Williams & Associates Ripoff intentionally misled me informing me fee for training was TINY and unconditionally TOTALLY REFUNDABLE while it was far from that Orange Park Florida
After being contacted via e-mail by this company in response to my Monster.com resume and being invited to local Auto Dealership, I attended interview with TJ Nelson-trainer and recruiter for Williams & Associates.
TJ Nelson invited me to attend training the next day. Then TJ. informed me that there would be a small fee for the training. Small fee? Sure that's what they all say I was thinking. But TJ. seemed like the kind of man who wouldn't lie.How much I asked? "Oh it's just a small fee, and it's Totally Refundable! T.J. said.
A small totally refundable fee I thought, and I am a single Mother who can't afford to begin training and losing a Day or Two in training in a job with a fee that might not be small, let alone unconditionally totally refundable as he makes it sound.
Losing a Day or Two in training could devastate my finances if the fee were not totally refundable, not strings attached as he led me to believe. I had another job lined up, and I could not afford the time lost to a fee that was not small. How much? I asked again. T.J. waved his hand at me and said "Oh it's nothing, it's just this tiny fee and it is Totally Refundable."
So I believed him that he would not lie to me. He wanted me to know it was so tiny it was not worth mentioning, and posed no risk to even worry about.
It was so tiny it couldn't matter, and it was totally refundable, so no one had any thing to lose! This is what TJ wanted me to believe.I as a single Mother could trust TJ (he wanted me to believe) that this fee was not only tiny, but represented no risk in losing as it was totally refundable. Totally no risk TJ made it appear!
Trust Me he was saying. And I did. This is I had forgotten what all Good Con Artists do.
So I showed up for training the next day. The second day being trained by TJ------ that I would have needed to become employed elsewhere T.J. informs the group being trained that the tiny fee was $600.00, and that it was only totally refundable after we remained on the job for 90 days.
And the dealership could decide not to hire you, or could fire you causing you to have to lose more time becoming placed through Williams and Associates in another job, if you wanted your $600.00 refunded.
I had to make the decision to work for this dealership "if" they offered the job to me, because I could not afford the loss of two days pay I had already lost because of the deception presented by TJ in giving me misleading information, so I signed the contract to pay the $600, in order to get it back, and because his lie made me lose two days from work.
TJ Nelson deliberately misled me telling me things to make me believe the amount of money was so small it couldn't matter! And not only that No Strings Attached! It was representing No Risk! in that it was Totally Refundable! TJ made it appear to have no risk involved while it represented ALOT of risk.
He deliberately tried to reassure my concern letting me know I could believe him--- saying it was a Tiny insignificant amount of money with no risk involved because he knew it was by most peoples standards it was NOT a small insignificant amount of money.
I called Williams and Associates, and spoke to Rick Williams (April 4th 2006) owner of this company, and told him my concern, and asked for a refund. He told me I would receive a response within 5 business days, and he never contacted me. I called him on the 4th and 5th business day after my initial call and reminded him I was expecting a reply, and he did not call. He had event taken my e-mail, and never e-mailed a response.
In addition I asked Rick Williams over the phone "When people ask, "How Much is the training?" in an interview---- does your company teach your recruiter/trainer to withold that information, saying it is a tiny amount that is totally refundable?
And Rick Williams answered "No." We tell them to say it is a small amount that is totally refundable."So you do instruct your recruiter/trainers to withhold that information when asked to give it---is that correct?" I asked R. Williams. R. Williams owner of Williams and Associates became angry with me and told me I was belligerant in asking him to respond to my question, so I told him to have a good day , and decided to try to recover my loss by reporting this to the BBB.
In addition to all of this trouble I have had to go to the Salvation Army to get help paying my rent---as not only did Williams and Associates misrepresent their training placement package price, but the dealership misrepresented the hours when I asked about them, not telling me it was a 56 hour a week, so I had to quit. I as a single Mother could not work 56 hours a week and have the time to care for my children alone. That was why I asked these questions to begin with.
Kim
Fort Mill, South Carolina
U.S.A.
6 Updates & Rebuttals
Mike
Radford,Virginia,
U.S.A.
Red flags
#7Consumer Suggestion
Wed, May 23, 2007
The comment by "H" is exactly right. Every reputable company will hire you FIRST, then front the costs of any necessary training. In a few cases (e.g. truck driving) where the training is rather involved and expensive (NOT just two days in a classroom), you may be under a contract to pay them back if you quit or get fired before a certain time. But the important point is that you are already hired before you commit to that.
The other red flag is that any time something will cost you money, the person selling it should immediately be able to tell you the exact amount without having to ask more than twice. If this amount is so "tiny" or "small", why doesn't the dealer just pay it? The whole thing is a scam to get many more applicants than are needed for the number of jobs avaialable, and take money from them.
Mike
Radford,Virginia,
U.S.A.
Red flags
#7Consumer Suggestion
Wed, May 23, 2007
The comment by "H" is exactly right. Every reputable company will hire you FIRST, then front the costs of any necessary training. In a few cases (e.g. truck driving) where the training is rather involved and expensive (NOT just two days in a classroom), you may be under a contract to pay them back if you quit or get fired before a certain time. But the important point is that you are already hired before you commit to that.
The other red flag is that any time something will cost you money, the person selling it should immediately be able to tell you the exact amount without having to ask more than twice. If this amount is so "tiny" or "small", why doesn't the dealer just pay it? The whole thing is a scam to get many more applicants than are needed for the number of jobs avaialable, and take money from them.
Mike
Radford,Virginia,
U.S.A.
Red flags
#7Consumer Suggestion
Wed, May 23, 2007
The comment by "H" is exactly right. Every reputable company will hire you FIRST, then front the costs of any necessary training. In a few cases (e.g. truck driving) where the training is rather involved and expensive (NOT just two days in a classroom), you may be under a contract to pay them back if you quit or get fired before a certain time. But the important point is that you are already hired before you commit to that.
The other red flag is that any time something will cost you money, the person selling it should immediately be able to tell you the exact amount without having to ask more than twice. If this amount is so "tiny" or "small", why doesn't the dealer just pay it? The whole thing is a scam to get many more applicants than are needed for the number of jobs avaialable, and take money from them.
Mike
Radford,Virginia,
U.S.A.
Red flags
#7Consumer Suggestion
Wed, May 23, 2007
The comment by "H" is exactly right. Every reputable company will hire you FIRST, then front the costs of any necessary training. In a few cases (e.g. truck driving) where the training is rather involved and expensive (NOT just two days in a classroom), you may be under a contract to pay them back if you quit or get fired before a certain time. But the important point is that you are already hired before you commit to that.
The other red flag is that any time something will cost you money, the person selling it should immediately be able to tell you the exact amount without having to ask more than twice. If this amount is so "tiny" or "small", why doesn't the dealer just pay it? The whole thing is a scam to get many more applicants than are needed for the number of jobs avaialable, and take money from them.
H
Washington,District of Columbia,
U.S.A.
PAYING to work for someone?
#7Consumer Comment
Tue, May 22, 2007
Most reputable companies will pay you to train for their job. Even McDonald's does that. You don't need any type of license/accreditation/certification to sell cars, so TJ's example of having to have an insurance license does not compare. Also, I work for an insurance company and they not only paid me for training but they paid me to go through licensing classes AND they paid for my license itself.
You should never have to pay to work for anyone. You'd get a better deal volunteering.
T.j.
Orange Park,,Florida,
U.S.A.
Willams & Associates Training Seminar
#7REBUTTAL Individual responds
Tue, May 22, 2007
Kim,
I only recently learned of your frustration from a prospective student, a year after your certification . I am hurt that you never tried to contact me since I gave you my contact information after the graduation and asked you to contact me via email if I ever could be of assistance in your new career. It is especially hurtful since my character was called into question repeatedly throughout your statement.
Let me begin by saying much of what you said was true.
1. You, like many others without any experience in auto sales, were invited to interview with me.
2. I did interview you along with about 50 others.
3. During that interview I did tell you that the dealership required you to be certified prior to consideration since you have absolutely NO EXPERIENCE in selling cars.
4. You used the words tiny and small for the certification fee and you used the words totally refundable. What I actually said, as I always do is: "The dealership does require a refundable tuition, but it is not expensive, in order to pay for your training, materials and cost of certification."
5. It is not unreasonable to expect a person to prepare themselves prior to employement. For example: Life Insurance Licensing, Realestate Licensing, Doctors, Lawyers, Electricians, Beauticians, teachers, dog groomers, Heating and Air Conditioning Specialist. All of these professions, as well as many more, expect a person to show credentials and usually experience in the particular field prior to employment.
6. You were told the dealership was willing to forgo experience if the individual would simply take a class prior to employment to ensure they possess the knowledge required for success.
7. During the interview I said that the car business was a retail sales environment that was 7 days a week with nights, weekends and holidays and you said you were ok with that or I would not have invited you back for training.
8. You were invited back for training and you were told that the dealership would even payroll deduct the cost of certification out of the salary that they guaranteed anyone who has completed my course if it was too much for you to come up with all at once.
9. You were also told once we have trained you we offer lifetime placement in the automobile business for all of our graduates should you become unemployed.
10. I also told you that the dealership would refund 100% of your tuition as long as you would stay with them 90 days so they could recoup the expense of your training and rucruitment.
11. By the lunch break on the FIRST DAY of certification training you knew the hours, the salary, the bonus and commission schedual, the cost of certification, the terms of refund and the possibility that we may need to place you at another dealership should this dealer not extend an offer.
12. Knowing everthing you showed up on Thursday and signed a contract with my company to pay $589 to become a Williams & Associates Certified Automobile Salesperson with lifetime placement.
13. You completed your training and were extended an offer of employement. I did not leave the dealership until I made sure everyone was extended an offer or informed what to do to arrange placement elsewhere.
14. You started at the dealership and decided that you didn't like the hours. However, during the interview and numerous times during the training you were told of the commitment it would take the first few years as well as the hours that would be required.
15. Kim, as long as you are current on your payments for your tuition we would be happy to assist you in finding a well paying position at a dealership in your area even though you quit from that last position we helped you obtain.
16. However, be prepared to work the hours of a professional salesperson in the retail business.
I hope after reconsidering you will retract your statement but either way I will be happy to assist you in placement if you will contact me.
Respectfully,
T.J. Nelson