Complaint Review: US Bank

Far be it for me to take up for the bank, but people, you have to read that terms and conditions booklet. Also, do not go by the account balance, go by the available balance. It's not rocket science.

I have a feeling that Mr. USBank-SUCKS! is going to have a rude awakening when he finds out what Bank of the West's overdraft and deposit policies are :-))

The folks on this site have tried to explain (very succinctly, I might add) why his current accounting methods did not work at US Bank (and will not work at any other bank), but he seems blinded by his anger at the bank. I have a feeling that we'll be seeing him again.

If that's all it's good for, they should simply post whether a deposit went through or not and not bother showing transactions as that is inaccurate and only serves to mislead people.

I use the balance to confirm that my direct deposit came in or that a particular check/debit has hard posted. That may not be a good reason to you but it works for me.

Perhaps online BANKING is useful, "Edgeman", but an online BALANCE is not. I see what you're saying, but if the online balance system is not accurate, it is only designed to deceive, plain and simple. I can find no other reason for it. If you can give me a good reason for it's existence, I'd be glad to hear it. Keep in mind, I'm not talking about money transfers, bill pay or anything else. I'm speaking only of the balance.

I stand by what I said earlier - US Bank sucks! It's funny to read all the responses in defense of this unethical bank. The attitude and mentality that I have seen on this site is the same attitude and mentality I have had to deal with on the phone and in person at this awful bank. It's never the banks fault, it's the customers. I have used a debit card every single day for the past five years and NEVER had a problem - EVER!

I am very pleased to say I am no longer with this bank. I am now with Bank of the West and am very pleased with them. Your lies have not gone unnoticed. Not all banks do the same thing. I think it is tragic that a bank who makes bad loans and bad business decisions; who rapes and pillages their customers; who feel they are very entitled, need a bailout from the very customers tax money that they steal from.

I have made it my personal mission to tell everone I see and talk to about the idiot fat-cat bankers at US Bank. Thanks to Chris for his candid remarks to the defenders of that ####-hole of a bank.

Every week I stop at my preferred Chevron to fill up my gas tank. Since I pay at the pump, the station puts a hold of $1 against my account.

My last purchase was over $32. If I were to log into my online account and look up my balance, I'd see a total of $31 over what my balance actually is. The bank has no idea how much I spent at the gas station until the merchant gets around to submitting the charge. That could take days.

Every month my vehicle insurance premium is automatically debited from my account. They send me an email to let me know on what date they will make the request but I never see this transaction until it is posted. Going by the online balance I would be led to believe that my balance is higher than it actually is.

Sometimes I make large purchases with my Paypal debit card to get that additional 1% cash back. The any money in my Paypal account is used first and then the rest is debited from my checking account. However, I don't see this debit until it is actually posted. Once again, if I used my online banking tool to look up my balance I would think that I had a higher balance than I actually did.

Each of the above scenarios can be handled via check register. That way I know what my account balance is and won't have to wait for the merchants to submit the actual charges.

Don't get me wrong, I find online banking useful. If my spending is lower than I thought it would be, I can quickly transfer the extra money into savings. I also keep an eye on it for fraudulent transactions and I use online banking at my credit union to make my credit card payments. It's just that online banking was never intended to replace a check register.

"To answer Chris's question as to why a check register is important. The bank does not know about the check you wrote yesterday for $100. The amount that you see online only reflects the charges that have cleared. You must then deduct the amounts of all of the other purchases you have made that have not posted yet, and that will be your available balance. Floating money does not work anymore. That is why there are so many reports from people complaining that the bank charged them money for overdrafting their accounts."

Not once did I deny that a check register is important. I realize that the bank doesn't know about checks you wrote. The problem is even debits and atm withdrawls aren't accurately accounted for on the online or atm balance. There's no excuse for this. I also didn't say floating checks would or should work anymore.

(The first section is in response solely to the Original Post)

"I was a US Bank customer for over 2 years without EVER having a negative balance on my checking accounts (business and personal). "
-
Thank you for being a customer, we do value you as a customer! Every customer helps make the bank a stronger and safer bank, and we are working to build to the strongest bank in America!
-
"Then, one of my accounts became negative because they 'held' a deposit. So I transferred funds from the business to the personal account. I looked at the balance - stared right at it on my computer - and both accounts had a positive balance. "
-
As very clearly indicated in our deposit account agreement, on your receipt after the deposit is made, and on the teller windows, deposits may not be available immediately for use. *Generally* you will receive $100 instantly and the rest is held until the day following the business day of the deposit. This practice is not new (especially for US Bank) and if you have banked with us for over two years something you should have come to expect.
-
"I drove to work, checked my balance and one account was now negative!!??!! The bank back-charged me overdraft fees! That was the start of a HUGE mess."
-
US Bank does not charge overdraft fees until business hours on a business day, so if you overdraft with Monday's processing you would not see the fees until Tuesday after at least 9am, in some instances it can take several hours to process all of the overdraft charges onto accounts so it may be later then that.
-
"I continued depositing, only to be charged for another day's worth of overdrafts. After 1 week, US Bank went through $1,200 worth of my money - applying it ALL TO FEES."
-
You originally stated that you had "never overdrawn" your account before, so taking into account that our overdraft fee structure starts at $19 per overdraft item on the first occasion, 35 per overdraft item on the second and third occasion, and 37.50 on the fourth occasion and beyond and we also charge $8 per day on overdrafts past calendar days getting $1200 in fees is not possible. If I used a "worst case" situation you would go overdrawn with Friday's processing (causing your first $8 fee to charge Monday) you would have received at most $1024 if this was your first time going overdrawn, now if this was not your first time and we continued to use the "worst case" situation you would have received up to $1165 in fees, which is much closer to $1200 but also indicates that you had overdrawn previously.
-
"I spoke with the rep who opened my account and he refused to refund any fees, stating it 'was not bank error.' I spoke with his boss and got the same well-rehearsed 'not bank error' excuse."
-
The bank is not required to waive fees because in the situation you described there is no "bank error" and that the fees were charged because funds were used when they were not available for use.
-
"So I demanded both my accounts be closed. As I delved deeper into this, I noticed they have a way of posting that totally benefits US Bank and is lousy for the consumer. They hold deposits up, run debits through and charge OD fees. The OD fees continue for days and then they have the nerve to charge a continuous negative balance fee! Of course it's a negative balance - you made it that way!!"
-
Once again, you did agree to these terms and conditions, we do hold deposits as we have disclosed to you and if you have debits lined up they may go through, the best thing to do is make sure that the funds are available before using them (by comparing your ledger of items yet to clear with the banks information).
-
"I found that not only did they want my tax dollars for their fat-cat bailout, but it appears they also want the money I was taxed on too. It's just never enough. "
-
I'm very happy to inform you that our "fat-cat bailout" has been payed back and we no longer owe any TARP funds to the U.S. Government!
-
"I do not know how people can work for and or do business with this kind of company. Where I come from rapists and thieves go to prison! The truely sad part is our elected officials are aware of what they are doing and since there aren't any audiences or television cameras to grandstand with, they turn a blind eye and a deaf ear.

Where is the justice? What have we let our society to become? Our country has gone from capitalism and free enterprise, to screw the consumer and screw you."
-
This last part here is very important because in a capitalist and free enterprise system, you as the consumer have the power to control which companies live and which companies do not, which policies work and which do not. This is done by your ability to chose the business that works best for you, but this also has responsibility's such as fully understanding the terms and conditions which you have agreed to with the company you are choosing to do business with. You also seem to argue that capitalism along with free enterprise is good but then also ask for government intervention, though I will say, closing your accounts because your unhappy with the services you are getting is the most important thing you can do as a consumer!
*************************************************************************************************************************************************************
(The following is responses to "follow up" from the author or other comments)

In response to the update by author ("US Bank-SUCKS"): We at US Bank would never prevent an employee as posting as such and we believe that our service history lives up to that, we take pride in our policies and we do take them to review them and if needed make alterations, we would never "pose" as an non-employee because there is no reason to, we stand by our service and polices. "Robert" is not an employee of the bank as far as I'm aware and I show no reason to doubt him just because he is arguing that our polices are fair and that there could have been some kind of misunderstanding of some sort.

On another note if there is any fee that is almost 100% avoidable it is an Overdraft, our policies are very clear regarding holding deposits, it is not new, and has not changed in some time.
-
In response to Chris: If I had my way I personally would remove the balances from Internet Banking, the Phone automated system and the ATM's to do anything to get people back to using a Ledger! We at US Bank advise all of our 24 Hour Bankers and Branch Bankers to advise customers to use a ledger whenever it is brought up that a customer is not using one or when opening a new account, it is even in the Deposit Account Agreement that we expect you to do this (just as we expect you to review your statements).

The rational behind this is that people don't keep proper track and the bank should assist and we do attempt to keep track of this for consumers but I will admit that the phrasing "available balance" that is used commonly in banking is misleading. Internet Banking, phone automated systems, or any other way of getting your balance from the bank should be used only as tool. If you keep a proper ledger then using these tools can be great, I find it great to be able to sit down in the evening to be able to check things off my register each day using internet banking, but the balance that's above I can clearly see is wrong because I use the ledger.

Very simply using a debit card, checks, etc is all very manageable, some people make due without a check register or some people have found alternative computer programs like Quicken that allow them to enter in additional transactions that have not yet posted causing them to have a more accurate balance.

The largest problems with the "available balance" system is due to three simple facts. We do not have the ability to see the vast majority checks until they have posted, some debit card transactions "authorize" for the wrong amount (such as gas stations holding $1 until posting, or restaurants only authorizing the bill without the tip) and Visa authorizations only hold for three business days before they "drop off" or stop being held against your available balance. It does not have to be a full time job, but only the customer making the charges will in some situations know what the accurate amount of the charges or are, all of the "main" problems I listed could be avoided by simply using a Ledger.

We are working to try and work towards resolving some of the issues with the "available balance" system, for example, working with Visa a new system has been devised for gas stations so that after the customer is finished pumping an "updated" authorization is sent to the banks so the the correct amount is debited (though this only works on new POS terminals) and the bank has worked on creating "Debit Card Registers" which are much smaller ledgers that can hold your Visa check card in them and the ledger itself can generally fit inside of a wallet, this is primarily targeting younger people who seem to be "anti ledgers".

You are also correct in saying that "not all banks" are the same, some banks (particularly smaller ones) have yet to change over to a system where POS authorizations are held against the balance and many of these same smaller banks also tend to not hold deposits. Though I will accurately say that no bank keeps perfect "available balance" primarily due to lack of the proper tools to do so, some banks do not use this system. A former bank (WaMu) did not use a "true" avail. balance, they did have the system implimented in some ways, but WaMu rarely held deposits and did not hold most Visa Authorizations against the account, which many customers found to be a fantastic system but also WaMu lacked the ablility to look into pending auths, causing some people to feel "suprised" when a transactions posted, so both systems lack perfection. Though I would like to indicate theat Chase is changing WaMu into a "true" available balance and begining to hold deposits.

Thanks,
Rob with USB
"All of us Serving You!"

To answer Chris's question as to why a check register is important. The bank does not know about the check you wrote yesterday for $100. The amount that you see online only reflects the charges that have cleared. You must then deduct the amounts of all of the other purchases you have made that have not posted yet, and that will be your available balance. Floating money does not work anymore. That is why there are so many reports from people complaining that the bank charged them money for overdrafting their accounts.

To answer Chris's question as to why a check register is important. The bank does not know about the check you wrote yesterday for $100. The amount that you see online only reflects the charges that have cleared. You must then deduct the amounts of all of the other purchases you have made that have not posted yet, and that will be your available balance. Floating money does not work anymore. That is why there are so many reports from people complaining that the bank charged them money for overdrafting their accounts.

To answer Chris's question as to why a check register is important. The bank does not know about the check you wrote yesterday for $100. The amount that you see online only reflects the charges that have cleared. You must then deduct the amounts of all of the other purchases you have made that have not posted yet, and that will be your available balance. Floating money does not work anymore. That is why there are so many reports from people complaining that the bank charged them money for overdrafting their accounts.

To answer Chris's question as to why a check register is important. The bank does not know about the check you wrote yesterday for $100. The amount that you see online only reflects the charges that have cleared. You must then deduct the amounts of all of the other purchases you have made that have not posted yet, and that will be your available balance. Floating money does not work anymore. That is why there are so many reports from people complaining that the bank charged them money for overdrafting their accounts.

"The failure to use a check register is the most egregious of the mismanagement you perpetrated upon yourself. Let's be clear - this is not the bank's fault; this one is on you."

This is the crap that p*sses me off. If the online balance is meaningless, then it shouldn't exist, bottom line. Why does it exist if it's useless?

"You don't have a clue as to what's your balance. If you think US Bank sucks, I invite you to go to any other bank; BofA, Chase, etc...any of them. They're all the same. They all work the same way."

Two things: If the balances reflected by the web and by the ATM machines don't reflect the actual available balance, then what is the point of them even existing? Also, not all banks work that way. I've belonged to several bank that behave differently.

"Debit cards only exascerbate your situation because you don't know what your balance is. When you don't know what the deal is with your account, using a debit card is sort of like playing Russian Roulette with your money and your head.

Stay away from the online system, stop using a debit card, and keep a check register. If you do all of these things, you'll never overdraw again - even at this bank. Best of luck to you."

I honestly don't know what to say anymore. We have to make it a full time job to protect ourselves from the unethical activities of the bank and that's our fault? We shouldn't have to stop using the online system, we shouldn't have to stop using a debit card and we shouldn't have to stop using cash, for God's sake. This is insane. It's not our responsibility to make it our priority to prevent the bank from screwing us.

Nobody here defends a bank - let's make no mistake about that. This is more educational than anything else. So to begin with, you did three really stupid things to manage your money:

1. You use a debit card without really tracking its use
2. You fail to use a check register
3. You rely on an online system which is NOT intended for anyone to check balances in your account.

The failure to use a check register is the most egregious of the mismanagement you perpetrated upon yourself. Let's be clear - this is not the bank's fault; this one is on you. When you indicate what the balance in your account is, it isn't really the balance in your account. The truth is - you don't KNOW what the balance in your account is. That balance is in your check register and if you don't keep one, you're lost. You don't have a clue as to what's your balance. If you think US Bank sucks, I invite you to go to any other bank; BofA, Chase, etc...any of them. They're all the same. They all work the same way. If you don't believe - again, I invite you to look at any and all the ROR reports filed for these banks; many filings are the same as yours. In other words, what happened to you here will happen to you at the next bank, and the next one, and the next one. Banks are basic services for the common person, so the differences between them are irrelevant to the average customer.

Debit cards only exascerbate your situation because you don't know what your balance is. When you don't know what the deal is with your account, using a debit card is sort of like playing Russian Roulette with your money and your head.

Stay away from the online system, stop using a debit card, and keep a check register. If you do all of these things, you'll never overdraw again - even at this bank. Best of luck to you.

Nice try on your defense of the bank. I've noticed that with most of the complaints against US Bank, there is a consumer comment that belittles, dimisses or minimizes the complaintant. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that these people are associated with, or employed by US Bank. By the time the complaint gets to this forum, it is too late for damage control. What does that tell you about a company that knows they are screwing the consumer and instead of changing policy, they stick people on these kinds of sites pretending they are happy and satisfied customers.

Happy and satisfied customers do not go to ripoffreport.com looking to compliment and defend thievery. They come to this site to see if other people are experiencing the same difficulties and injustice.

I have never before, with any bank, had the problems I have had with US Bank. Their attitude and sense of entitlement makes me sick! I sincerely wonder how you can sleep at night and look yourself in the mirror in the morning. You sneaky Bastards aren't fooling anyone.

I stand by my assertion, US Bank sucks!

When did you make the Deposit?

What was the Deposit(Check, Cash...)

How long did they "Hold" the funds for.

Now, $1200 in Overdraft fees in a week is about 30 overdrafts that is about 4-5 A DAY. You didn't say, but it sounds like you were making deposits and not letting the deposit POST before you used your Debit Card again. Doing this is a guaranteed way to continue to Overdraft, and it does not matter what bank you are with. The best thing you can do in this case is DO NOT take any money out of your account once you overdraft until you are 100% positive that all debits and credits have been POSTED.