Complaint Review: VISIONALTEL-EPICLEAR

Keith - you seem to have perspective on the product, and a relatively comprehensive grasp of its functionality - although I'm not sure if that's as a user or as a surreptitiously placed company spokesman. Regardless, your comments are valid, but the slant you attempt to put on the consumers in this forum and their interactions with Epiclear is somewhat distorted.

I wasn't even going to respond until you trivialized the customer service aspect of this company. All along I've said as you have - the product may work, but I'm not sure as I don't think I tried it long enough. And, since you mention that point - my breakout was simply too severe to allow to worsen before it got better.

Now, lets be clear on one thing - interactions may vary from rep to rep, but I can tell you with certainty - they are militantly trained in aggressive sales. But - my issue is that it went well beyond aggressive into fraudulent once they repeatedly refused to honor my requests to not have additional info shipped to me, and to not have additional product shipped to me. Your casual assessment of how people can have a good interaction with Epiclear is technically accurate, but entirely off-base. You're right - IF a customer doesn't listen or is rude, their interaction may be sub-par (however it's the company's job to ensure a positive interaction regardless of customer behavior - ever hear of 'the customer's always right'?). But that's a distracting point, because your phraseology leaves the reader with the impression we were rude in our interactions, which in my case, is quite to the contrary. I was nothing but cordial, and in fact, was probably too tolerant before I finally asked for a supervisor. The issue was NOT with listening to the salesperson - it was with the salesperson listening to ME. I am vp of marketing for a major corporation, so I know boilerplate scripting and boilerroom tactics when I hear them - and this is a boilerroom. When you have a customer 'service' rep. who refuses to honor a customer's request repeatedly, a supervisor who rationalizes her behavior, and a rep. at a separate number they force you to call for cancellation who tells you he won't record your request because the order hasn't been received yet, THAT'S A BOILERROOM.

You're in no position to say 'no one has it right' - I can tell you with absolute certainty, if you read my assessment of the company and the detail of my interactions, I have it entirely right - anything I wasn't sure of, I clearly expressed. The only people who've posted on here who are partly to blame are those who didn't pay attention to the automatic shipment aspect of Epiclear - they were told, but missed that part and got mad afterwards; and those who criticize the product but didn't use it as long as they probably should have. In fairness though, the salespeople read through their boilerplate so quickly, many consumers would not catch it - unless they were expecting it as I was.

You have a good perspective on Iraq - but this forum is not for perspective - it's about giving consumers a voice to alert other consumers of wrongdoing. And, since you brought up iraq, none of this would have happened if we simply would have adopted Chuck Yeager's philosophy on the middle-east 'nuke 'em 'till the sand turns to glass'.

In closing, I would like to let readers of this forum know what has finally worked for me - I went to a doctor and got a prescription for doxycycline - 100mg - I take twice daily, and it's cleared everything up - you should see results within two days - it's amazing. I'm not big on taking drugs though - it's a 1-month deal, and after that, I'm going to try stopping the drugs and continuing with basic skin care. Also - I would recommend a book (I mentioned it in my last posting, but actually remembered the title this time) - 'The Perricone Prescription' - it's written by a well respected physician, and is a best seller - it will give you quite a bit of insight into how what we eat affects us, as well as some supplements which I also previously mentioned - YOU WILL BE SURPRISED at what you thought was good for you vs. what really is good for you.

Alright, this was amusing for a while, but now it's time to weigh in. Mark...you're obviously a very smart guy...I wish you had tried Epiclear for a month...as directed...I bet you would have liked it. Katie...you've got spunk, but, DARN! Can't you have someone proofread before you post?

Fact: The Company uses aggressive sales tactics in general.

Fact: Your experience when ordering depends on the "luck of the draw," or who picks up your call.

Fact: Epiclear worked just fine in the original German formulation (they're smarter than we are, you know)

Fact: The FDA insisted that The Company either ADD an approved drug, or APPLY for new drug status. Guess which one does not take five years?

FAct: Epiclear was clinically tested, by an independent laboratory, IN BOTH FORMULATIONS. It worked both times.

Fact: It won't work for everyone.

Fact: I'm getting tired of typing "Fact:".

Fact: People will not have a good experience with Epiclear if they 1) are not respectful or pleasant on the phone, 2) don't listen to the salesperson, or 3) aren't good auditory learners or don't understand verbal communication well.

And while we spend our time bickering over who-said-what and what-salespeople-are-idiots and they-stole-my-twelve-dollars and where-did-we-lie, we have lost over 100 soldiers in Iraq this month. Let's put this in perspective, people.

I just noticed the last thing Katie said about 'why would we spend thousands of dollars on advertising if our product didn't work'- are you KIDDING? If anyone 'believes anything they read' it must be her. First, she criticizes people who read this forum as believing anything they read if they act on what they see, and then she turns around and says 'hey, we're advertising on t.v. and newspapers, so you should believe us'.

What kills me is her final sentence where she says 'and see, I show you, Epiclear does work' - There's a word for accusing people of one thing (ie believing anything they read if they act on things they read on this website) and then endorsing exactly the same type of behavior yourself (ie - 'hey, we advertise, so you should believe our product is legitimate')- it's called HYPOCRISY. This is such a dumb statement I'm hesitant to answer it, but, the REASON a company spends money on a product that doesn't work is because ADVERTISING SELLS, regardless of how good a product is.

There are plenty of crappy products being advertised and sold. A prime example is Avocor, which dupes millions of men into thinking it will grow hair - well, it does help, but...the reason it works is that it added minoxidil (aka, rogaine). Minoxidil is pretty cheap if you buy the generic versions rather than Rogaine. And, even if you buy Rogaine, it's still much cheaper than Avocor. So there's a prime example of someone selling something that does work in new packaging (they even use the chemical name rather than minoxidil so consumers won't catch on) and treating it as some revolutionary product.

Another example was the national case of the guy who was selling that 'male-enhancement' concoction - this made national news, so many of you may have heard of it. Turns out, it was bunk - but hey - according to what Katie said exactly, because he spent thousands on newspaper and tv, that must have been proof that the product worked right?

Hello - it's me again - you will see 2 or 3 of my e-mails above, including the FDA posting. First off, you will notice the 2 rebuttals to the various complaints came from Eliot Maine and are apparently employee damage control (which is fine, and perfectly legitimate).

What I find most amusing is how the 2nd response from 'Katie' conveniently ignored the big issue here which is there horrific sales approach. She essentially restated what I already said - yes indeed, we know they're going to automatically ship extra crap - but, it's their militant refusal to take no for an answer - regardless of whether we, the CUSTOMER, want the stuff in the first place. Yes, they disclose in their boilerplate scripting what will happen with automatic shipments - THAT'S NOT THE PROBLEM! The problem is in their fraudulent refusal to allow the caller to simply say 'hey - don't send me those automatic shipments, or those additional offers'.

That issue was largely brushed over, and she mainly responded to my posting of the FDA letter - well, what's REALLY interesting about her response is that it's essentially saying 'yup, you're right, the letter was right, we were illegally selling something and had to change the formula to be in compliance with the law'. And, what THAT tells you is, if we could have got away with selling something as an acne treatment that is not FDA approved, we would have continued to do so, because we obviously didn't do the necessary legal due-diligence before distributing our product.

Don't you wonder if the product ever worked in before they added a basic LEGITIMATE acne medication? Sure, now they added salicylic acid, but what about BEFORE - it could be that we're just buying a salicylic acid spray and that none of the added ingredients make a d**n bit of difference - in which case, why not just go out and buy a bottle of Nutragena face wash with salicylic acid for 6 bucks? I'm curious too because they tout their clinical results, which, to their credit, were done by an independent lab - BUT - were these results based on their old ILLEGAL formula (which would be better, because that would tell you that the other ingredients DO make a difference) - OR - were the test results from AFTER they added salicylic acid - which basically tells you what the FDA already says - salicylic acid is a legitimate treatment for acne. I'm not saying the product doesn't work, because as another consumer experienced, my face actually got worse, and I wasn't in the frame of mind to continue to use it. But - I am leery whenever some company touts a pseudo-clinical term like 'liposomal technology' - do they even know what the hell liposomes are? Next time one of their reps blabs that catch phrase, ask them to elaborate on the clinical methodology behind it and see what kind of answer you get. The people you are dealing with are mindless telemarketers who are following STRICTLY designed and mandated scripts.

Furthermore, be suspicious of how Katie arbitrarily discounted people who read these reports and act on them as 'people who will believe anything'. To the contrary, people who read these reports are intelligent enough to not blanketly believe marketing promotions, and more importantly, the people who WRITE them, are largely decent people expressing their HONEST opinions about the product and their experiences with the company.

In closing, I would like to add that I did receive a call from a customer service supervisor about my multiple complaints (after 2 or 3 weeks because they apparently had a problem with their e-mail system), and she was gracious and accomodating. However, I am certain the customer service practices I elaborated on above in my previous letters continue as we speak.

As for the product, it would not be fair for me to say how well it works, since I didn't give it a long enough timeframe. I have restarted proactiv, and am seeing better results.

ps - as anyone reading this is no doubt affected by acne, i just bought a book that seems very helpful - don't remember the title exactly, but it's something like 'Dr. so and so's 28-day guide to a clear face and better body' (it was a NY Times bestseller, so should be easy to locate). What I gleaned from it was that aside from diet (which is VERY interesting), finding a face cream with DMAE and Alpah Lipoic Acid, as well as Vitamin C syrum is apparently very effective - I found one at GNC pretty cheap and am now trying it in conjunction with my ProActiv.

In response to the complaint about the FDA letter, I would like to state that there are certain ingredients that the FDA only recognize as an acne fighting ingredients. Those ingredients are benzoyle preoxide and salicylic acid. If you now read the ingredients, it does include salicylic acid. After that ingredient was included, epiclear went through triple-blind placebo controlled studies and it came out clinicly proven. Also, since this product is commercialised on television we are under strict regulations of how the product is sold. We must make point to tell the consumer about the ENTIRE promotion, including the autoship, before the credit card information was obtained. That way the consumer can make their decision on receiving the first bottle knowing that, unless they cancel, they will receive more. Once the consumer agrees to these terms it becomes their responsibility to cancel or they will be charged when the next bottles are shipped. There also is a reminder in the package to call and cancel along with the customer service number. Keep in mind that these are regulations set by the FDA and if we did not comply, we would be out of business. About the testimonials, to be truthful, they are real. Yet again, according to regulations and standards that we have to follow, we are not allowed to sumbit any stories about the epiclear or tell consumers about personal experiences with the epiclear until they have undergone minor investigation. We are a legitimate company. If consumers read these reports and not try epiclear because what was said, then those consumers must believe anything. There are numerous reports on this website about sears, walmart, etc. I know that a few reports on those companies would not put them out of business. One more thing. If epiclear didn't work, why would we spend thousands and thousands of dollars on commercials in newspaper, radio, and TELEVISION! It would not be worth a penny spent if it didn't work. And so I show you, epiclear is a great product.

Please, anyone who reads this, do not order Epiclear if you don't want 6 more bottles sent to you! First of all, on their website it states that there is a 30 day return policy. Yet, according to Jennifer, you have 21 days to cancel your order. I don't want anymore of their stuff. It doesn't work anyway. How dare they force their products on people. So what if you don't call them to cancel by the time they say. I have been on hold with them trying to wait and speak to someone and would hang up in frustration because all I could hear is recording telling you to call back. If you don't want the product you should be able to return it no questions asked. Plus, why in the world do they send 6 bottles. Whatever happened to the customer is always right. I called Epiclear to complain about this policy and was literally told by the rep too bad!! I then wanted to talk to a supervisor or a manager, but the rep refused to listen to me. She just kept saying, "No, M'am." I was totally screaming at her because she refused my request. They must have something to hide. I hope they go out of business. I sent a letter to the attorney general to inform them of their underhanded tactits. I also looked them up on the Better Business Bureau website. They are not a member and they have had several complaints. This company bites!

You will see my posting above and the experience I had with ordering this product. Now, I have another horrible experience that has convinced me to NEVER do business with these people again. As I mentioned, they make you call a separate number to stop the shipment of extra stuff from automatically being charged to your card and sent. Well, I called today, the day after I ordered the product, and told them not to charge my card and that I didn't want it. The guy told me he couldn't honor my request until I had received it and then called in to cancel the rest. THIS IS ABSOLUTE FRAUD. Regardless of what they say, if you call in and tell them to not charge your card for an additional amount, they CANNOT tell you to call back later. STAY AWAY FROM THESE High-Pressure, telemarketing weasels, even if the product does work. Like I said, ProActive works too, and they're not nearly as obnoxious as these people.

Hi - I just found this posting - it's by the FDA(feel free to call and verify it's authenticity) - anyway - quite interesting - sounds like Epiclear was under some scrutiny previously - don't know what the outcome was.


Food and Drug Administration
New England District
One Montvale Avenue
Stoneham, Massachusetts 02180
(781) 596-7700
FAX (781) 596-7896

WARNING LETTER
NWE-19-02W

June 24, 2002
VIA FEDEX


Michael J. McNaboe, President
Vision Laboratories DBA
VisionTel Communications LLC
51 Dow Highway, Suite 11
Eliot, Maine 03903


Dear Mr. McNaboe:

This letter is written in reference to the marketing of "Epiclear Liposomal Facial Remedy" by your firm. The product labeling and promotional literature indicate that the product is for over-the-counter (OTC) treatment of acne. According to labeling and promotional literature, the product contains water, glycerol, phosphatidylcholine from natural lecithin, vitamin C, ethanol, vitamin E-acetate, menthol, vitamin A-palmitate, and chlorhexidine-salt as ingredients.

Your "Epiclear Liposomal Facial Remedy" package insert "INSTRUCTIONS FOR USE" states "For the first 3 days, spray epiclear onto affected area 4 to 5 times a day (use 8 times a day if you have large, red pimples), and rub liquid gently into skin with fingertips." Also, the package insert states "Continue using epiclear twice a day, every other day until blemishes have disappeared and skin has healed." Other promotional literature entitled "Epiclear Amazing new all-natural formula" for your product states "Do you suffer with acne or other skin irritations.. .I and "Unique and highly effective, epiclear is specially designed to penetrate deeply into your pores, unclogging and killing the bacteria that cause pimples, blackheads, whiteheads, and patches of redness."

Based on the intended uses established by the claims cited above, the product is a drug as defined in Section 201(g) of the Federal Food, Drug, and Cosmetic Act (the Act).

As labeled and promoted "Epiclear Liposomal Facial Remedy" is subject to the acne final regulations found in 21 CFR 333.301, 333.310, 333.320, and 333.350.

Although the active ingredients in this product are not specifically identified on the product label, labeling distributed with the product promote the ingredients in the formula for acne treatment. None of these ingredients are permitted as active ingredients under the regulations for OTC acne products. Because the labeling and formulation of "Epiclear Liposomal Facial Remedy" do not comply with the final regulations, your product is a "new drug" (Section 201 (p) of the Act) which may not be legally marketed in the United States without an approved New Drug Application (Section 505).

The product is misbranded (Sections 502(f)(l) and 502(f)(2) of the Act) for failure to comply with the final regulations covering topical acne products under 21 CFR Parts 333.301 with respect to directions- for use and required warnings.

You should take prompt action to correct these deviations. Failure to promptly correct these deviations may result in regulatory action without further notice. Possible actions include seizure and/or injunction.

Please notify this office in writing within fifteen (15) working days of receipt of this letter and the specific steps you have taken to correct the violations described above. If corrective action cannot be completed within fifteen (15) working days, state the reason for the delay and the time within which the corrections will be implemented.

You should direct your reply to Bruce R. Ota, Compliance Officer, at the address noted above. If you have any questions concerning this matter, please contact Mr. Ota at 781-596-7762.

Sincerely,

/s/

Gail T. Costello

I have yet to try the product - a friend suggested it to me because he thought their infomercial had some credibility. In reading this report, the rebuttal filed by the company employee was fairly articulate and detailed in its content, which gives me a little comfort that there is hopefully some legitimacy to the product.

HOWEVER - I just ordered the 'free' sample and was absolutely DISGUSTED with the sales lady I spoke with. The person who mentioned getting a bunch of stuff you didn't order was right. I KNEW they would use this ploy though, as that's what all infomercials do when offering 'free' stuff. So I listened very carefully - and sure enough - in the boilerplate script she rambled through, there it was - automatically send you stuff and bill your card. They don't let you tell them 'don't do that' on their order line - they force you to call a separate customer service number after the order and tell them not to send you anything automatically. That wasn't the worst part though - I was prepared for that.

They additionally send you out brochure/membership crap that you have to call in to cancel if you don't want it - for totally separate services. I literally told the lady FIVE times I DID NOT WANT ANYTHING ELSE SENT TO ME - her repeated response - "I understand you THINK you don't want it sir, but all I'm asking you to do is try it, and if you don't want it, simply call in and cancel."

How GODDAMN condescending! She used an age-old sales script designed to completely negate a customer's objection. One time I could have understood, but she literally would NOT honor my request. I finally told her to let me speak with a supervisor. He weaseled around her behavior saying how she was just trying to do her job and that a majority of the time, people are mad when they DON'T get the extra offers' - What a fricking LIE.

Bottom line, they do the same tactics most 'free' infomercials do, but with a ridiculously more militant approach. ProActive does the same thing, but not nearly so surreptitiously or obnoxiously. Their product seemed to work for me, but I ran out and thought I would give EpiClear a shot. We'll see how it works, but if I encounter the same crap again, I will NEVER order from them.

Also, as an aside, the 'testimonial' someone posted after that employee's response - be leery - these companies are notorious for putting in stuff like this to make it appear that a non-affiliated 'customer' used their product and really liked it - but look at the wording - very 'salesmany' for lack of a better word - I don't necesarily buy it.

Epiclear may not have cleared your acne, but thats exactly why we snd out a FREE bottle for our customers, NOTHING works for everyone guys. I take literally THOUSANDS of calls for epiclear myself (and I am just one of over 100 reps at vision labs) each week, over 60% of the people calling for epiclear have already tried proactiv, that is an amazing and truthful figure. I do honestly have a lot of customers tell me that it did work well, but that they didnt like the multiple (up to FIVE!) steps. Another comment I hear a lot is that it started working for a while, then stopped. The most common (and this is obviously why they are calling us), is that it didnt work FOR THEM. Vision Labs should certainly not be labeled as a "rip off" just because the product didnt work for you. Also, it is not uncommon at all for the acne to get worse before it gets better with epiclear, or any other acne treatment for that matter. It is frustrating, of course, but again, very common. The product goes deep in to the pores to bring all of the impurities UP and OUT, so, again, common for things to get worse before they get better. We certainly would not have been in business for as long as we have now if the product didnt work for the majority of the people who try it and use it as directed!! The results from this preoduct are AMAZING, and I guarantee, you're only going to start seeing it more and more...radio, newspaper, television theres actually a great article about it on Beststuff.com just go to the site and type in epiclear in the search box. Oh, and one last thing, Proactiv Solutions does not exactly have a perfect track record...they're on rip off report as well, so you obviously cant judge how well a product works by reading about it on websites like this, where obviously the SATISFIED customers wouldnt be posting their comments....

My girlfriends and I decided to order this product and see if it really works. We all have problem skin. Well, low and behold, It did not work. Not for any of us. As a matter of fact it made our skin worse. We all cancelled before the next shipment was to be sent out. Pro-Active Solutions DOES work. Wanted to let you all know to be careful if you try this product. I guarentee you will not like it and You need to cancel RIGHT AWAY! If you don't, you will be billed for an 85 day treatment which exceeds $164.00. Good luck!

Just out of curiosity sir, and not to be rude by any means, but how did the company (VISION LABS...not Visional Tel) lie to you exactly? We advertise a FREE bottle of epiclear, SHIPPING AND HANDLING NOT INCLUDED (meaning you cover the cost of the shipping and handling for the first bottle), other than that, the $60.00 bottle is FREE, just like it says in the advertisement, whether it was on the radio/newspaper or television. No lies anywhere so far....Yes, Epiclear DOES contain salicylic acid (0.5% to be exact). ANY over the counter acne treatment contains either salicylic acid OR benzoyl peroxide, it actually MUST contain either of the two for the FDA to allow it to be considered an "acne treatment". There are MANY differences between Epiclear and others that contain salicylic acid as the active ingredient. First of all, we spent hundreds of thousands of dollars for this product to undergo triple blind placebo controlled clinical trials to prove IT WORKS for MOST (NOTHING works for everyone) people IF USED AS DIRECTED. Secondly, Epiclear works much differently than clearasil by using liposome technology--basically tiny bubbles that carry the salicylic acid directly in to the pores rather than just sitting on the surface of the skin, which can irritate or dry out most any skin type. Epiclear also has moisturizing ingredients right in the product, it clears acne scars, as well as prevents future breakouts. It is also dye and fragrance free (clear and odorless, clearasil is not) and can be worn under makeup and/or sunscreen. MUCH different than clearasil, or ANY other over the counter acne treatment. As far as the 6 bottle supply that you got, again, NO LIES, that promotion is COMPLETELY explained during your initial call for the free bottle, if it is not, the sales rep is FIRED, and all calls are recorded and saved to ensure it IS EXPLAINED. Since you were kind enough to include your order # and info, I can( and will) go in to work tomorrow morning and listen to the initial call myself, I gaurantee it was explained, and agreed to. In fact, the company is so strict about it, the sales rep has to read this paragraph ENTIRELY VERBATIM befrore we can even take your credit card ( for the shipping $ for the free bottle) information: WHEN YOU DO SEE THE GREAT RESULTS FROM EPICLEAR, YOU SHOULD KEEP USING IT AS A MAINTNANCE TOOL TO HELP PREVENT FUTURE BREAKOUTS. BECAUSE WE KNOW YOU ARE GOING TO LOVE EPICLEAR, IN 21 DAYS WE WILL SEND 6 BOTTLES AT A DISCOUNTED RATE OF $164.90. THAT BREAKS DOWN TO LESS THAN $28 PER BOTTLE. THATS OVER OVR A 50% DISCOUNT. THIS WILL BE BILLED TO THE CARD YOU'RE USING TODAY UNDER THE NAME OF VISIONLABS AND EVERY 85 DAYS THEREAFTER UNLESS YOU CALL AND CANCEL. ALL INFORMATION ON THE PROMOTION WILL BE IN YOUR PACKAGE WHEN IT ARRIVES IN 7-10 BUSINESS DAYS. So, again, no lies. And, just like it says, the information DOES come IN WRITING in the package with the first bottle, along with the phone number to our customer care department which is where you would call to cancel ( or change it to a smaller supply) that shipment if you didnt want it, rather than waiting until you actually get the 6 bottles, getting mad that you didnt pay attention, and accusing the company of being a rip off. Im sure that your bank did refund the money to your card temporarily, however, I can tell you what will happen next. They will call us, we will pull the recording of the initial call made by you (or your wife?) proving that you (or she)DID agree to this, and also fax or mail them a copy of the invoice that comes with your first bottle explaining your next shipment, proving again that you had knowledge of this, and all the information you needed to just cancel the shipment before it came out. At that point, guess who is responsible for the charge? I truly dont mean to be rude, but it is extremely frustrating to see reports like this accusing us of being a rip off when we make every effort possible to ensure our customers know exactly how the promotion works, not just before the first phone call is over, but before we can even take down your credit card number. On top of that, you wouldnt believe how many people go through this process that you've described, and then (out of embarrassment Im sure) try to reorder the product a few weeks later under a a family member, or even at times a false name because the product DOES WORK. Always great for giggles on our end of this. I look forward to hearing the outcome of your troubles. Best wishes.

Just out of curiosity sir, and not to be rude by any means, but how did the company (VISION LABS...not Visional Tel) lie to you exactly? We advertise a FREE bottle of epiclear, SHIPPING AND HANDLING NOT INCLUDED (meaning you cover the cost of the shipping and handling for the first bottle), other than that, the $60.00 bottle is FREE, just like it says in the advertisement, whether it was on the radio/newspaper or television. No lies anywhere so far....Yes, Epiclear DOES contain salicylic acid (0.5% to be exact). ANY over the counter acne treatment contains either salicylic acid OR benzoyl peroxide, it actually MUST contain either of the two for the FDA to allow it to be considered an "acne treatment". There are MANY differences between Epiclear and others that contain salicylic acid as the active ingredient. First of all, we spent hundreds of thousands of dollars for this product to undergo triple blind placebo controlled clinical trials to prove IT WORKS for MOST (NOTHING works for everyone) people IF USED AS DIRECTED. Secondly, Epiclear works much differently than clearasil by using liposome technology--basically tiny bubbles that carry the salicylic acid directly in to the pores rather than just sitting on the surface of the skin, which can irritate or dry out most any skin type. Epiclear also has moisturizing ingredients right in the product, it clears acne scars, as well as prevents future breakouts. It is also dye and fragrance free (clear and odorless, clearasil is not) and can be worn under makeup and/or sunscreen. MUCH different than clearasil, or ANY other over the counter acne treatment. As far as the 6 bottle supply that you got, again, NO LIES, that promotion is COMPLETELY explained during your initial call for the free bottle, if it is not, the sales rep is FIRED, and all calls are recorded and saved to ensure it IS EXPLAINED. Since you were kind enough to include your order # and info, I can( and will) go in to work tomorrow morning and listen to the initial call myself, I gaurantee it was explained, and agreed to. In fact, the company is so strict about it, the sales rep has to read this paragraph ENTIRELY VERBATIM befrore we can even take your credit card ( for the shipping $ for the free bottle) information: WHEN YOU DO SEE THE GREAT RESULTS FROM EPICLEAR, YOU SHOULD KEEP USING IT AS A MAINTNANCE TOOL TO HELP PREVENT FUTURE BREAKOUTS. BECAUSE WE KNOW YOU ARE GOING TO LOVE EPICLEAR, IN 21 DAYS WE WILL SEND 6 BOTTLES AT A DISCOUNTED RATE OF $164.90. THAT BREAKS DOWN TO LESS THAN $28 PER BOTTLE. THATS OVER OVR A 50% DISCOUNT. THIS WILL BE BILLED TO THE CARD YOU'RE USING TODAY UNDER THE NAME OF VISIONLABS AND EVERY 85 DAYS THEREAFTER UNLESS YOU CALL AND CANCEL. ALL INFORMATION ON THE PROMOTION WILL BE IN YOUR PACKAGE WHEN IT ARRIVES IN 7-10 BUSINESS DAYS. So, again, no lies. And, just like it says, the information DOES come IN WRITING in the package with the first bottle, along with the phone number to our customer care department which is where you would call to cancel ( or change it to a smaller supply) that shipment if you didnt want it, rather than waiting until you actually get the 6 bottles, getting mad that you didnt pay attention, and accusing the company of being a rip off. Im sure that your bank did refund the money to your card temporarily, however, I can tell you what will happen next. They will call us, we will pull the recording of the initial call made by you (or your wife?) proving that you (or she)DID agree to this, and also fax or mail them a copy of the invoice that comes with your first bottle explaining your next shipment, proving again that you had knowledge of this, and all the information you needed to just cancel the shipment before it came out. At that point, guess who is responsible for the charge? I truly dont mean to be rude, but it is extremely frustrating to see reports like this accusing us of being a rip off when we make every effort possible to ensure our customers know exactly how the promotion works, not just before the first phone call is over, but before we can even take down your credit card number. On top of that, you wouldnt believe how many people go through this process that you've described, and then (out of embarrassment Im sure) try to reorder the product a few weeks later under a a family member, or even at times a false name because the product DOES WORK. Always great for giggles on our end of this. I look forward to hearing the outcome of your troubles. Best wishes.

Just out of curiosity sir, and not to be rude by any means, but how did the company (VISION LABS...not Visional Tel) lie to you exactly? We advertise a FREE bottle of epiclear, SHIPPING AND HANDLING NOT INCLUDED (meaning you cover the cost of the shipping and handling for the first bottle), other than that, the $60.00 bottle is FREE, just like it says in the advertisement, whether it was on the radio/newspaper or television. No lies anywhere so far....Yes, Epiclear DOES contain salicylic acid (0.5% to be exact). ANY over the counter acne treatment contains either salicylic acid OR benzoyl peroxide, it actually MUST contain either of the two for the FDA to allow it to be considered an "acne treatment". There are MANY differences between Epiclear and others that contain salicylic acid as the active ingredient. First of all, we spent hundreds of thousands of dollars for this product to undergo triple blind placebo controlled clinical trials to prove IT WORKS for MOST (NOTHING works for everyone) people IF USED AS DIRECTED. Secondly, Epiclear works much differently than clearasil by using liposome technology--basically tiny bubbles that carry the salicylic acid directly in to the pores rather than just sitting on the surface of the skin, which can irritate or dry out most any skin type. Epiclear also has moisturizing ingredients right in the product, it clears acne scars, as well as prevents future breakouts. It is also dye and fragrance free (clear and odorless, clearasil is not) and can be worn under makeup and/or sunscreen. MUCH different than clearasil, or ANY other over the counter acne treatment. As far as the 6 bottle supply that you got, again, NO LIES, that promotion is COMPLETELY explained during your initial call for the free bottle, if it is not, the sales rep is FIRED, and all calls are recorded and saved to ensure it IS EXPLAINED. Since you were kind enough to include your order # and info, I can( and will) go in to work tomorrow morning and listen to the initial call myself, I gaurantee it was explained, and agreed to. In fact, the company is so strict about it, the sales rep has to read this paragraph ENTIRELY VERBATIM befrore we can even take your credit card ( for the shipping $ for the free bottle) information: WHEN YOU DO SEE THE GREAT RESULTS FROM EPICLEAR, YOU SHOULD KEEP USING IT AS A MAINTNANCE TOOL TO HELP PREVENT FUTURE BREAKOUTS. BECAUSE WE KNOW YOU ARE GOING TO LOVE EPICLEAR, IN 21 DAYS WE WILL SEND 6 BOTTLES AT A DISCOUNTED RATE OF $164.90. THAT BREAKS DOWN TO LESS THAN $28 PER BOTTLE. THATS OVER OVR A 50% DISCOUNT. THIS WILL BE BILLED TO THE CARD YOU'RE USING TODAY UNDER THE NAME OF VISIONLABS AND EVERY 85 DAYS THEREAFTER UNLESS YOU CALL AND CANCEL. ALL INFORMATION ON THE PROMOTION WILL BE IN YOUR PACKAGE WHEN IT ARRIVES IN 7-10 BUSINESS DAYS. So, again, no lies. And, just like it says, the information DOES come IN WRITING in the package with the first bottle, along with the phone number to our customer care department which is where you would call to cancel ( or change it to a smaller supply) that shipment if you didnt want it, rather than waiting until you actually get the 6 bottles, getting mad that you didnt pay attention, and accusing the company of being a rip off. Im sure that your bank did refund the money to your card temporarily, however, I can tell you what will happen next. They will call us, we will pull the recording of the initial call made by you (or your wife?) proving that you (or she)DID agree to this, and also fax or mail them a copy of the invoice that comes with your first bottle explaining your next shipment, proving again that you had knowledge of this, and all the information you needed to just cancel the shipment before it came out. At that point, guess who is responsible for the charge? I truly dont mean to be rude, but it is extremely frustrating to see reports like this accusing us of being a rip off when we make every effort possible to ensure our customers know exactly how the promotion works, not just before the first phone call is over, but before we can even take down your credit card number. On top of that, you wouldnt believe how many people go through this process that you've described, and then (out of embarrassment Im sure) try to reorder the product a few weeks later under a a family member, or even at times a false name because the product DOES WORK. Always great for giggles on our end of this. I look forward to hearing the outcome of your troubles. Best wishes.