband was cheating...for him to get in trouble they'd have to catch him with his pants around his ankles. Obviously your friend or her "bed buddy" didn't know how to keep their mouths shut!

And finally...Michael, from Utah...were you in the Army. I've seen some pretty undesirable women in that uniform. But many of the female marines I knew and served with were gorgeous. You're crazy to say that about females in the military. You, and men like you are probably the reason why females don't want to join! And there are many undesirable men that wear the uniform and that's the only reason they get any. Next time think before you speak!
Semper Fi! And God Bless to all men and women in in uniform and the families they leave behind!!

I only have two words to say to all you military people, present and former .....

(No Robert, not *those* two words. Hehehe.)


THANK YOU!!! :-)

This term Battle Buddy is specifice to the Army, and is specific to a basic training [AIT]environment.

Army basic trainees and non NCO WTC students must have a partner to go anywhere or do anything. This is your Battle Buddy.

It is for purposes of accountability and safety according to the Army. The Army has a high level of AWOL in basic training and WTC [basic training for prior service].

The Army also has a lot of problems with sexual harassment and sexual assault in the entire service, especially in a basic training environment.

The Army has the lowest entry requirements of all services. They treat all non-NCO soldiers like children.

I have seen this first hand as I have served in 3 branches of military.

I am a 30% service connected disabled veteran due to faulty Army training and double standards.

Jennifer, I can see your side here.

I went back in the corps, then the army, and I had a real culture shock. I liken army reption to a county jail. Parris island is still parris island, they don't hit people anymore. my platoon had to work at the 4th bn.(female) chowhall, we were told not to look at them. I was in the back running garbage and filling up mop buckets, so i was outside most of the time. You only saw females at church, and maybe if you had to go to sick call for something. They stayed in their own little world at 4th. At ft knox I went through a 17 week armor course. They don't have female soldiers. The big problem with army training as opposed to marine training is the standards. they people at basic are not being pushed trained as well as the guys going into combat arms. benning and leonard wood has higher standards than ft jackson. And the national guard guys are treated much worse and given a lower priority in equipment and training. That's why they're getting shot up.

I am a 20 year military goon. I hate the politics and mindless B.S that goes on in the military. My rantings about it have got me in trouble numerous times. But I was right and I kept my self respect intact.

Anyway, boot camp is supposed to be tough. Ever since the military got politically correct and made boot camps co-ed, moral has gone down the tubes. Boot camp shold be like it is in "Full Metal Jacket". Not the current watered down version with "stress cards". Give me a break!

The Navy put women on ships and guess what: LOTS of pregnancy's. Duh! Trying to legislate morality and human emotions is a waste of time but the military seems to think they can. Then again the politicians make them. Why is this country's defense being played in the political arena? Makes no sense to me and never will.

I applaud you for serving your country. I think every able bodied person as soon as they are out of high school should have to put in a mandatory term in the military. You enjoy the freedoms you have so you should have to defend them.

Finally, my 20 years of service have proven to me one undeniable truth: unattractive women join the service because they know that some poor b*****d is gonna be desperate enough to have sex with her.

West Jordan, Utah

Actually, Jarod is my husband, who might I add is currently a Navy Reservist. "I" went to boot camp myself a few years back and I can handle the yelling just fine. Your very right, even in the last 3 years since I was enlisted boot camp has been totally wussed out BUT its not fair to begrudge someone who tried to serve her country because she had a frustrating experience. I was hearing on the news a few months ago about the recruit who died at boot camp and the investigation afterward, (think he was a Marine recruit), would you tell the family of that young man not to complain and call him a wuss who deserved to die because he couldn't handle the training?

And yes I know a bit of ribbing is fine, its another to completely say one branch is better then the other.

I liken the Navy and the Marines to a theatre troupe. In a theatrical group you have to have both the actors and the techs. Without the actors the techs may have a fancy light show but not much else. And without the techs the actors have no lights, sound, set, etc. The Navy needs the Marines to handle some of the harder tasks and the Marines need the Navy to get them there.

My paycheck has my name all over it, including in the signature line. I own my own business. As for being nothing without the Navy, well, I suggest you research the Marine Corps a little further. The Navy needed men who could actually fight and defend the ships as the sailors were unable to do so. Luckily, for the last couple of hundred years, the Navy has been there to take the Marines wherever they needed to go. Real members of the US Military(active, reservist, retired, former) don't mind a little fun ribbing between the branches. The non-hackers don't get it and never will. Boot camp is so easy today compared to what it was years ago, that anyone who can't make muster deserves ridicule. The recruits are coddled and heaven forbid anyone gets yelled at. I actually had some "boots" hand me their "stress-cards" when they couldn't take the yelling anymore. They can't stand the stress of YELLING! How are they going to handle the stress of being shot at and blown up. Stress-cards. Holy cow! They got to police the area after I ripped up all the stress-cards they had in their possession. I will grant you women have their place in the military. The recruiting posters for the Women Marines said it best..."Free a Man to Fight!" Who you gonna call? Ghostbusters!

To the originator of this post, I can relate all too well. I was in a co-ed division in Navy boot camp when I blew out my knee (multple tears of ligaments and extensive cartlidge damage) and it just sucked, I was degraded and mistreated by my RDC's (to the point of having my needed crutches being thrown across the barracks), only filing a complaint with the medical representative got them off my back. Don't take some of these nasty comments to heart. You volunteered for the Army in a time of war and that in and of itself should make you proud. Women are a very important part of the US military and don't ever forget that.

For those who are making the Marines out to be a bunch of bad asses, ummm look on your paycheck sometime and tell me what it says.....Department of the United States NAVY. You would be nothing without your Navy counterpart and I suggest you recognize!

What a great stroke of luck that you are gone, as we do not need more soldiers like you. That is what basic training is for, to root out people like you.

Marines: When speaking about dominant males, one must make sure they are indeed dominant. Your reasoning is solid, which is probably why us RANGERS breed more than any Marine...for all we know, even the "dominant" Naval Infantry guys want us to "Breed" them.

Do something difficult, and you want have to ask for Respect. Sua Sponte.

SSG "F" 2/75th AIRBORNE RANGER

All those different branches, and the one every female wanted to have sex with were Marines. That doesn't mean we are sex-crazed. It means that, just like in all of nature, females will pick out the dominant members of the species to mate with. I'm sorry if you all just don't make the cut. Semper Fi Cory, and to all of the veterans and active members, no matter what branch, enjoy your holiday this weekend.

I have nothing but respect for the Marine Corps...I would suggest, however, that the Marines are not exempt from sexual misconduct in the military. As a member of the Army, I attended a tri-service advanced training school with Army, Navy and Marine types in it. The Marine males were screwing like rabbits, anything that would move...Female Army soldiers, female Marines, female Navy, civilians, etc. There were more problems with Marines acting up sexually than any other service.

Oh boy! The Canada comment got the bats out of the belfry. We all know the Canadians gave alot during WW1 and WW2. The Corvette Squadrons were the reason the convoys made it across the Atlantic. Canadians also made up roughly 1/2 of the 1st Special Service Force(Devil's Brigade) and were very good fighters. That was before they were taken over by the left-wing radicals that still govern their country.

The fact is, there are fewer than 50K troops total in the Canadian military, all branches combined. The reason is because no Canuck wants to join. Their own govt tries to keep it's people from joining.

Why should they join? Everyone up there knows the US will not allow a missile to hit anywhere in our hemisphere, or allow any hostile military action either. That is because of the Monroe Doctrine. The movie Canadian Bacon speaks volumes about how an invasion would play out though. Funny stuff.

Apparently I am not the only one who laughs at the term "Battle Buddy", eh Cory? There is no "battle" in bootcamp, so no need for a "Battle Buddy". And having individual rooms instead of squad bays? Maybe that's one reason the Army is getting waxed in Iraq, while the Marines(the ONLY branch we really need) are taking few casualties and racking up big numbers.

The Marines have NO problems meeting/exceeding recruitment goals. The Army is sucking hind tit. An Army of one? Try using an Army of 1.5 million and get the job done as a team. As for Troy, poor boy.

He likes to hop-up his Neon and when it blows apart, wants the dealership to pay for it. He seems to be the angry one. Toodle-oo.

The Canada comment was classless and uncalled for. Might I suggest reading what you type before you post? It'll save you from making an a*s of yourself. And btw, the term "Battle Buddy" has been used by the Army for years. All it means is your training partner, that's all, nothing else to read into. If you have a problem with the verbage, write your congressman. I'm sure he or she would appreciate one of your angry rants.

About 110,000 Canadians died in the 1914-1918 and 1939-1945 Wars (65,000 and 45,000 respectively); some were interred in Canada, but the vast majority lie buried abroad.
pg

I'm a retired Canadian Army soldier.
(You have no purpose obviously being in any military(maybe Canada will take you0
Does not mean if we are not at war does not mean
we take anybody.

Maybe you need some refreshment on Canadian role in the world war subject
Canada's Role in WWII

From the Beginning...
Canada entered the 1939-1945 War on 10th September 1939. Within two months the first contingents of Canadian troops arrived in the United Kingdom to supplement the British Expeditionary Forces (BEF). Forestalled by the evacuation of the British Army from Dunkirk and the Channel ports, Canada's role became one of defence of the British Isles. Far across the globe a small force of Canadians arrived in Hong Kong in time to meet the Japanese invasion, and fought with the British, Indian and Hong Kong forces in defence of the colony until the surrender on Christmas Day 1941.

Dieppe
On l9th August 1942 troops of the Canadian 2nd Division formed the bulk of the Dieppe Raid. Of the 5,000 Canadians who took part, only about 2,000 returned to England: nearly 1,000 had been killed and 2,000 taken prisoner. A further 500 Canadians lost their lives when they landed in Sicily as part of the Eighth Army on 10th July 1943.

The Cost of Battle
On 3rd September a combined Canadian, British and American force made the first full-scale invasion of mainland Europe, attacking on the 'toe' of Italy and reaching Naples on 1st October. Canadian troops fought at Ortona and Monte Cassino and in May 1944 took part in the costly, but successful, attack on the Hitler line: the first major operation by a Canadian corps in the 1939-1945 War. The battle northwards through Italy continued to the war's end and ultimately cost the lives of nearly 6,000 Canadians.

Normandy
Landing in Normandy on 6th June 1944 as part of the Allied invasion force, the Canadians played an important role in the battle to take Caen. They then advanced along the French seacoast to the Pas-de-Calais and took Dieppe on 1st September. Canadians fought with British soldiers in the freeing of the Scheldt Estuary and success here enabled the first Allied convoy to arrive in Antwerp in November 1944.

Contributions on Land
Some Canadian units played a prominent part in the liberation of the Netherlands while others went on to participate in the Battle of Germany. In February 1945 the Canadian First Army attacked in the Reichswald Forest, and helped drive the Germans back across the Rhine; the German forces surrendered to General Montgomery on Luneburg Heath on 5th May 1945. From D-Day to VE Day 12,500 Canadians died.

Contributions on the Sea
During the 1939-1945 War the Royal Canadian Navy (RCN) grew to a strength of nearly 100,000 personnel and nearly 400 vessels. Their main duty was to act as convoy escorts across the Atlantic, in the Mediterranean and to Murmansk in the USSR. They also hunted submarines, and supported amphibious landings in Sicily, Italy and Normandy. In all the RCN lost nearly 2,000 sailors.

Contributions in the Air
Although a major task of the Royal Canadian Air Force (RCAF) based at home was the hunting of U-Boats in the North Atlantic, its most important area of operations was Europe, where 48 Canadian squadrons served. The scale of their contribution was recognized on 1st January 1943 by the formation of No. 6 Group, an RCAF formation within Bomber Command. Canadian airmen fought in the Battle of Britain, North Africa, Italy and the Normandy invasion. About 17,000 died, the great majority while serving with Bomber Command.

pg

That's what happens when the military becomes politically correct and goes co-ed in boot camp. You know, the Marines are the only service that told them where to get off and still has seperate boot camps. WTF is a battle buddy? No, don't tell me, I don't want to know. Drill Sgt's vacation??? God bless our troops and those navy guys too. Semper Fi.

You are pathetic. You can't even make it through boot camp and yet you dare to call someone else your "Battle Buddy"? Get a grip. Actually see the world explode around you with enemy or freindly fire and get back to me on that. You have no purpose obviously being in any military(maybe Canada will take you), and you are getting tossed because of your knees? What's up with that? Are they too flat from kneeling too much? I presume you were degraded with catcalls and slurs for a good reason. And what is the deal with having a room in boot camp? What happened to squad bays? Good lord! This country is doomed if we are to rely on this generation to defend it. You are amazed by double standards in the Army? Wake up little girl! For nearly everthing that happens in life, it the male that gets screwed over, not the female. It's nice to know that in boot camp you got to actually have some sort of relationship with the opposite sex. When I went to Parris Island, the women were not even seen, much less used for gratification. Maybe this is just an Army problem. Maybe we just need Marines...they seem to NOT have the problems the other branches do.

You are pathetic. You can't even make it through boot camp and yet you dare to call someone else your "Battle Buddy"? Get a grip. Actually see the world explode around you with enemy or freindly fire and get back to me on that. You have no purpose obviously being in any military(maybe Canada will take you), and you are getting tossed because of your knees? What's up with that? Are they too flat from kneeling too much? I presume you were degraded with catcalls and slurs for a good reason. And what is the deal with having a room in boot camp? What happened to squad bays? Good lord! This country is doomed if we are to rely on this generation to defend it. You are amazed by double standards in the Army? Wake up little girl! For nearly everthing that happens in life, it the male that gets screwed over, not the female. It's nice to know that in boot camp you got to actually have some sort of relationship with the opposite sex. When I went to Parris Island, the women were not even seen, much less used for gratification. Maybe this is just an Army problem. Maybe we just need Marines...they seem to NOT have the problems the other branches do.

You are pathetic. You can't even make it through boot camp and yet you dare to call someone else your "Battle Buddy"? Get a grip. Actually see the world explode around you with enemy or freindly fire and get back to me on that. You have no purpose obviously being in any military(maybe Canada will take you), and you are getting tossed because of your knees? What's up with that? Are they too flat from kneeling too much? I presume you were degraded with catcalls and slurs for a good reason. And what is the deal with having a room in boot camp? What happened to squad bays? Good lord! This country is doomed if we are to rely on this generation to defend it. You are amazed by double standards in the Army? Wake up little girl! For nearly everthing that happens in life, it the male that gets screwed over, not the female. It's nice to know that in boot camp you got to actually have some sort of relationship with the opposite sex. When I went to Parris Island, the women were not even seen, much less used for gratification. Maybe this is just an Army problem. Maybe we just need Marines...they seem to NOT have the problems the other branches do.