Complaint Review: Wolf Haven Spirit of the Past

Look, I do not know you from Adam but I can tell you right now that you are a piece of cellophane. I have raised pure wolves for over 53 years and I do know for a fact that wolfhaven has wolves, not only can you do a DNA on them but there are certain characteristics that are very dominate to a wolf and a wolf alone, no other animal has these characteristics. Obviously you need to own one for right now I have 2 , they are used for search and rescue and also one of them is in training for my own service animal. Their noses are a heck of a lot more sensitive then a regular dog, even though they can not see straight colors like a human not even a regular dog can not.  I guess you think that you know a heck of a lot more then anyone about this subject when all I see is someone that thinks that they are God and even he would not trade places with you I know a hell of a lot more then you do and yes my animals will be close to 300 pounds where, you might have seen starved ones. The baby I have at home right now has a father that weighs in at 195+ in pounds and stands 36 inches from center of back down. The reason youmeasure them from the center is because they hunch their backs so the clear reading would be from the center. Also I had a 375 pound Timber Wolf at  age 13 but because my father would not allow me to bring him home to Hawaii, I would go see him at my uncles place at Lake Chalan.

Do not cut someone down that you do not know anything about and yes you can do DNAS on a wolf infact you can do DNAS on any animal unless it is someone like yourself that has a DNA that does not register as being Human in any respect. You just bit off more then you can chew when you locked horns with me, I have sold my wolves all over the USA and in Europe too. If you want to throw stones look up the Siberian Husky, it is the only true wolf that AKC registers. The wolf has only three true color of eyes, pumpkin, amber and light yellow , there are occassions that a Timber will have green eyes or gray but never blue for that right there will tell you that it is not a true full blooded wolf. It states that there is husky or some other lowly form of dog in it and then it becomes a wolf dog not a wolf hybrid because a wolf hybrid true to form is any wild breed of wolf bred back into the wolf, this way the genes are protected as true to form.

 Only serious buyers, like myself will pay the price that they are sold for and if you knew so much you would know this at all cost, wolves are not allowed to be caught in the wild right now people and possibly even you would like to kill and get the Bounty placed on a very beautiful animal, anyone who comes up to my ranch to kill or mame my wolves will go out in a body bag with a toe tag on them, the same way that they would have done to my wolves, unless you can proove that what you say is true, shut your pie hole and  be gone with you.

Okay for starters. Where is the proof? What did you do go and take the blood and of each wolf and go Ah-Ha! One of them is not pure wolf! Dude they don't even say they're pure wolf. Only 98% close but not pure. Second off I don't work for this company but I can say Wolves can be trained. I've trained some. Don't believe me? Take it up with my Wolf Ranger who is sleeping next to me. He is my anxiety service dog. Loyal? Heck yeah. Leash? Piff. Why waste the money? He follows me around everywhere. Never leaves my side. Next wolves are my favorite animals. So I considered becoming a wolf expert. So I researched everything I could. Body smell? Don't have one for hunting purposes. Shedding? Give them a good brushing every summer and you're set. Adaption? Wolves adapt great! That's how the black wolf came to be and dogs! What about the red wolf? Let me think about this for a sec. This wolf has been in a breeding program since before 2008, has no idea how to live in the wild, and I gonna take it out and throw it into a habitat where it is likely to get ripped to shreds. Get real. Oh and F.Y.I. Most Wolves became endangered about 5-10 years ago. Way to go.

I know how genetics in wolfdogs are passed. Through content, and not percentage. These animals are at most low, but you are forgetting that they are advertising them as HIGH/PURE. That alone is enough reason to not buy from them. 

Yes, wolves and dogs do look very different. I can phenotype, thank you very much. And wolfdogs are not "hybrids" so please don't call them that. Wolves and dogs have been deemed the same species since 1993. 

"The only other point you have is that they arm people with false information, and you could place the blame on the owners of wolfhaven, but I prefer to put the blame on people who refuse to do the right thing and research their pet before they get one."

Really? So if a scam artist rips people off thousands of dollars, the victim is to blame and in court the con-artist gets off scot free, right? And I have no right to write a ripoff report on them? Wow. You and your argument points...  

When did I ever say that wolfdogs and wolves can't be trained? I'm going to school for wild animal training; I KNOW wild animals can be trained. 

"Another is that these animals are all dog no wolf."

Before you said the animals were low-lower-mid and now you're saying they're all dog? 

I know how much space a wolfdog needs. They don't need acre upon acres, but they WILL NOT do well living in a TRUCK like Wolf Haven Spirit of the Past claims. 

I really don't know why you are defending them. It's people like them that gets innocent dogs killed in shelters, misleading the public into thinking they own a wolfdog when they really don't. 

Firstly before you start throwing out rebuttals that are not conducive to that advancement of this conversation by claiming that I do not know what I am talking about, I am a wolfdog owner.  I have been for quite sometime having been around them since I was a child.  Your argument does have some truth to it, I agree they are far from a 98% grade wolf hybrid.  They are medium to low content depending on how the genetic were passed, it gets really complicated there and I do not feel like explaining it to someone who's mind is already made up.

There is wolf in them and I do not need a DNA test to prove it.  Behaviorally dogs and wolves are as far apart as a house cat from a bobcat.  It's not a whole lot but it is enough that someone who has done the research and spent copious amounts of time with the animals can make a thorough and educated decision.  Those behaviors are grounded in genetics, a fact proven by Russian scientists when they duplicated the procedure to domesticate animals with the fox (also known as the Silver Fox Experiments or any other numerous names, look it up if you have any questions.).  For example dogs are generally outgoing and welcome attention from most sources.  A wolfdog or a wolf will only accept attention from a source it is familiar with, thus aiding the desire to survive and pass on ones genes.

Physically wolves and dogs have numerous differences, wolves have a working scent gland on their tail as well as most wolfdogs of medium content or higher.  The paws and the mechanical movements of the joints in their tarsals and metatarsals (I defer to the PhD wielding commenter above for actual medical terminology or nomenclature.), and yes some of those differences are also present in felines, vulpine, and even ermine relatives (With that I am referring to the ability to lift ones claws so that they do not contact the ground causing noise disturbances, almost all feral [feral meaning non domesticated] animals exhibit this distinction from their domesticated counterparts that no longer hunt for survival.  Tooth size as well as claw and paw size is another huge indicator, dogs have smaller canine teeth than wolves do with a few exceptions mostly due to size differences.

Cosmetically yes it is possible to create what is known as a fake wolf.  You combine the elements you want from particular breeds until you get the look of a wolf.  Now this process is complicated and having met the people at Wolfhaven Spirit of the Past several times, meaning no offense to them but they do not have the knowhow to do that.

So yes you are correct that they do some things incorrectly, does that make them the worst wolfbreeder yet, no, no it does not.  Do I agree with their breeding practices, no.  Although I do understand why they do it the way they do.  Seeing as how the normal hierarchy of who gets to mate is greatly disrupted from the way it normally would be in nature.  So that they can keep the different hybrid strains separate and not interbred.  Do I agree with the inbreeding, most definitely not, but when you are too poor to get new blood in, it happens.  At this point it bears no genetic diseases but in a few generations that may begin to change.  The only other point you have is that they arm people with false information, and you could place the blame on the owners of wolfhaven, but I prefer to put the blame on people who refuse to do the right thing and research their pet before they get one.

However you are critically wrong on a great many points.  One being that wolves and wolfdogs are not trainable.  They are completely trainable, now is it as easy as a dog most definitely not, wolves and wolfdogs (I'm just going to shorten it to one or the other it is annoying to have to type both each time but you will know that I mean both.) have very strong personalities and are better treated and trained as a friend not as a pet similar to how you would train a police dog.  They can also be stubborn and refuse to do what you ask of them (And before you say "Well you are just a ****-poor trainer" it has nothing to do with how they were trained, you can mold behaviors but you can break them its part of the animal.) because they just don't feel like it and the reward doesn't interest them.  Another is that these animals are all dog no wolf. 

Yes, they can be genetically tested seeing as how there is no specific test for lupine because it is a species of the genus canis, so the statement all lupines are canines but not all canines are lupine applies here.  The PhD above is correct you can get a test at your Veterinary clinic done by request, the cost of it varies depending on the type of test you want done.  Your $10,000 one is for a Chromosomal DNA test, which is just a super awesomely detailed test of everything about the genetics in your dog/wolf, and if you really want to get deep into it you can have a Mitochondrial DNA test conducted for unspecified amounts (Probably won't amount to much considering not a whole lot of Vertebrate Zoologists with a concentration in Canine Mammalia exist to do the research required to advance that field.)  A third point, woldogs do not need acres of living space, they need acres of exercise,  mine gets alot of exercise just running after balls that I throw for it and chasing after me and my other dogs when we run.  The living space can be as small as a 1 bedroom apartment as long as you give it adequate exercise.  If you don't you run it problems such as destructive behavior, claws that are not naturally dulled, so on and so forth.  There are a few more if I really felt like continuing.

In conclusion, it sounds to me that you are just angry because you were misled because you neglected do the proper research beforehand, and I hope that if you got an animal from them that it didn't suffer because of that neglect.  Were you misinformed more than likely, but I doubt that it was purposeful.  They mean well even if they are poorly informed themselves, and from what I have read you refuse to do your research and cling to so many generic misnomers that have circulated.  With that I end this rebuttal and wait for a competent reply from someone who has done the research and experienced them from the owner point of view

Firstly before you start throwing out rebuttals that are not conducive to that advancement of this conversation by claiming that I do not know what I am talking about, I am a wolfdog owner.  I have been for quite sometime having been around them since I was a child.  Your argument does have some truth to it, I agree they are far from a 98% grade wolf hybrid.  They are medium to low content depending on how the genetic were passed, it gets really complicated there and I do not feel like explaining it to someone who's mind is already made up.

There is wolf in them and I do not need a DNA test to prove it.  Behaviorally dogs and wolves are as far apart as a house cat from a bobcat.  It's not a whole lot but it is enough that someone who has done the research and spent copious amounts of time with the animals can make a thorough and educated decision.  Those behaviors are grounded in genetics, a fact proven by Russian scientists when they duplicated the procedure to domesticate animals with the fox (also known as the Silver Fox Experiments or any other numerous names, look it up if you have any questions.).  For example dogs are generally outgoing and welcome attention from most sources.  A wolfdog or a wolf will only accept attention from a source it is familiar with, thus aiding the desire to survive and pass on ones genes.

Physically wolves and dogs have numerous differences, wolves have a working scent gland on their tail as well as most wolfdogs of medium content or higher.  The paws and the mechanical movements of the joints in their tarsals and metatarsals (I defer to the PhD wielding commenter above for actual medical terminology or nomenclature.), and yes some of those differences are also present in felines, vulpine, and even ermine relatives (With that I am referring to the ability to lift ones claws so that they do not contact the ground causing noise disturbances, almost all feral [feral meaning non domesticated] animals exhibit this distinction from their domesticated counterparts that no longer hunt for survival.  Tooth size as well as claw and paw size is another huge indicator, dogs have smaller canine teeth than wolves do with a few exceptions mostly due to size differences.

Cosmetically yes it is possible to create what is known as a fake wolf.  You combine the elements you want from particular breeds until you get the look of a wolf.  Now this process is complicated and having met the people at Wolfhaven Spirit of the Past several times, meaning no offense to them but they do not have the knowhow to do that.

So yes you are correct that they do some things incorrectly, does that make them the worst wolfbreeder yet, no, no it does not.  Do I agree with their breeding practices, no.  Although I do understand why they do it the way they do.  Seeing as how the normal hierarchy of who gets to mate is greatly disrupted from the way it normally would be in nature.  So that they can keep the different hybrid strains separate and not interbred.  Do I agree with the inbreeding, most definitely not, but when you are too poor to get new blood in, it happens.  At this point it bears no genetic diseases but in a few generations that may begin to change.  The only other point you have is that they arm people with false information, and you could place the blame on the owners of wolfhaven, but I prefer to put the blame on people who refuse to do the right thing and research their pet before they get one.

However you are critically wrong on a great many points.  One being that wolves and wolfdogs are not trainable.  They are completely trainable, now is it as easy as a dog most definitely not, wolves and wolfdogs (I'm just going to shorten it to one or the other it is annoying to have to type both each time but you will know that I mean both.) have very strong personalities and are better treated and trained as a friend not as a pet similar to how you would train a police dog.  They can also be stubborn and refuse to do what you ask of them (And before you say "Well you are just a ****-poor trainer" it has nothing to do with how they were trained, you can mold behaviors but you can break them its part of the animal.) because they just don't feel like it and the reward doesn't interest them. 

Another is that these animals are all dog no wolf.  Yes, they can be genetically tested seeing as how there is no specific test for lupine because it is a species of the genus canis, so the statement all lupines are canines but not all canines are lupine applies here.  The PhD above is correct you can get a test at your Veterinary clinic done by request, the cost of it varies depending on the type of test you want done.  Your $10,000 one is for a Chromosomal DNA test, which is just a super awesomely detailed test of everything about the genetics in your dog/wolf, and if you really want to get deep into it you can have a Mitochondrial DNA test conducted for unspecified amounts (Probably won't amount to much considering not a whole lot of Vertebrate Zoologists with a concentration in Canine Mammalia exist to do the research required to advance that field.)  A third point, woldogs do not need acres of living space, they need acres of exercise,  mine gets alot of exercise just running after balls that I throw for it and chasing after me and my other dogs when we run.  The living space can be as small as a 1 bedroom apartment as long as you give it adequate exercise.  If you don't you run it problems such as destructive behavior, claws that are not naturally dulled, so on and so forth.  There are a few more if I really felt like continuing.

In conclusion, it sounds to me that you are just angry because you were misled because you neglected do the proper research beforehand, and I hope that if you got an animal from them that it didn't suffer because of that neglect.  Were you misinformed more than likely, but I doubt that it was purposeful.  They mean well even if they are poorly informed themselves, and from what I have read you refuse to do your research and cling to so many generic misnomers that have circulated.  With that I end this rebuttal and wait for a competent reply from someone who has done the research and experienced them from the owner point of view

You can't run tests to see if a wolfdog has wolf or not. So even if they are pure dogs (which they are), the tests wouldn't be reliable either way. And yes, you are the general public because your work does not revolve around wolves. Not every scientist gets to use the test. They only use it when they really have to. It's not a common thing.

And surely, since you are educated, you must see the difference in wolves and those dogs on the site.. If someone had an animal from wolfhaven and told you it was a husky, would that be believable? YES. Now if someone walked up to you with a pure wolf and told you it was a husky, would you believe them? Probably not.. So why do you keep believing those womans' lies..? 

Did You miss the PhD above? Its in Biochemistry, BTW. Being an MD doesn't hurt either. I simply run my own tests, but, if you're right. the canine test would be fine since you say that they are dogs anyway.

You ARE the general public. Unless you are a biologist and HAVE to run a test for an important study, you cannot get your hands on the test. NO, the $60 ones at the store do not work for wolf blood, nor are they even very accurate when it comes to dog breeds! Just the fact that you mentioned that shows your lack of knowledge.

The "girls" of Wolfhaven can press charges all they want, they're the ones that were nearly sued for lying and scamming people! And me? I have nothing to hide, therefore fear nothing because I know for a fact I am right. Get the police involved, I beg you. I won't be the one walking to jail, I can guarantee that.

And these are not just opinions from anyone. These are FACTS from people who have worked with REAL wolfdogs and wolves for many years, including people who run wolfdog sanctuaries and have gone to court to testify if a wolfdog really had wolf or not, and if so, how much wolf, just by looking at them! THOSE people are the ones calling BS to Wolfhaven, not random people!!

Wolfhaven admits to selling pures, and on their site they state "we only call them 98% because of Fish and Game, but if you know anything about wolves you will know 98 is close to the real thing". Well then, look up a pure wolf and compare their animals! They're claiming they have pures aren't they?!

This can teach you a thing or two:
http://realwolfdogs.tumblr.com/

Real "98%" wolfdog breeders (and PLEASE COMPARE them to Wolfhaven):
http://www.thewolfcrossing.org/
http://thornlandwolfdogs.zoomshare.com/
www.freewebs.com/winddancerwolves/

First, I am not the general public.  I have and MD and PhD and I can run any DNA test I want. Let me discuss a couple of facts:
1 The general public can test lupine/canine DNA for ~$60.
2. While we're on the topic of idiotic opinions, opinions are simply what you are presenting.  I would bet my life on the fact that you have no proof that Wolfhaven animals are dogs. (If the DNA test costs $10000, how could you?) It is insulting that you make these baseless claims. 
In short, you should not present your opinions as facts.  That is misrepresentation, and is illegal. If the girls of Wolfhaven do not press slander charges, I will. I suggest you remove all of your comments from this site.

First of all, there is NO DNA testing for wolf blood for the general public. The real ones used by biologists are $10,000. And the reason your "wolf" does what you say is because it's a dog! Wolves are trainable (any animal can be-- look at the circus animals), but not like dogs. 

I'm sorry, but you have to be the most stupid person on the planet. You have NO idea what you are talking about. And, thus, might should keep your mouth shut about things that uou know nothing about. I have two wolves(and yes they are wolves, I have DNA) Can't train them. BS, mine are still babies and they do what I say whan I say and are happy to do it. They are one of the joys of my life.  You are simply an idiot who knows nothing about animals, period. Also, you lie about the cost. It's NOT 1500 per cub. You are a liar.

Below is pictures of Wolf Haven Spirit of the Past's dogs. Look at how skinny their dogs are! And look at how dirty the environment they live in is. Also, check out the tan and black dog they are claiming to be 98% wolf!

Wolf haven spirit of the past is one of the worst "wolf" breeders yet. They sell 98% wolves (who are purely dog) for over $1,500 to the public.

They think that wolves are feline, and that they come from mountain lions. They constantly contradict themselves and are filling people with lies. Worst part is, people believe them.

Here are some quotes from their website:

"The government has reported that 2008 there are only 52 Mexican Gray Wolves remaining in the wild and at government facilities. We are trying to change this."

If the government really did report such things, why would they choose bad breeders like them to be apart of this "mission". Also, if you were rescuing real wolves, you would release them in the wild, not sell them to people who don't know a thing about wolves.

And if this was true, they would have proper containment, and they would have real wolves, not Siberian husky or malamute mixes.

"All of these wolves are: Hypo-Allergenic Can be very good with kids and people Very protective Needs to be with people and needs companionship with you and your family"

Wolves aren't hypo-allergenic, they are not good with kids and people, and they are not protective; at all.

"The wolf is the lion of the North. They are called that because they are descendants from the same lineage as lions."

Wolves are lions? I guess because wolves have pointy ears, a lot of fur, a tail and eyes that means that they are related.

"Easily trainable, very protective, very quiet, very clean, and NO BODY ODORS!"

I think most people know that wolves, even wolfdogs, are not trainable.

Wolves are not protective at all, they are very, very shy and would rather hide under the bed when someone robs you than help you. That is a known fact among wolf biologists. And I'm sorry but every dog/wolf will smell once in awhile.

"So you can have a wolf anywhere that you are, they easily adapt to any living situation"

Wolves do not easily adapt to any living situation, they need acres and acres of land to be free and be fine. They aren't suitable for apartments/trailers etc., like they stated.

"They make good pets for even truck drivers! We have sold a lot to truckers and have never had any complaints."

They would not be suited in a truck their whole lives. Wolves can get so stressed in a car that they will vomit. If there were no complaints, that's because those truck drivers kept dogs in the trucks, and dogs are much more adaptable than wolves.

And this is just SOME of the nonsense that they state.

Also, the dogs they have are bred every single year. Every single year. .They don't have a break. They pump out puppies like its candy.

They are estimated to having dozens of litters a year, and a lot of puppies. They don't run health tests, they inbreed on regular basis etc.

They have a three-year-old female that's been bred three times.
A four year old female bred four times.
A male bred twelve times.
A one year old male bred twice.
A two year old female bred three times.

This company advertises 98 percent wolfdogs for sale. There is no wolf in them. They are a mixture of northern dog breeds. They charge $800 for these mutts plus another $800 for delivery.

Many reputable shelters or breeders will warn you to stay away from them. Do your research and don't be fooled by a mix of dog breeds if it is a wolfdog you desire. They are one of the worst offenders of lies and scams.

Stay far, far away from Wolf Haven Spirit of the Past. They grossly misrepresent their animals.

They claim to have wolves/98% wolfdogs, but their animals are nothing more then poorly bred/inbred husky, malamutes, German Shepherds, and who knows what else (definitely NOT wolf).

They also claim very much false (and very illegal) heritage- Mexican Grey Wolves.

These animals are so endangered that someone (a private individual) that is able to get their hands on a real Mexican Grey for any reason, is not only commiting a federal crime, but why on earth would someone want to breed a critcally endangered species to produce cross bred dog mutts?

That is an incredible lie on it's own, one that I am horrified so many of their buyers believe.

There have been many different sanctuaries and very reputable wolf/wolfdog people that have tried to talk to these ladies, but they refuse to be educated. Any wolfdog phenotyper can see right through these ladies, but sadly most of the public cannot.

Wolf Haven Spirit of the Past is a puppy mill, and if you really want real wolves/wolfdogs, do your research by reading EDUCATIONAL wolfdog misrepresentation sites, and you won't be disappointed.

Google "wolfdog education" for more information, and texx wolf tails is a VERY helpful site. There you can see many many comparisons of real wolfdogs with fakes.

Remember, 90% of "wolfdogs" in America are misrepresented. Are YOU the 90%? Find out at texx wolf tails (google it).

Wolf haven spirit of the past is one of the worst "wolf" breeders yet. They sell 98% wolves (who are purely dog) for over $1,500 to the public.

They think that wolves are feline, and that they come from mountain lions. They constantly contradict themselves and are filling people with lies. Worst part is, people believe them.

Here are some quotes from their website:

"The government has reported that 2008 there are only 52 Mexican Gray Wolves remaining in the wild and at government facilities. We are trying to change this."

If the government really did report such things, why would they choose bad breeders like them to be apart of this "mission". Also, if you were rescuing real wolves, you would release them in the wild, not sell them to people who don't know a thing about wolves.

And if this was true, they would have proper containment, and they would have real wolves, not Siberian husky or malamute mixes.

"All of these wolves are: Hypo-Allergenic Can be very good with kids and people Very protective Needs to be with people and needs companionship with you and your family"

Wolves aren't hypo-allergenic, they are not good with kids and people, and they are not protective; at all.

"The wolf is the lion of the North. They are called that because they are descendants from the same lineage as lions."

Wolves are lions? I guess because wolves have pointy ears, a lot of fur, a tail and eyes that means that they are related.

"Easily trainable, very protective, very quiet, very clean, and NO BODY ODORS!"

I think most people know that wolves, even wolfdogs, are not trainable.

Wolves are not protective at all, they are very, very shy and would rather hide under the bed when someone robs you than help you. That is a known fact among wolf biologists.

And I'm sorry but every dog/wolf will smell once in awhile.

"So you can have a wolf anywhere that you are, they easily adapt to any living situation"

Wolves do not easily adapt to any living situation, they need acres and acres of land to be free and be fine. They aren't suitable for apartments/trailers etc., like they stated.

"They make good pets for even truck drivers! We have sold a lot to truckers and have never had any complaints."

They would not be suited in a truck their whole lives. Wolves can get so stressed in a car that they will vomit. If there were no complaints, that's because those truck drivers kept dogs in the trucks, and dogs are much more adaptable than wolves.

This is just SOME of the nonsense that they state.

Also, the dogs they have are bred every single year. Every single year. .They don't have a break. They pump out puppies like its candy.

They are estimated to having dozens of litters a year, and a lot of puppies. They don't run health tests, they inbreed on regular basis etc.

They have a three-year-old female that's been bred three times.
A four year old female bred four times.
A male bred twelve times.
A one year old male bred twice.
A two year old female bred three times.

This company advertises 98 percent wolfdogs for sale. There is no wolf in them. They are a mixture of northern dog breeds.

They charge $800 for these mutts plus another $800 for delivery. Many reputable shelters or breeders will warn you to stay away from them.

Do your research and don't be fooled by a mix of dog breeds if it is a wolfdog you desire. They are one of the worst offenders of lies and scams.

Stay far, far away from Wolf Haven Spirit of the Past. They grossly misrepresent their animals.

They claim to have wolves/98% wolfdogs, but their animals are nothing more then poorly bred/inbred husky, malamutes, German Shepherds, and who knows what else (definitely NOT wolf).

They also claim very much false (and very illegal) heritage- Mexican Grey Wolves.

These animals are so endangered that someone (a private individual) that is able to get their hands on a real Mexican Grey for any reason, is not only commiting a federal crime, but why on earth would someone want to breed a critcally endangered species to produce cross bred dog mutts?

That is an incredible lie on it's own, one that I am horrified so many of their buyers believe.

There have been many different sanctuaries and very reputable wolf/wolfdog people that have tried to talk to these ladies, but they refuse to be educated. Any wolfdog phenotyper can see right through these ladies, but sadly most of the public cannot.

Wolf Haven Spirit of the Past is a puppy mill, and if you really want real wolves/wolfdogs, do your research by reading EDUCATIONAL wolfdog misrepresentation sites, and you won't be disappointed.