Complaint Review: Wells Fargo Overdraft Fees

a pile of cash that equals $1 Million.

Karl was supposed to get a picture of a beer mug with the words "Have a nice tall glass of STFU" on it.

For you...

according to two articles, which are available on the web.

Well this is an old post awaken from the dead. It was lodged late in 2006...The lawsuit commenced in 2007. The OP (Gail) mentions there should be a lawsuit. Looks like there was one..and the banks lost.  The OP is from California, and the current suit was for California..so the OP will be getting something back..and the bank is court ordered to stop the shenanigans. This order is the decision of the Court following a two-week bench trial. The 90 page order was held less then a week ago on Aug 10th, 2010.

Now while I will agree the customer is responsible to pay a fee if they overdrafted with a DEBIT CARD by carelessness, human error, irresponsibility etc..(unless the customer was enrolled into any overdraft protection or coverage services without fair or proper due disclosure), apparently it was not legal for the bank to use tactics to charge excessively, and they now have to pay it back.

The banks are not ordered to pay back any legitimate overdraft fees...only ones that were the result of the banks manipulations, which is perfectly fair. However this is going to be difficult to determine who gets what since the manipulations and check postings have been perverted in such a confusing and distorted way..even the banks themselves can not accurately decipher it by their records.

True the banks did not cause the overdraft..but used "systems" and manipulations with malice to unjustly rob customers..and this is very wrong. After all this is a bank..they have access to our savings/checking/direct deposits/right to offset/taxpayer bailouts/FDIC insured/had automatically enrolled customers into standard OD protection on the debit card and the customers did not know they could still use it when the account was depleted (although this particular tactic is no longer allowed in any state by any financial institution)..well they seem to have QUITE an advantage over the consumers rights, and of any other business I can think of as well...therefore should be held to higher standards. A bank is really a necessity for most people, not a luxury.

Well there is no reason for me to repeat everything in the courts order, which I was aware of everything in it well before this case was won by the plaintiffs..but I will post a link so anyone can read it. It is 90 pages but an easy read..many facts are repeated so you can skim through those.

A copy of the Court's order can be found here  <-----

This is mentioned in the order..but I feel the need to post it here. While I agree 100% that customers need to keep a register....there are considerations when using this to defend the banks slime bucket tactics.

1) A register if accurate, will show where a customer overdrafted..but will not tell the customer they are getting 9 or 10 fees instead of 1 as the register would clearly only show legitimate overdrafts.

2) Authorization holds placed by some merchants are done without the customers knowledge or consent. Same with an unauthorized charge or hold. That will not show up on anyones register or ledger, and can certainly lead to overdrafts.

3) The bank was listing transactions the way they saw fit to fleece customers due to an error, but the register will list chronologically..making it that much tougher to use the banks statements to find a mistake, or make heads or tails out of anything. Yet..go to any bank or any bank online..and you will notice they promote online banking as "a great way to manage the account". I think that sends the wrong message (misleading seems to be a personal fav of the banks)...well at least until all states order the banks to stop re-sequencing transactions and playing slot machine with our money. It is obvious the banks were targeting low balance account customers where a small mistake would allow the bank to clean them out. How thoughtful of them.

US District Judge William Allsup ruled that  Wells Fargo was unfair deceptive and fraudulent in it's practices.....$203 Million judgment against them...Finally someone in power sticking up for the little people..

OK, after reading all of the rebuttals I have more to add. If the reason for being OD was fraud than you are NOT liable for the charges. However, if you did not call to dispute the charges in a timely manner (i.e. actually balancing your checkbook by looking at your statement) it may be more difficult! If the banks are only out to charge you fees and take your money than why do they close your debit card if you have too many OD's? Decisions on pay or not to pay a charge that will overdraw a person is based on average balance, number of overdrafts, length of time the account has been opened and the entire relationship, to name a few.

There are many other ways to track your activity like e-mail alerts you customize yourself, 800 numbers that are manned 24/7. Sounds to me like you let the fraud go un-detected for too long and you also must have a history of overdraft activity. Also another thought, it does not matter how much your charge is that is overdrawing you, the charge is the same! So whether it is $5 or $50,000 it is still $34! They also pay larger items first because those items are more likely to me important things like your mortgage or car payment. Wouldn't it suck if they paid your fast food charge and returned your mortgage payment? Well then again that would just give everyone something else to complain about!

IF YOU DO NOT LIKE WELLS, go somewhere else, but I bet you will see the same stuff there. Easier yet, keep on top of your check book and statements, report any unauthorized activity promptly and you will be fine! Admit your mistake, whatever that may really be beneath all of the stories, and move on.

As far as the health conditions, my older sister is living with me rent free because she is ill and on morophine so I know what it is like. She has 0 income and still manages to keep her account positive! Hmmmmm, imagine that!

Oh, why don't you get some overdraft protection or use a CC to pay for your food and prescriptions when an emergency arises such as this? Oh yeah, you probably have handled your credit like you are handling your bank account!

As an employee as well as a long time customer it gets really old hearing about all of the complaints about overdraft fees. Bottom line is, do not spend it if you do not have it! Keep a check register and balance your checkbook. If you do not keep track of your balance and you overdraw, how can you blame anyone but yourself? My opinion is not even based on my loyalty to WF, because to be honest, that has nothing to do with it, I would leave tomorrow if the right offer came along. It does however, have to do with the plain and simple facts and the basic math we were all taught in school. Complaining about overdrawing when you are NOT tracking your balance is like blaming a train for running over you after you lay down on the tracks before it!

Also, in closing, if you think Wells is bad, there are many other banks out there that are worse. Their fees are a lot higher and their policies are a lot more strict!

'Question: when I make a debit card purchase (MasterCard) against my checking account when I check my balance at the ATM I see that my available balance has been adjusted for the amount of purchase. So, how can the bank even figure in hold amounts against your balance when they have already adjusted your balance to reflect the transactions??'

Answer: Welcome to the world of Debit Cards. In the past, when you only had checks, your checks would remain outstanding until the payee cashed the check, which allowed you as the writer to live on the float and even race to the bank to beat the check. No more. When you use the debit card, it's like writing the check and the bank knowing about it immediately until the merchant submits their information so they can get paid. The period between your use of the card and the merchant getting paid can range between 1-3 days. In this case, the debit charge is reserved and your account hit, but the money truly doesn't leave the account until the merchant makes their submission.

There is nothing creative about this; it is all pretty simple and straight forward. If you have a credit card, I encourage you to look at a statement - you'll see that the date of the charge, and the date the credit hits your account may have anywhere between a 1-3 day lapse between dates. Again, nothing creative. The difference is in the submission of the merchant's information - be it a credit card or a debit card is the lapse of time you're experiencing.



The OP indicates a classic fault with using debit cards when she says, "The five debits totaled $25.16. There was more than enough there to cover the total of $25.16." The OP runs a thin balance and when she uses a debit card for small purchases - this can happen. The OP needs to take the following steps:

1. Stop using debit cards for small purchases. If you can't - then just snip your card. This card is costing you more in fees than the convenience of having the card in the first place. Use cash for your small purchases and use the debit card for a transaction exceeding $25 (like grocery shoppping for the week, gasoline, or the like).

2. Keep a written record of your transactions. All of them, including your debits.

3. Understand that depositing money into a bank does not make funds available immediately. If you see 5 pending transactions, it should not be a sign to deposit money - it's way too late to stop the NSF fees. You know you should be depositing money when your written register indicates you need to deposit money.

4. Check your online balance ONLY for (1) fees, and (2) fraudulent transactions. You should not need your balance - as again, this should be on your written register of transactions.

I have had overdraft charges in the past against my checking account when I showed that I had enough money in the account to cover the charges that I had made.
When I would bring this to the banks attention they would go over my account and tell me that the reason for the account going negative was because of holds placed against the account from charge card purchases that I had made that haven't cleared yet.

Question: when I make a debit card purchase (MasterCard) against my checking account when I check my balance at the ATM I see that my available balance has been adjusted for the amount of purchase.

So, how can the bank even figure in hold amounts against your balance when they have already adjusted your balance to reflect the transactions??

I think that the creative accounting methods that the banks use is the problem.

I have found that when you just use checks and ATM withdrawals and keep up with your account balance your ok, 1+1=2

But, when you use the debit card (Visa or MasterCard) that's when the bank uses their creative accounting, with the holds on your account for the amount of charge transactions. That they already have adjusted your balance for. During that hold period of 3 to 4 days after you make a charge, that's when the banks get you with their creative accounting.

Everytime a customer gets an account at Wells Fargo they are given a disclosure which outlines all fees, cut off times, posting times etc... You signed the paper that said you had read and agreed to everything in the disclosure.

Wells Fargo cut off times vary depending on the location of the branch or ATM machine. If you are unclear as to a cut off time, they are posted online for you to see for no charge.

Posting time for Wells Fargo is between 5 and 8 a.m.. There is no posting done on Sunday or Monday morning, because the Federal Reserve is not open on these days.

At the close of business day on Friday, say for example 4 p.m., you have $50.00 in your account. The computers do not realize that you spend that money over the weekend, so everytime you use your card, the computer still thinks you have $50.00 in it.

The fact of the matter is the balance in your account is the the responsibility of the account holder(s), if your husband used the card without your knowledge then it is still the fault of the account holder(s), meaning the two of you.

As for the $2.00 fees, again...something that you agreed to, it's in the disclosure. If the issue that you are calling about cannot be handled through the automated system, then your phone calls are free. If you get charged for one of these calls, just call back and ask them to delete it.

Wells Fargo is a bank. It's not your accountant and it sure isn't your mother, take car e of your own business and stop trying to place blame where it doesn't belong.

I've had the same porblem with Wells Fargo. One time I had over 1000 bucks in overdraft fees and when my comission and paycheck came in, all but 300 bucks was gone! I was angry and upset to how can a bank to allow a consumer to keep withdrawing money from a checking account when it is in the negative. Other banks have limits, once you are overdrawn enough, check card items are declined and outstanding checks are returned. Wells Fargo charging me all these fees has caused me so much financial hardship and I was overdrawn by 1500 bucks, they close my account, but since I had fraudulant ATM / Check Card Activity, I am going to try to settle the closed accoutn debt.

I've had the same porblem with Wells Fargo. One time I had over 1000 bucks in overdraft fees and when my comission and paycheck came in, all but 300 bucks was gone! I was angry and upset to how can a bank to allow a consumer to keep withdrawing money from a checking account when it is in the negative. Other banks have limits, once you are overdrawn enough, check card items are declined and outstanding checks are returned. Wells Fargo charging me all these fees has caused me so much financial hardship and I was overdrawn by 1500 bucks, they close my account, but since I had fraudulant ATM / Check Card Activity, I am going to try to settle the closed accoutn debt.

I've had the same porblem with Wells Fargo. One time I had over 1000 bucks in overdraft fees and when my comission and paycheck came in, all but 300 bucks was gone! I was angry and upset to how can a bank to allow a consumer to keep withdrawing money from a checking account when it is in the negative. Other banks have limits, once you are overdrawn enough, check card items are declined and outstanding checks are returned. Wells Fargo charging me all these fees has caused me so much financial hardship and I was overdrawn by 1500 bucks, they close my account, but since I had fraudulant ATM / Check Card Activity, I am going to try to settle the closed accoutn debt.

I've had the same porblem with Wells Fargo. One time I had over 1000 bucks in overdraft fees and when my comission and paycheck came in, all but 300 bucks was gone! I was angry and upset to how can a bank to allow a consumer to keep withdrawing money from a checking account when it is in the negative. Other banks have limits, once you are overdrawn enough, check card items are declined and outstanding checks are returned. Wells Fargo charging me all these fees has caused me so much financial hardship and I was overdrawn by 1500 bucks, they close my account, but since I had fraudulant ATM / Check Card Activity, I am going to try to settle the closed accoutn debt.

"The problem is not bounching a check"

It's also the customer living above their head for the most part. Not always but 99%

"The problem is not bounching a check"

It's also the customer living above their head for the most part. Not always but 99%

"The problem is not bounching a check"

It's also the customer living above their head for the most part. Not always but 99%

"The problem is not bounching a check"

It's also the customer living above their head for the most part. Not always but 99%

Whoever here accusses the bank customers for not keeping an accurate register is missing the point... One balance error of a few dollars should not create an avalanche of overdraft fees. The problem is not bounching a check which the banks should do in the case of the overdraft but rather considering EVERY TRANSACTION for that day as an overdrawn item. Making a mistake in your register can easily throw you off a check for which I accept to pay but the ethical question is why all the checks for that day are subject to the $37 overdraft fee? I do not see where this is a cost to the other customers and not simply an opportunnity for the bank to pile the fees. Why not clear the checks that are covered and bounce the check that does not for which they can charge their NSF? That is what common sense would dictate.


My two cents...

Chris,

The point you are still missing is that people CHOOSE to pay NSF fees! They refuse to keep an accurate register, and refuse to be responsible and only spend money that is POSTED and AVAILABLE in the account at the time of the transaction.

In response to your comment to me re "wait until it happens to you"..
FYI..It will NEVER happen to me, as I keep an accurate register and do not spend money that is not in my account! I have had checking accounts for 30 years and have NEVER paid an NSF fee. NEVER.

The OP had over $1300 in NSF fees and admitted a pattern of having them and having to attempt to get them reversed. She blames some other company for causing it, but that would only be ONE NSF fee. [1 item=1 nsf fee].

Even at $35 each NSF fee, $1300 worth is 37 NSF fees!

And, to the person who stated that banking transactions in NV are real time, is totally wrong! I lived in Las Vegas and had 3 different checking accounts at 3 different banks and can guarantee that is not the case. And, my BofA account is STILL a NV account even though I live in FL.

The undisputable fact is, that if a person is responsible and maintains an ACCURATE checkbook register, they will NEVER pay an NSF fee. Guaranteed.

Banks do not create NSF fees. Customers do.

Gail,

If you deposited the funds after 3pm then the money was not credited until the next business day thus you did not have enough funds to cover any outstanding checks or debits.

There are signs that state "deposits made after 3pm will be credited on the next business day".

TIP: If you had gone to the instant cash machine and deposited those funds before 6pm this incident would not have occurred.

Good day,

Please note that Ms. Carolyn Maloney, a New York representative of the US house of representatives has stepped in and presented a bill to Congress, H.R. 3449. This bill outlines changes that will limit the impact that a bank will have to charge overdraft fees.

It is a true benefit to the consumer of banks as it will limit overdraft fees to a total of only 3 per Calender year. and will help those who are primarily poor, or barely able to survive without needing the banks taking money from hardworking Americans.

The current status of the bill is in a subcommittee, where it has remained for about 1.5 years. It is introduced but needs further research required from the Federal Reserve.

The way to speed our US house of representatives is to promote this bill through the media, and by writing your US Congress member. I have contacted both Barbara Boxer of the Senate, and Tom Lantos (14th district) of the House of Representatives. The bill also has 14 co-sponsors within the house.

To further assist you and many other people who have been charged overdraft fees, please email or write all members in your US Congressional district. If they find a trend of Americans emailing regarding this, they will be forced to act.

A copy of the bill can be viewed below:
responsiblelending.org/pdfs/2005_HR3449_maloney.pdf

Regards,

I don't keep a paper register (are you kidding!), but I do update the one on my computer. I'm actually on the computer often enough that this is easier...on Quicken, for instance you can update all of your accounts at once (with a few exceptions but most account services have that now). I usually enter stuff as I do it (like in a register), update frequently and always stay on top of it. Are you kidding, they'll screw you when they can - never know when some fee will appear or a deposit you made doesn't! It actually takes less than 5-10 minutes every few days and is SO much easier.

I also agree that cash is of course the best...I must confess, the reason I use the ATM card at the gas station is because I can do everything at the pump, not have to GO IN & WAIT BEHIND PEOPLE, etc. I guess it lessens the stress & makes it one less thing I have to do, so for me the trade-off is worth it. That's just one example of where it's actually worth it to some people. But yes, you'd think clerks would jump for joy at getting actual cash. But then they'd have to count change!

Would be maintaining a proper balance and result in overdraft fees of 0.

I find it utterly amazing that deadbeats that knowingly and willingly attempt to ripoff a bank are the first ones to cry ripoff when the bank legally hits them back.

If it weren't for the fees for deadbeats, the cost would just be spread around to the 99% of the customers that don't bounce checks or overdraw their accounts. And why should I have to subsidize the cost of your irresponsible behavior?

All the crap about how banks post is crap. If you maintain a proper balance, it's a non-issue.

If you don't like the fees, your free not to do business with that particular bank. However, you'll just have problems no matter where you go.

Went out shopping, to several different places this weekend and was treated like a freak. Do you want to know why? Because I pay cash. I get the strangest looks. I get the choice of credit or debit and I say neither and they look at me like I'm crazy when I hand them that strange green stuff called cash. All these banks have figured out all these different ways of screwing people out of their money. All these people who don't have any money to get gas or get their meds or anything else because they've allowed these banks to screw them over. You can't win. It's kind of like going to Vegas and saying I'm different, I'm gonna win, I guarantee. If you play the bank's game, you'll lose, so don't try. Banks absolutley hate customers like me cause I refuse to play their games. To all those folks, just think of how much money you'd have, if you hadn't been paying all those fees all these years.

My daughter got into the same trap with her first checking account. I just happened to see a notice from the credit union (yes, they do it, too) charging $20 apiece for 6 overdrawn ATM transactions in a two-day period. (I suspect that she knew she really didn't have the money and figured she'd take care of it later when she got paid.) Four of those 6 transactions were under $10! Now she sees that she actually paid, for instance, $23.69 for that $3.69 fast-food charge.

Seeing as how she's still somewhat irresponsible with money and unaccustomed to the way banks hit you with NSF fees every chance they get, I called to inquire about getting the "overdraft protection" removed. All we had to do was have her come in & sign a form to "Remove Courtesy Pay" (yeah, that's what they call it - funny!). Now her ATM card will be declined if she doesn't have the money in there. Every bank probably has a similar form - just call them. Especially if you have another person using the account who doesn't always tell you when charges are made!

Of course, keeping a proper register would keep this from EVER happening!

First and foremost, everyone with a rip-off report on banking fees IS ABSOLUTELY RIGHT. I am a former employee of a major bank and let me inform you as to where the issue really stems from. It is the individual state laws that determine how an item is processed (posted) into your account.

HERE'S HOW WE AS CONSUMERS CAN REMEADY THIS ISSUE. THE STATE LAWS THAT GOVERN THIS ISSUE MUST BE CHANGED (AMENDED) SO THAT THE INSTITUTIONS MUST PROCESS YOUR ACCOUNT TRANSACTIONS BASED UPON THE DATE AND TIME OF THE TRANSACTION ( IN REAL TIME ) CURRENTLY IN MOST OF THE STATES THE BANKS POST ACCOUNTS LARGEST TRANSACTION TO SMALLEST TRANSACTION.

HOWEVER, ALITTLE RESEARCH SHOWS THAT THIS CAN BE CHANGED. NEVADA IS A PERFECT EXAMPLE, TRANSATIONS ON ACCOUNTS MAINTAINED IN THE STATE OF NEVADA ARE PROCESSED IN REAL TIME THEREBY ELIMINATING 90% OF THE FEES THAT ARE CHARGED FOR OVERDRAFTS ON ACCOUNTS.

HERE'S AN EXAMPLE:

FRIDAY MY ACCOUNT BALANCE: 268.97
FRIDAY NIGHT I WITHDRAW $115.00 THEN ON SATURDAY I WITHDRAW 5.00 AND 12.97 AND THEN ON SUNDAY I WITHDRAW 130.00 NOW MONDAY COMES AND THERE IS A PRE-AUTHORIZED DEBIT COMING OUT OF THE ACCOUNT THREE DAYS EARLY FOR 125.00 FOR MY STUDENT LOAN.

THE BANK IS IS GOING TO POST IN THE FOLLOWING MANNER:

268.97 MINUS 130.00 MINUS 125.00 MINUS 115.00 MINUS 12.97 MINUS 5.00, THIS METHOD RESULTS IN THREE OVERDRAFT CHARGES TOTALLY IN 102.00

NOW TUESDAY MORNING YOU MAKE A DEPOSIT FOR THE 125.00 THINKING ITS COMING OUT THE NEXT DAY WHEN ACTUALLY YOUR STILL OVERDRAWN IN THE THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA YOU WILL PAY AN ADDITIONAL FEE FOR EACH DAY THAT YOUR ACCOUNT IS OVERDRAWN FOR THE FIRST SEVEN DAYS.

NOW LETS LOOK AT THE RESULT IN THE ACCOUNT WHEN THE ITEMS ARE POSTED IN REAL TIME.

THEY POST THE FOLLOWING ORDER:

BALANCE 268.97 MINUS 115.00 MINUS 5.00 MINUS 12.97 MINUS 130.00 MINUS THE 125.00 THIS SCENARIO RESULTS IN ONE OVERDRAFT FEE OF 34.00.

CAN WE ALL SEE WHY THE BANKING INDUSTRY WANTS THE POSTING ORDER TO REMAIN AS LARGEST TO SMALLEST INSTEAD OF BEING ON THE SIDE OF THE CONSUMER.

YES THERE ARE THOSE OF YOU OUT THERE SAYING OVERDRAFT PROTECTION ACCOUNT. WELL BELIEVE IT OR NOT THEY HIT YOU WITH FEES FOR THAT TOO. THEY GET YOU FOR CASH ADVANCE FEES IF YOUR USING A CREDIT CARD AND TRANSFER FEES IF YOUR USING A SAVINGS ACCOUNT. SO YOU CAN SEE HOW THE BANK IS RANKING IN THE BIG BUCKS OFF THE BACKS OF THERE CONSUMERS.

First and foremost, everyone with a rip-off report on banking fees IS ABSOLUTELY RIGHT. I am a former employee of a major bank and let me inform you as to where the issue really stems from. It is the individual state laws that determine how an item is processed (posted) into your account.

HERE'S HOW WE AS CONSUMERS CAN REMEADY THIS ISSUE. THE STATE LAWS THAT GOVERN THIS ISSUE MUST BE CHANGED (AMENDED) SO THAT THE INSTITUTIONS MUST PROCESS YOUR ACCOUNT TRANSACTIONS BASED UPON THE DATE AND TIME OF THE TRANSACTION ( IN REAL TIME ) CURRENTLY IN MOST OF THE STATES THE BANKS POST ACCOUNTS LARGEST TRANSACTION TO SMALLEST TRANSACTION.

HOWEVER, ALITTLE RESEARCH SHOWS THAT THIS CAN BE CHANGED. NEVADA IS A PERFECT EXAMPLE, TRANSATIONS ON ACCOUNTS MAINTAINED IN THE STATE OF NEVADA ARE PROCESSED IN REAL TIME THEREBY ELIMINATING 90% OF THE FEES THAT ARE CHARGED FOR OVERDRAFTS ON ACCOUNTS.

HERE'S AN EXAMPLE:

FRIDAY MY ACCOUNT BALANCE: 268.97
FRIDAY NIGHT I WITHDRAW $115.00 THEN ON SATURDAY I WITHDRAW 5.00 AND 12.97 AND THEN ON SUNDAY I WITHDRAW 130.00 NOW MONDAY COMES AND THERE IS A PRE-AUTHORIZED DEBIT COMING OUT OF THE ACCOUNT THREE DAYS EARLY FOR 125.00 FOR MY STUDENT LOAN.

THE BANK IS IS GOING TO POST IN THE FOLLOWING MANNER:

268.97 MINUS 130.00 MINUS 125.00 MINUS 115.00 MINUS 12.97 MINUS 5.00, THIS METHOD RESULTS IN THREE OVERDRAFT CHARGES TOTALLY IN 102.00

NOW TUESDAY MORNING YOU MAKE A DEPOSIT FOR THE 125.00 THINKING ITS COMING OUT THE NEXT DAY WHEN ACTUALLY YOUR STILL OVERDRAWN IN THE THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA YOU WILL PAY AN ADDITIONAL FEE FOR EACH DAY THAT YOUR ACCOUNT IS OVERDRAWN FOR THE FIRST SEVEN DAYS.

NOW LETS LOOK AT THE RESULT IN THE ACCOUNT WHEN THE ITEMS ARE POSTED IN REAL TIME.

THEY POST THE FOLLOWING ORDER:

BALANCE 268.97 MINUS 115.00 MINUS 5.00 MINUS 12.97 MINUS 130.00 MINUS THE 125.00 THIS SCENARIO RESULTS IN ONE OVERDRAFT FEE OF 34.00.

CAN WE ALL SEE WHY THE BANKING INDUSTRY WANTS THE POSTING ORDER TO REMAIN AS LARGEST TO SMALLEST INSTEAD OF BEING ON THE SIDE OF THE CONSUMER.

YES THERE ARE THOSE OF YOU OUT THERE SAYING OVERDRAFT PROTECTION ACCOUNT. WELL BELIEVE IT OR NOT THEY HIT YOU WITH FEES FOR THAT TOO. THEY GET YOU FOR CASH ADVANCE FEES IF YOUR USING A CREDIT CARD AND TRANSFER FEES IF YOUR USING A SAVINGS ACCOUNT. SO YOU CAN SEE HOW THE BANK IS RANKING IN THE BIG BUCKS OFF THE BACKS OF THERE CONSUMERS.

First and foremost, everyone with a rip-off report on banking fees IS ABSOLUTELY RIGHT. I am a former employee of a major bank and let me inform you as to where the issue really stems from. It is the individual state laws that determine how an item is processed (posted) into your account.

HERE'S HOW WE AS CONSUMERS CAN REMEADY THIS ISSUE. THE STATE LAWS THAT GOVERN THIS ISSUE MUST BE CHANGED (AMENDED) SO THAT THE INSTITUTIONS MUST PROCESS YOUR ACCOUNT TRANSACTIONS BASED UPON THE DATE AND TIME OF THE TRANSACTION ( IN REAL TIME ) CURRENTLY IN MOST OF THE STATES THE BANKS POST ACCOUNTS LARGEST TRANSACTION TO SMALLEST TRANSACTION.

HOWEVER, ALITTLE RESEARCH SHOWS THAT THIS CAN BE CHANGED. NEVADA IS A PERFECT EXAMPLE, TRANSATIONS ON ACCOUNTS MAINTAINED IN THE STATE OF NEVADA ARE PROCESSED IN REAL TIME THEREBY ELIMINATING 90% OF THE FEES THAT ARE CHARGED FOR OVERDRAFTS ON ACCOUNTS.

HERE'S AN EXAMPLE:

FRIDAY MY ACCOUNT BALANCE: 268.97
FRIDAY NIGHT I WITHDRAW $115.00 THEN ON SATURDAY I WITHDRAW 5.00 AND 12.97 AND THEN ON SUNDAY I WITHDRAW 130.00 NOW MONDAY COMES AND THERE IS A PRE-AUTHORIZED DEBIT COMING OUT OF THE ACCOUNT THREE DAYS EARLY FOR 125.00 FOR MY STUDENT LOAN.

THE BANK IS IS GOING TO POST IN THE FOLLOWING MANNER:

268.97 MINUS 130.00 MINUS 125.00 MINUS 115.00 MINUS 12.97 MINUS 5.00, THIS METHOD RESULTS IN THREE OVERDRAFT CHARGES TOTALLY IN 102.00

NOW TUESDAY MORNING YOU MAKE A DEPOSIT FOR THE 125.00 THINKING ITS COMING OUT THE NEXT DAY WHEN ACTUALLY YOUR STILL OVERDRAWN IN THE THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA YOU WILL PAY AN ADDITIONAL FEE FOR EACH DAY THAT YOUR ACCOUNT IS OVERDRAWN FOR THE FIRST SEVEN DAYS.

NOW LETS LOOK AT THE RESULT IN THE ACCOUNT WHEN THE ITEMS ARE POSTED IN REAL TIME.

THEY POST THE FOLLOWING ORDER:

BALANCE 268.97 MINUS 115.00 MINUS 5.00 MINUS 12.97 MINUS 130.00 MINUS THE 125.00 THIS SCENARIO RESULTS IN ONE OVERDRAFT FEE OF 34.00.

CAN WE ALL SEE WHY THE BANKING INDUSTRY WANTS THE POSTING ORDER TO REMAIN AS LARGEST TO SMALLEST INSTEAD OF BEING ON THE SIDE OF THE CONSUMER.

YES THERE ARE THOSE OF YOU OUT THERE SAYING OVERDRAFT PROTECTION ACCOUNT. WELL BELIEVE IT OR NOT THEY HIT YOU WITH FEES FOR THAT TOO. THEY GET YOU FOR CASH ADVANCE FEES IF YOUR USING A CREDIT CARD AND TRANSFER FEES IF YOUR USING A SAVINGS ACCOUNT. SO YOU CAN SEE HOW THE BANK IS RANKING IN THE BIG BUCKS OFF THE BACKS OF THERE CONSUMERS.

First and foremost, everyone with a rip-off report on banking fees IS ABSOLUTELY RIGHT. I am a former employee of a major bank and let me inform you as to where the issue really stems from. It is the individual state laws that determine how an item is processed (posted) into your account.

HERE'S HOW WE AS CONSUMERS CAN REMEADY THIS ISSUE. THE STATE LAWS THAT GOVERN THIS ISSUE MUST BE CHANGED (AMENDED) SO THAT THE INSTITUTIONS MUST PROCESS YOUR ACCOUNT TRANSACTIONS BASED UPON THE DATE AND TIME OF THE TRANSACTION ( IN REAL TIME ) CURRENTLY IN MOST OF THE STATES THE BANKS POST ACCOUNTS LARGEST TRANSACTION TO SMALLEST TRANSACTION.

HOWEVER, ALITTLE RESEARCH SHOWS THAT THIS CAN BE CHANGED. NEVADA IS A PERFECT EXAMPLE, TRANSATIONS ON ACCOUNTS MAINTAINED IN THE STATE OF NEVADA ARE PROCESSED IN REAL TIME THEREBY ELIMINATING 90% OF THE FEES THAT ARE CHARGED FOR OVERDRAFTS ON ACCOUNTS.

HERE'S AN EXAMPLE:

FRIDAY MY ACCOUNT BALANCE: 268.97
FRIDAY NIGHT I WITHDRAW $115.00 THEN ON SATURDAY I WITHDRAW 5.00 AND 12.97 AND THEN ON SUNDAY I WITHDRAW 130.00 NOW MONDAY COMES AND THERE IS A PRE-AUTHORIZED DEBIT COMING OUT OF THE ACCOUNT THREE DAYS EARLY FOR 125.00 FOR MY STUDENT LOAN.

THE BANK IS IS GOING TO POST IN THE FOLLOWING MANNER:

268.97 MINUS 130.00 MINUS 125.00 MINUS 115.00 MINUS 12.97 MINUS 5.00, THIS METHOD RESULTS IN THREE OVERDRAFT CHARGES TOTALLY IN 102.00

NOW TUESDAY MORNING YOU MAKE A DEPOSIT FOR THE 125.00 THINKING ITS COMING OUT THE NEXT DAY WHEN ACTUALLY YOUR STILL OVERDRAWN IN THE THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA YOU WILL PAY AN ADDITIONAL FEE FOR EACH DAY THAT YOUR ACCOUNT IS OVERDRAWN FOR THE FIRST SEVEN DAYS.

NOW LETS LOOK AT THE RESULT IN THE ACCOUNT WHEN THE ITEMS ARE POSTED IN REAL TIME.

THEY POST THE FOLLOWING ORDER:

BALANCE 268.97 MINUS 115.00 MINUS 5.00 MINUS 12.97 MINUS 130.00 MINUS THE 125.00 THIS SCENARIO RESULTS IN ONE OVERDRAFT FEE OF 34.00.

CAN WE ALL SEE WHY THE BANKING INDUSTRY WANTS THE POSTING ORDER TO REMAIN AS LARGEST TO SMALLEST INSTEAD OF BEING ON THE SIDE OF THE CONSUMER.

YES THERE ARE THOSE OF YOU OUT THERE SAYING OVERDRAFT PROTECTION ACCOUNT. WELL BELIEVE IT OR NOT THEY HIT YOU WITH FEES FOR THAT TOO. THEY GET YOU FOR CASH ADVANCE FEES IF YOUR USING A CREDIT CARD AND TRANSFER FEES IF YOUR USING A SAVINGS ACCOUNT. SO YOU CAN SEE HOW THE BANK IS RANKING IN THE BIG BUCKS OFF THE BACKS OF THERE CONSUMERS.

to the people responding on the banks side,

Bank of america was sued and gave up nine million dollars over the way they post transactions (largest to smallest) because it maximizes fee revenue. They did this so that they would not have to admit fault in a class action lawsuit. And yes I said "revenue" because that is what the bank considers it! Banks in the united states.

Someone thinks when the items say posting they already incur fees. I worked there....no they dont. You have till the charge is reconciled to deposit money. The company has three days, if not done the money will appear in your account again! you have till this no longer says "posting" to cover them. This is ussually the end of business on the day of posting.

Also the bank knows you dont have money when using a debit card, why not declne the transaction!? because they want to make money. Bank advisors say that banks shouldnt feel bad because the are in business to make money. fees equal money, as a matter of fact banks reported over $52 million in fee revenue, considerably more than in interest revenue from loans etc.

Credit cards have a maximum apr they can charge because of usery laws, but banks get away with this because the y call it a "transaction fee", and because it is a fee for a transaction, and not considered a loan, usery laws don't apply.

I recently opened a new checking account and told them i wanted overdraft protection. Between the two accounts i could have that give me the most free things, which i know because i worked there and sold them, I knew i could get a college, or membership account. The banker first tried to get me a credit card through the college account to back up as od protection. but when this didnt happen he left the account unprotected, and did not change it to a membership account which can be backed up by my savings account.

six months later with no real problems and my checking account was suddenly overdrawn. I transferred funds thinking there must have been an error, because i had over $1500 in my savings. My brother is a banker there, so at the end of the week i went in to talk with someone at his branch about it and deposit my checks. I found my account overdrafted and with a total of $615 in fees. They wont refund them. The reason is that the bank has a "limit" per day per branch to return, it is low, and when they do it, it is considered lost revenue to the branch, which equals lost bonuses and promotions for its management. ooopss, no wonder they dont want to help.

Ive paid my share of fees, dont get me wrong, but we have laws against usery for a reason, and lawsuits will create competition and drive these fees down, people just have to get the guts to fight, that is why we have a democracy. We should be demanding a better product!

Steve, when it happens to you it wont be so fun to take responsibility of, especially when it happens around your kids birthday, or before a vacation, or when you start a new semester at school and need books.

Whats the point, well the point isnt whose fault it was or what the situation was, or how nice the bank reps, like me, are. The point is we have to fight for ourselves, cause bad news, banks support your poloticians, so they wont fight it themselves, plus,,,,,they dont overdraft, they have a ton of money, like i will some day, but because of my experience in college, I wont ever let a bank capitalize on me, unless i find one that takes care of every customer, no matter what $ amount the are worth.

Some of the most proffitable people to a bank right now are the poorest, paying the most in OD fees. We are making them more money than the VIP accounts they hold so dear and do anything for, but we get treated like...

I had fraud on my account. NOT MY FAULT!!!! Otherwise I would not have gotten it back. Period!!! Why is it that people don't read every thing, and then draw their own mistaken conclusions?

Gail,

We are all human and all make mistakes. However when responsible people make a mistake, we own up to it and face the consequences. We don't scream RIP-OFF!

Have you ever heard of a CHECK REGISTER? USE IT, ITS FREE! You admitted you forgot a transaction and your husband was using the ATM card! How is Wells Fargo responsible for your errors? And how is your disability even relevant? It's NOT.

I don't even like Wells fargo myself, but how do you thing they got so large if they can't do proper accounting? They would be out of business because the banking regulators would have shut them down by now!

Also, $1300 in fees over a year? That is approximately 39 NSF items! You don't pay $1300 because of 1 or 2 mistakes!

Face it, you are totally irresponsible and should not have a checkbook or an ATM card. That is obvious to anyone with the IQ of a houseplant!

I really hate when people blame everyone else but themselves. Take some responsibility for your own actions.

I do keep track. I was going through severe ilness at the time. I got the $1300 back as this was not my fault. If it was my fault I wouldn't have gotten it back. Doesn't everybody make an occasional mistake? ZI never used to until I got so sick with Rheumatoid Arthritis.

Another thought comes to mind when I think about what you wrote. I think it is indeed wonderful that the manager at your branch takes time out to help your child. However, just because there are some nice people that work for Wells Fargo, does not make it an outstanding institution. Read other peoples reports and you will see that there is a general lack of compassion by quite a few of the people that work for the institution. All they really care about is there profit margin. Period. If they get enough people who are up in arms over their practices, they will change their tune. Suppose you get people to start picketting their branches, do you think new people will be signing up for accounts with them? People should know the truth before they get involved with this bank.

You seem to not be keeping a register and tracking your balance, rather you are looking online and running down to make deposits when you think you are negative. By this time Iwould think you'd have realized that this doesn't work.

When you see 'pending' transactions online... guess what? You are ALREADY overdrawn and going to get hit with fees... it is too late to cover the debits. It was too late as soon as you did transactions for funds not already in your account. As soon as those pending items came in, they created an overdraft item that WF posts at night.

You CANNOT use an online balance to keep track of your account, well actually you can, it just costs $1300 a year.

I was not irresponsible last year over the $1300 in fees. As was stated, the oroblem was completely due to Axys National Bank.



they were taking large amounts of money without my authorization. I got the money back because it wasn't my fault. It had nothing at all to do with being irresponsible. And I didn't intentionally spend money I didn't have. My husband used the card without my knowledge. And haven't you ever made a $25.00 mistake in your life? I'm glad that they take the time to help your son. And how old is he anyway? I can guarantee that as he gets a little older, you will have some teenage rebellion on your hands and life may become a little more stressful for you too. And hopefully you don't come down with any diseases that cause you horrific chronic pain. If you ever do and end up on Morphine like I have, things may be a little more difficult for you too, Before criticizing someone for being irresponsible in the future, perhaps you should get all of the details first.

Thanks for the comments though, even if unfounded.

Here's your mistake:

"On the 22nd I checked the website as I do everyday. I realized that there were 5 pending transactions that I needed to cover"

Sorry, you lose. You had no right to spend money that you didn't have. The bank isn't supposed to hold your hand and wipe your butt for you.

The reason that your fees were not there when you went to cover the deficit was because they hadn't posted yet. This happens at the witching hour as do the posting of all transactions. Didn't you know that you would be charged these fees?

The fact that you have paid $1300 in bank fees clearly demonstrates that you're irresponsible. It's ironic that someone who had $1300 to waste on bank fees is complaining that they don't have money for food.

And furthemore, it seems like Wells-Fargo cut you some breaks in the past.

Wells-Fargo is an outstanding financial institution. The manager of my local WF branch actually takes the time every week to take my 5 year old sons weekly deposit and sit down with him and review his account.

Maybe they'll do the same for you. I'll bet if you can save up $50, they'll give you one of the really cool stagecoach banks.

THE SYNERGIST
When it comes to bringing business, architecture, and commerce together, there's never been a figure like Korean-American business liaison Chris Pak


STAGECOACH ROBBERY
Welcome to Wells Fargo. Now put your hands in the air

PATRIOT ACTING
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WALK, DON'T RUN
Rodney on the 'ROQ is off the Walk

ALEX PADILLA
The L.A. City Council president on the new mayor, fixing public schools, and the kids in the Hall

SECRET HISTORY

LITERARY AFTERSHOCKS
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THAT THING THEY DO!
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YOUR 'DAILY' DOSE
Even today, Indecision 2004' sweetens that bitter election pill


STAGECOACH ROBBERY
Welcome to Wells Fargo. Now put your hands in the air

~ By MARK CROMER ~


Illustration by Jordan Crane


am listening to the attractive blonde teller across the counter at the small Claremont branch of Wells Fargo Bank, the iconic West Coast banking giant that prides itself on its historical connection with the American frontier. You know: Cowboys and Indians, shoot-'em-ups and shake-'em-downs.

As she repeats her lines, I can't shake the memory of a scene from Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid. Paul Newman and Robert Redford are eyeing the Banco de Los Andes in a dusty Bolivian square.

The thing to remember when we get inside Newman starts to say.

Don't tell me how to rob a bank! Redford snaps. I know how to rob a bank.

I suppose it's the lush irony of the moment that's prompted the cinematic flashback. The seeming romance of Butch and the Kid has long since vanished. We're living in an era in which it's the banks that know how to rob the people and with a gun-less efficiency that would have had the real Butch Cassidy drooling. Today, banks fleece patrons in a fashion that is nonviolent but no less ruthless instead of a six-shooter, they use fees.

Do I sound bitter? Over a two-day period in May, Wells Fargo hit me with $132 in the aforementioned fees. Why? For covering four charges on my ATM card that overdrew my account by a total of $36.55. None of my ATM purchases were more than $11, yet Wells Fargo clipped me triple that amount each time.

The bank calls it overdraft protection.

If I were offered that kind of protection from a Broadway street hustler, I could go to the LAPD and file a report. With Wells Fargo, where according to my checks I have been A Valued Customer Since 1992, I have little choice as a consumer but to go elsewhere.

Not that I'd find much relief. According to a report issued in June by the Consumer Federation of America (available at www.consumerfed.org), the majority of major banks employ courtesy overdraft loans and they rack up huge profits in the process.

According to the report, the banking industry pulls in at least $10 billion annually from the fees, but that's the low-end figure. The actual annual profits from such courtesy loans may run as high as $23 billion a year for the banks.

The banks score big when consumers use their ATM cards for point-of-sale purchases a practice the banks encourage. Yet instead of declining a sale when a checking account is overdrawn, banks like Wells Fargo extend a courtesy loan and then charges astronomical interest against it.

You don't get a notice, says Jean Ann Fox, director of Consumer Protection at the Washington, D.C.-based federation. You don't get a warning. You cannot terminate the transaction. They do not ask you if you would like this courtesy loan.' With courtesy like this, who needs rude behavior?

Indeed, for the issue at play here is far deeper, far uglier than one struggling Schmoe like me trying to find the right bank in these difficult times. The issue is the pervasive, all-consuming greed among the Hummer-class and the culture that these fees represent.

At Wells Fargo, the grinding desire to take as much as possible is evident in the oblique notices the bank mails out, statements that coolly denote monthly point-of-sale fees, monthly service fees, checks returned with statement fees, Stagecoach Banker fees (for speaking to a live person on the phone), ATM statement fees, overdraft fees, continual overdraft fees and non-sufficient funds fees, to name a few.

The big money the real money, as they say can be found in the NSF and overdraft fees that the banks employ with all the ham-fisted nuance of Vietnam-era Secretary of Defense Robert McNamara recommending a B-52 strike. Wells Fargo charges $33 for every overdraft fee and $28 for every NSF fee. Doesn't sound like much? Well here's the rub: If a customer is overdrawn by just two bucks, Wells Fargo charges them $33, every time.

With the blessing of Uncle Sam, who has yet to take action that would rein in the fee scales, financial institutions have enjoyed an orgy of Armani-garbed larceny for years. The irony of course is that for the Hummer-class, fees are waived virtually across the board. Having large reserves of money is rewarded, struggling to get by is penalized.

So brazen have some banks become, that even depositing money to stop the bleeding is not made easy, as my teller explained. It turns out that the $2,000 check I am depositing might be held for up to seven days while funds clear. I ask how ?8 that could be, considering it is a check from a huge corporation drawn on an account at a large commercial bank?

Well sir, it seems you've had some overdrafts lately.

That may be true, but I am depositing money, I said. Isn't adding money to an anemic account a good thing?

Well sir, we have to be sure the funds are good.

Can't you call to confirm the check is good, or do it online?

Even if we could, sir, how would we know it will still be good tomorrow or whenever they process the check?

I ask her if Wells Fargo will then put a hold on any overdraft fees that may hit pending the release of the funds.

She smiles, a beautiful Stepford-zen smile. No sir, we can't.

I feel a little Travis Bickle Robert De Niro's explosive taxi driver coming over me. So what you're telling me is that you won't credit me the funds I am depositing, but you will continue to hammer me with massive overdraft fees as a courtesy, of course.

Her smile drops and she looks across the floor to her manager. Customer service please.

The following day, Wells Fargo hit me with another $33 overdraft on a charge of $9.18 and, the day after that, hit me with $63 in fees for covering a $23 charge and returning a $3 check (my gas bill).

In three days, Wells Fargo charged me $228 in fees for the courtesy of covering less than $70 in charges.

And banks like Wells Fargo won't break a sweat crediting accounts with funds deposited until Congress (God help us) forces them to.

According to Fox at the Consumer Federation, Congress has been half-hearted at best in rallying to the side of the consumer. When legislators recently passed the infamous Check 21 legislation that allowed banks to almost-instantly deduct money from our accounts, it somehow neglected to speed up the process of crediting deposits.

Rep. Maxine Waters (D-Los Angeles) is listed as a cosponsor of H.R. 799, which apparently is designed to help expedite the crediting of deposits, but Fox says the bill is languishing in committee. Calls to the congresswoman's local and Washington offices went unreturned.

The consumer is losing control of their bank accounts, Fox said, noting that the fee schematic banks like Wells Fargo currently employ are virtually indistinguishable from predatory payday lenders. At its very essence, it is short-term, debt-trap lending, but on a massive scale. It's heads we win and tails you lose.

Am I optimistic that Congress will step up to plate and force these institutional loan sharks to end their gluttony? No, I am not. Congress usually drives the getaway car for these guys.

But perhaps when the tipping point is reached, when consumers finally snap en masse under the pain of such blatant and sustained corporate rape, the upheaval will portend a return to the days of Butch and the Kid when two-bit outlaws on the dodge at least had the courtesy to tell you, This is a robbery.